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(YouTube)   Al Qaeda spokesman to Muslims wanting to attack in the US: go to a gun show and buy an assault rifle. There are no background checks. Oh, and the video was uploaded in 2011 - well before Sandy Hook   (youtube.com) divider line 498
    More: Sick, al-Qaeda, Gadahn, Muslims, American Terrorist, Sandy Hook, exclamation points, assault rifles  
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3362 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Apr 2013 at 11:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 12:46:03 PM

heavymetal: Nabb1: I know there's this idea that gun shows are some sort of arms exchange free-for-all, but a lot of them are organized and run by licensed gun dealers, who actually do background checks. Private sellers are usually in the minority and even then they sell more accessories and other stuff than actual guns, especially assault rifles and the like.

I often hear this so it makes me wonder if it is true, then why the objection to closing what is popularly referred to as the "gun show loophole".  Seriously.  From what I hear from the pro-gun side is that through similar reasoning as stated above, even at gun shows purchases have background checks by default.

Well if that is true, then passing a law eliminating what is popularly referred to as the "gun show loophole" would not cause any added hassle at gun shows and would not be noticed by the gun buying public.  So why not then support it as a way to appease the gun control crowd and give lip service to gun safety for political brownie points?


The only issue I really had with the "universal background" check bill is that it didn't allow for any of the state issued permits to be a substitution for getting a background check upon purchase of every weapon.

I already had to pass 2 GBI (state level) and a FBI background check to get my firearms permit which has to be renewed every 5 years and can be revoked at any time if conditions change that disqualify me to have it, so why should I have to waste an hour of my time and govt. resources to get checked every time I want a new piece for my collection? Also when I sell to a private individual I personally won't do so unless I can make a copy of their permit for my records so I can prove I knew they were eligible to own the firearm and if it shows up at a crime scene I can absolve my self of liabilities as being the first registered owner.

If the feds were serious about getting private sales checked and not just stirring up political bullshiat, they would make the background system available to private sellers and make it run efficiently so that people could use it voluntarily while the requirement to use it by law is fought in DC.
 
2013-04-24 12:47:09 PM

Tommy Moo: I will not stop arguing on the internet until we have successfully formed a cultural link between Islam and the right wing. I'm sick to death of seeing liberals stick up for these clowns. It's just jaw dropping. From now on, whenever someone says "Muslim" or "Islam," I want everyone to think of misogynist, theocratic, red-necked, sanctimonious, judgmental, homophobic, gun-toting hicks. There is literally no difference ideologically between Muslims and extreme right winged republicans. Yet it's always the liberals who jump to their defense and talk about how we "shouldn't lump them all together," as if the ones who aren't terrorists are somehow okay.


Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same way about Christianity?
 
2013-04-24 12:47:49 PM

Hydra: BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR PRESSURE COOKERS!!


How about this, I will not infringe in your right to have pressure cookers, you can have as many as you want, but since you are obviously too stupid to own any weapons, we will take those. Deal?
 
2013-04-24 12:47:50 PM

FlashHarry: shaken_not_stirred: As I understand it, Islam is not a race.

so... what do we call somebody who is virulently anti-islam?


Anti-Islam works. You can call me anti-Islam.
 
2013-04-24 12:47:50 PM

Nabb1: I know there's this idea that gun shows are some sort of arms exchange free-for-all, but a lot of them are organized and run by licensed gun dealers, who actually do background checks. Private sellers are usually in the minority and even then they sell more accessories and other stuff than actual guns, especially assault rifles and the like.


therefore we shouldn't do anything about it!

right?
 
2013-04-24 12:47:51 PM

Skyd1v: madgonad: doglover: madgonad: all about the caliber and not the presence of select-fire.


so my bolt action .223 is an assault rifle?

lolque.jpg
 
2013-04-24 12:48:32 PM
Now if only they said which state.  A lot of the stated do have background checks in the gunshow.  Just not Tehnaysay
 
2013-04-24 12:49:12 PM
*sigh*  It previewed as "States" and still said states until after I submitted
 
2013-04-24 12:50:05 PM

GoldSpider: JohnnyCanuck: The problem with dumbass arguements like this is that a pressure cooker has a well-stated purpose outside of bomb-making.
Let me guess...you use your gun to crack open walnuts?

A gun can be used to intentionally hurt people.
A pressure cooker can be used to intentionally hurt people.

Would-be perpetrators of violence don't really care what an object's manufactured purpose is.


A pressure cooker can be used to cook...using pressure, I assume.
A gun can be used to...ummm...kill things...and umm...pretend to kill things....and ummm...open walnuts.

You see the difference there, Cletus?
 
2013-04-24 12:50:26 PM

Aarontology: I'm not worried about this, and you know why?

The folks who go to gun shows would never in a million years sell a gun to a guy who looked muslim-y.


Would you say the older Tsarnaev brother looked too Muslim-y to buy a gun? The guy could pass for Italian or Greek. If he didn't even have to provide his name, there's no way anyone would know it wasn't Mike Mancini or Joe Kardapolis.
 
2013-04-24 12:51:11 PM

JohnnyCanuck: A gun can be used to...ummm...kill things...and umm...pretend to kill things....and ummm...open walnuts.


I can use the blast from my .50 BMG to clear the table, too.  So cleaning goes on the list.
 
2013-04-24 12:51:13 PM

Aarontology: I'm not worried about this, and you know why?

The folks who go to gun shows would never in a million years sell a gun to a guy who looked muslim-y.


Ha ha, that's a good one. Now pull the other one, please.

But seriously, I assume the solution is more guns. Carry on, you crazy bastards.
 
2013-04-24 12:51:28 PM

GoldSpider: JohnnyCanuck: The problem with dumbass arguements like this is that a pressure cooker has a well-stated purpose outside of bomb-making.
Let me guess...you use your gun to crack open walnuts?

A gun can be used to intentionally hurt people.
A pressure cooker can be used to intentionally hurt people.

Would-be perpetrators of violence don't really care what an object's manufactured purpose is.


I'd also add that hurting or even killing people isn't inherently illegal or immoral. People tend to forget that part.

Target shooting is legal, hunting is legal, shooting a rapist is legal. Guns are good at all of these things.
 
2013-04-24 12:51:45 PM

corn-bread: Many of you are assuming that:
1) The prospective terrorist has a Muslim appearance; and / or
2) The prospective terrorist would approach the sellers directly rather than use a straw buyer.


Which is already illegal and not a damned bit of knee-jerk gun control laws you pass can do anything about it.
 
2013-04-24 12:51:49 PM

Treygreen13: So how are you going to enforce a background check for private face-to-face dealings?


I would say virtually impossible. The only way I can imagine is to have an enormous penalty if the firearm can be traced to you and you don't have record of having performed a check on the person to whom you sold it. Thus the onus is on the seller to be absolutely certain they've done due diligence and recorded the sale. If the firearm you sold is found used in a crime and it has not been formally transferred with a background check, you get a ass-whoopin'.

That will require a registry that will tie people to the serial numbers. Not sure that'll fly.
 
2013-04-24 12:52:49 PM
Nabb1:
Aarontology: I'm not worried about this, and you know why?

The folks who go to gun shows would never in a million years sell a gun to a guy who looked muslim-y.

You mean the guy with all the Third Reich paraphernalia for sale because of its "historical value" might not want to sell his stuff to brown folks?


Fun fact, the Nazis got along okay (in the short term) with Muslim leaders who didn't like Jews either.  Of course, knowing that would require the ability to read words of more than one syllable, which I expect your average white supremacist is still struggling with.
 
2013-04-24 12:53:37 PM

2wolves: Nabb1: I know there's this idea that gun shows are some sort of arms exchange free-for-all, but a lot of them are organized and run by licensed gun dealers, who actually do background checks. Private sellers are usually in the minority and even then they sell more accessories and other stuff than actual guns, especially assault rifles and the like.

Citation please.


That notorious gun grabber Jeb Bush had me on a list of some sort at one point and I couldn't buy a gun from anyone. No one in the state of Florida at any level seem to be able to tell me why.
A helpful vendor at a gun show supplied me with the paperwork I needed to get .myself off this list.
To this day when I try to purchase try to purchase a gun my background check comes back as provisional. This means I can take the gun home with me with the proviso that the vendor can come to my house and take the gun away if my background check comes back negative.
 
2013-04-24 12:55:34 PM

madgonad: CapeFearCadaver: jaylectricity: [i377.photobucket.com image 520x465]

That is a PS, right?

No. It was put up by a pro-gun control group - kind of like trolling the general public.

Yes, it is inflammatory
Yes, it is technically accurate. Only FFLs are required to do anything when selling a firearm. If I sold one of my ARs to you I would have no duty to ask you for any ID or to have you pass a background check. A lot of guns are sold by non-licensed private sellers at gun shows.



Not entirely true. You may still be required to see ID to prove that the individual is a resident of your state. See your own state laws just to be safe.
 
2013-04-24 12:55:38 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: 2wolves: Nabb1: I know there's this idea that gun shows are some sort of arms exchange free-for-all, but a lot of them are organized and run by licensed gun dealers, who actually do background checks. Private sellers are usually in the minority and even then they sell more accessories and other stuff than actual guns, especially assault rifles and the like.

Citation please.

This has been my experience at The Nation's Gunshow in the Northern Virgina. Nearly all the real shootin' iron I've seen there is sold by dealers. Some exotic or relic firearms (like WWI or WWII firearms) is sold by private sellers, and as he said, most of the private sellers are peddling accessories and What Not. You have to rent a table to sell your stuff there. If you're just selling one or two common items, I can't imagine it's worth the expense to sell at a show.


That is what craigslist is for.
I can't tell you how many times people have offered "things that go boom" in trade for the stuff I put up there.
 
2013-04-24 12:56:51 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: This has been my experience at The Nation's Gunshow in the Northern Virgina. Nearly all the real shootin' iron I've seen there is sold by dealers. Some exotic or relic firearms (like WWI or WWII firearms) is sold by private sellers, and as he said, most of the private sellers are peddling accessories and What Not. You have to rent a table to sell your stuff there. If you're just selling one or two common items, I can't imagine it's worth the expense to sell at a show.


You will also get a good ass ramming by the ATF if they think you are buying and selling guns for profit without and FFL. So if your trading a lot on the internet the local dealer that processes the transaction reports those to the ATF and you'll get popped. So you really can't do much private trading off the books unless your a straight up illegal arms dealer, in which case it won't be long before you customers get popped with one your guns and they rat you out to shave years off their sentence.
 
2013-04-24 12:57:13 PM

Nezorf: AngryJailhouseFistfark: 2wolves: Nabb1: I know there's this idea that gun shows are some sort of arms exchange free-for-all, but a lot of them are organized and run by licensed gun dealers, who actually do background checks. Private sellers are usually in the minority and even then they sell more accessories and other stuff than actual guns, especially assault rifles and the like.

Citation please.

This has been my experience at The Nation's Gunshow in the Northern Virgina. Nearly all the real shootin' iron I've seen there is sold by dealers. Some exotic or relic firearms (like WWI or WWII firearms) is sold by private sellers, and as he said, most of the private sellers are peddling accessories and What Not. You have to rent a table to sell your stuff there. If you're just selling one or two common items, I can't imagine it's worth the expense to sell at a show.

That is what craigslist is for.
I can't tell you how many times people have offered "things that go boom" in trade for the stuff I put up there.


I've heard you can purchase/trade all sorts of illegal items on craigslist, is this true?
 
2013-04-24 12:57:13 PM

DrExplosion: GoldSpider: JohnnyCanuck: The problem with dumbass arguements like this is that a pressure cooker has a well-stated purpose outside of bomb-making.
Let me guess...you use your gun to crack open walnuts?

A gun can be used to intentionally hurt people.
A pressure cooker can be used to intentionally hurt people.

Would-be perpetrators of violence don't really care what an object's manufactured purpose is.

I'd also add that hurting or even killing people isn't inherently illegal or immoral. People tend to forget that part.

Target shooting is legal, hunting is legal, shooting a rapist is legal. Guns are good at all of these things.


OK, that's all well and good. But I still dont see why registering it is such a big deal. You are free to take part in those activities. But before doing so you should have to gain that priviledge by proving you're not crazy...and just to be sure we're going to record your serial #s so authorities can inquire if your gun is found at a crime scene.
Any for the record...you do NOT need a fully auto weapon to do any of the things you mentioned.
 
2013-04-24 12:58:11 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: This has been my experience at The Nation's Gunshow in the Northern Virgina. Nearly all the real shootin' iron I've seen there is sold by dealers. Some exotic or relic firearms (like WWI or WWII firearms) is sold by private sellers, and as he said, most of the private sellers are peddling accessories and What Not. You have to rent a table to sell your stuff there. If you're just selling one or two common items, I can't imagine it's worth the expense to sell at a show.


...and the guy with a few guns in his van outside that DIDN'T buy a table? He's not allowed to conduct private business in the parking lot, after meeting a few people inside?
 
2013-04-24 12:58:56 PM

Uncle Pooky: Tatsuma: ... so we should just restrict our rights and freedom because some people might exploit them? Al Qaeda found a loophole, well good for them, but it should have exactly 0% influence on any decisions in the matter. fark them, we're not going to change our way of lives one more iota because of them.

Another way of looking at this is... there is no where else I'd prefer members of Al Qaeda/Al Qaeda supporters to go to than a gun show in the South.


Indeed, the last one I attended had whole big sections full of "Infidel" t-shirts and stuff that was blatantly intended to insult Moslems. You wonder if they'd have the discipline to smile and laugh as they walk past and not launch into a foaming Jihad rage
 
2013-04-24 12:59:00 PM

heavymetal: Nabb1: I know there's this idea that gun shows are some sort of arms exchange free-for-all, but a lot of them are organized and run by licensed gun dealers, who actually do background checks. Private sellers are usually in the minority and even then they sell more accessories and other stuff than actual guns, especially assault rifles and the like.

I often hear this so it makes me wonder if it is true, then why the objection to closing what is popularly referred to as the "gun show loophole".  Seriously.  From what I hear from the pro-gun side is that through similar reasoning as stated above, even at gun shows purchases have background checks by default.

Well if that is true, then passing a law eliminating what is popularly referred to as the "gun show loophole" would not cause any added hassle at gun shows and would not be noticed by the gun buying public.  So why not then support it as a way to appease the gun control crowd and give lip service to gun safety for political brownie points?


That's because it was a poorly written POS that was a registry no matter how much the bill wanted to claim it wasn't.  The information about the sale should not be sent to the government where they will use an intern from the commerce department to store the list or some other BS to get around the rule that the ATF isn't allowed to.  And the check wasn't free either
 
2013-04-24 01:00:25 PM

doglover: madgonad: Buy an assault rifle without ID - yes. Fully automatic - no.

If it's not fully automatic, it's not an assault rifle.

It's like saying "You don't need a driver's license to drive this car." where the car is actually a ten speed Huffy.


That's kind of like comparing a bull to a steer, they are essentially the same animal...sure one is missing some features, but they'll both make hamburger.

/ not against "sporting" rifles, just want more responsibility if one chooses to own one
 
2013-04-24 01:01:04 PM

justtray: weiserfireman: An M-4 is a type of weapon that is commonly called an Assault rifle. If I change the upper receiver and barrel, I can change it to a different caliber. .22LR, 9mm, 7.62mm and on and on. The caliber doesn't change the rifle's appearance or function. Just it's appearance. Each of those rounds can be fired in weapons without the style or appearance of an assault rifle. That doesn't make those weapons assault rifles either.

Assault rifle was a term the military came up with to describe a basic infantry weapon that had a common collection of features. Semi-automatic rifle with full-auto capability, detachable magazine, bayonet lug, flash suppressor. Civilians, who liked the appearance of the military weapons, started buying weapons that looked like military rifles, but weren't, because they lacked the full-auto capability

Sounds like you answered your own question. Any gun that has simply been converted from full auto capability (having that function turned off) is still an assault rifle.

Now where's the confusion?


An assault rifle has a selective fire switch.  It lets you turn the full auto on and off at will.

A civilian version of the same weapon is mechanically different.   It doesn't have the full auto capability at all.   It takes someone who knows what they are doing, and several mechanical parts to change the gun to selective fire capability.

Just possession or manufacturing of the parts, without appropriate licensing, is treated by the ATF, and Federal Law, as the same as having an unregistered machine gun.   Major prison terms are involved.    You can't go to a gun show and "buy a kit"
 
2013-04-24 01:01:11 PM
The NRA loves videos like this - they convince those brave Americans that they need even more guns so those dastardly Muslims can't shoot them in the street. Maybe a gun for every room.

The NRA is happy to show America how much of a problem guns are, because the people who really matter to the NRA (the CEOS of the gun companies) are selling the solution.
 
2013-04-24 01:01:41 PM

special20: madgonad: The dipshiat is only partially correct. Buy an assault rifle without ID - yes. Fully automatic - no.

Some weapons can be converted from semi-automatic to fully-automatic. I hear they sell kits.


It's illegal to even be in possesion of modified parts that could be put into a firearm to make it fully automatic.
 
2013-04-24 01:02:06 PM

mizchief: You still have to get a background check if you buy it from a dealer that is actually part of the show, otherwise good luck getting some random redneck to sell you one if you look Middle eastern.


Aarontology: I'm not worried about this, and you know why?

The folks who go to gun shows would never in a million years sell a gun to a guy who looked muslim-y.


She said Dzhokhar Tsarnaev dressed in sweaters and jeans, fit in easily on campus and spoke English with hardly any accent.
You guys were saying?
 
2013-04-24 01:02:46 PM

ShadowKamui: heavymetal: Nabb1: I know there's this idea that gun shows are some sort of arms exchange free-for-all, but a lot of them are organized and run by licensed gun dealers, who actually do background checks. Private sellers are usually in the minority and even then they sell more accessories and other stuff than actual guns, especially assault rifles and the like.

I often hear this so it makes me wonder if it is true, then why the objection to closing what is popularly referred to as the "gun show loophole".  Seriously.  From what I hear from the pro-gun side is that through similar reasoning as stated above, even at gun shows purchases have background checks by default.

Well if that is true, then passing a law eliminating what is popularly referred to as the "gun show loophole" would not cause any added hassle at gun shows and would not be noticed by the gun buying public.  So why not then support it as a way to appease the gun control crowd and give lip service to gun safety for political brownie points?

That's because it was a poorly written POS that was a registry no matter how much the bill wanted to claim it wasn't.  The information about the sale should not be sent to the government where they will use an intern from the commerce department to store the list or some other BS to get around the rule that the ATF isn't allowed to.  And the check wasn't free either


You would get much more support if you actually focus on who can own guns, and not try to then track what guns they own or limit what guns they can have. I'm fine with the permit approach you pretty have to do to conceal carry anyway. I prove i'm not crazy or a criminal and get the license to buy a firearm, then anytime I want to buy one I show the license and then i'm good to go.
 
2013-04-24 01:03:06 PM

DrExplosion: GoldSpider: JohnnyCanuck: The problem with dumbass arguements like this is that a pressure cooker has a well-stated purpose outside of bomb-making.
Let me guess...you use your gun to crack open walnuts?

A gun can be used to intentionally hurt people.
A pressure cooker can be used to intentionally hurt people.

Would-be perpetrators of violence don't really care what an object's manufactured purpose is.

I'd also add that hurting or even killing people isn't inherently illegal or immoral. People tend to forget that part.

Target shooting is legal, hunting is legal, shooting a rapist is legal. Guns are good at all of these things.


You blew it when you added "inherently". Hurting people and killing people are both inherently illegal.

"Inherent" means "in and of itself" or "pertaining to the basic nature of" something. So just plain shooting someone or punching someone in the face is illegal.

It's only when you add extenuating conditions, such as, "My life was in imminent danger, so I shot the intruder", or "The state of Texas is executing you for the crime of murder", that the killing is not illegal.
 
2013-04-24 01:04:07 PM
man, reading some of these comments from the derpsters makes me look forward to the Second American Revolution.
 
2013-04-24 01:04:41 PM

HAMMERTOE: Nabb1: Such as? I'm fairly certain you actually have to be convicted as a sex offender before you have to register as a sex offender.

And you can't be convicted based solely upon allegation, and without proof?



You're really reaching here. There have been children who aren't even old enough to have learned how to walk ending up on the terrorist watch list. It's an abitrary list of names that has probably been pulled directly from the US census based on anyone who checked the "Muslim" box.
 
2013-04-24 01:05:13 PM

mizchief: so why should I have to waste an hour of my time and govt. resources to get checked every time I want a new piece for my collection?


You shouldn't. We have the technology to make permit verification be accomplished over the Internet in a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
 
2013-04-24 01:05:23 PM

smerfnablin: Ive been to several gun shows in Texas (Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin) and they are all pretty much the same.

You walk into a large convention center with rows and rows of portable tables that have anywhere between 80 to 240 vendors.

1. As previously stated some of these vendors are licensed gun dealers who will make you fill out a NCIC form and phone it in right there on their cellphone. This would be the same type of transaction as walking into a gunstore and purchasing a firearm over the counter.

2. Some of these dealers are selling ammunition and accessories that do not require any of these forms.

3. There are a lot of arts and crafts vendors selling everything from knives made out of deer antlers to table lamps.

4. And then there are "private dealers" who will sell you a few used firearm face to face without a background check or any paperwork. The items are usually very over priced plus these types of individuals are few and far between. These are usually the guys that fly all the huge flags over their tables of objectionable message and have very interesting things to say about politics and religion.

Do you think a muslim with a noticeable accent really wants to approach one of these individuals and attempt to purchase a firearm from them?


You forgot the fifty people walking around with signs around their neck listing what they have for sale, or the guys that rent a spot with a few buddies to raise a lot of fast cash, which works well since those used guns with no check will sell for more than the new price. Don't be dishonest just becuase you assume farkers haven't been to a gun show. You can find anything you want at the shows with no paperwork.
 
2013-04-24 01:07:11 PM

youknowme: man, reading some of these comments from the derpsters makes me look forward to the Second American Revolution.


Are the goddamned Brits trying to tax us without proper representation again?
 
2013-04-24 01:07:43 PM

Tommy Moo: I will not stop arguing on the internet until we have successfully formed a cultural link between Islam godbotherers of all stripes and the right wing. I'm sick to death of seeing liberals sane people stick up for these clowns. It's just jaw dropping. From now on, whenever someone says "Baptist" or "Christianity," I want everyone to think of misogynist, theocratic, red-necked, sanctimonious, judgmental, homophobic, gun-toting hicks. There is literally no difference ideologically between Baptists and extreme right winged republicans. Yet it's always the liberals constitutional scholars who jump to their defense and talk about how we "shouldn't lump them all together," as if the ones who aren't terrorists are somehow okay.

 
2013-04-24 01:08:12 PM

frankencj: Nezorf: AngryJailhouseFistfark: 2wolves: Nabb1: I know there's this idea that gun shows are some sort of arms exchange free-for-all, but a lot of them are organized and run by licensed gun dealers, who actually do background checks. Private sellers are usually in the minority and even then they sell more accessories and other stuff than actual guns, especially assault rifles and the like.

Citation please.

This has been my experience at The Nation's Gunshow in the Northern Virgina. Nearly all the real shootin' iron I've seen there is sold by dealers. Some exotic or relic firearms (like WWI or WWII firearms) is sold by private sellers, and as he said, most of the private sellers are peddling accessories and What Not. You have to rent a table to sell your stuff there. If you're just selling one or two common items, I can't imagine it's worth the expense to sell at a show.

That is what craigslist is for.
I can't tell you how many times people have offered "things that go boom" in trade for the stuff I put up there.

I've heard you can purchase/trade all sorts of illegal items on craigslist, is this true?


No, it isn't. Someone may offer you some Forbidden Item in trade for what you're selling, as the previous poster suggests, but then you're waiting for him to show up. Posting a chain saw for sale on the hope that of the buyers who contact you, one is offering a weapon instead of cash. CraigsList quit allowing the sale of firearms a long while ago. Sure, you can take one in payment, but you can't list your item for sale that way.
 
2013-04-24 01:09:20 PM

Mimic_Octopus: you are a puppet: Treygreen13: you are a puppet: Tatsuma: ... so we should just restrict our rights and freedom because some people might exploit them? Al Qaeda found a loophole, well good for them, but it should have exactly 0% influence on any decisions in the matter. fark them, we're not going to change our way of lives one more iota because of them.

Having background checks doesn't change "our way of lives"

So how are you going to enforce a background check for private face-to-face dealings?

How do you enforce one friend selling sex to another friend privately?

i shouldnt ask, but have you ever seen a serial number on a pussy?



The serial number on a firearm is completely useless unless it is listed in a database along with the name of the owner. Contrary to what most Americans believe, a gun could be found at the scene of a crime with it's serial number intact and that means nothing. There isn't some hyper-advanced computer system like on CSI that holds all knowledge in the universe. There are actually laws against creating a database that would allow law enforcement to instantly tie a firearm to the owner.
 
2013-04-24 01:12:06 PM
frankencj:I've heard you can purchase/trade all sorts of illegal items on craigslist, is this true?

Not guns.  The Craigslist community will flag ads selling guns very quickly and they will disappear.

/paintball guns included
 
2013-04-24 01:12:15 PM

JohnnyCanuck: OK, that's all well and good. But I still dont see why registering it is such a big deal. You are free to take part in those activities. But before doing so you should have to gain that priviledge by proving you're not crazy...


Because it's an exercise in futility. Ted Bundy killed more than 30 women using little more than his bare hands or an iron rod. If supposed victim number 7 or 8 had a gun on her, history might've turned out a little differently, and only police investigators would know who he is as a two-bit serial killer who was killed by one of his would-be victims.

Some people are going to kill other people - there will never be enough laws you can pass that will ever prevent that from happening, and mass/serial murderers will find ever-more creative ways of getting around whatever laws you want to pass to try to stop them or limit their tools available to them. They don't care about the law - they'll break it anyway, and taking away tools from law-abiding people will make the murderers' jobs easier.
 
2013-04-24 01:12:29 PM

weiserfireman: justtray: weiserfireman: An M-4 is a type of weapon that is commonly called an Assault rifle. If I change the upper receiver and barrel, I can change it to a different caliber. .22LR, 9mm, 7.62mm and on and on. The caliber doesn't change the rifle's appearance or function. Just it's appearance. Each of those rounds can be fired in weapons without the style or appearance of an assault rifle. That doesn't make those weapons assault rifles either.

Assault rifle was a term the military came up with to describe a basic infantry weapon that had a common collection of features. Semi-automatic rifle with full-auto capability, detachable magazine, bayonet lug, flash suppressor. Civilians, who liked the appearance of the military weapons, started buying weapons that looked like military rifles, but weren't, because they lacked the full-auto capability

Sounds like you answered your own question. Any gun that has simply been converted from full auto capability (having that function turned off) is still an assault rifle.

Now where's the confusion?

An assault rifle has a selective fire switch.  It lets you turn the full auto on and off at will.

A civilian version of the same weapon is mechanically different.   It doesn't have the full auto capability at all.   It takes someone who knows what they are doing, and several mechanical parts to change the gun to selective fire capability.

Just possession or manufacturing of the parts, without appropriate licensing, is treated by the ATF, and Federal Law, as the same as having an unregistered machine gun.   Major prison terms are involved.    You can't go to a gun show and "buy a kit"


So, now, I've changed the definition from selective fire to any gun that previously had selective fire.

Again, I ask, where's the confusion?
 
2013-04-24 01:13:25 PM

numbquil: Mimic_Octopus: you are a puppet: Treygreen13: you are a puppet: Tatsuma: ... so we should just restrict our rights and freedom because some people might exploit them? Al Qaeda found a loophole, well good for them, but it should have exactly 0% influence on any decisions in the matter. fark them, we're not going to change our way of lives one more iota because of them.

Having background checks doesn't change "our way of lives"

So how are you going to enforce a background check for private face-to-face dealings?

How do you enforce one friend selling sex to another friend privately?

i shouldnt ask, but have you ever seen a serial number on a pussy?


The serial number on a firearm is completely useless unless it is listed in a database along with the name of the owner. Contrary to what most Americans believe, a gun could be found at the scene of a crime with it's serial number intact and that means nothing. There isn't some hyper-advanced computer system like on CSI that holds all knowledge in the universe. There are actually laws against creating a database that would allow law enforcement to instantly tie a firearm to the owner.


Really. So the fact that a law enforcement agency can call the manufacturer, who can name the distributor, who can name the dealer, who can look up the gun and purchaser info in their ATF bound book (or the ATF can do this themselves once the Dealer's records are turned over to the ATF upon closing), means that it's completely useless? Good to know.
 
2013-04-24 01:14:26 PM

numbquil: There are actually laws against creating a database that would allow law enforcement to instantly tie a firearm to the owner.


While this is absolutely true, do you feel that it should be this way?
 
2013-04-24 01:15:27 PM

ox45tallboy: AngryJailhouseFistfark: This has been my experience at The Nation's Gunshow in the Northern Virgina. Nearly all the real shootin' iron I've seen there is sold by dealers. Some exotic or relic firearms (like WWI or WWII firearms) is sold by private sellers, and as he said, most of the private sellers are peddling accessories and What Not. You have to rent a table to sell your stuff there. If you're just selling one or two common items, I can't imagine it's worth the expense to sell at a show.

...and the guy with a few guns in his van outside that DIDN'T buy a table? He's not allowed to conduct private business in the parking lot, after meeting a few people inside?


I suppose that's all subject to the laws of whatever state where that's happening. I'm sure it would piss off the people running the show and they'd call the law on you, though again, not sure just what law may apply. But it's also what some might call TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to the discussion of the the gun shows. What if I meet a guy in the gun show who offers to meet me at his van and sell me meth, or a lemur, or a wet, sloppy, toothless blowjob from his grandma, again, all in the parking lot? Laws pertaining to sales at a gun show really have nothing to do with that either.
 
2013-04-24 01:15:33 PM

numbquil: Mimic_Octopus: you are a puppet: Treygreen13: you are a puppet: Tatsuma: ... so we should just restrict our rights and freedom because some people might exploit them? Al Qaeda found a loophole, well good for them, but it should have exactly 0% influence on any decisions in the matter. fark them, we're not going to change our way of lives one more iota because of them.

Having background checks doesn't change "our way of lives"

So how are you going to enforce a background check for private face-to-face dealings?

How do you enforce one friend selling sex to another friend privately?

i shouldnt ask, but have you ever seen a serial number on a pussy?



The classic film "The Diary of Anne Skank" comes to mind....
 
2013-04-24 01:16:16 PM

FlashHarry: shaken_not_stirred: As I understand it, Islam is not a race.

so... what do we call somebody who is virulently anti-islam?


Well informed.

Why would an islamo-fascist try to buy a gun at a gun show when they can claim to be part of a Mexican cartel and buy them at a discount from the DOJ?
 
2013-04-24 01:16:31 PM

frankencj: justtray: It's really telling/crazy that so many gun nuts think it's their right to sell their guns to their friends without any type of restriction. They don't see the glaringly obvious problem with this.

And how would we enforce it? Easily, with registration. We find a gun not registered to the person holding it, and if it wasn't stolen, the owner is liable for the actions just like the criminal. That will stop straw purchases and private transfers real quick.

Incoming - herp a derpa confiscation mohammed jihad.

Anyway, I'm off to go get blacked out drunk and drive on the freeway, because no one is irresponsible until they actually kill someone. Stop infringing on my right to get drunk and drive. I've never killed anyone before, why are you putting restrictions on MY constitutional right to transportation? Just because I drink from a 'scary' Jim Bean bottle? You're racist.

California did just that.  And.....I would not cry if the 21st amendment were repealed.


You should actually research the SKS situation before you derp some lies.

Show me a source of even one person having their SKS confiscated. Not bought back, but actually confiscated.

The SKS ban only impacted one version of the gun, and only applied to weapons not registered before the ban went into effect in 1992.

This lie gets thrown out so much as an example that I haev this link favorited to clear up this BS.

http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/contracosta/FaxAlerts/sksalert.sht ml
 
2013-04-24 01:16:31 PM

justtray: weiserfireman: justtray: weiserfireman: An M-4 is a type of weapon that is commonly called an Assault rifle. If I change the upper receiver and barrel, I can change it to a different caliber. .22LR, 9mm, 7.62mm and on and on. The caliber doesn't change the rifle's appearance or function. Just it's appearance. Each of those rounds can be fired in weapons without the style or appearance of an assault rifle. That doesn't make those weapons assault rifles either.

Assault rifle was a term the military came up with to describe a basic infantry weapon that had a common collection of features. Semi-automatic rifle with full-auto capability, detachable magazine, bayonet lug, flash suppressor. Civilians, who liked the appearance of the military weapons, started buying weapons that looked like military rifles, but weren't, because they lacked the full-auto capability

Sounds like you answered your own question. Any gun that has simply been converted from full auto capability (having that function turned off) is still an assault rifle.

Now where's the confusion?

An assault rifle has a selective fire switch.  It lets you turn the full auto on and off at will.

A civilian version of the same weapon is mechanically different.   It doesn't have the full auto capability at all.   It takes someone who knows what they are doing, and several mechanical parts to change the gun to selective fire capability.

Just possession or manufacturing of the parts, without appropriate licensing, is treated by the ATF, and Federal Law, as the same as having an unregistered machine gun.   Major prison terms are involved.    You can't go to a gun show and "buy a kit"

So, now, I've changed the definition from selective fire to any gun that previously had selective fire.

Again, I ask, where's the confusion?


Uhm, civilian ARs never had select-fire. They were built with mechanical changes to prevent full auto. They just LOOK like the military version. So, let's stop playing word games and admit it. you are scared by the appearance of the weapon and want to ban the scary thing.
 
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