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(Daily Kos)   Rand Paul thinks killing Americans on American soil using drones is a-okay   (dailykos.com) divider line 101
    More: Followup, Rand Paul, American soil, Americans, Health Care, International, imminent threat  
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1740 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Apr 2013 at 9:55 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 09:25:51 AM  
Takes a drone to know a drone I suppose.
 
2013-04-24 09:26:40 AM  
This is the same guy who performed an actual filibuster when it came to the use of drones overseas.
 
2013-04-24 09:29:07 AM  

Aarontology: This is the same guy who performed an actual filibuster when it came to the use of drones overseas.


After having voted in favor of the NDAA.
 
2013-04-24 09:31:11 AM  

Diogenes: Aarontology: This is the same guy who performed an actual filibuster when it came to the use of drones overseas.

After having voted in favor of the NDAA.


Ah yes, the Paul family method of governance. Raise a big stink, but do exactly what you condemn and your followers will think you have principles.
 
2013-04-24 09:36:17 AM  

Aarontology: Diogenes: Aarontology: This is the same guy who performed an actual filibuster when it came to the use of drones overseas.

After having voted in favor of the NDAA.

Ah yes, the Paul family method of governance. Raise a big stink, but do exactly what you condemn and your followers will think you have principles.


It wasn't a filibuster.  It was an audition.
 
2013-04-24 09:43:43 AM  
Well you can prattle on any subject you choose
And you can bullshiat while everyone tries to snooze
It doesn't matter, just try to get on the news.
It's a Rand-stand
Rand-stand
 
2013-04-24 09:45:03 AM  
Holy shiat, dude, not only is the Filibuster Kid pulling a pretty hard u-turn here, but for robbing a convenience store? Good lord.
 
2013-04-24 09:48:36 AM  
So much for limited government.

Government so small it can kill you from the sky with barely a notice.
 
2013-04-24 09:54:40 AM  
This is not a screen shot of "The Onion"

growlersoftware.com
 
2013-04-24 09:57:51 AM  
Just because you change your mind doesn't mean you are any less principled.
 
2013-04-24 09:57:53 AM  
The CIA got to Rand Paul and put him under mind control.
 
2013-04-24 09:58:37 AM  

impaler: This is not a screen shot of "The Onion"

[growlersoftware.com image 850x448]


A bunch of small government advocates who don't want Big Brother telling you what to do.
 
2013-04-24 09:58:40 AM  
Rand Paul's Hot Tub is the name of my next suburban-based funk cover band.
 
2013-04-24 09:59:12 AM  

hinten: Just because you change your mind doesn't mean you are any less principled.


Hard to have fewer principles when you have none to begin with.
 
2013-04-24 09:59:16 AM  

Diogenes: So much for limited government.

Government so small it can kill you from the sky with barely a notice.



Drones are gettiing smaller, soon no one will know why somebody hit the ground dead.

www.rawstory.com
 
2013-04-24 10:00:41 AM  
Brown-or-Consonantly-Endowed-Americans: You Gonna Get Drone Raped. -Theofascists Masquerading as Libertarians
 
2013-04-24 10:01:08 AM  

hinten: Just because you change your mind doesn't mean you are any less principled.


Well, in Rand's case, he couldn't be, really.
 
2013-04-24 10:01:43 AM  

LasersHurt: Holy shiat, dude, not only is the Filibuster Kid pulling a pretty hard u-turn here, but for robbing a convenience store? Good lord.


People really should have listened to what Jheri Curl said during his filibuster.  He's always been okay using drones to kill terrorists and criminals on American soil.  His whole speech was a logical fallacy to imply Obama wanted to waste his political enemies.  It was pure political theater, and everybody bought into it.
 
2013-04-24 10:03:13 AM  
If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don't care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him

Wow.
 
2013-04-24 10:03:35 AM  

DarnoKonrad: LasersHurt: Holy shiat, dude, not only is the Filibuster Kid pulling a pretty hard u-turn here, but for robbing a convenience store? Good lord.

People really should have listened to what Jheri Curl said during his filibuster.  He's always been okay using drones to kill terrorists and criminals on American soil.  His whole speech was a logical fallacy to imply Obama wanted to waste his political enemies.  It was pure political theater, and everybody bought into it.


To be fair, I didn't believe a word of his filibuster. It was absolutely political theater.

But man, for someone who wove a web of deceit, this was a pretty big rock tossed in the middle.
 
2013-04-24 10:04:46 AM  

hinten: Just because you change your mind doesn't mean you are any less principled.


Generally speaking, true.  But I don't see alot of nuance here.  And the dichotomy of his filibuster vs. domestic use without due process is extreme, to say the least.
 
2013-04-24 10:04:53 AM  
Screw that convenience store robber's right to a trial and due process.  Just rain death on him from the skies!

Rand Paul perfectly illustrates everything wrong with the right wing thought process nowadays.  They get up in arms about government oppression, but only to stoke the absurdly unfounded fears that the democrat boogieman in the white house will some day decide to go on a murderous crusade against political opponents.  When talking about (in their mind) non-"traditional" white folks - such as immigrants, muslims, etc. - they're perfectly fine with an out-of-control government doing flagrantly unconstitutional things like torture, warrantless surveillance, execution without trial, suspending habeas corpus, etc.
 
2013-04-24 10:05:57 AM  

EyeballKid: hinten: Just because you change your mind doesn't mean you are any less principled.

Hard to have fewer principles when you have none to begin with.


It means he is more principled.

As in, he has had more principles.
 
2013-04-24 10:09:17 AM  

EyeballKid: hinten: Just because you change your mind doesn't mean you are any less principled.

Hard to have fewer principles when you have none to begin with.



Nobody wants to admit it, but their principles have a strong basis in the traditional philosophy of groups like the KKK - the foundation of their ideology is the notion that "traditional" white, christian Americans are morally and divinely superior to "inferior" Americans and foreigners.   That's the only way to explain why Rand Paul has no problem with the government doing blatantly unconstitutional things with respect to immigrants, etc., but is terrified by the notion that "Traditional" white Americans may be treated the same way.

In their world, only "traditional" Americans are deserving of such protections and privileges.
 
2013-04-24 10:09:32 AM  

Diogenes: So much for limited government.

Government so small it can kill you from the sky with barely a notice.


And fit in a vagina.

That could make for a  seriously odd Photoshop contest.
 
2013-04-24 10:09:43 AM  
Randal HOWARD Paul was actually OK with killing American citizens with drones all along, as long as they were "probably" guilty. It's right there in the transcript of his filibuster.
 
2013-04-24 10:11:00 AM  

thurstonxhowell: If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don't care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him

Wow.



Apparently he is a champion of due process and constitutional rights, but, on the other hand, also supports giving police Judge Dredd-like powers.

That makes sense.
 
2013-04-24 10:11:30 AM  

Chummer45: Screw that convenience store robber's right to a trial and due process.  Just rain death on him from the skies!

Rand Paul perfectly illustrates everything wrong with the right wing thought process nowadays.  They get up in arms about government oppression, but only to stoke the absurdly unfounded fears that the democrat boogieman in the white house will some day decide to go on a murderous crusade against political opponents.  When talking about (in their mind) non-"traditional" white folks - such as immigrants, muslims, etc. - they're perfectly fine with an out-of-control government doing flagrantly unconstitutional things like torture, warrantless surveillance, execution without trial, suspending habeas corpus, etc.


The Authoritarians
 
2013-04-24 10:12:32 AM  
Rand Paul's filibuster was not meant to be factual.
 
2013-04-24 10:13:30 AM  
I am totally surprised by this.
 
2013-04-24 10:14:57 AM  
killing Americans on American soil using drones

And, when has this happened, exactly? Oh, never? Because it's so farking illegal not even Cheney Rumsfeld Bush Rice would attempt anything even close?

Theoretical Libertarian masturbatory aide.

/yawn
 
2013-04-24 10:15:39 AM  
And here I was thinking he was just pitifully ignorant this whole time? Boy was I wrong. I mean I knew he was self-aggrandizing, but I didn't know he was peddling what he KNEW was BS.

Man I hope that quote of his starts circulating cable news. It probably won't, but... $50 and pistol outside a liquor store equals an on-the-spot death sentence? He may claim not to have literally meant that, in legal terms, but he truly believes that poor liquor-store robber to be the sort of person who needs to be wiped off the face of the earth first in his mind.

I doubt he'd be similarly in favor of using drones to hunt down multi-million-dollar embezzlers. He really believes that the rich have some sort of divine privilege and morality over the poor, doesn't he?
 
2013-04-24 10:16:07 AM  
Help me out here... Why would the government send a drone to deal with an American on American soil and not just... send someone over to get them?  Seems to me that just sending someone over would be a heck of a lot easier and less messy.
 
2013-04-24 10:19:01 AM  

Chummer45: EyeballKid: hinten: Just because you change your mind doesn't mean you are any less principled.

Hard to have fewer principles when you have none to begin with.


Nobody wants to admit it, but their principles have a strong basis in the traditional philosophy of groups like the KKK - the foundation of their ideology is the notion that "traditional" white, christian Americans are morally and divinely superior to "inferior" Americans and foreigners.   That's the only way to explain why Rand Paul has no problem with the government doing blatantly unconstitutional things with respect to immigrants, etc., but is terrified by the notion that "Traditional" white Americans may be treated the same way.

In their world, only "traditional" Americans are deserving of such protections and privileges.


Hahah, we used the same wording! "Morally and divinely superior."

Yeah, I guess I forgot to mention that "$50 liquor store robber" is a pretty strong whistle for "blah/minority criminal".
 
2013-04-24 10:19:15 AM  

HansoSparxx: Help me out here... Why would the government send a drone to deal with an American on American soil and not just... send someone over to get them?  Seems to me that just sending someone over would be a heck of a lot easier and less messy.


Yeah, but a drone killing an American on American soil sends a real message: that we're tough on terror and soft on due process, because due process is for liberal queers.
 
2013-04-24 10:20:05 AM  

HansoSparxx: Help me out here... Why would the government send a drone to deal with an American on American soil and not just... send someone over to get them?  Seems to me that just sending someone over would be a heck of a lot easier and less messy.


Imminent threat.  It's gives the government tremendous latitude.
 
2013-04-24 10:23:32 AM  

Diogenes: HansoSparxx: Help me out here... Why would the government send a drone to deal with an American on American soil and not just... send someone over to get them?  Seems to me that just sending someone over would be a heck of a lot easier and less messy.

Imminent threat.  It's gives the government tremendous latitude.


I'm curious what imminent threat is posed by a robber who took $50 from a liquor store.
 
2013-04-24 10:23:55 AM  
If you are living in the US, you are just as likely to get killed by a hellfire launched from a UAS as a hellfire launched from an Apache helicopter.

Exactly zero percent for both.
 
2013-04-24 10:24:47 AM  

impaler: This is not a screen shot of "The Onion"

[growlersoftware.com image 850x448]


Jesus.  It looks like they took the comment threads from a newspaper and made them into actual news.
 
2013-04-24 10:25:03 AM  

Serious Black: Diogenes: HansoSparxx: Help me out here... Why would the government send a drone to deal with an American on American soil and not just... send someone over to get them?  Seems to me that just sending someone over would be a heck of a lot easier and less messy.

Imminent threat.  It's gives the government tremendous latitude.

I'm curious what imminent threat is posed by a robber who took $50 from a liquor store.


The unraveling of our white christian values by the obviously blah criminal element taking over this country.
 
2013-04-24 10:26:54 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Serious Black: Diogenes: HansoSparxx: Help me out here... Why would the government send a drone to deal with an American on American soil and not just... send someone over to get them?  Seems to me that just sending someone over would be a heck of a lot easier and less messy.

Imminent threat.  It's gives the government tremendous latitude.

I'm curious what imminent threat is posed by a robber who took $50 from a liquor store.

The unraveling of our white christian values by the obviously blah criminal element taking over this country.


Ah, yes, of course. It's those damn blah people ruining everything for the rest of us upstanding Real Americans™.
 
2013-04-24 10:27:28 AM  

Diogenes: HansoSparxx: Help me out here... Why would the government send a drone to deal with an American on American soil and not just... send someone over to get them?  Seems to me that just sending someone over would be a heck of a lot easier and less messy.

Imminent threat.  It's gives the government tremendous latitude.


AKA "you're not likely to find this scenario outside Hollywood"

And think of it this way: Were a commercial airliner to be hijacked and routed toward DC/NY, would you be OK with the government cruise-missiling it?

// according to some, this what "really" happened in Shanksville, PA
 
2013-04-24 10:29:19 AM  

Serious Black: Diogenes: HansoSparxx: Help me out here... Why would the government send a drone to deal with an American on American soil and not just... send someone over to get them?  Seems to me that just sending someone over would be a heck of a lot easier and less messy.

Imminent threat.  It's gives the government tremendous latitude.

I'm curious what imminent threat is posed by a robber who took $50 from a liquor store.


I was talking about the real policy in that statement.  Not Rand Paul's bizarre and possibly masturbatory fantasies.
 
2013-04-24 10:29:41 AM  

thurstonxhowell: If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don't care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him

Wow.


This is a lot worse than being pro-drone.  Even if he said, "only a policeman should be able to shoot a robber after he leaves a liquor store," it would be an astonishing reversal of his small-government libertarian stance.
 
2013-04-24 10:29:48 AM  
"Here's the distinction - I have never argued against any technology being used against having an imminent threat an act of crime going on," Paul said. "If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don't care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him, but it's different if they want to come fly over your hot tub, or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone, and they want to watch your activities."

How desperate are Republicans that they can label this fascist bigot a libertarian?

Enjoy living in your fantasy world where an idiot like Rand Paul comes off as an enlightened statesman.

/Jeebus Farking Christ on Ritz Cracker! Sunnnofabiatch!
 
2013-04-24 10:31:08 AM  
Also, a Hellfire missile costs about as much as a BMW.  Not only would that be stupid and illegal, it's fiscally irresponsible.
 
2013-04-24 10:32:00 AM  
Even assuming that the bank robber did present an "imminent threat" - for instance, he was actively shooting at the police - why would they bother bringing a drone in to shoot a hellfire missile at him?  Just freaking shoot him with a sniper or something.   Firing a missile into an urban area is a bad idea for a huge number of reasons.

It's like Rand Paul is just a complete idiot or something.  Who'da thunk it?
 
2013-04-24 10:32:40 AM  

Serious Black: Diogenes: HansoSparxx: Help me out here... Why would the government send a drone to deal with an American on American soil and not just... send someone over to get them?  Seems to me that just sending someone over would be a heck of a lot easier and less messy.

Imminent threat.  It's gives the government tremendous latitude.

I'm curious what imminent threat is posed by a robber who took $50 from a liquor store.



"If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don't care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him."
 
2013-04-24 10:33:19 AM  

PanicMan: Also, a Hellfire missile costs about as much as a BMW.  Not only would that be stupid and illegal, it's fiscally irresponsible.


If only we could get the government out of the way, the free market would ensure that every missile would be top quality and cheap.
 
2013-04-24 10:33:59 AM  

Aarontology: Ah yes, the Paul family method of governance. Raise a big stink, but do exactly what you condemn and your followers will think you have principles.


No, this is a very consistent principle of the Paul family. That "principle" being that we should return to a pre-WWI isolationist foreign policy.

When it comes to domestic affairs, they very consistently seem to be seeking the Christian* version of Sharia law.

*: note that this has nothing to do with the teachings of the religion globally known as Christianity
 
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