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(Fox News)   Florida lawmakers want to end life-long alimony payments, make alimony and child custody laws more fair. Naturally, some people have more sand than Daytona Beach in their vaginas over this   (foxnews.com) divider line 72
    More: Hero, child custody, Rick Scott, Daytona Beach, lawmakers  
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2681 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Apr 2013 at 10:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-04-24 09:45:21 AM
5 votes:
State Rep. Cynthia Stafford, a Miami Democrat, called the bill "one-sided, anti-woman and mean-spirited."

Biatch please. Try being on the receiving end of family court then come back and complain about something being mean spirited.

My biggest gripe with the whole child support thing is I have been ordered to pay %80 of the financial burden of raising my daughter. Fair enough, I make a ton more than my ex. But I never get a farking tax write off? If I am paying %80 of the burden I want %80 of the deduction. Every other parent in the world gets a tax deduction for their kids. But us guys and gals that do the write thing and pay support get shiat. In the meantime my ex gets over 12k/year out of me and still gets away with claiming the EITC because what I give her is not considered income.
2013-04-24 09:15:34 AM
5 votes:
If you've been married 20 years and gave up most opportunities for a career, I can see long-term alimony.  But being married for 18 months shouldn't entitle anyone to a life-long annuity.  Could be fair if they had a formula linking it to time served.
2013-04-24 10:31:49 AM
4 votes:
I was under the assumption this was already the case in Florida, because of how my parents' divorce went down. My parents were married for about 16 years before that ended. When I came along, my mom gave up being an RN to be a stay-at-home mom while dad, the doctor, worked. He managed to only have to pay alimony for like 3 years. Meanwhile, my mom had to jump from job to job to job - hotel desk staff, secretary for an interior designer, transcriptionist, etc. - to be able to keep the kids fed and with a roof over our head.

Of course, my mom's lawyer was so inept and without the slightest hint of humanity that he tried to convince her to be a stripper if she needed to find a good-paying job because fighting to get alimony (oh yea, and child support, since a man pulling down six-figures would be too burdened to have to pay child support until we all turned 18, according to how the judge ruled) would be a waste of time.
2013-04-24 09:27:00 AM
4 votes:

doyner: If you've been married 20 years and gave up most opportunities for a career, I can see long-term alimony.  But being married for 18 months shouldn't entitle anyone to a life-long annuity.  Could be fair if they had a formula linking it to time served.


This.  I can get that if a woman married you while getting her MRS degree and you get divorced after the kids are raised odds are she's not going to suddenly do really well on the job market.

If you're really that worried in the first few years of marriage that you're coming with disproportionate assets (ie in your 18 months example) you're frankly a complete idiot if you don't get a prenup.  Goes for men AND women.
2013-04-24 09:01:43 AM
4 votes:
I'm confused... The Republicans are on the correct side of a fight. And they're Florida Republicans, to boot.

today.ucla.edu

/I also see that the people complaining about this are largely women... why don't women want to be treated as the equals of men? Or does "equality" mean "we only get the benefits, none of the drawbacks"?
2013-04-24 06:53:07 AM
4 votes:
Family court reform has been severely needed for a long time. It is good to see some action on this issue.
2013-04-24 10:42:11 AM
3 votes:

sammyk: It's worse here. I actually talked the ex into letting me claim my daughter one year. I got audited. Told tough shiat unless I had a court order.


I would wager good money that the reason you got audited is because your ex still claimed the deduction too (even if she told you she wouldn't).  The IRS doesn't care who takes the deduction, so long as only one person takes it.   Two people taking a dependent deduction on the same person will trigger a review.  IRS will pick one of the two, ask that person so prove they are entitled to take the deduction, and if he/she cannot, they're screwed.
2013-04-24 10:38:41 AM
3 votes:

Jim_Callahan: State Rep. Cynthia Stafford, a Miami Democrat, called the bill "one-sided, anti-woman and mean-spirited."

So, which of the provisions are one-sided, anti-woman, or mean-spirited?

-- barring payments from lasting more than half the duration of a marriage
-- benefit caps based on salary
-- equal child custody by default (primarily in no-fault divorce)

... because all of those things sound eminently sensible to the point of "why haven't they always been like that?" to me.

//I mean, it's Fox News, I guess they could be leaving out some significant part of the bill to up the outrage quotient.


Don't you know that expecting women to be accountable and responsible is sexist?
2013-04-24 10:35:58 AM
3 votes:
I have a good friend that is basically getting farked by this same inequity.

Wife starts cheating on him (online) 5 minutes (not literally but close enough) after that finish adopting a child and ~6 years into their marriage.  As the "mom" she gets custody and a huge slice of his paycheck.  He can't get married to his now longtime girlfriend because she also makes decent money and the alimony payment would immediately factor in her income should the two of them get married.

So to summarize: get cheated on, get financially pummeled because you have a penis, and get prevented from getting married again because ... well, hell if know why
2013-04-24 10:33:17 AM
3 votes:
Anti- woman? I find the concept that a woman needs a man to pay for her indefinitely to be be much more anti woman than liked alimony. And including the new spouses income in the equation just seems biatchy to me...
2013-04-24 10:23:34 AM
3 votes:
In other news, they are doing this in Florida:

kpho.images.worldnow.com

Not sure how I feel about this. Your punishment never really ends - you can do public urination and get exposure to a minor if a kid walks by, and if you ever had any kind of violence in your past, you can actually get slapped with a violent sex offender label.  How about we reform this a bit too, eh?:
2013-04-24 09:32:30 AM
3 votes:

doyner: If you've been married 20 years and gave up most opportunities for a career, I can see long-term alimony.  But being married for 18 months shouldn't entitle anyone to a life-long annuity.  Could be fair if they had a formula linking it to time served.


Something like this...?

FTFA

Among the provisions, the legislation would generally bar payments from lasting more than half the duration of a marriage and impose benefit caps based on salary.

 But yeah, I agree that if someone gave up their life to be a homemaker, raise the kids, whatever, and then get traded in for the newer model, they should get fair compensation to try to rebuild their life.
2013-04-24 04:16:04 PM
2 votes:

Willas Tyrell: ragekage: Not farking soon enough. They tried to do this in Virginia, state that a child's best interest was to spend as much time with both parents as possible, and aim for equal time as a starting point and work backwards based on the needs of the kid. Instead, they still let their farking child custody judges apply the Tender Years doctrine. As a result, since I don't have a vagina, I went from having equal time with my little girl to every other weekend and only TWO weeks in the summer. Ignoring her mother TOOK OFF after my daughter was born for six months and left us both alone, and I raised her. The judge even acknowledged that, and said "Little girls need their mothers, or they become delinquents." Of course, it was my own stupid fault for thinking a lawyer was too much money to afford. But fark feminists, fark the child custody system.

I have no idea when your case took place, but the Tender Years doctrine hasn't been valid law in Virginia for thirty years.


It may not be law, but it is widespread practice.

Being a journalist, I've even worked on stories where divorced moms have neglected, abused or murdered their children. Sometimes we get to talk to the dad, and he seems to have it together, so why did she have custody? Because vagina, that's why.

Unrelated: If both parents are law-abiding citizens with jobs and willing to take the kid(s) for half of the time or more, child support should be forfeited regardless of the actual parenting arrangement that is reached.
2013-04-24 02:07:53 PM
2 votes:
My wife quit her job to become a stay-at-home mom. I work 8-9 hours a day for my employer, and she works 8-9 hours a day taking care of the kid and the house. In the evening, we split time more or less evenly.

Because my wife quit her job, she's losing out on years of professional development. If we were to get divorced, she would be at a disadvantage in re-entering the workforce. I was able to advance my career while she agreed with me to quit her job to take care of the kid. In the case of our getting divorced, I feel I should be at least partially responsible for supporting her until she could get back into the workforce. Half the length of the marriage (as talked about in the article) seems like a reasonable metric to me.

I do think that if my wife hadn't quit her job while we were married, she shouldn't be entitled to any alimony, since she hadn't sacrificed her career development. I also completely agree that divorced spouses shouldn't be able to tap into their ex-spouses new spouse's income.
2013-04-24 01:25:56 PM
2 votes:

Aidan: sammyk: My biggest gripe with the whole child support thing is I have been ordered to pay %80 of the financial burden of raising my daughter. Fair enough, I make a ton more than my ex. But I never get a farking tax write off? If I am paying %80 of the burden I want %80 of the deduction. Every other parent in the world gets a tax deduction for their kids. But us guys and gals that do the write thing and pay support get shiat. In the meantime my ex gets over 12k/year out of me and still gets away with claiming the EITC because what I give her is not considered income.

How do you not get the deduction? I think my mom and dad would negotiate over who needed the deduction that particular year when it came up. Mind you, this was 20 years ago, not in this country, and my dad's payments were made directly to my mother and reported on both sets of taxes. They never once touched a court worker's hands, AFAIK.

From what I've heard down here if you tried something like that, you'd be shot, set on fire, and torn into bitty pieces.


Because the IRS rule was changed in 2007 to grant the deduction to the custodial parent automatically unless he or she signs a form to give it up.
2013-04-24 12:46:18 PM
2 votes:
I know a few women who are divorced and get child support. Every one of them blow it on vacations that my husband and I could only dream about.

Only one I give a pass too. Her ex was an abusive dickbag and she does take her kids with her on the trips.
2013-04-24 12:39:12 PM
2 votes:

karmaceutical: My parent's divorce went down in a similar fashion... although in a different state. If you believed everything you read on Fark about divorce, well... you wouldn't have a very comprehensive understanding. For every horror story about some poor schlub getting fleeced by a gold digger... there are 10 where the former wives (mothers to children) get absolutely rail roaded by some ignorant good-old-boy judge. The problem in Florida, is that they want to treat all marriages as the gold-digger variety. So much for personal responsibility right? Rich white guys are being victimized by scheming seductresses... they need the state to step in to help.


I actually agree with this 100%.  It seems like people want to claim the family courts favor women, but they really seem to want to favor the litigious.  if you're the type who wants to get over it and move on with your life, you're going to get absolutely screwed in court-- so lot of nice decent guys get screwed in court at the hands of sociopathic women.  At the same time, a lot of nice decent women get screwed the same way.  And both genders end up feeling like they didn't get a fair shot in court.

There's something seriously wrong when the system favors the people who most want to abuse it.
2013-04-24 12:35:08 PM
2 votes:

Pincy: Actually, I think the lesson should be that before getting married you should be completely honest and open about the expectations for both parties and what arrangements will be made if the marriage ends. Unfortunately, too many people see this honesty as some sort of weakness and won't do it. Yes, marriage is about love, but it is also a legal contract and thus you should enter into it knowing what that contract says.


Yeah dude, getting a pre-nup is just admitting that the marriage going to fail... just like getting car insurance is admitting that you're a bad driver.
2013-04-24 12:33:30 PM
2 votes:

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Dad probably poisoned the well ahead of time. Apparently if you go and meet with every major divorce lawyer in town, some conflict of interest magic happens and they are forbidden from taking your spouse's case - even if you don't hire them. So if you're an asshole, that's always an option.


Some random ambulance chasing lawyer explained this to me once as we were waiting in line at a takeout place (didn't know the guy, he just struck up conversation).  You talk to every nasty lawyer out there and then go hire the one you wanted in the first place.  Now she can't hire any of those people because they've already worked your case and it would violate your attorney-client privilege.  I'm not legally inclined so I have no idea if its true.
2013-04-24 11:17:22 AM
2 votes:
So the lesson I'm taking away from this is don't get married.
2013-04-24 11:12:50 AM
2 votes:
Going though a messy divorce right now, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.
2013-04-24 11:12:37 AM
2 votes:

farker99: Rather than 1/2 the length of the marriage, how about 1.5 times the marriage?

This means the longer you are married and he/she is out of the work force the longer you have to carry them.

Married 1 day, 1.5 days of payments.
Married 1 year, 1.5 years of payments.
Married 20 years, 30 years of payments.

Means being in a long term relationship is long term. During and after.


Too burdensome - half the length is about right.  There has to be some chance of a recovery, but not a forever crutch.
2013-04-24 11:08:57 AM
2 votes:

Talondel: sammyk: It's worse here. I actually talked the ex into letting me claim my daughter one year. I got audited. Told tough shiat unless I had a court order.

I would wager good money that the reason you got audited is because your ex still claimed the deduction too (even if she told you she wouldn't).  The IRS doesn't care who takes the deduction, so long as only one person takes it.   Two people taking a dependent deduction on the same person will trigger a review.  IRS will pick one of the two, ask that person so prove they are entitled to take the deduction, and if he/she cannot, they're screwed.


Pretty much how it happened. Pretty sure that %$#*&%$ did it to hurt me.

/only 3 more years, only 3 more years, only 3 more years
2013-04-24 10:59:48 AM
2 votes:
Those receiving alimony can no longer tap into the paychecks of their ex-spouse's new husband or wife

whoa, this was happening?  If I marry someone who got divorced and is paying alimony, my spouse's divorcee could tap into my paychecks for alimony?  That is farking ridiculous.
2013-04-24 10:42:53 AM
2 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: The Why Not Guy: Those seem like common sense changes for the most part. Maybe it would seem less "one sided and anti woman" if they included (much) harsher penalties for deadbeats who won't pay child support.

If child support is going to be factored into things, it's high time someone starts pushing for Paternity testing at birth, to make sure that some poor bastard isn't paying for another man's child.


Absolutely. We have the technology to prevent that kind of thing from happening. And as a staunch pro-choicer, I also believe a man should be part of the discussion of whether to abort a pregnancy. I believe it's ultimately the woman's decision but if she chooses to have a child when the man wanted to abort, he shouldn't be forced to pay full child support. Pro-choice means taking responsibility for those choices, too.
2013-04-24 10:32:41 AM
2 votes:
State Rep. Cynthia Stafford, a Miami Democrat, called the bill "one-sided, anti-woman and mean-spirited."

So, which of the provisions are one-sided, anti-woman, or mean-spirited?

-- barring payments from lasting more than half the duration of a marriage
-- benefit caps based on salary
-- equal child custody by default (primarily in no-fault divorce)

... because all of those things sound eminently sensible to the point of "why haven't they always been like that?" to me.

//I mean, it's Fox News, I guess they could be leaving out some significant part of the bill to up the outrage quotient.
2013-04-24 10:27:39 AM
2 votes:
Look, if people can get out of prison after serving time for murder, a person shouldn't have to pay for life for marrying that b*tch.

What? Hey! Ow! Stop!
2013-04-24 10:26:37 AM
2 votes:
My dad is stuck paying alimony until my mom is sixty-five, and it's a significant six figures. He currently lives in a podunk apartment, and she moved into a new house with another dude where they live it up on his dime. Fine woman, my mother.
2013-04-24 11:48:27 PM
1 votes:
I was raised by my single dad. He had to mortgage the house a second time to get her to agree to sign away custody -her suggestion. My brother and I won big time in that deal. So no, I do not believe it should always be to the mother.

When both my relationships broke down we worked out what was fair for kids, and then informed court what we had arranged.  I have NEVER had a cent alimony (just child support) from anyone but came out of each relationship worse off. Except my dignity. Any money for the kids goes to the kids - little things like education, medication, glasses, clothing - like it begins to cover that. Yeah, right. No 1 tried so hard to always be part of kids lives - including my second batch of kids. No 2, well, lets just say he is now paying (and that is pretty irregular) for multiple kids by multiple partners. A real set of shocks came out of that... But I give him chances, he just drifts in and out.

Got back together with No 1, and worked out what had gone wrong, and we fixed it. Years of happiness together later, he got bonus kids out of our break, and we both got wisdom. It all works.

So, tl;dr? Parenting should be shared but custody to most likely to be stable parent if one is not stable, no matter the agenda. Alimony should not be automatic, and yes it should be duration based. Marriage and divorce should NEVER be get out of work free cards.
2013-04-24 11:39:49 PM
1 votes:

Tr0mBoNe: What if you never had a carrer and are just a lazy coont?


What if you're a man stupid enough to marry someone like that?
2013-04-24 10:21:47 PM
1 votes:
Alimony should last no longer than 1/2 of the married time, and cap out at 10 years of alimony.  It also should be capped based on a percentage of the income of the individual paying alimony, and should not take into account the income of their new spouse.

Half of the assets plus 10 years to get your life in order is long enough.  Your ex doesn't owe you a permanent meal ticket.

It was originally created because women don't typically work, so if they got divorced they needed income or they starved.  Those days are long over, and people can forge their own way in life without leeching from someone else.
2013-04-24 05:53:56 PM
1 votes:

Teufelaffe: DeaH: If a man has the kids, he should get child support, regardless of the disparity of his and his wife's income. The child's standard of living should not change just because the parents cannot make a go of it.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  Who has to pay child support and how much shouldn't have anything to do with the gender of either parent.  It should be based solely on the income levels of the parents and a reasonable standard of living for the children.


You're half-right. It should be based on the income levels of the parents and the amount of time the children spend with each parent--a "non-custodial" parent who still has the children half the time needs more money in pocket to care for said children, after all. Demanding any "reasonable standard of living" for the children is not a good idea. What if the parents COULD NOT AFFORD a "reasonable standard of living" before the divorce? Who decides on a "reasonable standard of living"? Why should divorced parents be denied equal protection before the law? That is, if they're divorced, they have to adhere to a court's decision for a "reasonable standard of living", but if they live together, they don't. It should be based on income.

Likewise, under a sane system, if a parent who is not "custodial" still has time with the children, and if the "custodial" parent makes a boatload of money more than does the "noncustodial" parent, the "custodial" parent should pay child support. Indiana does this. A case went up to the Indiana Supreme Court. Even though the mother was "custodial", the father had as much time (as in "overnights") with the children as did the mother. They lived close enough to each other that the kids could alternate homes and still attend the same school, etc. The mother made a great deal more than did the father. Unfortunately, due to the wording of the law at the time, the mother could not be assessed child support because the father was not "custodial". She even went so far as to demand the court continue to assess child support from the father. The state Supreme Court ruled that, as the law was then worded, they could not order the mother to pay child support, even though it would have been, in their opinion, in the best interests of the children and according to the spirit of child support in Indiana. However, they did rule that, even though the law as written did require the "non-custodial" parent to pay child support, the law did not specify a minimum amount, so the father was assessed an obligation of $0, weekly. The law did get changed so that this situation would no longer arise. A "custodial" parent in Indiana no longer has privileged status when it comes to child support. It's based on relative income and time with the children.
2013-04-24 04:53:04 PM
1 votes:

Teufelaffe: LiberalWeenie: Unrelated: If both parents are law-abiding citizens with jobs income above a certain level and willing to take the kid(s) for half of the time or more, child support should be forfeited regardless of the actual parenting arrangement that is reached.

If Parent A is living off of investment income and Parent B is working full time at minimum wage, Parent A should probably kick in a bit of money for when the kid is with Parent B.  I only mention that scenario since I've seen it happen.  Worked with a guy who lucked out on the stock market, made a few million and retired at 35...then told the courts that he shouldn't have to pay child support because he was unemployed.


Yeah, I make six figures and the ex makes about 9 bucks an hour. We split custody and I have to pay her child support. In theory I am cool with it. In reality it annoys me that her other kids from other dad see as much benefit as mine from it but I try and just roll with it.
2013-04-24 03:59:13 PM
1 votes:

OgreMagi: Coolfusis: 0-10 years = you get nothing, unless the man abused you (or cheated, IIRC)

That would GUARANTEE a huge increase in claims of abuse.  Or is there going to be some kind of requirement that abuse is proven?


That's how it currently is in Texas, and yes, it absolutely has to be proven. The person alleging the abuse has to have called the police, the abuser been arrested, and the abused pressed charges. Also, yes, as someone mentioned - this is all if they even prove they actually need the alimony. Getting alimony in Texas is like trying to shoot a dime off a fencepost at 1,000 yards. Sure, under the right circumstances, with the right shooter, and with some luck, it can be done. Most people, though? Ha.
2013-04-24 03:03:55 PM
1 votes:

OgreMagi: Which is why the radical feminists would hate it.


Radical feminist wouldn't even get married.  Quit projecting some straw-bogeyman onto what you imagine feminists ( radical or otherwise) to be.
2013-04-24 02:55:35 PM
1 votes:

ragekage: Not farking soon enough. They tried to do this in Virginia, state that a child's best interest was to spend as much time with both parents as possible, and aim for equal time as a starting point and work backwards based on the needs of the kid. Instead, they still let their farking child custody judges apply the Tender Years doctrine. As a result, since I don't have a vagina, I went from having equal time with my little girl to every other weekend and only TWO weeks in the summer. Ignoring her mother TOOK OFF after my daughter was born for six months and left us both alone, and I raised her. The judge even acknowledged that, and said "Little girls need their mothers, or they become delinquents." Of course, it was my own stupid fault for thinking a lawyer was too much money to afford. But fark feminists, fark the child custody system.


This is one of the arguments I hear from MRAs* that absolutely baffles me.  You do realize that the bias toward women in many family courts in the US has absolutely nothing to do with feminists or feminism, right?  It's a throwback to the idea that a woman's place is in the home raising the kids because women are "better" at that sort of thing than men and it's the exact opposite of feminism.

*I don't know if you're an MRA and I'm not saying you are, but they do so love to use the argument that family courts are biased against men because of feminism.
2013-04-24 01:56:46 PM
1 votes:
While Alimony and Family Court reform has been needed for DECADES now, knowing the GOP, especially the Florida GOP, some ass is going to spout off trough his fat jowls that no women deserve Alimony ever and that marriage is a contract by choice and personal responsibility yada yada yada. Which will pretty much piss off anybody with a Vagina and a functioning brain and once again show that the GOP are as misogynistic as they are misanthropic and sociopathic.

Trust me, it's only a matter of time before this happens.
2013-04-24 01:49:04 PM
1 votes:

bofkentucky: FirstNationalBastard: The Why Not Guy: Those seem like common sense changes for the most part. Maybe it would seem less "one sided and anti woman" if they included (much) harsher penalties for deadbeats who won't pay child support.

If child support is going to be factored into things, it's high time someone starts pushing for Paternity testing at birth, to make sure that some poor bastard isn't paying for another man's child.

The state does not have a vested interest in finding the correct father, they have a vested interest in someone footing the bill.  That's why mandatory paternity testing isn't on the books.


Texas has reformed a lot of their laws. Paternity testing is now mandatory before a court can order child support. No more of that, "Well, she wrote your name on the birth certificate. Pay up." bullshiat that used to happen with alarming frequency.
2013-04-24 01:38:49 PM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: The Why Not Guy: Those seem like common sense changes for the most part. Maybe it would seem less "one sided and anti woman" if they included (much) harsher penalties for deadbeats who won't pay child support.

If child support is going to be factored into things, it's high time someone starts pushing for Paternity testing at birth, to make sure that some poor bastard isn't paying for another man's child.


The state does not have a vested interest in finding the correct father, they have a vested interest in someone footing the bill.  That's why mandatory paternity testing isn't on the books.
2013-04-24 12:56:25 PM
1 votes:
Not farking soon enough. They tried to do this in Virginia, state that a child's best interest was to spend as much time with both parents as possible, and aim for equal time as a starting point and work backwards based on the needs of the kid. Instead, they still let their farking child custody judges apply the Tender Years doctrine. As a result, since I don't have a vagina, I went from having equal time with my little girl to every other weekend and only TWO weeks in the summer. Ignoring her mother TOOK OFF after my daughter was born for six months and left us both alone, and I raised her. The judge even acknowledged that, and said "Little girls need their mothers, or they become delinquents." Of course, it was my own stupid fault for thinking a lawyer was too much money to afford. But fark feminists, fark the child custody system.
2013-04-24 12:36:39 PM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: I'm confused... The Republicans are on the correct side of a fight. And they're Florida Republicans, to boot.


Only kinda.  Note that they're wanting to limit alimony payments based as a percentage of  salary not income or general means testing (savings or whatever).

Guess which class has little of their income/wealth coming from salary...
2013-04-24 12:27:28 PM
1 votes:

Kome: I was under the assumption this was already the case in Florida, because of how my parents' divorce went down. My parents were married for about 16 years before that ended. When I came along, my mom gave up being an RN to be a stay-at-home mom while dad, the doctor, worked. He managed to only have to pay alimony for like 3 years. Meanwhile, my mom had to jump from job to job to job - hotel desk staff, secretary for an interior designer, transcriptionist, etc. - to be able to keep the kids fed and with a roof over our head.

Of course, my mom's lawyer was so inept and without the slightest hint of humanity that he tried to convince her to be a stripper if she needed to find a good-paying job because fighting to get alimony (oh yea, and child support, since a man pulling down six-figures would be too burdened to have to pay child support until we all turned 18, according to how the judge ruled) would be a waste of time.


My parent's divorce went down in a similar fashion... although in a different state.  If you believed everything you read on Fark about divorce, well... you wouldn't have a very comprehensive understanding.  For every horror story about some poor schlub getting fleeced by a gold digger... there are 10 where the former wives (mothers to children) get absolutely rail roaded by some ignorant good-old-boy judge.  The problem in Florida, is that they want to treat all marriages as the gold-digger variety.  So much for personal responsibility right?  Rich white guys are being victimized by scheming seductresses... they need the state to step in to help.
2013-04-24 12:03:59 PM
1 votes:
I'm going to refrain from posting my, now deleted, diatribe about coonts having to do the math before going off the rails. I think men need to do the math before proposing.

/Yes, that was a toned down improvement over my original.
2013-04-24 11:51:30 AM
1 votes:

nocturnal001: The biggest thing I see here is that this would need to be phased in to prevent abuse. Now a woman might get married and quit her job under the assumption that if the worst happened she would be able to collect alimony and therefore did not seek a prenup. 3 years alimony is not nearly enough to make up for ditching your career for 10 years. In that case your earning power is basically reset back to zero. Now, if unmarried women there knew that 3 year alimony was the law then more would push for prenups or take more care in ditching their careers.


Ultimately it's the woman's choice to abandon their career. Nobody forced them into it. If I decide to quit my job and become a self-sufficient beet farmer for the next ten years, the most help I'm going to get transitioning back into the workforce is a student loan or government unemployment programs. I just don't understand why decisions made within marriage somehow negate the responsibility of the lower-earning spouse to take any precautions whatsoever to hedge against a fifty percent probability of divorce.
2013-04-24 11:38:51 AM
1 votes:

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MadHatter500: Kome: I was under the assumption this was already the case in Florida, because of how my parents' divorce went down. My parents were married for about 16 years before that ended. When I came along, my mom gave up being an RN to be a stay-at-home mom while dad, the doctor, worked. He managed to only have to pay alimony for like 3 years. Meanwhile, my mom had to jump from job to job to job - hotel desk staff, secretary for an interior designer, transcriptionist, etc. - to be able to keep the kids fed and with a roof over our head.

Of course, my mom's lawyer was so inept and without the slightest hint of humanity that he tried to convince her to be a stripper if she needed to find a good-paying job because fighting to get alimony (oh yea, and child support, since a man pulling down six-figures would be too burdened to have to pay child support until we all turned 18, according to how the judge ruled) would be a waste of time.

She was supposed to get her own lawyer, not talk to dad's.

Dad probably poisoned the well ahead of time. Apparently if you go and meet with every major divorce lawyer in town, some conflict of interest magic happens and they are forbidden from taking your spouse's case - even if you don't hire them. So if you're an asshole, that's always an option.


My dad played that game to stall for time. He purposefully got the son of my mom's lawyer as his lawyer, which was obviously a conflict of interest, so when they went to court it got pushed back to give him time to find a new lawyer and get him prepared. My mom was furious, because she just wanted it to be over.
2013-04-24 11:15:40 AM
1 votes:

MadHatter500: Kome: I was under the assumption this was already the case in Florida, because of how my parents' divorce went down. My parents were married for about 16 years before that ended. When I came along, my mom gave up being an RN to be a stay-at-home mom while dad, the doctor, worked. He managed to only have to pay alimony for like 3 years. Meanwhile, my mom had to jump from job to job to job - hotel desk staff, secretary for an interior designer, transcriptionist, etc. - to be able to keep the kids fed and with a roof over our head.

Of course, my mom's lawyer was so inept and without the slightest hint of humanity that he tried to convince her to be a stripper if she needed to find a good-paying job because fighting to get alimony (oh yea, and child support, since a man pulling down six-figures would be too burdened to have to pay child support until we all turned 18, according to how the judge ruled) would be a waste of time.

She was supposed to get her own lawyer, not talk to dad's.


Dad probably poisoned the well ahead of time. Apparently if you go and meet with every major divorce lawyer in town, some conflict of interest magic happens and they are forbidden from taking your spouse's case - even if you don't hire them. So if you're an asshole, that's always an option.
2013-04-24 11:10:53 AM
1 votes:

Kome: I was under the assumption this was already the case in Florida, because of how my parents' divorce went down. My parents were married for about 16 years before that ended. When I came along, my mom gave up being an RN to be a stay-at-home mom while dad, the doctor, worked. He managed to only have to pay alimony for like 3 years. Meanwhile, my mom had to jump from job to job to job - hotel desk staff, secretary for an interior designer, transcriptionist, etc. - to be able to keep the kids fed and with a roof over our head.

Of course, my mom's lawyer was so inept and without the slightest hint of humanity that he tried to convince her to be a stripper if she needed to find a good-paying job because fighting to get alimony (oh yea, and child support, since a man pulling down six-figures would be too burdened to have to pay child support until we all turned 18, according to how the judge ruled) would be a waste of time.


She was supposed to get her own lawyer, not talk to dad's.
2013-04-24 11:07:15 AM
1 votes:

Aidan: sammyk: It's worse here. I actually talked the ex into letting me claim my daughter one year. I got audited. Told tough shiat unless I had a court order.

Jesus fark. That ain't right.


I know...same thing here.  My ex asked for back child support, settled for 2 grand... we had a personal agreement based on what I made compared to what the state said I should pay.  But in the deal (court entered, thank god), I get to claim my son every other year.
2013-04-24 11:03:11 AM
1 votes:
"Anti-woman," my arse. "Anti-gold-diggers," is more like it.
2013-04-24 11:02:08 AM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: /I also see that the people complaining about this are largely women... why don't women want to be treated as the equals of men? Or does "equality" mean "we only get the benefits, none of the drawbacks"?


I'm going to guess because your country's such a shiathole, they can't rely on all the existing biased power structure giving them equal treatment, and therfore, need some advantage under the law?
2013-04-24 10:58:08 AM
1 votes:
"There is nothing one sided about how divorce court works! everyone is equal!"

"Hey we're going to make some changes to the rules here that will effect both sides of the courtroom"

"No fair! divorce courts are there to help women !"
2013-04-24 10:55:27 AM
1 votes:

Kome: I was under the assumption this was already the case in Florida, because of how my parents' divorce went down. My parents were married for about 16 years before that ended. When I came along, my mom gave up being an RN to be a stay-at-home mom while dad, the doctor, worked. He managed to only have to pay alimony for like 3 years. Meanwhile, my mom had to jump from job to job to job - hotel desk staff, secretary for an interior designer, transcriptionist, etc. - to be able to keep the kids fed and with a roof over our head.

Of course, my mom's lawyer was so inept and without the slightest hint of humanity that he tried to convince her to be a stripper if she needed to find a good-paying job because fighting to get alimony (oh yea, and child support, since a man pulling down six-figures would be too burdened to have to pay child support until we all turned 18, according to how the judge ruled) would be a waste of time.


Sounds like your dad had your moms lawyer in his pocket.
2013-04-24 10:50:36 AM
1 votes:
I'm not a woman, but if I were, there is no way I'd agree to take myself out of the workplace for twenty-plus years of my life just to raise children and leaving myself at the financial mercy of my husband.  I know this is still a dream for some women (and probably some men too), but the risks are just too high.  Or maybe if a woman decides to do that she should get a "pre-nup" first that clarifies what she will get in return if the marriage ends?
2013-04-24 10:44:05 AM
1 votes:
I am against limiting alimony because women are the inferior sex and therefore need to be supported by men.What if she's ugly and can't remarried?How is the woman going to survive?
2013-04-24 10:43:21 AM
1 votes:
Whats a girl to do if she can't move to Florida, marry some rich horndog, divorce him a year later, take half his stuff and then make him pay her the majority of his income for the rest of his life?
2013-04-24 10:42:02 AM
1 votes:
Rather than 1/2 the length of the marriage, how about 1.5 times the marriage?

This means the longer you are married and he/she is out of the work force the longer you have to carry them.

Married 1 day, 1.5 days of payments.
Married 1 year, 1.5 years of payments.
Married 20 years, 30 years of payments.

Means being in a long term relationship is long term. During and after.
2013-04-24 10:38:39 AM
1 votes:

The Why Not Guy: Those seem like common sense changes for the most part. Maybe it would seem less "one sided and anti woman" if they included (much) harsher penalties for deadbeats who won't pay child support.


If child support is going to be factored into things, it's high time someone starts pushing for Paternity testing at birth, to make sure that some poor bastard isn't paying for another man's child.
2013-04-24 10:38:02 AM
1 votes:
In before this turns into an MRA thread.

I definitely agree with limiting the number of years of alimony based on the length of the marriage.  Someone getting a lifetime of payments from a marriage that only lasted a short period of time is just stupid.

/Oh, and any time anyone ever seriously uses the phrase "the manner to which they are accustomed" should get punched right in the babymaker.
2013-04-24 10:34:31 AM
1 votes:
Be careful about who you fark.

Be even more careful about who you marry.
2013-04-24 10:30:53 AM
1 votes:
FTFA

"The average guy with an alimony payment couldn't retire," said Hitner, who is divorced. "And I was getting calls from (soon-to-be) second wives ready to cancel their weddings" out of concern that an ex-wife could cut into their paychecks.

I had been under the impression that if joint filing pushed you into a higher tax bracket you might actually pay  less alimony.  Does anyone know how someone could take alimony from an ex-spouse's new spouse?
2013-04-24 10:29:32 AM
1 votes:

Aidan: sammyk: My biggest gripe with the whole child support thing is I have been ordered to pay %80 of the financial burden of raising my daughter. Fair enough, I make a ton more than my ex. But I never get a farking tax write off? If I am paying %80 of the burden I want %80 of the deduction. Every other parent in the world gets a tax deduction for their kids. But us guys and gals that do the write thing and pay support get shiat. In the meantime my ex gets over 12k/year out of me and still gets away with claiming the EITC because what I give her is not considered income.

How do you not get the deduction? I think my mom and dad would negotiate over who needed the deduction that particular year when it came up. Mind you, this was 20 years ago, not in this country, and my dad's payments were made directly to my mother and reported on both sets of taxes. They never once touched a court worker's hands, AFAIK.

From what I've heard down here if you tried something like that, you'd be shot, set on fire, and torn into bitty pieces.


It's worse here. I actually talked the ex into letting me claim my daughter one year. I got audited. Told tough shiat unless I had a court order.
2013-04-24 10:27:55 AM
1 votes:

doyner: If you've been married 20 years and gave up most opportunities for a career, I can see long-term alimony.  But being married for 18 months shouldn't entitle anyone to a life-long annuity.  Could be fair if they had a formula linking it to time served.


Don't they do that currently? Take into account the length and financial contributions of each in the marriage?
2013-04-24 10:25:29 AM
1 votes:

GF named my left testicle thundercles: Family court reform has been severely needed for a long time. It is good to see some action on this issue.


Eeeeyup.
2013-04-24 10:23:47 AM
1 votes:
Wifely duties should be attached to all alimony payments.

/unfortunately, the very fact the divorce occurs means wifely duties weren't being performed
/amidoinitrite?
/seriously, any legal process should be reviewed from time to time...like forcibly returning escaped slaves or allowing free blacks to be kidnapped and sold into slavery...or women not getting the vote...or not having a court-appointed representative in a criminal trial...
2013-04-24 10:21:43 AM
1 votes:

Uranus Is Huge!: I wholeheartedly agree that lifelong alimony, in modern times, is bullshiat.

And now I'll kick back and listen to some good old fashioned divorce related misogyny.


I see only one post that could be remotely interpreted as misogyny so far.
2013-04-24 10:17:31 AM
1 votes:
This has to be one of the most blatantly sexist headlines I've ever seen on fark. Wow
2013-04-24 10:16:34 AM
1 votes:
I wholeheartedly agree that lifelong alimony, in modern times, is bullshiat.

And now I'll kick back and listen to some good old fashioned divorce related misogyny.
2013-04-24 10:14:42 AM
1 votes:
My mother was always the breadwinner of the two up until my parents divorced, so I'm really getting a kick....
2013-04-24 10:05:27 AM
1 votes:
i.imgur.com
2013-04-24 10:03:23 AM
1 votes:
One sided and anti-woman?

So what you're saying is that alimony payments are also one sided and predominately pro-woman?
2013-04-24 09:38:01 AM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: Something like this...?

FTFA

Among the provisions, the legislation would generally bar payments from lasting more than half the duration of a marriage and impose benefit caps based on salary.

 But yeah, I agree that if someone gave up their life to be a homemaker, raise the kids, whatever, and then get traded in for the newer model, they should get fair compensation to try to rebuild their life.


Not exactly.  I think that if a woman has been married for 25 years and finds herself on the outs hovering around 50 there should probably be no sunset clause (unless she remarries).  At that point its way too late to have kids (responsibly) or to have time to move far up a career ladder.
2013-04-24 08:55:34 AM
1 votes:
This is just another assault in the war on traditional marriage.
 
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