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(Fox News)   Florida lawmakers want to end life-long alimony payments, make alimony and child custody laws more fair. Naturally, some people have more sand than Daytona Beach in their vaginas over this   (foxnews.com) divider line 156
    More: Hero, child custody, Rick Scott, Daytona Beach, lawmakers  
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2681 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Apr 2013 at 10:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 01:03:55 PM

one of Ripley's Bad Guys: Talk to us when you are divorced parent now, not a kid 20 years ago.


Dude, relax. Both Talondel and cartersdad implied that changing who takes the tax credit is still doable down here (although I'm not gonna assume for all 50 states).
 
2013-04-24 01:08:21 PM
Good.    One year of marriage should not get you sixty years of freeloading.
 
2013-04-24 01:25:56 PM

Aidan: sammyk: My biggest gripe with the whole child support thing is I have been ordered to pay %80 of the financial burden of raising my daughter. Fair enough, I make a ton more than my ex. But I never get a farking tax write off? If I am paying %80 of the burden I want %80 of the deduction. Every other parent in the world gets a tax deduction for their kids. But us guys and gals that do the write thing and pay support get shiat. In the meantime my ex gets over 12k/year out of me and still gets away with claiming the EITC because what I give her is not considered income.

How do you not get the deduction? I think my mom and dad would negotiate over who needed the deduction that particular year when it came up. Mind you, this was 20 years ago, not in this country, and my dad's payments were made directly to my mother and reported on both sets of taxes. They never once touched a court worker's hands, AFAIK.

From what I've heard down here if you tried something like that, you'd be shot, set on fire, and torn into bitty pieces.


Because the IRS rule was changed in 2007 to grant the deduction to the custodial parent automatically unless he or she signs a form to give it up.
 
2013-04-24 01:35:03 PM

Oniamien: FTFA

"The average guy with an alimony payment couldn't retire," said Hitner, who is divorced. "And I was getting calls from (soon-to-be) second wives ready to cancel their weddings" out of concern that an ex-wife could cut into their paychecks.

I had been under the impression that if joint filing pushed you into a higher tax bracket you might actually pay  less alimony.  Does anyone know how someone could take alimony from an ex-spouse's new spouse?


While not taking money directly from the new spouse's paycheck, they have raised alimony payments on the guy. My friend had it happen to him, and he's making less than when the divorce happened.

She's (his ex) shacked up with a guy, and they aren't planning on marrying. Why would she? She gets $3k a month from him.
 
2013-04-24 01:36:15 PM

Aidan: one of Ripley's Bad Guys: Talk to us when you are divorced parent now, not a kid 20 years ago.

Dude, relax. Both Talondel and cartersdad implied that changing who takes the tax credit is still doable down here (although I'm not gonna assume for all 50 states).


*bzzzzt*  wrong.

The IRS looks to see who has the kid 6+ months out of the year.  They decide who gets the tax credit, not the court or the state.  Side agreements between parents are of course done.

/ex never made enough to pay taxes, but never gave me the child credit out of spite
/current GF is accountant
 
2013-04-24 01:36:54 PM

cartersdad: Aidan: sammyk: It's worse here. I actually talked the ex into letting me claim my daughter one year. I got audited. Told tough shiat unless I had a court order.

Jesus fark. That ain't right.

I know...same thing here.  My ex asked for back child support, settled for 2 grand... we had a personal agreement based on what I made compared to what the state said I should pay.  But in the deal (court entered, thank god), I get to claim my son every other year.


"Imputed" income sucks, especially in a bad economy.
 
2013-04-24 01:38:49 PM

FirstNationalBastard: The Why Not Guy: Those seem like common sense changes for the most part. Maybe it would seem less "one sided and anti woman" if they included (much) harsher penalties for deadbeats who won't pay child support.

If child support is going to be factored into things, it's high time someone starts pushing for Paternity testing at birth, to make sure that some poor bastard isn't paying for another man's child.


The state does not have a vested interest in finding the correct father, they have a vested interest in someone footing the bill.  That's why mandatory paternity testing isn't on the books.
 
2013-04-24 01:49:04 PM

bofkentucky: FirstNationalBastard: The Why Not Guy: Those seem like common sense changes for the most part. Maybe it would seem less "one sided and anti woman" if they included (much) harsher penalties for deadbeats who won't pay child support.

If child support is going to be factored into things, it's high time someone starts pushing for Paternity testing at birth, to make sure that some poor bastard isn't paying for another man's child.

The state does not have a vested interest in finding the correct father, they have a vested interest in someone footing the bill.  That's why mandatory paternity testing isn't on the books.


Texas has reformed a lot of their laws. Paternity testing is now mandatory before a court can order child support. No more of that, "Well, she wrote your name on the birth certificate. Pay up." bullshiat that used to happen with alarming frequency.
 
2013-04-24 01:56:46 PM
While Alimony and Family Court reform has been needed for DECADES now, knowing the GOP, especially the Florida GOP, some ass is going to spout off trough his fat jowls that no women deserve Alimony ever and that marriage is a contract by choice and personal responsibility yada yada yada. Which will pretty much piss off anybody with a Vagina and a functioning brain and once again show that the GOP are as misogynistic as they are misanthropic and sociopathic.

Trust me, it's only a matter of time before this happens.
 
2013-04-24 02:07:53 PM
My wife quit her job to become a stay-at-home mom. I work 8-9 hours a day for my employer, and she works 8-9 hours a day taking care of the kid and the house. In the evening, we split time more or less evenly.

Because my wife quit her job, she's losing out on years of professional development. If we were to get divorced, she would be at a disadvantage in re-entering the workforce. I was able to advance my career while she agreed with me to quit her job to take care of the kid. In the case of our getting divorced, I feel I should be at least partially responsible for supporting her until she could get back into the workforce. Half the length of the marriage (as talked about in the article) seems like a reasonable metric to me.

I do think that if my wife hadn't quit her job while we were married, she shouldn't be entitled to any alimony, since she hadn't sacrificed her career development. I also completely agree that divorced spouses shouldn't be able to tap into their ex-spouses new spouse's income.
 
2013-04-24 02:21:19 PM
In Minnesota, feminist groups lobbied and killed a bill that would have set a minimum parenting time of 45.1% for each parent unless there was a good reason not to. Drugs, abuse, etc. Child support kicks in at 45% and under.

It seems to me that aside from big issues like that, it's so hard to find the truth in family court that kids might be better served if we didn't bother trying. Families would get on with their lives more quickly and with more money and less anger.
 
2013-04-24 02:42:52 PM

farker99: Rather than 1/2 the length of the marriage, how about 1.5 times the marriage?

This means the longer you are married and he/she is out of the work force the longer you have to carry them.

Married 1 day, 1.5 days of payments.
Married 1 year, 1.5 years of payments.
Married 20 years, 30 years of payments.

Means being in a long term relationship is long term. During and after.


I'd make one change to that.  Married less than a year, zero payments.   Other than that, your numbers are reasonable.  Which is why the radical feminists would hate it.
 
2013-04-24 02:46:06 PM
What if you never had a carrer and are just a lazy coont?
 
2013-04-24 02:47:18 PM

Coolfusis: 0-10 years = you get nothing, unless the man abused you (or cheated, IIRC)


That would GUARANTEE a huge increase in claims of abuse.  Or is there going to be some kind of requirement that abuse is proven?
 
2013-04-24 02:54:17 PM

inglixthemad: Oniamien: FTFA

"The average guy with an alimony payment couldn't retire," said Hitner, who is divorced. "And I was getting calls from (soon-to-be) second wives ready to cancel their weddings" out of concern that an ex-wife could cut into their paychecks.

I had been under the impression that if joint filing pushed you into a higher tax bracket you might actually pay  less alimony.  Does anyone know how someone could take alimony from an ex-spouse's new spouse?

While not taking money directly from the new spouse's paycheck, they have raised alimony payments on the guy. My friend had it happen to him, and he's making less than when the divorce happened.

She's (his ex) shacked up with a guy, and they aren't planning on marrying. Why would she? She gets $3k a month from him.


Here in California, if the woman moves in with a guy she can lose her alimony.
 
2013-04-24 02:55:35 PM

ragekage: Not farking soon enough. They tried to do this in Virginia, state that a child's best interest was to spend as much time with both parents as possible, and aim for equal time as a starting point and work backwards based on the needs of the kid. Instead, they still let their farking child custody judges apply the Tender Years doctrine. As a result, since I don't have a vagina, I went from having equal time with my little girl to every other weekend and only TWO weeks in the summer. Ignoring her mother TOOK OFF after my daughter was born for six months and left us both alone, and I raised her. The judge even acknowledged that, and said "Little girls need their mothers, or they become delinquents." Of course, it was my own stupid fault for thinking a lawyer was too much money to afford. But fark feminists, fark the child custody system.


This is one of the arguments I hear from MRAs* that absolutely baffles me.  You do realize that the bias toward women in many family courts in the US has absolutely nothing to do with feminists or feminism, right?  It's a throwback to the idea that a woman's place is in the home raising the kids because women are "better" at that sort of thing than men and it's the exact opposite of feminism.

*I don't know if you're an MRA and I'm not saying you are, but they do so love to use the argument that family courts are biased against men because of feminism.
 
2013-04-24 03:01:37 PM

ragekage: But fark feminists, fark the child custody system


What do feminists have to do with that?  It sounds like the judge was the asshole.
Our courts are institutions that were created by men.  Quit blaming feminists for institution that they did not create and do not control.
 
2013-04-24 03:01:40 PM
Say, how will gay marriage effect alimony?
 
2013-04-24 03:03:55 PM

OgreMagi: Which is why the radical feminists would hate it.


Radical feminist wouldn't even get married.  Quit projecting some straw-bogeyman onto what you imagine feminists ( radical or otherwise) to be.
 
2013-04-24 03:13:14 PM

Lackofname: Say, how will gay marriage effect alimony?


If two gay people get divorced they will both have to pay alimony to a divorced straight couple for destroying the sanctity of marriage not once, but twice (for getting homo-married and then reneging on the word of their vows), which ultimately is what led to those straight people divorcing anyways.

Am I doing this right?
 
2013-04-24 03:17:16 PM

Coolfusis: I have to say, my state is completely backwards in most regards, but Texas does alimony pretty well.

0-10 years = you get nothing, unless the man abused you (or cheated, IIRC)
10-20 = 5 years of alimony, 20% of the man's income, capped at 5,000 monthly
20-30 = 7 years
30+ = 10 years

If the woman cheats? She (likely) gets nothing. If she fails to try to get a job or something to support herself within a reasonable time frame? The payments stop. If she doesn't marry, but moves in some dude to party on the man's dime? The payments stop. If she gets most of the assets in the divorce/runs up a bunch of credit before the divorce/actually has the means to support herself? Her alimony amount is lessened.



Hey, at least Texas got something right.
 
2013-04-24 03:17:20 PM

OgreMagi: inglixthemad: Oniamien: FTFA

"The average guy with an alimony payment couldn't retire," said Hitner, who is divorced. "And I was getting calls from (soon-to-be) second wives ready to cancel their weddings" out of concern that an ex-wife could cut into their paychecks.

I had been under the impression that if joint filing pushed you into a higher tax bracket you might actually pay  less alimony.  Does anyone know how someone could take alimony from an ex-spouse's new spouse?

While not taking money directly from the new spouse's paycheck, they have raised alimony payments on the guy. My friend had it happen to him, and he's making less than when the divorce happened.

She's (his ex) shacked up with a guy, and they aren't planning on marrying. Why would she? She gets $3k a month from him.

Here in California, if the woman moves in with a guy she can lose her alimony.


You have to "prove" she did. She has a rathole flat as a mailing address, good luck. Doubly true if you can't afford a PI to "prove" it. Then the court has to rule it is true.

Look up: Danbury Slaughterhouse.

Some guys don't even try because the lawyers tell them if they fail, they're out the legal fees (possibly paying her fees too!) and might have it raised to boot.
 
2013-04-24 03:29:32 PM
Alimony reform is needed, but I instantly don't trust this bill simply because it was introduced by the Florida GOP and is supported by Rick Scott (kind of sad that such an affiliation creates a presumption against the legislation).

That being said, I'd love to see more concrete objections.
 
2013-04-24 03:59:13 PM

OgreMagi: Coolfusis: 0-10 years = you get nothing, unless the man abused you (or cheated, IIRC)

That would GUARANTEE a huge increase in claims of abuse.  Or is there going to be some kind of requirement that abuse is proven?


That's how it currently is in Texas, and yes, it absolutely has to be proven. The person alleging the abuse has to have called the police, the abuser been arrested, and the abused pressed charges. Also, yes, as someone mentioned - this is all if they even prove they actually need the alimony. Getting alimony in Texas is like trying to shoot a dime off a fencepost at 1,000 yards. Sure, under the right circumstances, with the right shooter, and with some luck, it can be done. Most people, though? Ha.
 
2013-04-24 04:02:20 PM

ragekage: Not farking soon enough. They tried to do this in Virginia, state that a child's best interest was to spend as much time with both parents as possible, and aim for equal time as a starting point and work backwards based on the needs of the kid. Instead, they still let their farking child custody judges apply the Tender Years doctrine. As a result, since I don't have a vagina, I went from having equal time with my little girl to every other weekend and only TWO weeks in the summer. Ignoring her mother TOOK OFF after my daughter was born for six months and left us both alone, and I raised her. The judge even acknowledged that, and said "Little girls need their mothers, or they become delinquents." Of course, it was my own stupid fault for thinking a lawyer was too much money to afford. But fark feminists, fark the child custody system.


I have no idea when your case took place, but the Tender Years doctrine hasn't been valid law in Virginia for thirty years.
 
2013-04-24 04:09:54 PM
Why are Republicans against traditional divorce and marriage?  Marriage is a commitment for life under God, even if you get divorced.  Why are they defying God's will?
 
2013-04-24 04:12:47 PM

Willas Tyrell: ragekage: Not farking soon enough. They tried to do this in Virginia, state that a child's best interest was to spend as much time with both parents as possible, and aim for equal time as a starting point and work backwards based on the needs of the kid. Instead, they still let their farking child custody judges apply the Tender Years doctrine. As a result, since I don't have a vagina, I went from having equal time with my little girl to every other weekend and only TWO weeks in the summer. Ignoring her mother TOOK OFF after my daughter was born for six months and left us both alone, and I raised her. The judge even acknowledged that, and said "Little girls need their mothers, or they become delinquents." Of course, it was my own stupid fault for thinking a lawyer was too much money to afford. But fark feminists, fark the child custody system.

I have no idea when your case took place, but the Tender Years doctrine hasn't been valid law in Virginia for thirty years.


You know this is Fark right?  You didn't expect anyone with an axe to grind give a fair assessment of their experience did you?
 
2013-04-24 04:16:04 PM

Willas Tyrell: ragekage: Not farking soon enough. They tried to do this in Virginia, state that a child's best interest was to spend as much time with both parents as possible, and aim for equal time as a starting point and work backwards based on the needs of the kid. Instead, they still let their farking child custody judges apply the Tender Years doctrine. As a result, since I don't have a vagina, I went from having equal time with my little girl to every other weekend and only TWO weeks in the summer. Ignoring her mother TOOK OFF after my daughter was born for six months and left us both alone, and I raised her. The judge even acknowledged that, and said "Little girls need their mothers, or they become delinquents." Of course, it was my own stupid fault for thinking a lawyer was too much money to afford. But fark feminists, fark the child custody system.

I have no idea when your case took place, but the Tender Years doctrine hasn't been valid law in Virginia for thirty years.


It may not be law, but it is widespread practice.

Being a journalist, I've even worked on stories where divorced moms have neglected, abused or murdered their children. Sometimes we get to talk to the dad, and he seems to have it together, so why did she have custody? Because vagina, that's why.

Unrelated: If both parents are law-abiding citizens with jobs and willing to take the kid(s) for half of the time or more, child support should be forfeited regardless of the actual parenting arrangement that is reached.
 
2013-04-24 04:35:50 PM

LiberalWeenie: Unrelated: If both parents are law-abiding citizens with jobs income above a certain level and willing to take the kid(s) for half of the time or more, child support should be forfeited regardless of the actual parenting arrangement that is reached.


If Parent A is living off of investment income and Parent B is working full time at minimum wage, Parent A should probably kick in a bit of money for when the kid is with Parent B.  I only mention that scenario since I've seen it happen.  Worked with a guy who lucked out on the stock market, made a few million and retired at 35...then told the courts that he shouldn't have to pay child support because he was unemployed.
 
2013-04-24 04:53:04 PM

Teufelaffe: LiberalWeenie: Unrelated: If both parents are law-abiding citizens with jobs income above a certain level and willing to take the kid(s) for half of the time or more, child support should be forfeited regardless of the actual parenting arrangement that is reached.

If Parent A is living off of investment income and Parent B is working full time at minimum wage, Parent A should probably kick in a bit of money for when the kid is with Parent B.  I only mention that scenario since I've seen it happen.  Worked with a guy who lucked out on the stock market, made a few million and retired at 35...then told the courts that he shouldn't have to pay child support because he was unemployed.


Yeah, I make six figures and the ex makes about 9 bucks an hour. We split custody and I have to pay her child support. In theory I am cool with it. In reality it annoys me that her other kids from other dad see as much benefit as mine from it but I try and just roll with it.
 
2013-04-24 05:13:38 PM

doyner: If you've been married 20 years and gave up most opportunities for a career, I can see long-term alimony.  But being married for 18 months shouldn't entitle anyone to a life-long annuity.  Could be fair if they had a formula linking it to time served.


I agree. I was actually under the impression that women who have only been married a short time do not get alimony. Even in community property states, the laws for dividing up property are different for a shorter marriage than a longer marriage unless there is a pre-nup. Perhaps this is different for Florida? Now, if the issue is child support, the rules should be different, and they should not be based on sex. If a man has the kids, he should get child support, regardless of the disparity of his and his wife's income. The child's standard of living should not change just because the parents cannot make a go of it.
 
2013-04-24 05:24:10 PM

DeaH: If a man has the kids, he should get child support, regardless of the disparity of his and his wife's income. The child's standard of living should not change just because the parents cannot make a go of it.


That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  Who has to pay child support and how much shouldn't have anything to do with the gender of either parent.  It should be based solely on the income levels of the parents and a reasonable standard of living for the children.
 
2013-04-24 05:24:43 PM

DeaH: doyner: If you've been married 20 years and gave up most opportunities for a career, I can see long-term alimony.  But being married for 18 months shouldn't entitle anyone to a life-long annuity.  Could be fair if they had a formula linking it to time served.

I agree. I was actually under the impression that women who have only been married a short time do not get alimony. Even in community property states, the laws for dividing up property are different for a shorter marriage than a longer marriage unless there is a pre-nup. Perhaps this is different for Florida? Now, if the issue is child support, the rules should be different, and they should not be based on sex. If a man has the kids, he should get child support, regardless of the disparity of his and his wife's income. The child's standard of living should not change just because the parents cannot make a go of it.


No, not different... the PAC running this campaign makes it sound as though judges in Florida are required to award life-long alimony in any divorce; which is not true.  This is another instance where a relatively small but vocal (read: wealthy) minority is buying their way in the legislature.
 
2013-04-24 05:33:43 PM

DeaH: doyner: If you've been married 20 years and gave up most opportunities for a career, I can see long-term alimony.  But being married for 18 months shouldn't entitle anyone to a life-long annuity.  Could be fair if they had a formula linking it to time served.

I agree. I was actually under the impression that women who have only been married a short time do not get alimony.



You are correct. Alimony is only awarded if a spouse spent the last several years of the marriage not working.

It's a matter of state law, though, so who knows what they've cooked up in Florida.
 
2013-04-24 05:44:48 PM

FirstNationalBastard: I'm confused... The Republicans are on the correct side of a fight. And they're Florida Republicans, to boot.

[today.ucla.edu image 239x256]

/I also see that the people complaining about this are largely women... why don't women want to be treated as the equals of men? Or does "equality" mean "we only get the benefits, none of the drawbacks"?


Ah, I see you've met several feminists, recently. Furthermore, you have cut to the heart of their doctrines.
 
2013-04-24 05:53:56 PM

Teufelaffe: DeaH: If a man has the kids, he should get child support, regardless of the disparity of his and his wife's income. The child's standard of living should not change just because the parents cannot make a go of it.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  Who has to pay child support and how much shouldn't have anything to do with the gender of either parent.  It should be based solely on the income levels of the parents and a reasonable standard of living for the children.


You're half-right. It should be based on the income levels of the parents and the amount of time the children spend with each parent--a "non-custodial" parent who still has the children half the time needs more money in pocket to care for said children, after all. Demanding any "reasonable standard of living" for the children is not a good idea. What if the parents COULD NOT AFFORD a "reasonable standard of living" before the divorce? Who decides on a "reasonable standard of living"? Why should divorced parents be denied equal protection before the law? That is, if they're divorced, they have to adhere to a court's decision for a "reasonable standard of living", but if they live together, they don't. It should be based on income.

Likewise, under a sane system, if a parent who is not "custodial" still has time with the children, and if the "custodial" parent makes a boatload of money more than does the "noncustodial" parent, the "custodial" parent should pay child support. Indiana does this. A case went up to the Indiana Supreme Court. Even though the mother was "custodial", the father had as much time (as in "overnights") with the children as did the mother. They lived close enough to each other that the kids could alternate homes and still attend the same school, etc. The mother made a great deal more than did the father. Unfortunately, due to the wording of the law at the time, the mother could not be assessed child support because the father was not "custodial". She even went so far as to demand the court continue to assess child support from the father. The state Supreme Court ruled that, as the law was then worded, they could not order the mother to pay child support, even though it would have been, in their opinion, in the best interests of the children and according to the spirit of child support in Indiana. However, they did rule that, even though the law as written did require the "non-custodial" parent to pay child support, the law did not specify a minimum amount, so the father was assessed an obligation of $0, weekly. The law did get changed so that this situation would no longer arise. A "custodial" parent in Indiana no longer has privileged status when it comes to child support. It's based on relative income and time with the children.
 
2013-04-24 06:11:00 PM

Silly_Sot: Teufelaffe: DeaH: If a man has the kids, he should get child support, regardless of the disparity of his and his wife's income. The child's standard of living should not change just because the parents cannot make a go of it.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  Who has to pay child support and how much shouldn't have anything to do with the gender of either parent.  It should be based solely on the income levels of the parents and a reasonable standard of living for the children.

You're half-right. It should be based on the income levels of the parents and the amount of time the children spend with each parent--a "non-custodial" parent who still has the children half the time needs more money in pocket to care for said children, after all. Demanding any "reasonable standard of living" for the children is not a good idea. What if the parents COULD NOT AFFORD a "reasonable standard of living" before the divorce? Who decides on a "reasonable standard of living"? Why should divorced parents be denied equal protection before the law? That is, if they're divorced, they have to adhere to a court's decision for a "reasonable standard of living", but if they live together, they don't. It should be based on income.

Likewise, under a sane system, if a parent who is not "custodial" still has time with the children, and if the "custodial" parent makes a boatload of money more than does the "noncustodial" parent, the "custodial" parent should pay child support. Indiana does this. A case went up to the Indiana Supreme Court. Even though the mother was "custodial", the father had as much time (as in "overnights") with the children as did the mother. They lived close enough to each other that the kids could alternate homes and still attend the same school, etc. The mother made a great deal more than did the father. Unfortunately, due to the wording of the law at the time, the mother could not be assessed child support because the father was not "custodial". She even went so ...


How is one parent "non-custodial" if the parenting time is split 50/50? Must be a legal thing that varies from state to state because I am not a lawyer but I know a bit about custody law in Colorado and I have never heard of such a thing.
 
2013-04-24 06:12:30 PM

Silly_Sot: Teufelaffe: DeaH: If a man has the kids, he should get child support, regardless of the disparity of his and his wife's income. The child's standard of living should not change just because the parents cannot make a go of it.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  Who has to pay child support and how much shouldn't have anything to do with the gender of either parent.  It should be based solely on the income levels of the parents and a reasonable standard of living for the children.

You're half-right. It should be based on the income levels of the parents and the amount of time the children spend with each parent--a "non-custodial" parent who still has the children half the time needs more money in pocket to care for said children, after all. Demanding any "reasonable standard of living" for the children is not a good idea. What if the parents COULD NOT AFFORD a "reasonable standard of living" before the divorce? Who decides on a "reasonable standard of living"? Why should divorced parents be denied equal protection before the law? That is, if they're divorced, they have to adhere to a court's decision for a "reasonable standard of living", but if they live together, they don't. It should be based on income.

Likewise, under a sane system, if a parent who is not "custodial" still has time with the children, and if the "custodial" parent makes a boatload of money more than does the "noncustodial" parent, the "custodial" parent should pay child support. Indiana does this. A case went up to the Indiana Supreme Court. Even though the mother was "custodial", the father had as much time (as in "overnights") with the children as did the mother. They lived close enough to each other that the kids could alternate homes and still attend the same school, etc. The mother made a great deal more than did the father. Unfortunately, due to the wording of the law at the time, the mother could not be assessed child support because the father was not "custodial". She even went so ...


My whole thought behind the "reasonable standard of living" is that a child's basic needs should be met, but it doesn't need to be the same as it was prior to the divorce.  In essence it's to avoid the idiotic "in keeping with the manner to which they are accustomed" crap that can happen.  If little Timmy was used to eating caviar for lunch every day from solid gold plates, that doesn't mean that the court should try and find a child support level that allows that to continue after the divorce.  On the other hand, it's obvious that the childrens' basic needs must be met.  It's not an easy balance to find, but I've just seen a number of folks who get shafted in a divorce because the court seemed to think that because the ex or the kids were used to a lavish lifestyle during the marriage, that they somehow deserve to keep that lavish lifestyle after the divorce.
 
2013-04-24 06:53:30 PM

Aidan: sammyk: It's worse here. I actually talked the ex into letting me claim my daughter one year. I got audited. Told tough shiat unless I had a court order.

Jesus fark. That ain't right.


No, it isn't.  You're supposed to make provision for dependent deduction rotations in your divorce decree.  The IRS doesn't have time to figure out your sloppy verbal agreements.
 
2013-04-24 06:54:33 PM

FirstNationalBastard: The Why Not Guy: Those seem like common sense changes for the most part. Maybe it would seem less "one sided and anti woman" if they included (much) harsher penalties for deadbeats who won't pay child support.

If child support is going to be factored into things, it's high time someone starts pushing for Paternity testing at birth, to make sure that some poor bastard isn't paying for another man's child.


All you gotta do is ask, man.
 
2013-04-24 06:55:56 PM

farker99: Rather than 1/2 the length of the marriage, how about 1.5 times the marriage?

This means the longer you are married and he/she is out of the work force the longer you have to carry them.

Married 1 day, 1.5 days of payments.
Married 1 year, 1.5 years of payments.
Married 20 years, 30 years of payments.

Means being in a long term relationship is long term. During and after.


You make it sound like being in a BAD long term relationship is a good thing.
 
2013-04-24 06:57:15 PM

jst3p: Marriage is a suckers bet, for men.


Jesus' disciples then said to him, "If this is the case, it is better not to marry!"  - Matt. 19:10
 
2013-04-24 08:00:45 PM

Lackofname: Say, how will gay marriage effect alimony?


Same sex marriage gets a bit tricky...

When two lesbians get divorced, there is no man to fark over WRT child support, alimony, and outstanding debt. It also wouldn't be fair to force one of the women to give up a car or a place to live. Therefore, when two gays get a divorce, one gets saddled with all the marriage debt, loses the house and car, and gets tossed into the street. The OTHER gay gives up the car and house to one of the lesbian divorcees and takes on the duty of alimony, child support, and debt repayment. This is all still a work-in-progress which is why same sex marriage is taking longer to get approved than it should. Lots of stuff like this going on in the background that has to get hashed out.
 
2013-04-24 08:20:31 PM

Apik0r0s: FirstNationalBastard: doyner: If you've been married 20 years and gave up most opportunities for a career, I can see long-term alimony.  But being married for 18 months shouldn't entitle anyone to a life-long annuity.  Could be fair if they had a formula linking it to time served.

Something like this...?

FTFA

Among the provisions, the legislation would generally bar payments from lasting more than half the duration of a marriage and impose benefit caps based on salary.

 But yeah, I agree that if someone gave up their life to be a homemaker, raise the kids, whatever, and then get traded in for the newer model, they should get fair compensation to try to rebuild their life.

That cuts both ways.


And that, friend, is called equality.
 
2013-04-24 09:02:55 PM

LiberalWeenie: Willas Tyrell: ragekage: Not farking soon enough. They tried to do this in Virginia, state that a child's best interest was to spend as much time with both parents as possible, and aim for equal time as a starting point and work backwards based on the needs of the kid. Instead, they still let their farking child custody judges apply the Tender Years doctrine. As a result, since I don't have a vagina, I went from having equal time with my little girl to every other weekend and only TWO weeks in the summer. Ignoring her mother TOOK OFF after my daughter was born for six months and left us both alone, and I raised her. The judge even acknowledged that, and said "Little girls need their mothers, or they become delinquents." Of course, it was my own stupid fault for thinking a lawyer was too much money to afford. But fark feminists, fark the child custody system.

I have no idea when your case took place, but the Tender Years doctrine hasn't been valid law in Virginia for thirty years.

It may not be law, but it is widespread practice.

Being a journalist, I've even worked on stories where divorced moms have neglected, abused or murdered their children. Sometimes we get to talk to the dad, and he seems to have it together, so why did she have custody? Because vagina, that's why.

Unrelated: If both parents are law-abiding citizens with jobs and willing to take the kid(s) for half of the time or more, child support should be forfeited regardless of the actual parenting arrangement that is reached.


Exactly this, and especially since I didn't have a lawyer, the judge and the GAL rode roughshod all over me and did whatever the fark they wanted to. The judge on appeal, as well as my lawyer, were both appalled.
 
2013-04-24 09:21:31 PM

Teufelaffe: DeaH: If a man has the kids, he should get child support, regardless of the disparity of his and his wife's income. The child's standard of living should not change just because the parents cannot make a go of it.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  Who has to pay child support and how much shouldn't have anything to do with the gender of either parent.  It should be based solely on the income levels of the parents and a reasonable standard of living for the children.


Actually, what I said - right before the section you snipped - is that it shouldn't have anything to do with gender. The example I used of the man having custody was merely to illustrate that the non-custodial parent needs to pay child support even when that parent is a woman. Where it seems that you and I have a disagreement has to do with income. I don't care if the custodial parent is loaded and the non-custodial parent is not. The non-custodial parent needs to contribute to the child's financial well-being.
 
2013-04-24 10:21:47 PM
Alimony should last no longer than 1/2 of the married time, and cap out at 10 years of alimony.  It also should be capped based on a percentage of the income of the individual paying alimony, and should not take into account the income of their new spouse.

Half of the assets plus 10 years to get your life in order is long enough.  Your ex doesn't owe you a permanent meal ticket.

It was originally created because women don't typically work, so if they got divorced they needed income or they starved.  Those days are long over, and people can forge their own way in life without leeching from someone else.
 
2013-04-24 10:26:57 PM
Alimony really shouldn't exist unless the woman is physically disabled and unable to find employment

There is nothing stopping a divorced woman from searching though the help wanted adds.

/There is no constitutional guarantee to a "quality of life"  If there is a divorce you may just have to adjust your lifestyle to deal with it.
 
2013-04-24 10:29:05 PM

bofkentucky: FirstNationalBastard: The Why Not Guy: Those seem like common sense changes for the most part. Maybe it would seem less "one sided and anti woman" if they included (much) harsher penalties for deadbeats who won't pay child support.

If child support is going to be factored into things, it's high time someone starts pushing for Paternity testing at birth, to make sure that some poor bastard isn't paying for another man's child.

The state does not have a vested interest in finding the correct father, they have a vested interest in someone footing the bill.  That's why mandatory paternity testing isn't on the books.


I would argue that forcing a man to support a child he didn't father is an Unconstitutional government confiscation of property.
 
2013-04-24 10:41:37 PM

Kome: I was under the assumption this was already the case in Florida, because of how my parents' divorce went down. My parents were married for about 16 years before that ended. When I came along, my mom gave up being an RN to be a stay-at-home mom while dad, the doctor, worked. He managed to only have to pay alimony for like 3 years. Meanwhile, my mom had to jump from job to job to job - hotel desk staff, secretary for an interior designer, transcriptionist, etc. - to be able to keep the kids fed and with a roof over our head.

Of course, my mom's lawyer was so inept and without the slightest hint of humanity that he tried to convince her to be a stripper if she needed to find a good-paying job because fighting to get alimony (oh yea, and child support, since a man pulling down six-figures would be too burdened to have to pay child support until we all turned 18, according to how the judge ruled) would be a waste of time.


People normally have to struggle to have enough money to raise kids. Your mother wasn't entitled to a guaranteed income for life...
 
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