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(TreeHugger)   In the USA, there are now more workers in solar power than coal miners   (treehugger.com) divider line 304
    More: Spiffy, USA, solar energy, workers  
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3677 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2013 at 11:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-25 12:03:20 AM

People_are_Idiots: Hollie Maea: People_are_Idiots: Care to see hail's damage?

Yes, hail farks up cars, as most people are aware.  But it doesn't fark up solar panels.  The glass used in solar panels is far more robust, and the panels are tested and certified to be able to withstand the worst of hail storms.  This thread contains several citations for this fact.

The glass used on the most expensive panels is the tempered "safety glass," which also is used on all vehicles, and are not "hail proof." Yes they can take some damage, but a big baseball-sized piece of hail will penetrate. (Link: http://gold-coast-solar-power-solutions.com.au/posts/solar-panels-hai l /  ). Typically, the "garden-variety" solar panel is mostly the same pane glass one finds on old houses.

Here's a good rundown on what PV solar panels are weak to: http://www.ehow.com/info_8005809_damages-solar-panel.html

Why is Solar Thermal better? All metal, easier to generate electricity, no delicate parts.... no need for glass, and can withstand a lot more.


Jesus Christ.  No, no no no no.

Your entire post is a train wreck.  First you point out that since the glass is "tempered safety glass" then it must be exactly the same as auto glass, ignoring the fact that not all "tempered safety glass" is equivalent.  Yes, it has the same name.  No, it does not have the same rating.

Then you link to a page from a solar manufacturer that states that their product totes can withstand hail, but if you buy from someone else, who can say?  That's not a citation; that is marketing.  No, McDonalds is not going to guarantee that Burger King food won't give you food poisoning.  That doesn't mean that their food is actually safer.

Then you assert that most "garden variety" solar panels have the same glass you find on old houses.  This is simply untrue.  I defy you to find any solar panel anywhere that has a nameplate on it for which this is true.  The fact that it is possible that some guy in Nairobi bought a pallet of cells from Alibaba and placed them under some glass from an old abandoned building doesn't prove your point.  There is nothing special about those guys boasting about their tough glass--EVERYONE USES IT, and to be certified in the US, Europe or most other places, it is REQUIRED, along with impact tests that prove that it can withstand hail.

Then, to top it off, you pull out your Coup de Grace: a link to a farking "ehow" article that was clearly written by someone who has no goddamn clue what he is talking about.

When you find yourself using "ehow" as your citations, it might be wise to take a step back and recognize that maybe you have no idea what you are talking about.

As a counterpoint, I posted a VIDEO of a panel being subjected to a hail test, so that your own lying eyes can see it.  I also linked to a description of the tests that panels are required to undergo for certification.  Someone else linked to a video of a car driving across a panel.

You are wrong about this, man.  I don't give a fark whether or not you get solar thermal rather than PV.  But enough with the blatant disinformation.
 
2013-04-25 12:57:42 AM

Lsherm: MrSteve007: Rent Party: Wow! I'm in Maple Valley, and didn't think that kind of setup would float year round out here. I've got a bit more square footage and my kitchen and water are gas, but I still have considerable electrical use.

Who did the install, since we're kind of neighbors?

Yep, grew up in Enumclaw, work in Tukwila and live in Sumner. My best friend comes from Maple Valley (now lives in Covington). Up here in WA, expect to see a 5-7 year ROI, with current costs and incentives.

Before ponying up the money for PV panels, make sure to make your house as efficient as possible. Here's now I did mine. It includes the major milestones, and doesn't include the little stuff I did like LED lighting and air sealing:
[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x476]

I know that since adding the electric car, it's taking up a large share of my annual PV production. I still need a full year's worth of data before I can figure out exactly how additional PV I need to get back to net-zero energy. One nice thing though, is that my energy costs are still way, way down. As the long summer days start to come around in the next few months, I expect my 2013 electrical costs to plummet (these numbers don't include the ~$2,400 production incentive I'll get back from the state in August)
[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 605x362]

As for installers, there are quite a few options. If you don't want any money out of your pocket, SolarCity is the largest installer in the USA, do all the financing/leasing in house, and are now available in WA. Caveat Emptor; I've never done business with them, and only have word of mouth. They work their program so that your monthly lease will be less than what your current electrical bill is. However they use components that aren't local and keep all the incentives.

Washington State has a very generous renewable energy production credit - especially if you use locally made solar panels and inverters (both manufactured up in Marysville). If you use out-of-state products, y ...

You entire setup is impressive, but how much money overall did it take to set it up?  I know you have state incentives, but if you could include the total cost because those aren't countrywide, that would help.

These are investments.  If you spent $80K setting everything up for a null electricity bill, that's still going to take some years to get the money back.


Read the thread. He's volunteered all your answers.
 
2013-04-25 02:08:01 AM

foo monkey: Read the thread. He's volunteered all your answers.


Yeah, missed the post about his cost.  So absent the car, it's $26K for the system.  That's a lot for anyone.

That's all I wanted to know.  He's even getting credits because he's using locally sourced panels, which obviously aren't available to people outside the state.

Just trying to get an estimate of a "real" cost for people who can't garner a tax credit by using locally sourced solar panels.
 
2013-04-25 04:52:05 AM

Hollie Maea: People_are_Idiots: Hollie Maea: People_are_Idiots: Care to see hail's damage?

Yes, hail farks up cars, as most people are aware.  But it doesn't fark up solar panels.  The glass used in solar panels is far more robust, and the panels are tested and certified to be able to withstand the worst of hail storms.  This thread contains several citations for this fact.

The glass used on the most expensive panels is the tempered "safety glass," which also is used on all vehicles, and are not "hail proof." Yes they can take some damage, but a big baseball-sized piece of hail will penetrate. (Link: http://gold-coast-solar-power-solutions.com.au/posts/solar-panels-hai l /  ). Typically, the "garden-variety" solar panel is mostly the same pane glass one finds on old houses.

Here's a good rundown on what PV solar panels are weak to: http://www.ehow.com/info_8005809_damages-solar-panel.html

Why is Solar Thermal better? All metal, easier to generate electricity, no delicate parts.... no need for glass, and can withstand a lot more.

Jesus Christ.  No, no no no no.

Your entire post is a train wreck.  First you point out that since the glass is "tempered safety glass" then it must be exactly the same as auto glass, ignoring the fact that not all "tempered safety glass" is equivalent.  Yes, it has the same name.  No, it does not have the same rating.

Then you link to a page from a solar manufacturer that states that their product totes can withstand hail, but if you buy from someone else, who can say?  That's not a citation; that is marketing.  No, McDonalds is not going to guarantee that Burger King food won't give you food poisoning.  That doesn't mean that their food is actually safer.

Then you assert that most "garden variety" solar panels have the same glass you find on old houses.  This is simply untrue.  I defy you to find any solar panel anywhere that has a nameplate on it for which this is true.  The fact that it is possible that some guy in Nairobi bought a pallet of ...


Well, you keep asserting "OH OH .22 CALIBER SHELLS CAN'T PENETRATE" when baseball-sized hail has the momemtum higher than a .45 caliber bullet, and a wider impact. As far as the marketing, I saw the only thing closely related to it it was "you get what you pay for." I've seen first-hand what hail does to PV solar panels after merely 6 months of operation (and the $3-5000 loss the person took) from one frickin hailstorm. You wish to sell them fine, but at least look at reality for me a bit ok?

/and since you don't read eHow... here's the LINKS from the article (used as reference FOR the article): http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_solar_repair.html http://solar home.org/solarpanelsfaqs.html#faq12 http://www.roofery.com/solar-pan els/hail-damage.html
 
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