Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Washington Post)   Graham and McCain told to "go back to school and study their constitutional law"   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, John McCain, Tsarnaev, constitutions, enemy combatants, indefinite detention, Jack Goldsmith, Benjamin Wittes  
•       •       •

4239 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Apr 2013 at 9:26 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



73 Comments   (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2013-04-23 08:34:56 AM  
They don't need the Constitution when thye have the Bible.
 
2013-04-23 08:40:10 AM  
Obama chooses to try Tsarnaev in the courts: OMG, Obama is coddling terrorists by not calling them enemy combatants.

Obama designates Tsarnaev an enemy combatant: OMG, Obama is stripping an American citizen of his rights.

Obama waits a day to label the attack "terrorism": OMG, Obama isn't able to recognize an attack on his own country. It's Benghazi all over again.

Obama labels the attack as terrorism the instant it happens: OMG, Obama can't even wait for actual facts to emerge?

Obama allows the FBI and other agencies to take the lead in solving the case: OMG, can't Obama be bothered to involve himself in investigating an attack that killed Americans?

Obama takes a handgun and personally leads a SWAT team into Boston, where he shoots Tsarnaev in the head: OMG, Obama just killed an American citizen without a trial.

Obama declares war on Chechnya: OMG how can a Nobel Peace Prize winner be such a warmongering drone striking murderer?

Obama does not declare war on Chechnya: OMG see this is what happens when we have a spineless commander in chief whose foreign policy consists of bowing and apologizing.

Obama gives a press conference about the bomber: OMG, Obama, could you try to not make this about yourself and stop spiking the football?

Obama does not give a press conference about the bomber: OMG, Obama, most secretive president EVAR.

And so on.
 
2013-04-23 08:43:00 AM  
But is Obama gay or looks at too many women's beehinds?
 
2013-04-23 08:49:04 AM  
I think the Administration made the right call. That said, I don't think they deserve a pat on the back for not completely disregarding the Bill of Rights. McCain and Graham are just wrong here.
 
2013-04-23 08:49:58 AM  
The Constitution doesn't apply when someone says "terrorism"

Unfortunately, this is what Americans actually believe.
 
2013-04-23 08:55:34 AM  
Full quote by <a id="cu83766846" href="demaL-demaL-yeHfrom a redlit thread because I couldn't say it any better:

The idea here is to minimize the attention these assholes get. Convict them of their crimes and let "aggravating circumstances" dictate the sentence, not the charges.

If our legal system responds with, "OMG TERRORIZMZ!" they get the press and "conservatives" get to push the fear button. The terrorists get the attention they crave.

If our legal system responds with, "Meh. We have the bastahd cold on his crime spree: three counts of first-degree murder, one hundred seventy + counts attempted murder, shooting at cops, killing a cop, almost killing another cop, vehicular homicide, kidnapping, grand theft auto, unregistered weapons, resisting arrest, discharging firearms within city limits, disturbing the peace, criminal violation of city noise ordinance, evading police, speeding, and malicious damage to and vandalism of a watercraft", then nails him on all counts, his "cause" gets no panicked payoff.

They have him dead cold, and the sentence enhancers only call attention to the wrong things.
Our system of justice should act like a system of justice and put the criminal away for good.
Keep the SOB alive for a very long time and use a punishment that meets Amendment VIII standards.
Remind him every waking minute of just how much he threw away: how he screwed up the lives of strangers who generously welcomed, encouraged and sheltered him and his moronic, angry, shoplifting family, along with how he screwed up his own.

/I'm a dick that way.
 
2013-04-23 08:56:06 AM  

Nabb1: I think the Administration made the right call. That said, I don't think they deserve a pat on the back for not completely disregarding the Bill of Rights. McCain and Graham are just wrong here.


Normally I'd agree.  But the bar has been set in a low positions this past 14 years.

I really don't understand their argument here.  Labeling him an enemy combatant would be less effective and would violate our laws and principles.  It would only sate our fears and satisfy our desire for revenge.  Is that worth forgoing the intel and violating the Constitution?
 
2013-04-23 09:01:03 AM  

Diogenes: Nabb1: I think the Administration made the right call. That said, I don't think they deserve a pat on the back for not completely disregarding the Bill of Rights. McCain and Graham are just wrong here.

Normally I'd agree.  But the bar has been set in a low positions this past 14 years.

I really don't understand their argument here.  Labeling him an enemy combatant would be less effective and would violate our laws and principles.  It would only sate our fears and satisfy our desire for revenge.  Is that worth forgoing the intel and violating the Constitution?


I'd wager that the DOJ et al have already determined he has little intel to offer and there's no value in going the "enemy combatant" route. The President has kept Camp X-Ray running and signed a law allowing indefinite detention of "terror suspects," so I think he's willing to do it in some situations, but this is not one of them. So, let's hold off on the confetti showers.
 
2013-04-23 09:03:27 AM  
Diogenes:I really don't understand their argument here.  Labeling him an enemy combatant would be less effective and would violate our laws and principles.  It would only sate our fears and satisfy our desire for revenge.  Is that worth forgoing the intel and violating the Constitution?

It is, if you're one of those who believed the series "24" was a reality show.
 
2013-04-23 09:06:22 AM  

Nabb1: So, let's hold off on the confetti showers.


Well, I wasn't suggesting that either.  They had some options, and they picked the right one IMHO.  Nothing more.
 
2013-04-23 09:08:43 AM  

Diogenes: Nabb1: I think the Administration made the right call. That said, I don't think they deserve a pat on the back for not completely disregarding the Bill of Rights. McCain and Graham are just wrong here.

Normally I'd agree.  But the bar has been set in a low positions this past 14 years.

I really don't understand their argument here.  Labeling him an enemy combatant would be less effective and would violate our laws and principles.  It would only sate our fears and satisfy our desire for revenge.  Is that worth forgoing the intel and violating the Constitution?




Some people think we're in some sort of Holy War. That implies that we should give no quarter. this wasn't a battle, it was a farking cowardly crime. This was a criminal act. Hell, I'd say it was a hate crime.
 
2013-04-23 09:08:58 AM  

Diogenes: Nabb1: So, let's hold off on the confetti showers.

Well, I wasn't suggesting that either.  They had some options, and they picked the right one IMHO.  Nothing more.


Agreed. I'm sad that this is even a discussion, though.
 
2013-04-23 09:10:07 AM  
Charge him with his brothers murder. That's it. Don't give him the glory of the bombing charges and subsequent trial
 
2013-04-23 09:10:11 AM  

Nabb1: Diogenes: Nabb1: So, let's hold off on the confetti showers.

Well, I wasn't suggesting that either.  They had some options, and they picked the right one IMHO.  Nothing more.

Agreed. I'm sad that this is even a discussion, though.


Truth. Our standards have slipped to sickeningly low levels.
 
2013-04-23 09:13:19 AM  
The 2nd amendment is the only one that counts
 
2013-04-23 09:17:36 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: The 2nd amendment is the only one that counts


I was thinking of posting something similar, but IIRC, McCain supported the background check legislation that failed.

He's coming at this  Tsarnaev thing from a mavericky angle, apparently.
 
2013-04-23 09:32:36 AM  
Awww, are they pissed because we can't punish them pre-trial, thus contravening the great American motto of "Fark you, funny-named brown guy citizen!"
 
2013-04-23 09:34:16 AM  

SilentStrider: They don't need the Constitution when thye have the Bible.


lol     Senators Crumb and McStain at America's service!!
 
2013-04-23 09:35:10 AM  
Pocket Ninja: wall of truth.

That's a pretty dead on assessment.  And the GOP wonders why they lost the election.

/Incoherent noise should not be a party platform.
 
2013-04-23 09:35:45 AM  

Aarontology: The Constitution doesn't apply when someone says "terrorism"

Unfortunately, this is what Americans actually believe.



you can do anything you like in America.   all you have to say is that its in the name of National Security.
 
2013-04-23 09:35:49 AM  
Looks like Napoleon Bloomberg wants to suspend parts of the Constitution as well.
 
2013-04-23 09:36:10 AM  
It's almost like Lindsay 'Totally Not Gay' Graham has an election coming up is constantly in danger of primary challenger from the right so he is forced to say retarded things like things like this. However that doesn't excuse he from it's stupidity nor the other Senatorial morons from agreeing with him.
 
2013-04-23 09:38:54 AM  

StrikitRich: Looks like Napoleon Bloomberg wants to suspend parts of the Constitution as well.


Can't defend the people we're talking about so misdirect to someone else.  Weak and obvious.

But you're right.  Having to refill my soda is totally the same as the suspension of due process and circumventing our system of justice.  I feel the boot of Hitler on my neck every time I go into a 7-11 in Manhattan.
 
2013-04-23 09:40:40 AM  

Diogenes: StrikitRich: Looks like Napoleon Bloomberg wants to suspend parts of the Constitution as well.

Can't defend the people we're talking about so misdirect to someone else.  Weak and obvious.

But you're right.  Having to refill my soda is totally the same as the suspension of due process and circumventing our system of justice.  I feel the boot of Hitler on my neck every time I go into a 7-11 in Manhattan.


Goddammit, you can get Big Gulps at 7-11s in Manhattan! Grocery stores are exempt, and convenience stores are classified as such! I can walk two blocks and get a 64-ounce Double Gulp right now in midtown! It doesn't make the spirit of the law any less stupid, but the letter has unimpeded my ability to destroy my kidneys.
 
2013-04-23 09:40:52 AM  

Nabb1: I think the Administration made the right call. That said, I don't think they deserve a pat on the back for not completely disregarding the Bill of Rights. McCain and Graham are just wrong here.


agree 100 percent. patting them on the back is like giving a kid a medal for 6th place. the number-one job of the president and congress is to support and defend the constitution. this should have been an easy call - a no brainer.
 
2013-04-23 09:42:24 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: Charge him with his brothers murder. That's it. Don't give him the glory of the bombing charges and subsequent trial


He'd probably walk from that one.  Even if he really did back up over his brother, the court would have a hard time proving that it was that, and not the 563356325 bullet holes, or the bomb that killed him.

But I like your idea.  Charge him with multiple counts of vehicle theft and killing a police officer.  That should be enough to have him rot in a cell for quite some time.
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2013-04-23 09:43:03 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Obama chooses to try Tsarnaev in the courts: OMG, Obama is coddling terrorists by not calling them enemy combatants.

Obama designates Tsarnaev an enemy combatant: OMG, Obama is stripping an American citizen of his rights.

Obama waits a day to label the attack "terrorism": OMG, Obama isn't able to recognize an attack on his own country. It's Benghazi all over again.

Obama labels the attack as terrorism the instant it happens: OMG, Obama can't even wait for actual facts to emerge?

Obama allows the FBI and other agencies to take the lead in solving the case: OMG, can't Obama be bothered to involve himself in investigating an attack that killed Americans?

Obama takes a handgun and personally leads a SWAT team into Boston, where he shoots Tsarnaev in the head: OMG, Obama just killed an American citizen without a trial.

Obama declares war on Chechnya: OMG how can a Nobel Peace Prize winner be such a warmongering drone striking murderer?

Obama does not declare war on Chechnya: OMG see this is what happens when we have a spineless commander in chief whose foreign policy consists of bowing and apologizing.

Obama gives a press conference about the bomber: OMG, Obama, could you try to not make this about yourself and stop spiking the football?

Obama does not give a press conference about the bomber: OMG, Obama, most secretive president EVAR.

And so on.


Oh holy crap, this this this this this.
 
2013-04-23 09:43:36 AM  
Please subby. Decsribe the constitutional authority for drone strikes on american citizens without even minimal court oversight. Liberals seem fine with that one.
 
2013-04-23 09:47:07 AM  

MyRandomName: Liberals seem fine with that one.


Don't pretend to speak for me.
 
2013-04-23 09:47:14 AM  
The only part of the Constitution these dingleberries care about is the 2nd amendment.  That's it.  The rest of it can FOAD, as far as they're concerned.  Tsarnaev is an American citizen.  Therefore he gets the same rights/protections that the rest of us get, no matter his crimes or his motivations.  He gets tried in civilian court, he's judged by a civilian judge and a civilian jury, then he gets sent to jail for the rest of his miserable, pathetic life (I am opposed to the death penalty.).  That's how the system is supposed to work, and that's how it damn well better work for him.
 
2013-04-23 09:47:44 AM  
Using American citizens to commit acts if terror would create a "legal safe haven?" Listen, Senator Jackass, committing the sort of act you are envisioning would still be a crime. Our legal system convicts terrible people for their terrible acts everyday. Quit giving in to fear and let our justice system do its work.
 
2013-04-23 09:48:10 AM  

MyRandomName: Please subby. Decsribe the constitutional authority for drone strikes on american citizens without even minimal court oversight. Liberals seem fine with that one.


Your beef is with Alan Dershowitz.
 
2013-04-23 09:48:53 AM  

MyRandomName: Please subby. Decsribe the constitutional authority for drone strikes on american citizens without even minimal court oversight. Liberals seem fine with that one.


That's easy, on foreign soil when you take up arms against your own government, you, by definition, are an enemy combatant (and possibly committing treason).
 
2013-04-23 09:49:25 AM  

hinten: . We have the bastahd cold on his crime spree: three counts of first-degree murder, one hundred seventy + counts attempted murder, shooting at cops, killing a cop, almost killing another cop, vehicular homicide, kidnapping, grand theft auto, unregistered weapons, resisting arrest, discharging firearms within city limits, disturbing the peace, criminal violation of city noise ordinance, evading police, speeding, and malicious damage to and vandalism of a watercraft


Had you included littering and creating a public nuisance, I would be asking to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
2013-04-23 09:49:35 AM  
Why wasn't Adam Lanza treated as an enemy combatant?
 
2013-04-23 09:49:56 AM  
Actually, the Supreme Court said in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld that a US citizen can be held as an enemy combatant - you just have to give him a chance in court to contest that designation.

Of course, that's not exactly what Graham and McCain had in mind.  They want him tossed in Gitmo for the rest of his life and only disagree on the amount of water which should be poured down his throat.  Although that's disagreement is lessening as McCain descends into yelling-at-cloud levels of dementia.
 
2013-04-23 09:50:54 AM  

hinten: Full quote by <a id="cu83766846" href="demaL-demaL-yeHfrom a redlit thread because I couldn't say it any better:

The idea here is to minimize the attention these assholes get. Convict them of their crimes and let "aggravating circumstances" dictate the sentence, not the charges.

If our legal system responds with, "OMG TERRORIZMZ!" they get the press and "conservatives" get to push the fear button. The terrorists get the attention they crave.

If our legal system responds with, "Meh. We have the bastahd cold on his crime spree: three counts of first-degree murder, one hundred seventy + counts attempted murder, shooting at cops, killing a cop, almost killing another cop, vehicular homicide, kidnapping, grand theft auto, unregistered weapons, resisting arrest, discharging firearms within city limits, disturbing the peace, criminal violation of city noise ordinance, evading police, speeding, and malicious damage to and vandalism of a watercraft", then nails him on all counts, his "cause" gets no panicked payoff.

They have him dead cold, and the sentence enhancers only call attention to the wrong things.
Our system of justice should act like a system of justice and put the criminal away for good.
Keep the SOB alive for a very long time and use a punishment that meets Amendment VIII standards.
Remind him every waking minute of just how much he threw away: how he screwed up the lives of strangers who generously welcomed, encouraged and sheltered him and his moronic, angry, shoplifting family, along with how he screwed up his own.

/I'm a dick that way.


well, that was easy

/Di6
 
2013-04-23 09:51:14 AM  

steverockson: Why wasn't Adam Lanza treated as an enemy combatant?


Here gentlemen, we have an example of a really bad troll. The kind of troll that makes weak trolls seem good.
 
2013-04-23 09:54:41 AM  

WTF Indeed: steverockson: Why wasn't Adam Lanza treated as an enemy combatant?

Here gentlemen, we have an example of a really bad troll. The kind of troll that makes weak trolls seem good.


Not enough misspellings?
 
2013-04-23 09:55:37 AM  

MyRandomName: Please subby. Decsribe the constitutional authority for drone strikes on american citizens without even minimal court oversight. Liberals seem fine with that one.


Um, no we're not. And our libby-lib commentators aren't either.

You need to get out more.
 
2013-04-23 09:57:19 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Diogenes: Nabb1: I think the Administration made the right call. That said, I don't think they deserve a pat on the back for not completely disregarding the Bill of Rights. McCain and Graham are just wrong here.

Normally I'd agree.  But the bar has been set in a low positions this past 14 years.

I really don't understand their argument here.  Labeling him an enemy combatant would be less effective and would violate our laws and principles.  It would only sate our fears and satisfy our desire for revenge.  Is that worth forgoing the intel and violating the Constitution?

Some people think we're in some sort of Holy War. That implies that we should give no quarter. this wasn't a battle, it was a farking cowardly crime. This was a criminal act. Hell, I'd say it was a hate crime.


Agreed. This was Columbine with bombs.
 
2013-04-23 09:59:27 AM  

MyRandomName: Please subby. Decsribe the constitutional authority for drone strikes on american citizens without even minimal court oversight. Liberals seem fine with that one.


You mean this liberal? http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/19/4244048/lindsey-graham-homeland-bat t lefield-domestic-drones
 
2013-04-23 10:02:21 AM  
MyRandomName

Stop trolling. Do something productive and meaningful with your time.
 
2013-04-23 10:03:59 AM  
Lemme shine some light.


If he's designated as an enemy combatant, we must abide by the Geneva Convention rules of engagement.


If he's tried as an American citizen, we can put him to death by capitol punishment.


Any questions?
 
2013-04-23 10:08:30 AM  

GardenWeasel: Darth_Lukecash: Diogenes: Nabb1: I think the Administration made the right call. That said, I don't think they deserve a pat on the back for not completely disregarding the Bill of Rights. McCain and Graham are just wrong here.

Normally I'd agree.  But the bar has been set in a low positions this past 14 years.

I really don't understand their argument here.  Labeling him an enemy combatant would be less effective and would violate our laws and principles.  It would only sate our fears and satisfy our desire for revenge.  Is that worth forgoing the intel and violating the Constitution?

Some people think we're in some sort of Holy War. That implies that we should give no quarter. this wasn't a battle, it was a farking cowardly crime. This was a criminal act. Hell, I'd say it was a hate crime.

Agreed. This was Columbine with bombs

in a city rather than a school.

At Columbine, they used pipe bombs. The body count was also higher, the injury count lower, and it was all contained inside one building, rather than spread over one of the largest metro areas in the country.

"Columbine" is a surprisingly good descriptor, other than that we got one suspect out of the deal, and the motivations are likely different.

// though "social isolation and emotional poisoning" is probably broad enough for both
 
2013-04-23 10:22:29 AM  

The modern day equivalent of the Three Stoogesimages.politico.com

 
2013-04-23 10:23:49 AM  
I was told by prominent FARKers that the GOP studied out their Constitution right after they got elected.
 
2013-04-23 10:23:52 AM  

Flab: Peter von Nostrand: Charge him with his brothers murder. That's it. Don't give him the glory of the bombing charges and subsequent trial

He'd probably walk from that one.  Even if he really did back up over his brother, the court would have a hard time proving that it was that, and not the 563356325 bullet holes, or the bomb that killed him.

But I like your idea.  Charge him with multiple counts of vehicle theft and killing a police officer.  That should be enough to have him rot in a cell for quite some time.


IANAL but I thought that if anyone died while in the commission of a felony then the remaining perpetrator(s) could be charged with his death, regardless of whether he directly caused the death or not.


/ *snert* he said IANAL but
// I like the idea of charging him with his own brothers death
/// terrorist brothers come in twos, slashies come in threes
 
2013-04-23 10:27:38 AM  

SilentStrider: They don't need the Constitution when they have the Bible.


And they don't have to read either one to know what's in it.
 
2013-04-23 10:29:59 AM  

Lord_Baull: I was told by prominent FARKers that the GOP studied out their Constitution right after they got elected.


"their constitution."

they have a special unskewed version. it's not like yours or mine.
 
Displayed 50 of 73 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report