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(The New York Times)   NYT explains why NYC isn't really that expensive after all. Subby nods approvingly while eating $50 take out for one in a $2,200/month studio apartment. Reasonable debate comparing regional costs of living not found to the right   (nytimes.com) divider line 250
    More: Interesting, NYT, New York, per capita incomes, Metropolitan Opera, Wharton School, USDA Organic, young professional, eating  
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6749 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2013 at 10:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-23 08:16:50 AM
Regional 'cost of living' as some sort of basis of radjustment is mostly crap. The reason it costs of a ton of money to live in New York is that living in New York is a 'good' which is in very high demand. Living here is a form of consumption. We don't subsidize consumption, and we don't pity people for consuming.
 
2013-04-23 08:42:00 AM
A pair of sensible, unstylish walking flats from Harry's Shoes can set you back $480.

It's called Zappos,com, look into it.
 
2013-04-23 08:43:01 AM
Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?
 
2013-04-23 08:46:39 AM
$50 take-out for one is a huge exaggeration. A $2,200 studio apartment isn't.
 
2013-04-23 09:13:25 AM

Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?


Mine cost $1,440 when I was living in Hell's Kitchen in 2000. $2,200 doesn't sound that unfeasible, though it does sound high.
 
2013-04-23 09:13:38 AM
I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.
 
2013-04-23 09:29:31 AM

Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?


I had a studio near Penn Station for about $1,500. A 2200 studio is probably in the west village.
 
2013-04-23 09:42:45 AM

James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.


Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11
 
2013-04-23 09:50:00 AM

sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11


Look at this motherfarker:
tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!
 
2013-04-23 09:57:48 AM

James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker. DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


That's fantastic, but that cilantro has to go.

Devil weed.
 
2013-04-23 10:02:43 AM

Rev.K: that cilantro has to go.


Looks like it's got some other elitist roughage in there as well.

Enjoy your fancy sandwich, Mr. Moderator.
 
2013-04-23 10:08:19 AM

sigdiamond2000: Rev.K: that cilantro has to go.

Looks like it's got some other elitist roughage in there as well.

Enjoy your fancy sandwich, Mr. Moderator.


I will.
 
2013-04-23 10:12:19 AM
Didn't we just have this thread yesterday?
 
2013-04-23 10:13:43 AM

Carn: Didn't we just have this thread yesterday?


I've been here for some years now. We have this thread almost every day.
 
2013-04-23 10:17:11 AM
I don't even own a TV!
 
2013-04-23 10:17:17 AM
You do save by not having to have a car.

Not enough to cover a $2200 studio apartment, but it helps some.
 
2013-04-23 10:18:07 AM
Other than apartments, you can get almost everything cheap in NYC.

If you have a rent stabilized apartment, as I did for a decade, Manhattan can be very cheap indeed.
 
2013-04-23 10:18:14 AM
I love Nebraska.
 
2013-04-23 10:18:55 AM

James!: sigdiamond2000: Rev.K: that cilantro has to go.

Looks like it's got some other elitist roughage in there as well.

Enjoy your fancy sandwich, Mr. Moderator.

I will.


quite frankly, the vietnamese have mastered the sandwich.  with a vibrant cuilinary background, molested by the french at just the right age, you have yourself the perfect, most balanced sandwich on earth... and it's on good bread too.

fatty pork, excellent pickles, and... good bread and cilantro.  not sure where this sandwich could be wanting.
 
2013-04-23 10:19:14 AM

James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


Three kinds of pork?  So pot bellied pig, warthog, and NYPD?
 
2013-04-23 10:19:26 AM

DamnYankees: Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?

I had a studio near Penn Station for about $1,500. A 2200 studio is probably in the west village.


2200 seems cheap for the West Village.

i mean, look at this studio apartment for $6000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/1036464-condo-400-west-12th-street- we st-village-new-york
 
2013-04-23 10:19:26 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?

Mine cost $1,440 when I was living in Hell's Kitchen in 2000. $2,200 doesn't sound that unfeasible, though it does sound high.


Just to give you a bit of perspective, that's more than the mortgage + taxes on my modest home on half an acre in a decent neighborhood, *PLUS* two car payments, *PLUS* my gas/electric bill.

And if I ever feel the need for some o' that New Yawk City life, I can easily make a day trip of it (and did a few times for work).

Plus, in this ever-connected World, for the most part, there is no real reason to *LIVE* there, unless you do menial labor:  You don't have to be there to work there.
 
2013-04-23 10:19:34 AM
HAHAHH.

Of course the article is really saying that "If you're wealthy, living in New York is Cheaper for the stuff you're going to buy anyhow" So gourmet grocery stores are cheaper in NY than NOLA or San Diego. Which makes sense - NY has SO MANY wealthy people that their providers can achieve an economy of scale, and the market is large enough to accommodate multiple competing vendors. Both of these factors drive down prices ... on 4$ gourmet cookies and 400$ shoes.

This is very different than saying "They stuff that everyone needs is plentiful and cheap", and I suspect that part of this issue is that with freight cost carrying both expensive small goods and large 'cheap' goods, the small goods can afford to pay a higher freight cost. Additionally, Providing cheap goods has less margin, so new vendors probably want to jump in at the price point where there enough traffic to provide a healthy margin. It's like new apartments : Nobody builds 500$ bedsits. They all build 2500$ luxury apartments.
 
2013-04-23 10:21:40 AM

James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


And at Bahn Mi Saigon, only about $4.50.  I have found that stuff like sushi, imported cheese and the like is cheaper here.  Not to mention places like Century 21, where high end clothing is less than half price.
 
2013-04-23 10:22:08 AM
Screw NYC AND flyover states!

Suburbs 4 Life
 
2013-04-23 10:22:23 AM

James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


Bacon, ham, and porkchops?
 
2013-04-23 10:22:43 AM

pute kisses like a man: James!: sigdiamond2000: Rev.K: that cilantro has to go.

Looks like it's got some other elitist roughage in there as well.

Enjoy your fancy sandwich, Mr. Moderator.

I will.

quite frankly, the vietnamese have mastered the sandwich.  with a vibrant cuilinary background, molested by the french at just the right age, you have yourself the perfect, most balanced sandwich on earth... and it's on good bread too.

fatty pork, excellent pickles, and... good bread and cilantro.  not sure where this sandwich could be wanting.


No bacon?
 
2013-04-23 10:22:45 AM

Rev.K: James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker. DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

That's fantastic, but that cilantro has to go.

Devil weed.


What in the cockadoodle is ci-lantro? 

I got your four basic food groups! Beans, bacon, whisky and lard.
 
2013-04-23 10:23:46 AM

dumbobruni: DamnYankees: Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?

I had a studio near Penn Station for about $1,500. A 2200 studio is probably in the west village.

2200 seems cheap for the West Village.

i mean, look at this studio apartment for $6000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/1036464-condo-400-west-12th-street- we st-village-new-york


Ah, Streeteasy porn. We've all been there.
 
2013-04-23 10:24:28 AM

freewill: Carn: Didn't we just have this thread yesterday?

I've been here for some years now. We have this thread almost every day.


I guess it's better than bronies.
 
2013-04-23 10:25:01 AM
I live in south Georgia, I pay 500 bucks a month for a 1000 square-foot apartment.  In return for my tiny rent, I get to live in a town with no bar, no nightlife, no restaurant variety, and no culture.

When I got my job offer here I thought the pay was pretty lousy, 10% under national average for new hires in my field.  Then I looked up cost of living in the area and realized why it was that low.

The way I look at living in a place like New York, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco (among others) is that despite the high cost of living, at least theres things to do, places to go, and interesting things to eat.
 
2013-04-23 10:25:30 AM
If you ignore all of the necessary expenses, it's pretty affordable. Well, as long as you don't spend your money on luxuries, of course.
 
2013-04-23 10:26:07 AM
I really doubt that most rural farkers live on vast tracts of land like they claim.  Most people live in tract housing out in the boonies and spend most of their day commuting.
 
2013-04-23 10:27:56 AM
This thread again.

NYC - not for everybody.  Living here doesn't make you special.  Living somewhere else doesn't make you special.
 
2013-04-23 10:28:22 AM

rubi_con_man: HAHAHH.

Of course the article is really saying that "If you're wealthy, living in New York is Cheaper for the stuff you're going to buy anyhow" So gourmet grocery stores are cheaper in NY than NOLA or San Diego. Which makes sense - NY has SO MANY wealthy people that their providers can achieve an economy of scale, and the market is large enough to accommodate multiple competing vendors. Both of these factors drive down prices ... on 4$ gourmet cookies and 400$ shoes.

This is very different than saying "They stuff that everyone needs is plentiful and cheap", and I suspect that part of this issue is that with freight cost carrying both expensive small goods and large 'cheap' goods, the small goods can afford to pay a higher freight cost. Additionally, Providing cheap goods has less margin, so new vendors probably want to jump in at the price point where there enough traffic to provide a healthy margin. It's like new apartments : Nobody builds 500$ bedsits. They all build 2500$ luxury apartments.


The vendors also sell more expensive goods because space is expensive for them also.  For example, small grocery items like imported cheese can be cheaper than in the suburbs, but a 2 liter bottle of Coke runs about $2.50 in most grocery stores (there are sales though).  Coke takes more space so the "rent" for that space is more than it is with small items that cost more per unit.  48oz of ice cream is $7-9 regular price, Ben N Jerry's is about $5-7, etc.
 
2013-04-23 10:29:35 AM

Ethertap: I live in south Georgia, I pay 500 bucks a month for a 1000 square-foot apartment.  In return for my tiny rent, I get to live in a town with no bar, no nightlife, no restaurant variety, and no culture.

When I got my job offer here I thought the pay was pretty lousy, 10% under national average for new hires in my field.  Then I looked up cost of living in the area and realized why it was that low.

The way I look at living in a place like New York, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco (among others) is that despite the high cost of living, at least theres things to do, places to go, and interesting things to eat.


If you can't get laid in a town with nothing to do, you're doing it wrong.
 
2013-04-23 10:32:42 AM
I live well in extremely cheap flyover country, and visit NYC often for culture and civilization.  A long weekend of Broadway shows coming up soon.  Best of both worlds.
 
2013-04-23 10:32:48 AM

you have pee hands: You do save by not having to have a car.

Not enough to cover a $2200 studio apartment, but it helps some.


True. Some but not enough. I live 20 miles from work. I have a slightly gas inefficient pair of cars. Monthly gas and insurance is around $250. Additional  miscellaneous maintenance and registration for a year is around $200. Even if it was a $1700 studio, you're still paying $1700 for a studio. If you're the kind of person who is out all the time and only uses their home to sleep, then I can understand something like that. Personally, I'd rather have a house for that kind of cash. Studios around me go for $500-800/month depending on location and quality.
 
2013-04-23 10:33:26 AM
NYC is too much concrete jungle for me and too many people, but I get why people like it.  Here in NoVA, we have good jobs, relatively high cost of living (but nowhere near NYC) and a very good mix of cultural stuff with all the museums, restaurants, sports, bars, etc.  And I have a house with a yard inside the beltway and it didn't put me in the poorhouse.  In conclusion and furthermore
 
2013-04-23 10:34:32 AM
Living in NYC is about the only way that I can plausibly pay down my student loans.  Both my salary and my expenses are twice as high as they would be for the same job/lifestyle in Pittsburgh, and that means the difference between the two is twice as high.  It's actually quite possible to live cheaply in NYC if your intent is financial freedom rather than getting the "experience".

\ $600 for an Upper West Side appartment.
\\ ok, it's w. 144th street.
\\\ with 2 other roommates.
 
2013-04-23 10:35:11 AM

James!: I really doubt that most rural farkers live on vast tracts of land like they claim.  Most people live in tract housing out in the boonies and spend most of their day commuting.


Typical clueless big city elitist. They don't spend most of their day commuting. They're housebound unemployable deadbeats.
 
2013-04-23 10:35:42 AM

Ethertap: I live in south Georgia, I pay 500 bucks a month for a 1000 square-foot apartment.  In return for my tiny rent, I get to live in a town with no bar, no nightlife, no restaurant variety, and no culture.

When I got my job offer here I thought the pay was pretty lousy, 10% under national average for new hires in my field.  Then I looked up cost of living in the area and realized why it was that low.

The way I look at living in a place like New York, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco (among others) is that despite the high cost of living, at least theres things to do, places to go, and interesting things to eat.


That's a healthy way to look at it- South Georgia has it's virtues as well.  It probably is pretty stable, the people are nice, and the "family values" (the good kind, not the Republican kind) are pretty strong.

For me, the most important virtue of NYC is the people I meet.  I've met people from all over the Earth, from all backgrounds, educational level from high school drop out to Rhodes Scholars, income from welfare recipients to people that make tens of millions every year.  You're not going to get that kind of mix anywhere else.  That isn't important to many and that's fine, but it's important to me and what makes it worth the money.

I'm tired of a lot of these posts (not yours) saying "I pay $200/month for 60 acres and a 27-bedroom house hurrrrrr" because they miss the point.  NYC fits me, where other people live fits them.  I could no longer live in South Georgia than many people can live in NYC.  And that's fine.
 
2013-04-23 10:37:44 AM

sigdiamond2000: James!: I really doubt that most rural farkers live on vast tracts of land like they claim.  Most people live in tract housing out in the boonies and spend most of their day commuting.

Typical clueless big city elitist. They don't spend most of their day commuting. They're housebound unemployable deadbeats.


I'm sorry, yes.  They spend most of their day waiting for the fire department to cut a hole in the wall and remove them via fork lift so they can be deposited in their check-out cage at the Super Walmart.
 
2013-04-23 10:38:46 AM
Came from the woods of NY (town of mouth breathers, nearest Taco Bell is in Canada), pay 1600/mo for a three bedroom with a backyard (not much of one, but I can grill) AND a parking space. City life can be done right if you don't have to live in Brooklyn with the fixed gear crowd.
 
2013-04-23 10:38:50 AM

jfivealive: James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

Three kinds of pork?  So pot bellied pig, warthog, and NYPD?


I'm pretty sure I see congressional pork in there.
 
2013-04-23 10:39:48 AM

James!: I really doubt that most rural farkers live on vast tracts of land like they claim.  Most people live in tract housing out in the boonies and spend most of their day commuting.


What do you consider vast tracts of land?

imageshack.us
 
2013-04-23 10:40:57 AM
I worked in Mid-Town for 5 years, and I found NY to be very reasonable in terms of cost.  Of course, I was there every other week and my company put me in one of their "condos" at the Waldorf Astoria.  And naturally I had an expense account so I rarely paid for any of those $400 bar tabs or $900 client dinners.  So what's the problem?
 
2013-04-23 10:41:14 AM
This farking thread again? We had this yesterday.

James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


You go to Baoguette somewhere in the city? Every try Num Pang on 25th and Broadway? The sandwiches are smaller, but their pork belly ban mhi is amazing.
 
2013-04-23 10:43:52 AM

Molavian: Ethertap: I live in south Georgia, I pay 500 bucks a month for a 1000 square-foot apartment.  In return for my tiny rent, I get to live in a town with no bar, no nightlife, no restaurant variety, and no culture.

When I got my job offer here I thought the pay was pretty lousy, 10% under national average for new hires in my field.  Then I looked up cost of living in the area and realized why it was that low.

The way I look at living in a place like New York, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco (among others) is that despite the high cost of living, at least theres things to do, places to go, and interesting things to eat.

If you can't get laid in a town with nothing to do, you're doing it wrong.


Yes....but in towns like that, the question is...."laid...by *what*?!?"
 
2013-04-23 10:44:04 AM
Chicago FTW. Virtually everything NYC has at half the cost.

/1200 for a brand new gut rehab 1br, and I'm really overpaying compared to my neighbors.
//not getting into the pizza debate
 
2013-04-23 10:44:08 AM

Rev.K: James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker. DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

That's fantastic, but that cilantro has to go.

Devil weed.


This.

Maybe we can turn this into a cilantro hater thread. The NYC hater thread was yesterday.
 
2013-04-23 10:44:23 AM

Algebrat: Living in NYC is about the only way that I can plausibly pay down my student loans.  Both my salary and my expenses are twice as high as they would be for the same job/lifestyle in Pittsburgh, and that means the difference between the two is twice as high.  It's actually quite possible to live cheaply in NYC if your intent is financial freedom rather than getting the "experience".

\ $600 for an Upper West Side appartment.
\\ ok, it's w. 144th street.
\\\ with 2 other roommates.


Northern Harlem/The Heights is getting big - you guys should buy that shiat if you can
 
2013-04-23 10:44:50 AM

Bloody William: This farking thread again? We had this yesterday.

James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

You go to Baoguette somewhere in the city? Every try Num Pang on 25th and Broadway? The sandwiches are smaller, but their pork belly ban mhi is amazing.


Henry's in Park Slope is my go to.
 
2013-04-23 10:46:53 AM

Algebrat: Living in NYC is about the only way that I can plausibly pay down my student loans.  Both my salary and my expenses are twice as high as they would be for the same job/lifestyle in Pittsburgh, and that means the difference between the two is twice as high.  It's actually quite possible to live cheaply in NYC if your intent is financial freedom rather than getting the "experience".

\ $600 for an Upper West Side appartment.
\\ ok, it's w. 144th street.
\\\ with 2 other roommates.


That's how I feel about it too. If I can live in an expensive place on 80% of a high salary that is going to leave me a lot more fun money than living off of 80% of bupkis. There's a reason Australians ($14.38 minimum wage) travel more than Alabamans.
 
2013-04-23 10:47:10 AM

Longtime Lurker: Chicago FTW. Virtually everything NYC has at half the cost.

/1200 for a brand new gut rehab 1br, and I'm really overpaying compared to my neighbors.
//not getting into the pizza debate


with similar salaries for most jobs.
 
2013-04-23 10:49:19 AM

CtrlAltDestroy: True. Some but not enough. I live 20 miles from work. I have a slightly gas inefficient pair of cars. Monthly gas and insurance is around $250. Additional miscellaneous maintenance and registration for a year is around $200. Even if it was a $1700 studio, you're still paying $1700 for a studio. If you're the kind of person who is out all the time and only uses their home to sleep, then I can understand something like that. Personally, I'd rather have a house for that kind of cash. Studios around me go for $500-800/month depending on location and quality.


You could probably add in a couple hundred a month for the amortized costs of the cars themselves, too.  Even if they're paid off now they were paid for at some point.  Someone who likes working on cars could mostly avoid that by exclusively buying old beaters and nursing them along as long as possible but most people won't do that.

Of course the downside of that is that you don't have a car, but NYC is one of the few places in the US it's easier to get around on public transit than by driving and it's simpler to rent on the occasions you do need a car than own one and deal with keeping it somewhere.

I think too many people ignore transportation costs when looking at housing - they're tied together.  It's obviously still cheaper to live in a rural area, though.
 
2013-04-23 10:49:43 AM

Job Creator: pute kisses like a man: James!: sigdiamond2000: Rev.K: that cilantro has to go.

Looks like it's got some other elitist roughage in there as well.

Enjoy your fancy sandwich, Mr. Moderator.

I will.

quite frankly, the vietnamese have mastered the sandwich.  with a vibrant cuilinary background, molested by the french at just the right age, you have yourself the perfect, most balanced sandwich on earth... and it's on good bread too.

fatty pork, excellent pickles, and... good bread and cilantro.  not sure where this sandwich could be wanting.

No bacon?


well, american bacon is from the pork belly.  the pork bahn mis that I have had include pork belly.  so, it may not have been prepared like american bacon, but it's the same cut.  therefore, I say, it has bacon.
 
2013-04-23 10:51:47 AM

skullkrusher: Algebrat: Living in NYC is about the only way that I can plausibly pay down my student loans.  Both my salary and my expenses are twice as high as they would be for the same job/lifestyle in Pittsburgh, and that means the difference between the two is twice as high.  It's actually quite possible to live cheaply in NYC if your intent is financial freedom rather than getting the "experience".

\ $600 for an Upper West Side appartment.
\\ ok, it's w. 144th street.
\\\ with 2 other roommates.

Northern Harlem/The Heights is getting big - you guys should buy that shiat if you can


Thought about it, but by the time I have my loans paid off, I doubt it will be in my price range.  56k to go.  132k four years ago, so a bit under two more years should do it.
 
2013-04-23 10:53:29 AM

James!: I really doubt that most rural farkers live on vast tracts of land like they claim.  Most people live in tract housing out in the boonies and spend most of their day commuting.


I live about a half a mile from my workplace. It's a large corner lot (probably 1/4 acre) in the middle of town, across from the public library. I paid 103K for the 1300 sq foot home.

You may be right. My evidence is anecdotal. Although I wouldn't ever say my corner lot is a "vast tract of land". Although, around here you can get about 5 acres for 12K. It's about six miles outside the city.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Leisure-Ln_Scottsbl uf f_NE_69361_M86110-46410?row=68
 
2013-04-23 10:53:35 AM

Algebrat: skullkrusher: Algebrat: Living in NYC is about the only way that I can plausibly pay down my student loans.  Both my salary and my expenses are twice as high as they would be for the same job/lifestyle in Pittsburgh, and that means the difference between the two is twice as high.  It's actually quite possible to live cheaply in NYC if your intent is financial freedom rather than getting the "experience".

\ $600 for an Upper West Side appartment.
\\ ok, it's w. 144th street.
\\\ with 2 other roommates.

Northern Harlem/The Heights is getting big - you guys should buy that shiat if you can

Thought about it, but by the time I have my loans paid off, I doubt it will be in my price range.  56k to go.  132k four years ago, so a bit under two more years should do it.


debt cut by more than half in 4 years? Not bad. Good luck. You probably have a few more years before the prices get out of hand. It's up and coming but I think a lot of people are still a little leery of moving that far north. I'm trying to convince the wife we should move to Inwood. You can buy a 4 BR house with a garage for like $600k there.
 
2013-04-23 10:53:56 AM

Longtime Lurker: Chicago FTW. Virtually everything NYC has at half the cost.

/1200 for a brand new gut rehab 1br, and I'm really overpaying compared to my neighbors.
//not getting into the pizza debate


Right, that's pretty much what I pointed out in the last thread. It isn't "New York vs. bumblefark, AR." It's that New York is incredibly expensive even when compared to other major cities in America.

New York City is a wonderful place. I have friends that live there and love it. But it isn't worth paying twice what you would pay in Chicago, Seattle, Boston etc.
 
2013-04-23 10:54:38 AM

Rev.K: James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker. DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

That's fantastic, but that cilantro has to go.

Devil weed.


Try coriander instead.
 
2013-04-23 10:55:03 AM
You flatlanders / flyovers are just jealous losers of us big city dwellers.

You make 30% less money, but your house is only 100% larger than our apartment.

You may have your own car, but I get to spend 35 minutes commuting to work each way compared to your 7 minute drive.

And you'll never know the joy of having overpriced food delivered to your apartment.

// amidoingitright?
 
2013-04-23 10:56:00 AM
$1900 for 1 bedroom on 109th btwn broadway and riverside.
$2600 for 1 bedroom that can be converted to a 2 bedroom on 19th and 2nd ave.

Studio's are generally overpriced in NYC, and I believe that prices will decline in a few years.
 
2013-04-23 10:57:14 AM

travoltron: Came from the woods of NY (town of mouth breathers, nearest Taco Bell is in Canada), pay 1600/mo for a three bedroom with a backyard (not much of one, but I can grill) AND a parking space. City life can be done right if you don't have to live in Brooklyn with the fixed gear crowd.


Hate to say it, but rural upstate New York is some of the worst rural in the industrialized world. It's pretty out there and there are also lots of normal, happy, pleasant people, but holy shiat, you'll also meet some of the most isolated, pig-ignorant, toothless motherfarkers you can find in this country, and they're extremely bitter about it, resenting Syracuse and the other "big cities" *cough* and complaining about the evil influences of SUNY bringing in outsiders. I grew up in the rural midwest, but we still had the internet and flew on airplanes, for fark's sake.

Longtime Lurker: Chicago FTW. Virtually everything NYC has at half the cost.
 
/1200 for a brand new gut rehab 1br, and I'm really overpaying compared to my neighbors.
//not getting into the pizza debate


Also, this.
 
2013-04-23 10:57:37 AM

James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


We get those quite often from various places in the Chicago region.  The one's we get are only about $3 or $4, but don't usually have as much portion as shown in that pic.  This place, Pho Ha, in Glendale Heights is awesome BTW.  Really.

http://www.themenudrawer.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view& id =291&Itemid=101

My wife wouldn't go there if the food wasn't consistently as good or better than what she can cook at home, and she cooks awesome shiat.  When we first met - "I good cook, I show you".  (her engrish is a little better now)
 
2013-04-23 10:58:44 AM

DayDreamingD: $1900 for 1 bedroom on 109th btwn broadway and riverside.
$2600 for 1 bedroom that can be converted to a 2 bedroom on 19th and 2nd ave.

Studio's are generally overpriced in NYC, and I believe that prices will decline in a few years.


There aren't really any 'real' studios left.  The real studios have been converted to '1br' by the landlords putting up a shiatty fake wall.  With the 1br designation they can charge 25%-50% more per month.
 
2013-04-23 10:59:11 AM

Big_Fat_Liar: James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

We get those quite often from various places in the Chicago region.  The one's we get are only about $3 or $4, but don't usually have as much portion as shown in that pic.  This place, Pho Ha, in Glendale Heights is awesome BTW.  Really.

http://www.themenudrawer.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view& id =291&Itemid=101

My wife wouldn't go there if the food wasn't consistently as good or better than what she can cook at home, and she cooks awesome shiat.  When we first met - "I good cook, I show you".  (her engrish is a little better now)


Just to be clear I got a lot more than just the sandwich for $23.  The sandwich is just my favorite part.
 
2013-04-23 11:01:59 AM

hiker9999: Molavian: Ethertap: I live in south Georgia, I pay 500 bucks a month for a 1000 square-foot apartment.  In return for my tiny rent, I get to live in a town with no bar, no nightlife, no restaurant variety, and no culture.

When I got my job offer here I thought the pay was pretty lousy, 10% under national average for new hires in my field.  Then I looked up cost of living in the area and realized why it was that low.

The way I look at living in a place like New York, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco (among others) is that despite the high cost of living, at least theres things to do, places to go, and interesting things to eat.

If you can't get laid in a town with nothing to do, you're doing it wrong.

Yes....but in towns like that, the question is...."laid...by *what*?!?"


shiat, one chick I dated looked like a super model and her greatest aspirations in life included "leather furniture" and "car that wasn't rusted".
 
2013-04-23 11:04:29 AM

Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?


This. Try at least double.
 
Nib
2013-04-23 11:04:53 AM
yea and my $4000 a year liability auto insurance is cheap as well.

/clean record
//under 30 male
 
2013-04-23 11:05:16 AM

DamnYankees: Regional 'cost of living' as some sort of basis of radjustment is mostly crap. The reason it costs of a ton of money to live in New York is that living in New York is a 'good' which is in very high demand. Living here is a form of consumption. We don't subsidize consumption, and we don't pity people for consuming.


0 to D-bag in 5 seconds.

\Well done
 
2013-04-23 11:05:36 AM

skullkrusher: Algebrat: skullkrusher: Algebrat: Living in NYC is about the only way that I can plausibly pay down my student loans.  Both my salary and my expenses are twice as high as they would be for the same job/lifestyle in Pittsburgh, and that means the difference between the two is twice as high.  It's actually quite possible to live cheaply in NYC if your intent is financial freedom rather than getting the "experience".

\ $600 for an Upper West Side appartment.
\\ ok, it's w. 144th street.
\\\ with 2 other roommates.

Northern Harlem/The Heights is getting big - you guys should buy that shiat if you can

Thought about it, but by the time I have my loans paid off, I doubt it will be in my price range.  56k to go.  132k four years ago, so a bit under two more years should do it.

debt cut by more than half in 4 years? Not bad. Good luck. You probably have a few more years before the prices get out of hand. It's up and coming but I think a lot of people are still a little leery of moving that far north. I'm trying to convince the wife we should move to Inwood. You can buy a 4 BR house with a garage for like $600k there.


Heh, good luck with that.  My girlfriend is more than happy to visit, but I'd never convince her to actually live up there.  She's down in Stuy Town, paying $1,280 for a place with two roommates of her own.  It's quite nice, a little green oasis in the city, if you don't mind how far East it is.  Or the fact that she's paying more than twice as much as I am for the same space.
 
2013-04-23 11:06:20 AM

freewill: travoltron: Came from the woods of NY (town of mouth breathers, nearest Taco Bell is in Canada), pay 1600/mo for a three bedroom with a backyard (not much of one, but I can grill) AND a parking space. City life can be done right if you don't have to live in Brooklyn with the fixed gear crowd.

Hate to say it, but rural upstate New York is some of the worst rural in the industrialized world. It's pretty out there and there are also lots of normal, happy, pleasant people, but holy shiat, you'll also meet some of the most isolated, pig-ignorant, toothless motherfarkers you can find in this country, and they're extremely bitter about it, resenting Syracuse and the other "big cities" *cough* and complaining about the evil influences of SUNY bringing in outsiders. I grew up in the rural midwest, but we still had the internet and flew on airplanes, for fark's sake.


So you've been to my hometown. Good for you for making it out alive. It's the land where dreams go to die.
 
2013-04-23 11:08:04 AM

odinsposse: Longtime Lurker: Chicago FTW. Virtually everything NYC has at half the cost.

/1200 for a brand new gut rehab 1br, and I'm really overpaying compared to my neighbors.
//not getting into the pizza debate

Right, that's pretty much what I pointed out in the last thread. It isn't "New York vs. bumblefark, AR." It's that New York is incredibly expensive even when compared to other major cities in America.

New York City is a wonderful place. I have friends that live there and love it. But it isn't worth paying twice what you would pay in Chicago, Seattle, Boston etc.


Something that I don't think is brought up enough in threads like this: It's not like everyone here is a transplant who might go elsewhere on cost alone. For a lot of us the area is home and our family/friends are mostly here. That does mean a lot.

/ok, so I'm from Long Island, but the city's always felt more right for me
//it's an easy train ride back to the family
 
2013-04-23 11:08:19 AM

James!: Big_Fat_Liar: James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

We get those quite often from various places in the Chicago region.  The one's we get are only about $3 or $4, but don't usually have as much portion as shown in that pic.  This place, Pho Ha, in Glendale Heights is awesome BTW.  Really.

http://www.themenudrawer.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view& id =291&Itemid=101

My wife wouldn't go there if the food wasn't consistently as good or better than what she can cook at home, and she cooks awesome shiat.  When we first met - "I good cook, I show you".  (her engrish is a little better now)

Just to be clear I got a lot more than just the sandwich for $23.  The sandwich is just my favorite part.


Oh, I figured you did!  NYC isn't THAT expensive.  I think it's still cheaper than eating at Disney World...
 
2013-04-23 11:08:55 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?

Mine cost $1,440 when I was living in Hell's Kitchen in 2000. $2,200 doesn't sound that unfeasible, though it does sound high.


In 2008, my rent was approx $2300 in the UES and I had a studio duplex. Although admittedly the bottom floor of the studio was in the basement (no windows) it did give me some extra square footage most other studios don't have. I work in Manhattan's rental market - in the  UWS you can find a studio reasonably for $2200 - although it will be small and in a walk up building and no amenities.  I pay only a bit above that in mortgage and maintenance for a large 2 bed/2ba in Queens now. If you are willing to go a bit higher into Harlem or East Harlem you can find a very nice 1 bedroom in that budget though. It won't be lux, but you'll have significantly more space.

I rent 200sf studios on Clinton street in a walk up building for approx $2k/mo. They are renovated, but the LES is getting insane with prices.

Regarding the article though, I remember in one of my anthro classes studying "garbology" (literally, people's garbage) and it was found that low income people were far more likely to buy brand name (and higher cost) food items, like Doritos or Cheerios than were their wealthier counterparts, who were far more likely to buy non-brand items, like "Key Food brand cheese chips" (aka doritos). The theory is that lower income people use name brand store items as a class marker, as spending an extra 50 cents is pretty much what defines the poor from the really poor, whereas wealthier people don't make the distinction and therefore have no preference as to which food brand they purchase.
 
2013-04-23 11:12:22 AM
farm1.staticflickr.com
 
2013-04-23 11:14:25 AM

you have pee hands: You do save by not having to have a car.

Not enough to cover a $2200 studio apartment, but it helps some.


I just did some rough calculations on my cost of having a car for the last 18 years:

Price paid: $16000
Miles driven: 179,000
Fuel economy: ~24 MPG
Fuel used: 179,000/24 = 7500 gallons (rounded up)
Fuel cost: $3/gallon (another estimate, price has changed a lot in 18 years) * 7500 = $22,500
Insurance paid: $4000 (estimate average of ~$200/per year, rounded up, paid $130 last year)
Oil changes: ~$30/year * 18 = $540
Tires: estimate 1 set every 2 years at $400/set (high estimate) * 9 = $3600
Maint & repairs: $2000 (high estimate, actually did all my own mechanic work)

Total: $48640
Annual cost: $2700
Weekly cost: $52
Daily cost: ~$7.40

Probably riddled with errors, but there it is, for whatever it's worth.
 
2013-04-23 11:14:31 AM
I'm happy where I'm at. You're happy where you're at. It's all good.
 
2013-04-23 11:15:41 AM
Not going to read the thread for a bit, but I assume there is already some variation of "sure, it's cheaper to live elsewhere, if you call that living." NYC is home to a lot of paradoxically provincial people.
 
2013-04-23 11:16:13 AM

Fano: NYC is home to a lot of paradoxically provincial people.


What's paradoxical about it?
 
2013-04-23 11:21:39 AM
My Dad pays $0 a month in rent and lives in an unheated trailer behind my grandmother's house in rural southern central Michigan, subsisting on ditch weed, Monarch cigarettes, Steel Reserve, and Vikings.

He's got it made. He doesn't understand how all you fools can stand big city livin'.
 
2013-04-23 11:21:56 AM
Archie Bunker knew how to fix this.

Archie: "Did you find a place to live yet?"
Meathead: "No.  Everything is too expensive."
Archie:  "Did you try Jersey?"
Meathead: "I hate Jersey."
Archie: "So do the people in Jersey, but somebody has to live there."
 
2013-04-23 11:22:28 AM
I was skeptical of the article when I read this:
"the typical resident here pays roughly the same share of her income in rent as does her counterpart in      Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia and Houston, according to N.Y.U.'s Furman Center for Real Estate and Urban Policy."
because housing in Houston is relatively inexpensive. But then on the 2nd page there's this:
"But places like Houston are cheap - and staying cheap, even as they grow - because the local governments have realized their comparative advantage is in deregulation, not in fancy cookies."
 
2013-04-23 11:22:29 AM
Jacksonville FTW! I pay $2200 a month for a 3 bedroom condo right on the river with a private dock and a boat lift.
 
2013-04-23 11:23:47 AM
nbcprosoccertalk.files.wordpress.com
"Hey, Thierry, do you know why does Red Bull come in cans?"

www.topnews.in
"No, why, Jimmy?"

www.sportsvuesoccer.com
"Because they don't have any Cups."

injuryleague.com

www.mlssoccer.com
 
2013-04-23 11:24:01 AM

Sybarite: A pair of sensible, unstylish walking flats from Harry's Shoes can set you back $480.

It's called Zappos,com, look into it.


LOL!!! Exactly sister!!!
 
2013-04-23 11:24:22 AM

Job Creator: James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


And according to one of my former coworkers, if you read mandarin, apparently one of those kinds of pork is 'dog', but that's probably not really true.

And at Bahn Mi Saigon, only about $4.50.  I have found that stuff like sushi, imported cheese and the like is cheaper here.  Not to mention places like Century 21, where high end clothing is less than half price.

Banh Mi Saigon, I order Banh Mi Ga extra extra extra spicy.

Banh Mi Saigon, an example of capitalism in action.  It looks like it started in the back of a jade jewelry store on Mott St, and basically took over the foot traffic due to popularity.
 
2013-04-23 11:24:48 AM

Algebrat: skullkrusher: Algebrat: skullkrusher: Algebrat: Living in NYC is about the only way that I can plausibly pay down my student loans.  Both my salary and my expenses are twice as high as they would be for the same job/lifestyle in Pittsburgh, and that means the difference between the two is twice as high.  It's actually quite possible to live cheaply in NYC if your intent is financial freedom rather than getting the "experience".

\ $600 for an Upper West Side appartment.
\\ ok, it's w. 144th street.
\\\ with 2 other roommates.

Northern Harlem/The Heights is getting big - you guys should buy that shiat if you can

Thought about it, but by the time I have my loans paid off, I doubt it will be in my price range.  56k to go.  132k four years ago, so a bit under two more years should do it.

debt cut by more than half in 4 years? Not bad. Good luck. You probably have a few more years before the prices get out of hand. It's up and coming but I think a lot of people are still a little leery of moving that far north. I'm trying to convince the wife we should move to Inwood. You can buy a 4 BR house with a garage for like $600k there.

Heh, good luck with that.  My girlfriend is more than happy to visit, but I'd never convince her to actually live up there.  She's down in Stuy Town, paying $1,280 for a place with two roommates of her own.  It's quite nice, a little green oasis in the city, if you don't mind how far East it is.  Or the fact that she's paying more than twice as much as I am for the same space.


farking Stuy Town man... friend of mine's dad got her in there back in the waiting list days. I think she's still paying under $2k for a 2 BR
 
2013-04-23 11:27:28 AM

pute kisses like a man: James!: sigdiamond2000: Rev.K: that cilantro has to go.

Looks like it's got some other elitist roughage in there as well.

Enjoy your fancy sandwich, Mr. Moderator.

I will.

quite frankly, the vietnamese have mastered the sandwich.  with a vibrant cuilinary background, molested by the french at just the right age, you have yourself the perfect, most balanced sandwich on earth... and it's on good bread too.

fatty pork, excellent pickles, and... good bread and cilantro.  not sure where this sandwich could be wanting.


My flyover state has a vibrant Vietnamese presence and yes, the people as a culture have taken the best of their traditional cuisine and melded it with the best of French cuisine - also evidenced by their ability to take a farking baguette and make it fantastic.   Oh, and they have some heartbreakingly beautiful women.
 
2013-04-23 11:27:43 AM

RatOmeter: you have pee hands: You do save by not having to have a car.

Not enough to cover a $2200 studio apartment, but it helps some.

I just did some rough calculations on my cost of having a car for the last 18 years:

Price paid: $16000
Miles driven: 179,000
Fuel economy: ~24 MPG
Fuel used: 179,000/24 = 7500 gallons (rounded up)
Fuel cost: $3/gallon (another estimate, price has changed a lot in 18 years) * 7500 = $22,500
Insurance paid: $4000 (estimate average of ~$200/per year, rounded up, paid $130 last year)
Oil changes: ~$30/year * 18 = $540
Tires: estimate 1 set every 2 years at $400/set (high estimate) * 9 = $3600
Maint & repairs: $2000 (high estimate, actually did all my own mechanic work)

Total: $48640
Annual cost: $2700
Weekly cost: $52
Daily cost: ~$7.40

Probably riddled with errors, but there it is, for whatever it's worth.


Not having to use urine scented public transportation:  PRICELESS!
 
2013-04-23 11:27:57 AM
College towns are the way to go.  I live downtown in a three bedroom home with a $750/month mortgage, walk to work, get to see ACC basketball, football, and baseball, usually for free or dirt cheap.  Also get up-and-coming bands in town to play to all the college kids.  And a constantly churning supply of 18-26 year old women really tips the dating dynamic in the men's favor.  Best of both worlds.
 
2013-04-23 11:28:01 AM
Article makes a big deal of how the 'average price for' something is higher in places other than NYC. Yeah, the 'average price' for a manicure is higher in a smaller town, because everyone charges the same. But NYC, you could find a manicure for $5 in the wrong corner of town, compared to the several places charging over $100. Enough of the former offsets the average. Alternatively I can believe that certain foodstuff is cheaper in NYC than the mid-west. They have a port, lots of fresh food comes in there. The cost for me to get unfrozen sea food or ripe fruit from Africa is going to be higher because of the transportation cost. But my grocery bill is lower, because I don't buy that stuff! Vegies at my farmers market were 1/10th the price of what the grocery store charged the last time I went to NYC...their farmers market was cheaper than their groceries, but not as cheap as buying it at the farm here.
 
2013-04-23 11:28:06 AM

travoltron: So you've been to my hometown. Good for you for making it out alive. It's the land where dreams go to die.


I live in Binghamton, dude.

To some of these unfortunates, I may as well live in opulence in Hong Kong because my power stays on after a strong wind.

idsfa: [farm1.staticflickr.com image 500x323]


Saved.
 
2013-04-23 11:28:31 AM
You know, I've lived happily in DC for over 15 years.  But the siren song of New York is hard to overcome.
 
2013-04-23 11:29:37 AM

Lollipop165: PC LOAD LETTER: Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?

Mine cost $1,440 when I was living in Hell's Kitchen in 2000. $2,200 doesn't sound that unfeasible, though it does sound high.

In 2008, my rent was approx $2300 in the UES and I had a studio duplex. Although admittedly the bottom floor of the studio was in the basement (no windows) it did give me some extra square footage most other studios don't have. I work in Manhattan's rental market - in the  UWS you can find a studio reasonably for $2200 - although it will be small and in a walk up building and no amenities.  I pay only a bit above that in mortgage and maintenance for a large 2 bed/2ba in Queens now. If you are willing to go a bit higher into Harlem or East Harlem you can find a very nice 1 bedroom in that budget though. It won't be lux, but you'll have significantly more space.

I rent 200sf studios on Clinton street in a walk up building for approx $2k/mo. They are renovated, but the LES is getting insane with prices.

Regarding the article though, I remember in one of my anthro classes studying "garbology" (literally, people's garbage) and it was found that low income people were far more likely to buy brand name (and higher cost) food items, like Doritos or Cheerios than were their wealthier counterparts, who were far more likely to buy non-brand items, like "Key Food brand cheese chips" (aka doritos). The theory is that lower income people use name brand store items as a class marker, as spending an extra 50 cents is pretty much what defines the poor from the really poor, whereas wealthier people don't make the distinction and therefore have no preference as to which food brand they purchase.


So that is an observation without performing interviews?  That seems like studying elephant dung.  They're humans, ask questions!  I suspect the answer you'd get from them is "I dunno".  And "I dunno" = mesmerized to buy whatever the glowing box tells them to.
 
2013-04-23 11:31:00 AM

James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


So you're saying your milking city, state and federal funds?
 
2013-04-23 11:31:12 AM

freewill: Hate to say it, but rural upstate New York is some of the worst rural in the industrialized world. It's pretty out there and there are also lots of normal, happy, pleasant people, but holy shiat, you'll also meet some of the most isolated, pig-ignorant, toothless motherfarkers you can find in this country, and they're extremely bitter about it, resenting Syracuse and the other "big cities" *cough* and complaining about the evil influences of SUNY bringing in outsiders. I grew up in the rural midwest, but we still had the internet and flew on airplanes, for fark's sake.


grew up in upstate NY myself, and you're pretty much spot on.
 
2013-04-23 11:31:39 AM

Ethertap: The way I look at living in a place like New York, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco (among others) is that despite the high cost of living, at least theres things to do, places to go, and interesting things to eat.


I've been around long enough to know that there is a myth about how much better cities are for these things than being outside. London people are dreadful for thinking that the civilised world ends at Chiswick.

I live 80 miles west of London and I go and regularly see theatre, ballet, opera, live concerts and bands in Oxford, Bath or Bristol. I've got 2 restaurants within 20 miles that have 2 Michelin stars, pubs that get fish landed freshly from Cornwall each day, and one of the most highly renowned Japanese restaurants in the UK not far from me. Even shopping is no big deal now. I used to travel for coffee, books, music and wine, but I get it delivered now.
 
2013-04-23 11:32:03 AM

you have pee hands: You could probably add in a couple hundred a month for the amortized costs of the cars themselves, too.  Even if they're paid off now they were paid for at some point.  Someone who likes working on cars could mostly avoid that by exclusively buying old beaters and nursing them along as long as possible but most people won't do that.


Yeah, if you have a car payment then you need to factor in the payment and increased minimum insurance. But the cost isn't purely a housing cost for everyone. Some people enjoy driving and working on cars. So the cost of a car is part of entertainment or luxury or what have you.

A vehicle also affords A LOT of freedom. There's no ties to bus/train time schedules. Or worrying about missing the last train of the night. Or having to wonder or figure out if the available transportation is will where you want it to go. I have 2 cars and 3 motorcycles. I enjoy driving/riding and working on motorized toys.

I used to know a guy who insisted on living downtown. Which seemed to make him happy, so good for him. He jumped to a new apartment every year. He didn't own a car. I asked him why. He at me confused and said that didn't need one because he could walk or take public transit. But he still bummed rides from people 4-5 times a week. Then he slipped on ice in the winter and broke his ankle. Good luck walking around everywhere in the winter with a broken ankle, friend. He was also a vegan, only listened to unknown music artists, had no tv, and loved Apple products. But he insisted that he wasn't a hipster. Oi.
 
2013-04-23 11:32:51 AM

sigdiamond2000: elitist roughage


All the better to take a nice, big, elitist shiat.
 
2013-04-23 11:34:12 AM
FTA "...it turns out that living in New York is actually a relative bargain for the wealthy."

Well, that's a relief.
 
2013-04-23 11:34:16 AM

DamnYankees: Regional 'cost of living' as some sort of basis of radjustment is mostly crap. The reason it costs of a ton of money to live in New York is that living in New York is a 'good' which is in very high demand. Living here is a form of consumption. We don't subsidize consumption, and we don't pity people for consuming.


Subsidizing New Yorkers is the price we pay for keeping them in New York.
 
2013-04-23 11:36:24 AM

dumbobruni: DamnYankees: Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?

I had a studio near Penn Station for about $1,500. A 2200 studio is probably in the west village.

2200 seems cheap for the West Village.

i mean, look at this studio apartment for $6000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/1036464-condo-400-west-12th-street- we st-village-new-york


I've never understood these kinds of rents, even if you're rich why would you pay that much?, seems like it would be cheaper to buy a place outside the city and hire a helicopter to fly you to work and back.
 
2013-04-23 11:37:11 AM

dumbobruni: Longtime Lurker: Chicago FTW. Virtually everything NYC has at half the cost.

/1200 for a brand new gut rehab 1br, and I'm really overpaying compared to my neighbors.
//not getting into the pizza debate

with similar salaries for most jobs.


Well I'm a medical resident, so that's one of the downsides. Residents have some of the lower salary/cost of living ratios in the country. Also once I get through training, it's sad that salaries rise exponentially the farther away from the city core you get. A guy who graduated from my program was pulling down 2x as much pay to work in Aurora than another graduate who stayed in the city doing the same job with more hours.
 
2013-04-23 11:37:32 AM
New York is the cheapest city I've ever lived in OTHER than the rent. The rent is crazy, but the abundance of free entertainment, cheap food, and great public transportation do cut down the costs a ton.
 
2013-04-23 11:38:40 AM

freewill: travoltron: Came from the woods of NY (town of mouth breathers, nearest Taco Bell is in Canada), pay 1600/mo for a three bedroom with a backyard (not much of one, but I can grill) AND a parking space. City life can be done right if you don't have to live in Brooklyn with the fixed gear crowd.

Hate to say it, but rural upstate New York is some of the worst rural in the industrialized world. It's pretty out there and there are also lots of normal, happy, pleasant people, but holy shiat, you'll also meet some of the most isolated, pig-ignorant, toothless motherfarkers you can find in this country, and they're extremely bitter about it, resenting Syracuse and the other "big cities" *cough* and complaining about the evil influences of SUNY bringing in outsiders. I grew up in the rural midwest, but we still had the internet and flew on airplanes, for fark's sake.



I live in rural upstate, and in a way you're right. The town I live in isn't really that bad, but I moved here 11 years ago from a small city and do find I miss living in the suburbs of a city rather than the middle of nowhere.

Where I live is where people from Long Island, Sag Harbor, (etc.), and New Jersey have vacation homes. Lots of them. Many of them can be real pains in the arse with the attitudes. I have vacation home  "neighbors" (a couple of acres away), from New Jersey and they're o.k., but for the most part a lot of them don't know how to behave in a small town. They can be loud, obnoxious, sometimes picking fights, and could really care less if you're trying to fish while they're zipping around on their jet skis. Because...you know...out of the whole 40 acre lake the best part to jet ski on is right where you're fishing.

Don't even get me started on "city hunters"...I put orange bandannas on the dogs and a red flag on my car. Once my friend's pool was shot.
 
2013-04-23 11:38:50 AM

DamnYankees: Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?

I had a studio near Penn Station for about $1,500. A 2200 studio is probably in the west village.


In the west village it will be a teeny tiny apartment.  I've seen 500sq foot one bedrooms.  On the flip side you can find 1200sq ft 2 bedroom in upper Manhattan in gentrified neighborhoods that are about a 15 minute train ride to Midtown.
 
2013-04-23 11:39:17 AM

skullkrusher: farking Stuy Town man... friend of mine's dad got her in there back in the waiting list days. I think she's still paying under $2k for a 2 BR


Then you have my GF, who lives in Stuy Town with a roommate and apparently took the first apartment they showed her and is paying WAY too much for a converted 2-BR.  We're going to be moving in together in a couple months, and I've been slowing tempering her expectations for a 1-BR for the both of us.

On the plus side, her rent will be coming down substantially.
 
2013-04-23 11:39:24 AM

Arkanaut: James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

Bacon, ham, and porkchops?


Next he'll be telling us those are all from the same magical animal...
 
2013-04-23 11:41:06 AM

dynomutt: So that is an observation without performing interviews?  That seems like studying elephant dung.  They're humans, ask questions!  I suspect the answer you'd get from them is "I dunno".  And "I dunno" = mesmerized to buy whatever the glowing box tells them to.


I don't remember. I took the class probably 20 years ago :-)
 
2013-04-23 11:42:04 AM

sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11


Recently I ordered a gluten free pulled pork, red onion, horseradish-yogurt  waffle, had it delivered. With a side of Kale chips. $25 with tip. It felt a little hipstery
 
2013-04-23 11:43:13 AM
To be fair, the article does say that for wealthy people NYC is financially a good deal. Of coure wealthy is a relative term for those who are considered to be wealthy in NYC vs. wealthy somewhere else. But for poorer people it's not so great. Which generally means, everyone else.

I'm in Park Slope and managed to bag a 2k/month 2 BR. Hoping that we can stay for a very very long time as I am not wealthy.

Wish I had the money to buy in Park Slope 10 years ago when you could get a place on the cheap.
 
2013-04-23 11:43:56 AM

James!: I really doubt that most rural farkers live on vast tracts of land like they claim.  Most people live in tract housing out in the boonies and spend most of their day commuting.


4 bedroom house, 3 car garage on 6 acres, 2 of which are lake.  12 pecan trees, 5 fruit trees (planting more soon) and a vegetable garden.  14 minutes from work.  Deer, geese, coyotes, foxes, bobcats, raccoons - all kinds of wildlife in the area, even beavers (fark you if you eat another of my trees, dammit!).  And yes, that's a *good* thing.  That's the way i like it.

One hour from either of two major metro areas, when I have to resort to that kind of thing.  I've been in big cities all over the world and every one of them is interesting to visit, but hold no permanent sway.
 
2013-04-23 11:44:47 AM

Hipchewy1: Recently I ordered a gluten free pulled pork, red onion, horseradish-yogurt waffle, had it delivered. With a side of Kale chips. $25 with tip. It felt a little hipstery


All I can say is "Mile End Deli".
 
2013-04-23 11:44:57 AM

freewill: travoltron: So you've been to my hometown. Good for you for making it out alive. It's the land where dreams go to die.

I live in Binghamton, dude.

To some of these unfortunates, I may as well live in opulence in Hong Kong because my power stays on after a strong wind.


I'm from Potsdam, and the wife is from Owego. Provided you aren't super creepy and a complete waste of space, if you're here in the city, I have four taps set up in my dining room, come get a beer. It's like a tour in 'nam in rural NYS. (though Binghamton is a huge city by comparison to Potsdam)
 
2013-04-23 11:44:58 AM
I simply don't understand why anyone would choose to live in NYC when you can live just about anywhere else without all the hassle.
 
2013-04-23 11:45:22 AM

Yanks_RSJ: skullkrusher: farking Stuy Town man... friend of mine's dad got her in there back in the waiting list days. I think she's still paying under $2k for a 2 BR

Then you have my GF, who lives in Stuy Town with a roommate and apparently took the first apartment they showed her and is paying WAY too much for a converted 2-BR.  We're going to be moving in together in a couple months, and I've been slowing tempering her expectations for a 1-BR for the both of us.

On the plus side, her rent will be coming down substantially.


IIRC they do fark you over by making you "rent" their ACs for a ridiculous amount of money
 
2013-04-23 11:45:33 AM

Ethertap: I live in south Georgia, I pay 500 bucks a month for a 1000 square-foot apartment.  In return for my tiny rent, I get to live in a town with no bar, no nightlife, no restaurant variety, and no culture.

When I got my job offer here I thought the pay was pretty lousy, 10% under national average for new hires in my field.  Then I looked up cost of living in the area and realized why it was that low.

The way I look at living in a place like New York, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco (among others) is that despite the high cost of living, at least theres things to do, places to go, and interesting things to eat.


And you get high humidity to boot.

How far out of Atlanta or Jax are you?
 
2013-04-23 11:46:33 AM

CtrlAltDestroy: A vehicle also affords A LOT of freedom. There's no ties to bus/train time schedules. Or worrying about missing the last train of the night. Or having to wonder or figure out if the available transportation is will where you want it to go. I have 2 cars and 3 motorcycles. I enjoy driving/riding and working on motorized toys.


Dude, none of this really applies to NYC, at least not in the expensive locations (most of manhattan and the cool parts of Brooklyn) where public transportation is plentiful. I've never "missed the last train." That doesn't happen. 

public transportation is actually QUICKER than having a car in NYC. Quicker thank taxis too most of the time. In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing. You have to move them, pay for them, and deal with them wiithout much benefit.
 
2013-04-23 11:50:42 AM

freewill: travoltron: So you've been to my hometown. Good for you for making it out alive. It's the land where dreams go to die.

I live in Binghamton, dude.

To some of these unfortunates, I may as well live in opulence in Hong Kong because my power stays on after a strong wind.


A relative talked me in to moving from JC to Deposit...it's like a whole other country!
 
2013-04-23 11:51:28 AM
Look, it's all about what YOU value in life.

If you want to be able to walk down the block and go to a bar, a restaurant, a nightclub, a museum, a park, a theatre, or whatever else you can think of, you want to live in a big city.  If you're interested in staying home, cooking for yourself, watching your home theater, owning a car, and having a big backyard, you probably want a suburb of a smaller city.  If you want to grow your own food, shoot your guns for target practice, hunt on your own land, ride 4-wheelers, or that sort of thing, you want to live in a rural area.

Different people value different things, you all know this, and you're arguing about it anyway.

As for me, I like having a 2k square foot house near downtown in a medium size city.  I'm easy walking distance to 4 bars (including a gay bar), 3 restaurants, a natural foods grocery store, three mechanics, two bus lines, a non-chain coffee shop, and several parks.  A longer walk or 5-10 minute drive will get me to another 30 or so bars, about the same number of restaurants (most of them not chains), 20 fast food places, a major university, a few theatres, and quite a few other things to do.  Oh, and the house was under $100k, and I don't have a HOA to deal with.
 
2013-04-23 11:52:15 AM

Bill Frist: CtrlAltDestroy: A vehicle also affords A LOT of freedom. There's no ties to bus/train time schedules. Or worrying about missing the last train of the night. Or having to wonder or figure out if the available transportation is will where you want it to go. I have 2 cars and 3 motorcycles. I enjoy driving/riding and working on motorized toys.

Dude, none of this really applies to NYC, at least not in the expensive locations (most of manhattan and the cool parts of Brooklyn) where public transportation is plentiful. I've never "missed the last train." That doesn't happen. 

public transportation is actually QUICKER than having a car in NYC. Quicker thank taxis too most of the time. In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing. You have to move them, pay for them, and deal with them wiithout much benefit.


If all of your friends and family are in NYC, you don't need a car.  If that's not the case, then it becomes a huge pain in the ass to visit anyone or do anything else outside the city.  Sure you can take a train/bus to your destination but you do become extremely reliant on people who have cars when the train or bus stops.
 
2013-04-23 11:52:45 AM

Bill Frist: Dude, none of this really applies to NYC, at least not in the expensive locations (most of manhattan and the cool parts of Brooklyn) where public transportation is plentiful. I've never "missed the last train." That doesn't happen.

public transportation is actually QUICKER than having a car in NYC. Quicker thank taxis too most of the time. In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing. You have to move them, pay for them, and deal with them wiithout much benefit.


I was talking about people trying to figure out equal costs between city life to suburb life. The idea here is that vehicle costs need to be applied to housing costs when trying to compare the two lifestyles. All of what I said DOES apply to suburb life. My point is that this additional cost also comes with additional benefits because of this.

Reading comprehension. Learn it, use it, love it.
 
2013-04-23 11:53:14 AM

Longtime Lurker: dumbobruni: Longtime Lurker: Chicago FTW. Virtually everything NYC has at half the cost.

/1200 for a brand new gut rehab 1br, and I'm really overpaying compared to my neighbors.
//not getting into the pizza debate

with similar salaries for most jobs.

Well I'm a medical resident, so that's one of the downsides. Residents have some of the lower salary/cost of living ratios in the country. Also once I get through training, it's sad that salaries rise exponentially the farther away from the city core you get. A guy who graduated from my program was pulling down 2x as much pay to work in Aurora than another graduate who stayed in the city doing the same job with more hours.


Medical residents in chicago have low ratios, I should say. Programs I interviewed at in upstate NY and Detroit actually had higher salaries despite rent being next to nothing in both places. NYC resident salaries are actually are a bit higher and most hospitals have subsidzed housing.
 
2013-04-23 11:53:18 AM

Hipchewy1: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Recently I ordered a gluten free pulled pork, red onion, horseradish-yogurt  waffle, had it delivered. With a side of Kale chips. $25 with tip. It felt a little hipstery


not sure if you know this or not, but, as far as i understand, all pork is gluten free.  gluten is like some wheat thing.  you would have to add gluten to pork, which doesn't seem sensible. i've noticed products have lately presented themselves as gluten free.  but, those products have no relation to wheat whatsoever.  so, i just want to warn you, often "gluten-free" is as valuable as salt advertising that it's sugar free.
 
2013-04-23 11:54:29 AM

RatOmeter: James!: I really doubt that most rural farkers live on vast tracts of land like they claim.  Most people live in tract housing out in the boonies and spend most of their day commuting.

4 bedroom house, 3 car garage on 6 acres, 2 of which are lake.  12 pecan trees, 5 fruit trees (planting more soon) and a vegetable garden.  14 minutes from work.  Deer, geese, coyotes, foxes, bobcats, raccoons - all kinds of wildlife in the area, even beavers (fark you if you eat another of my trees, dammit!).  And yes, that's a *good* thing.  That's the way i like it.

One hour from either of two major metro areas, when I have to resort to that kind of thing.  I've been in big cities all over the world and every one of them is interesting to visit, but hold no permanent sway.


All that and your lovely wife, Morgan Fairchild.
 
2013-04-23 11:56:28 AM

DarkVader: Look, it's all about what YOU value in life.

If you want to be able to walk down the block and go to a bar, a restaurant, a nightclub, a museum, a park, a theatre, or whatever else you can think of, you want to live in a big city.  If you're interested in staying home, cooking for yourself, watching your home theater, owning a car, and having a big backyard, you probably want a suburb of a smaller city.  If you want to grow your own food, shoot your guns for target practice, hunt on your own land, ride 4-wheelers, or that sort of thing, you want to live in a rural area.

Different people value different things, you all know this, and you're arguing about it anyway.

As for me, I like having a 2k square foot house near downtown in a medium size city.  I'm easy walking distance to 4 bars (including a gay bar), 3 restaurants, a natural foods grocery store, three mechanics, two bus lines, a non-chain coffee shop, and several parks.  A longer walk or 5-10 minute drive will get me to another 30 or so bars, about the same number of restaurants (most of them not chains), 20 fast food places, a major university, a few theatres, and quite a few other things to do.  Oh, and the house was under $100k, and I don't have a HOA to deal with.


Yep, these debates are normally stupid because people are just arguing about different things. I couldn't care less about having " fruit trees" in my backyard. (Note: I grew up on tons of land in a semi-rural area, so I know what I'm missing). But it isn't going to impress someone who cares about that and not, say, theater to know about all the options in NYC.

To each his own.

The other thing that has to be factored in here is one's career. If you are doing anything in the arts (books, music, theater, comedy, TV, etc.) the benefits to living in NYC over any other city* is pretty staggering. No amount of back yard space makes up for the connections, events, and career benifits of a city like NYC for many careers.

*A few semi-exceptions like Chicago for theater and comedy, or LA for comedy and film
 
2013-04-23 11:58:33 AM
Didn't we just have this thread just yesterday?
 
2013-04-23 11:58:39 AM

andrewskdr: Bill Frist: CtrlAltDestroy: A vehicle also affords A LOT of freedom. There's no ties to bus/train time schedules. Or worrying about missing the last train of the night. Or having to wonder or figure out if the available transportation is will where you want it to go. I have 2 cars and 3 motorcycles. I enjoy driving/riding and working on motorized toys.

Dude, none of this really applies to NYC, at least not in the expensive locations (most of manhattan and the cool parts of Brooklyn) where public transportation is plentiful. I've never "missed the last train." That doesn't happen. 

public transportation is actually QUICKER than having a car in NYC. Quicker thank taxis too most of the time. In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing. You have to move them, pay for them, and deal with them wiithout much benefit.

If all of your friends and family are in NYC, you don't need a car.  If that's not the case, then it becomes a huge pain in the ass to visit anyone or do anything else outside the city.  Sure you can take a train/bus to your destination but you do become extremely reliant on people who have cars when the train or bus stops.


It all depends on your lifestyle. Some people might need to drive constantly to Illinois. Others won't travel to another city more than twice a year. Personally, my family live an easy Amtrak ride a way and I have no need for a car.

But really, event he people who do have cars in NYC still use public transportation for 99% of their daily travel.
 
2013-04-23 11:59:41 AM

travoltron: I'm from Potsdam, and the wife is from Owego. Provided you aren't super creepy and a complete waste of space, if you're here in the city, I have four taps set up in my dining room, come get a beer. It's like a tour in 'nam in rural NYS. (though Binghamton is a huge city by comparison to Potsdam)


potsdam does have some darn good mexican food though. is that little wine bar still there? i want on a succesful date with a clarkson girl there once and had an excellent meal. i lived in canton for a few years when i was really young (pre-k) and then went to st. lawrence for my 4 year
 
2013-04-23 12:00:17 PM
I have/had relatives who lived/worked in NYC and when they used to come down here to visit in Florida, decades ago, they always drove big cars, carried wads of cash, talked loudly and a lot.

I was a kid then. They tended to annoy me. They were often arguing amongst themselves over nearly anything. They had bought a big old wooden house after WW2 and all of them lived in it. They all worked in factories.

My folks, who were from New Jersey, used to tell me stories about how great it was to go into NYC and shop and the many things you could see and do. When they first moved down into my (then) small town, they lamented the fact that there were no pizza places, they had to get grocery stores to special order the makings for spaghetti for them, no deli's and none of the rich sausages they were used to.

They were impressed at how inexpensive the town was -- until my Dad went job hunting and discovered the pay was cheap also.

My folks used to impress on me that NYC was great in many places and the pay rates were higher, but the cost of living was very high.

I was taken to NYC for a visit when I was too young to remember -- except for bits and pieces of the train ride. I haven't been back.

My older brother, shortly after leaving the military in the 70's, went there to visit with his wife and told me trying to drive through the city was a nightmare. Since then he's been all over the US with his motor home but has not gone back to NYC.

For me, the idea of living in a city where you're basically shoulder to shoulder with people and it seems to go on for miles and miles, is a version of hell. I like greenery and wild woods. While much of that is vanishing here, there are still some spots to be found.

NYC sounds like a fascinating place, with all sorts of cool things to buy and my folks raved about the assorted foods, but I don't think I'd do well there. Plus I've seen the tiny apartments that cost more to rent than a huge house down here and wonder why folks want to live that way.
 
2013-04-23 12:00:53 PM

travoltron: I'm from Potsdam, and the wife is from Owego. Provided you aren't super creepy and a complete waste of space, if you're here in the city, I have four taps set up in my dining room, come get a beer. It's like a tour in 'nam in rural NYS. (though Binghamton is a huge city by comparison to Potsdam)


I work in the city about every three months, Union Square. Yeah, we should connect.

/ Owego. Does she know a place called John Barleycorn?

CtrlAltDestroy: A vehicle also affords A LOT of freedom. There's no ties to bus/train time schedules. Or worrying about missing the last train of the night. Or having to wonder or figure out if the available transportation is will where you want it to go. I have 2 cars and 3 motorcycles. I enjoy driving/riding and working on motorized toys.


Honestly, in NYC, a car restricts your freedom, if anything. You have to worry about traffic, parking, etc. I like to drive recreationally, too, but it's basically impossible to be stranded in Manhattan/the good, close parts of Brooklyn. The trains generally run every few minutes and are ridiculously fast.

Even being upstate, working from home, a car is basically just what you said: a motorized toy that I play with on weekends. There's a bus system here if I need it. It *is* fun to have a car, but I think I'd sooner eat a bullet than live in another place where I essentially have to spend thousands/year feeding a car just to handle the essentials of life. What kills me is that the further you get from infrastructure, the more lower-income people seem to be unwilling to even consider the idea that having to pay for that is basically making them poor. An acquaintance of mine commutes 30 miles to work on one of two job sites from rural Chenango County, makes $20/hour (which is pretty OK up there), starts every day $36 in the hole on roundtrip mileage expenses, yet can't figure out why he's 24 and can't afford to move out of his father's house. (Maybe it's because you live so far from a grocery store or Walmart/Target that it's cheaper to pay 50% more for stuff at an expensive convenience store?) Meanwhile, he has to get up at 4 AM to get to work on time, so living there is pretty much ruining his life.

I chose to move to a place where I could ride the bus until I could afford toys. It was arguably among the best choices I ever made.
 
2013-04-23 12:02:31 PM

andrewskdr: If all of your friends and family are in NYC, you don't need a car.  If that's not the case, then it becomes a huge pain in the ass to visit anyone or do anything else outside the city.  Sure you can take a train/bus to your destination but you do become extremely reliant on people who have cars when the train or bus stops.


This. Like I said, personal vehicles offer a lot of freedom. Like that guy that I used to know. If it was outside of the city, or on the other side of the city, he bummed rides from people. All the while sticking to this idea that he has no use for a car. Which, I guess as long as there were patient people willing to drive him around, he kinda didn't.

But if one is the kind of person who never feels the need to leave a major city, then I guess that doesn't matter. They're severally limiting their experience in life by doing so, but that's their choice. Those people also aren't allowed to talk about non city living as they lack the experience required to actually understand it.

/Did city living for a few years.
//Much prefers the suburbs.
 
2013-04-23 12:02:46 PM

James!: RatOmeter: James!: I really doubt that most rural farkers live on vast tracts of land like they claim.  Most people live in tract housing out in the boonies and spend most of their day commuting.

4 bedroom house, 3 car garage on 6 acres, 2 of which are lake.  12 pecan trees, 5 fruit trees (planting more soon) and a vegetable garden.  14 minutes from work.  Deer, geese, coyotes, foxes, bobcats, raccoons - all kinds of wildlife in the area, even beavers (fark you if you eat another of my trees, dammit!).  And yes, that's a *good* thing.  That's the way i like it.

One hour from either of two major metro areas, when I have to resort to that kind of thing.  I've been in big cities all over the world and every one of them is interesting to visit, but hold no permanent sway.

All that and your lovely wife, Morgan Fairchild.


Not my type at all.  Mine is the over-educated, Engrish speaking type.
 
2013-04-23 12:03:31 PM
Subby gets Jimmy McMillan's endorsement.
farm6.staticflickr.com
 
2013-04-23 12:03:42 PM

James!: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Look at this motherfarker:
[tomjinadventures.files.wordpress.com image 660x327]

There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


Are you sure that's not cat?
 
2013-04-23 12:03:43 PM

FLMountainMan: College towns are the way to go.  I live downtown in a three bedroom home with a $750/month mortgage, walk to work, get to see ACC basketball, football, and baseball, usually for free or dirt cheap.  Also get up-and-coming bands in town to play to all the college kids.  And a constantly churning supply of 18-26 year old women really tips the dating dynamic in the men's favor.  Best of both worlds.


Moving there next summer.  Book it, done!  I can't wait.
 
2013-04-23 12:05:12 PM

Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?


I think Subby is my brother. This sounds like his rent, and yes studio means studio.
 
2013-04-23 12:05:22 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: But if one is the kind of person who never feels the need to leave a major city, then I guess that doesn't matter. They're severally limiting their experience in life by doing so, but that's their choice. Those people also aren't allowed to talk about non city living as they lack the experience required to actually understand it.


Man, your logic is really poor. Living in a city w/o a car doesn't "severally limit" your life experience. First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs. But even without that, you do realize that.... planes and trains and buses and many other types of transportation exists, not just cars?

I come from a small city and my family all have cars. They rarely travel further than I do on a daily basis in NYC. And they travel to OTHER cities and other parts of the world much less than me.

Some people have cars and drive all over the country and continent. But most don't gain "life experience" with their car. They just shuttle between home, work and McDonalds.
 
2013-04-23 12:06:35 PM

pute kisses like a man: Hipchewy1: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Recently I ordered a gluten free pulled pork, red onion, horseradish-yogurt  waffle, had it delivered. With a side of Kale chips. $25 with tip. It felt a little hipstery

not sure if you know this or not, but, as far as i understand, all pork is gluten free.  gluten is like some wheat thing.  you would have to add gluten to pork, which doesn't seem sensible. i've noticed products have lately presented themselves as gluten free.  but, those products have no relation to wheat whatsoever.  so, i just want to warn you, often "gluten-free" is as valuable as salt advertising that it's sugar free.


I'm well aware, I have Celiac disease. The waffle was gluten free.
 
2013-04-23 12:07:09 PM
Also worth pointing out that Zipcar and similar programs are pretty cheap and easy. Most of my friends in NYC don't have cars, but we fairly frequently rent Zipcars to go out of town. 

Owning a car in a city really doesn't have any benefits for 99% of people.
 
2013-04-23 12:07:33 PM

James!: All that and your lovely wife, Morgan Fairchild.


Why is it so hard to believe that people can own large areas of land? You're either trolling something inane or extremely dense.

freewill: Honestly, in NYC, a car restricts your freedom, if anything.


True. I hate driving in a major city. But this is only so for as only as long as one remain within the city limits. If that's your thing, then ok. But many cannot live confined like that.
 
2013-04-23 12:10:41 PM

Krieghund: DamnYankees: Regional 'cost of living' as some sort of basis of radjustment is mostly crap. The reason it costs of a ton of money to live in New York is that living in New York is a 'good' which is in very high demand. Living here is a form of consumption. We don't subsidize consumption, and we don't pity people for consuming.

Subsidizing New Yorkers is the price we pay for keeping them in New York.


Subsidizing the rest of the country is the price we pay for keeping people like you out.
 
2013-04-23 12:13:16 PM

Job Creator: Krieghund: DamnYankees: Regional 'cost of living' as some sort of basis of radjustment is mostly crap. The reason it costs of a ton of money to live in New York is that living in New York is a 'good' which is in very high demand. Living here is a form of consumption. We don't subsidize consumption, and we don't pity people for consuming.

Subsidizing New Yorkers is the price we pay for keeping them in New York.

Subsidizing the rest of the country is the price we pay for keeping people like you out.


Yeah... New Yorkers are not subsidized. We pay far more in taxes, and actually subsidize the shiatty rural parts.
 
2013-04-23 12:13:34 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: Why is it so hard to believe that people can own large areas of land? You're either trolling something inane or extremely dense.


Or I'm making a joke using an SNL reference.  Untwist your pants.
 
2013-04-23 12:13:52 PM
Rik01:NYC sounds like a fascinating place, with all sorts of cool things to buy and my folks raved about the assorted foods, but I don't think I'd do well there. Plus I've seen the tiny apartments that cost more to rent than a huge house down here and wonder why folks want to live that way

In NYC, home is where you go to sleep, and where you store your stuff.  You don't spend as much time at home as you do in rural areas, which is why having a lot of space isn't that important.  What is important for us big-city people is location.  To be near everything.  Art spaces, galleries, museums, restaurants, cheap food, bars, work, and so on.  And many of these places are open 24/7, so if you feel like having a pizza and chat with some people at 3am, you can just walk out the door and do just that.

When I lived in the suburbs I hated the finality of getting home.  You went home, and that was it for the day.  Maybe watch a little TV, go online for a bit, then bedtime.  In the city I have that option, or I can just walk right out and go do something.  Or not even go home at all until whatever time I chose.

I agree, it isn't for everyone.  But it does have its appeal for others, myself included.  And it it has nothing to do with cool things to buy.
 
2013-04-23 12:14:34 PM

Molavian: If you can't get laid in a town with nothing to do, you're doing it wrong.


This. I've lived in the same general area as Ethertap, a town with the same business (although I worked a different business), and that's all I did. That and internet my brain and drive to the coast every weekend so I didn't crazy.
 
2013-04-23 12:17:38 PM

enforcerpsu: I simply don't understand why anyone would choose to live in NYC when you can live just about anywhere else without all the hassle.

=======================

I don't live the in city, I live in Jersey just a short train ride away.   I do own a car, but most days I don't bother to use it.   I can walk to a large super market, numerous shops, and a huge mall with every conceivable chain store is a short mass transit trip away.  I can walk to the post office, doctor's office, hospital, etc.  I can get on the train and be in mid-town Manhattan in 15 minutes.

A friend of mine moved to the Poconos in Pennsylvania.  The post office is eight miles from his house.  Nearest gas station is 10 miles.  Nearest supermarket is 12 miles.  There is no mass transit.  We're only one Mideast whack-job away from $10-$12 dollar a gallon gas.  How do you live in such a place when gas is $10/gal?
 
2013-04-23 12:18:24 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: But many cannot live confined like that.


I find the idea that people in other areas ordinarily range further than the boundaries of the area conveniently served by New York's transportation systems to be highly suspect. One of the things I find creepiest about small town life (even here, in a mid-size city) are the number of people who rarely get to other parts of their own county or even leave their houses for anything but work and groceries.

Plus, considering that JetBlue makes it pretty easy to visit most other cities and a number of tropical islands at your leisure, I'd say it's far less confining in that regard. It's actually easier for us to overnight in NYC before flying out of JFK than it is to visit just about anywhere from our regional airport, which requires at least 2 connections for anywhere except major hubs.

/ Not ignoring the point that that requires money that might be eaten by housing, just saying. People in small town America are not exactly nomads roaming the countryside. I find it highly unlikely that the necessity of car ownership causes them to actually get out more.
 
2013-04-23 12:20:57 PM
Wow makes my $700/mo freshly renovated one bedroom with its own parking space seem like chump change.
 
2013-04-23 12:22:13 PM

Bill Frist: CtrlAltDestroy: But if one is the kind of person who never feels the need to leave a major city, then I guess that doesn't matter. They're severally limiting their experience in life by doing so, but that's their choice. Those people also aren't allowed to talk about non city living as they lack the experience required to actually understand it.

Man, your logic is really poor. Living in a city w/o a car doesn't "severally limit" your life experience. First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs. But even without that, you do realize that.... planes and trains and buses and many other types of transportation exists, not just cars?

I come from a small city and my family all have cars. They rarely travel further than I do on a daily basis in NYC. And they travel to OTHER cities and other parts of the world much less than me.

Some people have cars and drive all over the country and continent. But most don't gain "life experience" with their car. They just shuttle between home, work and McDonalds.


it's kind of weird, the relationship between person, car, and location.  i used to have a car.  then it rained one day and my car went under water. so, now i ride my bike, take buses, streetcars, and drive the wife's car as necessary.  but, I really don't feel like i live somewhere until i get out of the car and travel by foot, bike, and public transportation.  it's like the urban version of survival camping.  so long as you're in the car, you're more like a tourist, who has a home, a destination, and a vehicle.  always walled in, always contained.  like living in a bubble. once your travel is in the city, not through the city, it's like you live there a little more.

but, people can still rent a car for vacation.  or fly or whatever.  i've never met a person who is not horribly poor that has been prevented from vacation because they didn't own enough cars.
 
2013-04-23 12:22:48 PM

Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?


Roosevelt Island.
 
2013-04-23 12:23:33 PM

Hipchewy1: pute kisses like a man: Hipchewy1: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Recently I ordered a gluten free pulled pork, red onion, horseradish-yogurt  waffle, had it delivered. With a side of Kale chips. $25 with tip. It felt a little hipstery

not sure if you know this or not, but, as far as i understand, all pork is gluten free.  gluten is like some wheat thing.  you would have to add gluten to pork, which doesn't seem sensible. i've noticed products have lately presented themselves as gluten free.  but, those products have no relation to wheat whatsoever.  so, i just want to warn you, often "gluten-free" is as valuable as salt advertising that it's sugar free.

I'm well aware, I have Celiac disease. The waffle was gluten free.


sorry for coming off like a douche, i reacted before reading the other ingredients.  it was the notion of advertising gluten free pork that put me in a tizzy.  should have finished reading, would have found the waffle.
 
2013-04-23 12:27:09 PM
TFA: "living in New York is actually a relative bargain for the wealthy"

So... your massively higher fixed costs are justified by savings in discretionary spending?
i.e. *thousands* more in monthly housing costs are *offset* by 20% cheaper foie gras and $3 less for a manicure?

Fantastic 'article' and 'research'.
 
2013-04-23 12:30:40 PM

DarkVader: Look, it's all about what YOU value in life.

If you want to be able to walk down the block and go to a bar, a restaurant, a nightclub, a museum, a park, a theatre, or whatever else you can think of, you want to live in a big city.  If you're interested in staying home, cooking for yourself, watching your home theater, owning a car, and having a big backyard, you probably want a suburb of a smaller city.  If you want to grow your own food, shoot your guns for target practice, hunt on your own land, ride 4-wheelers, or that sort of thing, you want to live in a rural area.

Different people value different things, you all know this, and you're arguing about it anyway.


Agree 100%.

But I still think there's another real estate bubble waiting to pop in the waaaay overpriced big cities like NYC, San Francisco, DC, Vancouver and Toronto. I'm pretty convinced the Great Recession 2.0 is coming later this decade when that bubble pops PLUS the college cost bubble pops around the same time.
 
2013-04-23 12:32:08 PM

enforcerpsu: I simply don't understand why anyone would choose to live in NYC when you can live just about anywhere else without all the hassle.


This all depends on how you define hassle. In NYC, I can see all my friends easily without any hassle, I can find great parties or events easily, I have the biggest resource for seeing touring bands / musuems / contemporary art / comedy shows / literary readings / theater productions / etc., I have a near infinite spectrum of food options, and so on and so forth.

My point is not to say that city living is better than rural living or not, but that different things are a hassle in different locations. If you live in a small city or live in the suburbs, merely going out to eat at a nice restaurant can be a hassle. In NYC, I have a ton of great restaurants literally less than 3 blocks fro my apartment.

In another location I'd have to drive 15-30 minutes to even get to a restaurant, and my options would be severely limited. If I wanted a unique cuisine, I might have to cook it myself, which is much more of  a hassle than walking 1 block.

On the other hand, some things in NYC ARE a bigger hassle. But it really isn't correct to say that living in NYC has more of a hassle than anywhere else. It depends on what you like to do.
 
2013-04-23 12:37:47 PM

Stan Lee's Ghost: FLMountainMan: College towns are the way to go.  I live downtown in a three bedroom home with a $750/month mortgage, walk to work, get to see ACC basketball, football, and baseball, usually for free or dirt cheap.  Also get up-and-coming bands in town to play to all the college kids.  And a constantly churning supply of 18-26 year old women really tips the dating dynamic in the men's favor.  Best of both worlds.

Moving there next summer.  Book it, done!  I can't wait.


Brother!
 
2013-04-23 12:39:46 PM
My $1,300 1BR in Astoria is getting a kick, etc.

/rather have a $300 mortgage in the woods
 
2013-04-23 12:41:59 PM

Bill Frist: CtrlAltDestroy: A vehicle also affords A LOT of freedom. There's no ties to bus/train time schedules. Or worrying about missing the last train of the night. Or having to wonder or figure out if the available transportation is will where you want it to go. I have 2 cars and 3 motorcycles. I enjoy driving/riding and working on motorized toys.

Dude, none of this really applies to NYC, at least not in the expensive locations (most of manhattan and the cool parts of Brooklyn) where public transportation is plentiful. I've never "missed the last train." That doesn't happen. 

public transportation is actually QUICKER than having a car in NYC. Quicker thank taxis too most of the time. In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing. You have to move them, pay for them, and deal with them wiithout much benefit.


compared with driving in Manhattan, mass transit is faster.

but outside of Manhattan, the argument falls apart very quickly.
 
2013-04-23 12:42:22 PM

The Dynamite Monkey: Other than apartments, you can get almost everything cheap in NYC.

If you have a rent stabilized apartment, as I did for a decade, Manhattan can be very cheap indeed.


I had a rent-controlled apartment in San Francisco for 12 years......but it was a large 3 bedroom Victorian flat with a fireplace and huge windows 2 blocks from Golden Gate park.  $1,200.  Only had housemates the first few years.  Was a lot in 1995 but a steal in 2005.  Seems like a better deal than what you can find in NYC.
No car does help expenses, you don't need one all the time in the city.
 
2013-04-23 12:43:31 PM

Longtime Lurker: Chicago FTW. Virtually everything NYC has at half the cost.

/1200 for a brand new gut rehab 1br, and I'm really overpaying compared to my neighbors.
//not getting into the pizza debate


Is that before or after the Alderman's ask for their cut?

/Can make that joke
//b/c the City Councilpeople here wouldn't be any better
///and this a Democrat saying this about NY Dems
 
2013-04-23 12:44:24 PM

mjohnson71: DarkVader: Look, it's all about what YOU value in life.

If you want to be able to walk down the block and go to a bar, a restaurant, a nightclub, a museum, a park, a theatre, or whatever else you can think of, you want to live in a big city.  If you're interested in staying home, cooking for yourself, watching your home theater, owning a car, and having a big backyard, you probably want a suburb of a smaller city.  If you want to grow your own food, shoot your guns for target practice, hunt on your own land, ride 4-wheelers, or that sort of thing, you want to live in a rural area.

Different people value different things, you all know this, and you're arguing about it anyway.

Agree 100%.

But I still think there's another real estate bubble waiting to pop in the waaaay overpriced big cities like NYC, San Francisco, DC, Vancouver and Toronto. I'm pretty convinced the Great Recession 2.0 is coming later this decade when that bubble pops PLUS the college cost bubble pops around the same time.


=================

Depends on the price of fuel.  A huge price hike in fuel will make urban living more attractive.  High density living is much more energy efficient.  If fuel costs continue to rise, you're going to see the death of the suburbs.....especially the outer ring burbs that went up during the last housing boom.  It's the suburbs that have no mass transit links that are going to die.
 
2013-04-23 12:46:13 PM

Marine1: [nbcprosoccertalk.files.wordpress.com image 315x272]
"Hey, Thierry, do you know why does Red Bull come in cans?"

[www.topnews.in image 335x500]
"No, why, Jimmy?"

[www.sportsvuesoccer.com image 360x322]
"Because they don't have any Cups."

[injuryleague.com image 460x288]

[www.mlssoccer.com image 620x350]


You really wanna go there man?  'Cause you're not going to like my response. >:)
 
2013-04-23 12:48:25 PM

mjohnson71: But I still think there's another real estate bubble waiting to pop in the waaaay overpriced big cities like NYC, San Francisco, DC, Vancouver and Toronto. I'm pretty convinced the Great Recession 2.0 is coming later this decade when that bubble pops PLUS the college cost bubble pops around the same time.


All of those cities are relatively cheap compared to international big money cities like Hong Kong and Tokyo.

The fact is, those cities offer jobs and human capital. You can be the best developer or financial wiz in the world but unless you are in close proximity to other like-minded and well-educated individuals you will never have the human capital to build a Apple or a Goldman Sachs. Talent breeds talent, and although people could plausibly work in Kansas City Missouri and make good money due to the internet, you cannot make the connections you can in a big, educated city. Hell, that's how Silicon Valley was founded. NYC itself used to be a manufacturing town until it reinvented itself into a financial powerhouse in the 1980's - and it wasn't anything else that did it but human interaction and capital. These places bring human capital together and make shiat tons of money - that's why big city real estate (particularly the prime areas) have already rebounded from the recession.
 
2013-04-23 12:50:05 PM

Bill Frist: Man, your logic is really poor. Living in a city w/o a car doesn't "severally limit" your life experience.


As long as you intend to remain within the city limits, no.

First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs.

This is opinion. Not fact.

But even without that, you do realize that.... planes and trains and buses and many other types of transportation exists, not just cars?

Been there, done that. This all requires planning, forethought, and restrictions.

Flying is a pain in the ass. You have to arrive 2+ hours early, wait through lines, fly, wait for your luggage, and then have additional transportation pre scheduled when you arrive. Trains and buses still work on a schedule and is still confined to predestined routes. Even things like the MegaBus are limiting.

All are based on schedules and things like ZipCars require going out of your way to find whatever vehicle you happen to get. It's also one that many people use and abuse. I like my cars. I've driven cars that I don't like. It's not the same thing as walking out the front door and jumping into a vehicle that's parked in the drive way that you hand selected for comfort, ride, etc.

Using any of those almost eliminates spontaneity. Feel the need to visit a new place? Gotta hope the bus/train/subway goes that way. There's taxis for direct lines of travel, but that get's expensive and you're still reliant on someone else.

I come from a small city and my family all have cars. They rarely travel further than I do on a daily basis in NYC. And they travel to OTHER cities and other parts of the world much less than me.

So? Your family isn't everyone. I happen to drive and travel plenty and log about 15k miles a year. I can either take my turbocharged convertible, my hardtop convertible 4x4, my sportbike, my cruiser, or my classic 60's bike. Or my bicycle for that matter. All at the drop of a hat to any destination I choose for as long as I want. I have A shiat ton of freedom because I chose to be outside of the city limits. I can experience the city, suburbs, and rural areas on my schedule the way that I want to. I have no desire to limit myself to a congested, crowded, noisy city.

Some people have cars and drive all over the country and continent. But most don't gain "life experience" with their car. They just shuttle between home, work and McDonalds.

Maybe that's the way your family works. But there's a HUGE citation needed for the idea that most don't gain any life experiences with the freedom afforded by a vehicle.

Because no one ever goes to other cities for festivals, conventions, sporting events, concerts, art shows (and yes, I've done this personally), and the like. My brother didn't just take a road trip down South to visit his girlfriend's family and had a blast experiencing a new area, new people, and had new experiences thanks to her family. People totally don't go to take a vacation to remote areas where there is NO public transit. It's not like I used to work with people who would take weekend trips to Michigan to go fishing and enjoy the countryside. I've totally never traveled to another state on a whim to visit friends and large weekend long festivals. I've totally never taken a week long driving trip with my long term girlfriend seeing nothing but new places and things just for the fun of it.

But hey, none of those could possibly be life experiences at all.

In another location I'd have to drive 15-30 minutes to even get to a restaurant, and my options would be severely limited. If I wanted a unique cuisine, I might have to cook it myself, which is much more of  a hassle than walking 1 block.

I can drive 10-15 minutes in one of 3 different directions and hit areas with 15-30+ different restaurants of many different types. Not everywhere is the boonies.

If you want to stay within the city limits and almost never leave it, then don't own a vehicle. If it works for you then it does. But not everyone has the desire to live that way. I did it for a few years. it was AWFUL. I'm happy visiting a big city but I get out once my fun is had.

Your way of living isn't superior to anyone but you. I acknowledge the same about me and my choices. But pull your head out of it's dark hole and realize that not everyone is like you. Some find your way of life to be constricting, confining, and generally unpleasant. Not everyone lives the way that your family seems to.
 
2013-04-23 12:51:31 PM
My mortgage payment is less than $2000/mo., and the nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away. The only gangs in my 'hood are deer and turkeys, my sons play outside and run around without fear of traffic or strangers. I can tack up any of my horses and go for a relaxing ride anytime I like, my dogs have pretty much never worn a leash. If I want good Vietnamese food, OK, I'm pretty much screwed, but I've never wanted that, and likely never will.

All this works for me and makes me perfectly happy. Your results may vary. And I fail to see how this makes me any "better" or "worse" than anyone else.
 
2013-04-23 12:52:09 PM

pute kisses like a man: Bill Frist: CtrlAltDestroy: But if one is the kind of person who never feels the need to leave a major city, then I guess that doesn't matter. They're severally limiting their experience in life by doing so, but that's their choice. Those people also aren't allowed to talk about non city living as they lack the experience required to actually understand it.

Man, your logic is really poor. Living in a city w/o a car doesn't "severally limit" your life experience. First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs. But even without that, you do realize that.... planes and trains and buses and many other types of transportation exists, not just cars?

I come from a small city and my family all have cars. They rarely travel further than I do on a daily basis in NYC. And they travel to OTHER cities and other parts of the world much less than me.

Some people have cars and drive all over the country and continent. But most don't gain "life experience" with their car. They just shuttle between home, work and McDonalds.

it's kind of weird, the relationship between person, car, and location.  i used to have a car.  then it rained one day and my car went under water. so, now i ride my bike, take buses, streetcars, and drive the wife's car as necessary.  but, I really don't feel like i live somewhere until i get out of the car and travel by foot, bike, and public transportation.  it's like the urban version of survival camping.  so long as you're in the car, you're more like a tourist, who has a home, a destination, and a vehicle.  always walled in, always contained.  like living in a bubble. once your travel is in the city, not through the city, it's like you live there a little more.

but, people can still rent a car for vacation.  or fly or whatever.  i've never met a person who is not horribly poor that has been prevented from vacation because they didn't own enough cars.


yes, exactly  Between Zipcar, Amtrak, airplanes, friends with cars, and buses I've never once felt trapped in NYC or unable to travel.
 
2013-04-23 12:52:14 PM

James!: CtrlAltDestroy: Why is it so hard to believe that people can own large areas of land? You're either trolling something inane or extremely dense.

Or I'm making a joke using an SNL reference.  Untwist your pants.


So, you start by making a claim that no one has something. Someone shows up who has it. You respond with a poor joke? Not, "Oh I was mistaken" or "I still don't believe you" or an actual rebuttal. Awesome.

freewill: I find the idea that people in other areas ordinarily range further than the boundaries of the area conveniently served by New York's transportation systems to be highly suspect.


NYC is 468 sq mi. To make it a square is about 21.6 x 21.6 miles. 20 miles is my drive to work. It's not that odd that someone would travel 20-50+ miles for something. And in a straight line without other stops (ala bus or train). My friend's daughter recently drove 3 hours to the state capitol just for fun. I know people who make frequent weekend trips out of town and/or out of state.

This has been fun and all, but with this, I'm out. Call it fleeing if you will, and I'm sure that someone will, but I've wasted enough time with this today. Off to finish work then go home and wrench on my motorcycle in prep for the nice weather.
 
2013-04-23 12:54:25 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: So, you start by making a claim that no one has something. Someone shows up who has it. You respond with a poor joke? Not, "Oh I was mistaken" or "I still don't believe you" or an actual rebuttal. Awesome.


You're so angry.
 
2013-04-23 12:54:49 PM

dumbobruni: compared with driving in Manhattan, mass transit is faster.

but outside of Manhattan, the argument falls apart very quickly.


I buy that, but in NYC--other than occasional trips to queens or the beach---I'm either traveling in a a specific part of brooklyn (areas from Greenpoint to cobble hill basically) or traveling into and out of manhattan. For the latter, trains are quicker. For the former, biking tends to be if not quicker then much less of a hassle than driving.
 
2013-04-23 12:55:51 PM

Another Government Employee: Ethertap: I live in south Georgia, I pay 500 bucks a month for a 1000 square-foot apartment.  In return for my tiny rent, I get to live in a town with no bar, no nightlife, no restaurant variety, and no culture.

When I got my job offer here I thought the pay was pretty lousy, 10% under national average for new hires in my field.  Then I looked up cost of living in the area and realized why it was that low.

The way I look at living in a place like New York, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco (among others) is that despite the high cost of living, at least theres things to do, places to go, and interesting things to eat.

And you get high humidity to boot.

How far out of Atlanta or Jax are you?


almost four hours to atl and a little over three to jax.
 
2013-04-23 12:55:58 PM

Rev.K: James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker. DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

That's fantastic, but that cilantro has to go.

Devil weed.


I hate it when other people eat things I don't like.
 
2013-04-23 12:59:24 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: NYC is 468 sq mi. To make it a square is about 21.6 x 21.6 miles. 20 miles is my drive to work. It's not that odd that someone would travel 20-50+ miles for something. And in a straight line without other stops (ala bus or train). My friend's daughter recently drove 3 hours to the state capitol just for fun. I know people who make frequent weekend trips out of town and/or out of state.


Dude...

A) Transportation in NYC goes further than its city borders.

B) Dunno why this has to keep being stressed to you, but Amtrak, buses, zipcar and plenty of other options are available to travel even farther than that. Plenty of NYers make frequent weekend trips without owning a car.

C) the average person on an average day does not travel very far in there car. That really shouldn't be a controversial statement.
 
2013-04-23 12:59:40 PM
If you like to eat at great restaurants and bar hop 6 nights a week AND you can afford it AND you are able to attract acceptable members of the sex you prefer, you can't beat NYC.

If you just want to work, go home, go to the gym, cook and watch TV, go live somewhere else.

/I miss my single days in NYC. Well, the last 2-3 years when I made enough money to truly enjoy it
 
2013-04-23 01:00:08 PM

dchurch0: I love Nebraska.


of course you do
teddyroosevelt.comelementalherbs.com
 
2013-04-23 01:00:32 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: This has been fun and all, but with this, I'm out. Call it fleeing if you will, and I'm sure that someone will, but I've wasted enough time with this today. Off to finish work then go home and wrench on my motorcycle in prep for the nice weather.


COWARD!

No, this is Fark. We're all wasting time with this.

Enjoy the weather. As an upstater, I'm still coming out of that "let me start my car so I can thaw the seats out, I need to go somewhere in half an hour, provided the bridges aren't closed" mode.

/ Here comes the rainy season! Then the flood season! Then 2 beautiful autumn weeks before we get 6 more months of winter!
 
2013-04-23 01:02:06 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs.

This is opinion. Not fact.


Lol, dude your cliche Ford commercial conception of "freedom" and "life experience" is hardly a "fact"!!!

Although your obtuseness is kind of cute.
 
2013-04-23 01:02:06 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: Bill Frist: Man, your logic is really poor. Living in a city w/o a car doesn't "severally limit" your life experience.

As long as you intend to remain within the city limits, no.

First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs.

This is opinion. Not fact.


Every last goddamn bit of this thread is Opinion, you Dolt
 
2013-04-23 01:08:15 PM

James!: CtrlAltDestroy: So, you start by making a claim that no one has something. Someone shows up who has it. You respond with a poor joke? Not, "Oh I was mistaken" or "I still don't believe you" or an actual rebuttal. Awesome.

You're so angry.


Profile says "Chicago-ish area". Since it doesn't say "Downstate Illinois" then he's a Chicagoan who thinks he lives in the "sticks"; i.e. just outside of Downtown Chicago.

Many Chicagoans have a serious superiority complex over anyone who doesn't care to live in Chicago, and an inferiority complex with NewYorkers. As a former downstate Illinois resident, I want them to form their own goddamn state and leave us the F alone already.

\I was in Champaign when the Bears had to use U of I's field for awhile
\\it was lock your doors and hide the kids on those days, what a fabulous flood of SUV-driving @ssholes that thundered down I57 then
 
2013-04-23 01:10:56 PM
Wow, hearty lol at someone from Chicago trying to feel superior to NYC.

Chicago is a pretty shiatty city. I get wanting to live in rural America (I was raised there myself), cool small towns, or even cool non-NYC big cities.

But Chicago is ultimate "I couldn't make it anywhere else" bummer city.
 
2013-04-23 01:13:23 PM

CheapEngineer: Many Chicagoans have a serious superiority complex over anyone who doesn't care to live in Chicago, and an inferiority complex with NewYorkers. As a former downstate Illinois resident, I want them to form their own goddamn state and leave us the F alone already.


Where, exactly?

Williamson County, here. Far enough down that it stops being "downstate" and turns into "southern".
 
2013-04-23 01:15:08 PM
One tidbit I'd like to toss out is that when I was a young man makin diddly squat living in an apartment, one of the things I missed most was having a grill.  That was the first thing I bought when I moved into a rental house.  I would never live anywhere without one again.  So I guess I'm on the suburbs -> rural side.  I would miss sporting events and music if I were in the boonies, but I might get over it with lots of land, nature, and animals to grill.
 
2013-04-23 01:15:24 PM
One day a group of New Yorkers was talking about the city, and one of them said:  You know, I do enjoy the crime, the noise, the angry exchanges with strangers, and the pollution, but I just don't think it is quite cold enough.  That's how Chicago got started.  ;-)
 
2013-04-23 01:17:17 PM

dchurch0: I love Nebraska.


I prefer some of the other places on Stone St, though will admit the bartendresses are easy on the eyes.
 
2013-04-23 01:19:40 PM

Carn: One tidbit I'd like to toss out is that when I was a young man makin diddly squat living in an apartment, one of the things I missed most was having a grill.  That was the first thing I bought when I moved into a rental house.  I would never live anywhere without one again.  So I guess I'm on the suburbs -> rural side.  I would miss sporting events and music if I were in the boonies, but I might get over it with lots of land, nature, and animals to grill.


While backyard/grill space is somewhat rarer in NYC, it isn't THAT rare you can't get it. I have plenty of friends (20s/30s employed but not with any amazingly high paying jobs) with backyards and grills (and others who grill on the rooftops).
 
2013-04-23 01:21:04 PM
You have to live in brooklyn though. In Manhattan, pretty hard to get grill space.
 
2013-04-23 01:22:18 PM

Bill Frist: Carn: One tidbit I'd like to toss out is that when I was a young man makin diddly squat living in an apartment, one of the things I missed most was having a grill.  That was the first thing I bought when I moved into a rental house.  I would never live anywhere without one again.  So I guess I'm on the suburbs -> rural side.  I would miss sporting events and music if I were in the boonies, but I might get over it with lots of land, nature, and animals to grill.

While backyard/grill space is somewhat rarer in NYC, it isn't THAT rare you can't get it. I have plenty of friends (20s/30s employed but not with any amazingly high paying jobs) with backyards and grills (and others who grill on the rooftops).


That's true and same for rowhouses/townhouses in and around DC.  I guess I'm really only putting my foot down for apartment buildings - it's against fairfax county code to allow grills on your balcony or it was anyway.  LAME (and understandable).
 
2013-04-23 01:23:57 PM
Them's the breaks when you live somewhere desirable that doesn't have room for expansion.  Folks are actually paying way more than asking price for studios and 1 bedrooms out here in SF upwards of 3500+ for 1 bedrooms and a nice 2200/mo studio in a good part of town would be considered a steal.  Sure you can still find the super cheap 1500/mo studios in the outer mission or the rougher parts of town but by no means was subby far off the mark for the hottest markets in the country.  

I've been in a 2 bedroom loft for the last 7 years and still only pay $3600/month and if I moved out the same place would hit the market at $6000/month and be leased the very next day.
 
2013-04-23 01:33:55 PM
I like the second-tier size of Milwaukee, the close proximity to Chicago for larger museums, and the access to the great outdoors driving 10 minutes west provides out here in the suburbs.

--25-minute commute from 18 miles away
--2-bedroom house with almost half-acre of land for $700/month (plus taxes, so $1,000/month)
--every store I want or need is literally within a 1-mile radius

I can see why some people would want the hustle and bustle of NYC or downton Chicago, but that's not me.  I like being within a few miles of the trap shooting club and a short jaunt to many different campgrounds & lakes.

But during the week have a job in the "fashionable" part of downtown MKE.
 
2013-04-23 01:37:05 PM

Algebrat: Living in NYC is about the only way that I can plausibly pay down my student loans.  Both my salary and my expenses are twice as high as they would be for the same job/lifestyle in Pittsburgh, and that means the difference between the two is twice as high.  It's actually quite possible to live cheaply in NYC if your intent is financial freedom rather than getting the "experience".

\ $600 for an Upper West Side appartment.
\\ ok, it's w. 144th street.
\\\ with 2 other roommates.


This.

Paying off debt in Chicago, where I was getting offers for $45K.  Difficult.
Paying off debt with a roommate in the Bay Area, where I make $72K.  Well, I paid off 2/3rds of my student loans in 4 months (helped by an enormous tax return.  And I'm still $25K in debt after the student loans, so it'll be a couple years).

/Of course, making $60K (~$45K after tax) in Detroit and mooching off Dad (~$550/month in rent total) would've had me totally debt-free by the end of the year because the last time I did that, I kept 80% of my takehome pay.
//Or taking the $20K signing bonus from Amazon in Seattle plus relocation, where I'd be debt-free right now
 
2013-04-23 01:45:15 PM

AgentBang: To be fair, the article does say that for wealthy people NYC is financially a good deal. Of coure wealthy is a relative term for those who are considered to be wealthy in NYC vs. wealthy somewhere else. But for poorer people it's not so great. Which generally means, everyone else.

I'm in Park Slope and managed to bag a 2k/month 2 BR. Hoping that we can stay for a very very long time as I am not wealthy.

Wish I had the money to buy in Park Slope 10 years ago when you could get a place on the cheap.


I was in the market for Park Slope homes ten years ago. They weren't much cheaper then unless you were looking over at 4th Avenue.

OTOH, my Mom failed to convince my Dad to buy a brownstone there for under $50K in the late 60's because he balked at the fact it didn't have a driveway.
 
2013-04-23 01:47:01 PM
NYC is like the hipster "culture" infecting it for the past decade. It is rich, lazy and obvious. The same bland almart and piggly wiggly mentality under the nom de plum of cheap jacks and trader joes. Now that even therougher edges like Harlem, DUMBO, wberg, etc have been smoothed out by spoiled trusties, it lost the truth that real writers, artists and musicians lent it in prior decades. I'm sorry but blogging about your 15 dollar three pork and cilantro sandwich is no less banal than a nascar fan praising fried twinkies. Coast to coast, the same vapid stupidity found in flyover towns is found in D. Trump'ed first tier "work-shop-play" cities, just in a different flavor. The uniqueness of a singular Warhol has been supplanted by a proliferation ofnumerous assholes who permeate the city like an oil slick, covering the mundane with the absurd. Screw mickey mouse, skinny jeans and non functional horn rimmed glasses. Give me back the hookers, CBGBs and The Roxy. Buying organics and growing a few tomatos while you sop up bukowski and the lumineers doesntmake you edgy or relevant. From this nyc native- Fark you hipster from Harrisburg, you came, you saw, you ruined.
 
2013-04-23 01:52:44 PM

Bill Frist: Yeah... New Yorkers are not subsidized. We pay far more in taxes, and actually subsidize the shiatty rural parts.


The shiatty rural parts that actually feed you. And build your furniture. And all the other shinies that you desire.
 
2013-04-23 01:54:25 PM

James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


Any long pork in there?
 
2013-04-23 01:56:37 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Bill Frist: Yeah... New Yorkers are not subsidized. We pay far more in taxes, and actually subsidize the shiatty rural parts.

The shiatty rural parts that actually feed you. And build your furniture. And all the other shinies that you desire.


The delusional nature of rural america is kind of staggaring. You really think that the big cities have huge economies caue they don't produce things people want to buy? 

Anyway, California produces, by far, the most food of any state. Podunk north dakota, or wharever, isn't really feeding america.
 
2013-04-23 02:02:40 PM

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: The uniqueness of a singular Warhol


I was with you until right here. Pretty much destroys the whole rest of the post.
 
2013-04-23 02:04:52 PM

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: NYC is like the hipster "culture" infecting it for the past decade. It is rich, lazy and obvious. The same bland almart and piggly wiggly mentality under the nom de plum of cheap jacks and trader joes. Now that even therougher edges like Harlem, DUMBO, wberg, etc have been smoothed out by spoiled trusties, it lost the truth that real writers, artists and musicians lent it in prior decades. I'm sorry but blogging about your 15 dollar three pork and cilantro sandwich is no less banal than a nascar fan praising fried twinkies. Coast to coast, the same vapid stupidity found in flyover towns is found in D. Trump'ed first tier "work-shop-play" cities, just in a different flavor. The uniqueness of a singular Warhol has been supplanted by a proliferation ofnumerous assholes who permeate the city like an oil slick, covering the mundane with the absurd. Screw mickey mouse, skinny jeans and non functional horn rimmed glasses. Give me back the hookers, CBGBs and The Roxy. Buying organics and growing a few tomatos while you sop up bukowski and the lumineers doesntmake you edgy or relevant. From this nyc native- Fark you hipster from Harrisburg, you came, you saw, you ruined.


You forget that New Yorkers still live in actual New York. It's called Queens, the Bronx, and Eastern Brooklyn and... sigh... Staten Island. That being said I find only new comers to "glamorize" NYC in the 1980's and 70s. While I do find it disconcerting not to have the "toughness" the city used to have (Wisconsin socialite wannabes in the LES? WTF?), I will also be the first to admit that the quality of life in NYC is drastically better than it was 25+ years ago.
 
2013-04-23 02:10:15 PM

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: NYC is like the hipster "culture" infecting it for the past decade. It is rich, lazy and obvious. The same bland almart and piggly wiggly mentality under the nom de plum of cheap jacks and trader joes. Now that even therougher edges like Harlem, DUMBO, wberg, etc have been smoothed out by spoiled trusties, it lost the truth that real writers, artists and musicians lent it in prior decades. I'm sorry but blogging about your 15 dollar three pork and cilantro sandwich is no less banal than a nascar fan praising fried twinkies. Coast to coast, the same vapid stupidity found in flyover towns is found in D. Trump'ed first tier "work-shop-play" cities, just in a different flavor. The uniqueness of a singular Warhol has been supplanted by a proliferation ofnumerous assholes who permeate the city like an oil slick, covering the mundane with the absurd. Screw mickey mouse, skinny jeans and non functional horn rimmed glasses. Give me back the hookers, CBGBs and The Roxy. Buying organics and growing a few tomatos while you sop up bukowski and the lumineers doesntmake you edgy or relevant. From this nyc native- Fark you hipster from Harrisburg, you came, you saw, you ruined.


This NYC native has noted that you've already pointed out in this thread how much you wish NYC looked the way it did before Guliani was mayor, CBGB's was closed (your punk-rock bona fides, got it) and all these people who came to the city after you did showed up. I for one do not miss the crime of the 80's; it wasn't until I left NYC for college that I realized that everyone didn't have multiple stories about guns being pointed at them and their friends being shot at.

I also wonder if you're actually a native if you define the "edges" of the city as Harlem, DUMBO and Williamburg, three areas either in Manhattan or bordered by the East River. If you really feel the need for rough-hewn authenticity may I suggest a visit to Jamaica, Queens, Far Rock or East New York, Brooklyn.

And I know a great place that has been frying twinkies in Brooklyn for over a decade. (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/15/dining/fry-that-twinkie-but-hold-th e -chips.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/15/dining/fry-that-twinki e-but-hold-the -chips.html )

/or was the "uniqueness of a singular warhol" a tip this was a troll? If so, well played.
 
2013-04-23 02:10:38 PM

Bill Frist: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Bill Frist: Yeah... New Yorkers are not subsidized. We pay far more in taxes, and actually subsidize the shiatty rural parts.

The shiatty rural parts that actually feed you. And build your furniture. And all the other shinies that you desire.

The delusional nature of rural america is kind of staggaring. You really think that the big cities have huge economies caue they don't produce things people want to buy? 

Anyway, California produces, by far, the most food of any state. Podunk north dakota, or wharever, isn't really feeding america.


Where are the factories? Big cities market the shiat people want to buy (sales, marketing, web design, etc), lend each other huge sums of money so they can afford the shiat people want to buy (finance, investing, banking), harass each other when they can't afford the shiat they just bought (collections, lawyers, accounting) and then demand bailouts when shiat blows up. A hipster grows a farking tomato on his fire escape and photoblogs about it until it ripens. The rest of America feeds the farking world, builds heavy machinery, trucks and the like and its deemed unimportant flyover country. Guess what idiots, you can live without a bank or the latest crap movie from la....live a week without food and tell me how that goes. That better be one big tomato. And I am from NYC
 
2013-04-23 02:11:26 PM

Bill Frist: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Bill Frist: Yeah... New Yorkers are not subsidized. We pay far more in taxes, and actually subsidize the shiatty rural parts.

The shiatty rural parts that actually feed you. And build your furniture. And all the other shinies that you desire.

The delusional nature of rural america is kind of staggaring. You really think that the big cities have huge economies caue they don't produce things people want to buy?

Anyway, California produces, by far, the most food of any state. Podunk north dakota, or wharever, isn't really feeding america.


i421.photobucket.com

i421.photobucket.com
Mmmm?
 
2013-04-23 02:17:25 PM
As a ruuural NYer (since moved to NYC), I can tell you  that they produce barely enough to stay alive, at least up where I'm from. They are not making things that I as a city dweller want or lust for. They make hair dressers and poorly repaired, late 80's blown out Camaros.
It's all service economy, and some dairy. Honestly, if the hometown was part of southern Ontario, we'd all be better off.
 
2013-04-23 02:19:08 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Bill Frist: Yeah... New Yorkers are not subsidized. We pay far more in taxes, and actually subsidize the shiatty rural parts.

The shiatty rural parts that actually feed you. And build your furniture. And all the other shinies that you desire.


Which we pay for.  Which makes living in rural areas somewhat viable, otherwise your whole economy would be selling meth to each other.  You're welcome.
 
2013-04-23 02:23:35 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: The shiatty rural parts that actually feed you. And build your furniture. And all the other shinies that you desire.


That's a bizarre claim, considering that manufacturing is largely tied to urban areas (small cities and up, you can't much of a factory without infrastructure and a workforce), and the only thing keeping much of America's rural agriculture afloat is massive government subsidy paid for by those in higher tax brackets.

I mean, really. I have nothing against small towns or rural America in general, I'm from there, but let's not be ridiculous. America has been urbanizing for decades and rural counties, by and large, are dying, both literally (health outcomes) and figuratively (population loss). The infrastructure that makes it recognizably First World in modern rural America isn't paid for by the infinitesimal tax revenue on some dude's $100,000 house and $35,000 wages, it's paid for by what goes on in the cities.
 
2013-04-23 02:24:19 PM

dittybopper: Rev.K: James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker. DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

That's fantastic, but that cilantro has to go.

Devil weed.

What in the cockadoodle is ci-lantro? 

I got your four basic food groups! Beans, bacon, whisky and lard.


Cookie thanks you. The rest of the crew does not.
/two for flinching
 
2013-04-23 02:27:10 PM
Sorry, NYC and Chicago, your weather and people suck.  And New York City restaurants are way overrated and expensive.

LA and SF has better food, weather and attitude.  This is all based on the scientific method of "my farking opinion."
 
2013-04-23 02:42:38 PM
Quality of life depends on what kind of life you want to have. Anyone with a modicum of street smarts could survive NYC in the 70s-90s, even Wash Heights, but you needed an advanced finance degree not to get raped by Wall Street in the aughts. And dont tell me Bloombergs 300 parking fines and soda laws are any less of a mugging than some junkie rolling you for a 20 spot...i find it a lot scarier when the theivery is institutionalized and enforced by police.

as far as my taste for Warhol...no it isnt trolling..like it or not, his art was a statement of what America was to become...rampant consumerism. It was a testimony to how mass consumption equalizes (and homogenizes) the rich and the poor. To me, it fortold 1000s of flop haired, scarf wearing, Chbosky reading nitwits unique-ing themselves into a mainstream porridge of blah, and 1000s of lil' lil waynes gangstarring themselves to ridiculousness.

Take me back to the time where I could respect Bukowski followers because they experienced his same squallor, and fear Tupac fans because they understood what it was like to live every day im danger.
 
2013-04-23 02:50:43 PM

Bill Frist: In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing.


Only if you rarely leave the immediate metro area.  If the horizon of your World doesn't exceed 10 or 15 miles from Central Park, then yeah, a car is probably more trouble than it's worth.
 
2013-04-23 02:56:00 PM

rewind2846: dittybopper: Rev.K: James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker. DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

That's fantastic, but that cilantro has to go.

Devil weed.

What in the cockadoodle is ci-lantro? 

I got your four basic food groups! Beans, bacon, whisky and lard.

Cookie thanks you. The rest of the crew does not.
/two for flinching


I actually like that movie, especially Vinny (as played by Don Novello of "Father Guido Sarducchi" fame).  He's got the best lines in the whole film.
 
2013-04-23 02:57:13 PM

dittybopper: Bill Frist: In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing.

Only if you rarely leave the immediate metro area.  If the horizon of your World doesn't exceed 10 or 15 miles from Central Park, then yeah, a car is probably more trouble than it's worth.


In my case, if I need to use a car or if I want to travel, I can just rent one.  No need to have one of my own.  Insurance in the city costs a lot.  parking prices are astronomical, parking on the streets means having to spend many hours every other day looking for a parking spot on the good side of the street, and there is always the problem of vandalism or theft.  Easier and cheaper to rent one when I need one.
 
2013-04-23 03:02:46 PM

Job Creator: I'm tired of a lot of these posts (not yours) saying "I pay $200/month for 60 acres and a 27-bedroom house hurrrrrr" because they miss the point.   NYC fits me, where other people live fits them.  I could no longer live in South Georgia than many people can live in NYC.  And that's fine.



Well then, what are you complaining about? What, just because you are happy where you are, nobody else can discuss their cost of living opinions? Just because you might react emotionally to hearing about other people's cost of living opinions? Nobody made you come into a cost of living thread. Stay out if you don't want to see posts about it.
 
2013-04-23 03:05:26 PM

dittybopper: Bill Frist: In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing.

Only if you rarely leave the immediate metro area.  If the horizon of your World doesn't exceed 10 or 15 miles from Central Park, then yeah, a car is probably more trouble than it's worth.


Cars don't bring most people to the "horizons" of their world, they usually just bring them to and from the supermarket.
 
2013-04-23 03:06:59 PM

dittybopper: Bill Frist: In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing.

Only if you rarely leave the immediate metro area.  If the horizon of your World doesn't exceed 10 or 15 miles from Central Park, then yeah, a car is probably more trouble than it's worth.


This has been hammered to death in this thread, but it's really more like "hundreds of miles from Central Park". The LIRR, etc., connect readily to the entire metro area (the hundred or so miles up Long Island, for example, and the rest of the region on other services), and beyond that, Boston, Washington, Philadelphia, and most of those regions are all readily linked up, as well. You have more or less complete freedom of movement within the northeast, and the gaps are mostly places people don't really have all that much reason to go for either business or pleasure. It's rare enough of a problem that taking a cab to connect up the remaining leg in those situations would still be far cheaper and less of a hassle than car ownership. Anything beyond that, most people, regardless of whether they own a car, would fly anyway.

This is really a ridiculous and somewhat desperate, pointless argument. There's no serious debate over the convenience and cost. The idea that car ownership is a big deal is really about image, as people in some parts of this country associate it with independence. They want to *see themselves* as free to go wherever they want, whenever they want, even though they rarely do. People in other parts just don't see it that way, and still go where they want to go.

The whole "oh, your world must just have small horizons" retort is just ludicrous. Beyond their own regions, it's my observation that people in NY do tend to travel quite a bit more widely and more often than people I deal with smaller towns, I'm assuming because of the higher incomes and far better access to cheaper, faster transportation than some dude relying on EAS flights to a second tier hub.
 
2013-04-23 03:07:48 PM

SirEattonHogg: Sorry, NYC and Chicago, your weather and people suck.  And New York City restaurants are way overrated and expensive.

LA and SF has better food, weather and attitude.  This is all based on the scientific method of "my farking opinion."


An odd thing about people from LA who move out of state is you never forget where they are from, because they mention it on pretty much a daily basis.  Makes you wonder why they moved....
 
2013-04-23 03:11:17 PM

Yanks_RSJ: dittybopper: Bill Frist: In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing.

Only if you rarely leave the immediate metro area.  If the horizon of your World doesn't exceed 10 or 15 miles from Central Park, then yeah, a car is probably more trouble than it's worth.

Cars don't bring most people to the "horizons" of their world, they usually just bring them to and from the supermarket.


Most of the time, that's reasonably true.

Having said that, ever go on a car trip?  It allows an amount of spontaneity not available to the various forms of mass transit.

Also, what many people don't recognize is that outside of relatively densely populated urban areas, mass transit has to be heavily subsidized because it simply isn't economically viable for relatively low-density areas and that includes most suburbs.
 
2013-04-23 03:17:44 PM

Willas Tyrell: FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: NYC is like the hipster "culture" infecting it for the past decade. It is rich, lazy and obvious. The same bland almart and piggly wiggly mentality under the nom de plum of cheap jacks and trader joes. Now that even therougher edges like Harlem, DUMBO, wberg, etc have been smoothed out by spoiled trusties, it lost the truth that real writers, artists and musicians lent it in prior decades. I'm sorry but blogging about your 15 dollar three pork and cilantro sandwich is no less banal than a nascar fan praising fried twinkies. Coast to coast, the same vapid stupidity found in flyover towns is found in D. Trump'ed first tier "work-shop-play" cities, just in a different flavor. The uniqueness of a singular Warhol has been supplanted by a proliferation ofnumerous assholes who permeate the city like an oil slick, covering the mundane with the absurd. Screw mickey mouse, skinny jeans and non functional horn rimmed glasses. Give me back the walked through hookeIrs, CBGBs and The Roxy. Buying organics and growing a few tomatos while you sop up bukowski and the lumineers doesntmake u edgy or relevant. From this nyc native- Fark you hipster from Harrisburg, you came, you saw, you ruined.

This NYC native has noted that you've already pointed out in this thread how much you wish NYC looked the way it did before Guliani was mayor, CBGB's was closed (your punk-rock bona fides, got it) and all these people who came to the city after you did showed up. I for one do not miss the crime of the 80's; it wasn't until I left NYC for college that I realized that everyone didn't have multiple stories about guns being pointed at them and their friends being shot at.

I also wonder if you're actually a native if you define the "edges" of the city as Harlem, DUMBO and Williamburg, three areas either in Manhattan or bordered by the East River. If you really feel the need for rough-hewn authenticity may I suggest a visit to Jamaica, Queens, Far Rock or East New York, Brooklyn.

And I know a ...

 "Edges" figuratively. I meant when I was growing up those were barely habitable, yet struggling artists and writers could still get a roof there and make it in time to perform downtown. I was born in Coney Island, raised in Canarsie, and lived in the ev until the sight of another trust funder wannabe was unbearable. That was last year.  I've eaten 25 cent greys papayas hotdogs at 4am with the homeless and as the homeless. I understand why some people who grew up in the so called dangerous NYC of the past can appreciate the cleaner, safer streets of today, since most of them grew up, grew wealthier, and now have children and something to lose. So they moved to bronx, queens, and ugh staten island landfills and biatch about bloomberg from afar, but appreciate the "quality of life" they have now. That quality of life is yours as long as you play by the rules, go to work on Monday, pay your farking taxes, and keep your mouth shut. And still, park your car (and you know you b&t farkers need them esp you staten island) under one of the parking/logic question signs in manhattan (sally can park here every alternating day that has a vowel as its second letter, provided it is between a time that ends on an odd number and can be divided by three and the car is a white sedan) and BOOM your QoL just went down 300 dollar points.

But I never had children, and Ive forgotton what the rules are its been that long since Ive played by them. And Ive walked through eny and wh after dark (im white) and havent been mugged (granted I was looking to score). But I did watch my parents die next to broke thanks to Wall Street. At least I knew who the criminals were 20 years ago.
 
2013-04-23 03:17:59 PM

WeenerGord: Job Creator: I'm tired of a lot of these posts (not yours) saying "I pay $200/month for 60 acres and a 27-bedroom house hurrrrrr" because they miss the point.   NYC fits me, where other people live fits them.  I could no longer live in South Georgia than many people can live in NYC.  And that's fine.


Well then, what are you complaining about? What, just because you are happy where you are, nobody else can discuss their cost of living opinions? Just because you might react emotionally to hearing about other people's cost of living opinions? Nobody made you come into a cost of living thread. Stay out if you don't want to see posts about it.


This thread is about costs of NYC living, not bumblefark Arkansas.
 
2013-04-23 03:20:01 PM

dittybopper: Having said that, ever go on a car trip?  It allows an amount of spontaneity not available to the various forms of mass transit.


Sure, and if the mood should strike there are plenty of rental cars available to make that possible.

As for spontaneity, I'm more likely to get on the train to DC or Boston for a weekend and enjoy the opportunities for spontaneity that those cities offer once I arrive.

Much like this one.  There are a million things to do between my office and my apartment, all at a moment's notice.
 
2013-04-23 03:29:00 PM

Yanks_RSJ: Much like this one.  There are a million things to do between my office and my apartment, all at a moment's notice.


Supposing you take the "ten to fifteen mile horizon" claim at face value, one thing a lot of people don't understand is that cities like New York are literally so big that you're literally never going to run out of new things. You could eat at a restaurant every single night or go see a show or an exhibit every single weekend, and there's always going to be more than you will ever see or try.

A couple miles of Manhattan really does contain more to do and see and more different kinds of people (as well as different actual individual people) to meet than fifty or a hundred miles or most of this country. That's without even addressing the fact that the argument is nonsensical to begin with, since it's actually very easy to get to other parts of the region and the country, not to mention the world.

That's not to say it's for everybody or objectively better, just that this whole line of argument is silly. Some people seem to be feeling a touch insecure and are picking a hill to die on that ends up making them look naive. "Oh, you just must not be interested in having experiences." *snort*
 
2013-04-23 03:32:39 PM

freewill: YouPeopleAreCrazy: The shiatty rural parts that actually feed you. And build your furniture. And all the other shinies that you desire.

That's a bizarre claim, considering that manufacturing is largely tied to urban areas (small cities and up, you can't much of a factory without infrastructure and a workforce), and the only thing keeping much of America's rural agriculture afloat is massive government subsidy paid for by those in higher tax brackets.

I mean, really. I have nothing against small towns or rural America in general, I'm from there, but let's not be ridiculous. America has been urbanizing for decades and rural counties, by and large, are dying, both literally (health outcomes) and figuratively (population loss). The infrastructure that makes it recognizably First World in modern rural America isn't paid for by the infinitesimal tax revenue on some dude's $100,000 house and $35,000 wages, it's paid for by what goes on in the cities.


==================

And it's been that way since the end of WWI.  In the 1920's, the US had lower rates of rural electrification than the Europeans.  American farms without connection to the public electric grid were common well into the 40's. What most "free" red state Tea-Party types don't know, or won't admit, is just how much they owe to the federal government and the taxpayers of the Northeast and Midwest.  Without massive government funded infrastructure projects, large areas of the rural south and west would have no running water, electricity, phone service to say nothing of paved roads.  Of coarse these people will never stop sneering at "the socialists back east".

The normal people of this country would all be a lot better off if Murica was broken up.  The Northeast could join the EU.  The Midwest  could go to Canada.  West coast can be split between the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans.  The rest can become the New Confederacy.  It would be the paradise real Muricans have been dreaming about.  The theory of evolution would be outlawed.  Debtors prisons, indentured servitude and slavery would be brought back,  Dentists offices would be burned.  They could open each session of congress by speaking in tongues.  Cousin marriage and guns for everybody.   It would be Murica restored.........restored to 1814.
 
2013-04-23 03:37:54 PM

freewill: That's not to say it's for everybody or objectively better, just that this whole line of argument is silly. Some people seem to be feeling a touch insecure and are picking a hill to die on that ends up making them look naive. "Oh, you just must not be interested in having experiences." *snort*


Yeah, as the rational folks in the thread have indicated, there is no right answer.  I'm not a "get in the car and drive until I find something" type of guy.  I'm sure some people are.

Still, I had to take issue with the idea that our "horizons" are incredibly limited because we can't do that.  It's less than an hour by train to any of three international airports, so I think we're okay.
 
2013-04-23 03:40:01 PM

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: and fear Tupac fans because they understood what it was like to live every day im danger.


Hahaha! You do realize he grew up in a very middle class lifestyle and went to a professional children's school where he study poetry and ballet right? His "tough guy' image was 99% fake although it ended up getting him killed.

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: I was born in Coney Island, raised in Canarsie, and lived in the ev until the sight of another trust funder wannabe was unbearable. That was last year.  I've eaten 25 cent greys papayas hotdogs at 4am with the homeless and as the homeless. I understand why some people who grew up in the so called dangerous NYC of the past can appreciate the cleaner, safer streets of today, since most of them grew up, grew wealthier, and now have children and something to lose. So they moved to bronx, queens, and ugh staten island landfills and biatch about bloomberg from afar, but appreciate the "quality of life" they have now. That quality of life is yours as long as you play by the rules, go to work on Monday, pay your farking taxes, and keep your mouth shut. And still, park your car (and you know you b&t farkers need them esp you staten island) under one of the parking/logic question signs in manhattan (sally can park here every alternating day that has a vowel as its second letter, provided it is between a time that ends on an odd number and can be divided by three and the car is a white sedan) and BOOM your QoL just went down 300 dollar points.


profile.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2013-04-23 03:41:06 PM
Bill FristWow, hearty lol at someone from Chicago trying to feel superior to NYC.

Chicago is a pretty shiatty city. I get wanting to live in rural America (I was raised there myself), cool small towns, or even cool non-NYC big cities.

But Chicago is ultimate "I couldn't make it anywhere else" bummer city.


So much this.  I have relatives who live there.  A brother who did college and grad school there.  I grew up 2 hours away and we did plenty of holiday and weekend trips there. And IMHO, Chicago has no charm.  It's like an overgrown Midwest city.   Yeah, okay I never lived there, but it seems like it has all the disadvantages of a big city and none of the good stuff.


Except for the art museums and Science and Industry.  Chicago has decent museums.
 
2013-04-23 03:49:00 PM
Big_fat_liar
An odd thing about people from LA who move out of state is you never forget where they are from, because they mention it on pretty much a daily basis.  Makes you wonder why they moved....

Well, that's true of all big city folks when they move out of their jurisdiction.  Certainly we have lots of New Yorkers here who can't stop complaining about LA and the fact they have to drive to get from A to B and our mass transit ain't so good.  Yeah, we get it.  NYC is a walking town.  Thanks for telling us what we already know.
 
2013-04-23 03:49:42 PM
lollipop- not sure where you get your info but tupac grew up in east harlem until he was about 14. And so what he went to a school for the arts in Baltimore? He grew up poor and in the ghetto..doesnt make him carlton. You have your info wrong. Nice bunny tho.
 
2013-04-23 03:54:02 PM

Yanks_RSJ: dittybopper: Having said that, ever go on a car trip?  It allows an amount of spontaneity not available to the various forms of mass transit.

Sure, and if the mood should strike there are plenty of rental cars available to make that possible.

As for spontaneity, I'm more likely to get on the train to DC or Boston for a weekend and enjoy the opportunities for spontaneity that those cities offer once I arrive.

Much like this one.  There are a million things to do between my office and my apartment, all at a moment's notice.


and you could also easily hop the train to albany, (3 hours) rent a car and drive up to the adirondacks (1 hour).
 
2013-04-23 04:02:58 PM

SirEattonHogg: Big_fat_liar
An odd thing about people from LA who move out of state is you never forget where they are from, because they mention it on pretty much a daily basis.  Makes you wonder why they moved....

Well, that's true of all big city folks when they move out of their jurisdiction.  Certainly we have lots of New Yorkers here who can't stop complaining about LA and the fact they have to drive to get from A to B and our mass transit ain't so good.  Yeah, we get it.  NYC is a walking town.  Thanks for telling us what we already know.


What is it with girls and LA?  My sister in law is dying to go back out to visit, even though she will be travelling broke.  She says it is so much fun out there.  She's in Atlanta now - maybe that has something to do with it...

I lived out their (San Jose anyway) for a short time as a kid and have visited as an adult....just don't see it.  A city is a city is a city.  I'm not a big Dead fan but "Your typical city involved in a typical daydream ...."
 
2013-04-23 04:04:11 PM

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: lollipop- not sure where you get your info but tupac grew up in east harlem until he was about 14. And so what he went to a school for the arts in Baltimore? He grew up poor and in the ghetto..doesnt make him carlton. You have your info wrong. Nice bunny tho.


Justice Sotomayor also grew up in East Harlem in a lower income minority family. Doesn't make her a "thug" or "living the hard life". Doesn't make her "carlton" either. He lived a relatively good life and was a good student and never got into trouble. He was also a talented rapper who realized that being a "thug" could help his career.
 
2013-04-23 04:09:31 PM
If they want to bring down the rent, they need to completely eliminate rent control, and cut property taxes and fees for building permits. After that just stand back and watch how many new apartment buildings go up.
 
2013-04-23 04:18:05 PM
lollipop- you said he grew up middle class and the thug image was fake, which was untrue. Now youre saying his thug image was embellished, which is probably true. Human nature. I am sure the Jersey Shore characters became more jersey shorey after and to facilitate their fame.
 
2013-04-23 04:30:34 PM

freewill: CheapEngineer: Many Chicagoans have a serious superiority complex over anyone who doesn't care to live in Chicago, and an inferiority complex with NewYorkers. As a former downstate Illinois resident, I want them to form their own goddamn state and leave us the F alone already.

Where, exactly?

Williamson County, here. Far enough down that it stops being "downstate" and turns into "southern".


Champaign/Urbana area, 9 years. Not there anymore.
 
2013-04-23 05:02:58 PM
For the Chicago love up-thread I'll just comment that while it's a great city it also boasts horrific weather.  Brutally hot and insanely cold.  The spring and fall are nice but fark that noise.  I lost my midwestern grit long ago.
 
2013-04-23 06:01:35 PM

freewill: Yanks_RSJ: Much like this one.  There are a million things to do between my office and my apartment, all at a moment's notice.

Supposing you take the "ten to fifteen mile horizon" claim at face value, one thing a lot of people don't understand is that cities like New York are literally so big that you're literally never going to run out of new things. You could eat at a restaurant every single night or go see a show or an exhibit every single weekend, and there's always going to be more than you will ever see or try.

A couple miles of Manhattan really does contain more to do and see and more different kinds of people (as well as different actual individual people) to meet than fifty or a hundred miles or most of this country. That's without even addressing the fact that the argument is nonsensical to begin with, since it's actually very easy to get to other parts of the region and the country, not to mention the world.

That's not to say it's for everybody or objectively better, just that this whole line of argument is silly. Some people seem to be feeling a touch insecure and are picking a hill to die on that ends up making them look naive. "Oh, you just must not be interested in having experiences." *snort*


Yep.

I mean, really, the fact that the anti-NYC people here are basing their entire argument on this goofy idea that if you don't own a car you can't get anywhere or experience the world (even though MOST of the world requires a plane to get to...) pretty much sums up how little they have.
 
2013-04-23 06:02:17 PM
Why is it that big cities are always so much more expensive? I live in a medium size southern town and I can't believe how much people pay for things in NY, LA and more.
 
2013-04-23 06:14:25 PM

Bill Frist: Yep.

I mean, really, the fact that the anti-NYC people here are basing their entire argument on this goofy idea that if you don't own a car you can't get anywhere or experience the world (even though MOST of the world requires a plane to get to...) pretty much sums up how little they have.


Yeah, but we have no idea what it's like to experience the "Waffle House/Dennys" conundrum on the open road.  Windows down, radio blarin', just trying to find a place to pull over and piss and eat a meal served in a dirty ashtray.
 
2013-04-23 06:28:22 PM
heh heh heh

i'm really glad i live in new orleans.  y'all people are weirdos.  either like where you live or don't live there.  or do live there and don't complain.  or do complain, but at least be funny.  the biggest complainers here are not being very funny.  what's the point in complaining if there's no joke?  it serves no purpose, just makes you look crazy.

but, i've noticed something about new orleans.  and i've not lived here long.  whenever someone starts blabbing about gentrification and hipsters and yuppies and bla bla bla, it's a pretty easy tell that you've lived here a shorter time than me.  i would have assumed other cities, cities that people so ardently identify with (like new york) it;s all the same.  those who yell the loudest about "you don't know what it was like!" are probably from ohio... or some other state like that, which i hate to make fun of because i've never been there and I'm sure it's lovely... but guests to my town from ohio tend not to be a little predictable.  oh well, better than people from alabama... they'll put their balls on your head.  and not because you want them to.

what were we talking about?
 
2013-04-23 06:30:38 PM

travoltron: freewill: travoltron: So you've been to my hometown. Good for you for making it out alive. It's the land where dreams go to die.

I live in Binghamton, dude.

To some of these unfortunates, I may as well live in opulence in Hong Kong because my power stays on after a strong wind.

I'm from Potsdam, and the wife is from Owego. Provided you aren't super creepy and a complete waste of space, if you're here in the city, I have four taps set up in my dining room, come get a beer. It's like a tour in 'nam in rural NYS. (though Binghamton is a huge city by comparison to Potsdam)


In all seriousness, I'm down with this or some variation on it next time the g/f and I are in the city. We always appreciate decent people to meet up with anywhere we go. Email in profile.
 
2013-04-23 06:36:08 PM
Big_fat_liar
What is it with girls and LA?  My sister in law is dying to go back out to visit, even though she will be travelling broke.  She says it is so much fun out there.  She's in Atlanta now - maybe that has something to do with it...

I lived out their (San Jose anyway) for a short time as a kid and have visited as an adult....just don't see it.  A city is a city is a city.  I'm not a big Dead fan but "Your typical city involved in a typical daydream ...."


You may not be a big city fan if your experience of a big city was based on San Jose.  Not to rip on your childhood experiences, but San Jose is really an overgrown suburb with a rather small and sleepy downtown.  It's much bigger in population and land than SF, but the comparison is night and day (much less comparing it with NYC or LA which would be laughable).  Unless I had a family, I wouldn't have any interest in moving to SJ.
 
2013-04-23 06:42:20 PM

Bundyman: Why is it that big cities are always so much more expensive? I live in a medium size southern town and I can't believe how much people pay for things in NY, LA and more.


Because more people want to live there and since more people live there more desirable businesses and events happen there, etc.

Although if you RTFA you'll notice that many things are actually cheaper in big cities becauase there is more competition.
 
2013-04-23 07:18:38 PM

SirEattonHogg: Big_fat_liar
An odd thing about people from LA who move out of state is you never forget where they are from, because they mention it on pretty much a daily basis.  Makes you wonder why they moved....

Well, that's true of all big city folks when they move out of their jurisdiction.  Certainly we have lots of New Yorkers here who can't stop complaining about LA and the fact they have to drive to get from A to B and our mass transit ain't so good.  Yeah, we get it.  NYC is a walking town.  Thanks for telling us what we already know.


Hey, a couple of weeks from now I'm gonna fly into San Diego, spend a night at a hotel, stash a rental car (current plan) and then head out that Monday away from shore.  They'll drop me off some miles south of LA early Friday evening.  What's the cheapest or best or whatever way to get back to San Diego, public transit or otherwise?
 
2013-04-23 07:31:34 PM
The gist I got from that article is, "New York really is affordable... provided you earn at least a six-figure salary." It would be nice (and actually useful) if articles like this focused on cost of living for the middle class and not just the extreme ends.
 
2013-04-23 08:12:19 PM
FTA:
Truthfully, things seem more expensive here because there's just way more high-end stuff around to tempt us, and we don't do the mental accounting to adjust sticker prices for the higher quality. We see a sensible shoe with a $480 price tag or an oatmeal cookie for $4 and sometimes don't register that these are luxury versions of normal items available from Payless or Entenmann's. The problem, in part, is that people tend to anchor their own expectations for what they should buy based on what their neighbors are buying, not what some abstract, median American buys.

--


So in this author's estimation the "problem" is that New Yorkers are just better than average (i.e. everyone else).
Move along folks, nothing new to see here.
 
2013-04-23 08:15:34 PM
You could live in Iowa where the cost of living as comparatively low.  But I'd rather you didnt.
 
2013-04-23 08:19:13 PM
Ratometer:
Hey, a couple of weeks from now I'm gonna fly into San Diego, spend a night at a hotel, stash a rental car (current plan) and then head out that Monday away from shore.  They'll drop me off some miles south of LA early Friday evening.  What's the cheapest or best or whatever way to get back to San Diego, public transit or otherwise?

Actually I would figure rental car is probably the cheapest and most convenient.  LA/Orange County has metrolink and SD has the Coaster(?)  but I don't think those two systems connect in any way.  The only transit link other than a bus is a daily Amtrak link.

I drive between SD and LA on fairly regular basis and its just a 2.5 to 3.5 hour drive (depending on where you are coming from in LA and the traffic conditions - which admittedly can be very hairy).
 
2013-04-23 09:06:04 PM

Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?


Holy shiat people, go live in Queens. It isn't that far from Manhattan. We had a nice 1br for $1700 in Forest Hills next to the subway. Why people live in Manhattan I will never understand.
 
2013-04-23 09:55:18 PM

RatOmeter: SirEattonHogg: Big_fat_liar
An odd thing about people from LA who move out of state is you never forget where they are from, because they mention it on pretty much a daily basis.  Makes you wonder why they moved....

Well, that's true of all big city folks when they move out of their jurisdiction.  Certainly we have lots of New Yorkers here who can't stop complaining about LA and the fact they have to drive to get from A to B and our mass transit ain't so good.  Yeah, we get it.  NYC is a walking town.  Thanks for telling us what we already know.

Hey, a couple of weeks from now I'm gonna fly into San Diego, spend a night at a hotel, stash a rental car (current plan) and then head out that Monday away from shore.  They'll drop me off some miles south of LA early Friday evening.  What's the cheapest or best or whatever way to get back to San Diego, public transit or otherwise?


You take metrolink to union station and take pacific surfliner to old town sd..from old town you can get practically anywhere in sd but be aware the buses often end at midnight. cabs are usually at old town but are expensive.
 
2013-04-23 10:40:12 PM

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: RatOmeter: SirEattonHogg: Big_fat_liar
An odd thing about people from LA who move out of state is you never forget where they are from, because they mention it on pretty much a daily basis.  Makes you wonder why they moved....

Well, that's true of all big city folks when they move out of their jurisdiction.  Certainly we have lots of New Yorkers here who can't stop complaining about LA and the fact they have to drive to get from A to B and our mass transit ain't so good.  Yeah, we get it.  NYC is a walking town.  Thanks for telling us what we already know.

Hey, a couple of weeks from now I'm gonna fly into San Diego, spend a night at a hotel, stash a rental car (current plan) and then head out that Monday away from shore.  They'll drop me off some miles south of LA early Friday evening.  What's the cheapest or best or whatever way to get back to San Diego, public transit or otherwise?

You take metrolink to union station and take pacific surfliner to old town sd..from old town you can get practically anywhere in sd but be aware the buses often end at midnight. cabs are usually at old town but are expensive.


Thanks for the input, guys.

I think I've already worked out the logical plan, now that I've gained more info about my actual travel details.  I expect that I'll fly into SD and out of LA....

But dang!  I love trains. Not "subways" really, but trains that cut through the countryside and backyard ghettos and random shiat.  Once took a train from Luizhou to Guilin, loved it.  Took a train from Swindon to Cardiff.  Sweet.  I'd like to take the train(s) from LA to SD, but honestly, I'm gonna be tired and ready to head home, so if I can get the into SD and out of LA flights, I'll do it.
 
2013-04-24 12:55:21 AM

RatOmeter: FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: RatOmeter: SirEattonHogg: Big_fat_liar
An odd thing about people from LA who move out of state is you never forget where they are from, because they mention it on pretty much a daily basis.  Makes you wonder why they moved....

Well, that's true of all big city folks when they move out of their jurisdiction.  Certainly we have lots of New Yorkers here who can't stop complaining about LA and the fact they have to drive to get from A to B and our mass transit ain't so good.  Yeah, we get it.  NYC is a walking town.  Thanks for telling us what we already know.

Hey, a couple of weeks from now I'm gonna fly into San Diego, spend a night at a hotel, stash a rental car (current plan) and then head out that Monday away from shore.  They'll drop me off some miles south of LA early Friday evening.  What's the cheapest or best or whatever way to get back to San Diego, public transit or otherwise?

You take metrolink to union station and take pacific surfliner to old town sd..from old town you can get practically anywhere in sd but be aware the buses often end at midnight. cabs are usually at old town but are expensive.

Thanks for the input, guys.

I think I've already worked out the logical plan, now that I've gained more info about my actual travel details.  I expect that I'll fly into SD and out of LA....

But dang!  I love trains. Not "subways" really, but trains that cut through the countryside and backyard ghettos and random shiat.  Once took a train from Luizhou to Guilin, loved it.  Took a train from Swindon to Cardiff.  Sweet.  I'd like to take the train(s) from LA to SD, but honestly, I'm gonna be tired and ready to head home, so if I can get the into SD and out of LA flights, I'll do it.


not sure if you will come back to check this- but ive been all over the usa by train, and the surfliner is the one to take..nothing like it...right on the coast at sunset over the pacific blue...it is a trip to take.
 
2013-04-24 07:28:26 AM
FarkFarkFarkGOOSE:

not sure if you will come back to check this- but ive been all over the usa by train, and the surfliner is the one to take..nothing like it...right on the coast at sunset over the pacific blue...it is a trip to take.

It sounds like it might be worth doing.  A hotel in Old Town is where I'll be staying initially anyway.  Maybe instead of stashing a rental car where I normally do, I can just leave my extra stuff at the hotel front desk.  I've done that in Korea in the past - not sure about US hotel policies.  Or maybe just don't bring any "extra stuff".

My first train ride was when I was a kid, about 12 or 13.  A friend of mine and I hopped into an open boxcar on a freight train at a rural grain elevator.  Fortunately for us, it stopped in town about 7 miles away and we hopped out and walked back home along the tracks.
 
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