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(The New York Times)   NYT explains why NYC isn't really that expensive after all. Subby nods approvingly while eating $50 take out for one in a $2,200/month studio apartment. Reasonable debate comparing regional costs of living not found to the right   (nytimes.com) divider line 250
    More: Interesting, NYT, New York, per capita incomes, Metropolitan Opera, Wharton School, USDA Organic, young professional, eating  
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6756 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2013 at 10:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-23 12:18:24 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: But many cannot live confined like that.


I find the idea that people in other areas ordinarily range further than the boundaries of the area conveniently served by New York's transportation systems to be highly suspect. One of the things I find creepiest about small town life (even here, in a mid-size city) are the number of people who rarely get to other parts of their own county or even leave their houses for anything but work and groceries.

Plus, considering that JetBlue makes it pretty easy to visit most other cities and a number of tropical islands at your leisure, I'd say it's far less confining in that regard. It's actually easier for us to overnight in NYC before flying out of JFK than it is to visit just about anywhere from our regional airport, which requires at least 2 connections for anywhere except major hubs.

/ Not ignoring the point that that requires money that might be eaten by housing, just saying. People in small town America are not exactly nomads roaming the countryside. I find it highly unlikely that the necessity of car ownership causes them to actually get out more.
 
2013-04-23 12:20:57 PM  
Wow makes my $700/mo freshly renovated one bedroom with its own parking space seem like chump change.
 
2013-04-23 12:22:13 PM  

Bill Frist: CtrlAltDestroy: But if one is the kind of person who never feels the need to leave a major city, then I guess that doesn't matter. They're severally limiting their experience in life by doing so, but that's their choice. Those people also aren't allowed to talk about non city living as they lack the experience required to actually understand it.

Man, your logic is really poor. Living in a city w/o a car doesn't "severally limit" your life experience. First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs. But even without that, you do realize that.... planes and trains and buses and many other types of transportation exists, not just cars?

I come from a small city and my family all have cars. They rarely travel further than I do on a daily basis in NYC. And they travel to OTHER cities and other parts of the world much less than me.

Some people have cars and drive all over the country and continent. But most don't gain "life experience" with their car. They just shuttle between home, work and McDonalds.


it's kind of weird, the relationship between person, car, and location.  i used to have a car.  then it rained one day and my car went under water. so, now i ride my bike, take buses, streetcars, and drive the wife's car as necessary.  but, I really don't feel like i live somewhere until i get out of the car and travel by foot, bike, and public transportation.  it's like the urban version of survival camping.  so long as you're in the car, you're more like a tourist, who has a home, a destination, and a vehicle.  always walled in, always contained.  like living in a bubble. once your travel is in the city, not through the city, it's like you live there a little more.

but, people can still rent a car for vacation.  or fly or whatever.  i've never met a person who is not horribly poor that has been prevented from vacation because they didn't own enough cars.
 
2013-04-23 12:22:48 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Hm. Where is this $2,200/month studio apartment?


Roosevelt Island.
 
2013-04-23 12:23:33 PM  

Hipchewy1: pute kisses like a man: Hipchewy1: sigdiamond2000: James!: I spent 23 dollars on Vietnamese food the other day, had it delivered to my apartment after 11 at night and had enough for lunch the next day.

Uhhhh...ummmm...HISPTER!!11

Recently I ordered a gluten free pulled pork, red onion, horseradish-yogurt  waffle, had it delivered. With a side of Kale chips. $25 with tip. It felt a little hipstery

not sure if you know this or not, but, as far as i understand, all pork is gluten free.  gluten is like some wheat thing.  you would have to add gluten to pork, which doesn't seem sensible. i've noticed products have lately presented themselves as gluten free.  but, those products have no relation to wheat whatsoever.  so, i just want to warn you, often "gluten-free" is as valuable as salt advertising that it's sugar free.

I'm well aware, I have Celiac disease. The waffle was gluten free.


sorry for coming off like a douche, i reacted before reading the other ingredients.  it was the notion of advertising gluten free pork that put me in a tizzy.  should have finished reading, would have found the waffle.
 
2013-04-23 12:27:09 PM  
TFA: "living in New York is actually a relative bargain for the wealthy"

So... your massively higher fixed costs are justified by savings in discretionary spending?
i.e. *thousands* more in monthly housing costs are *offset* by 20% cheaper foie gras and $3 less for a manicure?

Fantastic 'article' and 'research'.
 
2013-04-23 12:30:40 PM  

DarkVader: Look, it's all about what YOU value in life.

If you want to be able to walk down the block and go to a bar, a restaurant, a nightclub, a museum, a park, a theatre, or whatever else you can think of, you want to live in a big city.  If you're interested in staying home, cooking for yourself, watching your home theater, owning a car, and having a big backyard, you probably want a suburb of a smaller city.  If you want to grow your own food, shoot your guns for target practice, hunt on your own land, ride 4-wheelers, or that sort of thing, you want to live in a rural area.

Different people value different things, you all know this, and you're arguing about it anyway.


Agree 100%.

But I still think there's another real estate bubble waiting to pop in the waaaay overpriced big cities like NYC, San Francisco, DC, Vancouver and Toronto. I'm pretty convinced the Great Recession 2.0 is coming later this decade when that bubble pops PLUS the college cost bubble pops around the same time.
 
2013-04-23 12:32:08 PM  

enforcerpsu: I simply don't understand why anyone would choose to live in NYC when you can live just about anywhere else without all the hassle.


This all depends on how you define hassle. In NYC, I can see all my friends easily without any hassle, I can find great parties or events easily, I have the biggest resource for seeing touring bands / musuems / contemporary art / comedy shows / literary readings / theater productions / etc., I have a near infinite spectrum of food options, and so on and so forth.

My point is not to say that city living is better than rural living or not, but that different things are a hassle in different locations. If you live in a small city or live in the suburbs, merely going out to eat at a nice restaurant can be a hassle. In NYC, I have a ton of great restaurants literally less than 3 blocks fro my apartment.

In another location I'd have to drive 15-30 minutes to even get to a restaurant, and my options would be severely limited. If I wanted a unique cuisine, I might have to cook it myself, which is much more of  a hassle than walking 1 block.

On the other hand, some things in NYC ARE a bigger hassle. But it really isn't correct to say that living in NYC has more of a hassle than anywhere else. It depends on what you like to do.
 
2013-04-23 12:37:47 PM  

Stan Lee's Ghost: FLMountainMan: College towns are the way to go.  I live downtown in a three bedroom home with a $750/month mortgage, walk to work, get to see ACC basketball, football, and baseball, usually for free or dirt cheap.  Also get up-and-coming bands in town to play to all the college kids.  And a constantly churning supply of 18-26 year old women really tips the dating dynamic in the men's favor.  Best of both worlds.

Moving there next summer.  Book it, done!  I can't wait.


Brother!
 
2013-04-23 12:39:46 PM  
My $1,300 1BR in Astoria is getting a kick, etc.

/rather have a $300 mortgage in the woods
 
2013-04-23 12:41:59 PM  

Bill Frist: CtrlAltDestroy: A vehicle also affords A LOT of freedom. There's no ties to bus/train time schedules. Or worrying about missing the last train of the night. Or having to wonder or figure out if the available transportation is will where you want it to go. I have 2 cars and 3 motorcycles. I enjoy driving/riding and working on motorized toys.

Dude, none of this really applies to NYC, at least not in the expensive locations (most of manhattan and the cool parts of Brooklyn) where public transportation is plentiful. I've never "missed the last train." That doesn't happen. 

public transportation is actually QUICKER than having a car in NYC. Quicker thank taxis too most of the time. In a major city, cars are limiting, not freeing. You have to move them, pay for them, and deal with them wiithout much benefit.


compared with driving in Manhattan, mass transit is faster.

but outside of Manhattan, the argument falls apart very quickly.
 
2013-04-23 12:42:22 PM  

The Dynamite Monkey: Other than apartments, you can get almost everything cheap in NYC.

If you have a rent stabilized apartment, as I did for a decade, Manhattan can be very cheap indeed.


I had a rent-controlled apartment in San Francisco for 12 years......but it was a large 3 bedroom Victorian flat with a fireplace and huge windows 2 blocks from Golden Gate park.  $1,200.  Only had housemates the first few years.  Was a lot in 1995 but a steal in 2005.  Seems like a better deal than what you can find in NYC.
No car does help expenses, you don't need one all the time in the city.
 
2013-04-23 12:43:31 PM  

Longtime Lurker: Chicago FTW. Virtually everything NYC has at half the cost.

/1200 for a brand new gut rehab 1br, and I'm really overpaying compared to my neighbors.
//not getting into the pizza debate


Is that before or after the Alderman's ask for their cut?

/Can make that joke
//b/c the City Councilpeople here wouldn't be any better
///and this a Democrat saying this about NY Dems
 
2013-04-23 12:44:24 PM  

mjohnson71: DarkVader: Look, it's all about what YOU value in life.

If you want to be able to walk down the block and go to a bar, a restaurant, a nightclub, a museum, a park, a theatre, or whatever else you can think of, you want to live in a big city.  If you're interested in staying home, cooking for yourself, watching your home theater, owning a car, and having a big backyard, you probably want a suburb of a smaller city.  If you want to grow your own food, shoot your guns for target practice, hunt on your own land, ride 4-wheelers, or that sort of thing, you want to live in a rural area.

Different people value different things, you all know this, and you're arguing about it anyway.

Agree 100%.

But I still think there's another real estate bubble waiting to pop in the waaaay overpriced big cities like NYC, San Francisco, DC, Vancouver and Toronto. I'm pretty convinced the Great Recession 2.0 is coming later this decade when that bubble pops PLUS the college cost bubble pops around the same time.


=================

Depends on the price of fuel.  A huge price hike in fuel will make urban living more attractive.  High density living is much more energy efficient.  If fuel costs continue to rise, you're going to see the death of the suburbs.....especially the outer ring burbs that went up during the last housing boom.  It's the suburbs that have no mass transit links that are going to die.
 
2013-04-23 12:46:13 PM  

Marine1: [nbcprosoccertalk.files.wordpress.com image 315x272]
"Hey, Thierry, do you know why does Red Bull come in cans?"

[www.topnews.in image 335x500]
"No, why, Jimmy?"

[www.sportsvuesoccer.com image 360x322]
"Because they don't have any Cups."

[injuryleague.com image 460x288]

[www.mlssoccer.com image 620x350]


You really wanna go there man?  'Cause you're not going to like my response. >:)
 
2013-04-23 12:48:25 PM  

mjohnson71: But I still think there's another real estate bubble waiting to pop in the waaaay overpriced big cities like NYC, San Francisco, DC, Vancouver and Toronto. I'm pretty convinced the Great Recession 2.0 is coming later this decade when that bubble pops PLUS the college cost bubble pops around the same time.


All of those cities are relatively cheap compared to international big money cities like Hong Kong and Tokyo.

The fact is, those cities offer jobs and human capital. You can be the best developer or financial wiz in the world but unless you are in close proximity to other like-minded and well-educated individuals you will never have the human capital to build a Apple or a Goldman Sachs. Talent breeds talent, and although people could plausibly work in Kansas City Missouri and make good money due to the internet, you cannot make the connections you can in a big, educated city. Hell, that's how Silicon Valley was founded. NYC itself used to be a manufacturing town until it reinvented itself into a financial powerhouse in the 1980's - and it wasn't anything else that did it but human interaction and capital. These places bring human capital together and make shiat tons of money - that's why big city real estate (particularly the prime areas) have already rebounded from the recession.
 
2013-04-23 12:50:05 PM  

Bill Frist: Man, your logic is really poor. Living in a city w/o a car doesn't "severally limit" your life experience.


As long as you intend to remain within the city limits, no.

First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs.

This is opinion. Not fact.

But even without that, you do realize that.... planes and trains and buses and many other types of transportation exists, not just cars?

Been there, done that. This all requires planning, forethought, and restrictions.

Flying is a pain in the ass. You have to arrive 2+ hours early, wait through lines, fly, wait for your luggage, and then have additional transportation pre scheduled when you arrive. Trains and buses still work on a schedule and is still confined to predestined routes. Even things like the MegaBus are limiting.

All are based on schedules and things like ZipCars require going out of your way to find whatever vehicle you happen to get. It's also one that many people use and abuse. I like my cars. I've driven cars that I don't like. It's not the same thing as walking out the front door and jumping into a vehicle that's parked in the drive way that you hand selected for comfort, ride, etc.

Using any of those almost eliminates spontaneity. Feel the need to visit a new place? Gotta hope the bus/train/subway goes that way. There's taxis for direct lines of travel, but that get's expensive and you're still reliant on someone else.

I come from a small city and my family all have cars. They rarely travel further than I do on a daily basis in NYC. And they travel to OTHER cities and other parts of the world much less than me.

So? Your family isn't everyone. I happen to drive and travel plenty and log about 15k miles a year. I can either take my turbocharged convertible, my hardtop convertible 4x4, my sportbike, my cruiser, or my classic 60's bike. Or my bicycle for that matter. All at the drop of a hat to any destination I choose for as long as I want. I have A shiat ton of freedom because I chose to be outside of the city limits. I can experience the city, suburbs, and rural areas on my schedule the way that I want to. I have no desire to limit myself to a congested, crowded, noisy city.

Some people have cars and drive all over the country and continent. But most don't gain "life experience" with their car. They just shuttle between home, work and McDonalds.

Maybe that's the way your family works. But there's a HUGE citation needed for the idea that most don't gain any life experiences with the freedom afforded by a vehicle.

Because no one ever goes to other cities for festivals, conventions, sporting events, concerts, art shows (and yes, I've done this personally), and the like. My brother didn't just take a road trip down South to visit his girlfriend's family and had a blast experiencing a new area, new people, and had new experiences thanks to her family. People totally don't go to take a vacation to remote areas where there is NO public transit. It's not like I used to work with people who would take weekend trips to Michigan to go fishing and enjoy the countryside. I've totally never traveled to another state on a whim to visit friends and large weekend long festivals. I've totally never taken a week long driving trip with my long term girlfriend seeing nothing but new places and things just for the fun of it.

But hey, none of those could possibly be life experiences at all.

In another location I'd have to drive 15-30 minutes to even get to a restaurant, and my options would be severely limited. If I wanted a unique cuisine, I might have to cook it myself, which is much more of  a hassle than walking 1 block.

I can drive 10-15 minutes in one of 3 different directions and hit areas with 15-30+ different restaurants of many different types. Not everywhere is the boonies.

If you want to stay within the city limits and almost never leave it, then don't own a vehicle. If it works for you then it does. But not everyone has the desire to live that way. I did it for a few years. it was AWFUL. I'm happy visiting a big city but I get out once my fun is had.

Your way of living isn't superior to anyone but you. I acknowledge the same about me and my choices. But pull your head out of it's dark hole and realize that not everyone is like you. Some find your way of life to be constricting, confining, and generally unpleasant. Not everyone lives the way that your family seems to.
 
2013-04-23 12:51:31 PM  
My mortgage payment is less than $2000/mo., and the nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away. The only gangs in my 'hood are deer and turkeys, my sons play outside and run around without fear of traffic or strangers. I can tack up any of my horses and go for a relaxing ride anytime I like, my dogs have pretty much never worn a leash. If I want good Vietnamese food, OK, I'm pretty much screwed, but I've never wanted that, and likely never will.

All this works for me and makes me perfectly happy. Your results may vary. And I fail to see how this makes me any "better" or "worse" than anyone else.
 
2013-04-23 12:52:09 PM  

pute kisses like a man: Bill Frist: CtrlAltDestroy: But if one is the kind of person who never feels the need to leave a major city, then I guess that doesn't matter. They're severally limiting their experience in life by doing so, but that's their choice. Those people also aren't allowed to talk about non city living as they lack the experience required to actually understand it.

Man, your logic is really poor. Living in a city w/o a car doesn't "severally limit" your life experience. First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs. But even without that, you do realize that.... planes and trains and buses and many other types of transportation exists, not just cars?

I come from a small city and my family all have cars. They rarely travel further than I do on a daily basis in NYC. And they travel to OTHER cities and other parts of the world much less than me.

Some people have cars and drive all over the country and continent. But most don't gain "life experience" with their car. They just shuttle between home, work and McDonalds.

it's kind of weird, the relationship between person, car, and location.  i used to have a car.  then it rained one day and my car went under water. so, now i ride my bike, take buses, streetcars, and drive the wife's car as necessary.  but, I really don't feel like i live somewhere until i get out of the car and travel by foot, bike, and public transportation.  it's like the urban version of survival camping.  so long as you're in the car, you're more like a tourist, who has a home, a destination, and a vehicle.  always walled in, always contained.  like living in a bubble. once your travel is in the city, not through the city, it's like you live there a little more.

but, people can still rent a car for vacation.  or fly or whatever.  i've never met a person who is not horribly poor that has been prevented from vacation because they didn't own enough cars.


yes, exactly  Between Zipcar, Amtrak, airplanes, friends with cars, and buses I've never once felt trapped in NYC or unable to travel.
 
2013-04-23 12:52:14 PM  

James!: CtrlAltDestroy: Why is it so hard to believe that people can own large areas of land? You're either trolling something inane or extremely dense.

Or I'm making a joke using an SNL reference.  Untwist your pants.


So, you start by making a claim that no one has something. Someone shows up who has it. You respond with a poor joke? Not, "Oh I was mistaken" or "I still don't believe you" or an actual rebuttal. Awesome.

freewill: I find the idea that people in other areas ordinarily range further than the boundaries of the area conveniently served by New York's transportation systems to be highly suspect.


NYC is 468 sq mi. To make it a square is about 21.6 x 21.6 miles. 20 miles is my drive to work. It's not that odd that someone would travel 20-50+ miles for something. And in a straight line without other stops (ala bus or train). My friend's daughter recently drove 3 hours to the state capitol just for fun. I know people who make frequent weekend trips out of town and/or out of state.

This has been fun and all, but with this, I'm out. Call it fleeing if you will, and I'm sure that someone will, but I've wasted enough time with this today. Off to finish work then go home and wrench on my motorcycle in prep for the nice weather.
 
2013-04-23 12:54:25 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: So, you start by making a claim that no one has something. Someone shows up who has it. You respond with a poor joke? Not, "Oh I was mistaken" or "I still don't believe you" or an actual rebuttal. Awesome.


You're so angry.
 
2013-04-23 12:54:49 PM  

dumbobruni: compared with driving in Manhattan, mass transit is faster.

but outside of Manhattan, the argument falls apart very quickly.


I buy that, but in NYC--other than occasional trips to queens or the beach---I'm either traveling in a a specific part of brooklyn (areas from Greenpoint to cobble hill basically) or traveling into and out of manhattan. For the latter, trains are quicker. For the former, biking tends to be if not quicker then much less of a hassle than driving.
 
2013-04-23 12:55:51 PM  

Another Government Employee: Ethertap: I live in south Georgia, I pay 500 bucks a month for a 1000 square-foot apartment.  In return for my tiny rent, I get to live in a town with no bar, no nightlife, no restaurant variety, and no culture.

When I got my job offer here I thought the pay was pretty lousy, 10% under national average for new hires in my field.  Then I looked up cost of living in the area and realized why it was that low.

The way I look at living in a place like New York, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco (among others) is that despite the high cost of living, at least theres things to do, places to go, and interesting things to eat.

And you get high humidity to boot.

How far out of Atlanta or Jax are you?


almost four hours to atl and a little over three to jax.
 
2013-04-23 12:55:58 PM  

Rev.K: James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker. DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!

That's fantastic, but that cilantro has to go.

Devil weed.


I hate it when other people eat things I don't like.
 
2013-04-23 12:59:24 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: NYC is 468 sq mi. To make it a square is about 21.6 x 21.6 miles. 20 miles is my drive to work. It's not that odd that someone would travel 20-50+ miles for something. And in a straight line without other stops (ala bus or train). My friend's daughter recently drove 3 hours to the state capitol just for fun. I know people who make frequent weekend trips out of town and/or out of state.


Dude...

A) Transportation in NYC goes further than its city borders.

B) Dunno why this has to keep being stressed to you, but Amtrak, buses, zipcar and plenty of other options are available to travel even farther than that. Plenty of NYers make frequent weekend trips without owning a car.

C) the average person on an average day does not travel very far in there car. That really shouldn't be a controversial statement.
 
2013-04-23 12:59:40 PM  
If you like to eat at great restaurants and bar hop 6 nights a week AND you can afford it AND you are able to attract acceptable members of the sex you prefer, you can't beat NYC.

If you just want to work, go home, go to the gym, cook and watch TV, go live somewhere else.

/I miss my single days in NYC. Well, the last 2-3 years when I made enough money to truly enjoy it
 
2013-04-23 01:00:08 PM  

dchurch0: I love Nebraska.


of course you do
teddyroosevelt.comelementalherbs.com
 
2013-04-23 01:00:32 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: This has been fun and all, but with this, I'm out. Call it fleeing if you will, and I'm sure that someone will, but I've wasted enough time with this today. Off to finish work then go home and wrench on my motorcycle in prep for the nice weather.


COWARD!

No, this is Fark. We're all wasting time with this.

Enjoy the weather. As an upstater, I'm still coming out of that "let me start my car so I can thaw the seats out, I need to go somewhere in half an hour, provided the bridges aren't closed" mode.

/ Here comes the rainy season! Then the flood season! Then 2 beautiful autumn weeks before we get 6 more months of winter!
 
2013-04-23 01:02:06 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs.

This is opinion. Not fact.


Lol, dude your cliche Ford commercial conception of "freedom" and "life experience" is hardly a "fact"!!!

Although your obtuseness is kind of cute.
 
2013-04-23 01:02:06 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Bill Frist: Man, your logic is really poor. Living in a city w/o a car doesn't "severally limit" your life experience.

As long as you intend to remain within the city limits, no.

First off, major cities offer far more life experiences than the suburbs.

This is opinion. Not fact.


Every last goddamn bit of this thread is Opinion, you Dolt
 
2013-04-23 01:08:15 PM  

James!: CtrlAltDestroy: So, you start by making a claim that no one has something. Someone shows up who has it. You respond with a poor joke? Not, "Oh I was mistaken" or "I still don't believe you" or an actual rebuttal. Awesome.

You're so angry.


Profile says "Chicago-ish area". Since it doesn't say "Downstate Illinois" then he's a Chicagoan who thinks he lives in the "sticks"; i.e. just outside of Downtown Chicago.

Many Chicagoans have a serious superiority complex over anyone who doesn't care to live in Chicago, and an inferiority complex with NewYorkers. As a former downstate Illinois resident, I want them to form their own goddamn state and leave us the F alone already.

\I was in Champaign when the Bears had to use U of I's field for awhile
\\it was lock your doors and hide the kids on those days, what a fabulous flood of SUV-driving @ssholes that thundered down I57 then
 
2013-04-23 01:10:56 PM  
Wow, hearty lol at someone from Chicago trying to feel superior to NYC.

Chicago is a pretty shiatty city. I get wanting to live in rural America (I was raised there myself), cool small towns, or even cool non-NYC big cities.

But Chicago is ultimate "I couldn't make it anywhere else" bummer city.
 
2013-04-23 01:13:23 PM  

CheapEngineer: Many Chicagoans have a serious superiority complex over anyone who doesn't care to live in Chicago, and an inferiority complex with NewYorkers. As a former downstate Illinois resident, I want them to form their own goddamn state and leave us the F alone already.


Where, exactly?

Williamson County, here. Far enough down that it stops being "downstate" and turns into "southern".
 
2013-04-23 01:15:08 PM  
One tidbit I'd like to toss out is that when I was a young man makin diddly squat living in an apartment, one of the things I missed most was having a grill.  That was the first thing I bought when I moved into a rental house.  I would never live anywhere without one again.  So I guess I'm on the suburbs -> rural side.  I would miss sporting events and music if I were in the boonies, but I might get over it with lots of land, nature, and animals to grill.
 
2013-04-23 01:15:24 PM  
One day a group of New Yorkers was talking about the city, and one of them said:  You know, I do enjoy the crime, the noise, the angry exchanges with strangers, and the pollution, but I just don't think it is quite cold enough.  That's how Chicago got started.  ;-)
 
2013-04-23 01:17:17 PM  

dchurch0: I love Nebraska.


I prefer some of the other places on Stone St, though will admit the bartendresses are easy on the eyes.
 
2013-04-23 01:19:40 PM  

Carn: One tidbit I'd like to toss out is that when I was a young man makin diddly squat living in an apartment, one of the things I missed most was having a grill.  That was the first thing I bought when I moved into a rental house.  I would never live anywhere without one again.  So I guess I'm on the suburbs -> rural side.  I would miss sporting events and music if I were in the boonies, but I might get over it with lots of land, nature, and animals to grill.


While backyard/grill space is somewhat rarer in NYC, it isn't THAT rare you can't get it. I have plenty of friends (20s/30s employed but not with any amazingly high paying jobs) with backyards and grills (and others who grill on the rooftops).
 
2013-04-23 01:21:04 PM  
You have to live in brooklyn though. In Manhattan, pretty hard to get grill space.
 
2013-04-23 01:22:18 PM  

Bill Frist: Carn: One tidbit I'd like to toss out is that when I was a young man makin diddly squat living in an apartment, one of the things I missed most was having a grill.  That was the first thing I bought when I moved into a rental house.  I would never live anywhere without one again.  So I guess I'm on the suburbs -> rural side.  I would miss sporting events and music if I were in the boonies, but I might get over it with lots of land, nature, and animals to grill.

While backyard/grill space is somewhat rarer in NYC, it isn't THAT rare you can't get it. I have plenty of friends (20s/30s employed but not with any amazingly high paying jobs) with backyards and grills (and others who grill on the rooftops).


That's true and same for rowhouses/townhouses in and around DC.  I guess I'm really only putting my foot down for apartment buildings - it's against fairfax county code to allow grills on your balcony or it was anyway.  LAME (and understandable).
 
2013-04-23 01:23:57 PM  
Them's the breaks when you live somewhere desirable that doesn't have room for expansion.  Folks are actually paying way more than asking price for studios and 1 bedrooms out here in SF upwards of 3500+ for 1 bedrooms and a nice 2200/mo studio in a good part of town would be considered a steal.  Sure you can still find the super cheap 1500/mo studios in the outer mission or the rougher parts of town but by no means was subby far off the mark for the hottest markets in the country.  

I've been in a 2 bedroom loft for the last 7 years and still only pay $3600/month and if I moved out the same place would hit the market at $6000/month and be leased the very next day.
 
2013-04-23 01:33:55 PM  
I like the second-tier size of Milwaukee, the close proximity to Chicago for larger museums, and the access to the great outdoors driving 10 minutes west provides out here in the suburbs.

--25-minute commute from 18 miles away
--2-bedroom house with almost half-acre of land for $700/month (plus taxes, so $1,000/month)
--every store I want or need is literally within a 1-mile radius

I can see why some people would want the hustle and bustle of NYC or downton Chicago, but that's not me.  I like being within a few miles of the trap shooting club and a short jaunt to many different campgrounds & lakes.

But during the week have a job in the "fashionable" part of downtown MKE.
 
2013-04-23 01:37:05 PM  

Algebrat: Living in NYC is about the only way that I can plausibly pay down my student loans.  Both my salary and my expenses are twice as high as they would be for the same job/lifestyle in Pittsburgh, and that means the difference between the two is twice as high.  It's actually quite possible to live cheaply in NYC if your intent is financial freedom rather than getting the "experience".

\ $600 for an Upper West Side appartment.
\\ ok, it's w. 144th street.
\\\ with 2 other roommates.


This.

Paying off debt in Chicago, where I was getting offers for $45K.  Difficult.
Paying off debt with a roommate in the Bay Area, where I make $72K.  Well, I paid off 2/3rds of my student loans in 4 months (helped by an enormous tax return.  And I'm still $25K in debt after the student loans, so it'll be a couple years).

/Of course, making $60K (~$45K after tax) in Detroit and mooching off Dad (~$550/month in rent total) would've had me totally debt-free by the end of the year because the last time I did that, I kept 80% of my takehome pay.
//Or taking the $20K signing bonus from Amazon in Seattle plus relocation, where I'd be debt-free right now
 
2013-04-23 01:45:15 PM  

AgentBang: To be fair, the article does say that for wealthy people NYC is financially a good deal. Of coure wealthy is a relative term for those who are considered to be wealthy in NYC vs. wealthy somewhere else. But for poorer people it's not so great. Which generally means, everyone else.

I'm in Park Slope and managed to bag a 2k/month 2 BR. Hoping that we can stay for a very very long time as I am not wealthy.

Wish I had the money to buy in Park Slope 10 years ago when you could get a place on the cheap.


I was in the market for Park Slope homes ten years ago. They weren't much cheaper then unless you were looking over at 4th Avenue.

OTOH, my Mom failed to convince my Dad to buy a brownstone there for under $50K in the late 60's because he balked at the fact it didn't have a driveway.
 
2013-04-23 01:47:01 PM  
NYC is like the hipster "culture" infecting it for the past decade. It is rich, lazy and obvious. The same bland almart and piggly wiggly mentality under the nom de plum of cheap jacks and trader joes. Now that even therougher edges like Harlem, DUMBO, wberg, etc have been smoothed out by spoiled trusties, it lost the truth that real writers, artists and musicians lent it in prior decades. I'm sorry but blogging about your 15 dollar three pork and cilantro sandwich is no less banal than a nascar fan praising fried twinkies. Coast to coast, the same vapid stupidity found in flyover towns is found in D. Trump'ed first tier "work-shop-play" cities, just in a different flavor. The uniqueness of a singular Warhol has been supplanted by a proliferation ofnumerous assholes who permeate the city like an oil slick, covering the mundane with the absurd. Screw mickey mouse, skinny jeans and non functional horn rimmed glasses. Give me back the hookers, CBGBs and The Roxy. Buying organics and growing a few tomatos while you sop up bukowski and the lumineers doesntmake you edgy or relevant. From this nyc native- Fark you hipster from Harrisburg, you came, you saw, you ruined.
 
2013-04-23 01:52:44 PM  

Bill Frist: Yeah... New Yorkers are not subsidized. We pay far more in taxes, and actually subsidize the shiatty rural parts.


The shiatty rural parts that actually feed you. And build your furniture. And all the other shinies that you desire.
 
2013-04-23 01:54:25 PM  

James!: There's three kinds of pork in that motherfarker.  DID YOU OBSERVE THOSE WORDS?

THREE KINDS OF PORK!


Any long pork in there?
 
2013-04-23 01:56:37 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Bill Frist: Yeah... New Yorkers are not subsidized. We pay far more in taxes, and actually subsidize the shiatty rural parts.

The shiatty rural parts that actually feed you. And build your furniture. And all the other shinies that you desire.


The delusional nature of rural america is kind of staggaring. You really think that the big cities have huge economies caue they don't produce things people want to buy? 

Anyway, California produces, by far, the most food of any state. Podunk north dakota, or wharever, isn't really feeding america.
 
2013-04-23 02:02:40 PM  

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: The uniqueness of a singular Warhol


I was with you until right here. Pretty much destroys the whole rest of the post.
 
2013-04-23 02:04:52 PM  

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: NYC is like the hipster "culture" infecting it for the past decade. It is rich, lazy and obvious. The same bland almart and piggly wiggly mentality under the nom de plum of cheap jacks and trader joes. Now that even therougher edges like Harlem, DUMBO, wberg, etc have been smoothed out by spoiled trusties, it lost the truth that real writers, artists and musicians lent it in prior decades. I'm sorry but blogging about your 15 dollar three pork and cilantro sandwich is no less banal than a nascar fan praising fried twinkies. Coast to coast, the same vapid stupidity found in flyover towns is found in D. Trump'ed first tier "work-shop-play" cities, just in a different flavor. The uniqueness of a singular Warhol has been supplanted by a proliferation ofnumerous assholes who permeate the city like an oil slick, covering the mundane with the absurd. Screw mickey mouse, skinny jeans and non functional horn rimmed glasses. Give me back the hookers, CBGBs and The Roxy. Buying organics and growing a few tomatos while you sop up bukowski and the lumineers doesntmake you edgy or relevant. From this nyc native- Fark you hipster from Harrisburg, you came, you saw, you ruined.


You forget that New Yorkers still live in actual New York. It's called Queens, the Bronx, and Eastern Brooklyn and... sigh... Staten Island. That being said I find only new comers to "glamorize" NYC in the 1980's and 70s. While I do find it disconcerting not to have the "toughness" the city used to have (Wisconsin socialite wannabes in the LES? WTF?), I will also be the first to admit that the quality of life in NYC is drastically better than it was 25+ years ago.
 
2013-04-23 02:10:15 PM  

FarkFarkFarkGOOSE: NYC is like the hipster "culture" infecting it for the past decade. It is rich, lazy and obvious. The same bland almart and piggly wiggly mentality under the nom de plum of cheap jacks and trader joes. Now that even therougher edges like Harlem, DUMBO, wberg, etc have been smoothed out by spoiled trusties, it lost the truth that real writers, artists and musicians lent it in prior decades. I'm sorry but blogging about your 15 dollar three pork and cilantro sandwich is no less banal than a nascar fan praising fried twinkies. Coast to coast, the same vapid stupidity found in flyover towns is found in D. Trump'ed first tier "work-shop-play" cities, just in a different flavor. The uniqueness of a singular Warhol has been supplanted by a proliferation ofnumerous assholes who permeate the city like an oil slick, covering the mundane with the absurd. Screw mickey mouse, skinny jeans and non functional horn rimmed glasses. Give me back the hookers, CBGBs and The Roxy. Buying organics and growing a few tomatos while you sop up bukowski and the lumineers doesntmake you edgy or relevant. From this nyc native- Fark you hipster from Harrisburg, you came, you saw, you ruined.


This NYC native has noted that you've already pointed out in this thread how much you wish NYC looked the way it did before Guliani was mayor, CBGB's was closed (your punk-rock bona fides, got it) and all these people who came to the city after you did showed up. I for one do not miss the crime of the 80's; it wasn't until I left NYC for college that I realized that everyone didn't have multiple stories about guns being pointed at them and their friends being shot at.

I also wonder if you're actually a native if you define the "edges" of the city as Harlem, DUMBO and Williamburg, three areas either in Manhattan or bordered by the East River. If you really feel the need for rough-hewn authenticity may I suggest a visit to Jamaica, Queens, Far Rock or East New York, Brooklyn.

And I know a great place that has been frying twinkies in Brooklyn for over a decade. (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/15/dining/fry-that-twinkie-but-hold-th e -chips.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/15/dining/fry-that-twinki e-but-hold-the -chips.html )

/or was the "uniqueness of a singular warhol" a tip this was a troll? If so, well played.
 
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