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(Talking Points Memo)   "Did the FBI bungle a Russian tip?" Is this a headline or the opening line to a sexy Putin/Obama bear wrestling slash fic?   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 57
    More: Interesting, Years Ago, FBI, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Russians, russian embassy, J. Edgar Hoover Building, FSB, Tsarnaev  
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1041 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Apr 2013 at 9:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-23 08:11:41 AM  
Why Didn't The FBI Do More To Investigate The Boston Bombing Suspect Two Years Ago?
I'd say that's begging the question. Maybe they did more to investigate, but, for some reason, don't really want to talk about it.
 
2013-04-23 08:32:59 AM  

DoctorCal: Why Didn't The FBI Do More To Investigate The Boston Bombing Suspect Two Years Ago?
I'd say that's begging the question. Maybe they did more to investigate, but, for some reason, don't really want to talk about it.


Or maybe they investigated them and didn't find any reason to be suspicious. Just because Russia says "You should probably watch these guys" doesn't mean that anything indicating a possible crime was ever found.
 
2013-04-23 08:35:28 AM  
Fark is not your personal erotica site,  Subby...
 
2013-04-23 08:40:34 AM  

nekom: DoctorCal: Why Didn't The FBI Do More To Investigate The Boston Bombing Suspect Two Years Ago?
I'd say that's begging the question. Maybe they did more to investigate, but, for some reason, don't really want to talk about it.

Or maybe they investigated them and didn't find any reason to be suspicious. Just because Russia says "You should probably watch these guys" doesn't mean that anything indicating a possible crime was ever found.


especially since they're suspicious of every Chechen

Paris1127: Fark is not your personal erotica site,  Subby...


you have a thing against Russian presidential bear-wrestling slash fic?
 
2013-04-23 08:44:09 AM  
Of course, this WILL no doubt be the next chicken the GOP decides to have a go at, regardless of the facts of the situation.  This is the new Benghazi, just wanted to call that now.
 
2013-04-23 08:47:46 AM  

nekom: DoctorCal: Why Didn't The FBI Do More To Investigate The Boston Bombing Suspect Two Years Ago?
I'd say that's begging the question. Maybe they did more to investigate, but, for some reason, don't really want to talk about it.

Or maybe they investigated them and didn't find any reason to be suspicious. Just because Russia says "You should probably watch these guys" doesn't mean that anything indicating a possible crime was ever found.


The exchange went like this

Russia "You might want to look at this guy"
FBI "Ok, thanks for the heads up"
FBI *looks into guy
FBI "Anything in particular we need to focus on cause we're not seeing anything here"
Russia *silence

We asked for more info just in case, never got anymore leads so it got left on someones desk somewhere.
 
2013-04-23 08:52:17 AM  
Putin's not interested in bunga bunga with sissies

nimg.sulekha.comwww.enduringamerica.com  cdn.fd.uproxx.com
 
2013-04-23 09:21:20 AM  

nekom: Of course, this WILL no doubt be the next chicken the GOP decides to have a go at, regardless of the facts of the situation.  This is the new Benghazi, just wanted to call that now.


THIS IS OBAMA'S BENGHAZI!!!


But I have to wonder how much of this is an "all blackbirds are birds, but not all birds are blackbirds" thing. As in, in hindsight the guy's suspiciousness seems apparent  but without knowing just how much signal-to-noise there is with other people traveling similarly, we can't know if it really should have put up more than a few red flags.
 
2013-04-23 09:25:39 AM  

Bloody William: But I have to wonder how much of this is an "all blackbirds are birds, but not all birds are blackbirds" thing. As in, in hindsight the guy's suspiciousness seems apparent but without knowing just how much signal-to-noise there is with other people traveling similarly, we can't know if it really should have put up more than a few red flags.


well that and Russia thinking a Chechnya-descended Chechen making trips to Chechnya being not particularly alarming to non-Russians
 
2013-04-23 10:00:29 AM  

Paris1127: Fark is not your personal erotica site,  Subby...


Yes, please share.
 
2013-04-23 10:02:41 AM  

nekom: DoctorCal: Why Didn't The FBI Do More To Investigate The Boston Bombing Suspect Two Years Ago?
I'd say that's begging the question. Maybe they did more to investigate, but, for some reason, don't really want to talk about it.

Or maybe they investigated them and didn't find any reason to be suspicious. Just because Russia says "You should probably watch these guys" doesn't mean that anything indicating a possible crime was ever found.


Pretty much that.  It's one thing when one says "Watch this person", it's another when you say "Watch this person because of 'X'".

Russia failed in that endeavor; so the FBI did proper checking, found out he/they were clean and when they came back to Russia with the findings and asking "Why did you tell us to watch them?", the Russians clammed up.
 
2013-04-23 10:04:31 AM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-23 10:06:15 AM  
Is Sen. Lindsey Graham the biggest attention whore in Washington D.C. or does he have serious competition?
 
2013-04-23 10:06:43 AM  
I was wondering the other day, is there maybe some leftover suspicion between our mutual intelligence / law enforcement agencies from the Cold War? Or possibly from Police Academy: Mission to Moscow.
 
2013-04-23 10:06:45 AM  

nekom: Of course, this WILL no doubt be the next chicken the GOP decides to have a go at, regardless of the facts of the situation.


If there were background checks then Tsarnaev's wouldn't have been able to get guns.
 
2013-04-23 10:09:38 AM  

Arkanaut: I was wondering the other day, is there maybe some leftover suspicion between our mutual intelligence / law enforcement agencies from the Cold War? Or possibly from Police Academy: Mission to Moscow.


Don't forget the ass pounding we gave them in 'Stripes'.
 
2013-04-23 10:09:58 AM  
Peple are gonna flog this horse to death, but really WTF did they expect the FBI to do?  They don't have a "pre-crime" unit  so all they could do is look at what the suspect had done and said up to that point,   and that was a gaint nothing burger.  And let's not forget that Russia is a nasty totalitarian state that more or less regards BEING Chechen as a crime, so I'm sure their intel stream generates a lot of "false positives" and the FBI doesn;t exactly regard them as totally reliable on this subject
 
2013-04-23 10:15:12 AM  
The Obama administration, among its many accomplishments, has created a more forgiving society.
 
2013-04-23 10:27:56 AM  

Cletus C.: The Obama administration, among its many accomplishments, has created a more forgiving society.


well it certainly beats the old mindset of drumming up for war just because someone sneezed at us
 
2013-04-23 10:31:06 AM  
Damn right the farked up. Time to get more money for homeland security
 
2013-04-23 10:33:48 AM  
OR, did FBI harassment after seeking asylum in the US radicalize them? Heh? Heh?
 
2013-04-23 10:34:14 AM  

somedude210: Cletus C.: The Obama administration, among its many accomplishments, has created a more forgiving society.

well it certainly beats the old mindset of drumming up for war just because someone sneezed at us


Bush. Sneeze.
 
2013-04-23 10:36:33 AM  

featurecreep: OR, did FBI harassment after seeking asylum in the US radicalize them? Heh? Heh?


I am sure this is fallout from Benghazi
 
2013-04-23 10:37:16 AM  

nekom: This is the new Benghazi, just wanted to call that now.


Yeah I think you're right.  Sounds a lot like Benghazi: unfortunate situation that in hindsight might have been preventable but probably wasn't.  Also, happened while the black guy was in office.
 
2013-04-23 10:39:12 AM  

Frozboz: nekom: This is the new Benghazi, just wanted to call that now.

Yeah I think you're right.  Sounds a lot like Benghazi: unfortunate situation that in hindsight might have been preventable but probably wasn't.  Also, happened while the black guy was in office.


Also, that anti-Muhammad film is still inciting spontaneous violence.
 
2013-04-23 10:48:47 AM  

Cletus C.: Frozboz: nekom: This is the new Benghazi, just wanted to call that now.

Yeah I think you're right.  Sounds a lot like Benghazi: unfortunate situation that in hindsight might have been preventable but probably wasn't.  Also, happened while the black guy was in office.

Also, that anti-Muhammad film is still inciting spontaneous violence.


And Obama didn't even call it a terrorist attack right away. WHAT DID HE KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT?
 
2013-04-23 10:49:44 AM  

nekom: Cletus C.: Frozboz: nekom: This is the new Benghazi, just wanted to call that now.

Yeah I think you're right.  Sounds a lot like Benghazi: unfortunate situation that in hindsight might have been preventable but probably wasn't.  Also, happened while the black guy was in office.

Also, that anti-Muhammad film is still inciting spontaneous violence.

And Obama didn't even call it a terrorist attack right away. WHAT DID HE KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT?


Wait for the talking points. All will become clear.
 
2013-04-23 10:56:01 AM  
It's ironic that someone clearly wanting us to be as direct and violent as possible when dealing with terrorism is being such a passive aggressive pussy arguing about it.
 
2013-04-23 11:01:55 AM  
I'd love to hear how the fbi justifies not having a squadron of pre-cogs working on domestic terrorism. Epic fail!

/the stupid, it burns.
 
2013-04-23 11:14:00 AM  
I have some questions for Putin about Benghazi.
 
2013-04-23 11:14:23 AM  

Muta: nekom: Of course, this WILL no doubt be the next chicken the GOP decides to have a go at, regardless of the facts of the situation.

If there were background checks then Tsarnaev's wouldn't have been able to get guns.


Exactly.  Because that would be breaking the law.  Why exactly would he have been put on a no-gun list anyway?  Because Russia said he's bad?
 
2013-04-23 11:15:29 AM  

Magorn: Peple are gonna flog this horse to death, but really WTF did they expect the FBI to do?  They don't have a "pre-crime" unit  so all they could do is look at what the suspect had done and said up to that point,   and that was a gaint nothing burger.  And let's not forget that Russia is a nasty totalitarian state that more or less regards BEING Chechen as a crime, so I'm sure their intel stream generates a lot of "false positives" and the FBI doesn;t exactly regard them as totally reliable on this subject


I do wonder whether Russia just handed the FBI a list of every Chechen who took a trip from the U.S. to Chechnya and said "please investigate."  And the FBI did follow up and do some investigation.  Of course, the argument will be that the FBI should have kept surveillance on him and his activities, so you know, we should live in a police state and fund massive government intrusion into private lives.
 
2013-04-23 11:27:04 AM  

Phil Moskowitz: [25.media.tumblr.com image 490x276]


Came for Archer, leaving satisfied

/but he promised me breakfast!!
 
2013-04-23 11:37:00 AM  
I wouldn't really hammer the FBI or Obama over this, but it's way closer to a security lapse than the "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" memo that many opponents of Bush loved to waive around post 9/11.
 
2013-04-23 11:41:20 AM  

nekom: DoctorCal: Why Didn't The FBI Do More To Investigate The Boston Bombing Suspect Two Years Ago?
I'd say that's begging the question. Maybe they did more to investigate, but, for some reason, don't really want to talk about it.

Or maybe they investigated them and didn't find any reason to be suspicious. Just because Russia says "You should probably watch these guys" doesn't mean that anything indicating a possible crime was ever found.


Well, you add in the fact that his girlfriend and her two friends were brutally murdered and you gotta start thinking they missed a big chance to get him.
 
2013-04-23 11:47:06 AM  

MugzyBrown: I wouldn't really hammer the FBI or Obama over this, but it's way closer to a security lapse than the "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" memo that many opponents of Bush loved to waive around post 9/11.


THIS.  Reading this thread I'm amazed that it's basically the same set of circumstances but with a VASTLY different attitude towards the sitting president.

Intelligence info warns an attack on US soil may be in the works.
Administration agencies look into it, find no grounds for immediate concern.
Attack happens, people die and are wounded.
Response by public varies according to personal politics.

a) Outrage.  "This administration was asleep at the switch.  You failed in your duty to protect the US.  Impeach!" - Bush
b) No big deal. "What more could have been done?  It's not like the administration is psychic or something." - Obama
 
2013-04-23 11:51:58 AM  
Wow the Bush apologists are alive and well.

What did Clinton do with intelligence on the Millennium bombing versus what Bush did with the memo "Al Qaeda determined to attack" ?
 
2013-04-23 11:58:36 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Wow the Bush apologists are alive and well.

What did Clinton do with intelligence on the Millennium bombing versus what Bush did with the memo "Al Qaeda determined to attack" ?


I'm sorry, what does this have to do with the FBI clearing the Boston bombers?

Which is more valuable intelligence:

1) The name of the actual bomber 2 years before an attack

2) A memo saying somebody who has already orchestrated attacks in the US wants to do it again 9 months before an attack


Nobody knows what the Russians told the FBI, so I have no idea if they should have done more or not.  I am just pointing out the hypocrisy involved, since the info on the Boston Bombings was way more 'actionable' than the memo people ripped Bush about.
 
2013-04-23 11:59:04 AM  

Office Ninja: MugzyBrown: I wouldn't really hammer the FBI or Obama over this, but it's way closer to a security lapse than the "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" memo that many opponents of Bush loved to waive around post 9/11.

THIS.  Reading this thread I'm amazed that it's basically the same set of circumstances but with a VASTLY different attitude towards the sitting president.

Intelligence info warns an attack on US soil may be in the works.
Administration agencies look into it, find no grounds for immediate concern.
Attack happens, people die and are wounded.
Response by public varies according to personal politics.

a) Outrage.  "This administration was asleep at the switch.  You failed in your duty to protect the US.  Impeach!" - Bush
b) No big deal. "What more could have been done?  It's not like the administration is psychic or something." - Obama


Um, except for the bolded part. The Bush administration basically dismantled any of Clinton's anti-terrorism apparatii when it came in, and warnings were simply ignored. It didn't consider terrorism an issue at all until 9/11. They didn't look into shiat, and ignored warnings from the previous administration that Al Qaida was a problem.
 
2013-04-23 12:06:32 PM  

Bloody William: Office Ninja: MugzyBrown: I wouldn't really hammer the FBI or Obama over this, but it's way closer to a security lapse than the "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" memo that many opponents of Bush loved to waive around post 9/11.

THIS.  Reading this thread I'm amazed that it's basically the same set of circumstances but with a VASTLY different attitude towards the sitting president.

Intelligence info warns an attack on US soil may be in the works.
Administration agencies look into it, find no grounds for immediate concern.
Attack happens, people die and are wounded.
Response by public varies according to personal politics.

a) Outrage.  "This administration was asleep at the switch.  You failed in your duty to protect the US.  Impeach!" - Bush
b) No big deal. "What more could have been done?  It's not like the administration is psychic or something." - Obama

Um, except for the bolded part. The Bush administration basically dismantled any of Clinton's anti-terrorism apparatii when it came in, and warnings were simply ignored. It didn't consider terrorism an issue at all until 9/11. They didn't look into shiat, and ignored warnings from the previous administration that Al Qaida was a problem.


But they were spot on about Iraq being behind the Anthrax letters.
 
2013-04-23 12:08:15 PM  

Bloody William: Um, except for the bolded part. The Bush administration basically dismantled any of Clinton's anti-terrorism apparatii when it came in, and warnings were simply ignored. It didn't consider terrorism an issue at all until 9/11. They didn't look into shiat, and ignored warnings from the previous administration that Al Qaida was a problem.


Except one had the actual person's name attached to it and the other was just a warning that an attack may come one day.

Bush could have rec'd a memo that said Al Qaeda planned to hijack 4 planes in the fall of 2001 and wouldn't have been able to stop 9/11.

Obama could have ordered this guy be tailed and the bombing would have never happened.

I don't think either is realistic, but if you're going to rip Bush for failing to stop 9/11, you should be all over the current administration.
 
2013-04-23 12:11:09 PM  

MugzyBrown: Except one had the actual person's name attached to it and the other was just a warning that an attack may come one day.


Actual person's name:

www.gwu.edu

Actual person:

www.gwu.edu
 
2013-04-23 12:14:54 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Wow the Bush apologists are alive and well.

What did Clinton do with intelligence on the Millennium bombing versus what Bush did with the memo "Al Qaeda determined to attack" ?


There have been intelligence failures dating back decades. Failure does not seem to be punished in that sector.
 
2013-04-23 12:21:09 PM  

Bloody William: Actual person's name:


I'm sorry when was he in the US being interviewed? And which plane did he hijack on 9/11?

Bin Laden could have been killed the day Bush read that memo and 9/11 still would have happened.
 
2013-04-23 12:24:05 PM  
To be honest I am surprised the FBI didn't continue to keep tabs on this guy. I can't imagine the the Russians are giving the FBI a huge list of potential suspects or possible problems. The FBI has a huge field office in Boston and the special agents who would be in charge of keeping tabs on foreign nationals do this all day every day.

At the very least you would think that the triple homicide of his "friend" in Boston might have had someone looking at this guy and possibly making a call to the FBI.

I can assure you that there was an OH SHYTE moment when the FBI realized who they were looking for.
 
2013-04-23 12:36:15 PM  

MugzyBrown: Bloody William: Actual person's name:

I'm sorry when was he in the US being interviewed? And which plane did he hijack on 9/11?

Bin Laden could have been killed the day Bush read that memo and 9/11 still would have happened.


My point is that Bush dismantled antiterrorism initiatives and didn't give any warnings a second look until 9/11. There are a lot of "could haves," but we know Bush didn't give a shiat about terror until we were attacked and that, while the Boston bombing wasn't stopped, there at least was a system in place to go after threats. The Bush administration didn't make any effort. Like I said before, I wan't to know what the signal-to-noise was with these warnings and any sort of "red flags" regarding Chechnyans that would have made this stand out.
 
2013-04-23 12:44:40 PM  
Wow, that "determined to attack" memo is even more useless than I would have guessed.
 
2013-04-23 12:44:53 PM  

Bloody William: any sort of "red flags" regarding Chechnyans


Considering allied forces have been fighting Chechnyans in Afghanistan and Iraq for years, I'd think there are some red flags involving them.
 
2013-04-23 01:24:58 PM  
I "bungled a Russian tip" once... once. I will never make that mistake again.
 
2013-04-23 01:25:30 PM  

MugzyBrown: Bloody William: any sort of "red flags" regarding Chechnyans

Considering allied forces have been fighting Chechnyans in Afghanistan and Iraq for years, I'd think there are some red flags involving them.


Have we been fighting Chechnyns?  I know they're not 100% white like Americans, but are they brown enough for us to actually declare war on them?
 
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