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(NBC News)   Research suggests marijuana pill may help relieve pain better than the traditional smoking method, and by "relieve pain better", they really mean "make pharmaceutical companies richer"   (vitals.nbcnews.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Department of Psychiatry, smoking marijuana, lung function, Yale School of Medicine  
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3638 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2013 at 10:11 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



217 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-04-23 08:20:43 AM  
Pretty much.
 
2013-04-23 08:22:38 AM  
Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.
 
2013-04-23 08:26:50 AM  
In addition, the study involved regular marijuana users (who smoked the drug daily)

That's an odd sample to use.
 
2013-04-23 08:26:55 AM  
Subby is spot on. If they can turn a profit they'll soponsor every whorin' politician to vote that sh*t in.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-23 08:27:52 AM  

nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.


Yes, but I thought there was a THC pill already on the market.  Besides, for some medical conditions the hazard of smoking is kind of irrelevant.
 
2013-04-23 08:30:38 AM  

vpb:
Yes, but I thought there was a THC pill already on the market.  Besides, for some medical conditions the hazard of smoking is kind of irrelevant.


Marinol, I believe. And I agree, in the case of a terminally ill patient, smoke away. But for an otherwise healthy person suffering from glaucoma, non-terminal cancer who need the appetite boost, etc. it's a bit safer. I support both medical and responsible recreational use among adults, but I can't say that smoking any substance is "safe".
 
2013-04-23 08:55:45 AM  
If it exist, someone wants to have exclusive right to gouge you for it.
 
2013-04-23 09:27:54 AM  

Revek: If it exist, someone wants to have exclusive right to gouge you for it.


And they want legal protections from the government and they want the government to go after competitors, such as marijuana growers. And with any luck it'll be addictive and have tons of withdrawal side effects.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-23 09:39:27 AM  
That's the risk of pretending medical marijuana is about medical marijuana. Somebody might take you at your word and produce medical marijuana.
 
2013-04-23 09:47:17 AM  

ZAZ: That's the risk of pretending medical marijuana is about medical marijuana. Somebody might take you at your word and produce medical marijuana.


For some, it is. I have known people who used it medically who would have never used it otherwise, and I can honestly affirm that it was a great help to them. Yes, there are those who also use it as a pretext for recreational use. I happen to support both, so this doesn't bother me at all, except maybe that it can serve to undermine the legitimate medical use in the court of public opinion.
 
2013-04-23 10:14:31 AM  
The sound you hear is the gentle *phthunk* of the other shoe dropping in the "war on drugs".
 
2013-04-23 10:16:02 AM  

nekom: . And I agree, in the case of a terminally ill patient, smoke away. But for an otherwise healthy person suffering from glaucoma, non-terminal cancer who need the appetite boost, etc. it's a bit safer. I support both medical and responsible recreational use among adults, but I can't say that smoking any substance is "safe".


Counter: If they are hvaing trouble keeping food down, how the fark is a pill going to help? They're going to throw that up too!
 
2013-04-23 10:17:36 AM  

ZAZ: That's the risk of pretending medical marijuana is about medical marijuana. Somebody might take you at your word and produce medical marijuana.


Whatever it takes to get asshole busybodies to mind their own business, and shut the f**k up.
 
2013-04-23 10:18:13 AM  
That 2 dozen chocolate chip pot cookies in my kitchen.. MUCH better than taking a pill.

Edibles are the way to go.
 
2013-04-23 10:18:19 AM  

nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.


No, this isn't true. Marijuana smoke does not cause cancer, heart disease or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Not a single case of any of these smoking related-disease has ever been linked to marijuana use. A few studies have found some minor airway changes in the lungs after years of heavy pot smoking, but these changes are fully reversible. Quite to the contrary, marijuana is a mild bronchodilator, which can help asthmatics breath easier without the cardiovascular side effects.
 
2013-04-23 10:18:35 AM  

nekom: vpb:
Yes, but I thought there was a THC pill already on the market.  Besides, for some medical conditions the hazard of smoking is kind of irrelevant.

Marinol, I believe. And I agree, in the case of a terminally ill patient, smoke away. But for an otherwise healthy person suffering from glaucoma, non-terminal cancer who need the appetite boost, etc. it's a bit safer. I support both medical and responsible recreational use among adults, but I can't say that smoking any substance is "safe".


Anecdotally, Marino isn't as good at stimulating hunger and relieving pain as good ol' Sour Diesel. IIRC, it isn't prescribed for pain relief, or it wasn't when I had a work friend going through chemo. Then again, she liked to smoke up a bit before she got sick, so who knows? All I know is, marijuana shouldbe legal. There's no good, compelling rreason it shouldn't be.
 
2013-04-23 10:18:40 AM  

nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.


Many medicinal users opt to ingest, rather than inhale.  This according to a provider in Montana I spoke with, YMMV.  In fact, it was a majority of his customers that preferred it in an digestible form.  He was, of course, talking about people that were seriously ill, and not people taking it for "anxiety".

So, if there are enantiomers of the active compounds present in the natural plant, or unidentified compounds that are active or act additively/synergistically, ingestion of preparations of real plants is still better than a pill.

/Nice try, big pharma
//Why don't you get working on treatments for MRSA?
 
2013-04-23 10:20:04 AM  
No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".
 
2013-04-23 10:20:46 AM  

ZAZ: That's the risk of pretending medical marijuana is about medical marijuana. Somebody might take you at your word and produce medical marijuana.


Right, because big Pharma is just going to take "the word" of the medical marijuana community.  There was no science involved, and no testing to see if there really are medical benefits.  They just decided to perpetuate the ruse.
 
2013-04-23 10:20:54 AM  

JackieRabbit: nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.

No, this isn't true. Marijuana smoke does not cause cancer, heart disease or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Not a single case of any of these smoking related-disease has ever been linked to marijuana use. A few studies have found some minor airway changes in the lungs after years of heavy pot smoking, but these changes are fully reversible. Quite to the contrary, marijuana is a mild bronchodilator, which can help asthmatics breath easier without the cardiovascular side effects.


Smoking it used to make my heart pound at an alarming rate, and make my ears ring.  I was young so I ignored it, naturally.  I wouldn't touch it now, if it were legal.

I think the stuff should be legal, but any drug has its dangers.

/flame away
 
2013-04-23 10:22:12 AM  
You don't have to smoke it to feel the effects....

I present to you

www.ruths-brownies.com
Now that's a safe alternative.
 
2013-04-23 10:22:48 AM  
sunday Sunday SUNDAY

COME SEE SuperMegaPharmCo go mano a mano against UltraBoffoAgriCo

See your Philip Morris, Pfizer, Merck or lobbyist to donate buy tickets to this first ever marijuana profit bowl steel cage death match held directly on the floor of the US Senate.
 
2013-04-23 10:23:48 AM  

ZAZ: That's the risk of pretending medical marijuana is about medical marijuana. Somebody might take you at your word and produce medical marijuana.


Stop the madness :)

"However, the issue of whether to allow patients to use potentially addictive drugs (ones they find pleasurable) is a question for public policy"  - I guess they might as well use those non-addictive painmeds like they oxys and whatnot.  Nope, not potentially addictive.

/why don't they mention vaporizers?
//legalize
 
2013-04-23 10:24:32 AM  
Another great alternative

hempnewstv.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-23 10:24:55 AM  
It also makes Pink Floyd sound good
 
2013-04-23 10:25:41 AM  

born_yesterday: nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.

Many medicinal users opt to ingest, rather than inhale.  This according to a provider in Montana I spoke with, YMMV.  In fact, it was a majority of his customers that preferred it in an digestible form.  He was, of course, talking about people that were seriously ill, and not people taking it for "anxiety".

So, if there are enantiomers of the active compounds present in the natural plant, or unidentified compounds that are active or act additively/synergistically, ingestion of preparations of real plants is still better than a pill.

/Nice try, big pharma
//Why don't you get working on treatments for MRSA?


Because you can't patent Manuka honey?
 
2013-04-23 10:26:25 AM  

fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".


You say that like it's a bad thing.  Thanks for looking out for my best interests.
 
2013-04-23 10:27:43 AM  
The stench is what gets to me. It hurts my eyes and makes me cough, and that's just second-hand. I won't be trying it first-hand when it has that effect on me from a distance.
There are probably people like me out there, but with medical conditions that benefit from marijuana. This can only be good for them.
 
2013-04-23 10:28:05 AM  
Of course, we all had to know this was coming. Patent it and make it prescription pill only.

Get a vaporizer... I recommend the PAX.
 
2013-04-23 10:28:51 AM  

born_yesterday: nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.

Many medicinal users opt to ingest, rather than inhale.  This according to a provider in Montana I spoke with, YMMV.  In fact, it was a majority of his customers that preferred it in an digestible form.  He was, of course, talking about people that were seriously ill, and not people taking it for "anxiety".

So, if there are enantiomers of the active compounds present in the natural plant, or unidentified compounds that are active or act additively/synergistically, ingestion of preparations of real plants is still better than a pill.

/Nice try, big pharma
//Why don't you get working on treatments for MRSA?


That's very true, but on the flip side if one or more cannabinoids in particular can be found to treat certain conditions, they could be isolated and cater to various things. For example, the chemicals that help glaucoma may not be the same ones that aid in appetite stimulant. There may even be some chemicals that thwart the ability of the plant to treat various conditions, and the patient may well be better off without them.
 
2013-04-23 10:28:59 AM  

JackieRabbit: Quite to the contrary, marijuana is a mild bronchodilator, which can help asthmatics breath easier without the cardiovascular side effects.


I totally forgot about this talking point.  I am an asthmatic and can vouch for this.

/still prefer my vape
 
2013-04-23 10:29:02 AM  

fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".


Now here is the real point, stoners just want to get high.

// let all druggies die when we catch them give them one last high
 
2013-04-23 10:29:47 AM  
Well, good. Now we can just make recreational use illegal and we can give this to those looking for a medical alternative.

//Did anyone think this wouldn't eventually happen?
 
2013-04-23 10:30:06 AM  
As soon as my state legalizes it, I'll be growin' my own.

/on the ballot for this Nov.
//Big Pharma can kiss my A$$
 
2013-04-23 10:30:47 AM  
While profit is certainly a concern and incentive it does make sense that direct ingestion would be a better delivery method than inhalation although it may be slightly slower acting.

The good news for pot lovers is that the acceptance of marijuana as medicine rather than "Demon weed" will help it's legalization
 
2013-04-23 10:31:15 AM  

fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".


A: Can't it be both?
B: So what if they want to get high? Alcohol and tobacco are both, at BEST, just as dangerous as marijuana, and they're legal.
 
2013-04-23 10:31:43 AM  

nekom: vpb:
Yes, but I thought there was a THC pill already on the market.  Besides, for some medical conditions the hazard of smoking is kind of irrelevant.

Marinol, I believe. And I agree, in the case of a terminally ill patient, smoke away. But for an otherwise healthy person suffering from glaucoma, non-terminal cancer who need the appetite boost, etc. it's a bit safer. I support both medical and responsible recreational use among adults, but I can't say that smoking any substance is "safe".


Its my understanding that Marinol is only one compound (THC) extracted from the plant, the effects of ingesting/smoking actual marijuana are due to a combination of dozens of compounds, chief among them THC, but also numerous other canniboids. Not to mention if youre nauseous and vomiting from chemo, i dont know how you can be expected to keep a pill down. Yeah smoking anything is bad, but using a vaporizer reduces the nasty stuff by like 85%.

From Wiki:
While there has never been a documented human fatality from overdosing on tetrahydrocannabinol or cannabis in its natural form,[87] Marinol can lead to death.[88]

Female cannabis plants contain more than 60 cannabinoids, including cannabidiol (CBD), thought to be the major anticonvulsant that helps multiple sclerosis patients;[89] and cannabichromene (CBC), an anti-inflammatory which may contribute to the pain-killing effect of cannabis.[90]

It takes over one hour for Marinol to reach full systemic effect,[91] compared to seconds or minutes for smoked or vaporized cannabis.[92] Some patients accustomed to inhaling just enough cannabis smoke to manage symptoms have complained of too-intense intoxication from Marinol's predetermined dosages. Many patients have said that Marinol produces a more acute psychedelic effect than cannabis, and it has been speculated that this disparity can be explained by the moderating effect of the many non-THC cannabinoids present in cannabis. For that reason, alternative THC-containing medications based on botanical extracts of the cannabis plant such as nabiximols are being developed. Mark Kleiman, director of the Drug Policy Analysis Program at UCLA's School of Public Affairs said of Marinol, "It wasn't any fun and made the user feel bad, so it could be approved without any fear that it would penetrate the recreational market, and then used as a club with which to beat back the advocates of whole cannabis as a medicine."[93]. United States federal law currently registers dronabinol as a Schedule III controlled substance, but all other cannabinoids remain Schedule I, excepting synthetics like nabilone.[94]


Its ridiculous that the anti pot folks are always like "Oooo, theres no medical benefits, medical marijuana is just a foot in the door for people who want to get high". Well A, so what, and 2, if theres no medicinal uses, why do they synthesize medicine from it?

/ban willow bark!
 
2013-04-23 10:32:11 AM  
What is it with pot smokers who talk up all of the medicinal benefits of the drug, then SMOKE it! Yeah, because THAT's an efficient delivery method!

Do these same people still smoke opium for pain killers, or get a prescription for Oxy?

And for those who claim no health risks due to the smoke, can you explain to me how this magical smoke is not harmful--ya know--unlike ANY other smoke inhaled into the lungs on a regular basis...
 
2013-04-23 10:32:14 AM  

Psycoholic_Slag: fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".

You say that like it's a bad thing.  Thanks for looking out for my best interests.


I don't mean to.  I favor full legalization for recreational use.  But I have come to despise the artifice.  Every time someone starts going on and on about the amazing medical powers (and total lack of negative effects) of Marijuana, they seem to be stoners.  I just want some more honesty in the conversation.
 
2013-04-23 10:32:41 AM  
fireclown


No, subby. This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".

No it is pretty much about profit. If they gave two shiats, they would make medicine that works better the reduces side effects like addiction instead of just being happy with something profitable.

Doctors get kickbacks for testing medicine on patients, Big Pharm aren't doctors and don't care about your health, they just want you using their pill.
 
2013-04-23 10:33:07 AM  

nekom: the chemicals that help glaucoma may not be the same ones that aid in appetite stimulant. There may even be some chemicals that thwart the ability of the plant to treat various conditions, and the patient may well be better off without them.


With a vape, you can adjust the temps to achieve this.  There is some published research about what temperatures do what. Higher temps help with nausea and sleep for example.

/vapes help you dial in on these
 
2013-04-23 10:33:13 AM  

JackieRabbit: nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.

No, this isn't true. Marijuana smoke does not cause cancer, heart disease or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Not a single case of any of these smoking related-disease has ever been linked to marijuana use. A few studies have found some minor airway changes in the lungs after years of heavy pot smoking, but these changes are fully reversible. Quite to the contrary, marijuana is a mild bronchodilator, which can help asthmatics breath easier without the cardiovascular side effects.


Even if JackieRabbit wasn't correct, you could just use a vaporizer to eliminate any concerns with smoking.
They are so mainstream now that Gizmodo and other gadget blogs regularly review them.
 
2013-04-23 10:35:20 AM  

LordJiro: Alcohol and tobacco are both, at BEST, just as dangerous as marijuana, and they're legal.


As far as I know tobacco has NO medicinal properties.

/just a drug
 
2013-04-23 10:35:29 AM  

fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".


See, there are two sides the marijuana prohibition argument. One side must work as hard as they can to find and cling to any shreds of factual information they can find or re-position in such as way as to lend credence to their position because the other side's primary tactic is to stick fingers in their ears, call them hippies and chant "NANANANANANA CAN'T HEAR YOU". The medical angle was very much just a foothold that was required to even begin a debate on the substance. Now that there is some traction the opposing side is slowly being pushed into a position where simply refusing to acknowledge the arugment isn't going to work anymore.
 
2013-04-23 10:36:07 AM  

Kibbler: JackieRabbit: nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.

No, this isn't true. Marijuana smoke does not cause cancer, heart disease or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Not a single case of any of these smoking related-disease has ever been linked to marijuana use. A few studies have found some minor airway changes in the lungs after years of heavy pot smoking, but these changes are fully reversible. Quite to the contrary, marijuana is a mild bronchodilator, which can help asthmatics breath easier without the cardiovascular side effects.

Smoking it used to make my heart pound at an alarming rate, and make my ears ring.  I was young so I ignored it, naturally.  I wouldn't touch it now, if it were legal.

I think the stuff should be legal, but any drug has its dangers.

/flame away


No need for flaming. MJ can increase the heart rate. This is because THC is a mild vasodilator. The blood vessels dilate, blood pressure falls a bit and the heart rate goes up to compensate. The side effect is more pronounced in some people and after smoking potent strains of the plant.
 
2013-04-23 10:36:59 AM  
so, can we move it off of schedule I now?
 
2013-04-23 10:37:02 AM  
Way to stick it to "The Man", subby.

/ you'll still be able to find something to roll
 
2013-04-23 10:37:39 AM  
i512.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-23 10:37:46 AM  
If the proponents of medical marijuana (one of which I happen to be) are serious about using it for pain management, they will welcome this study, as smoking anything presents a risk to the lungs and other respiratory organs that tablets will avoid.

However, if governments and drug companies are serious about pain relief and not just controlling marijuana, they will acknowledge that some users, suffering from nausea, for example, will find a pill unacceptable and still need to smoke it.

We'll know the true motives of both sides by how this debate shapes up as research progresses.
 
2013-04-23 10:37:50 AM  

argylez: nekom: the chemicals that help glaucoma may not be the same ones that aid in appetite stimulant. There may even be some chemicals that thwart the ability of the plant to treat various conditions, and the patient may well be better off without them.

With a vape, you can adjust the temps to achieve this.  There is some published research about what temperatures do what. Higher temps help with nausea and sleep for example.

/vapes help you dial in on these


That's interesting. I am aware of vaporizers but it never occurred to me that the temperature can be tuned in. But even still, you aren't getting absolutely pure compounds, you're getting whatever mix gets taken in at a specific heat.

Again, I have nothing against even recreational use, so I'm certainly not knocking anyone who smokes or eats it medically or for shiats and giggles, just saying that it MIGHT be better to have exact doses of specific compounds to aid specific medical conditions.
 
2013-04-23 10:37:52 AM  
The ONLY reason I can see that a pill is better than brownies / smoking / vaporizers is that there would be some accountability as to dosage consistency.

However, the nature of the problems that pot is used to combat that makes specific timed doses kinda moot..  ie: I smoke until I feel hungry / the pain lessens / etc..

Also:
"

bdub77: Because you can't patent Manuka honey?


If Monsanto can patent corn, Big Pharma can patent "Manuka Honey"... 


/Not a smoker since high school
//Would pick it back up if it was only thing that worked for me
 
2013-04-23 10:38:44 AM  

argylez: JackieRabbit: Quite to the contrary, marijuana is a mild bronchodilator, which can help asthmatics breath easier without the cardiovascular side effects.

I totally forgot about this talking point.  I am an asthmatic and can vouch for this.

/still prefer my vape


I can vouch for this as well. It is the only thing that helped when I had migraines.
It used to be prescribed for asthma.
 
Bf+
2013-04-23 10:39:18 AM  
Ah, another legal drug with all the medicinal benefits of cannabis which is illegal because it has no medicinal benefits whatsoever.
 
2013-04-23 10:40:58 AM  

Mr. Right: If the proponents of medical marijuana (one of which I happen to be) are serious about using it for pain management, they will welcome this study, as smoking anything presents a risk to the lungs and other respiratory organs that tablets will avoid.

However, if governments and drug companies are serious about pain relief and not just controlling marijuana, they will acknowledge that some users, suffering from nausea, for example, will find a pill unacceptable and still need to smoke it.

We'll know the true motives of both sides by how this debate shapes up as research progresses.


Suggesting we don't already know the true motive of both sides is, at this point in the debate, high comedy.
 
2013-04-23 10:41:52 AM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".

Now here is the real point, stoners just want to get high.

// let all druggies die when we catch them give them one last high


Yeah, those farkin' stoners. How dare they want to experience mild euphoria? Let's kill them all, then ban alcohol and kill all the drinkers, too.

/ 2/10
 
2013-04-23 10:42:09 AM  

winkman: What is it with pot smokers who talk up all of the medicinal benefits of the drug, then SMOKE it! Yeah, because THAT's an efficient delivery method!

Do these same people still smoke opium for pain killers, or get a prescription for Oxy?

And for those who claim no health risks due to the smoke, can you explain to me how this magical smoke is not harmful--ya know--unlike ANY other smoke inhaled into the lungs on a regular basis...


You can eat it you know.
You can vaporize it.
You can use it in tincture form.
You can drink it.
You can use it in salve form.
You can use it in oil form.

I don't want to take pills for my condition.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.
 
2013-04-23 10:42:11 AM  

fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".


Any time I see "Big Pharma" mentioned in a marijuana link, I immediately think this.
 
2013-04-23 10:42:14 AM  

nekom: That's very true, but on the flip side if one or more cannabinoids in particular can be found to treat certain conditions, they could be isolated and cater to various things. For example, the chemicals that help glaucoma may not be the same ones that aid in appetite stimulant.


I fully support the characterization of this and any other promising natural compounds.

I am more concerned with the comments I saw that suggest that many people are unfamiliar with exactly how common alternative forms of ingestion are, and how the whole question of the potential harmful effects by smoking can be avoided entirely for many patients.

It is my fear that people will be encouraged to believe that any associated risks (real or imagined) of smoking pot, will be used to keep people ignorant of the other possibilities, and act to suppress research into the specific active compounds.  Or that pharma will use this to suppress natural preparations while they work on a "safe" one.   I think these alternative methods of ingestion should continue to be available, regardless of whether pharma is sincere in pursuing this.  If they come up with anything, it might be a good time for a double-blind experiment for comparison.
 
2013-04-23 10:42:24 AM  

fireclown: Psycoholic_Slag: fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".

You say that like it's a bad thing.  Thanks for looking out for my best interests.

I don't mean to.  I favor full legalization for recreational use.  But I have come to despise the artifice.  Every time someone starts going on and on about the amazing medical powers (and total lack of negative effects) of Marijuana, they seem to be stoners.  I just want some more honesty in the conversation.


I hear you.  I'm just as tired of hearing the opposite argument that weed is so dangerous that only a pharmaceutical company should be allowed to exploit and profit from it.
 
2013-04-23 10:42:43 AM  
Brilliant idea:  Outlaw coffee and tea!  For health and morality reasons!

Then allow the pharmaceutical companies to make pills that are the rendered down effective agents!

Millions I tells ya!
 
2013-04-23 10:42:51 AM  
Smoking is fundamentally unhealthy and oral consumption is better for you.

Duh.

There's a few problems, though: Some people using medical marijuana can't hold down pills. They may prefer the immediate relief of smoking or vaporization, the easier self-titration, or even the shorter-lasting effects.

Medical marijuana patients may find that a given strain or combination of strains gives them an improved quality of life that can't be improved upon by a specific Big Pharma ingestable, even a crude drug 1:1 equivalent of the pot pills available in wide variety from their local dispensary.

...And let me get all hippy-dippy for a moment. I think everyone agrees that, at long last, the tide is turning for pot. As marijuana becomes more accepted and legal for both medicinal and recreational purposes, there will likely be corporations spending big lobbying money to control how Americans consume, procure, grow, and breed cannabis, with the goal of reducing the number of options that aren't theirs. Anybody concerned with the degree of power that the Real Money wields should probably be vigilant about Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, and Big Ag hi-jacking marijuana liberalization.
 
2013-04-23 10:43:53 AM  

nekom: That's interesting. I am aware of vaporizers but it never occurred to me that the temperature can be tuned in. But even still, you aren't getting absolutely pure compounds, you're getting whatever mix gets taken in at a specific heat.

Again, I have nothing against even recreational use, so I'm certainly not knocking anyone who smokes or eats it medically or for shiats and giggles, just saying that it MIGHT be better to have exact doses of specific compounds to aid specific medical conditions.


Yea, I guess if you need to be REALLY exact it might be more specific.  I just know if I'm feeling like I'm gonna puke, it does the trick if I crank up the vape...lol.
 
2013-04-23 10:43:59 AM  

argylez: LordJiro: Alcohol and tobacco are both, at BEST, just as dangerous as marijuana, and they're legal.

As far as I know tobacco has NO medicinal properties.

/just a drug


Tobacco can help with IBS symptoms...
 
2013-04-23 10:44:47 AM  

santadog: That 2 dozen chocolate chip pot cookies in my kitchen.. MUCH better than taking a pill.

Edibles are the way to go.


This. If you don't want to smoke a bowl, then get the munchies from your munchies.
The "side effects" that they are trying to get rid of are mellowness, smiling, laughter, and a sense of relaxed well-being.

Why would you want to avoid those?
 
2013-04-23 10:44:53 AM  

Towermonkey: nekom: vpb:
Yes, but I thought there was a THC pill already on the market.  Besides, for some medical conditions the hazard of smoking is kind of irrelevant.

Marinol, I believe. And I agree, in the case of a terminally ill patient, smoke away. But for an otherwise healthy person suffering from glaucoma, non-terminal cancer who need the appetite boost, etc. it's a bit safer. I support both medical and responsible recreational use among adults, but I can't say that smoking any substance is "safe".

Anecdotally, Marino isn't as good at stimulating hunger and relieving pain as good ol' Sour Diesel. IIRC, it isn't prescribed for pain relief, or it wasn't when I had a work friend going through chemo. Then again, she liked to smoke up a bit before she got sick, so who knows? All I know is, marijuana shouldbe legal. There's no good, compelling rreason it shouldn't be.


I believe it's prescribed solely to increase appetite, I haven't heard of it being prescribed for pain control. I don't know how well it works for appetite stimulation, but it's used in a lot of nursing homes for that purpose.
 
2013-04-23 10:44:55 AM  

Psylence: argylez: LordJiro: Alcohol and tobacco are both, at BEST, just as dangerous as marijuana, and they're legal.

As far as I know tobacco has NO medicinal properties.

/just a drug

Tobacco can help with IBS symptoms...



It also helps topically when applied to hornet and wasp stings, etc...
 
2013-04-23 10:45:33 AM  
fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".

I've long admired your ability to miss the point entirely while sitting back with a smug look on your face like that "Study it out" grandma with her blue-blocker sunglasses.

"Big Pharma" has been fighting against marijuana for literally decades, claiming that it has zero medicinal value. But then they throw that argument out the window once they sense an opportunity to isolate and PATENT a marijuana derivative that they can sell for a government-protected profit. All this nattering about marijuana being a "gateway drug" gets trotted out by pharmaceutical companies, distilleries and RJ Reynolds, all of whom stand to lose hundreds of millions of dollars when (not "if") recreational marijuana becomes legal, and they're assisted in this endeavor by weak-minded people who feel a need to be protected from the monsters that live under their beds.
 
2013-04-23 10:45:41 AM  
Any pharmaceutics concern making a penny from something the grows wild needs a kick in the balls.
 
2013-04-23 10:46:28 AM  

BafflerMeal: Psylence: argylez: LordJiro: Alcohol and tobacco are both, at BEST, just as dangerous as marijuana, and they're legal.

As far as I know tobacco has NO medicinal properties.

/just a drug

Tobacco can help with IBS symptoms...


It also helps topically when applied to hornet and wasp stings, etc...


I've heard that, not sure if that's just an old wive's tale or if it actually has any merit. I have also heard that nicotine can be important in the treatment of schizophrania, though naturally non-smoking alternative sources are recommended.
 
2013-04-23 10:47:14 AM  

vudukungfu: Any pharmaceutics concern making a penny from something the grows wild needs a kick in the balls.


Better kill the makers of Tylenol, then, bro. And every over the counter pill or vitamin ever made.
 
2013-04-23 10:48:12 AM  

nekom: BafflerMeal: Psylence: argylez: LordJiro: Alcohol and tobacco are both, at BEST, just as dangerous as marijuana, and they're legal.

As far as I know tobacco has NO medicinal properties.

/just a drug

Tobacco can help with IBS symptoms...


It also helps topically when applied to hornet and wasp stings, etc...

I've heard that, not sure if that's just an old wive's tale or if it actually has any merit. I have also heard that nicotine can be important in the treatment of schizophrania, though naturally non-smoking alternative sources are recommended.



Absolutely works.  Experienced it firsthand several times.  Needs to be partially digested though.  Big wad of chew with saliva.  Then compress on sting area.
 
2013-04-23 10:48:25 AM  

Psylence: argylez: LordJiro: Alcohol and tobacco are both, at BEST, just as dangerous as marijuana, and they're legal.

As far as I know tobacco has NO medicinal properties.

/just a drug

Tobacco can help with IBS symptoms...


Tobacco has helped prevent me from getting all stabby on some of my co-workers.  Tell them that's not a health benefit.
 
2013-04-23 10:48:41 AM  
Vaporize= No smoke, no stupid brownies.
It's that easy.
 
2013-04-23 10:48:42 AM  

A Shambling Mound: Mr. Right: If the proponents of medical marijuana (one of which I happen to be) are serious about using it for pain management, they will welcome this study, as smoking anything presents a risk to the lungs and other respiratory organs that tablets will avoid.

However, if governments and drug companies are serious about pain relief and not just controlling marijuana, they will acknowledge that some users, suffering from nausea, for example, will find a pill unacceptable and still need to smoke it.

We'll know the true motives of both sides by how this debate shapes up as research progresses.

Suggesting we don't already know the true motive of both sides is, at this point in the debate, high comedy.



I don't understand why anyone thinks it matters to drug companies which way marijuana is legalized, pill or smoking (or both).  It's not like they'll stay out of the market if it's only legal to smoke it but if it's a pill they're totally in.  Either they'll be in or they won't.  Sometimes you gotta realize that tinfoil hat isn't really helping.
 
2013-04-23 10:48:48 AM  

argylez: LordJiro: Alcohol and tobacco are both, at BEST, just as dangerous as marijuana, and they're legal.

As far as I know tobacco has NO medicinal properties.

/just a drug


Nicotine can normalize EEG in the short term for patients with ADHD, schizophrenia and even alzheimers, but no one would ever prescribe tobacco for mental health patients. Also ironically compounds in FRESH tobacco have been found to have tumor inhibiting properties, it seems the process of curing tobacco is where a lot of the nasty stuff comes from not to mention all the additives.

/not to mention the appetite suppression effect
 
2013-04-23 10:49:57 AM  

BafflerMeal: Brilliant idea:  Outlaw coffee and tea!  For health and morality reasons!

Then allow the pharmaceutical companies to make pills that are the rendered down effective agents!

Millions I tells ya!


Hah, you think there aren't companies that already do this.  You're silly.
 
2013-04-23 10:50:16 AM  

santadog: I don't want to take pills for my condition.



When my dogs don't want to take their pills, I hide them in their cookie treats.

/if only there was a way to hide pot like that.
 
2013-04-23 10:50:17 AM  

vudukungfu: Any pharmaceutics concern making a penny from something the grows wild needs a kick in the balls.


Just because it grows in the wild doesn't mean it's ready for consumption straight from the wild. Not that I'm a fan of Big Pharma, just pointing out the error in that
 
2013-04-23 10:51:01 AM  

lennavan: BafflerMeal: Brilliant idea:  Outlaw coffee and tea!  For health and morality reasons!

Then allow the pharmaceutical companies to make pills that are the rendered down effective agents!

Millions I tells ya!

Hah, you think there aren't companies that already do this.  You're silly.



But you missed step 1 dammit!
 
2013-04-23 10:51:01 AM  

lennavan: BafflerMeal: Brilliant idea:  Outlaw coffee and tea!  For health and morality reasons!

Then allow the pharmaceutical companies to make pills that are the rendered down effective agents!

Millions I tells ya!

Hah, you think there aren't companies that already do this.  You're silly.


Isn't this what all pills ever are?
 
2013-04-23 10:52:23 AM  

QueenMamaBee: vudukungfu: Any pharmaceutics concern making a penny from something the grows wild needs a kick in the balls.

Just because it grows in the wild doesn't mean it's ready for consumption straight from the wild. Not that I'm a fan of Big Pharma, just pointing out the error in that


No, we're in the age where natural and uncontrolled = good. Anything manufactured by people who've tested effects of things over and over = bad.
 
2013-04-23 10:55:21 AM  

AngryPanda: lennavan: BafflerMeal: Brilliant idea:  Outlaw coffee and tea!  For health and morality reasons!

Then allow the pharmaceutical companies to make pills that are the rendered down effective agents!

Millions I tells ya!

Hah, you think there aren't companies that already do this.  You're silly.

Isn't this what all pills ever are?



Technically no.  There are drugs on the market today that are chemicals that have never existed in nature in any form.  There are a lot of hail marys that go into phase one testing.
 
2013-04-23 10:57:08 AM  

vudukungfu: Any pharmaceutics concern making a penny from something the grows wild needs a kick in the balls.


Never go to a grocery store.  The sheer number of things that grow in the wild that are sold for profit will probably give you a stroke.
 
2013-04-23 10:57:24 AM  

way south: santadog: I don't want to take pills for my condition.


When my dogs don't want to take their pills, I hide them in their cookie treats.

/if only there was a way to hide pot like that.


You obviously didn't see the rest of the post where I listed all the other ways to consume pot including eating it.. and the other comment where I mentioned 2 dozen pot cookies in my kitchen.
 
2013-04-23 10:58:58 AM  

BafflerMeal: Technically no. There are drugs on the market today that are chemicals that have never existed in nature in any form. There are a lot of hail marys that go into phase one testing.


Depending on how you want to view it, either all phase one tests are hail mary's, or none of them are.  Either you think it's a hail mary because it has never been tested in humans before so we have no idea what will actually happen, or you think it's not a hail mary because there's a huge mountain of evidence about the drug in animal models that look extremely promising.  Don't be silly and pick and choose based on the drug.
 
2013-04-23 11:01:59 AM  

dogdaze: Another great alternative

[hempnewstv.files.wordpress.com image 416x416]


Bear Grylls urine?
 
2013-04-23 11:03:54 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: You don't have to smoke it to feel the effects....

I present to you


Now that's a safe alternative.


Deliciously, deliciously safe alternative.
 
2013-04-23 11:04:11 AM  
Ridiculous.  With marijuana, there's very little research and development cost as comnpared to inventing and creating new pain relievers, so pharmaceutical companies would cut the margins down to a minimum.  Right?  Guys?


Anyone?
 
2013-04-23 11:07:08 AM  

lennavan: BafflerMeal: Technically no. There are drugs on the market today that are chemicals that have never existed in nature in any form. There are a lot of hail marys that go into phase one testing.

Depending on how you want to view it, either all phase one tests are hail mary's, or none of them are.  Either you think it's a hail mary because it has never been tested in humans before so we have no idea what will actually happen, or you think it's not a hail mary because there's a huge mountain of evidence about the drug in animal models that look extremely promising.  Don't be silly and pick and choose based on the drug.



Didn't say I was.  Both statements are true.  There are drugs today that were wholly created in the lab that have no existence prior to the lab, and there are a lot of hail marys that go into phase one.  I'm sorry if it was written as to sound like I cared either way.  I was addressing the comment I replied to.
 
2013-04-23 11:07:45 AM  
This isn't 'new' research; I read about this easily 15 years ago.

The chemical that causes appetite increases - which is what all the pro-legaized/pro-'medicinal' people claim is a benefit from smoking is easily synthesized and manufactured in pill form. Again old info.

PLUS doing it this way removes the 'intoxicants' from the pot so a user won't get high.

The pro-pot/pro-'medicinal' people have an issue with doing it this way.

Farkers.
 
2013-04-23 11:07:46 AM  

lennavan: Never go to a grocery store.  The sheer number of things that grow in the wild that are sold for profit will probably give you a stroke.


This is Vermont. We have year round farmer's markets.
Cripes, I have a mini banana tree.
 
2013-04-23 11:08:32 AM  

nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.


Citation needed (and be specific to cannabis).
 
2013-04-23 11:11:33 AM  
What concerns me, is the impurities from the soil, weed killer chems, etc, that can be in med MJ.  Totally unregulated and unsupervised.  (I know Big Pharm would do that to (and has I'm sure) if they could get away with it), so I'm not taking sides here (dons flame retardant gear)

Would love to see Big Pharma kicked on their collective asses, but would also love to see tome true scientific research, double blind studies over large population groups, into the risks and benefits of this in all forms. (pill and 'wild')

/According to my cousins facebook feed, MJ oil cured a girl's cancer!\
 
2013-04-23 11:14:19 AM  

Alphakronik: nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.

Citation needed (and be specific to cannabis).


It's a trap!
 
2013-04-23 11:14:26 AM  
Who would choose to take a pill when they could instead take their medicine via brownie or cookie
 
2013-04-23 11:15:55 AM  

Alphakronik: nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.

Citation needed (and be specific to cannabis).


You know as well as I do that there as many studies out there saying that it's perfectly safe as there are saying it's worse than tobacco. I don't believe either to be the case. I don't think it's any more harmful than tobacco at least, I'll give you that. And those who smoke it only once in awhile are mitigating the risk a lot. There are also alternatives to smoking it. I'm just not ready to call smoking ANY substance "perfectly safe". The same byproducts of combustion occur in marijuana as well as tobacco, though tobacco may be significantly worse due to so many additives.

I will say that I rate marijuana, in a big picture sense, as WAAAAAAAAAAAAY below tobacco in terms of harm to the individual as well as harm to society. Same goes for alcohol. It's just not as safe as breathing pure mountain air.
 
2013-04-23 11:16:35 AM  
They can try to sell it all day, but legal weed will obliterate their business.

In any case, I've read about the THC pill, it has NOT been a big hit for a reason. It's much harder to control than smoking, the effects are much less pleasant and more debilitating, and it's not cheap either. There are tremendous advantages to whole-herb formulas, and in the near future, if things go well, it will be dirt cheap (even with high taxes - I can buy a pound of "pipe" tobacco for less than $20, and you can bet most of that is taxes).

The ONLY reason to use Marinol is because you can get it in states where pot is illegal. It's worthless.
 
2013-04-23 11:16:54 AM  

neutronstar: Who would choose to take a pill when they could instead take their medicine via brownie or cookie


Someone nauseous from Chemo.
 
2013-04-23 11:18:55 AM  

vudukungfu: neutronstar: Who would choose to take a pill when they could instead take their medicine via brownie or cookie

Someone nauseous from Chemo.


You're kungfu quick and beat me to it
 
2013-04-23 11:21:21 AM  

nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.


True, but inhaling a drug is the 2nd fastest most effective way to get it into your bloodstream.  A needle is the fast, powder undeer the tongue is 3rd.
 
2013-04-23 11:24:06 AM  

jfivealive: It also makes Pink Floyd sound good


I swear there was a pig in the room.
 
2013-04-23 11:29:11 AM  
img809.imageshack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
2013-04-23 11:32:55 AM  
Whatever gets prohibition abolished.
 
2013-04-23 11:33:43 AM  

lennavan: vudukungfu: Any pharmaceutics concern making a penny from something the grows wild needs a kick in the balls.

Never go to a grocery store.  The sheer number of things that grow in the wild that are sold for profit will probably give you a stroke.


There is almost nothing in the produce section of a grocery store that grows that way in the wild. Just about everything is the result of hundreds, if not thousands, of generations* of cultivation.


*plant generations
 
2013-04-23 11:36:18 AM  
Oh, and I've noticed in this thread some people worrying about "Big Tobacco" getting ahold of cannabis.

I WANT tobacco companies to grow pot! I would probably buy from smaller, artisinal companies, like I did when I smoked tobacco. Go look at what's available in pipe tobacco or cigars or rolling tobacco - tremendous variety, low prices, expertise in growing and preparing the product. Big tobacco would probably produce a low quality, very cheap product, which wouldn't bother me at all - they might also produce an organic product, as American Spirit does (which is owned by Reynolds). I don't really care.

It would also be great fun to see big tobacco eating into big pharma's market. At least they know how to sell something cheaply, while pharma is very big on getting every last penny they can out of sick people.
 
2013-04-23 11:37:13 AM  
Wasn't part of the non-legalization argument that the strength of the thc couldn't be controlled?  Now that every indoor grower has that to a science what's the issue?

  ** don't smoke it, can't, it makes me incredibly STUPID (and for some reason makes my tongue hot and it won't stay in my mouth)
 
2013-04-23 11:39:47 AM  

fireclown: Psycoholic_Slag: fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".

You say that like it's a bad thing.  Thanks for looking out for my best interests.

I don't mean to.  I favor full legalization for recreational use.  But I have come to despise the artifice.  Every time someone starts going on and on about the amazing medical powers (and total lack of negative effects) of Marijuana, they seem to be stoners.  I just want some more honesty in the conversation.


Ohhh shut the fark up. You spout the same shiat every time "I'd be in favor of legalization if potheads would just admit it's for recreational use!" Well here you go: I want it legalized for recreational use. Unfortunately that hasn't worked very well in the past. By pushing its medicinal benefits (and don't argue about the medicinal benefits, you look stupid every time), we can at least get it pushed into a positive light and work from there.

I want some more honesty from you. You show up in damn near every MJ thread spouting the same shiat, while ignoring the farkers that do use it (or their friends/family) for the medicinal benefits. Why do you ignore all of their posts?
 
2013-04-23 11:41:39 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: You don't have to smoke it to feel the effects....

I present to you

[www.ruths-brownies.com image 304x304]
Now that's a safe alternative.


Plus they taste good and don't smell up the house.

/except for the smell of fresh baked brownies
//tasty tasty brownies
 
2013-04-23 11:41:47 AM  

vudukungfu: lennavan: Never go to a grocery store.  The sheer number of things that grow in the wild that are sold for profit will probably give you a stroke.

This is Vermont. We have year round farmer's markets.
Cripes, I have a mini banana tree.



I have a mini blood orange tree in my basement.  I haven't figured out how to pollinate it yet though, dammit.

give me doughnuts: There is almost nothing in the produce section of a grocery store that grows that way in the wild. Just about everything is the result of hundreds, if not thousands, of generations* of cultivation.



The tomatoes I grow in my backyard are 10x tastier than any tomato I've ever bought from a store.

You're both missing the point.  vudukungfu seemed to think companies profiting off things you can grow yourself was wildly outrageous.  It's not always about access, it's also about convenience.  You can grow tobacco, yet tobacco companies still exist.  You can have your own cow, yet dairy farmers still have jobs.  You can buy a permit and go fish up your own fish.  Fish just live in the wild, you can just go out and catch one.  Yet there are lots of people profiting off of the fishing industry.

If we legalize pot, pharmaceutical companies growing pot and packaging it for you to generate a profit isn't exactly crazy.  They don't need a kick in the balls.
 
2013-04-23 11:42:25 AM  
I'm pretty sure that right now the "traditional" method for pain is by eating.
 
2013-04-23 11:42:29 AM  

SlashW: Wasn't part of the non-legalization argument that the strength of the thc couldn't be controlled?  Now that every indoor grower has that to a science what's the issue?

  ** don't smoke it, can't, it makes me incredibly STUPID (and for some reason makes my tongue hot and it won't stay in my mouth)


Ehhh not really. That's actually one of the arguments against the pill form. As it comes in pre-measured doses, you can't control how much you intake, which can make you feel worse than if you hadn't taken anything.

SlashW: ** don't smoke it, can't, it makes me incredibly STUPID (and for some reason makes my tongue hot and it won't stay in my mouth)


How YOU doin?
 
2013-04-23 11:44:12 AM  

nekom: vpb:
Yes, but I thought there was a THC pill already on the market.  Besides, for some medical conditions the hazard of smoking is kind of irrelevant.

Marinol, I believe. And I agree, in the case of a terminally ill patient, smoke away. But for an otherwise healthy person suffering from glaucoma, non-terminal cancer who need the appetite boost, etc. it's a bit safer. I support both medical and responsible recreational use among adults, but I can't say that smoking any substance is "safe".


Well, certainly smoking plant material is not as safe as other methods, but it's relative.  If you smoked 1 joint a day, it's the same as walking down the street in the city inhaling all the crap that cars spew out.  Smoking 1 joint a day will not significantly increase your chances of contracting cancer.  I've read an article that suggests that cannabis actually has a protective effect against cancer.
 
2013-04-23 11:46:09 AM  

scottydoesntknow: fireclown: Psycoholic_Slag: fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".

You say that like it's a bad thing.  Thanks for looking out for my best interests.

I don't mean to.  I favor full legalization for recreational use.  But I have come to despise the artifice.  Every time someone starts going on and on about the amazing medical powers (and total lack of negative effects) of Marijuana, they seem to be stoners.  I just want some more honesty in the conversation.

Ohhh shut the fark up. You spout the same shiat every time "I'd be in favor of legalization if potheads would just admit it's for recreational use!" Well here you go: I want it legalized for recreational use. Unfortunately that hasn't worked very well in the past. By pushing its medicinal benefits (and don't argue about the medicinal benefits, you look stupid every time), we can at least get it pushed into a positive light and work from there.

I want some more honesty from you. You show up in damn near every MJ thread spouting the same shiat, while ignoring the farkers that do use it (or their friends/family) for the medicinal benefits. Why do you ignore all of their posts?


Somebody somewhere said marijuana never causes any problems and he just wants to address that this may be undermining marijuana legalization.  He's just looking for the people that always do that to provide some honesty.  He's just very, very concerned that these people may be using medicine as a ruse for drug legalization.

This could be bad... for marijuana.
 
2013-04-23 11:47:45 AM  

SlashW: ** don't smoke it, can't, it makes me incredibly STUPID (and for some reason makes my tongue hot and it won't stay in my mouth)


How YOU doin'?
 
2013-04-23 11:50:10 AM  
scottydoesntknowwins the race.

/shakes tiny fist
 
2013-04-23 11:50:24 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I'm pretty sure that right now the "traditional" method for pain is by eating.


Tinctures are actually better than baked goods or other foods.  You can get a much more controlled dose and it comes on much more quickly and doesn't last so long.  Eating THC in foods can be really hit-or-miss, depending on what else you've eaten, how hydrated you are, how fast your metabolism is, etc.  With a few drops of tincture, you get a much faster result that doesn't last nearly as long, it's much more controlled.
 
2013-04-23 11:53:15 AM  
So you can inject it?
 
2013-04-23 11:54:51 AM  

santadog: That 2 dozen chocolate chip pot cookies in my kitchen.. MUCH better than taking a pill.

Edibles are the way to go.


That's mostly what I would use if I could, but the problem is, I've never really used marijuana in any form before, so it knocks me out. I'm sitting here looking at two dark chocolate bars laden with cannabis and thinking "mmmm...cookies", but I know if I do that, one cookie will mean being knocked on my chubby ass for the next 6-8 hours. I also am looking at a half ounce of Harlequin (high CBD, low psychoreactivity, doesn't make me AS drowsy) and I know that if I need it, I'll take one or two puffs and be peachy keen for a couple hours, at least. I'll also be less inclined to eat everything in sight, as apparently nomming on a chocolate bar with pot in it just makes me want more chocolate-y goodness.

Also, unless they're going to let us start buying the pills from the dispensary just like we do our chocolate bars, cannabutter and bud, then I'll bump into the same problem I had that made me switch from Vicodin to medical pot in the first place. Lots of doctors that don't want to give you pills because they think you're "too young" to have chronic pain, a lifetime of rowdiness not counting toward "things that can cause you significant, chronic pain when you're in your 40's", I guess.

I'll stick to the bud, especially since I lack health insurance AND I'm kind of figuring out my limit on Cannabis laced chocolate is about one quarter of a dose for other people.

Hear that, slightly rowdy middle aged stoner metal head type dudes? Cheap date, right here. Just lock up yer booze, because I will devastate huge swaths of your liquor cabinet in no time flat. Your pot, medical or otherwise, is most likely safe.
 
2013-04-23 11:56:41 AM  

dryknife: So you can inject it?


Suuuurrrre...just make sure that you use a clean needle. Ya' don't want to get HIV from a dirty marijuana needle.
 
2013-04-23 11:57:08 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Rapmaster2000: I'm pretty sure that right now the "traditional" method for pain is by eating.

Tinctures are actually better than baked goods or other foods.  You can get a much more controlled dose and it comes on much more quickly and doesn't last so long.  Eating THC in foods can be really hit-or-miss, depending on what else you've eaten, how hydrated you are, how fast your metabolism is, etc.  With a few drops of tincture, you get a much faster result that doesn't last nearly as long, it's much more controlled.


My father has been using half a tablespoon of hemp oil infused with weed daily for his back pain.  He'd never had weed before and started using just this year after I hooked him up.

I got him the oil because I knew he'd never smoke anything.  I'm pretty amateur on this whole medical MJ thing so now I'm off to look up tinctures.
 
2013-04-23 11:57:34 AM  

lennavan: I have a mini blood orange tree in my basement. I haven't figured out how to pollinate it yet though, dammit.


Try buying it a drink first.
 
2013-04-23 11:59:04 AM  
Haven't read the whole thread, so perhaps someone has already pointed this out-- but part of the draw of medical cannabis is that it isn't another pill.

When my (late, RIP, Ryan) boyfriend was living with cancer, he had to take handfuls of pills several times a day. For someone suffering nausea, this could be hard to keep down in the first place.

Vaporizing pot can be the key to being able to keep all your other medicines from flying back out of your stomach.
 
2013-04-23 11:59:29 AM  
THC doesn't absorb into the body during digestion very well unless it's bonded to a lipid. Thats why all the edibles people are posting are high in fats. Putting it in a pill doesn't make sense. It's best absorbed in aeresol form, or as a tincture.
 
2013-04-23 12:01:56 PM  
If it's anything like Marinol, then it will do exactly squat as ALL of the chemicals are important to the effect of pain relief you're trying to achieve.
 
2013-04-23 12:02:32 PM  

nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.


This is why a lot of patients choose to vape or eat.
 
2013-04-23 12:06:17 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Lots of doctors that don't want to give you pills because they think you're "too young" to have chronic pain...


That's the sort of shiat that kept me living with untreated axial arthritis for 9 years. Yeah, I was totally faking the limp and back spasms.
 
2013-04-23 12:06:35 PM  

fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".


No, this is you not understanding exactly why these pills don't work.  Check my previous postings.
 
2013-04-23 12:07:11 PM  
C'mon Illinois voters... you've flirted with this idea for a couple goes now... just legalize the damn stuff. I like living here but that would put it over the top. I still generally think it's a given within the next 5 years (maybe 8-10 at worst).

/not sure if I would be comfortable going to a doc and pretending I have headaches or whatever though
//wish I could just say it relaxes me
///not hard to come by regardless
 
2013-04-23 12:07:32 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: If it's anything like Marinol, then it will do exactly squat as ALL of the chemicals are important to the effect of pain relief you're trying to achieve.


It will probably be synthesized and have all kinds of horrible side effects, not to mention that it'll probably cost an arm and a leg and won't be covered by some health insurance plans.
 
2013-04-23 12:08:38 PM  
I have a family member had chronic head pain as a result of a car accident. They used to give her all kinds of painkillers, many of which had horrible side effects (like screaming nightmares.) She had to take handfuls of those just to function. Now she just has a little pot, and everything's fine.

If you have never had a loved one in chronic pain, trust me when I say you would do ANYTHING to provide relief. I'd have fed her slices of my own skin if it would have helped. Medical pot is a godsend, and all you guys who oppose it can STFU and DIAF
 
2013-04-23 12:08:49 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Tinctures are actually better than baked goods or other foods.  You can get a much more controlled dose and it comes on much more quickly and doesn't last so long.  Eating THC in foods can be really hit-or-miss, depending on what else you've eaten, how hydrated you are, how fast your metabolism is, etc.  With a few drops of tincture, you get a much faster result that doesn't last nearly as long, it's much more controlled.


Ok, so do you know, what is the difference between the tinctures and the concentrates? My dispensary carries both (and a whole lotta other stuff, including caramel corn!) and they're both pretty spendy. Are they interchangeable, used differently, just a quick way to treat the issue? Just thought I'd ask here, cuz the guy at the dispensary is .... distracting. Not in a good way, either.
 
2013-04-23 12:13:42 PM  

lennavan: vudukungfu: lennavan: Never go to a grocery store.  The sheer number of things that grow in the wild that are sold for profit will probably give you a stroke.

This is Vermont. We have year round farmer's markets.
Cripes, I have a mini banana tree.

I have a mini blood orange tree in my basement.  I haven't figured out how to pollinate it yet though, dammit.

give me doughnuts: There is almost nothing in the produce section of a grocery store that grows that way in the wild. Just about everything is the result of hundreds, if not thousands, of generations* of cultivation.

The tomatoes I grow in my backyard are 10x tastier than any tomato I've ever bought from a store.

You're both missing the point.  vudukungfu seemed to think companies profiting off things you can grow yourself was wildly outrageous.  It's not always about access, it's also about convenience.  You can grow tobacco, yet tobacco companies still exist.  You can have your own cow, yet dairy farmers still have jobs.  You can buy a permit and go fish up your own fish.  Fish just live in the wild, you can just go out and catch one.  Yet there are lots of people profiting off of the fishing industry.

If we legalize pot, pharmaceutical companies growing pot and packaging it for you to generate a profit isn't exactly crazy.  They don't need a kick in the balls.


Has Starkist patented tuna?
Does Dole have the rights to pineapple?
Does Burpee (or whoever) hold a copyright on the variety of tomato you grow in your back yard?

That's what we're talking about. This is just a step on the road to granting some pharmaceutical company a patent on a plant that has been used in it's current form for the past 6,000 years as a medicine.
 
2013-04-23 12:13:49 PM  

Kibbler: JackieRabbit: nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.

No, this isn't true. Marijuana smoke does not cause cancer, heart disease or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Not a single case of any of these smoking related-disease has ever been linked to marijuana use. A few studies have found some minor airway changes in the lungs after years of heavy pot smoking, but these changes are fully reversible. Quite to the contrary, marijuana is a mild bronchodilator, which can help asthmatics breath easier without the cardiovascular side effects.

Smoking it used to make my heart pound at an alarming rate, and make my ears ring.  I was young so I ignored it, naturally.  I wouldn't touch it now, if it were legal.

I think the stuff should be legal, but any drug has its dangers.

/flame away


I'm of the belief that D.A.R.E. should be outlawed and replaced with a comprehensive drug education program, one where the pros and cons of each drug are listed (instead of simply fear mongering, or pretending that certain substances can't have negative effects) and abstinence from said drugs is given as an option.  More like a sexual education program as they are run in states that aren't full of mouth breathers.
 
2013-04-23 12:15:09 PM  
Look, I'm not 'the man', I'm not some ultra conservative with a stick up my ass. I'm not a giggly kid, I'm mature - I'm in my middle 30's, and I know folks my age and older who still try to convince me that they're in it for medical reasons. Why do people continually show me such disrespect that they have to lie to me?  Why is it so hard for people to just admit they want to get high?

All you folks out there that are lying right now, realize that the reason you incite such vitriol is because when you lie to us in such an obvious way, what you are really telling us is one of two things:

  "I do not respect you."
             and/or
  "I do not respect myself."

Either marks YOU as someone who is not deserving of respect.

That's why some people treat you like a reprobate, not because you like to get high, but because you treat others and/or yourself like crap.
 
2013-04-23 12:16:25 PM  

lennavan: I have a mini blood orange tree in my basement. I haven't figured out how to pollinate it yet though, dammit.


Either set it outside when it blooms, or use a small paintbrush or Q-Tip to transfer pollen between the blooms.
 
2013-04-23 12:18:25 PM  

quietwalker: Look, I'm not 'the man', I'm not some ultra conservative with a stick up my ass. I'm not a giggly kid, I'm mature - I'm in my middle 30's, and I know folks my age and older who still try to convince me that they're in it for medical reasons. Why do people continually show me such disrespect that they have to lie to me?  Why is it so hard for people to just admit they want to get high?

All you folks out there that are lying right now, realize that the reason you incite such vitriol is because when you lie to us in such an obvious way, what you are really telling us is one of two things:

  "I do not respect you."
             and/or
  "I do not respect myself."

Either marks YOU as someone who is not deserving of respect.

That's why some people treat you like a reprobate, not because you like to get high, but because you treat others and/or yourself like crap.


Did we find fireclown's alt? Spewing the same shiat, just a different name.
 
2013-04-23 12:20:07 PM  

vudukungfu: neutronstar: Who would choose to take a pill when they could instead take their medicine via brownie or cookie

Someone nauseous from Chemo.


How would you be able to keep down a pill if you're too nauseous for food?
 
2013-04-23 12:22:08 PM  

SlashW: Wasn't part of the non-legalization argument that the strength of the thc couldn't be controlled?  Now that every indoor grower has that to a science what's the issue?

  ** don't smoke it, can't, it makes me incredibly STUPID (and for some reason makes my tongue hot and it won't stay in my mouth)


That part makes me think that you risk anaphylaxis every time you smoke it.
 
2013-04-23 12:25:57 PM  

scottydoesntknow: SlashW: Wasn't part of the non-legalization argument that the strength of the thc couldn't be controlled?  Now that every indoor grower has that to a science what's the issue?

  ** don't smoke it, can't, it makes me incredibly STUPID (and for some reason makes my tongue hot and it won't stay in my mouth)

Ehhh not really. That's actually one of the arguments against the pill form. As it comes in pre-measured doses, you can't control how much you intake, which can make you feel worse than if you hadn't taken anything.

SlashW: ** don't smoke it, can't, it makes me incredibly STUPID (and for some reason makes my tongue hot and it won't stay in my mouth)

How YOU doin?


Clicks on SlashW's profile...




farm7.staticflickr.com
 
2013-04-23 12:27:39 PM  

quietwalker: Look, I'm not 'the man', I'm not some ultra conservative with a stick up my ass. I'm not a giggly kid, I'm mature - I'm in my middle 30's, and I know folks my age and older who still try to convince me that they're in it for medical reasons. Why do people continually show me such disrespect that they have to lie to me?  Why is it so hard for people to just admit they want to get high?

All you folks out there that are lying right now, realize that the reason you incite such vitriol is because when you lie to us in such an obvious way, what you are really telling us is one of two things:

  "I do not respect you."
             and/or
  "I do not respect myself."

Either marks YOU as someone who is not deserving of respect.

That's why some people treat you like a reprobate, not because you like to get high, but because you treat others and/or yourself like crap.


No, we treat you like crap because you, like other Farkers in this thread, are choosing to ignore both the Farkers like myself who are openly in it for the recreation AND the Farkers who need it or have family members who need it for medicinal purposes.

And I'm sorry, but I simply can't afford to grant any respect to somebody who has already made it clear that they refuse to respect me no matter what I say.
 
2013-04-23 12:28:25 PM  
No, you know what?  I'm not sorry.  You can go right ahead and fark yourself raw.
 
2013-04-23 12:28:37 PM  

leviosaurus: I have a family member had chronic head pain as a result of a car accident. They used to give her all kinds of painkillers, many of which had horrible side effects (like screaming nightmares.) She had to take handfuls of those just to function. Now she just has a little pot, and everything's fine.

If you have never had a loved one in chronic pain, trust me when I say you would do ANYTHING to provide relief. I'd have fed her slices of my own skin if it would have helped. Medical pot is a godsend, and all you guys who oppose it can STFU and DIAF


Yep.
 
2013-04-23 12:30:50 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: No, you know what?  I'm not sorry.  You can go right ahead and fark yourself raw.


Lol
 
2013-04-23 12:31:18 PM  

Jubeebee: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Lots of doctors that don't want to give you pills because they think you're "too young" to have chronic pain...

That's the sort of shiat that kept me living with untreated axial arthritis for 9 years. Yeah, I was totally faking the limp and back spasms.


You hit that point where you know it's not going to get any better, only worse, and when doctors won't listen, it's even more frustrating than just the pain and losing function of limbs. One of my legs suddenly quit responding and the pain hit record levels. I had to rely on the ER (no insurance) and it wasn't until I flipped out on them because my muscles had atrophied so badly in that leg that they figured there may indeed be an issue.

I STILL ended up just lurking outside the county health clinic and buying pain meds from the poor people for about a year, and got the use of my leg back by designing my own PT program at home. I am still very distrustful of medical personnel because of years of many of them minimizing and even insulting me for the combination of pain and "holy crap, this is not cool" I was going through at its peak. Having to go to a doctor monthly to refill a pill for something I could grow in the shed is not going to happen.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with the medical marijuana for myself, but it's been incredibly helpful. I also wake up with less stiffness and pain, not to mention I actually sleep for more than a couple hours at a time after I do use it (which is not daily, but close). I'm kind of sorry I wasn't first in line for the "pot paper" when it first became legal. I would have saved myself a whole lot of bad days. I think the whole "not comfy" thing is a lifetime of "marijuana bad", because there's no other reason I can think of for me not to be totally chill with it.
 
2013-04-23 12:36:29 PM  
The thing people are missing is by inhalation, the pain relief is nearly instant.  A pill must be metabolized.
You don't have to smoke it, you vaporize it.  There's no carcinogens in vapor but there is in smoke, even pot smoke.
 
2013-04-23 12:40:59 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: quietwalker: Look, I'm not 'the man', I'm not some ultra conservative with a stick up my ass. I'm not a giggly kid, I'm mature - I'm in my middle 30's, and I know folks my age and older who still try to convince me that they're in it for medical reasons. Why do people continually show me such disrespect that they have to lie to me?  Why is it so hard for people to just admit they want to get high?

All you folks out there that are lying right now, realize that the reason you incite such vitriol is because when you lie to us in such an obvious way, what you are really telling us is one of two things:

  "I do not respect you."
             and/or
  "I do not respect myself."

Either marks YOU as someone who is not deserving of respect.

That's why some people treat you like a reprobate, not because you like to get high, but because you treat others and/or yourself like crap.

No, we treat you like crap because you, like other Farkers in this thread, are choosing to ignore both the Farkers like myself who are openly in it for the recreation AND the Farkers who need it or have family members who need it for medicinal purposes.

And I'm sorry, but I simply can't afford to grant any respect to somebody who has already made it clear that they refuse to respect me no matter what I say.


Responding to the most recent post, though they're all in the same line; overly defensive, overtly aggressive,  and using my outrage as proof that I'm actually overly conservative, etc, etc, all the things I said I wasn't.

I'm clearly expressing myself to those who are lying.  If you are not lying, you have no reason to be offended by this, much less make assumptions about what my thoughts are regarding marijuana use.  My issue was with people who openly and obviously lie to me, especially when they're people I've known for a while, and assumed some level of mutual respect.

That you'd take umbrage with my screed against liars implies (without any certainty) that you, yourself, are among them.  I'm going to assume for now that it was just certain individuals who are used to metaphorical screaming and ranting just to be heard, used to being ignored and distrusted,  clouded by emotions, and whom at another time would be more capable of rational discussion.

...

Not that it matters, even in the slightest, but I think marijuana should be legalized.  There's no valid reason I can comprehend why it's wouldn't be treated - in the worst case - any differently than alcohol.  What's the BFD?

I just don't people who lie to my face, and I suspect that few people do.
 
2013-04-23 12:41:23 PM  

give me doughnuts: That's what we're talking about.


No it isn't.

give me doughnuts: This is just a step on the road to granting some pharmaceutical company a patent on a plant that has been used in it's current form for the past 6,000 years as a medicine.


No it isn't.  If you smoked pot instead of crack, you never would have hallucinated this sentence.
 
2013-04-23 12:41:34 PM  

RockofAges: You'll get there. Stigma is a powerful force even if you are aware of it and the influence it has. Also, our side has cookies


I'm a chef. Our side could soon have an entire tasting menu, though I will be sure to include cookies or a cookie like item. For medicinal purposes and enjoyment, both.

/thinking of trying my hand at a cannabutter pizza dough
 
2013-04-23 12:42:50 PM  

give me doughnuts: lennavan: I have a mini blood orange tree in my basement. I haven't figured out how to pollinate it yet though, dammit.

Either set it outside when it blooms, or use a small paintbrush or Q-Tip to transfer pollen between the blooms.


Yeah I tried those, I guess I didn't really have the patience for the Q-Tip thing.  You have to do it for like a dozen or more different flowers every day.  I'm just waiting for the weather to warm up and I'll put it back outside.
 
2013-04-23 12:42:58 PM  
Weird how when the pharmaceutical companies synthesize THC, it somehow, magically becomes physically addictive.

I guess it's just one of those odd coincidences.
 
2013-04-23 12:44:44 PM  
www.bartcop.com
 
2013-04-23 12:48:09 PM  

santadog: That 2 dozen chocolate chip pot cookies in my kitchen.. MUCH better than taking a pill.

Edibles are the way to go.


Ill be right over with a gallon of milk.
 
2013-04-23 12:48:41 PM  
Is this where I'm supposed to troll about how dangerous any smoke is ?

and that I'd sure love to support legalizing it but yeah... that smoke is so terrible, it's like battery acid being poured on a baby?
Or maybe I allege that I do support legalization, but I solely came here to point out smoke is still bad... because there is a severe lack of captain farking obvious on this planet.

Letting big pharma take the reigns never ends up with people sick &/or dying from a "safe and approved" drug, right?

I've watched my mother go through stupid bullshiat that definitely has cut years off her life on this earth with our family because of an "approved" FDA drug. All FDA approved means these days is the proper bribes exchanged hands before you received your product.

I'll stick with ingesting the natural plant, free from other bullshiat, in whatever form I want including smoke.

Why?
Because, this is America
and fark you,
that's why.

And because I truly believe that whatever radicals and carcinogens I'm ingesting along with the THC is likely still better for me than whatever might come out of a pill factory run by a dystopian global mega-corporation hell bent on repeat business.

/yeah, they'll give you your THC
//along with 1000mg of tylenol to make sure you're back to purchase those liver and kidney drugs in 15-20 years
 
2013-04-23 12:50:44 PM  

MurphyMurphy: I've watched my mother go through stupid bullshiat that definitely has cut years off her life on this earth with our family because of an "approved" FDA drug. All FDA approved means these days is the proper bribes exchanged hands before you received your product.


Kinda makes you wonder why the age expectancy keeps going up, despite all of those toxic FDA approved drugs like Tylenol that cut years off of our lives, right?
 
2013-04-23 12:51:35 PM  
If someone has terminal cancer they should get a free pass to take whatever makes the pain easier to handle. There's few things worse than chronic pain that won't go away no matter whether you sit, stand, lie down, waking or sleeping, and always knowing that your own body's malfunctioning cells are proliferating wildly in order to make it worse.
 
2013-04-23 12:56:24 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Jubeebee: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Lots of doctors that don't want to give you pills because they think you're "too young" to have chronic pain...

That's the sort of shiat that kept me living with untreated axial arthritis for 9 years. Yeah, I was totally faking the limp and back spasms.

You hit that point where you know it's not going to get any better, only worse, and when doctors won't listen, it's even more frustrating than just the pain and losing function of limbs. One of my legs suddenly quit responding and the pain hit record levels. I had to rely on the ER (no insurance) and it wasn't until I flipped out on them because my muscles had atrophied so badly in that leg that they figured there may indeed be an issue.

I STILL ended up just lurking outside the county health clinic and buying pain meds from the poor people for about a year, and got the use of my leg back by designing my own PT program at home. I am still very distrustful of medical personnel because of years of many of them minimizing and even insulting me for the combination of pain and "holy crap, this is not cool" I was going through at its peak. Having to go to a doctor monthly to refill a pill for something I could grow in the shed is not going to happen.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with the medical marijuana for myself, but it's been incredibly helpful. I also wake up with less stiffness and pain, not to mention I actually sleep for more than a couple hours at a time after I do use it (which is not daily, but close). I'm kind of sorry I wasn't first in line for the "pot paper" when it first became legal. I would have saved myself a whole lot of bad days. I think the whole "not comfy" thing is a lifetime of "marijuana bad", because there's no other reason I can think of for me not to be totally chill with it.


My sympathies; it sounds like you had it much worse, and much longer than me, with whatever it is you have.

I had gotten the brush off enough times that I just stopped going to doctors. Weight training, stretching, and 1200mg ibuprofen before bed every night kept me mobile enough most days. It took months of my girlfriend arguing that not everyone has back spasms every time they spend more than two consecutive hours in a chair before I finally went in and demanded an MRI.

Getting diagnosed changed my life. Cannabis is a secondary but important remedy for me; I only use it for flareups rather than daily maintenance. But it works better than ibuprofen at reducing inflammation and doesn't burn holes in my stomach.
 
2013-04-23 01:00:04 PM  
Butter is SO easy to make. We make it with shake (or discarded sucker leaves and stalks). Basically take a piece of cheesecloth and fill it with enough grass so that it is about the size of a small (mini ?) watermelon).

Put 4 sticks (1 pound) of butter in the bottom of a crock pot.
Put the cheesecloth filled with grass on the butter.
Set it to a low temp
Let the butter melt completely.
Add 4 more sticks of butter on top
let these melt and let the whole thing simmer for about 8 - 12 hours
strain the cheesecloth into the butter
strain the butter
Put in small containeers and freeze or refridgerate

Use like normal butter :)
 
2013-04-23 01:04:14 PM  

lennavan: MurphyMurphy: I've watched my mother go through stupid bullshiat that definitely has cut years off her life on this earth with our family because of an "approved" FDA drug. All FDA approved means these days is the proper bribes exchanged hands before you received your product.

Kinda makes you wonder why the age expectancy keeps going up, despite all of those toxic FDA approved drugs like Tylenol that cut years off of our lives, right?


Fark me, I never realized.

I mean, if life expectancy is going up... then literally everything we do in a day must be good for us! STOP THE PRESSES!
 
2013-04-23 01:04:40 PM  
So.. the only thing keeping cannabis from being an acceptable medicine is that it is grown by Big Worm  instead of being manufactured by Big Pharma?

Wow, whodavfarkingthinkint?
 
2013-04-23 01:05:38 PM  

quietwalker: I just don't people who lie to my face, and I suspect that few people do.


So why come into a thread to complain about the few who do lie to your face? And to that point, why would you then accuse random people on internet forums of being liars?

More importantly, you're making assumptions about what I said in my response to you.  Did I call you conservative?  No.  I merely stated that you're ignoring the people who are actually present in this thread for the purpose of ranting about the monster in your head.

And the sad part is that you're going to walk away from this thinking that everybody else is the farked up party.
 
2013-04-23 01:06:58 PM  
We made butter in my college apartment once, not sure if we didn't use enough/low quality green but the brownie batch we made didn't do much for me and my friend. We went to the bowling alley after eating 2-3 of them over a couple hours and didn't feel much, although my neighbor who didn't really smoke had one and her eyes were bloodshot and she was going nuts (not in a bad way).

It also made the apartment smell like ass for 24 hours or so. And the green butter was pretty vile on its own... the brownies were alright, a bit gritty/grassy but still tasted like brownies. I don't think I could've passed them off as regular brownies unless the other person was an idiot though.

We've talked about trying again now that I'm in a house, but whenever we have enough stuff to make it, the bowl is just too convenient and tempting.
 
2013-04-23 01:08:42 PM  

RockofAges: Real Women Drink Akvavit: RockofAges: You'll get there. Stigma is a powerful force even if you are aware of it and the influence it has. Also, our side has cookies

I'm a chef. Our side could soon have an entire tasting menu, though I will be sure to include cookies or a cookie like item. For medicinal purposes and enjoyment, both.

/thinking of trying my hand at a cannabutter pizza dough

My experience is that it is a very earthy taste at times and so it's usually best to really bury it in savoury flavours. Gravies are surprisingly good. Deep tomato sauces with lots of other herbs, another ideal candidate. Once it's been "buddered", it doesn't matter what medium you use it in really as long as you don't scorch it.


The first thing I noticed with that chocolate was the taste of the herb. It isn't unpleasant, it's just something I'm not accustomed to tasting. It's not going to take me too terribly long to figure out how to work with it, but it's good to know I'm on the right track when I'm thinking "wherever you're going to have strong, herbal flavors".
 
2013-04-23 01:10:56 PM  
Americans like pills. They're convenient.
 
2013-04-23 01:12:18 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: RockofAges: Real Women Drink Akvavit: RockofAges: You'll get there. Stigma is a powerful force even if you are aware of it and the influence it has. Also, our side has cookies

I'm a chef. Our side could soon have an entire tasting menu, though I will be sure to include cookies or a cookie like item. For medicinal purposes and enjoyment, both.

/thinking of trying my hand at a cannabutter pizza dough

My experience is that it is a very earthy taste at times and so it's usually best to really bury it in savoury flavours. Gravies are surprisingly good. Deep tomato sauces with lots of other herbs, another ideal candidate. Once it's been "buddered", it doesn't matter what medium you use it in really as long as you don't scorch it.

The first thing I noticed with that chocolate was the taste of the herb. It isn't unpleasant, it's just something I'm not accustomed to tasting. It's not going to take me too terribly long to figure out how to work with it, but it's good to know I'm on the right track when I'm thinking "wherever you're going to have strong, herbal flavors".


Cannabis always gives food the a slight hint of a minty taste to me.  Anybody else get this?

/mmmm, mint chocolate brownies
 
2013-04-23 01:14:13 PM  

Strik3r: Butter is SO easy to make. We make it with shake (or discarded sucker leaves and stalks). Basically take a piece of cheesecloth and fill it with enough grass so that it is about the size of a small (mini ?) watermelon).

Put 4 sticks (1 pound) of butter in the bottom of a crock pot.
Put the cheesecloth filled with grass on the butter.
Set it to a low temp
Let the butter melt completely.
Add 4 more sticks of butter on top
let these melt and let the whole thing simmer for about 8 - 12 hours
strain the cheesecloth into the butter
strain the butter
Put in small containeers and freeze or refridgerate

Use like normal butter :)


I hadn't thought of using a crockpot.  I like!  All I've seen previously involved PITA double-boiler setups.

/Now I want a crockpot.
 
2013-04-23 01:16:07 PM  

MurphyMurphy: lennavan: MurphyMurphy: I've watched my mother go through stupid bullshiat that definitely has cut years off her life on this earth with our family because of an "approved" FDA drug. All FDA approved means these days is the proper bribes exchanged hands before you received your product.

Kinda makes you wonder why the age expectancy keeps going up, despite all of those toxic FDA approved drugs like Tylenol that cut years off of our lives, right?

Fark me, I never realized.

I mean, if life expectancy is going up... then literally everything we do in a day must be good for us! STOP THE PRESSES!


Hey, Fark me too.  I never realized if you totally imagine your mom had years cut off of her life solely due to an FDA approved drug, that means all FDA approved drugs are accepted based on bribery only.  STOP THE PRESSES
 
2013-04-23 01:16:20 PM  

lewismarktwo: So.. the only thing keeping cannabis from being an acceptable medicine is that it is grown by Big Worm  instead of being manufactured by Big Pharma?

Wow, whodavfarkingthinkint?


No, the only thing that keeps it from being an acceptable medicine is the 80 years of misinformation, lies, cover-ups, propaganda and complete lack of legitimate research all due to the scientific facts getting in the way of politicians who would sooner eat shiat than admit they were wrong about something.

And that being what followed two decades of industries already full vested into cotton and wood trying to demonize the plant because it was a very real threat to specific corporations and magnates.

Presently addressing these mistakes is hindered because keeping it illegal (and by extension, keeping many people in for-profit prisons) is a multi-billion dollar endevour spreading across more industries than you can imagine and at the source is keeping the arrests and incarcerations ever-rising.
/shiat, it's better than slave labor, in 1820 you couldn't plant a small amount of a plant onto someone, slap them into shackles and sell them to the nearest plantation.

Wow, whodavfarkingthinkint?
Oh..... right,  history books and current events. I forgot about those.  That's whodavfarkingthinkint.
 
2013-04-23 01:17:02 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: RockofAges: You'll get there. Stigma is a powerful force even if you are aware of it and the influence it has. Also, our side has cookies

I'm a chef. Our side could soon have an entire tasting menu, though I will be sure to include cookies or a cookie like item. For medicinal purposes and enjoyment, both.

/thinking of trying my hand at a cannabutter pizza dough


There was a somewhat interesting show about the history of pot in the US on tv recently, and one of the pot dispensaries was doing just that; they were making various candies and cookies and other treats.  Seemed like a good way to disassociate it from the stigma that's increasingly surrounding smoking of anything, much less the stigma of drug use in general.  Doesn't require equipment like a vape or papers or even a lighter, and it's indistinguishable from normal food, so it's handy, portable, and discrete.

The guy doing it claimed to have been a chef for 15 years prior, and it looked like he had a good handle on things.  Made the folks sitting there with a grinder, licking papers, and using a clip to get every last bit look like cavemen, compared to the guy who eats a peanut butter cup or the girl who sucks on a lollypop.

So - get in the business while it's still booming!
 
2013-04-23 01:19:39 PM  
See what happens when you get all derped up about pharmaceutical companies?  You say stupid stuff like:

MurphyMurphy: it's better than slave labor


and

MurphyMurphy: complete lack of legitimate research


THERE IS A COMPLETE LACK OF LEGITIMATE RESEARCH!!! How do I know that you ask?  Why:

MurphyMurphy: all due to the scientific facts


SCIENTIFIC FACTS OF COURSE

/dont ask where those scientific facts came from.

I mean I'm with your conclusion, pot should be legal for sure.  But man you're stupid.
 
2013-04-23 01:22:48 PM  

lennavan: Hey, Fark me too. I never realized if you totally imagine your mom had years cut off of her life solely due to an FDA approved drug, that means all FDA approved drugs are accepted based on bribery only. STOP THE PRESSES


Dude you're all over the place.
You've either never had someone teach you sound logic, or you're the worst $5/month troll I've ever seen.

ph0rk: Americans like pills. They're convenient. feels good man

 
2013-04-23 01:23:45 PM  

Jubeebee: My sympathies; it sounds like you had it much worse, and much longer than me, with whatever it is you have.


I've heard a lot of things, but they seem to be sticking to "components of fibromyalgia" now, which I think is doctor code for "fark if we know, but it involves a lot of nerve pain". That's what I thought about the "RSD, most likely" theory, too. I'm actually going in for a MRI tomorrow on my neck, as I did break it at one point in my life, along with many other parts of me. Still, you'd think all the other tests would have turned up something and it kind of makes me wonder what the point of stuffing me in that machine yet again just happens to be. Well, besides paying it off, if it's new. That's a lot of money for me, though. I'm considering just canceling it.

The My Little Pony Killer: Cannabis always gives food the a slight hint of a minty taste to me.  Anybody else get this?

/mmmm, mint chocolate brownies


I did not get the mint flavor, but it could be the strain they used in the chocolate bars I buy. I know the strains have different smells to them, so they are obviously going to have different flavors. I did just look at the menu for my dispensary, and they actually sell a mint chocolate drink and a mint chocolate bar, so it's probably a common flavor profile for at least one strain. At least I HOPE whoever's cooking that stuff up has enough pride in their work to take the flavor profile of the strain into account.
 
2013-04-23 01:25:08 PM  

lennavan: See what happens when you get all derped up about pharmaceutical companies?  You say stupid stuff like:

MurphyMurphy: it's better than slave labor

and

MurphyMurphy: complete lack of legitimate research

THERE IS A COMPLETE LACK OF LEGITIMATE RESEARCH!!! How do I know that you ask?  Why:

MurphyMurphy: all due to the scientific facts

SCIENTIFIC FACTS OF COURSE

/dont ask where those scientific facts came from.

I mean I'm with your conclusion, pot should be legal for sure.  But man you're stupid.


Are you going to cry?
Wtf are you on about?
Do you have a point?
Did you miss your lithium dose?
 
2013-04-23 01:26:28 PM  
And on the PITA double boiler above -- mason jar in a saucepan. Opa redneck style!

I don't quite get why you would need anything special for this. The idea is to simmer the grass in the butter for about 12 hours. You could do that with any old pot or pan.............
 
2013-04-23 01:28:41 PM  

MurphyMurphy: You've either never had someone teach you sound logic, or you're the worst $5/month troll I've ever seen.


Logic/trolling such as:

MurphyMurphy: that definitely has cut years off her life on this earth with our family because of an "approved" FDA drug. All FDA approved means these days is the proper bribes exchanged hands before you received your product.


MurphyMurphy: Dude you're all over the place.


All over the place such as:

MurphyMurphy: complete lack of legitimate research all due to the scientific facts


MurphyMurphy: Do you have a point?


Yeah but I think my point is pretty farking clear.
 
2013-04-23 01:31:16 PM  

quietwalker: So - get in the business while it's still booming!


I heard of this place in Colorado called "Ganja Gourmet" that did everything from takeout pizzas to tapenade to brownies. I guess they don't do that anymore, and are more of a dispensary rather than a full on dispensary and restaurant. I'm guessing this means it wasn't as profitable as they'd hoped, but that won't stop me from cooking with it for myself once I'm a bit more comfortable with dosages. Make no mistake - for me this stuff is really a very powerful medication and I have to be careful with how much I'm using. I'm not comfy enough with knowing how much to take at once to use just edibles. Yet. I will get there, and am deeply considering picking up another ounce or just buying some of their cannabutter, but I'm definitely starting small and easy.

/jalepeno lollypop like the ones I used to get in LA, but with cannabis in them, would be AWESOME
 
2013-04-23 01:35:31 PM  

nekom: vpb:
Yes, but I thought there was a THC pill already on the market.  Besides, for some medical conditions the hazard of smoking is kind of irrelevant.

Marinol, I believe. And I agree, in the case of a terminally ill patient, smoke away. But for an otherwise healthy person suffering from glaucoma, non-terminal cancer who need the appetite boost, etc. it's a bit safer. I support both medical and responsible recreational use among adults, but I can't say that smoking any substance is "safe".


Except marinol doesnt work. Couple years ago back home every tom dick and harry pill popper I knew had lots of em.

if you can eat a half dozen pills of any variety at a time and it doesnt get you high. Give you the munchies or help you sleep. Than it doesnt actually do anything.

its a placebo nothing more
 
2013-04-23 01:39:24 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: I've heard a lot of things, but they seem to be sticking to "components of fibromyalgia" now, which I think is doctor code for "fark if we know, but it involves a lot of nerve pain". That's what I thought about the "RSD, most likely" theory, too. I'm actually going in for a MRI tomorrow on my neck, as I did break it at one point in my life, along with many other parts of me. Still, you'd think all the other tests would have turned up something and it kind of makes me wonder what the point of stuffing me in that machine yet again just happens to be. Well, besides paying it off, if it's new. That's a lot of money for me, though. I'm considering just canceling it.


If you haven't had an MRI before, it might be worth it. If you've had an MRI on your neck before, maybe not. Lots of nerves in your neck, and MRIs get a lot of detail. I don't know; when I got mine, that was what gave me my diagnosis, so I'm biased for them.
 
2013-04-23 01:44:35 PM  

nekom: I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.


Well sure, inhaling smoke of any kind isn't healthy. But even discounting all the carcinogens and additives in tobacco that aren't in MJ, the sheer volume of material being smoked is so much less.

Think about how much tobacco is in a cigarette, if you unpack it and loosen it up a bit, it will fill up your palm. Now think about an average "smoker" consuming 10 to 30 times that amount, daily. At that rate, it still takes decades to develop serious health problems.

Given that an MJ smoker would inhale deeper and hold it in longer, I still say a daily MJ smoker who smokes multiple times during the day would have the equivalent to a 2 cigarette a day habit. Hardly the fast lane to an early grave.
 
2013-04-23 01:46:49 PM  

MurphyMurphy: lewismarktwo: So.. the only thing keeping cannabis from being an acceptable medicine is that it is grown by Big Worm  instead of being manufactured by Big Pharma?

Wow, whodavfarkingthinkint?

No, the only thing that keeps it from being an acceptable medicine is the 80 years of misinformation, lies, cover-ups, propaganda and complete lack of legitimate research all due to the scientific facts getting in the way of politicians who would sooner eat shiat than admit they were wrong about something.

And that being what followed two decades of industries already full vested into cotton and wood trying to demonize the plant because it was a very real threat to specific corporations and magnates.

Presently addressing these mistakes is hindered because keeping it illegal (and by extension, keeping many people in for-profit prisons) is a multi-billion dollar endevour spreading across more industries than you can imagine and at the source is keeping the arrests and incarcerations ever-rising.
/shiat, it's better than slave labor, in 1820 you couldn't plant a small amount of a plant onto someone, slap them into shackles and sell them to the nearest plantation.

Wow, whodavfarkingthinkint?
Oh..... right,  history books and current events. I forgot about those.  That's whodavfarkingthinkint.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
PJ-
2013-04-23 01:48:20 PM  
Smoker for quite some time now, and I have never understood why people look so negatively at marijuana.  It's not causing people to go out and eat faces, it's not causing people to run away from a ski hill because of giraffes, it doesn't cause people to jump out a window.  It causes people to mellow out for the most part, sure there are people who get a little wild, but pales in comparison to that college girl who is 'sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo drunk'.

I know engineers, doctors, architects, MPs, police officers, programmers who all blaze regularly.  Some of whom who blaze nightly, but still perform better than sober employees.  Will I get lung cancer from blazing every night?  Maybe, but people are more likely to get lung cancer from smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day, but that's perfectly legal.  When I use the product, will I be inebriated, yes, but not nearly as bad as someone who just drank a 40oz of Rye, but once again, that's perfectly legal.

Who cares if recreational users are pushing the medical aspects in hopes of legalizing it.  People have been pushing the negative medical aspects in hopes of making cigarette smoking illegal, people have been pushing to outlawing big size cups for carbonated sugar drinks using obesity.  Ohhhhhh, you can't have it both ways.

Hypocrites
 
2013-04-23 01:51:36 PM  

RockofAges: Strik3r: And on the PITA double boiler above -- mason jar in a saucepan. Opa redneck style!

I don't quite get why you would need anything special for this. The idea is to simmer the grass in the butter for about 12 hours. You could do that with any old pot or pan.............

The reason is that inside the mason jar you are going to very lightly boil pure butter and green. If you were to just stick that in a pot and heat it to that point, you would reduce the butter in no time into a paste / scorch for the most part. You need to boil this stuff for like 6-8 hours, without it reducing. Mason jar protects it and so it just simmers away in there, no damage, no burning. Of course I'm sure someone could just do it in a saucepan, but I would consider it to be a lot more work, a lot riskier, and probably not as tasty / even-tasting.


We use a crockpot (as stated earlier) on low temp. I would think you could do the same thing with a pan and a stovetop. The critical thing will be keeping the temp low so it doesn't turn your butter into a paste. It never even comes close to that in the crockpot.

Also, I suggest you use a cheesecloth to keep the grass OUT of the butter (even if you do use a mason jar). The cloth lets the butter flow thru but minimizes the amount of grass that actually makes it into the butter. I certainly prefer the butter NOT to have any leaves or stems in it.
 
2013-04-23 01:51:37 PM  

Jubeebee: Real Women Drink Akvavit: I've heard a lot of things, but they seem to be sticking to "components of fibromyalgia" now, which I think is doctor code for "fark if we know, but it involves a lot of nerve pain". That's what I thought about the "RSD, most likely" theory, too. I'm actually going in for a MRI tomorrow on my neck, as I did break it at one point in my life, along with many other parts of me. Still, you'd think all the other tests would have turned up something and it kind of makes me wonder what the point of stuffing me in that machine yet again just happens to be. Well, besides paying it off, if it's new. That's a lot of money for me, though. I'm considering just canceling it.

If you haven't had an MRI before, it might be worth it. If you've had an MRI on your neck before, maybe not. Lots of nerves in your neck, and MRIs get a lot of detail. I don't know; when I got mine, that was what gave me my diagnosis, so I'm biased for them.


I've had them on my hip, my lumbar spine, my shoulder - well, pretty much everywhere except my neck. They can see things wrong there, but nothing that should be causing the problems I have from time to time (or so they say). That's the biggest problem, too. I never thought the lack of constant pain would be a problem, but it is when it comes to figuring out how to fix something. I can go days, weeks, even months without being bothered one bit. Suddenly, out of nowhere, I'll be in various levels of pain that can change rapidly throughout the day and have severe muscle spasms. This "stage" can last for a few weeks, or, in one particularly bad time period, little over two and half years. When I don't have the problems, I'm just as active as the teenager I still seem to think that I am. When I do have the problems, I feel older than my 90 year old grandmother. I'm having the problems now, just not so severe that I'm nonfunctional. I've even been to the skate park a few times in the past couple months. I'm sorely tempted to avoid ALL doctor anything, but according to friends and family, it's best to go and let them poke and prod me while I'm in good enough condition to actually not get snarly if they don't give me something for pain RIGHT FARKIN NOW.


/still don't wanna go
 
2013-04-23 01:54:38 PM  

Magnanimous_J: nekom: I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.

Well sure, inhaling smoke of any kind isn't healthy. But even discounting all the carcinogens and additives in tobacco that aren't in MJ, the sheer volume of material being smoked is so much less.

Think about how much tobacco is in a cigarette, if you unpack it and loosen it up a bit, it will fill up your palm. Now think about an average "smoker" consuming 10 to 30 times that amount, daily. At that rate, it still takes decades to develop serious health problems.

Given that an MJ smoker would inhale deeper and hold it in longer, I still say a daily MJ smoker who smokes multiple times during the day would have the equivalent to a 2 cigarette a day habit. Hardly the fast lane to an early grave.


THIS!

Show me one person who lights a cig, takes a drag, and snuffs it out for later.
 
2013-04-23 02:03:08 PM  
RockofAges: RockofAges:
The reason you are unable to process this is because of two major flaws in your own perspective, which, I hope, you will politely re-examine.

A) Even for recreational users, cannabis can be extremely therapeutic. There is no discrete and mutually exclusive "recreational" and "medical" spheres for the most part, although I am sure that there are more strictly medical users than there are strictly recreational (not in raw terms, but in terms of occurrence within their own communities). What I mean to say is that most persons you would personally label as "recreational" may (quite likely) have therapeutic reasons for doing so. Hell, having a beer or two can be therapeutic, and alcohol is a poison (where cannabis (THC / CBD, etc) is patently not). Cannabis use relieves pain, anxiety, nausea, insomnia in almost all persons. If you are not a regular user, you will not understand. Most people in this world suffer from some form of illness or stressor; privately or publicly. Cannabis is becoming so popular because now, via word of mouth and a changing culture, people are exp ...


Let's go with that.  Alcohol can reduce stress.  How many folks do you know - and believe - who honestly tell you that they're drinking for medical reasons?  When someone says they "I just need another drink, so I can calm down," or "I would have a harder time facing the day without beer," do you see it as a positive, or a negative thing?  Does it sound like it's a fix?

Do you see what it sounds like when you try to disingenuously try to co-mingle the primary reason someone might partake with unintended secondary effects, even when beneficial?

There ~are~ people out there that have legitimate reoccurring or persistent pain.  They could understandably turn to marijuana to cope with it.  I have done the research, I've seen the studies, and I've read the results - pot does have beneficial, medical potential.  The problem is that there's only one thing that pot excels at;  when smoked, it's great at reducing nausea.  Everything else it does, there exists medicine which is more effective, well regulated, available in consistent dosages, legally available from a number of places, with only two real downsides;
1) It could potentially be more expensive
2) It's not going to get you high

(If you'd like to travel down the side-effects path, we can go there, but frankly for the things that pot is used for, the various medicines have so few side effects that they too are often used for recreational purposes.)

B) There is still a great deal of stigmatization, particularly with regards to those of the boomer generation and older, attached to individuals who choose to partake of cannabis -- particularly within their own generations, and within professional circles, and within America (not so much Canada, but still present). Though you cannot compare it to being gay in kind or in degree -- would a gay friend OWE it to you to disclose their orientation to you, in full, and at length? Your friends usage of cannabis is, strictly speaking, none of your business. When something is none of your business but in fact someone elses, they have complete lease to tell you whatever stories they will surrounding any inquiries into it. This means that even in the very unlikely chance that your associates are intentionally lying to you, there are very good reasons to do so, as well as the fact that it is their basic and private right to do so. It remains a criminal activity for which a million Americans each and every year are arrested by police, whom are in turn increasingly falling into disrepute and an agonistic relationship with the very public they "serve and protect".

Surely you can't think I wouldn't have considered this?  That in discussing illegal acts, a perpetrator may worry about being caught or that others may think poorly of them?  Of course I've considered that.

Of course, none of that smacks of reality.  What I've seen is that - especially in semi-anonymous environments like the internet - people are more than ready to admit to drug usage or other acts they know to be criminal.  Look at several cases in this thread alone.  You don't even have folks invoking SWIM anymore.  In my experience, the folks who openly admit to smoking pot completely unsolicited, especially the type that announce they just waked-n-baked every dang day, still immediately claim the medical virtues as their main point, even while everything else they say or do is proselytizing for recreational use.

I think it's more likely - though stupid - that our culture still associates anything that causes pleasure with guilt, and consciously attempts to devalue things who's primary purpose smacks of hedonism, and these individuals are not secure enough in themselves to realize that.

C) The harm principle applies.

Agree, 110%.  There's no reason pot smoking should be illegal.  I'm not being sarcastic.  It makes no sense whatsoever.  At worst, it should be subject to the same restrictions as liquor, and that's in the worst case.

Now, I actually have what some folks would consider a radical viewpoint on this.  I also think that all other recreational drugs should be legalized.  If someone can handle a cocaine habit, then what's the problem with them managing that in their own time?  If they can't handle it, they'll reap what they sow, so it's a self-correcting situation.  Again, not sarcasm.  Some folks will be able to handle it, some won't, and this goes for every drug out there, since even the best of them can be psychologically addictive.  If you can't keep a job or you lose all your teeth, that's the breaks, but no one but YOU should be allowed to make that choice.

Of course, I'd want government regulation for safety purposes, verify purity and dosage.  May only a slight step above a shady guy in a trench coat telling you he 'guarantees' it's good, but it's something.

Following the harm principle, you also have to consider children, siblings, parents, and spouses in the household, employers and places of business, operation of vehicles in public, and so on.  Penalties should be severe, as showing that you're incapable of not causing other people harm while on a given drug proves that you are incapable of handling it, and so you have discarded your chance at that freedom.  Being intoxicated in public outside of approved venues has a high potential for inadvertent harm as well, so you'd necessarily include that too, especially at a point when judgement is impaired.

Luckily, most of our existing laws already cover these situations, and they already have severe penalties, and social order takes care of the rest - such as being unemployed as a consequence.  So really, very little would have to change.

Thank you for listening.

No problem!
 
2013-04-23 02:06:37 PM  
Yikes. Sorry everyone else for the freakin' long post.
 
2013-04-23 02:14:19 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: . I never thought the lack of constant pain would be a problem, but it is when it comes to figuring out how to fix something. I can go days, weeks, even months without being bothered one bit. Suddenly, out of nowhere, I'll be in various levels of pain that can change rapidly throughout the day and have severe muscle spasms. This "stage" can last for a few weeks, or, in one particularly bad time period, little over two and half years. When I don't have the problems, I'm just as active as the teenager I still seem to think that I am. When I do have the problems, I feel older than my 90 year old grandmother.


That is very similar to how ankylosing spondylitis and some other autoimmune diseases work, both with the periodic flare ups and the focus on the spine/pelvis. Muscle spasms can be a response to inflammation; as it was explained to me, your body tries to "splint" the inflamed area because it perceives the inflammation as damage. Hurts like a motherfarker though.

Have you ever gotten a blood test for HLA-B27?
 
2013-04-23 02:36:39 PM  

Jubeebee: Real Women Drink Akvavit: . I never thought the lack of constant pain would be a problem, but it is when it comes to figuring out how to fix something. I can go days, weeks, even months without being bothered one bit. Suddenly, out of nowhere, I'll be in various levels of pain that can change rapidly throughout the day and have severe muscle spasms. This "stage" can last for a few weeks, or, in one particularly bad time period, little over two and half years. When I don't have the problems, I'm just as active as the teenager I still seem to think that I am. When I do have the problems, I feel older than my 90 year old grandmother.

That is very similar to how ankylosing spondylitis and some other autoimmune diseases work, both with the periodic flare ups and the focus on the spine/pelvis. Muscle spasms can be a response to inflammation; as it was explained to me, your body tries to "splint" the inflamed area because it perceives the inflammation as damage. Hurts like a motherfarker though.

Have you ever gotten a blood test for HLA-B27?


I don't think so, simply because I do lack insurance and have for many, many years. Every test requires me to take out a loan for the big money stuff or to save up for a while, something many doctors just don't seem to understand. I do have to see a doctor in a couple/few hours to pick up some papers so they'll sedate me tomorrow and I won't bite, kick or punch anyone (I'm claustrophobic and a fighter even if I try not to be, so my MRIs are dangerous to those around me), so I guess I could ask the doc to order that test.

Is that test for autoimmune things in general or is it a test for a specific thing? Autoimmune doesn't surprise me when it's mentioned - a few relatives have various issues labeled as such - but I am fighting the very concept simply because, far as I know, it really means "deal with it, cuz we can't fix it". That's very discouraging, not to mention depressing. I hate being sad. :'-(
 
2013-04-23 03:00:09 PM  
And when your problem is "makes pharmaceutical companies richer" your real problem is "doesn't get you high"
 
2013-04-23 03:03:43 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Is that test for autoimmune things in general or is it a test for a specific thing? Autoimmune doesn't surprise me when it's mentioned - a few relatives have various issues labeled as such - but I am fighting the very concept simply because, far as I know, it really means "deal with it, cuz we can't fix it". That's very discouraging, not to mention depressing. I hate being sad. :'-(


It's specifically for spondyloarthropathy, which is basically inflammatory arthritis in various forms. If you got it in the axial skeleton (pelvis, spine, ribs), it's ankylosing spondylitis, and if it's elsewhere it goes by other names.

The good news is that while there isn't a cure, there are some pretty effective ways to manage it. Like I said, my diagnosis changed my LIFE. Knowing what is wrong and how to make it better is much preferable to just ignoring it and trying to get by. I actually felt a flare up coming on yesterday, but I did my anti-inflammatory procedure for the entire evening, and today it's GONE. Not muted. Gone. No pain. So there is hope, even without getting into some of the more extreme medications.

Not having insurance sucks; I've been in that boat for most of my life. A few of very basic questions that I remember being asked during diagnosis:
Does staying in one position (sitting on an airplane, for example) make it worse?
Does ibuprofen work better than tylonal?
Are you usually tired?
And you already said that other people in your family have autoimmune shiat.

Seriously, as far as chronic, genetic defects go, this isn't the worst. If you have it, it sucks, but if you get treatment it's not the end of the world.
 
2013-04-23 03:06:22 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: The stench is what gets to me. It hurts my eyes and makes me cough, and that's just second-hand. I won't be trying it first-hand when it has that effect on me from a distance.
There are probably people like me out there, but with medical conditions that benefit from marijuana. This can only be good for them.


A smell makes your eyes hurt? Drama queen much?
 
2013-04-23 03:43:36 PM  

Jubeebee: Seriously, as far as chronic, genetic defects go, this isn't the worst. If you have it, it sucks, but if you get treatment it's not the end of the world.


Well, I'm already going to ask for a couple other things when I go to the doc's in a bit, may as well ask for the blood test, too. The friend who's paying for the MRI won't even blink about adding in some blood work. Not only does she know it will be paid back, but she wants me to get the best care I can. She misses having her travel and hell raising buddy.

Thanks for the encouragement, btw. The negativity in the form of "you're screwed" from others is sometimes even worse than the "nobody knows what's wrong, so you're wrong, there's nothing wrong" thing from too many doctors.
 
2013-04-23 03:48:16 PM  

lennavan: give me doughnuts: That's what we're talking about.

No it isn't.

give me doughnuts: This is just a step on the road to granting some pharmaceutical company a patent on a plant that has been used in it's current form for the past 6,000 years as a medicine.

No it isn't.  If you smoked pot instead of crack, you never would have hallucinated this sentence.


I don't even smoke weed. All it does is make me fall asleep.
 
2013-04-23 03:51:12 PM  
I'm all for THC pills, even THC pills with the extra stuff from the plant in them.
There's absolutely no reason why we should ever have to smell someone's medication.
With the pills people can just take them when they need them and won't be time inconvenienced by needing to finding a place to toke their dose.

ReverendJynxed:  I'm actually snot-flying-out-the-nose allergic to weed smoke (and hemp and a few others like pigweed), more than half of pot users are as well but are just too damned stoned to NOTICE its farking up their respiratory health.
xkillyourfacex: Half the "high" people feel is from holding their breath too long on the monoxide and dioxide in the smoke and the primary allergic reaction.  Weed just does NOT hit that fast;  It isn't cocaine.
quietwalker: I agree completely, we should ban tobacco and alcohol too, they've never been proven to cure anything and you can only benefit from their chronic use IF you're already addicted to them.
 
2013-04-23 03:58:26 PM  
Brilliant idea: Outlaw coffee and tea! For health and morality reasons!

Then allow the pharmaceutical companies to make pills that are the rendered down effective agents!

Millions I tells ya!



c1.soap.com
Gee I wonder why no one has introduced a pill like that yet
 
2013-04-23 04:08:10 PM  

Mr. Right: If the proponents of medical marijuana (one of which I happen to be) are serious about using it for pain management, they will welcome this study, as smoking anything presents a risk to the lungs and other respiratory organs that tablets will avoid.

However, if governments and drug companies are serious about pain relief and not just controlling marijuana, they will acknowledge that some users, suffering from nausea, for example, will find a pill unacceptable and still need to smoke it.

We'll know the true motives of both sides by how this debate shapes up as research progresses.



It isn't legal to sell pot brownies either, or to vaporize the raw drug, and neither presents the dangers of smoking.

If the true motives of prohibitionists weren't already obvious to you, you're probably dead or in a persistent vegetative state.
 
2013-04-23 04:19:07 PM  

fireclown: No, subby.  This story isn't "big pharma gets richer", it is "medical marijuana advocates don't want medicine so much as they want to get high".


Well, since I bothered to read the article, the actual story is, the pill form lasts longer than smoking, but takes longer to kick in than smoking.  EXACTLY the same as differences as eating a pot brownie.  Hmmm.
 
2013-04-23 04:23:02 PM  

lennavan: give me doughnuts: lennavan: I have a mini blood orange tree in my basement. I haven't figured out how to pollinate it yet though, dammit.

Either set it outside when it blooms, or use a small paintbrush or Q-Tip to transfer pollen between the blooms.

Yeah I tried those, I guess I didn't really have the patience for the Q-Tip thing.  You have to do it for like a dozen or more different flowers every day.  I'm just waiting for the weather to warm up and I'll put it back outside.



I'm not really familiar with the mini or dwarf fruit trees. My brain keeps picturing a bonsai orange tree that a former boss of mine had. he's do the Q-tip thing on a half-dozen blooms, and pluck the rest off. He's usually end up with one or two huge oranges on this tiny little tree. Surreal.
 
2013-04-23 04:36:33 PM  
Counter: If they are hvaing (sic) trouble keeping food down, how the fark is a pill going to help? They're going to throw that up too!
Shhhhh, hush now with that logic.
 
2013-04-23 04:48:40 PM  
See, this is what happens when you have a study of only 30 people and you include habitual smokers in the group.

FTFA: "A pill form of marijuana may work just as well to relieve pain as the smoked form, but with fewer side effects, new research suggests."

While I agree that it's desirable to have a way to give people the benefit of cannabis without the potential lung damage, most of what I've read says that the majority of medical marijuana users ingest it rather than smoke it and that the effect lasts longer from ingesting it, so there's a problem already solved. Considering how every pill in existence has a list of potential side effects as long as my leg, if I were prescribed cannabis I'd rather have it in brownie form than pill form, thanx very much.
 
2013-04-23 04:52:24 PM  

prjindigo: I'm all for THC pills, even THC pills with the extra stuff from the plant in them.
There's absolutely no reason why we should ever have to smell someone's medication.
With the pills people can just take them when they need them and won't be time inconvenienced by needing to finding a place to toke their dose.

ReverendJynxed:  I'm actually snot-flying-out-the-nose allergic to weed smoke (and hemp and a few others like pigweed), more than half of pot users are as well but are just too damned stoned to NOTICE its farking up their respiratory health.
xkillyourfacex: Half the "high" people feel is from holding their breath too long on the monoxide and dioxide in the smoke and the primary allergic reaction.  Weed just does NOT hit that fast;  It isn't cocaine.
quietwalker: I agree completely, we should ban tobacco and alcohol too, they've never been proven to cure anything and you can only benefit from their chronic use IF you're already addicted to them.


There is so much stupid with this post I don't even know where to start.

But lets start anyway with your citations for "more than half of pot users are allergic to pot" claim. Provide that and we'll go on from there.
 
2013-04-23 05:00:57 PM  

jso2897: ZAZ: That's the risk of pretending medical marijuana is about medical marijuana. Somebody might take you at your word and produce medical marijuana.

Whatever it takes to get asshole busybodies to mind their own business, and shut the f**k up.


Hazza!
 
2013-04-23 05:03:23 PM  
You lying guys and your 'medical' marijuana.  If you would man up and admit to me that I am the morally superior person because I do not need to get high, I would stop being so infuriated with you.
 
2013-04-23 05:10:14 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: You don't have to smoke it to feel the effects....

I present to you


Now that's a safe alternative.


I ate two to three a day when I
Ruptured my L3 L4 because ironically
I told my Dr I use marijuana he then refused to perscibe me opium-its.
If you know this pain, you know what it's
Like to not want to go on living.
-Marijuana Safed My Life-
Plus I like smoking a little at night to calm down.
Or do a little gardening on the weekends.
 
2013-04-23 05:19:56 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Thanks for the encouragement, btw. The negativity in the form of "you're screwed" from others is sometimes even worse than the "nobody knows what's wrong, so you're wrong, there's nothing wrong" thing from too many doctors.


Glad to help. If you feel like this, for this long, it's not in your head. I've been through that same charade; it's worth it to stay persistent and figure out what's wrong. Life is much easier on this side.
 
2013-04-23 05:23:39 PM  
99% of medicines come from plants.

Pharma industries turn these into pills to hide the source of the medicine, and therby profit.

/ turn them into pinatas, or they'll never stop
 
2013-04-23 07:11:23 PM  
tract THC from marijuana, all you need to do is soak the plant in warm ethyl ether, then evaporate off the distillate and collect it for re--use with a heat exchanger.

That yields pure red hemp oil, and it is not likely that the cost of production would exceed $0.01/dose.
 
2013-04-23 08:18:05 PM  
The advancing legalizing and decriminalization of cannabis has got the pharmaceutical companies scrambling to get a product to market.

Good luck with that.  Nature has got quite a head start.
 
2013-04-23 09:15:33 PM  
Isn't this why we have a Food and Drug Agency?
 
2013-04-23 10:18:20 PM  
Growing vegetables for food is a little different than growing things as a drug to treat disease. I prefer to have an expected potency if I needed a pharmaceutical intervention to treat a potential disorder, something that would be impossible if you are growing stuff  on your own.

/but smoke 'em if you have 'em
 
2013-04-23 11:43:41 PM  

McDougal: Growing vegetables for food is a little different than growing things as a drug to treat disease. I prefer to have an expected potency if I needed a pharmaceutical intervention to treat a potential disorder, something that would be impossible if you are growing stuff  on your own.

/but smoke 'em if you have 'em


That's the beauty of using a vaporizer. You get exactly as much medicine as you need.  If the potency is a little off, no big deal, just vape more or less.  Plus you don't have to worry about puking half of the dose up like you do with pills/edibles.

Think of it like a handihaler.
 
Ral
2013-04-24 01:22:25 AM  

hermitage_deux: 99% of medicines come from plants.

Pharma industries turn these into pills to hide the source of the medicine, and therby profit.


Actually they do it in order to concentrate the dose so you can get results without having to eat 50 lbs. of something.  And so you can remove the stuff you don't need to ingest and get only the substance that treats your condition.
 
2013-04-24 03:05:01 AM  
I'm one of those rare birds where smoking pot makes me have extreme anxiety--of the kind where I lay in bed feeling like I am stuck in a nightmare, wishing to not be high anymore.  

I found out if a drink first, or use a holistic anti-anxiety pill, that goes away, but it mutes the high and just makes me sleepy.

Perhaps I am allergic or perhaps there is a specific type that would feel great.  

I was only ever to get high once before it turned on me.  It was amazing.  I felt happy and the world seemed so bright and surreal.
 
2013-04-24 04:45:18 AM  

adamatari: They can try to sell it all day, but legal weed will obliterate their business.


Not so sure about that.

I mean I've met the people around me who grow and sell weed.  Not the world's biggest winners.  Generally speaking they're dimwits with issues at their most harmless, and violent criminals at the most harmful.  If I needed weed for medical purposes I sure wouldn't entrust my health to that bunch of munters and sociopaths.

The majority of the profit margin in weed is its illegality.  If weed goes legal I don't see a bunch of respectable small businessmen setting up shop - they'd be lucky to scrape a profit.  If they survived the menaces of the established gangs whose trade they would be stepping on (go on, you call the cops on Black Power or the Mongrel Mob, see how that works out for you).

And if weed goes commercial I'm not going to trust the equivalent of the guys who make mainstream pisswater beer either.  Can you imagine the strength and quality of the weed the corporations would be selling?

When medical marijuana goes mainstream then there will absolutely certainly be a market for marijuana in whatever form that has a reliable, consistent, known strength/effect.  When you're suffering from chronic intractable pain you don't really just want to buy a tinny from the guy across the road and hope that it'll be okay.
 
2013-04-24 05:41:57 AM  

if_i_really_have_to: adamatari: They can try to sell it all day, but legal weed will obliterate their business.

Not so sure about that.

I mean I've met the people around me who grow and sell weed.  Not the world's biggest winners.  Generally speaking they're dimwits with issues at their most harmless, and violent criminals at the most harmful.  If I needed weed for medical purposes I sure wouldn't entrust my health to that bunch of munters and sociopaths.

The majority of the profit margin in weed is its illegality.  If weed goes legal I don't see a bunch of respectable small businessmen setting up shop - they'd be lucky to scrape a profit.  If they survived the menaces of the established gangs whose trade they would be stepping on (go on, you call the cops on Black Power or the Mongrel Mob, see how that works out for you).

And if weed goes commercial I'm not going to trust the equivalent of the guys who make mainstream pisswater beer either.  Can you imagine the strength and quality of the weed the corporations would be selling?

When medical marijuana goes mainstream then there will absolutely certainly be a market for marijuana in whatever form that has a reliable, consistent, known strength/effect.  When you're suffering from chronic intractable pain you don't really just want to buy a tinny from the guy across the road and hope that it'll be okay.


With legal cannabis you will no longer exclusively see "dimwits" growing pot.  Nor will profit be the primary motivation for recreational growers.  I think the hypothetical "models" you describe are flawed.

If it were legal for me, I would grow cannabis.  And in only a few generations of plants I'd be very successful with quantity and quality (and this would be fairly typical).
 
2013-04-24 05:41:58 AM  
"I'm allergic to pot" = "I didn't understand what was happening to my body, and I didn't like, so in order to avoid talking about that, I just say I'm allergic"

Having anxiety while on pot does not = allergy
 
2013-04-24 09:19:03 AM  

nekom: Not that I disagree with the point about corporate profits, but wouldn't a pill containing the same chemical that helps certain conditions (be that THC, CBD or whathaveyou) be a safer alternative?  I mean, let's not live in fantasy land here, smoking anything IS unhealthy.



Are you not aware that insulting the opposition is very likely to breed mistrust and contempt you degenerate malcontent?
 
2013-04-24 02:15:50 PM  

give me doughnuts: lennavan: give me doughnuts: lennavan: I have a mini blood orange tree in my basement. I haven't figured out how to pollinate it yet though, dammit.

Either set it outside when it blooms, or use a small paintbrush or Q-Tip to transfer pollen between the blooms.

Yeah I tried those, I guess I didn't really have the patience for the Q-Tip thing.  You have to do it for like a dozen or more different flowers every day.  I'm just waiting for the weather to warm up and I'll put it back outside.


I'm not really familiar with the mini or dwarf fruit trees. My brain keeps picturing a bonsai orange tree that a former boss of mine had. he's do the Q-tip thing on a half-dozen blooms, and pluck the rest off. He's usually end up with one or two huge oranges on this tiny little tree. Surreal.


If Charlie Brown is approximately 5 feet tall, imagine his Christmas Tree.  That's about what it looks like.  And I'm worried an orange growing on it will do pretty much the same thing as an ornament did to his tree.

pinstripepulpit.com
 
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