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(The New York Times)   King Bloomberg hates soldiers fighting for his freedom, bans them from buying cigarettes   (nytimes.com) divider line 120
    More: Fail, city plan, freedoms, Michael Bloomberg, cigarettes, youth smoking, soldiers, tobacco  
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8393 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2013 at 7:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-23 08:19:48 AM

miss diminutive: Minimum age required to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton combustion engine machine capable of speeds over 100mp/h? 16.

Minimum age required to cast a ballot in the democratic system which decides the future political landscape of your country? 18.

Minimum age required to join the armed forces and be sent to fight (and potentially die) on foreign soil? 18.

Minimum age required to legally purchase a single drink of alcohol (and potentially, a tobacco delivery mechanism)? 21.

Sure, that seems legit.


hinten: Minimum age to be convicted and sentenced to death as an adult for murder? 14. 16


Land of the free, and you are surprised why?



and I think we're pretty much done here

/oh yeah, fark Bloomberg
 
2013-04-23 08:21:59 AM
I am just itching to get the hell out of this city. I'm moving back out west. I was in the Corps, and if he takes away our being able to buy bloody cigarettes, then he needs to stop "speaking" Spanish at his news conferences. Just a rich douche trying to tell everyone else they live wrong.

Am I miffed? Nahhh.
/really
//really really
 
2013-04-23 08:22:18 AM
Cigarettes are legal only because they've been grandfathered in because of their age and the power of Big Tobacco. They are genuinely horrible - an engineered super addictive product that's a public health menace with essentially no benefit whatsoever.
 
2013-04-23 08:22:33 AM

Alonjar: miss diminutive: Minimum age required to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton combustion engine machine capable of speeds over 100mp/h? 16.
Minimum age required to cast a ballot in the democratic system which decides the future political landscape of your country? 18.
Minimum age required to join the armed forces and be sent to fight (and potentially die) on foreign soil? 18.
Minimum age required to legally purchase a single drink of alcohol (and potentially, a tobacco delivery mechanism)? 21.
Sure, that seems legit.

miss diminutive: Also, minimum age to legally purchase a rifle: 18.

So you're proposing that we introduce them to alcohol binges at the same time we give them rifles and voting powers? Interesting.




Why not?
If you're old enough to have a politician tell you who's worth killing, you're old enough to make your own decisions about whether violence is required or not.

/and if you aren't then you shouldn't be allowed to vote, drink, drive or join the military on the grounds that you just aren't old enough to make any responsible decisions.
/the real measure should be maturity, but its difficult to gauge that.
 
2013-04-23 08:23:56 AM

miss diminutive: Minimum age required to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton combustion engine machine capable of speeds over 100mp/h? 16.

Minimum age required to cast a ballot in the democratic system which decides the future political landscape of your country? 18.

Minimum age required to join the armed forces and be sent to fight (and potentially die) on foreign soil? 18.

Minimum age required to legally purchase a single drink of alcohol (and potentially, a tobacco delivery mechanism)? 21.

Sure, that seems legit.



Minimum age required to sign a legal contract? 18

Minimum age required to get married? 18
 
2013-04-23 08:24:25 AM

vudukungfu: Up here in the green mountains of Vermont, we know what NYC is.
It is the place that imports our heroin.


Chances are good your heroin comes into New England via fishing boats in New Bedford and Gloucester...
 
2013-04-23 08:24:35 AM

hardinparamedic: Call me when they start paying more into social security and medicare taxes.


As Egoy3k pointed out, there's a good chance that smokers are drawing less from SS and medicate than non-smokers due to dying earlier.
 
2013-04-23 08:25:18 AM

Alonjar: miss diminutive: Minimum age required to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton combustion engine machine capable of speeds over 100mp/h? 16.
Minimum age required to cast a ballot in the democratic system which decides the future political landscape of your country? 18.
Minimum age required to join the armed forces and be sent to fight (and potentially die) on foreign soil? 18.
Minimum age required to legally purchase a single drink of alcohol (and potentially, a tobacco delivery mechanism)? 21.
Sure, that seems legit.

miss diminutive: Also, minimum age to legally purchase a rifle: 18.

So you're proposing that we introduce them to alcohol binges at the same time we give them rifles and voting powers? Interesting.


WAAAAAAYYY back in the day, politicians used to hand out free booze to guarantee an election win, which subsequently is why a lot of states enacted various types of bans on the sale and consumption of alcohol on election days.
 
2013-04-23 08:25:28 AM

way south: If you're old enough to have a politician tell you who's worth killing, you're old enough to make your own decisions about whether violence is required or not.


I think thats the point though... alcohol impairs decision making ability, does it not?
 
2013-04-23 08:26:19 AM

TofuTheAlmighty: Cigarettes are legal only because they've been grandfathered in because of their age and the power of Big Tobacco generate billions in sweet, sweet tax revenues.


FTFY.
 
2013-04-23 08:27:13 AM

miss diminutive: Minimum age required to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton combustion engine machine capable of speeds over 100mp/h? 16.


It was 15 in Alabama when I was learning to drive.  That was a few years back though. Actually more than a few.  Damn I'm old.
 
2013-04-23 08:27:55 AM
Why the hell do New Yorkers keep voting for this a-hole?
 
2013-04-23 08:28:00 AM

TofuTheAlmighty: Cigarettes are legal only because they've been grandfathered in because of their age and the power of Big Tobacco. They are genuinely horrible - an engineered super addictive product that's a public health menace with essentially no benefit whatsoever.


I agree, and I'm not arguing against you...but...

Same could be said for all kinds of "foods" that we consume...shait, you may as well lump alcohol into the mix too.  I guess my question is where do you draw the line on "what the body needs vs. indulgent with no real benefit?"
 
2013-04-23 08:29:29 AM

TofuTheAlmighty: Cigarettes are legal only because they've been grandfathered in because of their age and the power of Big Tobacco. They are genuinely horrible - an engineered super addictive product that's a public health menace with essentially no benefit whatsoever.


Just like skate boarding.
 
2013-04-23 08:30:41 AM

Endive Wombat: Same could be said for all kinds of "foods" that we consume...shait, you may as well lump alcohol into the mix too. I guess my question is where do you draw the line on "what the body needs vs. indulgent with no real benefit?"


Just wait until he finds out about what MSG in foods like Doritos and Chinese buffets does.
 
2013-04-23 08:30:56 AM

Endive Wombat: WAAAAAAYYY back in the day, politicians used to hand out free booze to guarantee an election win, which subsequently is why a lot of states enacted various types of bans on the sale and consumption of alcohol on election days.


I believe they called it "swilling the mob." Election days were like big parties.

GoldSpider: TofuTheAlmighty: Cigarettes are legal only because they've been grandfathered in because of their age and the power of Big Tobacco generate billions in sweet, sweet tax revenues.

FTFY.


Flaw in your thesis: marijuana and other low harm taxable drugs are illegal. So something else is at work besides revenue need.
 
2013-04-23 08:32:18 AM
Ug. Sorry for crappy formatting above. I accidentally combined two posts into one. It's 7:30 am.
 
2013-04-23 08:32:42 AM

Endive Wombat: Alonjar: miss diminutive: Minimum age required to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton combustion engine machine capable of speeds over 100mp/h? 16.
Minimum age required to cast a ballot in the democratic system which decides the future political landscape of your country? 18.
Minimum age required to join the armed forces and be sent to fight (and potentially die) on foreign soil? 18.
Minimum age required to legally purchase a single drink of alcohol (and potentially, a tobacco delivery mechanism)? 21.
Sure, that seems legit.

miss diminutive: Also, minimum age to legally purchase a rifle: 18.

So you're proposing that we introduce them to alcohol binges at the same time we give them rifles and voting powers? Interesting.

WAAAAAAYYY back in the day, politicians used to hand out free booze to guarantee an election win, which subsequently is why a lot of states enacted various types of bans on the sale and consumption of alcohol on election days.


She is proposing that they are free adult American citizens and should be treated as such.  Same argument for gay marriage.
 
2013-04-23 08:35:18 AM

bugontherug: Flaw in your thesis: marijuana and other low harm taxable drugs are illegal. So something else is at work besides revenue need.


Not exactly... marijuana is considered a mind altering substance.  Any time you read the actual legal jargon these things are always refered to as mind altering substances.

The argument is that marijuana changes the way you think and make decisions... and thats bad.  Even if you say "Well ive tried it and i dont see the problem", you're considered tainted... you've been inflicted with the drugs.  So your decision making about it being harmless is flawed, because you yourself were harmed by it.  Get it?
 
2013-04-23 08:37:42 AM
Like was mentioned above. It's not Bloomberg, this time. It's that farking Quinn , wanna be mayor, chick. F*ck these people. F*ck those that think our individual freedoms have a price by biatching about "OMFG you cost more to keep healthy!!!" wargarbbl. I pay my premiums so F*ck YOU and the horse you rode in on.
 
2013-04-23 08:37:43 AM

hinten: chrylis: hinten: Minimum age to be convicted and sentenced to death as an adult for murder? 14.


Land of the free, and you are surprised why?

18, but nice try.

I'm not trying, you are.

Youngest age to be convicted for murder is 11 in the US.

The youngest person to be executed in the 20th century was George Stinney, electrocuted in South Carolina at the age of 14, June 16, 1944. The last execution of a juvenile may have been Leonard Shockley, who died in the Maryland gas chamber April 10, 1959, at the age of 17.

Study it out.


Its 18 as of 2005 and as you noted has been for 55 years

/study it out
 
2013-04-23 08:43:40 AM
Voters and smokers are all terrible people.

/that should cover it
 
2013-04-23 08:48:20 AM

Alonjar: miss diminutive: Minimum age required to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton combustion engine machine capable of speeds over 100mp/h? 16.
Minimum age required to cast a ballot in the democratic system which decides the future political landscape of your country? 18.
Minimum age required to join the armed forces and be sent to fight (and potentially die) on foreign soil? 18.
Minimum age required to legally purchase a single drink of alcohol (and potentially, a tobacco delivery mechanism)? 21.
Sure, that seems legit.

miss diminutive: Also, minimum age to legally purchase a rifle: 18.

So you're proposing that we introduce them to alcohol binges at the same time we give them rifles and voting powers? Interesting.


No. I'm trying to point out the inconsistencies and arbitrary nature behind some of these age limits. If the logic behind denial of alcohol before the age of 21 is based on some perceived lack of reasoning or higher judgement associated with adulthood, then why grant people below that cut-off access to guns, vehicles, voting and military service?

The fact that you can be potentially killed in the line of duty but can't go to a bar and order a drink strikes me as ludicrous.
 
2013-04-23 08:48:50 AM

Cheron: hinten: chrylis: hinten: Minimum age to be convicted and sentenced to death as an adult for murder? 14.


Land of the free, and you are surprised why?

18, but nice try.

I'm not trying, you are.

Youngest age to be convicted for murder is 11 in the US.

The youngest person to be executed in the 20th century was George Stinney, electrocuted in South Carolina at the age of 14, June 16, 1944. The last execution of a juvenile may have been Leonard Shockley, who died in the Maryland gas chamber April 10, 1959, at the age of 17.

Study it out.

Its 18 as of 2005 and as you noted has been for 55 years

/study it out


Ah, I remember now, the day when the US took a tiny step towards joining civilized countries.
 
2013-04-23 08:52:50 AM
Lord Bloomberg's scorn for the military is well documented.

Back during Sandy, he made it clear he didn't want the NY National Guard deployed to NYC for disaster relief.  He wasn't saying that NYC didn't need disaster relief, but he thought that only the NYPD should ever be on the streets keeping order and helping, even in an emergency.

A local mayor, not even the mayor of NYC, can legally keep the NG out if the Governor sends them in, but Bloomberg made such a stink about it that the NYNG's role in Sandy relief there was minimized.

Basically he doesn't like the military because they are not accountable to him.  He wants power, and the military is power he can't control, unlike the NYPD.
 
2013-04-23 09:01:44 AM

miss diminutive: Minimum age required to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton combustion engine machine capable of speeds over 100mp/h? 16.
Minimum age required to cast a ballot in the democratic system which decides the future political landscape of your country? 18.
Minimum age required to join the armed forces and be sent to fight (and potentially die) on foreign soil? 18.
Minimum age required to legally purchase a single drink of alcohol (and potentially, a tobacco delivery mechanism)? 21.
Sure, that seems legit.


All true.  As true as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

On the other hand, if you begin smoking at 18 then clearly you need someone to look after your best interests because you certainly aren't capable of doing it.  Besides, you'll likely not be able to afford a new lung or any other cancer afflicted body part.  And while carving people up and then reassembling them is certainly less expensive I'd rather not pay for any of it thankyouverymuch.
My suggestion is that individuals that would like to begin smoking at age 18 move to another state and begin the slow decline into death there.  A light hearted suggestion to start your tuesday morning.

doczoidberg: Why the hell do New Yorkers keep voting for this a-hole?


Because in the end, he has the better general welfare of the citizenry in mind.  I know, hard to believe isn't it?  He's a conservative and I'mmmm not.  Still and all, good is irrefutable from any corner.  Are you aware he's donated millions to public health and has a building with his name on it at NYU?  So yeah, he has an interest.

keylock71: vudukungfu: Up here in the green mountains of Vermont, we know what NYC is.
It is the place that imports our heroin.
Chances are good your heroin comes into New England via fishing boats in New Bedford and Gloucester...

Did you know that you can row out and pull lobster pots in the middle of the day and nobody says a thing about it?  Don't pull the wrong pot though, you can't afford THAT lobster.  Just put that South American Lobster right back where you found him.  Ever troll for Mexican Lobster in Lake Champlain?
 
2013-04-23 09:02:06 AM

miss diminutive: No. I'm trying to point out the inconsistencies and arbitrary nature behind some of these age limits. If the logic behind denial of alcohol before the age of 21 is based on some perceived lack of reasoning or higher judgement associated with adulthood, then why grant people below that cut-off access to guns, vehicles, voting and military service?


Because MADD needs ever-tougher alcohol laws to justify its own existence.

Because they achieved their own goals with regards to tougher DUI laws within the first few years of their existence and then had to keep lobbying for ever stricter anti-alcohol laws to the point that their own founder quit in the mid-80's and now openly speaks out against them saying they are nothing but neo-prohibitionists.  One of the first crusades they went on after their initial stricter-DUI laws was passed was to raise the drinking age.

The logic was twofold, that neuroscience says that the brain wasn't completely done developing until the early 20's so drinking alcohol would stunt brain growth, and that by banning it you would completely eliminate drinking in people 20 and under forever.

<sarcasm mode>As we can see, by raising the drinking age to 21 nationwide, nobody ever drinks a drop of alcohol before their 21st birthday, preserving all those precious teenage brain cells.</sarcasm mode>

We couldn't easily change the voting age, that is enshrined in a Constitutional Amendment.  Changing the military age would seriously fark with military readiness.  Changing the age for drivers licenses would mess with all kinds of other effects (youth workforce, ect).  The easiest thing to change was drinking age, and since this was spearheaded by an anti-alcohol organization, it's all they cared about anyway.
 
2013-04-23 09:02:24 AM
he truly is the mayor new yorkers deserve.  that man has a serious control complex.
 
2013-04-23 09:06:35 AM

Alonjar: way south: If you're old enough to have a politician tell you who's worth killing, you're old enough to make your own decisions about whether violence is required or not.

I think thats the point though... alcohol impairs decision making ability, does it not?


Yes, but only after you've ingested it.
The choice to drink alcohol legally is a decision an adult is allowed. Binging is an abuse of alcohol the same way randomly firing a gun in the air is an abuse of firearms ownership. Letting yourself be lured into fighting for the military by the promise of honor, money, and adventure, is an abuse of your legal ability to enter a contract.

If you aren't "old enough" to do one then it stands to reason you aren't old enough to do any of these things.   If we are keeping you away from alcohol for fear that you're going to abuse it while doing other things, why allow it at all after you've let someone buy guns and cars or even join the military?
 
2013-04-23 09:08:19 AM
FARK Bloomberg! Fark the trolls!

Here's what I see as the real problem.
It's illegal for a kid (or anyone) to walk down the street (at least in NY) smoking pot.
Say a couple kids are walking down the street smoking a joint and a cop passes by.
They hide the joint. Tuck it, cup it, ditch it, whatever.  Because it's illegal.

Same two kids walking down the street smoking a cigarette.
Cop passes by and what do they do?  Nothing.  They keep smoking.
Why?  Because it isn't illegal.

It's illegal to sell it to them, it's illegal for them to buy it. End of list.
They can have it.  They can use it.  Doesn't matter how they got it at that point.
Just like when I was a kid.  You snitch them from their parents or wherever.
But once they have them they can smoke them completely legally.

That's the problem with this state.  Too much nannying, not enough addressing the real problem.

Not that that would stop anyone from smoking prior to 21 or 18 or whatever age though.
 
2013-04-23 09:12:33 AM
Prohibition works so well. Just look at its historical success...
 
2013-04-23 09:12:44 AM
10 F*cking dollars for a pack of cigarettes.

You know, this is only a problem if you're an idiot who smokes in the first place.
 
2013-04-23 09:17:14 AM
This is the future of government
 
2013-04-23 09:18:44 AM
I have billions so I know everything and you should do what I say because money.  Put my money in your mouth.  Taste.  mmmmmm.
 
2013-04-23 09:19:38 AM

bugontherug: Endive Wombat: WAAAAAAYYY back in the day, politicians used to hand out free booze to guarantee an election win, which subsequently is why a lot of states enacted various types of bans on the sale and consumption of alcohol on election days.

I believe they called it "swilling the mob." Election days were like big parties. GoldSpider: TofuTheAlmighty: Cigarettes are legal only because they've been grandfathered in because of their age and the power of Big Tobacco generate billions in sweet, sweet tax revenues.

FTFY.

Flaw in your thesis: marijuana and other low harm taxable drugs are illegal. So something else is at work besides revenue need.


No, it's taxes.  The cost and knowhow to produce your own smokable tobacco and drinkable alcohol is too high and too difficult for the average person, whereas growing your own weed is significantly easier.  If you can grow tomatoes, you can grow weed...it won't be the most amazing stuff in the world, but it will still do its job.  So th Feds see it as lost tax revenue... even though very few people will actually take the time to tend to their crop.
 
2013-04-23 09:19:48 AM
So, smoke pot?
 
2013-04-23 09:23:37 AM

hardinparamedic: BOO! How dare he attack PERSONAL FREEDOMS!* WHARGARBL BIG GOVERNMENT!

*The cost of treating the consequences of CV Disease, Stroke, and COPD is approximately 400 BILLION a year, conservatively, to society at large.


Not a free market lover then, eh?
 
2013-04-23 09:25:02 AM

Alonjar: bugontherug: Flaw in your thesis: marijuana and other low harm taxable drugs are illegal. So something else is at work besides revenue need.

Not exactly... marijuana is considered a mind altering substance.  Any time you read the actual legal jargon these things are always refered to as mind altering substances.

The argument is that marijuana changes the way you think and make decisions... and thats bad.  Even if you say "Well ive tried it and i dont see the problem", you're considered tainted... you've been inflicted with the drugs.  So your decision making about it being harmless is flawed, because you yourself were harmed by it.  Get it?


uphillwriting.org
 
2013-04-23 09:30:09 AM

id10ts: FARK Bloomberg! Fark the trolls!


Worst.  Haiku.  Ever.
 
2013-04-23 09:45:52 AM

Oliver Twisted: hardinparamedic: BOO! How dare he attack PERSONAL FREEDOMS!* WHARGARBL BIG GOVERNMENT!

*The cost of treating the consequences of CV Disease, Stroke, and COPD is approximately 400 BILLION a year, conservatively, to society at large.

And what dollar value do you put on your personal freedom?


That's the funny thing about a society when you choose to live in it. There comes a point when the costs of certain personal freedoms on society become too much to bear for that society, either in economic or human costs.

At this point, it's not about personal freedom. It's about farking over everyone else for the sake of doing what you want regardless of the consequences. One of the reasons that European and certain Asian societies are able to pull of socialized medicine very well is that, in general, they tend to be healthier on average.

Case in point, tobacco related illnesses and their sequelae.

Quite frankly, I have NO Problem with you exercising your right to kill yourself in the manner of your choosing - Chain smoking, riding a motorcycle without a helmet, not wearing your seatbelt, et cetera. But, there is a caveat to that. You sign away any right you have to the societal compromise that says "Hey, we have this safety net here for accidents". So, no Medicare, No Medicaid, no Government funded treatment, etc.
 
2013-04-23 09:52:48 AM
Remember, in Bloomietown, you can't have a cig at a dive bar, but a big fat cigar at a bar that sells $60 glasses of whiskey is just fine. Can't piss off his CEO buddies, now can we.
 
2013-04-23 09:59:18 AM

Alonjar: miss diminutive: Minimum age required to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton combustion engine machine capable of speeds over 100mp/h? 16.
Minimum age required to cast a ballot in the democratic system which decides the future political landscape of your country? 18.
Minimum age required to join the armed forces and be sent to fight (and potentially die) on foreign soil? 18.
Minimum age required to legally purchase a single drink of alcohol (and potentially, a tobacco delivery mechanism)? 21.
Sure, that seems legit.

miss diminutive: Also, minimum age to legally purchase a rifle: 18.

So you're proposing that we introduce them to alcohol binges at the same time we give them rifles and voting powers? Interesting.


Yes.  They should have the right to drink if they choose.  Also, no one is giving out rifles that I'm aware.

I'd also add that they should have their right to purchase handguns at licensed dealers restored as well.
 
2013-04-23 10:01:56 AM

Alonjar: way south: If you're old enough to have a politician tell you who's worth killing, you're old enough to make your own decisions about whether violence is required or not.

I think thats the point though... alcohol impairs decision making ability, does it not?


So, then no one over 21 can be trusted to make any decisions since they can all access alcohol.
 
2013-04-23 10:02:52 AM

Cheron: hinten: chrylis: hinten: Minimum age to be convicted and sentenced to death as an adult for murder? 14.


Land of the free, and you are surprised why?

18, but nice try.

I'm not trying, you are.

Youngest age to be convicted for murder is 11 in the US.

The youngest person to be executed in the 20th century was George Stinney, electrocuted in South Carolina at the age of 14, June 16, 1944. The last execution of a juvenile may have been Leonard Shockley, who died in the Maryland gas chamber April 10, 1959, at the age of 17.

Study it out.

Its 18 as of 2005 and as you noted has been for 55 years

/study it out


It was 16 prior to 2005 for 16 or so states and 17 for an additional 6.
 
2013-04-23 10:03:47 AM
Recon we could get the Quinn lady drunk enough to give us all a beej? And if so, should she wear a mask?
 
2013-04-23 11:01:48 AM

Marcintosh: keylock71: vudukungfu: Up here in the green mountains of Vermont, we know what NYC is.
It is the place that imports our heroin.
Chances are good your heroin comes into New England via fishing boats in New Bedford and Gloucester...
Did you know that you can row out and pull lobster pots in the middle of the day and nobody says a thing about it?  Don't pull the wrong pot though, you can't afford THAT lobster.  Just put that South American Lobster right back where you found him.  Ever troll for Mexican Lobster in Lake Champlain?


Lol... I grew up around commercial fishermen. I learned from a very early age, you do not mess with someone else's lobster pots... Whether they're filled with lobsters or drugs.

In college, I used to drink at this fisherman's bar in New Bedford called the First Base Cafe. It was affectionately known as the "Free base Cafe". The one and only time I've ever seen someone stabbed was in there after one fisherman accused another of stealing lobsters out of his pots.
 
Nib
2013-04-23 11:17:19 AM
I really hope someone assassinates his ass
 
2013-04-23 11:19:54 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Recon we could get the Quinn lady drunk enough to give us all a beej? And if so, should she wear a mask?


Just because alcohol might make you act more gay, doesn't mean it makes gay people act more straight.
 
2013-04-23 11:22:29 AM

soupafi: Just make tobacco illegal.


Never going to happen, it generates way too much money for the states.
 
2013-04-23 11:23:33 AM
New York Farkers,

Seriously. Get your shiat together. He is seriously ruining your great city.

kthxbai
 
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