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(Time)   Six things that are surprisingly banned from most front yards   (business.time.com) divider line 136
    More: Silly, vegetable gardens, garden gnomes, Whitefish Bay  
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24672 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2013 at 8:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



136 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-04-22 07:55:26 PM  
Read your fascist HOA contract before you sign.
 
2013-04-22 07:58:34 PM  
Oooo HOA thread.

/runs for popcorn
 
2013-04-22 08:02:53 PM  
cdn1.elitedaily.com

HOA is an acronym for what?
 
2013-04-22 08:14:10 PM  
Until someone finds a better jart target than lawn gnomes, my neighbors can kiss my ass.
 
2013-04-22 08:30:56 PM  
Makes me glad my neighborhood is unincorporated.  I could have farking goats and chickens in my yard if I wanted.
 
2013-04-22 08:33:04 PM  
Missing from list: graves
 
2013-04-22 08:35:32 PM  

Mugato: Read your fascist HOA contract before you signDo not move into neighborhoods that have an HOA.


FTFM
 
2013-04-22 08:48:54 PM  

toddalmighty: Missing from list: graves


I lawled.

From the list: Garden Gnomes. If these items cannot be displayed, please tell my sister that she has to remove her 3-foot tall Virgin Mary statue from her front yard.

/Jesus Christ.
//Worship him and not the broad.
///farking Catholics.
////Goddamnit so much.
 
2013-04-22 08:50:51 PM  
Yes, HOAs are insane.  However, this particular article deals primarily with municipal regulations...not HOAs.  City government can occasionally be insane too.
 
2013-04-22 08:54:36 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Yes, HOAs are insane.  However, this particular article deals primarily with municipal regulations...not HOAs.  City government can occasionally be insane too.


Forget it, this thread is headed for an HOA derp storm. It's going to get out of control and we'll be lucky to survive it.

/no couches in the front yard? Where am I supposed to lay naked? In the grass?
//the human wang is a beautiful thing
 
2013-04-22 08:54:40 PM  
Funny garden gnomes seem so quiet and meek.

s15.postimg.org
 
2013-04-22 08:56:47 PM  
The library sounds like a neat idea.
/now I just need a house to put one in front of
 
2013-04-22 08:57:13 PM  

What in The: toddalmighty: Missing from list: graves

I lawled.

From the list: Garden Gnomes. If these items cannot be displayed, please tell my sister that she has to remove her 3-foot tall Virgin Mary statue from her front yard.


Don't laugh; this guy had to replant his wife.

Jesus is worshipped; his mom is venerated.
 
2013-04-22 08:57:29 PM  
i34.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-22 09:00:14 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Yes, HOAs are insane.  However, this particular article deals primarily with municipal regulations...not HOAs.   City government can occasionally be insane too.


Great Neck is mentioned a few times, which isn't surprising considering the uptight nature of the demographic there.
 
2013-04-22 09:01:52 PM  
near halloween I hang hog skulls from the tree in my front yard

yes, my christmas lights are still up, why?
 
2013-04-22 09:02:46 PM  

Ambivalence: Makes me glad my neighborhood is unincorporated.  I could have farking goats and chickens in my yard if I wanted.


Driving to a golf course this morning I actually saw a goat happily watching the traffic from a front yard. Yes, it was out in the country, but not a farm house. Made me laugh, and also kind of want to move just out of the city enough to have that level of freedom.
 
2013-04-22 09:06:12 PM  
FTFA: Another resident said he was facing a $100-per-month fine if he didn't get rid of a basketball hoop in his driveway. Meanwhile, reporters took note that the community's homeowner association president had a decorative fountain and a statue of a cat in front of his house.

Yep, that's about right.

\Doesn't live in an HOA.  Lives in an apartment.  Which is only slightly better.
 
2013-04-22 09:08:11 PM  
Remember, you can only grow useless plants that consume water and produce little in return. Nothing that's actually useful. Enjoy your freedom.
 
2013-04-22 09:08:55 PM  
www.portalisimo.com

Zombies vs HOA's
 
2013-04-22 09:09:51 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-22 09:10:46 PM  

Ambivalence: Makes me glad my neighborhood is unincorporated.  I could have farking goats and chickens in my yard if I wanted.


I bet you see that as some sort of plus
 
2013-04-22 09:12:04 PM  
The whole anti-garden thing has created the term Guerrilla Gardening.
 
2013-04-22 09:13:10 PM  
It's a good thing I don't live any place that had a front lawn; one of the first things I'd do is plow up the useless inedible grass and put in some raised beds for actual produce. That way, any labor I have to expend on the plants will eventually come back to me as calories or as nutrients.

Of course, any place around here that has plots with lawns will probably have HOAs or neighbors that will have a shrieking shiat fit about someone actually tilling the soil instead of creating a living monument of too much free time and OCD.

Have I mentioned I hate lawns? They suck.
 
2013-04-22 09:14:38 PM  

Ambivalence: I could have farking goats and chickens in my yard if I wanted.


Um, did anyone tell you goats and chickens cannot have offspring?
 
2013-04-22 09:19:26 PM  

theorellior: Ambivalence: I could have farking goats and chickens in my yard if I wanted.

Um, did anyone tell you goats and chickens cannot have offspring?


Not that the rooster doesn't try.
 
2013-04-22 09:19:50 PM  
I've lived in too many crowded and over regulated places where a flower pot in the wrong place or ivy that grew 6" over the fence would get you a stern wag of the finger from your friendly HOA brown shirt in no time.
Finally had enough of all the nonsense of city life and retreated deep into the woods. No complaints about too many howling dogs, a boat trailer parked in the driveway, a basketball hoop or the handful of picknick tables around the fire pit.

/Land of the free
 
2013-04-22 09:20:21 PM  
This is the guy who enforced these rules in his community:
truelifecrimes.com
 
2013-04-22 09:20:26 PM  
what a stupid farking list.
 
2013-04-22 09:21:00 PM  
Canadian comedian Lorne Elliot used to have a great song about lawn ornaments. A quick check of YouTube reveals nothing. :(
 
2013-04-22 09:21:42 PM  
You must conform.
 
2013-04-22 09:22:12 PM  
I live in a hippie city.  Front yard gardens are encouraged.  I have one because the trees in my back yard block out the sun.
 
2013-04-22 09:22:56 PM  
Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?
 
2013-04-22 09:25:42 PM  
I agree with everything but the garden gnomes. They should be encouraged, and in fact a tax break should be given out to residents for each and every garden gnome they put out on their front lawns. This way when people walk or drive down the streets, they can see that it's a happy, peaceful community, and maybe then the actual gnomes will stop killing our first-born and all will be back to normal.
 
2013-04-22 09:25:49 PM  

Whatthefark: [

i34.tinypic.com ]

DONUTS!!1!
 
2013-04-22 09:26:25 PM  
This is why I don't have a yard. Well, not really. I don't have a yard because I have absolutely no interest in having a yard. But it sounds good, doesn't it? I have a nice little fenced in patio, paved with brick. I sweep it a few times a year.

SurelyShirley: Finally had enough of all the nonsense of city life


Maybe it's the east coast, but I have  never seen a HOA within city borders. You generally don't get a HOA until you're out in the burbs. I saw a few city-ish HOAs when I visited Denver, but none in anything I'd call a "city" neighborhood. As a general rule, if you need a car to get groceries, you  probably don't live in a city (or you live too deep into the city such that you're in a 'food desert').
 
2013-04-22 09:28:37 PM  
Obviously, this list does not apply to Council Bluffs, Iowa...
 
2013-04-22 09:29:16 PM  
I have Garret Morris on my front lawn (summer only).
 
2013-04-22 09:30:22 PM  

tonguedepressor:


Came here for the lawn jockey.
Leaving very satisfied.
Thank you good sir!
 
2013-04-22 09:31:26 PM  
i237.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-22 09:32:18 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?


Usually, people like you that want to do "anything" they want are the first to complain when others do things that you do not like.....
 
2013-04-22 09:36:10 PM  

t3knomanser: Maybe it's the east coast, but I have  never seen a HOA within city borders. You generally don't get a HOA until you're out in the burbs. I saw a few city-ish HOAs when I visited Denver, but none in anything I'd call a "city" neighborhood. As a general rule, if you need a car to get groceries, you  probably don't live in a city (or you live too deep into the city such that you're in a 'food desert').


The nutty HOA experiences were in SoCal. Some might refer to it as L.A. and OC Metro area, to me it's a city. Call it what you will, doesn't make a difference. It's crowded, noisy, busy. It's a city.
Yes, you'd get groceries, like everything else, by car. Not only because of the distance, but how else would you carry your stuff home?
 
2013-04-22 09:38:57 PM  

SurelyShirley: Not only because of the distance, but how else would you carry your stuff home?


If you can't carry your groceries the block from the grocery store, you get a granny cart. If the grocery store is more than three blocks away, it's not a city. That's east coast logic, anyway.
 
2013-04-22 09:40:25 PM  
I hate HOAS, but if your going to join one make sure you check what you want to do to your yard is permitted and it it seems borderline get it okayed first.  Same goes for city or county ordinances.

also No couches in yards or on porches period.
 
2013-04-22 09:41:36 PM  

t3knomanser: SurelyShirley: Not only because of the distance, but how else would you carry your stuff home?

If you can't carry your groceries the block from the grocery store, you get a granny cart. If the grocery store is more than three blocks away, it's not a city. That's east coast logic, anyway.


Learned something new today.
Thank you, kind farker
 
2013-04-22 09:42:55 PM  

SurelyShirley: I've lived in too many crowded and over regulated places where a flower pot in the wrong place or ivy that grew 6" over the fence would get you a stern wag of the finger from your friendly HOA brown shirt in no time.
Finally had enough of all the nonsense of city life and retreated deep into the woods. No complaints about too many howling dogs, a boat trailer parked in the driveway, a basketball hoop or the handful of picknick tables around the fire pit.

/Land of the free


It seems like overzealous HOAs are mostly a suburban thing.  I've lived most of my life in a city, a rather large one and people put all sorts of random shiat in their little postage stamp front yards.   Not too long ago someone made an eight foot white crane out of fabric and installed that in their front yard and nobody cared except to take pictures of it or make fun of them.  I've seen people grow vegetables (a bad idea in this soil if not done right), make shrines to whatever saint or god they worship, construct elaborate 'art' installations, set up a fire in a container in a double lot and hang around it drinking beer etc. and I've not seen much in the way of concern by the city unless it is unsafe to passerbys or is attracting rodents.

Whenever I hear stories about these HOAs, I just imagine watching their collective heads explode if they had to live by the guy in my old neighborhood who did this to his house (who sadly died in 2007).  Thankfully nobody around here seemed to care about his unique sense of exterior decoration and let him be.

www.wurlington-bros.com
 
2013-04-22 09:43:07 PM  

ggecko: Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?

Usually, people like you that want to do "anything" they want are the first to complain when others do things that you do not like.....


Who said I want to do "anything"? I'm just pointing out that home "ownership" isn't that great, and renting isn't that bad. I don't know anyone who owns who's satisfied, and home "owners" are usually the saddest, brokest people I know.

I have cash in my hands at the end of every year. Home owners have more poker chips every year.
 
2013-04-22 09:44:55 PM  
I keep my tacky lawn art in the back yard where it amuses me and bothers no one but badly decorated yards are sort of a local art form. One of my area's less subtle displays:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-22 09:48:34 PM  

A Shambling Mound: I keep my tacky lawn art in the back yard where it amuses me and bothers no one but badly decorated yards are sort of a local art form. One of my area's less subtle displays:

[i.imgur.com image 514x385]


Love it. Humans should be free, not ants in a hive going to soul-crushing jobs to pay municipal and school taxes on tiny condos in a concrete jungle.
 
2013-04-22 09:55:42 PM  
From the Whitefish Bay (the town that doesn't like book-sharing) municipal code:


All bicycles operated within the Village of Whitefish Bay are required to be licensed. The fee is $10.00, and the license does not expire.


What the bloody hell is the purpose of licensing bicycles ?
 
2013-04-22 09:56:22 PM  
I'm all for freedom of expression, but can we please ban this shiat?

paulalovesmarla.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-22 09:57:14 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Ambivalence: Makes me glad my neighborhood is unincorporated.  I could have farking goats and chickens in my yard if I wanted.

I bet you see that as some sort of plus


I bet you see that as some sort of negative
 
2013-04-22 10:04:46 PM  
I want a clothes line.  No, I'm not poor.
 
2013-04-22 10:05:39 PM  

Ambivalence: Makes me glad my neighborhood is unincorporated.  I could have farking goats and chickens in my yard if I wanted.


Same here. Rural areas are the best. Can't keep horses and chickens in town. Or burn garbage.... Shoot squirrels, do pig roasts in the yard.
 
2013-04-22 10:06:11 PM  

t3knomanser: This is why I don't have a yard. Well, not really. I don't have a yard because I have absolutely no interest in having a yard. But it sounds good, doesn't it? I have a nice little fenced in patio, paved with brick. I sweep it a few times a year.

SurelyShirley: Finally had enough of all the nonsense of city life

Maybe it's the east coast, but I have  never seen a HOA within city borders. You generally don't get a HOA until you're out in the burbs. I saw a few city-ish HOAs when I visited Denver, but none in anything I'd call a "city" neighborhood. As a general rule, if you need a car to get groceries, you  probably don't live in a city (or you live too deep into the city such that you're in a 'food desert').


My old house was within the city limits of Douglasville, GA and was within an HOA as well. Granted, Douglasville was a suburb of Atlanta, but it was an incorporated city and it was outside of Fulton County.

New house? Not in an HOA, not in the city limits, out in the unincorporated parts of Lee Co, Florida. There's some county rules and regulations, but they're pretty tame compared to the Gestapo rules of Cape Coral and Ft Myers.

/up until a year or two ago, you couldn't park a pickup truck in your driveway in Cape Coral
//brand new or broken down beater, didn't matter
 
2013-04-22 10:07:26 PM  

grimlock1972: I hate HOAS, but if your going to join one make sure you check what you want to do to your yard is permitted and it it seems borderline get it okayed first.  Same goes for city or county ordinances.

also No couches in yards or on porches period.


That one makes a little sense in that vermin like to live in them.  Nobody wants to sit on a skunk den
 
2013-04-22 10:07:48 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?


Still upset you had to sign away your mineral rights?
 
2013-04-22 10:08:31 PM  

TheSwissNavy: What the bloody hell is the purpose of licensing bicycles ?


It's the first step toward confiscating your guns and the introduction of the New World Order.
 
2013-04-22 10:13:48 PM  
If somebody has to tell you not to put a couch on your lawn, you should probably go live in a trailer park anyway. You'll fit in much better there.
 
2013-04-22 10:14:03 PM  

Amos Quito: [cdn1.elitedaily.com image 485x328]

HOA is an acronym for what?


Home Owners Association, or are you's jis trollin?
 
2013-04-22 10:16:51 PM  
What I don't understand (being in Scotland) about these HOA's is how they actually enforce their batshiattery..

I know when you buy your house from the last victim, in the sale contract with the Owner, you have to sign the HOA contract...hence they can get you.
But what would happen if the person selling the house to you, declines to make that a condition;

At that point your contract of sale is purely with the Owner (who DOES have a contract with the HOA), but if you don't ink anything with the HOA, because the current Owner decides "fark em", aside from suing the old Owner once the sale has commenced, in what way can the HOA do shiat against you? You own the house; your contract with the previous owner, having no stupid clause about an HOA, is complete upon transfer of agreed funds etc. so how could the HOA, now a third-party to your contract with the Owner, come in and tell you to move shiat, change that, don't do this?

Any legal eagles in the US clear my ignorance up for me?
 
2013-04-22 10:21:48 PM  
The anti-vegetable (and rules about green grass) really confound me. Who cares what your yard grows as long as you can keep it tidy?
 
2013-04-22 10:22:15 PM  

t3knomanser: This is why I don't have a yard. Well, not really. I don't have a yard because I have absolutely no interest in having a yard. But it sounds good, doesn't it? I have a nice little fenced in patio, paved with brick. I sweep it a few times a year.

SurelyShirley: Finally had enough of all the nonsense of city life

Maybe it's the east coast, but I have  never seen a HOA within city borders. You generally don't get a HOA until you're out in the burbs. I saw a few city-ish HOAs when I visited Denver, but none in anything I'd call a "city" neighborhood. As a general rule, if you need a car to get groceries, you  probably don't live in a city (or you live too deep into the city such that you're in a 'food desert').


Lawlz, here in TX, I need my car to get my goddamn mail. And yes, I live in the city. Cities in the NE we're laid out before the car, and that's about the only place in America where what you describe is normal, man.
 
2013-04-22 10:31:31 PM  

TheSwissNavy: From the Whitefish Bay (the town that doesn't like book-sharing) municipal code:


All bicycles operated within the Village of Whitefish Bay are required to be licensed. The fee is $10.00, and the license does not expire.


What the bloody hell is the purpose of licensing bicycles ?


Revenue generation?
 
2013-04-22 10:34:54 PM  
List fails without old bath-tubs converted to shrines to the BVM. (Italian, Portuguese neighbourhoods)

Mirror balls and planters made from old tires painted white. (proles with a touch of DIY)

Concrete geese and deer. (animal lovers who love their animals stuffed and mounted.)

Excessive numbers of whirligigs and ducks with wings that rotate. (Insane People Live Here.)

Old men mowing the lawn with scythes (time warps)

Goats. (back roads full of hippies with suspiciously large collections of luxury four-wheel drives)

Junked pick-up trucks, with resident goat. (Adam Sandler sketches)

Matched sets of tiny lions, tight-assed 50s and 60s topiary. (People who know all the words to Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail)

Rented signs that quote Scriptures (Dangerously religious people).

Shoes hanging from the telephone wires. (Foot fetishists that don't take down their Christmas decorations).
Christmas decorations galore (People who can't let go.)

Easter decorations (People who go too far.)

Over-wrought Halloween decorations (cool people if the date is between Oct 1-31), creepy people if the date is between Dec 1- Feb 14).

The overflow of cars from the driveway (Party people, working class rural people with six teenage children).

A Rolls Royce Silver Phantom (Very, very lucky people. And you're lucky too if you got that far up the drive without being shot.)

A complete set of garden gnomes (people who sell garden gnomes and the people they sell them to.)

Tombstones (The house was once a church or the home-owner sells funeral monuments from his home.)

Jimmy Carter wearing a giant beehive wig. (You are watching a Simpsons cartoon. Or else you are stoned.)
 
2013-04-22 10:35:36 PM  
There are a few communities here in northeast Georgia that have signs stating they are "covenant restricted" communities.  As I understand it, that's an HOA taken to new levels of idiocy.
 
2013-04-22 10:36:55 PM  

AdrienVeidt: Lawlz, here in TX, I need my car to get my goddamn mail. And yes, I live in the city. Cities in the NE we're laid out before the car, and that's about the only place in America where what you describe is normal, man.


Uh, not just the NE.  There are a few other older cities in the US not in the NE that are laid out reasonably as well.  I live in a building built in the late 1800's a few blocks from a subway station and I'm nowhere near the NE.  I have a car but don't often drive it (I think I put about 4000 miles on it last year) because I can walk or take public transportation to much of what I need to, and no, I'm not some silly self-righteous little hipster, I'm in my 40's.
 
2013-04-22 10:44:12 PM  

Galileo's Daughter: There are a few communities here in northeast Georgia that have signs stating they are "covenant restricted" communities.  As I understand it, that's an HOA taken to new levels of idiocy.


An HOA's restrictions/rules are typically called covenants.  There's nothing new here other than the signs state "covenant restricted" as opposed to "managed by XXXX HOA association".
 
2013-04-22 10:44:34 PM  

Wizard Drongo: Any legal eagles in the US clear my ignorance up for me?


I would think there'd be covenants placed on the title.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_%28law%29#Covenants_in_planned _c ommunities
 
2013-04-22 10:49:34 PM  
When I was a young lad in New England (as an involuntary tourist, that is), I noted that there seems to be some sort of law that requires a lawn sale, garage sale, or a unattended stand selling some homely craft or "local" produce on every lawn and driveway. All the good stuff is gone before 5:00 a.m. (or 6:00 p.m. the night before if the homeowners allow "Early People"), so I'm not exactly sure what New Englanders have to sell, but whatever they have, they seem to sell it and everything else they can't fit in a garburator.

In fact, New Englanders never throw any thing out. They just move it around from yard to yard until it becomes antiques. People in the Maritime Provinces are smilar except they don't put the stuff they collect out on the lawn. At least, not if it's useful or nice. I've been in many houses that suggest the rule is that the interior decoration is the same period as the house because nobody ever buys new furniture once they've been married for three years. That's why you see truckloads of "antiques" heading West all summer. Their must be at last 600,000,000 XIXth century houses between Fredericton, New Brunswick and St. John's Harbour, Newfoundland.

Either that or somebody bought the entire stock of the Sears Roebuck Company between 1880-1939 and are slowly liquidating it an enormous profit.
 
2013-04-22 10:49:46 PM  

tonguedepressor: [upload.wikimedia.org image 366x500]


Lawn jockeys aren't racist and were used to point the way to the underground railroad & code for a safe house/refuge for slaves.
 
2013-04-22 10:54:58 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I live in a hippie city.  Front yard gardens are encouraged.  I have one because the trees in my back yard block out the sun.


Just put together a new raised bed in my front yard here. I have vegies in the backyard as well, but most of them are in the front for the same reason as you. the ones in the back don't need as much light. Mostly the leafy greens, the spinich is doing great this year!

neighbor down the way is the organizer of the local Farmers market group and she has a couple of goats and a little flock of chickens in yard.

and this is one of the vintage suburban neighborhoods in a classically conservative city.
 
2013-04-22 10:55:09 PM  

TheSwissNavy: From the Whitefish Bay (the town that doesn't like book-sharing) municipal code:


All bicycles operated within the Village of Whitefish Bay are required to be licensed. The fee is $10.00, and the license does not expire.


What the bloody hell is the purpose of licensing bicycles ?


So that those who sell bicycle lincenses can have jobs.
 
2013-04-22 10:56:34 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?

Still upset you had to sign away your mineral rights?


It's all fun and games until a developer puts a yellow tag on a tree. Oh, sorry, "your" tree.
 
2013-04-22 10:58:44 PM  

Wizard Drongo: What I don't understand (being in Scotland) about these HOA's is how they actually enforce their batshiattery..

I know when you buy your house from the last victim, in the sale contract with the Owner, you have to sign the HOA contract...hence they can get you.
But what would happen if the person selling the house to you, declines to make that a condition;

At that point your contract of sale is purely with the Owner (who DOES have a contract with the HOA), but if you don't ink anything with the HOA, because the current Owner decides "fark em", aside from suing the old Owner once the sale has commenced, in what way can the HOA do shiat against you? You own the house; your contract with the previous owner, having no stupid clause about an HOA, is complete upon transfer of agreed funds etc. so how could the HOA, now a third-party to your contract with the Owner, come in and tell you to move shiat, change that, don't do this?

Any legal eagles in the US clear my ignorance up for me?


I'm actually wondering the same thing.  We just bought our house and there was no HOA contract to sign, but it turns out there is an HOA.  Now, the dues are minimal (like $20/month) and for the parks and walking trails we get it's worth it, and the restrictions aren't particularly onerous (no cars in the yard, no permanent clotheslines, try to keep trash bins out of site, etc.) but there is one big restriction that I'm curious about.  Supposedly, we're supposed to keep fences ten feet from the walking trails, but nobody seems to follow that restriction and I'm hoping it won't come up when we want to fence in our yard.  Honestly, I've seen a bunch of "violations" in the couple of weeks we've been here but nobody seems to really care about it.  It's probably the difference between a 1970s era HOA and a newer HOA.
 
2013-04-22 11:05:58 PM  

rugman11: It's probably the difference between a 1970s era HOA and a newer HOA.


I believe you are correct.  I know some people who live in an older subdivision with a 70's era HOA.  A retired Chicago cop moved in decided he wanted to raise goats in his back yard (this is a semi-rural area), so he did.  When one of the neighbors didn't like it she realized that the HOA agreements required that she had to built a case with the other neighbors to complain about his goats.  Turns out nobody cared as he took good care of those damn goats and she was just uptight, therefore the goats remain.  I think they are cute.
 
2013-04-22 11:14:58 PM  
What most think a front yard garden will look like:

imavex.vo.llnwd.net

What they really look like most of the year:
i.imgur.com

Which might be ok, just don't romanticize what you're getting into.
 
2013-04-22 11:21:50 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Ambivalence: Makes me glad my neighborhood is unincorporated.  I could have farking goats and chickens in my yard if I wanted.

I bet you see that as some sort of plus


I think it is. Granted its a pretty cool neighborhood and people don't have rusted out cars or appliances in their yards.  It could be a big negative if it went trashy.
 
2013-04-22 11:25:37 PM  

Wizard Drongo: What I don't understand (being in Scotland) about these HOA's is how they actually enforce their batshiattery..

I know when you buy your house from the last victim, in the sale contract with the Owner, you have to sign the HOA contract...hence they can get you.
But what would happen if the person selling the house to you, declines to make that a condition;

At that point your contract of sale is purely with the Owner (who DOES have a contract with the HOA), but if you don't ink anything with the HOA, because the current Owner decides "fark em", aside from suing the old Owner once the sale has commenced, in what way can the HOA do shiat against you? You own the house; your contract with the previous owner, having no stupid clause about an HOA, is complete upon transfer of agreed funds etc. so how could the HOA, now a third-party to your contract with the Owner, come in and tell you to move shiat, change that, don't do this?

Any legal eagles in the US clear my ignorance up for me?


very basic explanation: Membership of the HOA is a restriction recorded against the real property. Whenever you buy the property, you take it subject to the HOA restrictions like taking property subject to any other easement. An HOA can usually enforce rulings by placing a lien on the property, then foreclosing if necessary.

Incidentally, HOA's that work are like the planes that land. They don't make the news, but they are the vast majority. My neighbor painting his house neon orange and putting couches and cars in the yard would be very bad for my house's value, so I don't complain.
 
2013-04-22 11:26:07 PM  
hmm, 6 things that I unsurprisingly already knew were banned from front yards.

good job, Time.
 
2013-04-22 11:28:45 PM  
www.sampa.com
 
2013-04-22 11:29:11 PM  
>Couches*

*Not valid in Morgantown, WV during football season

//if they are having a good season, they won't be there long and you'll be able to see the smoke from miles away
 
2013-04-22 11:31:24 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?


Let's see...
I have to live somewhere, right? The last apartment I had (4 years ago) is now renting for more than I pay per month for mortgage + taxes + insurance. The wife and I both have stable careers and we won't need to move for the foreseeable future. There is no HOA where I live, and I have yet to be told "no" by the town for any of the rather extensive work that I've done to the house.

Explain to me what makes me a "slave" to my mortgage.
 
2013-04-22 11:35:32 PM  

DarthBart: t3knomanser: This is why I don't have a yard. Well, not really. I don't have a yard because I have absolutely no interest in having a yard. But it sounds good, doesn't it? I have a nice little fenced in patio, paved with brick. I sweep it a few times a year.

SurelyShirley: Finally had enough of all the nonsense of city life

/up until a year or two ago, you couldn't park a pickup truck in your driveway in Cape Coral
//brand new or broken down beater, didn't matter


You've got to be kidding. Most trucks cost more than new cars do. I could see them making a case for maybe on-street parking but you are going to tell someone essentially what type of vehicle they can park in their own driveway? If accurate, I'm surprised that scenario hasn't seen the inside of a courtroom yet.
 
2013-04-22 11:35:59 PM  
Goddamn so you mean I got to tear down this gigantic marble statue of Dabney Coleman in the firing pose from 9 to 5 just for this.
 
2013-04-22 11:49:37 PM  
I'm ripping up my front lawn and planting prairie grasses and wildflowers.  Less for me to mow, better for water filtration/absorption, and attracts birds and butterflies.  If the neighbors don't like it, they can suck a fat one.  I might do a garden as well, as the back yard is mostly shaded by the 100+ year old oaks.  Perfect for entertaining, sucky for veggies.

/bought a nice old fixer upper
//buy low, kids
 
2013-04-23 12:09:46 AM  
About the only things code says sind verboten in my city is livestock other than chickens, non operational vehicles, and grass taller than 12",

and the non operational vehicles can be keeped in the backyard if it either has a privacy fence or sufficient wooded area to qualify as equivelent to a privacy fence, and the livestock can be keeped if you pay for a permit and have a big enough lot and high enough fence to meet inspection.
 
2013-04-23 12:13:13 AM  

xxmedium: DarthBart: t3knomanser: This is why I don't have a yard. Well, not really. I don't have a yard because I have absolutely no interest in having a yard. But it sounds good, doesn't it? I have a nice little fenced in patio, paved with brick. I sweep it a few times a year.

SurelyShirley: Finally had enough of all the nonsense of city life

/up until a year or two ago, you couldn't park a pickup truck in your driveway in Cape Coral
//brand new or broken down beater, didn't matter

You've got to be kidding. Most trucks cost more than new cars do. I could see them making a case for maybe on-street parking but you are going to tell someone essentially what type of vehicle they can park in their own driveway? If accurate, I'm surprised that scenario hasn't seen the inside of a courtroom yet.


Remember, once the HOA gets started, they can write anything they want in.  You buy the house, you automatically agree to any BS they wanna fling, you don't get to complain.  A courtroom case wouldn't last 10 minutes most likely, it's all bound up nicely in legalese and those lovely 'binding automatic agreements' that are so popular nowadays.
 
2013-04-23 12:26:04 AM  
Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?

lizyrd: Let's see...
I have to live somewhere, right? The last apartment I had (4 years ago) is now renting for more than I pay per month for mortgage + taxes + insurance. The wife and I both have stable careers and we won't need to move for the foreseeable future. There is no HOA where I live, and I have yet to be told "no" by the town for any of the rather extensive work that I've done to the house.
Explain to me what makes me a "slave" to my mortgage.


Farkers who can't afford to buy houses are very disparaging of home ownership. They don't understand basic economics yet think they're more financially savvy than homeowners. Sour grapes served with sour finances.
 
2013-04-23 12:30:17 AM  
As far as I know all of those are legal in my neighborhood, though I honestly don't know if anyone has tried to open a library on their front walk yet.

/no HOA
//actually liked my last HOA
///free BBQ and beer parties!
 
2013-04-23 12:42:25 AM  
I'm pretty sure I have neighbors who have all six of those things on their front lawns at the same time on any given day.
 
2013-04-23 12:47:52 AM  
1-10 anything but grass and trees

exceptions for holidays and politics
 
2013-04-23 12:48:33 AM  
27 years same house, no HOA, small cul-de-sac by a lake.
We just give polite nods to each other and help each other when we can.
When the Cessna bit the trees 20 something years ago, we all worked together for minor repairs and stuff. Other than that, our damn pink plastic flamingos stay.
 
2013-04-23 12:52:23 AM  

EngineerAU: What most think a front yard garden will look like:

[imavex.vo.llnwd.net image 452x300]

What they really look like most of the year:
[i.imgur.com image 300x202]

Which might be ok, just don't romanticize what you're getting into.


Raised beds look pretty bad, no matter where they are.  Plus they use more water.

Profile has pics of my front and backyard.
 
2013-04-23 01:08:29 AM  
But is it really still a couch if you make it into a porch swing?
 
2013-04-23 01:10:03 AM  
My front yard is mostly edible trees, vines, bushes, perennial and annual veggies, native prairie grasses and wildflowers, with a few special ornamental plants thrown in here and there.  Most people notice my garden and I get a lot of compliments from neighbors and visitors, but few people even realize it's mostly food.  This notion that edible plants are less attractive than strictly ornamental ones is silly; the plants that I get the most "oohs" and "ahs" over are my tall, ferny asparagus, bold, stately artichokes, and my hardy almond trees when they're covered in gorgeous pink blossoms that rival ornamental cherries and bloom much earlier.

/I have to admit, though, boxy raised veggie beds are ugly.
 
2013-04-23 01:14:24 AM  
used to live in a subdivision of about 80 homes.  hoa fees about the same--84 bucks per year.  included a boat ramp, beach and park, and we used to have some of the best parties around---progressive dinner in the spring, summer picnics at the beach, a boat flotilla once a year.  lots of other benefits.  couldnt beat the price.

i miss that neighborhood.
 
2013-04-23 01:43:32 AM  

Forsythe P. Jones: 27 years same house, no HOA, small cul-de-sac by a lake.
We just give polite nods to each other and help each other when we can.
When the Cessna bit the trees 20 something years ago, we all worked together for minor repairs and stuff. Other than that, our damn pink plastic flamingos stay.


www.surroundedbyreality.com
Saw this live in 1979, my first day at Madison.  Thought they did this every year.
 
2013-04-23 02:04:10 AM  
Two blocks from me a guy planted flowers in an ugly toilet in his front yard. Came here to see toilets on the list. Didn't see squat.
 
2013-04-23 02:12:13 AM  
What a bunch of busy-bodied freaks.
 
2013-04-23 02:20:21 AM  

oohpah: Two blocks from me a guy planted flowers in an ugly toilet in his front yard. Came here to see toilets on the list. Didn't see squat.


Of course.

That's why we have toilets.
 
2013-04-23 02:57:34 AM  

oohpah: Two blocks from me a guy planted flowers in an ugly toilet in his front yard. Came here to see toilets on the list. Didn't see squat.


You should put a flowerbox full of feces on your front lawn. It will balance out the universe.
 
2013-04-23 04:26:26 AM  

TheSwissNavy: From the Whitefish Bay (the town that doesn't like book-sharing) municipal code:


All bicycles operated within the Village of Whitefish Bay are required to be licensed. The fee is $10.00, and the license does not expire.


What the bloody hell is the purpose of licensing bicycles ?


Bicycles are easily stolen or mis-taken and the license proves ownership. Unlicensed bike? I bet that's a $50 ticket  plus costs.
 
2013-04-23 04:54:45 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: ggecko: Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?

Usually, people like you that want to do "anything" they want are the first to complain when others do things that you do not like.....

Who said I want to do "anything"? I'm just pointing out that home "ownership" isn't that great, and renting isn't that bad. I don't know anyone who owns who's satisfied, and home "owners" are usually the saddest, brokest people I know.

I have cash in my hands at the end of every year. Home owners have more poker chips every year.


My mortgage is £150 each month. To rent the identical house next door would now cost £800 a month, and here both figures have property tax on top. In five years my mortgage stops while the renter has to carry on paying.
Who has more money in their pocket at the end of the year?
 
2013-04-23 05:13:58 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Quantum Apostrophe: ggecko: Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?

Usually, people like you that want to do "anything" they want are the first to complain when others do things that you do not like.....

Who said I want to do "anything"? I'm just pointing out that home "ownership" isn't that great, and renting isn't that bad. I don't know anyone who owns who's satisfied, and home "owners" are usually the saddest, brokest people I know.

I have cash in my hands at the end of every year. Home owners have more poker chips every year.

My mortgage is £150 each month. To rent the identical house next door would now cost £800 a month, and here both figures have property tax on top. In five years my mortgage stops while the renter has to carry on paying.
Who has more money in their pocket at the end of the year?


How old's your roof?
 
2013-04-23 06:34:20 AM  

lizyrd: Explain to me what makes me a "slave" to my mortgage.


The fact that if you miss a few payments "your" investment goes bye bye? I'm glad you can predict the future so well though. Oh and try not paying your taxes and see who owns what.

Flint Ironstag: Quantum Apostrophe: ggecko: Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?

Usually, people like you that want to do "anything" they want are the first to complain when others do things that you do not like.....

Who said I want to do "anything"? I'm just pointing out that home "ownership" isn't that great, and renting isn't that bad. I don't know anyone who owns who's satisfied, and home "owners" are usually the saddest, brokest people I know.

I have cash in my hands at the end of every year. Home owners have more poker chips every year.

My mortgage is £150 each month. To rent the identical house next door would now cost £800 a month, and here both figures have property tax on top. In five years my mortgage stops while the renter has to carry on paying.
Who has more money in their pocket at the end of the year?


Um, until you sell, not you? No repairs and maintenance either, a magic house!
 
2013-04-23 06:49:02 AM  

Phins: Farkers who can't afford to buy houses are very disparaging of home ownership. They don't understand basic economics yet think they're more financially savvy than homeowners. Sour grapes served with sour finances.


So I pay 495$ rent in a province with a rental board. I have no taxes to pay and I get all my repairs done by the landlord. That lets me save easily 500$ a month, and usually much more. At the end of the year I put that money into an RRSP which lets me deduct the amount from my revenue before taxes ... which gets me a refund in the area of 50%.

I get ~4000$ a year back from the government because I don't have to put that money into a mortgage, municipal taxes, school taxes and insurance.

In the meantime I have actual money in my hands NOW. If I want to go on an all-inclusive two week vacation, I pay it cash. People pay that every year just in taxes. I get a "free" trip every year.

Because I HAVE the cash, and I don't have to feed it into the never ending chasm of bills and taxes that is a house.

But you go ahead and tell me about economics, as if life is just a series of figures in a spreadsheet....

Oh, and since every house also goes up in value, when you sell, you have to buy, well, how can you "make" money?
 
2013-04-23 07:48:59 AM  

untaken_name: Flint Ironstag: Quantum Apostrophe: ggecko: Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?

Usually, people like you that want to do "anything" they want are the first to complain when others do things that you do not like.....

Who said I want to do "anything"? I'm just pointing out that home "ownership" isn't that great, and renting isn't that bad. I don't know anyone who owns who's satisfied, and home "owners" are usually the saddest, brokest people I know.

I have cash in my hands at the end of every year. Home owners have more poker chips every year.

My mortgage is £150 each month. To rent the identical house next door would now cost £800 a month, and here both figures have property tax on top. In five years my mortgage stops while the renter has to carry on paying.
Who has more money in their pocket at the end of the year?

How old's your roof?


Why does that matter? In the UK tile roofs just last. House I grew up in was over 200 years old and still had the original roof. A friend has a 400 year old cottage and still has the original roof. In the twenty years I have owned my house I have spent maybe £500 on maintanance, excluding gardening and redecorating for cosmetic reasons.
 
2013-04-23 07:51:26 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: lizyrd: Explain to me what makes me a "slave" to my mortgage.

The fact that if you miss a few payments "your" investment goes bye bye? I'm glad you can predict the future so well though. Oh and try not paying your taxes and see who owns what.

Flint Ironstag: Quantum Apostrophe: ggecko: Quantum Apostrophe: Ah yes, home "ownership", because it's "yours" and you can do what you want... uh huh. Explain that to me again, mortgage-slaves?

Usually, people like you that want to do "anything" they want are the first to complain when others do things that you do not like.....

Who said I want to do "anything"? I'm just pointing out that home "ownership" isn't that great, and renting isn't that bad. I don't know anyone who owns who's satisfied, and home "owners" are usually the saddest, brokest people I know.

I have cash in my hands at the end of every year. Home owners have more poker chips every year.

My mortgage is £150 each month. To rent the identical house next door would now cost £800 a month, and here both figures have property tax on top. In five years my mortgage stops while the renter has to carry on paying.
Who has more money in their pocket at the end of the year?

Um, until you sell, not you? No repairs and maintenance either, a magic house!


So what happens to the £650 I save every month? And see post above for maintenance costs.
 
2013-04-23 07:54:51 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: oohpah: Two blocks from me a guy planted flowers in an ugly toilet in his front yard. Came here to see toilets on the list. Didn't see squat.

You should put a flowerbox full of feces on your front lawn. It will balance out the universe.


Or you could be like this guy who lived down the street from me and put this up in your yard.  That'll show 'em.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-23 07:55:46 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: oohpah: Two blocks from me a guy planted flowers in an ugly toilet in his front yard. Came here to see toilets on the list. Didn't see squat.

You should put a flowerbox full of feces on your front lawn. It will balance out the universe.


Flowerbox Full of Feces? I think I saw them open for Elvis Costello.
 
2013-04-23 08:22:48 AM  
How about an El Camino or Camaro on cinder blocks?  That's what my lawn needs.
 
2013-04-23 08:22:48 AM  

Flint Ironstag: So what happens to the £650 I save every month? And see post above for maintenance costs.


Which you only save after decades of paying mortgage... You're now old and have few years left to do anything, while I traveled the world while young. Your house ain't a time machine, so sorry. But do enjoy your tile roof in your rainy paradise.
 
2013-04-23 08:33:50 AM  
Yeah, can't say I disagree with any of these things. But I already know what types this thread will attract - the eccentrics who think there's nothing wrong with having shiat junk all over their property because fark you that's why.
 
2013-04-23 08:38:13 AM  

Flint Ironstag:  
Why does that matter? In the UK tile roofs just last. House I grew up in was over 200 years old and still had the original roof. A friend has a 400 year old cottage and still has the original roof. In the twenty years I have owned my house I have spent maybe £500 on maintanance, excluding gardening and redecorating for cosmetic reasons.


Heh... In a lot of the US the predominant roof type is asphalt shingles which get eaten by the sun. Depending on where you live you'll be lucky to get 20 years out of it before problems kick in, which is a big issue if you're buying a house that hasn't been re-roofed in a while as you'll soon find yourself forking out thousands of bucks.

As a roofing system it's cheaper to install and a lot lighter so saves on timber, but is much more of a maintenance headache than a decent tiled roof.

I assume you got your house a long time ago - congrats on the £150/month mortgage.
 
2013-04-23 08:41:35 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Flint Ironstag: So what happens to the £650 I save every month? And see post above for maintenance costs.

Which you only save after decades of paying mortgage... You're now old and have few years left to do anything, while I traveled the world while young. Your house ain't a time machine, so sorry. But do enjoy your tile roof in your rainy paradise.


And generally rents keep increasing year after year.  With no tax deductions.  Both renting and buying have their place under the sun.  Buying is a better long term deal, renting is better if you need to be mobile.  Both, however, require the person to be smart, do the math, and make sure their decision fits the circumstances that they're in.
 
2013-04-23 08:48:09 AM  
My edible garden will stay in the front because that's the south facing side. Also, got my rain barrel from the city. Clothes line went up as fast as possible but everyone has one so it was no biggie. Still trying to convince hubby-to-be to build me a chicken coop (an argument I'm not winning).
 
2013-04-23 08:50:29 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Why does that matter? In the UK tile roofs just last. House I grew up in was over 200 years old and still had the original roof. A friend has a 400 year old cottage and still has the original roof. In the twenty years I have owned my house I have spent maybe £500 on maintanance, excluding gardening and redecorating for cosmetic reasons.


Well, I hope you live happily ever after in your magic house.
 
2013-04-23 09:11:18 AM  

untaken_name: Flint Ironstag: Why does that matter? In the UK tile roofs just last. House I grew up in was over 200 years old and still had the original roof. A friend has a 400 year old cottage and still has the original roof. In the twenty years I have owned my house I have spent maybe £500 on maintanance, excluding gardening and redecorating for cosmetic reasons.

Well, I hope you live happily ever after in your magic house.


I don't think that's too odd for some of the really old homes.  Structurally, many of those are built like brick shiathouses.  Of course, he's in the UK, which introduces it's own issues around land ownership and like such as, but still.  Assuming it's built well, I'd rather have an older house (100+ years) than one of the new developments.  They're sturdier and the interior details can be significantly more interesting.
 
2013-04-23 09:21:41 AM  

ronaprhys: untaken_name: Flint Ironstag: Why does that matter? In the UK tile roofs just last. House I grew up in was over 200 years old and still had the original roof. A friend has a 400 year old cottage and still has the original roof. In the twenty years I have owned my house I have spent maybe £500 on maintanance, excluding gardening and redecorating for cosmetic reasons.

Well, I hope you live happily ever after in your magic house.

I don't think that's too odd for some of the really old homes.  Structurally, many of those are built like brick shiathouses.  Of course, he's in the UK, which introduces it's own issues around land ownership and like such as, but still.  Assuming it's built well, I'd rather have an older house (100+ years) than one of the new developments.  They're sturdier and the interior details can be significantly more interesting.


Honestly, I'm just jealous that we don't have houses that are built like that here. But I also think it's pretty disingenuous to pretend like that is the norm (the OP, not you) - most people have to pay quite a bit to maintain their homes. I would also bet that there are things he's dealt with that he isn't thinking about as being home maintenance. Appliance replacement, for example.
 
2013-04-23 09:30:06 AM  

ronaprhys: untaken_name: Flint Ironstag: Why does that matter? In the UK tile roofs just last. House I grew up in was over 200 years old and still had the original roof. A friend has a 400 year old cottage and still has the original roof. In the twenty years I have owned my house I have spent maybe £500 on maintanance, excluding gardening and redecorating for cosmetic reasons.

Well, I hope you live happily ever after in your magic house.

I don't think that's too odd for some of the really old homes.  Structurally, many of those are built like brick shiathouses.  Of course, he's in the UK, which introduces it's own issues around land ownership and like such as, but still.  Assuming it's built well, I'd rather have an older house (100+ years) than one of the new developments.  They're sturdier and the interior details can be significantly more interesting.


Yep. A lot of homes in the UK are either brick or stone depending on local building materials and were generally built by highly skilled tradesmen, particularly if the house is more than a few decades old. You might have to replace the window frames every couple hundred years but as long as you're careful what you put down the drain and toilet your maintenance costs should be minimal.
 
2013-04-23 09:31:04 AM  

rugman11: Wizard Drongo: What I don't understand (being in Scotland) about these HOA's is how they actually enforce their batshiattery..

I know when you buy your house from the last victim, in the sale contract with the Owner, you have to sign the HOA contract...hence they can get you.
But what would happen if the person selling the house to you, declines to make that a condition;

At that point your contract of sale is purely with the Owner (who DOES have a contract with the HOA), but if you don't ink anything with the HOA, because the current Owner decides "fark em", aside from suing the old Owner once the sale has commenced, in what way can the HOA do shiat against you? You own the house; your contract with the previous owner, having no stupid clause about an HOA, is complete upon transfer of agreed funds etc. so how could the HOA, now a third-party to your contract with the Owner, come in and tell you to move shiat, change that, don't do this?

Any legal eagles in the US clear my ignorance up for me?

I'm actually wondering the same thing.  We just bought our house and there was no HOA contract to sign, but it turns out there is an HOA.  Now, the dues are minimal (like $20/month) and for the parks and walking trails we get it's worth it, and the restrictions aren't particularly onerous (no cars in the yard, no permanent clotheslines, try to keep trash bins out of site, etc.) but there is one big restriction that I'm curious about.  Supposedly, we're supposed to keep fences ten feet from the walking trails, but nobody seems to follow that restriction and I'm hoping it won't come up when we want to fence in our yard.  Honestly, I've seen a bunch of "violations" in the couple of weeks we've been here but nobody seems to really care about it.  It's probably the difference between a 1970s era HOA and a newer HOA.


Short answer is that an HOA is a covenant on the title of the land, not a contract with any owner. So, the sale contract doesn't actually have anything to do with it, which is why you make sure you get a title report that includes the covenant and read the thing before you close. The way the rules are enforced is usually by further encumbering the land - levying fines, then tacking on liens, and if it's bad enough, foreclosing. That's right - the HOA can actually sell your house out from under you if you paint it the wrong color.

As far as getting out of it, you really can't do much individually. But if the HOA stops enforcing parts of it, or fails to collect dues/do business, or basically starts slacking off, then you might be able to weasel out of some of the restrictions. Basically, it's a combination of time+apathy to make a HOA go away. Either that, or everybody who owns property bound by the HOA signs on to trashing the thing. But that can be a problem if the HOA is supposed to do stuff like plow streets or maintain a separate sewage system or whatever.
 
2013-04-23 09:35:57 AM  

untaken_name: Honestly, I'm just jealous that we don't have houses that are built like that here. But I also think it's pretty disingenuous to pretend like that is the norm (the OP, not you) - most people have to pay quite a bit to maintain their homes. I would also bet that there are things he's dealt with that he isn't thinking about as being home maintenance. Appliance replacement, for example.


Heh - appliance replacement can be a pain in the ass as there are no standard size built ins for fridges, ovens, washing machines etc etc as most of the housing stock long predates their invention.
 
2013-04-23 10:28:58 AM  
"Too Many Yard Sales"

That I can understand.  Where I grew up (Guntersville Alabama) made a law limiting yard sales because of people who were "essentially turning their front yards into secondhand stores" and calling it a yard sale to avoid paying a business license.
 
2013-04-23 11:02:45 AM  

Target Builder: untaken_name: Honestly, I'm just jealous that we don't have houses that are built like that here. But I also think it's pretty disingenuous to pretend like that is the norm (the OP, not you) - most people have to pay quite a bit to maintain their homes. I would also bet that there are things he's dealt with that he isn't thinking about as being home maintenance. Appliance replacement, for example.

Heh - appliance replacement can be a pain in the ass as there are no standard size built ins for fridges, ovens, washing machines etc etc as most of the housing stock long predates their invention.


I just helped my parents get a new washer and dryer. Even after measurement the dryer didn't fit because of the bizarre back panel, which I thought would be flat but had a large protrusion.

Then they went and bought a new fridge without asking me and they went and bought a thing that didn't fit through the door...

ronaprhys: Quantum Apostrophe: Flint Ironstag: So what happens to the £650 I save every month? And see post above for maintenance costs.

Which you only save after decades of paying mortgage... You're now old and have few years left to do anything, while I traveled the world while young. Your house ain't a time machine, so sorry. But do enjoy your tile roof in your rainy paradise.

And generally rents keep increasing year after year.  With no tax deductions.  Both renting and buying have their place under the sun.  Buying is a better long term deal, renting is better if you need to be mobile.  Both, however, require the person to be smart, do the math, and make sure their decision fits the circumstances that they're in.


So do municipal taxes and school taxes, generally with no limit on the amount. Rent increases are controlled in Quebec and can be arbitrated. There is no such mechanism in place for your taxes.

Generally, I pay 10$ more rent per month every year. That's easily swamped by the tax increases in Montreal. People *dream* of only getting 120$ yearly increases.

Yes, Quebec is a corrupt, third-world backwater and Montreal is a metropolis of corruption.
 
2013-04-23 11:23:59 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: So do municipal taxes and school taxes, generally with no limit on the amount. Rent increases are controlled in Quebec and can be arbitrated. There is no such mechanism in place for your taxes.


Rent increase controls vary by locality here in the States.  In some places there are limits, in others there aren't.  Typically, if you try to increase it too much, it'll cause folks to move - which means you end up doing work on your own dime (depending on local regulations), paying for advertising, etc.  As such, most rents don't increase too much, but they'll go up $25-50/month each year.

Generally, I pay 10$ more rent per month every year. That's easily swamped by the tax increases in Montreal. People *dream* of only getting 120$ yearly increases.

Tax increases are somewhat controllable - voting and all.  Also, do some investigation before you buy.  If you're in a place that frequently sees tax increases, maybe you don't want to buy there.

Yes, Quebec is a corrupt, third-world backwater and Montreal is a metropolis of corruption.

Yes.  Yes it is.
 
2013-04-23 11:46:37 AM  
Quantum Apostrophe:

So do municipal taxes and school taxes, generally with no limit on the amount. Rent increases are controlled in Quebec and can be arbitrated. There is no such mechanism in place for your taxes.

Generally, I pay 10$ more rent per month every year. That's easily swamped by the tax increases in Montreal. People *dream* of only getting ...


Rent vs Buy is very much "Your Mileage May Vary".

Local taxes, fees, rent control or lack thereof, employment stability, family plans, tennant rights, future earning potential, housing cost vs rental cost, variable vs fixed mortgages and so on all affect whether buying is a good idea and will vary dramatically from area to area and person to person.
 
2013-04-23 01:02:13 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: The fact that if you miss a few payments "your" investment goes bye bye? I'm glad you can predict the future so well though. Oh and try not paying your taxes and see who owns what.


If I miss several payments, then the foreclosure process begins.  If I were to miss several payments in an apartment, then the eviction process begins.  Either way, I'm on the street.  My house is not an investment, it's where I live.  The bottom line is, I bought a house with a total monthly cost that was only slightly higher than what I was paying to rent.  Now, the rent in my old apartment is slightly higher than what I pay for my mortgage.  In less than 15 years I will only need to pay for taxes and insurance, the current total cost of which is around 1/5 of my total monthly payments.  My housing costs are much more stable than they would be if I were renting.

Taxes are not a big deal for me, and would never contemplate not paying them.  I was paying the taxes when I was renting, it was just that the landlord writing the check to the town.

No, I can't predict the future.  But I can say that unless both my wife and I lose our jobs simultaneously, we will not have a problem paying the mortgage.  It is unlikely that one of us will lose our job, almost beyond the realm of possibility that both of us would, and I have trouble imagining a situation in which it would happen at the same time.


Quantum Apostrophe: Um, until you sell, not you? No repairs and maintenance either, a magic house!

What's your point?  Do you think your landlord owns and rents out of the goodness of his heart?  Or does he make money off the rent?  He's not eating the cost of repairs, you're paying for them every month, whether they happen or not.  I'm only paying for them when they do happen, and in most cases I'm only paying for materials.


I don't care what you do for shelter.  Maybe renting is a better deal in Quebec, or a better deal for you because of career or geographic instability, or because you're not equipped to do your own maintenance, or whatever.  What I can tell you is that where I live doesn't have rent control, that I bought near the bottom of both the local housing market and mortgage interest rates, and that it works for me.  If you don't get that everyone isn't in the same living situation as you, I don't know what else to say.
 
2013-04-23 01:16:04 PM  

ronaprhys: untaken_name: Flint Ironstag: Why does that matter? In the UK tile roofs just last. House I grew up in was over 200 years old and still had the original roof. A friend has a 400 year old cottage and still has the original roof. In the twenty years I have owned my house I have spent maybe £500 on maintanance, excluding gardening and redecorating for cosmetic reasons.

Well, I hope you live happily ever after in your magic house.

I don't think that's too odd for some of the really old homes.  Structurally, many of those are built like brick shiathouses.  Of course, he's in the UK, which introduces it's own issues around land ownership and like such as, but still.  Assuming it's built well, I'd rather have an older house (100+ years) than one of the new developments.  They're sturdier and the interior details can be significantly more interesting.


Even modern built, average, houses in the UK have proper tile roofs and are built of brick. The only wood is the roof frame. Basically the exact same construction as the 200 year old house I grew up in. My house was built in 1980. and I bought it twenty years ago. I personally do not know anyone who has ever had to replace their roof. (There must be some, but it's that rare. It is certainly not something anyone will expect to have to do ever. The exception is flat roofs but they're almost always only on budget extensions added on to the house.)
Even when I first bought my monthly mortgage payment was about the same as the monthly rental cost, Even today that's much the same. I just looked up my area on rightmove.co.uk and to rent a house like mine I got a price range of £725 to £800 PCM, and the renter has to pay the property tax here so that doesn't include the tax. I then got a mortgage quote from moneysupermarket.co.uk and got quotes from £770 pcm.  My buildings insurance is about £25 a month.  Of course I had to put in a deposit of £20k, but then I can cash out and get back a much bigger figure. Even if I sell up and start renting I will be in the same position as someone who has always rented except I'll have a large lump sum in my bank account. Free of capital gains tax as well...)
So where does all this "I've save so much money by renting ha ha ha! Sucker!" come from? It's virtually the same at day one and as time goes by renting will go up and up while the mortgage will stay the same and then end in 25 years.
 
2013-04-23 01:19:05 PM  

untaken_name: Flint Ironstag: Why does that matter? In the UK tile roofs just last. House I grew up in was over 200 years old and still had the original roof. A friend has a 400 year old cottage and still has the original roof. In the twenty years I have owned my house I have spent maybe £500 on maintanance, excluding gardening and redecorating for cosmetic reasons.

Well, I hope you live happily ever after in your magic house.


It's just a house. I think from what I've read on fark it is the US that has magic houses that magically need thousands of dollars spent on them every few years to repair something or other.
Property prices in the US are generally far lower than in the UK. I've always assumed that is due to the scarcity of land here but maybe it is the quality and method of construction as well.
 
2013-04-23 01:27:06 PM  

Flint Ironstag: It's just a house. I think from what I've read on fark it is the US that has magic houses that magically need thousands of dollars spent on them every few years to repair something or other.
Property prices in the US are generally far lower than in the UK. I've always assumed that is due to the scarcity of land here but maybe it is the quality and method of construction as well.


You should come visit Quebec. At first glance you'd think we all live in temporary shelters made of cardboard, plastic, glue and wood chips and that our real houses are going to be built later.
/Hint: they're not

ronaprhys: Yes. Yes it is.


Oh, you've been? My condolences. Did your car survive the pavement?
 
2013-04-23 01:44:43 PM  

Flint Ironstag: I've always assumed that is due to the scarcity of land here but maybe it is the quality and method of construction as well.


It's partly cheaper land and better housing availability in the US but also:

New houses are normally timber, which is cheaper as a material and faster to construct. A well built timber house that is well maintained will last a very long time (hundreds of years) but shoddy waterproofing or poor maintenance will dramatically lower that.

The house building skill set is a lot lower than the UK, which drives down wages and the cost of building a house, but can lead to quality issues.


Plumbing - often immigrant workforce and the skill-set is lower.

Electricians - see plumbing.

Carpenters - often basically just a bloke with a saw and hammer.

Roofing, as mentioned before, is often asphalt shingle - very cheap but requires fairly regular replacement.

Depending on location, labor is often provided by undocumented workers, or workers in a very poor position to bargain on wages, who often either don't get paid the agreed rate (wage theft) or are working for below minimum wage on day-rates (http://www.npr.org/2013/04/11/176777498/texas-contractors- say-playing- by-the-rules-doesnt-pay )

Suburbia generally isn't like the UK equivalent. If you're in the suburbs you're normally on farmland that has been redeveloped into a residential only tract of housing with no shops or places of employment on the tract. They're very cheap to construct on but you'll need a car to shop, get to amenities, get to mass transit, get to school and get to work. High streets don't exist in these developments. There might not even be sidewalks so to get to other houses you may need to walk on the road. Older cities and old streetcar suburbs are exceptions to this, but are also normally more expensive.
 
2013-04-23 02:24:52 PM  

Target Builder: Flint Ironstag: I've always assumed that is due to the scarcity of land here but maybe it is the quality and method of construction as well.

It's partly cheaper land and better housing availability in the US but also:

New houses are normally timber, which is cheaper as a material and faster to construct. A well built timber house that is well maintained will last a very long time (hundreds of years) but shoddy waterproofing or poor maintenance will dramatically lower that.

The house building skill set is a lot lower than the UK, which drives down wages and the cost of building a house, but can lead to quality issues.


Plumbing - often immigrant workforce and the skill-set is lower.

Electricians - see plumbing.

Carpenters - often basically just a bloke with a saw and hammer.

Roofing, as mentioned before, is often asphalt shingle - very cheap but requires fairly regular replacement.

Depending on location, labor is often provided by undocumented workers, or workers in a very poor position to bargain on wages, who often either don't get paid the agreed rate (wage theft) or are working for below minimum wage on day-rates (http://www.npr.org/2013/04/11/176777498/texas-contractors- say-playing- by-the-rules-doesnt-pay )

Suburbia generally isn't like the UK equivalent. If you're in the suburbs you're normally on farmland that has been redeveloped into a residential only tract of housing with no shops or places of employment on the tract. They're very cheap to construct on but you'll need a car to shop, get to amenities, get to mass transit, get to school and get to work. High streets don't exist in these developments. There might not even be sidewalks so to get to other houses you may need to walk on the road. Older cities and old streetcar suburbs are exceptions to this, but are also normally more expensive.


We have a lot of immigrant workers as well, usually Poles. But generally they know what they're doing and work hard. Even the cheapest houses here will be brick up to the eaves with a wooden roof A frame. Floor joists will be wood as well but they're totally internal. The actual roof will be tile or slate, which will pretty much last until the end of time. Even a thatched roof should last fifty years plus!

Modern developments almost all have a lot of walking and cycling footpaths, public areas, greens, and often larget developments will have a superstore (Tesco/Asda/Sainsburys) on the edge of the development with good foot/cycle and car access as well as bus routes.
Check out  http://goo.gl/maps/cCSHo this example where a friend of mine lives, or here  http://goo.gl/maps/B2u0i  . No HOA there and yet though it was built maybe twenty years ago it still looks good. The council looks after the roads, cuts the greens etc. The little blue squares are bus stops.
 
2013-04-23 02:33:48 PM  

Flint Ironstag: We have a lot of immigrant workers as well, usually Poles. But generally they know what they're doing and work hard. Even the cheapest houses here will be brick up to the eaves with a wooden roof A frame. Floor joists will be wood as well but they're totally internal. The actual roof will be tile or slate, which will pretty much last until the end of time. Even a thatched roof should last fifty years plus!

Modern developments almost all have a lot of walking and cycling footpaths, public areas, greens, and often larget developments will have a superstore (Tesco/Asda/Sainsburys) on the edge of the development with good foot/cycle and car access as well as bus routes.
Check out  http://goo.gl/maps/cCSHo this example where a friend of mine lives, or here  http://goo.gl/maps/B2u0i  . No HOA there and yet though it was built maybe twenty years ago it still looks good. The council looks after the roads, cuts the greens etc. The little blue squares are bus stops.


If you look at Streetview and see any houses that are white, blue etc they will all be brick underneath, large concrete bricks called breezeblocks, and then plaster on the outside which is painted. My house just about needs painting. Should be around £500 if I get a contractor to do it.
 
2013-04-23 08:20:03 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Should be around £500 if I get a contractor to do it.


Here's one area where I can feel superior. As I live in Texas, I can get my house painted for about $30 and a case of beer. Plus the paint, of course. I just mention it to the guy who mows my lawn.
 
2013-04-23 10:09:13 PM  

untaken_name: Flint Ironstag: Should be around £500 if I get a contractor to do it.

Here's one area where I can feel superior. As I live in Texas, I can get my house painted for about $30 and a case of beer. Plus the paint, of course. I just mention it to the guy who mows my lawn.


I asked a (insert nationality of ridicule in your area) to paint my porch. He quoted me £50 so I said go ahead. When he finished he said "By the way, it's not a Porsche, it's a BMW."

/I'm here all week. Try the veal and tip your waitress.
 
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