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(CNN) NewsFlash American citizen to be tried as an American citizen. Sadly, in 2013, this warrants a news flash   (cnn.com) divider line 492
    More: NewsFlash, American citizens, Boston, Don Lemon, Americans, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Tsarnaev, Boston area  
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11207 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2013 at 2:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-04-22 02:15:04 PM  

ManateeGag: TheShavingofOccam123: AFTER BEING INTERROGATED  BY THE CIA AND OTHER "INTERROGATION" EXPERTS.

Probably without legal counsel present.  And I'm sure they'll wait until he's off all medication, out of critical condition  and in reasonable health before they tortu...er, question him.

are you retarded?


Investigators are going into Tsarnaev's room every few hours to ask questions in the presence of doctors, the source said.

Ill-informed, opinionated and yes, retarded. Yes, I am.

/smack dab in the middle of that Fark.com bell curve
 
2013-04-22 02:15:17 PM  
What the hell else would you try an American citizen as?
 
2013-04-22 02:15:24 PM  

FlashHarry: the kid is guilty as hell, but justice must be served.


The scary part is what it means for the rest of us....

...if the government doesn't have a rock solid case against you, like they do here against this punk, then they'll do whatever they can to paint you as a terrorist so they can try you outside our legal system, and minimize your right to defend yourself.

Scary.
 
2013-04-22 02:15:29 PM  

slayer199: Of course, his defense will blame it on his older brother in an effort to get a reduction.


well...from everything that's been released, it was his older brother that got pissy and started planning this, they younger brother was more of "oh hey, I'll help you bro"
 
2013-04-22 02:15:34 PM  

FarkedOver: Let's hope this is handled at the state level rather than the federal level.


What's wrong with handling it at the federal level?

I doubt MA has any laws against terrorism or murder by weapon of mass destruction that would be required to prosecute this effectively.
 
2013-04-22 02:16:08 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: Charged with using a Weapon of Mass Destruction?

Fusion bomb?  WMD
Home made bomb in a pressure cooker?  Doesn't really seem like a WMD to me.


yeah... i dunno... i mean there were mass casualties, but this would mean that just about any bomber could be charged with this. not that i'm against it, i guess, but it does seem to lump it in with someone with a dirty bomb or sarin canister or something similar.
 
2013-04-22 02:16:31 PM  

ZAZ: Shrugging Atlas

Quoting my post from yesterday's thread:

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.


Ah, thanks for the knowledge.  Sweet christ that's a pretty wide open definition.
 
2013-04-22 02:16:32 PM  

FlashHarry: the kid is guilty as hell, but justice must be served.


A fair trial and a fine hangin'.

slayer199: Of course, his defense will blame it on his older brother in an effort to get a reduction.


Of course, if they can only get his brother to testify on his behalf.  Otherwise, hey bud, you're 19.  That should be old enough to know that you're not supposed to blow up the Boston Marathon.

Seriously, though, what were they trying to achieve?  The Chechens don't have a beef with the US, or even Boston.  They're not even Canadians/Yankees/the entire NFL fans.
 
2013-04-22 02:16:35 PM  

FlashHarry: plus, he'll likely get the DP if he's convicted on federal charges, yes?


Phrasing!
 
2013-04-22 02:16:36 PM  

skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Let's hope this is handled at the state level rather than the federal level.

There is quite literally zero chance of that happening.


Sadly, that's a fact.  I'm sure he is being charged with some P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act crap, which is why I'd rather let MA handle this.
 
2013-04-22 02:16:45 PM  

Vodka Zombie: What the hell else would you try an American citizen as?


sometimes we don't try them at all...

mycatbirdseat.com
 
2013-04-22 02:16:54 PM  

ManateeGag:He took the oath in september.

Ah, thank you.

Warlordtrooper: Does it matter? The military is not for things inside the us


Subby said he was a citizen (not a legal alien as I had thought), and I was wondering if that was really the case.  Unless I'm wrong, and I well could be since IANAL, I was under the impression that citizens and non-citizens were treated differently in the law.  I'm not implying he ought to be given a military trial---the question was more a matter of what KIND of civilian trial should he get?  Since he's officially a citizen that negates the question anyway.
 
2013-04-22 02:16:57 PM  

slayer199: He should be tried as an American citizen.

Of course, his defense will blame it on his older brother in an effort to get a reduction.


How about this: My older brother was the mastermind of the bomb plot and trigger man in the shooting. He threatened me with my life if I didn't go along with it. I was hiding out because I was scared and didn't know who to trust.
 
2013-04-22 02:16:57 PM  
USA USA USA!
 
2013-04-22 02:16:57 PM  

vudukungfu: Really, subby
CNN?

Have we forgiven them so soon?


/too soon, I say.
//too soon.


Perhaps he/she was being ironic.
 
2013-04-22 02:17:05 PM  
This is such an open and shut case that we can't entrust it to the courts!

/ this is what some Americans actually believe about accused terrorists
 
2013-04-22 02:17:05 PM  

tinyarena: FlashHarry: plus, he'll likely get the DP if he's convicted on federal charges, yes?

Yes, a conviction on using 'weapons of mass destruction' could result in the DP
We shall see.

Personally, I wish they'd just torched the boat, and had a few weapons malfunctions.
I would make a truly awful policeman.  But my beat would be quite
so quite

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-22 02:17:16 PM  
Glad to hear. They are doing the right thing.

This is why, even though you may disagree with some of the things Obama Admin has done, such as drone policy, etc., you still vote for the guy who most closely resembles your views.
 
2013-04-22 02:17:22 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: Kibbler: A dozen rightwing pundits and countless rightwing bloggers just fell to their knees and thanked the Lord, for now they have something to rage about for the next five years.

Five?  Christ, if the guy "only" gets life in prison we'll be hearing about it for decades.

"It's too dangerous to keep him in prison.  What if Al Qaeda tries to spring him.  What if he escapes?!  WOOGA BOOGA!!"


That is all he is going to get. I'm pretty sure he will plead out and give up any information he has in return for life.
 
2013-04-22 02:17:26 PM  

gilgigamesh: FarkedOver: Let's hope this is handled at the state level rather than the federal level.

What's wrong with handling it at the federal level?

I doubt MA has any laws against terrorism or murder by weapon of mass destruction that would be required to prosecute this effectively.


Murder in the first degree.  4 Counts.  Life no parole. Ta-da!
 
2013-04-22 02:17:31 PM  

skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Let's hope this is handled at the state level rather than the federal level.

There is quite literally zero chance of that happening.


I wouldn't say zero.  Couldn't the state choose to prosecute when the feds are done with him for state level crimes?  If he somehow is found not guilty of the fed charges, couldn't the state indict?  Even go through with it, just to have the sentence in place if he's ever given federal parole?  For example, the murder of the MIT police officer.  I suspect he won't be charged with that by the feds, but the state could if they so chose.
 
2013-04-22 02:17:31 PM  
That honestly seems like very few charges and skips over a lot of other things they did.
 
2013-04-22 02:17:40 PM  

FarkedOver: skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Let's hope this is handled at the state level rather than the federal level.

There is quite literally zero chance of that happening.

Sadly, that's a fact.  I'm sure he is being charged with some P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act crap, which is why I'd rather let MA handle this.


He's probably gonna be charged as a mass murdering terrorist because he's a farking mass murdering terrorist.
 
2013-04-22 02:17:44 PM  

FlashHarry: the kid is guilty as hell, but justice must be served.


Right.  That's what being TRIED in COURT means... Justice.

Or, we can tear him apart in the streets to feed the hungry mob.
 
2013-04-22 02:17:49 PM  
All of you third world tinpot dictator types wishing for the death penalty for the guy. Most civilized countries have abolished the death penalty. And then there's the good ol' USA.
 
2013-04-22 02:18:09 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Treygreen13: Shrugging Atlas: Charged with using a Weapon of Mass Destruction?

Fusion bomb?  WMD
Home made bomb in a pressure cooker?  Doesn't really seem like a WMD to me.

I think the biggest problem with the WMD moniker is that it stands so strongly opposed to the law of conservation of mass.

Weapons of mass conversion.


Weapon of mass convection.
 
2013-04-22 02:18:24 PM  

gilgigamesh: I doubt MA has any laws against terrorism or murder by weapon of mass destruction that would be required to prosecute this effectively.


"Terroristes shall be punished by Exposure to the Crowd and shall be dragged through the Township by Mule and pelted with Foodstuffs in the presence of no fewer than six Clergymen and the Governor" - MA General Law still on the books from 1677
 
2013-04-22 02:18:39 PM  

FlashHarry: plus, he'll likely get the DP if he's convicted on federal charges, yes?


I can think of two mitigating factors. 1. His age. He's old enough to execute, but young enough that a jury might consider that. 2. The fact that it seems he was heavily influenced by his brother. Every single other aspect of the case are aggravating factors, though. It may be possible to cop a plea for life if he talks.
 
2013-04-22 02:18:40 PM  
If he were a foreign combatant, and could show that terrorism (which is a type of guerrilla warfare) is a legitimate tactic, he would not face the death penalty except for a showing of war crimes.

As an American citizen, he's going to get either (a) the death penalty or (c) biting down the pillow in Cellbock C until his anus collapses.
 
2013-04-22 02:18:58 PM  

skullkrusher: Shrugging Atlas: Charged with using a Weapon of Mass Destruction?

Fusion bomb?  WMD
Home made bomb in a pressure cooker?  Doesn't really seem like a WMD to me.

I think any bomb is considered a WMD. Not to be confused with the WMDs that Saddam moved to Syria


So you're saying some bombs aren't WMD except when it's convenient to call them so? Well, which is it?
 
2013-04-22 02:19:00 PM  
Good.  terrorists need to be treated as the common criminals that they are.  Don't elevate them to some special kind of special super special enemy warrior status.  "Terror networks" should be treated as the criminal enterprises that are and prosecuted under RICO with the all the jail time and confiscation of personal assets that RICO allows.
 
2013-04-22 02:19:00 PM  

BlueGreenSwirly: Good point, subby. As an Islamic terrorist, he should be declared an enemy combatant.


as a christian terrorist, should eric rudolph have been declared an enemy combatant?
 
2013-04-22 02:19:03 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.


I have an Attorney General-approved potato gun.  Max magazine capacity of 7 potatoes, no folding stock, forehand grip, or bayonet mount.
 
2013-04-22 02:19:04 PM  

Eirik: skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Let's hope this is handled at the state level rather than the federal level.

There is quite literally zero chance of that happening.

I wouldn't say zero.  Couldn't the state choose to prosecute when the feds are done with him for state level crimes?  If he somehow is found not guilty of the fed charges, couldn't the state indict?  Even go through with it, just to have the sentence in place if he's ever given federal parole?  For example, the murder of the MIT police officer.  I suspect he won't be charged with that by the feds, but the state could if they so chose.


I'd imagine that MA could try him on charges in addition to the Fed charges but it certainly won't be in lieu of Fed charges. I am pretty sure double jeopardy would apply if he were first acquitted federally and then retried locally for the same crimes
 
2013-04-22 02:19:12 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: Charged with using a Weapon of Mass Destruction?

Fusion bomb?  WMD
Home made bomb in a pressure cooker?  Doesn't really seem like a WMD to me.


Explains a lot.  9 years too late, but I learned something today.  We can invade ourselves and implement regime change!  The war machine rolls on!
 
2013-04-22 02:19:21 PM  

Jument: FlashHarry: the kid is guilty as hell, but justice must be served.

This. No matter how heinous the charges or how solid the evidence, his rights must not be violated. Anyone who suggests otherwise basically hates America  doesn't care about the law or our constitution.


you were just fine without the hyperbole.
 
2013-04-22 02:19:31 PM  

skullkrusher: Shrugging Atlas: Charged with using a Weapon of Mass Destruction?

Fusion bomb?  WMD
Home made bomb in a pressure cooker?  Doesn't really seem like a WMD to me.

I think any bomb is considered a WMD. Not to be confused with the WMDs that Saddam moved to Syria


So Saddam had all kinds of WMD then since he had explosives.  I knew it!
 
2013-04-22 02:19:47 PM  

tinyarena: Personally, I wish they'd just torched the boat, and had a few weapons malfunctions.
I would make a truly awful policeman. But my beat would be quite
so quite


Part of justice is to let him get his story out. We need to know why people do terrible things so we have a better way to look out for it later on.

So while he is very much one of the bombers, he may not have been the one to go "oh hey, let's bomb some people that have been good to me over the years...because...you know, bombs"
 
2013-04-22 02:19:51 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: ZAZ: Shrugging Atlas

Quoting my post from yesterday's thread:

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Ah, thanks for the knowledge.  Sweet christ that's a pretty wide open definition.


I suppose most of the characters in Big Bang Theory could be arrested for WMD possession.

/kind of ironic, considering Iraq didn't have any
 
2013-04-22 02:19:52 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: Charged with using a Weapon of Mass Destruction?

Fusion bomb?  WMD
Home made bomb in a pressure cooker?  Doesn't really seem like a WMD to me.


Yes, that's what I thought too. Seems like someone at the US Attorney's Office is trying to stretch the definition to sex up the charges. Once upon a time it was Nuclear/Biological/Chemical (NBC) to cover anything that wasn't conventional explosives. Only the Soviets called it WMD and even they meant it the same way we did. But now you call it "Mass Destruction" and suddenly a large black powder or fertilizer bomb qualifies. No, it doesn't.

As for charging this guy, it's absolutely the right thing to do. He's here legally, with permanent residential status. For us to treat him differently is to turn our back on the Bill of Rights. We don't have lynch mobs anymore, no matter how loathsome and shiatty the perpetrator may be. To do otherwise is to shame our constitution and make us no better than the dictators we accuse as oppressive tyrants. We got laws and due process and WhatNot, folks. It protects the innocent and it also protects America as a nation when we can show, "yes, this guy's not a political prisoner, but a shiatbag and here's the evidence."
 
2013-04-22 02:19:56 PM  
Nice charges. Kinda generic to avoid a long drawn out case, but decent.
Next Week, George W. Bush gets charged for using weapons of mass destruction(Americas military) against the World. Canadas republican Prime Minister offers asylum for Bush and that comes with all the soggy animal goo covered fries he can eat.
 
2013-04-22 02:19:57 PM  

skullkrusher: HotWingConspiracy: Phony GOP Americans must be inconsolable.

Oh, they're certainly upset. Question is, more or less upset than Fark Lefties who learned that these two jokers weren't bombing for Jeebus?


I thought people speculated more that it was some horrifying version of patriotism rather than religious fanaticism.

Either way, treating them as criminals makes more sense than treating them as some sort of organized armed force.
 
2013-04-22 02:20:10 PM  

Matthew Keene: All of you third world tinpot dictator types wishing for the death penalty for the guy. Most civilized countries have abolished the death penalty. And then there's the good ol' USA.


If anything, the death penalty is more humane. This kid will never again know life outside of a cage. A cage filled with people who want to rape and kill him.
 
2013-04-22 02:20:11 PM  

FlashHarry: plus, he'll likely get the DP if he's convicted on federal charges, yes?


I'd rather see him spend the next 60 years in one of these.

sometimesinteresting.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-22 02:20:13 PM  

FlashHarry: BlueGreenSwirly: Good point, subby. As an Islamic terrorist, he should be declared an enemy combatant.

as a christian terrorist, should eric rudolph have been declared an enemy combatant?


He DOES have a dark complexion, but he's still white, so....No.
 
2013-04-22 02:20:36 PM  
Kid's only leverage is to give information about his brother in exchange to avoid the needle.
 
2013-04-22 02:20:49 PM  

FarkedOver: gilgigamesh: FarkedOver: Let's hope this is handled at the state level rather than the federal level.

What's wrong with handling it at the federal level?

I doubt MA has any laws against terrorism or murder by weapon of mass destruction that would be required to prosecute this effectively.

Murder in the first degree.  4 Counts.  Life no parole. Ta-da!


Eh, I am as libby a lib as it gets, and I don't see the problem.

People get tried on federal charges all the time. Mail fraud, wire fraud, bank robbery, drug importation, RICO... its pretty commonplace. I don't see why its a problem here.
 
2013-04-22 02:21:03 PM  

CruJones: He should be tried by Jack Bauer.


THIS. THIS. THISSY THIS THIS.
 
2013-04-22 02:21:04 PM  

sodomizer: If he were a foreign combatant, and could show that terrorism (which is a type of guerrilla warfare) is a legitimate tactic, he would not face the death penalty except for a showing of war crimes.

As an American citizen, he's going to get either (a) the death penalty or (c) biting down the pillow in Cellbock C until his anus collapses.


The fact that you of all people posted that made me lul on the inside.
 
2013-04-22 02:21:18 PM  

skullkrusher: FarkedOver: skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Let's hope this is handled at the state level rather than the federal level.

There is quite literally zero chance of that happening.

Sadly, that's a fact.  I'm sure he is being charged with some P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act crap, which is why I'd rather let MA handle this.

He's probably gonna be charged as a mass murdering terrorist because he's a farking mass murdering terrorist.


Not saying he isn't a terrorist.  I just don't want him executed for his crimes.  I want him incarcerated.
 
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