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(Tech Crunch)   Our long national nightmare may be over: Microsoft rumored to bring back the Start button   (techcrunch.com) divider line 82
    More: PSA, Start Button, Microsoft, Windows  
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2013-04-22 01:49:34 PM
The only way M$ can save itself is to release Windows7 and call it Windows9, and Ballmer has to commit seppuku for the abortion that is Windows8.
 
2013-04-22 01:54:22 PM
Man, tech news profilerates so slowly on Fark.

/Heard this last week.
 
2013-04-22 02:10:36 PM
\Ballmer has to commit seppuku for the abortion that is Windows8.

Make that a pay-per-view event and MS will bring in billions.
 
2013-04-22 02:13:58 PM

NightOwl2255: The only way M$ can save itself is to release Windows7 and call it Windows9, and Ballmer has to commit seppuku for the abortion that is Windows8.


"Abortion"? Really? Really.
 
2013-04-22 02:14:33 PM
I know a few IT Managers and CIOs that just got their environments updated to Windows 7.   When I asked them about Windows 8, they laughed.  They wouldn't implement it because of the retraining costs.

Here's where it gets interesting.  2 of the 5 guys I know in a position to make those decisions told me that they'd seriously look at Desktop Linux if Microsoft didn't revert to the Start Menu and Desktop.  Why?  Because if they have to spend the money to retrain, why not spend it on something that is significantly less expensive than Microsoft's products.

Now I'm not sure if they actually would move to a version of desktop linux, but you have to believe that a few of them threw that at their Microsoft reps as a threat.
 
2013-04-22 02:15:29 PM

slayer199: I know a few IT Managers and CIOs that just got their environments updated to Windows 7.   When I asked them about Windows 8, they laughed.  They wouldn't implement it because of the retraining costs.

Here's where it gets interesting.  2 of the 5 guys I know in a position to make those decisions told me that they'd seriously look at Desktop Linux if Microsoft didn't revert to the Start Menu and Desktop.  Why?  Because if they have to spend the money to retrain, why not spend it on something that is significantly less expensive than Microsoft's products.

Now I'm not sure if they actually would move to a version of desktop linux, but you have to believe that a few of them threw that at their Microsoft reps as a threat.


Our department implemented it with... zero retraining. None was needed.
 
2013-04-22 02:16:44 PM
daily-grind.net

Can they please get rid of this thing?  I can't count how many times I've died because of it trying to use Ctrl to crouch.  Does anyone actually use this button?
 
2013-04-22 02:17:46 PM
I almost never use the start menu on windows 7. My most clicked on items are pinned to my task bar, in my rainmeter quick launch or open when I double click on the correct file type. The only time I bother to use the start button is when I need to search for a specific file I have lost track of.  I don't often lose my files though i'm somewhat obsessive about keeping my PC organized.
 
2013-04-22 02:19:03 PM

dehehn: [daily-grind.net image 500x375]

Can they please get rid of this thing?  I can't count how many times I've died because of it trying to use Ctrl to crouch.  Does anyone actually use this button?


All the time. It's been there how many years? Maybe you just suck.
 
2013-04-22 02:19:16 PM
I'm running an eval of Windows 8 on a desktop now.  Can't say I'm a huge fan.  But unless I have a super special just for me copy, you can still get your old desktop with the Start button.

My biggest complaint is that I can't update the chipset drivers and BIOS with it.  And it is hence very, VERY crashy with even slightly old hardware.
 
2013-04-22 02:22:45 PM

dehehn: [daily-grind.net image 500x375]

Can they please get rid of this thing?  I can't count how many times I've died because of it trying to use Ctrl to crouch.  Does anyone actually use this button?


I use it all the time, especially when it comes to launching programs.  Just tap the button, start type 'Word', or whatever, and hit Enter.
 
2013-04-22 02:23:40 PM

LasersHurt: Our department implemented it with... zero retraining. None was needed.


The depends what type of organization you are.  Upgrading 130k desktops/laptops is one thing.  Upgrading 5 is quite another.  And Windows 7 is the first OS Microsoft has kicked since XP that is stable and offers something for corporations.  Windows 8 offers nothing but some incremental improvements and an interface that frankly sucks.
 
2013-04-22 02:25:14 PM
I'm holding my breath until they bring on the Any key.
 
2013-04-22 02:26:35 PM
grumpycat.jpg
 
2013-04-22 02:26:42 PM

dehehn: [daily-grind.net image 500x375]

Can they please get rid of this thing?  I can't count how many times I've died because of it trying to use Ctrl to crouch.  Does anyone actually use this button?


"Windows Key"-D will minimize all windows and take you back to the desktop

"Windows Key"-L will lock your screen

I'm sure there are others and those are easily mapped to other key combos, but I use those two on a regular basis
 
2013-04-22 02:27:06 PM

gingerjet: LasersHurt: Our department implemented it with... zero retraining. None was needed.

The depends what type of organization you are.  Upgrading 130k desktops/laptops is one thing.  Upgrading 5 is quite another.  And Windows 7 is the first OS Microsoft has kicked since XP that is stable and offers something for corporations.  Windows 8 offers nothing but some incremental improvements and an interface that frankly sucks.


I like Win 8 and have no problems with it, but if you have a large number of units on Win 7, and everything's going well, I probably wouldn't bother going to 8. I think it's fine, but for whatever reason the Metro UI confuses and terrifies and angers people, even though it can be largely ignored. I don't think it's going away, but it's still best to wait it out.

And who knows, this next "Blue" update might take care of a lot of the worries.
 
2013-04-22 02:27:41 PM
The start button merely hides the more blatant UI disaster that is the interface formerly known as MetroUI.

Are they killing the rest of tifka MetroUI?  Because it is everywhere you interact with the OS.  Click one thing that isn't directly tied to something written by someone who hasn't drunk the win8 cool aid and suddenly your entire desktop disappears and is replaced with only enough information to fit on every smartphone (as if you can call a winphone "smart").

Putting a start button is only the first of many steps needed to bury Metro.  They are likely going to have plenty of time as Google supposedly has different advertising schemes for the desktop and android, and really has no interest on putting android on the desktop.

/"upgraded" from xp when told the $40 offer was transferable (unlike OEM licenses)
// like the shadows of DX10&11.
/// will stay with Linux (for non-gaming).  Wine isn't ready for gaming, windows still isn't ready for the internet.
 
2013-04-22 02:28:01 PM

dehehn: [daily-grind.net image 500x375]

Can they please get rid of this thing?  I can't count how many times I've died because of it trying to use Ctrl to crouch.  Does anyone actually use this button?


If you use shortcut keys then that is one of the most used shortcut keys in windows.  One example would be windows key + 1, which would open the 1st program on your taskbar.  I try not to touch a mouse unless necessary so Windows 8 wasn't much of a change for me personally.
 
2013-04-22 02:28:07 PM

LasersHurt: NightOwl2255: The only way M$ can save itself is to release Windows7 and call it Windows9, and Ballmer has to commit seppuku for the abortion that is Windows8.

"Abortion"? Really? Really.


Really.
 
2013-04-22 02:28:53 PM

NeoCortex42: dehehn: [daily-grind.net image 500x375]

Can they please get rid of this thing?  I can't count how many times I've died because of it trying to use Ctrl to crouch.  Does anyone actually use this button?

I use it all the time, especially when it comes to launching programs.  Just tap the button, start type 'Word', or whatever, and hit Enter.


The only thing I really use it for is to open 'computer' or go to desktop (win+e or win+d).  Sometimes I'll use win+m for a boss key.
 
2013-04-22 02:29:03 PM

kimwim: I'm holding my breath until they bring on the Any key.


3.bp.blogspot.com

I see "Pig Up" and "Ka-tarl" ....
 
2013-04-22 02:32:16 PM
Start button really isn't that big a deal for me. But if they ditch the touchscreen interface, and give me some compelling reason to switch other than "It loads faster", and I'll....consider it.
 
2013-04-22 02:33:10 PM

RexTalionis: Man, tech news profilerates so slowly on Fark.

/Heard this last week.


I also read of this rumour last week.
 
2013-04-22 02:33:20 PM
In the popular imagination, Microsoft seems to be flailing. In reality, I'd wager they're right on track, compromises and all.

If the track they want to be on is the one that continues to put Windows 8 adoption rates lagging well behind Vista....

gingerjet: Windows 8 offers nothing but some incremental improvements and an interface that frankly sucks.


Windows 8 in combination with Windows Server 2012 offers a few corporate goodies, particularly through Group Policy improvements, but, yea.... it's not nearly enough to offset the completely pointless touch-based interface you're forced to hand out to a group of people who spend 99% of their workday at a keyboard.

We're in the process of migrating to Server 2012 in the datacenter, but Windows 8 has been completely written off. And if a proper desktop UI doesn't make it into the next major release, I can honestly see us pushing out a combination BYOD/thin client policy instead of refreshing PCs next time around. There's no way I'm refreshing people into the Metro disaster.
 
2013-04-22 02:35:45 PM

skozlaw: In the popular imagination, Microsoft seems to be flailing. In reality, I'd wager they're right on track, compromises and all.

If the track they want to be on is the one that continues to put Windows 8 adoption rates lagging well behind Vista....


Begs the question - Poor sales because it's bad, bad because of poor sales, round and round we reason.
 
2013-04-22 02:35:46 PM
I read that initially as Windows 3.1 and had a serious flashback, man...
 
2013-04-22 02:36:42 PM

dehehn: [daily-grind.net image 500x375]

Can they please get rid of this thing?  I can't count how many times I've died because of it trying to use Ctrl to crouch.  Does anyone actually use this button?


Win-L to lock my computer.  I use it all the time when I step away from my desk.
 
2013-04-22 02:36:50 PM
I wish everyone would quit the biatching and just install Classic Shell...

Personally, my Windows 8 machine works great ...just ignore the "Duplo Blocks" interface and your fine.
 
2013-04-22 02:37:55 PM

LasersHurt: [Metro] can be largely ignored


If your users don't need to do much with their computer and you put all their shortcuts on the desktop and teach them a bunch of keyboard shortcuts and everybody who works on the computer uses the run dialog to launch everything else....

Generally when I think of a quality interface the most compelling argument in its favor that leaps to mind isn't "it can be largely ignored".
 
2013-04-22 02:38:22 PM

dehehn: [daily-grind.net image 500x375]

Can they please get rid of this thing?  I can't count how many times I've died because of it trying to use Ctrl to crouch.  Does anyone actually use this button?


static.ddmcdn.com
If it means that much to you you can remove the key.

/or just disable the windows key functionality in windows.
//or just learn not to club your keyboard like a caveman while playing games.
 
2013-04-22 02:39:41 PM
Window Key + X is by far the best new shortcut in Windows 8.
 
2013-04-22 02:41:01 PM

skozlaw: LasersHurt: [Metro] can be largely ignored

If your users don't need to do much with their computer and you put all their shortcuts on the desktop and teach them a bunch of keyboard shortcuts and everybody who works on the computer uses the run dialog to launch everything else....

Generally when I think of a quality interface the most compelling argument in its favor that leaps to mind isn't "it can be largely ignored".


Generally I don't think of myself as "not doing much" with my system, either. And don't be obtuse, nobody is saying that's the "most compelling argument in it's favor."
 
2013-04-22 02:41:06 PM

LasersHurt: Begs the question - Poor sales because it's bad, bad because of poor sales, round and round we reason.


Who said it was bad because it was selling poorly? Before you, I mean.
 
2013-04-22 02:42:22 PM
Good, pressing the Windows Key is sooooooo hard.

Seriously...the only time I use the "Start" button on the older OS's is when a ps/2 keyboard is trashed so I used the mouse navigate to the shutdown option, otherwise I only use the Windows key to bring up the Start Menu.
/guess that's why I don't get the Win8 outrage.
 
2013-04-22 02:43:06 PM

LasersHurt: And don't be obtuse, nobody is saying that's the "most compelling argument in it's favor."


Fine, the last time we had this argument you challenged me to lay out explicit examples of problems it actually caused me through the process of actually using it and I did. Seven, IIRC. Maybe six, I can't remember exactly.

So instead of just your usual generic Microsoft whoring, why don't you try and explain to those of us who don't care for it what you think we're missing that you're seeing?
 
2013-04-22 02:43:13 PM

skozlaw: LasersHurt: Begs the question - Poor sales because it's bad, bad because of poor sales, round and round we reason.

Who said it was bad because it was selling poorly? Before you, I mean.


You? It's a major feature in every argument you've made against it on Fark. You're always telling me how it's a failure because of low sales.
 
2013-04-22 02:43:29 PM
Any "get off my lawn" Farkers using a mod to keep the Windows 3.1 Program Manager alive on Windows 7?
 
2013-04-22 02:44:26 PM

skozlaw: LasersHurt: [Metro] can be largely ignored

If your users don't need to do much with their computer and you put all their shortcuts on the desktop and teach them a bunch of keyboard shortcuts and everybody who works on the computer uses the run dialog to launch everything else....

Generally when I think of a quality interface the most compelling argument in its favor that leaps to mind isn't "it can be largely ignored".


Is there something wrong with clicking the bottom left corner and then selecting the program you want to open from the start screen?
 
2013-04-22 02:45:24 PM

skozlaw: LasersHurt: And don't be obtuse, nobody is saying that's the "most compelling argument in it's favor."

Fine, the last time we had this argument you challenged me to lay out explicit examples of problems it actually caused me through the process of actually using it and I did. Seven, IIRC. Maybe six, I can't remember exactly.

So instead of just your usual generic Microsoft whoring, why don't you try and explain to those of us who don't care for it what you think we're missing that you're seeing?


I'm not going to bother. If you recall, last time I THANKed you for actually answering the question with specifics.

I don't care if you don't like the OS. I care that you're an asshole about it, and I care that most of your arguments against it are hollow and trite, and that you need to show up in EVERY single MS thread to talk about how it's a miserable failure of an OS.
 
2013-04-22 02:46:46 PM

dehehn: [daily-grind.net image 500x375]

Can they please get rid of this thing?  I can't count how many times I've died because of it trying to use Ctrl to crouch.  Does anyone actually use this button?


Given that  ALL MODERN GAMES detect and properly map the key (ie: don't kill your fullscreen game), I'm just going to call this one a troll or an old fogey who hasn't played a game on the PC in over 10 years.
 
2013-04-22 02:46:59 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: can you provide one logical argument as to why I would want to turn my PC into a tablet?


Do you know anything at all about Windows 8, other than that the Metro interface exists?

I use my desktop with 3 monitors with Windows 8 all-day, every day. It is nothing like a tablet, at all.
 
2013-04-22 02:51:52 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: can you provide one logical argument as to why I would want to turn my PC into a tablet?


Wow would want to do something like that?
 
2013-04-22 02:55:28 PM

Wholesale Ass: HindiDiscoMonster: can you provide one logical argument as to why I would want to turn my PC into a tablet?

Wow would want to do something like that?


Who?
 
2013-04-22 02:56:53 PM

Donnchadha: "Windows Key"-D will minimize all windows and take you back to the desktop


To be that guy, Windows+D just shows the desktop - it doesn't minimize all windows. Slight difference.

Windows + M minimizes all windows.

The key difference is the behaviour of modal dialogs.
 
2013-04-22 02:56:53 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: LasersHurt: HindiDiscoMonster: can you provide one logical argument as to why I would want to turn my PC into a tablet?

Do you know anything at all about Windows 8, other than that the Metro interface exists?

I use my desktop with 3 monitors with Windows 8 all-day, every day. It is nothing like a tablet, at all.

If the UI is not functional for me, it doesn't matter what is under the hood... that would be like saying: This car has all these whizbang features, BUT... the steering wheel is on the passenger side, and the gas and brake are on the driver side, and the dashboard controls are in the back seat.

It may not be under the hood, but the UI is.


I have no idea what you are saying. The OS transforms it into a tablet? Whether I know it or not? Oh my god, have I been stealth tableted?

All of this work I've been doing, it's all a lie? These last few months are a sham of a mockery of a flim-flam of 2 shams.

/I really don't understand your meaning, snark aside. What are you asking me to defend? I have no loss of function on my computer.
 
2013-04-22 02:57:07 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: Wholesale Ass: HindiDiscoMonster: can you provide one logical argument as to why I would want to turn my PC into a tablet?

Wow would want to do something like that?

did you mean to say "why"?

if so: I wouldn't
if not: I don't understand the question.


I am assuming you are referring to what you think upgrading to Windows 8 might be like.
 
2013-04-22 03:00:26 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: Wholesale Ass: Wholesale Ass: HindiDiscoMonster: can you provide one logical argument as to why I would want to turn my PC into a tablet?

Wow would want to do something like that?

Who?

ok, that makes sense too... and no, I cannot think of anyone who would... other than LasersHurt apparently, which would explain the poor sales.


Well, I upgraded to Windows 8 on a PC and it is not like a tablet at all.
 
2013-04-22 03:03:50 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: so, willfully obtuse, or just dumb?


You? You seem really earnest, so I have to go with Dumb.

/I literally make a living with tablets, you dink, and I also can use Windows 8 so I know it's not a tablet.
 
2013-04-22 03:03:52 PM

LasersHurt: I'm not going to bother [explaining the positive aspects].


Surprise, surprise. I give you a link to a usability study by a long-standing expert in the field.... you just dismiss it like he's nobody. I give you a series of real-world examples where it bogged me or my co-workers down after you ask for it.... you just ignore it. I ask you to explain to the rest of us why you like it, you refuse.

I have no idea why you choose to spend so much time defending Microsoft on this particular subject, but the least you could do is a good job of it if you're going to bother.
 
2013-04-22 03:05:48 PM

RexTalionis: Man, tech news profilerates so slowly on Fark.

/Heard this last week.


I heard it on fark a week ago... The mods like green lighting duplicate stories...
 
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