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(Fox News)   And here we go: a CUNY professor is complaining about "too much force" being used against the Tsarnaev brothers   (nation.foxnews.com ) divider line 195
    More: Stupid, Douglas A-20 Havoc, Boston Police Department  
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8276 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2013 at 2:49 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



195 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-04-22 01:21:48 PM  
I wonder what his feeling was for the other recent domestic terrorists...
 
2013-04-22 01:22:53 PM  

zulius: I wonder what his feeling was for the other recent domestic terrorists...


Strong enough to have changed his gender, apparently.
 
2013-04-22 01:27:02 PM  
That's not a "Y".
 
2013-04-22 01:27:07 PM  
Oh, an opinion from a cunning linguist. Great.
 
2013-04-22 01:29:00 PM  
So what? I'm sure if you call a dozen random college professors you could find one who says the real dangerous alien come from Jupiter's moons. This proves what, exactly?
 
2013-04-22 01:29:08 PM  
Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/
 
2013-04-22 01:29:31 PM  
Really?

I'm usually one to jump all over abuse of force...but in this case, they were wanted for a bombing that killed 3 innocent individuals and wounded or maimed over 100 more.  They killed a cop, they carjacked another individual...and led police on a chase.  They were clearly armed and dangerous.  Terrorism or not, the use of force was in this case was completely justified.
 
2013-04-22 01:30:57 PM  
From original article: I hope we will all be witnesses at the Internal Affairs investigation about undue force.

I'm all for training people to avoid excessive force.  But we can't fault someone for extra killing someone who they had very good reason to think might try to kill them.  Develop some kinda training to try to avoid it, but if a guy runs to the store to get more bullets to fire at a corpse that tried to kill him 5 minutes ago I say give him $20 and another 10 minutes.
 
2013-04-22 01:33:57 PM  

zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/


okay, re-read it. It was she says but I agree with everything but the excessive force issue.
Still after any incident like this there should be an investigation and those photos never should have been published
 
2013-04-22 01:35:29 PM  
I bet we could find, say, a banker who thinks that the police should have helped them defend themselves.

That's the funny thing about Free Speech and things like the internet- you can find anyone to say anything on almost any topic.
 
2013-04-22 01:40:14 PM  

zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/


Not really. FTFA: This said, the mortuary pictures of the older brother of the two are extremely disturbing, raising questions as to whether the Boston Police Department captured him with too much force.

She's saying we used too much force to "capture" (i.e. kill) the guy that already murdered a cop, and was shooting and lobbing bombs at pursuing officers.

And his brother was the one who ultimately used the force, by running him over.

/All-in-all, it's a pretty worthless article
 
2013-04-22 01:42:41 PM  
Plenty of these idiots posting on Fark already
 
2013-04-22 01:44:31 PM  

Tatsuma: Plenty of these idiots posting on Fark already


I passed calculus once!
 
2013-04-22 01:45:54 PM  
At my home, to at least offset this, we turn off all media

Because TV is a nckname, and nicknames are for friends.
 
2013-04-22 01:46:11 PM  
City University of New York Professor Ruth

I immediately went 'Please not a Jew please not a Jew

O'Brien

Score!

While terrorism is about causing fear - again an emotion - we do have to account for our conduct in these extreme times when adrenaline is running high.

At my home, to at least offset this, we turn off all media.  I couldn't believe my sons' explanation when they got home about one brother running over the other one.  So I found a place to read about this, and I recoiled after seeing the picture.  Still, we all know that terrorism, like crime, "leads if it bleeds" with the established media.  The established media fixates on the domestic-violence or crime-of-passion aspect of terrorism, and it, too, inculcates more fear in all of us.



What an idiot. 'I didn't follow the news or everything that happened, but clearly the police used too much force!'
 
2013-04-22 01:49:14 PM  
Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.
 
2013-04-22 01:51:30 PM  

vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.


9/10 simple, effective.
 
2013-04-22 01:52:14 PM  
You mis-spelled "coont."
 
2013-04-22 01:52:34 PM  

vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.


ct.fra.bz
 
2013-04-22 01:52:41 PM  
so-called "liberal" here. i think the force used was appropriate. the guy was carrying shiatloads of weapons and IEDs.

that being said, he is an AMERICAN CITIZEN and should be tried in a civilian court and afforded all the rights due to him.
 
2013-04-22 01:53:19 PM  

FlashHarry: that being said, he is an AMERICAN CITIZEN and should be tried in a civilian court and afforded all the rights due to him.


He is. Just got the newsflash from CNN/local news on my phone.
 
2013-04-22 01:55:28 PM  

scottydoesntknow: FlashHarry: that being said, he is an AMERICAN CITIZEN and should be tried in a civilian court and afforded all the rights due to him.

He is. Just got the newsflash from CNN/local news on my phone.


good.

besides, if he's tried in a federal court, he'll likely get the death penalty, satisfying the blood god.
 
2013-04-22 01:57:27 PM  

xanadian: You mis-spelled "coont."


i43.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-22 02:04:42 PM  
Isn't it coming out that he ran his brother over with the stolen SUV? Like cops were subduing the first brother and the second went all bowling for cops and instead missed the spare?
 
2013-04-22 02:06:22 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Isn't it coming out that he ran his brother over with the stolen SUV? Like cops were subduing the first brother and the second went all bowling for cops and instead missed the spare?


Yep. Pretty much killed his brother because of it too
 
2013-04-22 02:10:52 PM  
Well, if it were the LAPD we'd probably have had 4 more dead civilians, and 30 dead Toyota pickups.  And the boat would have been burned to the ground with white phosphorous.

So, you know, I'm going to say that the BPD did alright.

And the article is less about excessive force (one line) and about the impact of terrorism in the US on the media and the general population.
 
2013-04-22 02:13:39 PM  

I_C_Weener: Well, if it were the LAPD we'd probably have had 4 more dead civilians, and 30 dead Toyota pickups.  And the boat would have been burned to the ground with white phosphorous.


Be lucky it wasn't Chicago, when we go full cop crazy we go full cop crazy

Tatsuma: Yep. Pretty much killed his brother because of it too


I think we can just go ahead and chock these two up as insane
 
2013-04-22 02:16:58 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: I think we can just go ahead and chock these two up as insane


They were not insane but evil. They knew fully well what they were doing.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-22 02:17:08 PM  
If someone has explosives strapped to them and is shooting at you and coming toward you I don't think that pepper spray is going to do it.

It's cool that she's a cunny professor though.
 
2013-04-22 02:18:20 PM  

Tatsuma: They were not insane but evil. They knew fully well what they were doing.


Well something was broken up in that noggin

...you know aside from the bullet hole in his mouth and all that
 
2013-04-22 02:19:31 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Isn't it coming out that he ran his brother over with the stolen SUV? Like cops were subduing the first brother and the second went all bowling for cops and instead missed the spare?


Y U make me LOL?!

This is serious stuff! Fark. Serious business.
 
2013-04-22 02:21:26 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: I_C_Weener: Well, if it were the LAPD we'd probably have had 4 more dead civilians, and 30 dead Toyota pickups.  And the boat would have been burned to the ground with white phosphorous.

Be lucky it wasn't Chicago, when we go full cop crazy we go full cop crazy

Tatsuma: Yep. Pretty much killed his brother because of it too

I think we can just go ahead and chock these two up as insane


True.  They would have shot a lot of dogs, and in knock and enter raids killed a few toddlers.
 
2013-04-22 02:52:27 PM  
Go fark yourself, you cuny....
 
2013-04-22 02:52:54 PM  
I'm guessing he is AW'ing or just plain stupid. Nothing I have read suggests that any unnecessary force was used at any time.

But really, is there any amount of force that would be unnecessary? They were shooting and throwing bombs at cops. At that point, the tasers and batons get put away and the serious toys come out.
 
2013-04-22 02:53:28 PM  
He's right.  Too much force was used against innocent civilians in a blatant disregard for constitutionally protected rights.

Just another in a long list of war crimes by Obama
 
2013-04-22 02:54:13 PM  
From what I've read, the older brother was killed by the younger one, who ran him over with the stolen SUV while escaping. So, add that to his list of crimes, and try not to laugh to hard at the beautiful FARKING irony.
 
2013-04-22 02:54:23 PM  

vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.


7/10 should've went with "Libtards"
 righties never use "liberal"
 
2013-04-22 02:54:55 PM  
shiat, I'm surprised they didn't use MORE force.  Especially on a cop killer.
 
2013-04-22 02:55:09 PM  
They shut down an entire city and called out the farking national guard for a teenager with a pistol and some tubesocks full of gunpowder. Yes force was excessive. Everyone involved should be embarrassed.
 
2013-04-22 02:55:12 PM  
And his fark handle is _____________.

/fill in the blank
//I can think of 2 off the top of my head
 
2013-04-22 02:55:22 PM  

Jument: I'm guessing he is AW'ing or just plain stupid. Nothing I have read suggests that any unnecessary force was used at any time.

But really, is there any amount of force that would be unnecessary? They were shooting and throwing bombs at cops. At that point, the tasers and batons get put away and the serious toys come out.


For some people, any force used by the police is too much force.
 
2013-04-22 02:56:45 PM  

Tatsuma: City University of New York Professor Ruth

I immediately went 'Please not a Jew please not a Jew

O'Brien

Score!

While terrorism is about causing fear - again an emotion - we do have to account for our conduct in these extreme times when adrenaline is running high.

At my home, to at least offset this, we turn off all media.  I couldn't believe my sons' explanation when they got home about one brother running over the other one.  So I found a place to read about this, and I recoiled after seeing the picture.  Still, we all know that terrorism, like crime, "leads if it bleeds" with the established media.  The established media fixates on the domestic-violence or crime-of-passion aspect of terrorism, and it, too, inculcates more fear in all of us.


What an idiot. 'I didn't follow the news or everything that happened, but clearly the police used too much force!'


prolly her married name. She sounds real Jew-y

/are you serious?
 
2013-04-22 02:56:52 PM  
FOX News is awesome at trolling at idiots.
 
2013-04-22 02:56:58 PM  
Looked like the PD did all right to me.  I did think it was excessive to shut down the whole city of Boston though when they had the suspect cornered in a suburb though.
 
2013-04-22 02:56:59 PM  
Funny thing about Force.
You leave it lying around and it gets used.
You fund it, feed it and turn it loose, you know not what will happen. Usually the worst of all possibilities.

Note to self, when target is a pinhead, do not pick up the sledgehammer
 
2013-04-22 02:58:40 PM  

Ned Stark: They shut down an entire city and called out the farking national guard for a teenager with a pistol and some tubesocks full of gunpowder. Yes force was excessive. Everyone involved should be embarrassed.


The stupidest post? This is it.
 
2013-04-22 02:59:25 PM  

vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.


Well, at least the ones you build of straw will. I'm one of those Libby-Libs and I think they used appropriate force.

But have fun playing with your straw libs!
 
2013-04-22 03:00:08 PM  
Did CUNY Professor Commit Treason?  Fox News Is Just Asking Questions.
 
2013-04-22 03:00:15 PM  

I_C_Weener: Well, if it were the LAPD we'd probably have had 4 more dead civilians, and 30 dead Toyota pickups.  And the boat would have been burned to the ground with white phosphorous.

So, you know, I'm going to say that the BPD did alright.

And the article is less about excessive force (one line) and about the impact of terrorism in the US on the media and the general population.


This.
 
2013-04-22 03:00:21 PM  

skullkrusher: prolly her married name


Aw crap. You might be right.

skullkrusher: /are you serious?


Of course I am, do we really need another Jewish-American professor at a liberal University saying something really farking stupid?

I say 'Oy, fark no'
 
2013-04-22 03:00:54 PM  
My wife's liberal brother has been on this rant all weekend.  "Boston PD used too much force!"  "Shutting down the city and forcing everyone to remain indoors was over the line."  "This is a conspiracy by the Teaparty and or the right wing!"  Though, it is a welcomed change from his anti-Second Amendment and Obama can do no wrong facebook posts.
 
2013-04-22 03:01:00 PM  
i.imgur.com

"The use of excessive force in the apprehension of the Tsarnaev brothers has been approved"
 
2013-04-22 03:01:01 PM  
Subby, you left the "T" out of the C word, Buddy!
 
2013-04-22 03:01:06 PM  

zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/


Not really. I mean, the 'too much force' thing wasn't really the point of her piece, but it was a pretty weird thing to say especially when it appears to come simply from viewing the couple of pictures of the guy in the city morgue. there has been no report on the cause of death, there have been multiple reports of the younger brother running over him and at least one farker here commented that the big gash in older brother's side might have been done medically, in an effort to drain fluid from the chest cavity during efforts to save him. Pretty silly to see some pictures without context and think it 'raises questions' about whether the police used too much force.
 
2013-04-22 03:01:13 PM  
Read the original blogpost - that woman is all over the place.  She starts with three poorly written paragraphs about bad things happening on and near her birthday, before talking about what I suppose she thinks she is talking about, which is the brothers and the excessive use of force that she somehow assumes happened after seeing the mortuary pictures of the older brother.

Then she's talking randomly about the fact that they're immigrants?

Huh?

She'd get a 7 on her SAT essay score.
 
2013-04-22 03:01:53 PM  
I have no sympathy for terrorists. However, I do have reservations about how we ought to handle such terrorists when we have them surrounded.

The older brother - fark him. He got what he deserved. When you start shooting at cops, you'll get what's coming to you.

On the other hand, I don't know if the younger brother was handled properly. What I definitely do not want to see is a population who is accustomed to "he's a terrorist, shoot on sight". It is far too easy for that to lead to a police state gestapo squad. I believe more efforts should have been made to take him alive as well as giving him plenty of time to surrender. But it seems like there was a lot of pressure on PD to get it over with quickly.

Then again, I don't have all the information. I am also not an expert. I can simply voice a concern. Regardless, the officers who chose to engage those two are brave men and women and I appreciate their efforts.
 
2013-04-22 03:02:20 PM  
My Liberal opinion on the use of force:

Shooting an unarmed guy handcuffed and lying on the floor of a subway = Excessive.

Shooting an armed guy who just blew up a bunch of innocent people = Justified.

I was quite proud of our local and federal law enforcement dudes this time around. KUDOs to them for a job well done.
 
2013-04-22 03:02:36 PM  

Tatsuma: skullkrusher: prolly her married name

Aw crap. You might be right.

skullkrusher: /are you serious?

Of course I am, do we really need another Jewish-American professor at a liberal University saying something really farking stupid?

I say 'Oy, fark no'


my heart didn't sink when her mick name wasn't revealed and we've done plenty of stupid shiat over the years
 
2013-04-22 03:04:11 PM  

Tatsuma: Plenty of these idiots posting on Fark already


media.idownloadblog.com
 
2013-04-22 03:04:22 PM  

Silly Jesus: 1.  The police didn't kill him, his brother did.
2.  Many of the injuries were self inflicted by a bomb that he made and detonated.
3.  The injury to his side may have been a medical procedure.

Even if those things weren't the case, you would still be an idiot.


Yep. According to the reports I read he was about to throw a bomb at police when it exploded in his hand. Pretty sure I don't want to see the photos of the results -- I've seen enough photos of people mangled by his bombs already.
 
2013-04-22 03:05:02 PM  

Silly Jesus: 1.  The police didn't kill him, his brother did.
2.  Many of the injuries were self inflicted by a bomb that he made and detonated.
3.  The injury to his side may have been a medical procedure.

Even if those things weren't the case, you would still be an idiot.


Not idiocy, just a question of whether the list is true. Claiming too much force for capture is ridiculous, but what they did after he was captured is different. A little street justice?

/I doubt it
//just sayin'
 
2013-04-22 03:06:25 PM  

skullkrusher: my heart didn't sink when her mick name wasn't revealed and we've done plenty of stupid shiat over the years


There's not a long history of Irishmen saying stupid bleeding heart things in Academia in America.


What if it was a story about a drunken, pantless man stumbling in front of Michelle Obama and asking her to pull his finger, and found out his name was O'Brien, I bet you'd feel differently wouldn't ya?
 
2013-04-22 03:07:44 PM  
Just another douchy college professor heard from who keeps herself insulated among like-minded people so has little clue just how full potato her arguments really are.

Nothing to see here, folks.
 
2013-04-22 03:08:00 PM  
This is the first time the ownership of those Bearcat things has been justifiable by the PD for a long while.  They actually make a case for being useful when hunting the IED brothers.
 
2013-04-22 03:08:16 PM  

slayer199: Really?

I'm usually one to jump all over abuse of force...but in this case, they were wanted for a bombing that killed 3 innocent individuals and wounded or maimed over 100 more.  They killed a cop, they carjacked another individual...and led police on a chase.  They were clearly armed and dangerous.  Terrorism or not, the use of force was in this case was completely justified.


Personally, I'm much less concerned about the amount of forced used to capture them than I am about the decision to not read the one they captured alive his Miranda rights.
 
2013-04-22 03:08:30 PM  

GalFriday: Subby, you left the "T" out of the C word, Buddy!


It was a typo. T is right next to Y.
 
2013-04-22 03:09:02 PM  

Tatsuma: Ned Stark: They shut down an entire city and called out the farking national guard for a teenager with a pistol and some tubesocks full of gunpowder. Yes force was excessive. Everyone involved should be embarrassed.

The stupidest post? This is it.


Or trolliest. Either way, weak.
 
2013-04-22 03:09:37 PM  

Tatsuma: skullkrusher: my heart didn't sink when her mick name wasn't revealed and we've done plenty of stupid shiat over the years

There's not a long history of Irishmen saying stupid bleeding heart things in Academia in America.


What if it was a story about a drunken, pantless man stumbling in front of Michelle Obama and asking her to pull his finger, and found out his name was O'Brien, I bet you'd feel differently wouldn't ya?


in that case it would be my uncle and I'm probably biased
 
2013-04-22 03:09:40 PM  
It doesn't matter where you go, what level you hit, there will always be idiots.  There are idiots with high school diplomas, idiots with college diplomas, idiots with masters degrees and idiots with PhDs.  Hell, we've had idiots as presidents.  So it should be no shock that a professor might be a complete farking idiot.
 
2013-04-22 03:09:50 PM  

ha-ha-guy: This is the first time the ownership of those Bearcat things has been justifiable by the PD for a long while.  They actually make a case for being useful when hunting the IED brothers.


Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "Bearcat thing"?
 
2013-04-22 03:10:24 PM  
Too much force and you'll end up with Trek Wars

rack.0.mshcdn.com

Seems cool at first but no one knows how it will turn out.
 
2013-04-22 03:10:31 PM  

zulius: I wonder what his feeling was for the other recent domestic terrorists...


Know how I know you DRTFA?

Also: Huuuurrrrrr we go again; it's Fox, so I won't believe a single word. Duuurrrr.
 
2013-04-22 03:10:46 PM  

vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.


The funny thing is that'd be overdone as good parody if I didn't think (because of other posts you've made in other threads) that you were serious.  It's like a double Poe or something.  Xzibit would be proud.
 
2013-04-22 03:10:50 PM  
First, MSNBC saying the fact that they were Muslims "doesn't matter"

Now there's this...
 
2013-04-22 03:10:50 PM  

Zasteva: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Well, at least the ones you build of straw will. I'm one of those Libby-Libs and I think they used appropriate force.

But have fun playing with your straw libs!


Your snark meter needs calibrating.
 
2013-04-22 03:11:51 PM  
has anyone made a "coont" joke yet?
 
2013-04-22 03:12:07 PM  

skullkrusher: in that case it would be my uncle and I'm probably biased


Fair enough

Now I wish that it did happen, cause I want that video. And see the follow-up tasering
 
2013-04-22 03:13:21 PM  

vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.


Just like your fellow Republiturds who don't want us going after terrorists with drones.
 
2013-04-22 03:13:28 PM  
sharetv.org
Does not agree.
 
2013-04-22 03:14:08 PM  

randomjsa: First, MSNBC saying the fact that they were Muslims "doesn't matter"


In regards to what?
 
2013-04-22 03:14:35 PM  
Being injured in a gunfight which the criminal is attempting to kill law enforcement isn't excessive force.  Being run over by your accomplice as he attempts to escape causing injury has nothing to do with any force being caused by law enforcement attempting to capture a dangerous criminal.  I don't know what this professor thinks happened, but this certainly wasn't an example of excessive force we often see by police on civilians.  These were extremely dangerous criminals who were killing civilians and law enforcement and that requires the use of deadly force to attempt to capture them when they are actively resisting with deadly force.
 
2013-04-22 03:14:40 PM  
Will be the general feeling of most college profs. Have to remember how incredibly left wing crazy most are.
 
2013-04-22 03:14:52 PM  
Yea, I'll echo most of the sentiment in this thread. There should, of course, always be an investigation when so much force is used, but there's little chance the cops really used "excessive" amounts of force. The brothers killed a cop, hijacked a car, then fired tons of rounds and used a number of explosives while being chased. You don't ask nicely when someone is spewing bullets and bombs all over the place - not only are the cops in danger, but anyone else that might be nearby (bullets and fragments can travel a very long distance). Not to mention that these two guys clearly had the ordinance and know-how to do a repeat of the bombings. Public safety trumps all other concerns in these situations.
 
2013-04-22 03:15:08 PM  

Tatsuma: skullkrusher: in that case it would be my uncle and I'm probably biased

Fair enough

Now I wish that it did happen, cause I want that video. And see the follow-up tasering


ever seen Drunk Uncle on SNL? It is no coincidence that the guy who plays the character's last name is Moynihan.
 
2013-04-22 03:15:40 PM  

Silverstaff: [i.imgur.com image 634x356]

"The use of excessive force in the apprehension of the Tsarnaev brothers has been approved"


Excellent.
 
2013-04-22 03:17:16 PM  

Tatsuma: City University of New York Professor Ruth

I immediately went 'Please not a Jew please not a Jew

O'Brien

Score!

While terrorism is about causing fear - again an emotion - we do have to account for our conduct in these extreme times when adrenaline is running high.

At my home, to at least offset this, we turn off all media.  I couldn't believe my sons' explanation when they got home about one brother running over the other one.  So I found a place to read about this, and I recoiled after seeing the picture.  Still, we all know that terrorism, like crime, "leads if it bleeds" with the established media.  The established media fixates on the domestic-violence or crime-of-passion aspect of terrorism, and it, too, inculcates more fear in all of us.


What an idiot. 'I didn't follow the news or everything that happened, but clearly the police used too much force!'


That last bit sums it up pretty nicely.
 
2013-04-22 03:17:19 PM  
College is so gay.
 
2013-04-22 03:17:52 PM  
ehm... they went after the guys with the intent to capture if possible, the number of boots on the ground is a semantic

it's not like they showed up with t-1000's and drones obliterating everything in sight, get a grip, this isn't the LAPD
 
2013-04-22 03:18:24 PM  
The "too much force" argument from someone whose life was not on the line trying to capture the guy.

Swordsman on the street? You want the Musketeer Squad to come and parry him into submission? Hell, no, they're Musketeers because they have guns -- they'll shoot the swordsman so they can safely go home to the wife and kids at the end of the shift. If I'm chasing a gunman on foot, I want to do it in an armored giant robot. With precision rockets and frickin' lasers on my head.
 
2013-04-22 03:18:48 PM  

neversubmit: Too much force and you'll end up with Trek Wars

[rack.0.mshcdn.com image 600x400]

Seems cool at first but no one knows how it will turn out.


No, you were thinking the Star Wars Trek, the vast migration of Star Wars fans.
 
2013-04-22 03:18:54 PM  

Katolu: Zasteva: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Well, at least the ones you build of straw will. I'm one of those Libby-Libs and I think they used appropriate force.

But have fun playing with your straw libs!

Your snark meter needs calibrating.


That's a relief :-)
 
2013-04-22 03:19:28 PM  

FlashHarry: so-called "liberal" here. i think the force used was appropriate. the guy was carrying shiatloads of weapons and IEDs.

that being said, he is an AMERICAN CITIZEN and should be tried in a civilian court and afforded all the rights due to him.


Yeah.  It's one thing to use heavy force when you're dealing with someone who's well armed and already killed people.  It's a completely different kettle of fish to deny due process to someone who's lying in a hospital bed under guard.

And it's not even just about "playing nice" or "being fair."  Question Tsarnaev without giving him his Miranda warning first and it's pretty likely a good lawyer will make most of what he says impermissible.  IANAL but I have a feeling this is going to do more harm than good to the case, all concerns about fairness and due process aside.
 
2013-04-22 03:19:57 PM  
This said, the mortuary pictures of the older brother of the two are extremely disturbing, raising questions as to whether the Boston Police Department captured him with too much force.

I'm sure getting run over by his own brother didn't help him look "pristine" in his death photo.
 
2013-04-22 03:20:22 PM  

DeathCipris: ha-ha-guy: This is the first time the ownership of those Bearcat things has been justifiable by the PD for a long while.  They actually make a case for being useful when hunting the IED brothers.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "Bearcat thing"?


Go to google and search "police bearcat"
 
2013-04-22 03:20:58 PM  

zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/


I'm surprised that Fox even provided that link.

www.auburnmedia.com

"Facts? I ain't got to show you no stinking facts!"
 
2013-04-22 03:20:59 PM  

WelldeadLink: The "too much force" argument from someone whose life was not on the line trying to capture the guy.

Swordsman on the street? You want the Musketeer Squad to come and parry him into submission? Hell, no, they're Musketeers because they have guns -- they'll shoot the swordsman so they can safely go home to the wife and kids at the end of the shift. If I'm chasing a gunman on foot, I want to do it in an armored giant robot. With precision rockets and frickin' lasers on my head.


An the rest of society is damn well entitled to tell you to eat shiat and hand you a vest and a handgun.
 
2013-04-22 03:22:40 PM  

Tatsuma: Ned Stark: They shut down an entire city and called out the farking national guard for a teenager with a pistol and some tubesocks full of gunpowder. Yes force was excessive. Everyone involved should be embarrassed.

The stupidest post? This is it.


Hey, point of order, folks:  Does it count as an insult when it's Tatsuma saying it?
 
2013-04-22 03:24:30 PM  

sweatybronson: Read the original blogpost - that woman is all over the place.  She starts with three poorly written paragraphs about bad things happening on and near her birthday, before talking about what I suppose she thinks she is talking about, which is the brothers and the excessive use of force that she somehow assumes happened after seeing the mortuary pictures of the older brother.

Then she's talking randomly about the fact that they're immigrants?

Huh?

She'd get a 7 on her SAT essay score.


Rambling stream of consciousness is rambling.  That is the worst piece of writing I have ever seen by a college professor.  I gathering it is not too hard to get a poly sci position at CUNY.
 
2013-04-22 03:24:59 PM  

neversubmit: Too much force and you'll end up with Trek Wars

[rack.0.mshcdn.com image 600x400]

Seems cool at first but no one knows how it will turn out.



The Enterprise will destroy the star destroyer with a single photon torpedo, of course.
 
2013-04-22 03:25:45 PM  
Or maybe we should stop taking the opinions of outliers and apply them to entire groups we don't like.
 
2013-04-22 03:26:26 PM  

vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.


Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.

The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.

So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.
 
2013-04-22 03:27:23 PM  

AdamK: ehm... they went after the guys with the intent to capture if possible, the number of boots on the ground is a semantic

it's not like they showed up with t-1000's and drones obliterating everything in sight, get a grip, this isn't the LAPD



Hey, just what you see, pal.
 
2013-04-22 03:27:35 PM  
btw, wtf is she doing hunting down the death photos?
 
2013-04-22 03:29:22 PM  
If this results in an acquittal, I will CUNY PUNYT someone into next week.
 
2013-04-22 03:29:55 PM  
Tatsuma: City University of New York Professor Ruth

I immediately went 'Please not a Jew please not a Jew

O'Brien

Score!


on the other hand, her name is Ruth, so she probably is Jewish and just married an Irishman to piss off her mother.
just sayin'
 
2013-04-22 03:30:05 PM  

Tatsuma: What if it was a story about a drunken, pantless man stumbling in front of Michelle Obama and asking her to pull his finger, and found out his name was O'Brien, I bet you'd feel differently wouldn't ya?


Woah! I thought we agreed we'd never mention that little episode again? You're the dick who brought the gallon of Manacheviz.
 
2013-04-22 03:30:37 PM  
The liberal left loves the muslim terrorists and are their best friends and protectors.  They can always be counted on to defend their actions and protect them from justice.  Bullshiat, like from this "professor" is in stark contrast to how liberals want peaceful demonstrators outside of an abortion clinic treated.
 
2013-04-22 03:31:02 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Just like your fellow Republiturds who don't want us going after terrorists with drones.


Again, snark meter...sheesh.
 
2013-04-22 03:31:58 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.

The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.

So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.



The Freudian is strong with this one.  But damn, you have a knack for making the crazy more interesting than most of the folks here.
 
2013-04-22 03:32:35 PM  

FarkinHostile: Woah! I thought we agreed we'd never mention that little episode again? You're the dick who brought the gallon of Manacheviz.


Sorry!

Had to drink some of that vile vile syrup over Passover because I was in the middle of nowhere and couldn't find other kosher wine.

Man is that ever disgusting
 
2013-04-22 03:34:39 PM  

neversubmit: Too much force and you'll end up with Trek Wars

[rack.0.mshcdn.com image 600x400]

Seems cool at first but no one knows how it will turn out.


Dammit, I've always wanted to see something like that. Hey, are there at least any published novels mixing Star Wars and Star Trek? Or will I have to find fanfic?

/always wondered how it would have gone if Star Trek would have budded off another series starring Nimoy as the Evil Bearded Spock against the Empire and it's agonizers....
//big fan of series crossbreeds.
 
2013-04-22 03:36:31 PM  

Thunderpipes: Will be the general feeling of most college profs. Have to remember how incredibly left wing crazy most are.


This.
 
2013-04-22 03:38:56 PM  
 
2013-04-22 03:39:04 PM  

offmymeds: zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/

I'm surprised that Fox even provided that link.

[www.auburnmedia.com image 245x237]

"Facts? I ain't got to show you no stinking facts!"


Racist.
 
2013-04-22 03:39:45 PM  

lordaction: The liberal left loves the muslim terrorists and are their best friends and protectors.  They can always be counted on to defend their actions and protect them from justice.  Bullshiat, like from this "professor" is in stark contrast to how liberals want peaceful demonstrators outside of an abortion clinic treated.


So that explains why Obama had bin Laden killed, consistently takes out every #2 in Al Queda, and actually goes after the terrorists instead of invading unrelated countries.

"Me am Bizarro!"
 
2013-04-22 03:41:06 PM  

lordaction: The liberal left loves the muslim terrorists and are their best friends and protectors.  They can always be counted on to defend their actions and protect them from justice.  Bullshiat, like from this "professor" is in stark contrast to how liberals want peaceful demonstrators outside of an abortion clinic treated.


As I said, emotion-based thinking.
 
2013-04-22 03:41:40 PM  

ciberido: FlashHarry: so-called "liberal" here. i think the force used was appropriate. the guy was carrying shiatloads of weapons and IEDs.

that being said, he is an AMERICAN CITIZEN and should be tried in a civilian court and afforded all the rights due to him.

Yeah.  It's one thing to use heavy force when you're dealing with someone who's well armed and already killed people.  It's a completely different kettle of fish to deny due process to someone who's lying in a hospital bed under guard.

And it's not even just about "playing nice" or "being fair."  Question Tsarnaev without giving him his Miranda warning first and it's pretty likely a good lawyer will make most of what he says impermissible.  IANAL but I have a feeling this is going to do more harm than good to the case, all concerns about fairness and due process aside.


Public safety exception would allow some of what is said to be used.  However, they likely don't need a confession as they have all the evidence they need from the various crime scenes and his home.  The police are more interested in finding out if there are others involved or any other bombs.  If it leads to something else, they can likely find enough for conviction via their own acts.  Or you know, fabricate what they need (I kid, I kid).
 
2013-04-22 03:42:54 PM  
Can we autoban people who link to infowar, or at least a script that changes the url for www.ilovemidgetporn.com ?
 
2013-04-22 03:43:05 PM  
I hate the whole reading of Miranda rights thing.

You automatically have Miranda rights. Having them read to you doesn't grant you magic legal powers. You always have the right to remain silent, regardless of whether or not you're reminded of it.

Every citizen should be aware of this. If TV has taught us anything, it's our Miranda rights. And if you haven't watched enough TV to be aware of it, then you don't deserve citizenship.

It drives me crazy that charges can be dropped because a cop forgets to recite something the scummy suspect already knows.

/doesn't exactly apply in the Boston case, but still
 
2013-04-22 03:43:10 PM  
One could make an argument that homeland security is ungainly and excessively over militarized for its mission, but I don't see how they used too much force in the apprehension.

You had a case of the city being infested with two authentic, trained, grade A, bomb making terrorists.
Things like this are the reason we buy guns. The reason we pay men with guns to patrol the street. The reason we have men with guns invade third world nations and shoot the place up.

Boston's lucky this problem got taken care of with minimal damage.
If the cops took out a few houses in the process, some would still call that a reasonable response.
 
2013-04-22 03:44:02 PM  
Her original post was a little frenetic. When she finally arrived at a point (after bouncing around like a racquetball in a zero G court) I agreed with it. I think her final point: that we need to not flip out, but instead we need to embrace those things we profess to believe so passionately and rationally prosecute this crime (and do it clearly and openly because the world is watching), is a valid point.

I question her skill in getting to her point. I doubt this unfocused treatise on American justice will be remembered by anyone once it scrolls off Fark's main page. That said, I don't she's particularly foolish for having attempted to write it out. I think she had some valid points about making sure we don't prove ourselves hypocrites to the rest of the world. We've done quite enough of that in the last dozen years.

But the whole "too much force" thing--nah, not so much. They were throwing bombs and killing policemen. THEY escalated; the police responded in kind.
 
2013-04-22 03:44:04 PM  
"Boston has great resonance for terrorists.  Selecting the Boston Marathon has great impact and it is going to be felt among the upper middle class: healthy, white, high-income earners who are non-smokers and non-drinkers (though maybe pancake-and-syrup eaters) - those who attend the Boston Marathon or watch it."

WTF pancakes?  What the holy hell is she going on about?
 
2013-04-22 03:44:37 PM  

ciberido: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.

The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.

So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.


The Freudian is strong with this one.  But damn, you have a knack for making the crazy more interesting than most of the folks here.


You DO realize, don't you, that: (1) Freud has been pretty much discredited for the last couple of decades, and (2) your statement is a perfect example of what I said about "liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons."?
 
2013-04-22 03:44:54 PM  

notmtwain: Well, how was he killed?

http://www.infowars.com/witness-tamerlan-tsarnaev-run-over-by-cops-n ot -his-brother/


Wait, Alex Jones is credible now?  When did this happen?
 
2013-04-22 03:46:23 PM  

ciberido: slayer199: Really?

I'm usually one to jump all over abuse of force...but in this case, they were wanted for a bombing that killed 3 innocent individuals and wounded or maimed over 100 more.  They killed a cop, they carjacked another individual...and led police on a chase.  They were clearly armed and dangerous.  Terrorism or not, the use of force was in this case was completely justified.

Personally, I'm much less concerned about the amount of forced used to capture them than I am about the decision to not read the one they captured alive his Miranda rights.


You know what happens if they don't read him his rights but question him anyway? The evidence coming from the interrogation is excluded from trial, as is any evidence that is discovered as a result of the interrogation barring certain exceptions.

If the police and prosecutor think they can convict without a confession, let's say due to the physical evidence and the fact he was involved in a massive shootout with the police, they can go ahead and interrogate anyway without worrying about the evidence from the interrogation being excluded.

Your right against self-incrimination is only impinged upon if the cops are trying to get info to use against you in court. If they are instead trying to get you to tell them where more bombs might be hidden concerns of admissibility can take a back seat to a need for information that is not intended for use at trial.

So tell me, which of his constitutional rights were violated if his interrogation, prior to being Mirandized, is excluded from trial?
 
2013-04-22 03:48:28 PM  

syberpud: Wait, Alex Jones is credible now? When did this happen?


If Alex Jones said the sky is blue, I'd actually go out to check. And if it was, I'd schedule a visit to the doctor because my eyes are most likely farked
 
2013-04-22 03:48:34 PM  
Wait...

deadwildroses.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-22 03:49:58 PM  

rwfan: btw, wtf is she doing hunting down the death photos?


They've been going around the web. You practically have to make more of an effort to not see them. They're not particularly bad for a guy who's had a thoracotomy, been shot, and appears to have had a car run over his face. If anything, we should not be questioning the motivation behind looking at the images, and instead consider the appropriateness of officials unofficially posting morgue shots on their Twitter pages.
 
2013-04-22 03:51:36 PM  

FC Exile: Brother Nathanel Thinks so as well.  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=376_1366621682


Damn. That was awesome. He really seemed to be enjoying himself, too, in a sort of "LOL, told you so" way.
 
2013-04-22 03:54:56 PM  
I have to admit that when I saw the headline I thought it was going to be about the boat that the younger brother was hiding in.
riehlworldview.com

I wonder how many holes are in it?  And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro?  (my guess is 0)
 
2013-04-22 03:56:46 PM  
There is a reason she is a CUNY professor.
 
2013-04-22 03:56:59 PM  
"Indeed, this week at the CUNY Graduate Center, we are having our last event for a fellowship I co-direct, funded by the former Secretary of the Treasury, Andrew Mellon, whose foundation started the John E. Sawyer Seminars on the Comparative Study of Cultures."

The entire rant was just a plug for these things, which have no other reason to be mentioned.  We've been trolled.
 
2013-04-22 03:58:03 PM  

SandmanEsq: There is a reason she is a CUNY professor.


i.qkme.me
 
2013-04-22 03:58:56 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: "Indeed, this week at the CUNY Graduate Center, we are having our last event for a fellowship I co-direct, funded by the former Secretary of the Treasury, Andrew Mellon, whose foundation started the John E. Sawyer Seminars on the Comparative Study of Cultures."

The entire rant was just a plug for these things, which have no other reason to be mentioned.  We've been trolled.


Yes, yes we have.
 
2013-04-22 03:59:31 PM  

rwfan: I wonder how many holes are in it? And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro? (my guess is 0)


0, because bullets don't magically travel through everything. Does that mean they should not have shot at him when he was firing at them?
 
2013-04-22 04:01:14 PM  
Having read what we're calling an "article", I think her analysis of the image is probably mistaken.

In the photos, Tamerlane has a lot of deep bruising on his shoulder and the side of face. This bruising looks like the result of a single, large impact. It looks exactly like what a layman such as myself might imagine the kind of bruise getting run over by a car might leave.

He also has a large, open gash on the side of his rib cage. The cut is clean and clearly exposes the chest cavity. This seems consistent with having your chest cracked open for a heart massage or other invasive emergency procedure involving your torso.

He has some general bruising and what appear to be a few small arms entry wounds with no particularly heinous exit wound blowout.

If you're excitable, you might imagine he was beaten up really bad or something, but his injuries do seem consistent with the official story.
 
2013-04-22 04:02:28 PM  

Tatsuma: rwfan: I wonder how many holes are in it? And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro? (my guess is 0)

0, because bullets don't magically travel through everything. Does that mean they should not have shot at him when he was firing at them?


They sure as shiat go through lightweight fiberglass readily.
 
2013-04-22 04:02:47 PM  

SandmanEsq: There is a reason she is a CUNY professor.


jst3p: SandmanEsq: There is a reason she is a CUNY professor.

[i.qkme.me image 600x824]



No! Bad! Bad Misogynous!  You may not know this but you can disagree with someone without being hateful.
 
2013-04-22 04:04:24 PM  

lolpix: They sure as shiat go through lightweight fiberglass readily.


We don't know what else was behind him and the bullets
 
2013-04-22 04:04:49 PM  

lolpix: rwfan: btw, wtf is she doing hunting down the death photos?

They've been going around the web. You practically have to make more of an effort to not see them. They're not particularly bad for a guy who's had a thoracotomy, been shot, and appears to have had a car run over his face. If anything, we should not be questioning the motivation behind looking at the images, and instead consider the appropriateness of officials unofficially posting morgue shots on their Twitter pages.


I guess I don't hang out at the right corners of the interwebs because I never even heard of that picture until just now.  I agree with your point about the officials posting morgue shots on Twitter though.
 
2013-04-22 04:06:12 PM  
The United States that I love hunts down terrorists AND follows human rights during capture.

I think she was going for the giggles. Drone her ass, just in case.
 
2013-04-22 04:06:47 PM  

ciberido: slayer199: Really?

I'm usually one to jump all over abuse of force...but in this case, they were wanted for a bombing that killed 3 innocent individuals and wounded or maimed over 100 more.  They killed a cop, they carjacked another individual...and led police on a chase.  They were clearly armed and dangerous.  Terrorism or not, the use of force was in this case was completely justified.

Personally, I'm much less concerned about the amount of forced used to capture them than I am about the decision to not read the one they captured alive his Miranda rights.


The guy has been unconscious or otherwise unable to signal comprehension. Miranda rights aren't about reading you a couple of things, they're about explaining rights you have and ensuring you understand them. That's specifically why part of Miranda is the question "Do you understand these rights?"

Until he can legitimately answer the question (awake, aware, and not on a farkton of drugs), there's no reason to read him his rights.
 
2013-04-22 04:07:18 PM  

Tatsuma: rwfan: I wonder how many holes are in it? And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro? (my guess is 0)

0, because bullets don't magically travel through everything. Does that mean they should not have shot at him when he was firing at them?


Well the way I heard it he put the gun in his mouth, shot and missed.  All the other shots came from the cops.  Of course I could be wrong.
 
2013-04-22 04:09:04 PM  
If you read her comment VERY carefully, you'll soon realize that you have no idea what she's talking about or what her point is.
 
2013-04-22 04:09:50 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Isn't it coming out that he ran his brother over with the stolen SUV? Like cops were subduing the first brother and the second went all bowling for cops and instead missed the spare?


I don't think he missed. I've a Russian friend who fought in Chechnia. He claims that Chechen fighters commonly kill their wounded to prevent interrogations.
 
2013-04-22 04:13:45 PM  

ciberido: Personally, I'm much less concerned about the amount of forced used to capture them than I am about the decision to not read the one they captured alive his Miranda rights.


They don't need to read him his Miranda rights unless he's being questioned specifically about a crime.  Then there are some exceptions to that rule (exigent circumstances, etc).  The government could argue in this case that they needed to determine if any additional "sleeper cells" existed or if the brothers were acting alone.  Miranda is way overplayed and misunderstood.

As a former LEO, one of our favorite tricks was after arresting someone is to NOT talk about the crime or why they were arrested.  Talk about weather, area sports teams, etc...talk about anything.  People would get comfortable and then start incriminating themselves.  Never had anything tossed because a suspect wasn't Mirandized...because they weren't questioned or a focus of an investigation.
 
2013-04-22 04:18:38 PM  
Doesn't surprise me. Colleges in this country have pretty much degenerated into Marxist Indoctrination camps.
 
2013-04-22 04:23:09 PM  

zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/


Actually it is but you have to read to the last sentence to find it:

FTFA: 'Once all the adrenaline subsides, I hope we will all be witnesses at the Internal Affairs investigation about undue force.'

What a vile appalling comment.
And what a stupid twunt for thinking this.
What this idiot doesn't understand is that if she was in an A-Q controlled region she would most likely be killed for knowing how to read let alone for having any kind of 'higher' education.
 
2013-04-22 04:24:54 PM  

rwfan: I have to admit that when I saw the headline I thought it was going to be about the boat that the younger brother was hiding in.
[riehlworldview.com image 575x714]

I wonder how many holes are in it?  And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro?  (my guess is 0)


I heard they went less-than-lethal which may be consistent with the pic. Those rounds can kill tho.
 
2013-04-22 04:29:59 PM  

Zasteva: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Well, at least the ones you build of straw will. I'm one of those Libby-Libs and I think they used appropriate force.'


You're the exception.

EVERY post from a 'liberal' pundit varied from'They must are Right-wing nutcases' to 'I hope they aren't Muslims' to 'they used too much force to capture them'.

Be proud that you have a sense of right and wrong because the vast majority of your brethren don't.
 
2013-04-22 04:31:41 PM  

ha-ha-guy: This is the first time the ownership of those Bearcat things has been justifiable by the PD for a long while.  They actually make a case for being useful when hunting the IED brothers.


Sorry, I missed the Bearcat heroics.  Summary, please?
 
2013-04-22 04:32:54 PM  

duenor: On the other hand, I don't know if the younger brother was handled properly. What I definitely do not want to see is a population who is accustomed to "he's a terrorist, shoot on sight".


And where EXACTLY to you see this happening?
You don't.
If anything the US goes out of its way to ensure their rights aren't violated.
 
2013-04-22 04:34:27 PM  
If it was in New York City or LA the police would have shot at at least injured 20 other people in the process.
 
2013-04-22 04:35:11 PM  

anelson41: If you read her comment VERY carefully, you'll soon realize that you have no idea what she's talking about or what her point is.


And who's fault is that?

This was just a drunken rant.
 
2013-04-22 04:44:52 PM  
This was so needed, we may go back and do it several times

www.jcvandamme.net
 
2013-04-22 04:50:48 PM  
TheOtherMisterP: You automatically have Miranda rights. Having them read to you doesn't grant you magic legal powers. You always have the right to remain silent, regardless of whether or not you're reminded of it.

Every citizen should be aware of this. If TV has taught us anything, it's our Miranda rights. And if you haven't watched enough TV to be aware of it, then you don't deserve citizenship.

It drives me crazy that charges can be dropped because a cop forgets to recite something the scummy suspect already knows.



Really?  It bothers you to think that the police have a duty to inform an American citizen of his rights?  Hey, since we're already tossing around the "you don't deserve citizenship" judgement, wanna guess who I figure least deserves citizenship in this scenario?

/Not really
//But you are a bad person and you should feel ashamed.
 
2013-04-22 04:52:22 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: ciberido: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.

The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.

So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.


The Freudian is strong with this one.  But damn, you have a knack for making the crazy more interesting than most of the folks here.

You DO realize, don't you, that: (1) Freud has been pretty much discredited for the last couple of decades, and (2) your statement is a perfect example of what I said about "liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons."?



You DO realize, don't you, that you are projecting like a boss?
 
2013-04-22 05:00:04 PM  

zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/


Fox? quoting something out of context?

Shocking.
 
2013-04-22 05:02:43 PM  

RINO: IdBeCrazyIf: Isn't it coming out that he ran his brother over with the stolen SUV? Like cops were subduing the first brother and the second went all bowling for cops and instead missed the spare?

I don't think he missed. I've a Russian friend who fought in Chechnia. He claims that Chechen fighters commonly kill their wounded to prevent interrogations.


An interesting factoid, but I'm taking anything told to a soldier about their enemy with a big grain of salt. Every army uses propaganda like this to dehumanize their enemies in their soldiers' eyes.
 
2013-04-22 05:05:00 PM  
Take away the MEDICAL incision on the dead bombers abdomen, and that picture isn't bad at all.  Does she not realize that massive cut was done by medical personnel to access the thoracic organs?
 
2013-04-22 05:16:32 PM  
FTA


The United States that I love hunts down terrorists AND follows human rights during capture. Giving the worst criminal or terrorist the most dignity during captivity shows why we should not be feared as a nation and is the best antidote to terrorism.

We accept difference, as a nation, and we should champion our greatest strength - inclusivity - at these extreme moments if we want the character of the United States not to be judged harshly by the global community.  Once all the adrenaline subsides, I hope we will all be witnesses at the Internal Affairs investigation about undue force.
 Well, O'brien, I for one could give a good GD what the 'Globality' out there thinks of us. "Should not be feared as a nation." ??? I can't wrap my mind around that statement and ... undue force for the last line.

Sweet babbling Judas, I suggest O'brien stroll through South Chicago this next Saturday night and then tell me how she feels about undue force.

What mind of mush

/academic
 
2013-04-22 05:21:56 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Take away the MEDICAL incision on the dead bombers abdomen, and that picture isn't bad at all.  Does she not realize that massive cut was done by medical personnel to access the thoracic organs?


Well actually, probably not.  It looks like it was cleaned up by medical folks to try and help save his life.  Thorocotomys in general do not go against the lie of the ribs like that.  Also, if it was a medical intervention, the fat layers would be in line with the incision itself, not scraped back with a jagged edge that doesn't match the cut.

Just based upon the one photo, he probably arrived with a massive open trauma there and the medical staff started cutting back the broken chunks of flesh and bone to try and get better visual and manual access.  The fact that they didn't go much farther than just barely starting the central lines around his left and right subclavians means in all likelyhood he had no blood pressure, had bled out quite a bit, and death was called shortly after arrival.

/Also, this is not how one 'massages' the heart
 
2013-04-22 05:23:17 PM  
Just Another OC Homeless Guy: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.
Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.
The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.
So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.


Funny how he's projecting what every Conservative in this thread has been doing

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
.
 
2013-04-22 06:00:57 PM  

cwheelie: Tatsuma: City University of New York Professor Ruth

I immediately went 'Please not a Jew please not a Jew

O'Brien

Score!

on the other hand, her name is Ruth, so she probably is Jewish and just married an Irishman to piss off her mother.
just sayin'


Ironically (from her page at Amazon):   O'Brien lives with her second husband Frederic in 2 houses in New Jersey, where they are raising two teenagers. O'Brien would have been the second Ruth Ann Schwarz had her husband not adopted her father's name at their wedding uniting all of them under one name.
 
2013-04-22 06:09:17 PM  

dotvincent: Ironically (from her page at Amazon): O'Brien lives with her second husband Frederic in 2 houses in New Jersey, where they are raising two teenagers. O'Brien would have been the second Ruth Ann Schwarz had her husband not adopted her father's name at their wedding uniting all of them under one name.


So, she wrote this, and she got her husband to take her name? Urgh.
 
2013-04-22 06:12:28 PM  

rwfan: lolpix: rwfan: btw, wtf is she doing hunting down the death photos?

They've been going around the web. You practically have to make more of an effort to not see them. They're not particularly bad for a guy who's had a thoracotomy, been shot, and appears to have had a car run over his face. If anything, we should not be questioning the motivation behind looking at the images, and instead consider the appropriateness of officials unofficially posting morgue shots on their Twitter pages.

I guess I don't hang out at the right corners of the interwebs because I never even heard of that picture until just now.  I agree with your point about the officials posting morgue shots on Twitter though.


GIS the guys name, it is like 8 or 9 pics down and I only found it because of GISing the name earlier (I wasn't looking for it).  I agree with the other poster though the guy is pretty good shape considering everything he went through. He's certainly more intact than some of his victims.
 
2013-04-22 06:14:12 PM  

Ned Stark: They shut down an entire city and called out the farking national guard for a teenager with a pistol and some tubesocks full of gunpowder. Yes force was excessive. Everyone involved should be embarrassed.


Your concern is noted.  Really it is nothing to lose your head about though.
 
2013-04-22 06:24:56 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-22 06:39:22 PM  
  If only Air America was still around to cover this story.
www.politifake.org
 
2013-04-22 06:48:44 PM  

slayer199: Really?

I'm usually one to jump all over abuse of force...but in this case, they were wanted for a bombing that killed 3 innocent individuals and wounded or maimed over 100 more.  They killed a cop, they carjacked another individual...and led police on a chase.  They were clearly armed and dangerous.  Terrorism or not, the use of force was in this case was completely justified.


Boston PD also did not shoot up any innocent bystanders.  Not that I'm looking at any other PDs....
 
2013-04-22 07:50:11 PM  

ciberido: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: ciberido: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.

The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.

So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.


The Freudian is strong with this one.  But damn, you have a knack for making the crazy more interesting than most of the folks here.

You DO realize, don't you, that: (1) Freud has been pretty much discredited for the last couple of decades, and (2) your statement is a perfect example of what I said about "liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons."?


You DO realize, don't you, that you are projecting like a boss?


Projection? Really? That all you got (see above)? Sigh. You really can't seem to break out of that mold, can you?

But I'll accept the boss phrase as a compliment.

Like A Boss is a catchphrase often used in image macros or GIFs that feature a person completing an action with authority and finesse. Similar to ,
 
2013-04-22 07:55:50 PM  

Latinwolf: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.
Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.
The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.
So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.

Funny how he's projecting what every Conservative in this thread has been doing

[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 248x192]
.


Not being a conservative, I would agree with you. Well, not every conservative on this thread, but quite a few of them. As well as more than quite a few liberals (of which, it appears, you may be one. Hasty Generalization is, after all, an invalid argument).
 
2013-04-22 08:21:41 PM  

duenor: I have no sympathy for terrorists. However, I do have reservations about how we ought to handle such terrorists when we have them surrounded.

The older brother - fark him. He got what he deserved. When you start shooting at cops, you'll get what's coming to you.

On the other hand, I don't know if the younger brother was handled properly. What I definitely do not want to see is a population who is accustomed to "he's a terrorist, shoot on sight". It is far too easy for that to lead to a police state gestapo squad. I believe more efforts should have been made to take him alive as well as giving him plenty of time to surrender. But it seems like there was a lot of pressure on PD to get it over with quickly.

Then again, I don't have all the information. I am also not an expert. I can simply voice a concern. Regardless, the officers who chose to engage those two are brave men and women and I appreciate their efforts.


You have no idea how they captured him, do you? I mean, not at all?

They waited for him to fall unconscious once they located him. It took a long time. This is after he fired over twenty rounds at approaching police officers, who themselves were given direct orders NOT to return fire, but to retreat.

Seriously, where the hell are you coming from? lol
 
2013-04-22 08:31:52 PM  

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: If only Air America was still around to cover this story.
[www.politifake.org image 265x280]


(This is what conservatives actually think liberals are like)
 
2013-04-22 08:33:16 PM  
Yeah... I was kind of concerned about that at first... and then I remembered that they had bombs. I mean if you only bring guns to a bomb fight then you aren't using too much force.
 
2013-04-22 08:38:57 PM  

BafflerMeal: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Take away the MEDICAL incision on the dead bombers abdomen, and that picture isn't bad at all.  Does she not realize that massive cut was done by medical personnel to access the thoracic organs?

Well actually, probably not.  It looks like it was cleaned up by medical folks to try and help save his life.  Thorocotomys in general do not go against the lie of the ribs like that.  Also, if it was a medical intervention, the fat layers would be in line with the incision itself, not scraped back with a jagged edge that doesn't match the cut.

Just based upon the one photo, he probably arrived with a massive open trauma there and the medical staff started cutting back the broken chunks of flesh and bone to try and get better visual and manual access.  The fact that they didn't go much farther than just barely starting the central lines around his left and right subclavians means in all likelyhood he had no blood pressure, had bled out quite a bit, and death was called shortly after arrival.

/Also, this is not how one 'massages' the heart


Ah, that makes sense I guess, if you have any sort of medical knowledge, which I don't.  I was quoting what I heard one of the talking heads on CNN say.
 
2013-04-22 08:51:14 PM  
Maybe she's right. Maybe we were too hard on the guy... perhaps if we had showed him some love and some compassion for his cause, he could have turned his life around and been a positive influence on society...

24.media.tumblr.com

NAAAAAH!
 
2013-04-22 09:00:45 PM  
ts2.mm.bing.net
 
2013-04-22 09:26:11 PM  
That was actually a well thought out essay. I'm really disappointed that so many farkers failed reading comprehension. Her point is that as Americans we must hold ourselves to a higher standard and we should reflect on our actions within the context of our ideals. The one thing that separates us from all of the other countries is our belief in justice and our faith in the correctness of our system.

It is also important to remember the lessons of that last massacre in Boston 1770 where nine of the hated British soldiers were accused of murdering 5 colonists. These men though hated were given a fair trial and represented by the greatest American lawyer of his day.

This is how we do things, this is what's right and if we forgo justice for vengeance we will betray all of the ideals that make us great. Those things that make us Americans.
 
2013-04-22 10:06:42 PM  
Not enough force.

One of them is still alive.


for now.
 
2013-04-22 10:25:32 PM  
How is getting shot at not a natural consequence of their chosen actions?
 
2013-04-22 10:34:14 PM  
i still don't understand why the police shot him in the NECK if they wanted to question him......
 
2013-04-22 10:34:40 PM  
I have to wonder if people like this have ever been in an extremely tense, life or death situation. I would bet they don't realize what it takes to deal with a war.
 
2013-04-22 11:28:54 PM  
See Ya Next Tuesday
 
2013-04-23 12:37:35 AM  
I find it humorous that they shut down an entire city only to come up empty handed.  House to house searches, martial law, the whole shebang.  Then when they allow the people to safely (lol) leave their homes, an observant citizen finds the guy.  Had they not had the lockdown they would have had the guy hours sooner.

But no, it was not excessive at all.

/how do you shoot at a boat that many damn times and still miss SO much.  It boggles the imagination.
 
2013-04-23 12:57:36 AM  

Elbarfo: I find it humorous that they shut down an entire city only to come up empty handed.  House to house searches, martial law, the whole shebang.  Then when they allow the people to safely (lol) leave their homes, an observant citizen finds the guy.  Had they not had the lockdown they would have had the guy hours sooner.

But no, it was not excessive at all.

/how do you shoot at a boat that many damn times and still miss SO much.  It boggles the imagination.


I find it surprising that Boston is only 20 square blocks. Here I was thinking Boston was a much larger city. And also I find it remarkable that going door to door and asking if they can search the property is now the definition of "martial law,' which I always understood to mean military patrols on the street and the Army taking over the role of the civil authorities.

Fark is just amazing for teaching you things you never knew before.
 
2013-04-23 01:53:54 AM  

ciberido: FlashHarry: so-called "liberal" here. i think the force used was appropriate. the guy was carrying shiatloads of weapons and IEDs.

that being said, he is an AMERICAN CITIZEN and should be tried in a civilian court and afforded all the rights due to him.

Yeah.  It's one thing to use heavy force when you're dealing with someone who's well armed and already killed people.  It's a completely different kettle of fish to deny due process to someone who's lying in a hospital bed under guard.

And it's not even just about "playing nice" or "being fair."  Question Tsarnaev without giving him his Miranda warning first and it's pretty likely a good lawyer will make most of what he says impermissible.  IANAL but I have a feeling this is going to do more harm than good to the case, all concerns about fairness and due process aside.


This isn't some cop show on tv. there are plenty of exigent circumstance where not only it ok to not Mirandize a suspect, it's required to protect the safety of the public.

In your world it wouldn't be proper for the police to ask him if there were explosives or any other suspects hidden in the boat.

The questioning of that suspect was not only legal it was the definition of necessary. You couldn't give a better example in a Crim Law class.
 
2013-04-23 04:27:50 AM  
What a stupid person. First off, they're not from Chechnya. Then, because she's disturbed by the pictures means too much force was used? Did she happen to see at the marathon when the streets were painted red?  Did she consider that much of the damage to Tamerlan was done by his brother who ran him over?
 
2013-04-23 09:39:38 AM  

slayer199: Really?

I'm usually one to jump all over abuse of force...but in this case, they were wanted for a bombing that killed 3 innocent individuals and wounded or maimed over 100 more.  They killed a cop, they carjacked another individual...and led police on a chase.  They were clearly armed and dangerous.  Terrorism or not, the use of force was in this case was completely justified.


At least the cops didn't shoot up some newpaper delivery ladies and a bunch of other innocent people this time around.
 
2013-04-23 09:44:20 AM  

rwfan: I have to admit that when I saw the headline I thought it was going to be about the boat that the younger brother was hiding in.
[riehlworldview.com image 575x714]

I wonder how many holes are in it?  And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro?  (my guess is 0)


Wonder if the PD is gonna repair that boat, or is the owner just ass-out?
 
2013-04-23 12:25:16 PM  
All that police force and it took a citizen to find him.
 
2013-04-23 03:26:47 PM  

mark12A: Doesn't surprise me. Colleges in this country have pretty much degenerated into Marxist Indoctrination camps.


You're so cute when you spew stupid shiat.
 
2013-04-23 04:03:57 PM  

zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/


We accept difference, as a nation, and we should champion our greatest strength - inclusivity - at these extreme moments if we want the character of the United States not to be judged harshly by the global community.  Once all the adrenaline subsides, I hope we will all be witnesses at the Internal Affairs investigation about undue force.

No it doesn't.
 
2013-04-23 05:03:08 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Elbarfo: I find it humorous that they shut down an entire city only to come up empty handed.  House to house searches, martial law, the whole shebang.  Then when they allow the people to safely (lol) leave their homes, an observant citizen finds the guy.  Had they not had the lockdown they would have had the guy hours sooner.

But no, it was not excessive at all.

/how do you shoot at a boat that many damn times and still miss SO much.  It boggles the imagination.

I find it surprising that Boston is only 20 square blocks. Here I was thinking Boston was a much larger city. And also I find it remarkable that going door to door and asking if they can search the property is now the definition of "martial law,' which I always understood to mean military patrols on the street and the Army taking over the role of the civil authorities.

Fark is just amazing for teaching you things you never knew before.


I'm glad you could learn something, as the National Guard was indeed present during all of this.  Nor were the searches in any way voluntary....at least for those who didn't volunteer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8&feature=youtu.be

There, learn something else.

If you (and all the others on here who agree) really think this is an appropriate response, then I fear for all of us, and for this country.
 
2013-04-23 07:18:04 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: ciberido: FlashHarry: so-called "liberal" here. i think the force used was appropriate. the guy was carrying shiatloads of weapons and IEDs.

that being said, he is an AMERICAN CITIZEN and should be tried in a civilian court and afforded all the rights due to him.

Yeah.  It's one thing to use heavy force when you're dealing with someone who's well armed and already killed people.  It's a completely different kettle of fish to deny due process to someone who's lying in a hospital bed under guard.

And it's not even just about "playing nice" or "being fair."  Question Tsarnaev without giving him his Miranda warning first and it's pretty likely a good lawyer will make most of what he says impermissible.  IANAL but I have a feeling this is going to do more harm than good to the case, all concerns about fairness and due process aside.

This isn't some cop show on tv.


Next time try putting the insult at the END of your post.  Might sucker more people into reading it under the false assumption that you're trying to hold a reasonable conversation.
 
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