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(Fox News)   And here we go: a CUNY professor is complaining about "too much force" being used against the Tsarnaev brothers   (nation.foxnews.com) divider line 196
    More: Stupid, Douglas A-20 Havoc, Boston Police Department  
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8251 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2013 at 2:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-22 03:26:26 PM

vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.


Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.

The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.

So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.
 
2013-04-22 03:27:23 PM

AdamK: ehm... they went after the guys with the intent to capture if possible, the number of boots on the ground is a semantic

it's not like they showed up with t-1000's and drones obliterating everything in sight, get a grip, this isn't the LAPD



Hey, just what you see, pal.
 
2013-04-22 03:27:35 PM
btw, wtf is she doing hunting down the death photos?
 
2013-04-22 03:29:22 PM
If this results in an acquittal, I will CUNY PUNYT someone into next week.
 
2013-04-22 03:29:55 PM
Tatsuma: City University of New York Professor Ruth

I immediately went 'Please not a Jew please not a Jew

O'Brien

Score!


on the other hand, her name is Ruth, so she probably is Jewish and just married an Irishman to piss off her mother.
just sayin'
 
2013-04-22 03:30:05 PM

Tatsuma: What if it was a story about a drunken, pantless man stumbling in front of Michelle Obama and asking her to pull his finger, and found out his name was O'Brien, I bet you'd feel differently wouldn't ya?


Woah! I thought we agreed we'd never mention that little episode again? You're the dick who brought the gallon of Manacheviz.
 
2013-04-22 03:30:37 PM
The liberal left loves the muslim terrorists and are their best friends and protectors.  They can always be counted on to defend their actions and protect them from justice.  Bullshiat, like from this "professor" is in stark contrast to how liberals want peaceful demonstrators outside of an abortion clinic treated.
 
2013-04-22 03:31:02 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Just like your fellow Republiturds who don't want us going after terrorists with drones.


Again, snark meter...sheesh.
 
2013-04-22 03:31:58 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.

The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.

So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.



The Freudian is strong with this one.  But damn, you have a knack for making the crazy more interesting than most of the folks here.
 
2013-04-22 03:32:35 PM

FarkinHostile: Woah! I thought we agreed we'd never mention that little episode again? You're the dick who brought the gallon of Manacheviz.


Sorry!

Had to drink some of that vile vile syrup over Passover because I was in the middle of nowhere and couldn't find other kosher wine.

Man is that ever disgusting
 
2013-04-22 03:34:39 PM

neversubmit: Too much force and you'll end up with Trek Wars

[rack.0.mshcdn.com image 600x400]

Seems cool at first but no one knows how it will turn out.


Dammit, I've always wanted to see something like that. Hey, are there at least any published novels mixing Star Wars and Star Trek? Or will I have to find fanfic?

/always wondered how it would have gone if Star Trek would have budded off another series starring Nimoy as the Evil Bearded Spock against the Empire and it's agonizers....
//big fan of series crossbreeds.
 
2013-04-22 03:35:53 PM
 
2013-04-22 03:36:31 PM

Thunderpipes: Will be the general feeling of most college profs. Have to remember how incredibly left wing crazy most are.


This.
 
2013-04-22 03:38:56 PM
 
2013-04-22 03:39:04 PM

offmymeds: zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/

I'm surprised that Fox even provided that link.

[www.auburnmedia.com image 245x237]

"Facts? I ain't got to show you no stinking facts!"


Racist.
 
2013-04-22 03:39:45 PM

lordaction: The liberal left loves the muslim terrorists and are their best friends and protectors.  They can always be counted on to defend their actions and protect them from justice.  Bullshiat, like from this "professor" is in stark contrast to how liberals want peaceful demonstrators outside of an abortion clinic treated.


So that explains why Obama had bin Laden killed, consistently takes out every #2 in Al Queda, and actually goes after the terrorists instead of invading unrelated countries.

"Me am Bizarro!"
 
2013-04-22 03:41:06 PM

lordaction: The liberal left loves the muslim terrorists and are their best friends and protectors.  They can always be counted on to defend their actions and protect them from justice.  Bullshiat, like from this "professor" is in stark contrast to how liberals want peaceful demonstrators outside of an abortion clinic treated.


As I said, emotion-based thinking.
 
2013-04-22 03:41:40 PM

ciberido: FlashHarry: so-called "liberal" here. i think the force used was appropriate. the guy was carrying shiatloads of weapons and IEDs.

that being said, he is an AMERICAN CITIZEN and should be tried in a civilian court and afforded all the rights due to him.

Yeah.  It's one thing to use heavy force when you're dealing with someone who's well armed and already killed people.  It's a completely different kettle of fish to deny due process to someone who's lying in a hospital bed under guard.

And it's not even just about "playing nice" or "being fair."  Question Tsarnaev without giving him his Miranda warning first and it's pretty likely a good lawyer will make most of what he says impermissible.  IANAL but I have a feeling this is going to do more harm than good to the case, all concerns about fairness and due process aside.


Public safety exception would allow some of what is said to be used.  However, they likely don't need a confession as they have all the evidence they need from the various crime scenes and his home.  The police are more interested in finding out if there are others involved or any other bombs.  If it leads to something else, they can likely find enough for conviction via their own acts.  Or you know, fabricate what they need (I kid, I kid).
 
2013-04-22 03:42:54 PM
Can we autoban people who link to infowar, or at least a script that changes the url for www.ilovemidgetporn.com ?
 
2013-04-22 03:43:05 PM
I hate the whole reading of Miranda rights thing.

You automatically have Miranda rights. Having them read to you doesn't grant you magic legal powers. You always have the right to remain silent, regardless of whether or not you're reminded of it.

Every citizen should be aware of this. If TV has taught us anything, it's our Miranda rights. And if you haven't watched enough TV to be aware of it, then you don't deserve citizenship.

It drives me crazy that charges can be dropped because a cop forgets to recite something the scummy suspect already knows.

/doesn't exactly apply in the Boston case, but still
 
2013-04-22 03:43:10 PM
One could make an argument that homeland security is ungainly and excessively over militarized for its mission, but I don't see how they used too much force in the apprehension.

You had a case of the city being infested with two authentic, trained, grade A, bomb making terrorists.
Things like this are the reason we buy guns. The reason we pay men with guns to patrol the street. The reason we have men with guns invade third world nations and shoot the place up.

Boston's lucky this problem got taken care of with minimal damage.
If the cops took out a few houses in the process, some would still call that a reasonable response.
 
2013-04-22 03:44:02 PM
Her original post was a little frenetic. When she finally arrived at a point (after bouncing around like a racquetball in a zero G court) I agreed with it. I think her final point: that we need to not flip out, but instead we need to embrace those things we profess to believe so passionately and rationally prosecute this crime (and do it clearly and openly because the world is watching), is a valid point.

I question her skill in getting to her point. I doubt this unfocused treatise on American justice will be remembered by anyone once it scrolls off Fark's main page. That said, I don't she's particularly foolish for having attempted to write it out. I think she had some valid points about making sure we don't prove ourselves hypocrites to the rest of the world. We've done quite enough of that in the last dozen years.

But the whole "too much force" thing--nah, not so much. They were throwing bombs and killing policemen. THEY escalated; the police responded in kind.
 
2013-04-22 03:44:04 PM
"Boston has great resonance for terrorists.  Selecting the Boston Marathon has great impact and it is going to be felt among the upper middle class: healthy, white, high-income earners who are non-smokers and non-drinkers (though maybe pancake-and-syrup eaters) - those who attend the Boston Marathon or watch it."

WTF pancakes?  What the holy hell is she going on about?
 
2013-04-22 03:44:37 PM

ciberido: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: vernonFL: Of course all Liberals think like this. Libs will side with the terrorists EVERY time.

Obviously not true. However many liberals (and an increasing number of conservatives) tend to be emotion-based in their thinking processes, and thereby arrive at invalid conclusions. The truth if this is obvious here on Fark, as it seems to be the liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons.

The result is that extreme liberals sometimes do end up supporting terrorism, at least tacitly. One example of this is the apparently mindless support by many liberals for radical Islam. Why? Well, one theory might be that many extreme liberals, there being a large Venn overlap with Atheism, fear and mock Christians, particularly Fundamentalists. Because of their emotion-based thinking, they then - even in the face of hard evidence - tend to defend radical Islam. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend," etc.

So, yeah, you will find occasional libtards who side with terrorists.


The Freudian is strong with this one.  But damn, you have a knack for making the crazy more interesting than most of the folks here.


You DO realize, don't you, that: (1) Freud has been pretty much discredited for the last couple of decades, and (2) your statement is a perfect example of what I said about "liberals who most use ad hominem and other illogical rhetorical weapons."?
 
2013-04-22 03:44:54 PM

notmtwain: Well, how was he killed?

http://www.infowars.com/witness-tamerlan-tsarnaev-run-over-by-cops-n ot -his-brother/


Wait, Alex Jones is credible now?  When did this happen?
 
2013-04-22 03:46:23 PM

ciberido: slayer199: Really?

I'm usually one to jump all over abuse of force...but in this case, they were wanted for a bombing that killed 3 innocent individuals and wounded or maimed over 100 more.  They killed a cop, they carjacked another individual...and led police on a chase.  They were clearly armed and dangerous.  Terrorism or not, the use of force was in this case was completely justified.

Personally, I'm much less concerned about the amount of forced used to capture them than I am about the decision to not read the one they captured alive his Miranda rights.


You know what happens if they don't read him his rights but question him anyway? The evidence coming from the interrogation is excluded from trial, as is any evidence that is discovered as a result of the interrogation barring certain exceptions.

If the police and prosecutor think they can convict without a confession, let's say due to the physical evidence and the fact he was involved in a massive shootout with the police, they can go ahead and interrogate anyway without worrying about the evidence from the interrogation being excluded.

Your right against self-incrimination is only impinged upon if the cops are trying to get info to use against you in court. If they are instead trying to get you to tell them where more bombs might be hidden concerns of admissibility can take a back seat to a need for information that is not intended for use at trial.

So tell me, which of his constitutional rights were violated if his interrogation, prior to being Mirandized, is excluded from trial?
 
2013-04-22 03:48:28 PM

syberpud: Wait, Alex Jones is credible now? When did this happen?


If Alex Jones said the sky is blue, I'd actually go out to check. And if it was, I'd schedule a visit to the doctor because my eyes are most likely farked
 
2013-04-22 03:48:34 PM
Wait...

deadwildroses.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-22 03:49:58 PM

rwfan: btw, wtf is she doing hunting down the death photos?


They've been going around the web. You practically have to make more of an effort to not see them. They're not particularly bad for a guy who's had a thoracotomy, been shot, and appears to have had a car run over his face. If anything, we should not be questioning the motivation behind looking at the images, and instead consider the appropriateness of officials unofficially posting morgue shots on their Twitter pages.
 
2013-04-22 03:51:36 PM

FC Exile: Brother Nathanel Thinks so as well.  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=376_1366621682


Damn. That was awesome. He really seemed to be enjoying himself, too, in a sort of "LOL, told you so" way.
 
2013-04-22 03:54:56 PM
I have to admit that when I saw the headline I thought it was going to be about the boat that the younger brother was hiding in.
riehlworldview.com

I wonder how many holes are in it?  And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro?  (my guess is 0)
 
2013-04-22 03:56:46 PM
There is a reason she is a CUNY professor.
 
2013-04-22 03:56:59 PM
"Indeed, this week at the CUNY Graduate Center, we are having our last event for a fellowship I co-direct, funded by the former Secretary of the Treasury, Andrew Mellon, whose foundation started the John E. Sawyer Seminars on the Comparative Study of Cultures."

The entire rant was just a plug for these things, which have no other reason to be mentioned.  We've been trolled.
 
2013-04-22 03:58:03 PM

SandmanEsq: There is a reason she is a CUNY professor.


i.qkme.me
 
2013-04-22 03:58:56 PM

BarkingUnicorn: "Indeed, this week at the CUNY Graduate Center, we are having our last event for a fellowship I co-direct, funded by the former Secretary of the Treasury, Andrew Mellon, whose foundation started the John E. Sawyer Seminars on the Comparative Study of Cultures."

The entire rant was just a plug for these things, which have no other reason to be mentioned.  We've been trolled.


Yes, yes we have.
 
2013-04-22 03:59:31 PM

rwfan: I wonder how many holes are in it? And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro? (my guess is 0)


0, because bullets don't magically travel through everything. Does that mean they should not have shot at him when he was firing at them?
 
2013-04-22 04:01:14 PM
Having read what we're calling an "article", I think her analysis of the image is probably mistaken.

In the photos, Tamerlane has a lot of deep bruising on his shoulder and the side of face. This bruising looks like the result of a single, large impact. It looks exactly like what a layman such as myself might imagine the kind of bruise getting run over by a car might leave.

He also has a large, open gash on the side of his rib cage. The cut is clean and clearly exposes the chest cavity. This seems consistent with having your chest cracked open for a heart massage or other invasive emergency procedure involving your torso.

He has some general bruising and what appear to be a few small arms entry wounds with no particularly heinous exit wound blowout.

If you're excitable, you might imagine he was beaten up really bad or something, but his injuries do seem consistent with the official story.
 
2013-04-22 04:02:28 PM

Tatsuma: rwfan: I wonder how many holes are in it? And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro? (my guess is 0)

0, because bullets don't magically travel through everything. Does that mean they should not have shot at him when he was firing at them?


They sure as shiat go through lightweight fiberglass readily.
 
2013-04-22 04:02:47 PM

SandmanEsq: There is a reason she is a CUNY professor.


jst3p: SandmanEsq: There is a reason she is a CUNY professor.

[i.qkme.me image 600x824]



No! Bad! Bad Misogynous!  You may not know this but you can disagree with someone without being hateful.
 
2013-04-22 04:04:24 PM

lolpix: They sure as shiat go through lightweight fiberglass readily.


We don't know what else was behind him and the bullets
 
2013-04-22 04:04:49 PM

lolpix: rwfan: btw, wtf is she doing hunting down the death photos?

They've been going around the web. You practically have to make more of an effort to not see them. They're not particularly bad for a guy who's had a thoracotomy, been shot, and appears to have had a car run over his face. If anything, we should not be questioning the motivation behind looking at the images, and instead consider the appropriateness of officials unofficially posting morgue shots on their Twitter pages.


I guess I don't hang out at the right corners of the interwebs because I never even heard of that picture until just now.  I agree with your point about the officials posting morgue shots on Twitter though.
 
2013-04-22 04:06:12 PM
The United States that I love hunts down terrorists AND follows human rights during capture.

I think she was going for the giggles. Drone her ass, just in case.
 
2013-04-22 04:06:47 PM

ciberido: slayer199: Really?

I'm usually one to jump all over abuse of force...but in this case, they were wanted for a bombing that killed 3 innocent individuals and wounded or maimed over 100 more.  They killed a cop, they carjacked another individual...and led police on a chase.  They were clearly armed and dangerous.  Terrorism or not, the use of force was in this case was completely justified.

Personally, I'm much less concerned about the amount of forced used to capture them than I am about the decision to not read the one they captured alive his Miranda rights.


The guy has been unconscious or otherwise unable to signal comprehension. Miranda rights aren't about reading you a couple of things, they're about explaining rights you have and ensuring you understand them. That's specifically why part of Miranda is the question "Do you understand these rights?"

Until he can legitimately answer the question (awake, aware, and not on a farkton of drugs), there's no reason to read him his rights.
 
2013-04-22 04:07:18 PM

Tatsuma: rwfan: I wonder how many holes are in it? And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro? (my guess is 0)

0, because bullets don't magically travel through everything. Does that mean they should not have shot at him when he was firing at them?


Well the way I heard it he put the gun in his mouth, shot and missed.  All the other shots came from the cops.  Of course I could be wrong.
 
2013-04-22 04:09:04 PM
If you read her comment VERY carefully, you'll soon realize that you have no idea what she's talking about or what her point is.
 
2013-04-22 04:09:50 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: Isn't it coming out that he ran his brother over with the stolen SUV? Like cops were subduing the first brother and the second went all bowling for cops and instead missed the spare?


I don't think he missed. I've a Russian friend who fought in Chechnia. He claims that Chechen fighters commonly kill their wounded to prevent interrogations.
 
2013-04-22 04:13:45 PM

ciberido: Personally, I'm much less concerned about the amount of forced used to capture them than I am about the decision to not read the one they captured alive his Miranda rights.


They don't need to read him his Miranda rights unless he's being questioned specifically about a crime.  Then there are some exceptions to that rule (exigent circumstances, etc).  The government could argue in this case that they needed to determine if any additional "sleeper cells" existed or if the brothers were acting alone.  Miranda is way overplayed and misunderstood.

As a former LEO, one of our favorite tricks was after arresting someone is to NOT talk about the crime or why they were arrested.  Talk about weather, area sports teams, etc...talk about anything.  People would get comfortable and then start incriminating themselves.  Never had anything tossed because a suspect wasn't Mirandized...because they weren't questioned or a focus of an investigation.
 
2013-04-22 04:18:38 PM
Doesn't surprise me. Colleges in this country have pretty much degenerated into Marxist Indoctrination camps.
 
2013-04-22 04:23:09 PM

zedster: Surprise the entirety of her post says something different
http://ruthobrien.org/a-day-of-terror/


Actually it is but you have to read to the last sentence to find it:

FTFA: 'Once all the adrenaline subsides, I hope we will all be witnesses at the Internal Affairs investigation about undue force.'

What a vile appalling comment.
And what a stupid twunt for thinking this.
What this idiot doesn't understand is that if she was in an A-Q controlled region she would most likely be killed for knowing how to read let alone for having any kind of 'higher' education.
 
2013-04-22 04:24:54 PM

rwfan: I have to admit that when I saw the headline I thought it was going to be about the boat that the younger brother was hiding in.
[riehlworldview.com image 575x714]

I wonder how many holes are in it?  And how many of those shots actually hit IED-bro?  (my guess is 0)


I heard they went less-than-lethal which may be consistent with the pic. Those rounds can kill tho.
 
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