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(RealClearPolitics)   Californians are undereducated, unemployed, homeless and violent. Also, their sidewalks stink   (realclearpolitics.com) divider line 73
    More: Obvious, Californians, grocers, reusable bags, WIC, sidewalks, homeless, Environmental Quality, unemployment  
•       •       •

2212 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Apr 2013 at 12:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-22 11:26:26 AM  
When making laws, California's lawmakers often ignore the most abiding of all laws, the law of unintended consequences. But in this state, if there's one group Sacramento can push around, it's not people who make the streets unseemly, and it's not the menaces to society; it's hardworking taxpayers who buy things. They are the softest target.

We're talking about f*cking bags here, right?
 
2013-04-22 11:27:43 AM  
That's why the Romans cooked up the term "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware).

Perhaps invoking an empire that fell due to rot from within is less than compelling to your point, Dear Author...
 
2013-04-22 11:30:56 AM  

sigdiamond2000: When making laws, California's lawmakers often ignore the most abiding of all laws, the law of unintended consequences. But in this state, if there's one group Sacramento can push around, it's not people who make the streets unseemly, and it's not the menaces to society; it's hardworking taxpayers who buy things. They are the softest target.

We're talking about f*cking bags here, right?


There are so many other problems that it's useless to pass anything else until the homeless are housed, the hungry are fed, and unemployed find full employment. That's why we shouldn't pass anything looking like gun control, because they are useless, because criminals already have guns. Better to do nothing, and watch it all burn, than do even the smallest thing. Truly, she has captured the gravitas of her subject matter. She is a lone candle in the dark, that the unwashed masses must turn to, the single clarion bell in the night to lead the lost ships to harbor...
 
2013-04-22 11:35:14 AM  
subby, you misspelled Mississippi.
 
2013-04-22 11:47:14 AM  

sigdiamond2000: When making laws, California's lawmakers often ignore the most abiding of all laws, the law of unintended consequences. But in this state, if there's one group Sacramento can push around, it's not people who make the streets unseemly, and it's not the menaces to society; it's hardworking taxpayers who buy things. They are the softest target.

We're talking about f*cking bags here, right?


They'll flip their shiat when they realize how much extra they're paying for bottle deposits.
 
2013-04-22 12:29:38 PM  
After reading this derp the author sounds like she'd make homeless into reusable bags.
 
2013-04-22 12:31:23 PM  
They've gotten rid of plastic bags here in Seattle a while ago.  Nobody has died yet.
 
2013-04-22 12:32:59 PM  

Fart_Machine: After reading this derp the author sounds like she'd make homeless into reusable bags.


She basically tries to be the SF Chronicle's version of Anne Coulter. She usually comes off looking just as biatchy, but with half the derp factor.
 
2013-04-22 12:36:13 PM  
"When Sacramento lawmakers see an opportunity to stick it to employed people who buy things, nothing can stop them."

Stopped reading there.
 
2013-04-22 12:36:31 PM  
A bag tax has been around in many other places for years, it's not like this is a step into the unknown.
 
2013-04-22 12:36:33 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: They've gotten rid of plastic bags here in Seattle a while ago.  Nobody has died yet.


It's been a catastrophe. I haven't been able to change the kitty litter for months, because I have nothing to put it in.
 
2013-04-22 12:37:44 PM  
She should be more worried about when her Preparation H becomes contaminated from a soiled reusable shopping bag.
 
2013-04-22 12:38:48 PM  
I miss my neighbors burning plastic bags in their trash pile fires outside my house in rural Tanzania.  Those were the days...

//csb
 
2013-04-22 12:38:49 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: Fart_Machine: After reading this derp the author sounds like she'd make homeless into reusable bags.

She basically tries to be the SF Chronicle's version of Anne Coulter. She usually comes off looking just as biatchy, but with half the derp factor.


Exactly--her column 'token conservative' is usually a really, really weak attack on the liberal policies in California--and I mean weak. She used a scene from "Red Dawn" as an example of why gun owners fear registries.
 
2013-04-22 12:38:50 PM  
Whoa. A buddy of mine is all of the above except violent.
 
2013-04-22 12:39:55 PM  

sigdiamond2000: When making laws, California's lawmakers often ignore the most abiding of all laws, the law of unintended consequences. But in this state, if there's one group Sacramento can push around, it's not people who make the streets unseemly, and it's not the menaces to society; it's hardworking taxpayers who buy things. They are the softest target.

We're talking about f*cking bags here, right?


They also make the point constantly that guns laws are futile because only law abiding citizens will follow them. Doesn't then apply to all laws then?
 
2013-04-22 12:40:15 PM  

BMulligan: It's been a catastrophe. I haven't been able to change the kitty litter for months, because I have nothing to put it in.


Haha!  This is true.  We used to use the old plastic bags to pick up our Great Danes leavings but fortunately my wife bought a life time supply of the wrong sized trash bags for our kitchen waste can so good luck with that, sucker!  I am farking golden.
 
2013-04-22 12:40:18 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: They've gotten rid of plastic bags here in Seattle a while ago.  Nobody has died yet.


Every time I go to visit my family in California the fact that I can't just buy something and put it in a farking bag is goddamn annoying as piss.
 
2013-04-22 12:40:52 PM  
But in this state, if there's one group Sacramento can push around, it's not people who make the streets unseemly, and it's not the menaces to society; it's hardworking taxpayers who buy things. They are the softest target.

This!  I wish I was homeless.  They get all the breaks.
 
2013-04-22 12:46:39 PM  
standard response:  Yes, it sucks in California, please don't move or even visit here.  Who wants to play golf in the middle of winter in 65 degree weather anyway?
 
2013-04-22 12:54:35 PM  
I look around California and see serious problems -- undereducated children, one of the country's highest unemployment rates, homeless people and violent crime.

How long do you think it takes to write a 614 word diatribe about plastic grocery bags?

I'm a little curious because I'd like to know how much time Debra Saunders spent doing this instead of, I dunno, volunteering at a soup kitchen or offering to mentor a student or read to children at the local library.
 
2013-04-22 12:57:22 PM  
A California Senate Environmental Quality Committee analysis of Padilla's SB 405 discusses the possible "public health implications," as reusable bags "can harbor bacteria such as coliform bacteria." Washing bags can help, the analysis noted; alas, a study found that 97 percent of Californians and Arizonans said they never wash their bags.

So wash the bags. Personal responsibility and such.

No worries. SB 405 would require reusable bags to include cleaning care instructions. Because people always read the many warnings and instructions mandated by state law

Again, personal responsibility.

-- yes, that was sarcasm -- the Padilla warning just might reduce the number of consumers who don't wash their bags so that -- what? -- maybe only 96 percent of consumers will be at risk of getting sick from their unwashed reused bags.
This is like some bizarre reverse nanny state argument. "We're all too stupid for reusable bags, plz halp us"

Wtf is this woman's problem?
 
2013-04-22 12:57:54 PM  
Well Debra Saunders, stop throwing your plastic bags all over the streets (and get your friends, neighbors, and the entire rest of the city to join you) and maybe nobody would consider banning the things.

Seattle banned them a few years ago.  People dealt with the fact that they're now either spending 5 cents for the privilege of bringing home more refuse with their groceries, or have manned up and gotten themselves the reusable bags.  Nobody burst out into flames.  Nobody was harmed by the legislation.  Inconvenienced, sure, but we also don't have to walk along streets lined with plastic when we leave our homes.
 
2013-04-22 01:00:02 PM  

BMulligan: Soup4Bonnie: They've gotten rid of plastic bags here in Seattle a while ago.  Nobody has died yet.

It's been a catastrophe. I haven't been able to change the kitty litter for months, because I have nothing to put it in.


I add the kitty litter to my almost-full kitchen garbage and take it all out at once.  My old plastic bag cabinet now has room for other things.
 
2013-04-22 01:00:45 PM  
I'm in Los Angeles today.  It smells like an airport runway, jet fuel stenches in the cabin, and lights flickering at random.

I'm in Los Angeles today.  Garbage cans comprise the medians of freeways always creeping, even when the population's sleeping.

And I can't see why you'd want to live here.
 
2013-04-22 01:03:55 PM  

The Third Man: I'm in Los Angeles today.  It smells like an airport runway, jet fuel stenches in the cabin, and lights flickering at random.

I'm in Los Angeles today.  Garbage cans comprise the medians of freeways always creeping, even when the population's sleeping.

And I can't see why you'd want to live here.


Yeah, and billboards reach past the tallest buildings
 
2013-04-22 01:06:15 PM  
Farking Subby is a liar, there are no sidewalks in CA. They take the car from one side of the parking lot to the other, like real Americans.
 
2013-04-22 01:06:20 PM  

TimonC346: RoyFokker'sGhost: Fart_Machine: After reading this derp the author sounds like she'd make homeless into reusable bags.

She basically tries to be the SF Chronicle's version of Anne Coulter. She usually comes off looking just as biatchy, but with half the derp factor.

Exactly--her column 'token conservative' is usually a really, really weak attack on the liberal policies in California--and I mean weak. She used a scene from "Red Dawn" as an example of why gun owners fear registries.


When I first moved to California 20 years ago, Debra Saunders wasn't nearly as derpy as she is now. Her flirtations with a center-right position didn't last more than 4 or 5 years. Once Pete Wilson took office and veered hard right, she went with him and never came back.
 
2013-04-22 01:08:08 PM  
Haters gonna hate.
 
2013-04-22 01:08:54 PM  

skozlaw: I look around California and see serious problems -- undereducated children, one of the country's highest unemployment rates, homeless people and violent crime.

How long do you think it takes to write a 614 word diatribe about plastic grocery bags?

I'm a little curious because I'd like to know how much time Debra Saunders spent doing this instead of, I dunno, volunteering at a soup kitchen or offering to mentor a student or read to children at the local library.


Hmmm.   Also, let's see.   California:
18th in violent crime and dropping
In the top five for homeless numbers, can't seem to find a percent of population ranking/list...
 
2013-04-22 01:09:07 PM  
We're talking about plastic bags. It's not that hard.

Do you eat seafood? if so, you should support getting rid of single-use bags.

PLASTIC NEVER GOES AWAY. It winds up in your food in itty-bitty pieces.

http://www.surfrider.org/programs/entry/rise-above-plastics
 
2013-04-22 01:10:14 PM  
I spent a week in Hawaii in January, two different islands, and didn't see a single plastic bag the whole time I was there.

Did I miss an article suggesting we go ahead and give Hawaii to the Japanese? Or some other related outrage?

/ca resident
//almost as if states with lots of coastline see firsthand the negative environmental effects of plastic bags.
 
2013-04-22 01:12:06 PM  
I'm not homeless.  (yet)
 
2013-04-22 01:12:54 PM  

Incog_Neeto: Every time I go to visit my family in California the fact that I can't just buy something and put it in a farking bag is goddamn annoying as piss.


You should just stop.  It's upsetting to you and your family never loved you anyway.
 
2013-04-22 01:15:43 PM  

Incog_Neeto: Soup4Bonnie: They've gotten rid of plastic bags here in Seattle a while ago.  Nobody has died yet.

Every time I go to visit my family in California the fact that I can't just buy something and put it in a farking bag is goddamn annoying as piss.


You *know* that you need to bring your own bags, yet you don't and you still feel the need to complain about it on the internet?  Are your initials D.S.?
 
2013-04-22 01:18:29 PM  
If forty cents per grocery store trip is absolutely SHATTERING your budget, you may seriously want to consider a lifestyle change.

/seriously, I live here, it is NOT a big deal
 
2013-04-22 01:33:06 PM  

GWSuperfan: We're talking about plastic


4.bp.blogspot.com

Plastic!
 
2013-04-22 01:34:57 PM  
What's ironic about this bag situation is that banning plastic bags is actually worse for the environment. People for the most part don't bring their own bags, and paper bag consumption has gone way up since the plastic bag ban in SF was instituted. Paper bags use way more resources (water, land, etc) to produce, more material per bag is necessary relative to plastic, and the production of paper bags produces more greenhouse gas emissions than plastic.

I live under the tyranny of the plastic bag ban, and I tell you it's farking annoying as shiat.
 
2013-04-22 01:37:49 PM  
The plastic beaches of Midway, impossible to clean.

Fark plastic bags. In a few years, this will be most coastlines in the world.
 
2013-04-22 01:37:55 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Incog_Neeto: Soup4Bonnie: They've gotten rid of plastic bags here in Seattle a while ago.  Nobody has died yet.

Every time I go to visit my family in California the fact that I can't just buy something and put it in a farking bag is goddamn annoying as piss.

You *know* that you need to bring your own bags, yet you don't and you still feel the need to complain about it on the internet?  Are your initials D.S.?


I remember after the first time I go out, however having to remember to bring my own bags isn't any less obnoxious. On the plus side it makes me keep an eye out for the same ineffective BS laws that anyone tries to pass around here.
 
2013-04-22 01:39:34 PM  
blog.sfgate.com

Resting place of the Devil Incarnate.
 
2013-04-22 01:40:58 PM  

Incog_Neeto: having to remember to bring my own bags isn't any less obnoxious.


Keep them in the car. Grab them on your way into the store. Put them back in the car after you put your groceries away at home.

/I've been doing it for more than a decade.
//It's not hard.
 
2013-04-22 01:44:05 PM  

tortilla burger: What's ironic about this bag situation is that banning plastic bags is actually worse for the environment. People for the most part don't bring their own bags, and paper bag consumption has gone way up since the plastic bag ban in SF was instituted. Paper bags use way more resources (water, land, etc) to produce, more material per bag is necessary relative to plastic, and the production of paper bags produces more greenhouse gas emissions than plastic.

I live under the tyranny of the plastic bag ban, and I tell you it's farking annoying as shiat.


There's nothing "ironic" about it, nor is what you said actually true. Plastic bags dont break down (see: the Pacific trash heap), and are made of petroleum. Further, you're simply parroting her argument by using different words: people are too lazy to bring their own bags.
 
2013-04-22 01:51:43 PM  

GWSuperfan: Incog_Neeto: having to remember to bring my own bags isn't any less obnoxious.

Keep them in the car. Grab them on your way into the store. Put them back in the car after you put your groceries away at home.

/I've been doing it for more than a decade.
//It's not hard.


Same here. I never understood the butthurt over removing plastic bags or incandescent light bulbs but I guess people have to be outraged over something.
 
2013-04-22 01:57:40 PM  
i90.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-22 01:57:53 PM  

Incog_Neeto: I remember after the first time I go out, however having to remember to bring my own bags isn't any less obnoxious. On the plus side it makes me keep an eye out for the same ineffective BS laws that anyone tries to pass around here.


Jesus Christ, just put some reusable bags in the car and use them by choice all the time you whiny biatch.

Life is not really this hard.
 
2013-04-22 02:09:37 PM  
I like how all of her complaints are completely invalid.

Making people sick?! Tell them to wash their shopping bags!

Paper bags use more water and energy to make than plastic?! Only when you ignore the step of harvesting the original resource.
 
2013-04-22 02:09:42 PM  
Generally, if there's tree-farm paper bags, I'd prefer them to plastic. Recyclable, made from a resource we can replenish, and most importantly, if my cats want to go into the bag I don't have to worry about it.


I'd like to see an overall reduction of plastics. It's useful - almost too useful - but if it gets into the environment it's a foreign object that can't be dealt with, unless some plastic/petroleum eating bacteria form or something. And that's bad for us...
 
2013-04-22 02:12:11 PM  
FTFA: No worries. SB 405 would require reusable bags to include cleaning care instructions. Because people always read the many warnings and instructions mandated by state law -- yes, that was sarcasm -- the Padilla warning just might reduce the number of consumers who don't wash their bags so that -- what? -- maybe only 96 percent of consumers will be at risk of getting sick from their unwashed reused bags.

I have the same problem with wearing clothes. Big daddy government says "Oh no, taxpayer, you have to be clothed if you want to walk these streets," but what is he doing for me on this washing situation? Maybe only 96 percent of people wearing clothes will be at risk of getting sick from their unwashed reused clothes.

Or you could just throw the reusable bags in when you wash your supply of bootstraps.
 
2013-04-22 02:18:00 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: Fart_Machine: After reading this derp the author sounds like she'd make homeless into reusable bags.

She basically tries to be the SF Chronicle's version of Anne Coulter. She usually comes off looking just as biatchy, but with half the derp factor.


This.

I grew up reading the Chron, and she's... too bland to be truly awful, but her "writing" isn't worth the fishwrap it's printed on.

Damn I miss Herb Caen.

I left my hometown of SF a decade ago and never looked back, including reading the Chron. I miss it sometimes; even hate-reading people like her or Mick LaSalle.
 
2013-04-22 02:20:31 PM  

ShawnDoc: I'm not homeless.  (yet)


You will be, once the bag taxes hit you.

...any minute now...
 
2013-04-22 02:25:15 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Or you could just throw the reusable bags in when you wash your supply of bootstraps.


I always get confused.... are these people rugged, boostrappy individualists who don't need no nanny state because they can take care of themselves.... or mincing pansies who think it's virtually the end times because they can't get hold of some plastic grocery bags and incandescent light bulbs?
 
2013-04-22 02:29:07 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: They've gotten rid of plastic bags here in Seattle a while ago.  Nobody has died yet.


Have you tried suffocating a baby with a paper bag? Completely useless.
 
2013-04-22 03:10:50 PM  
i don't eat seafood.
 
2013-04-22 03:13:26 PM  

Incog_Neeto: The My Little Pony Killer: Incog_Neeto: Soup4Bonnie: They've gotten rid of plastic bags here in Seattle a while ago.  Nobody has died yet.

Every time I go to visit my family in California the fact that I can't just buy something and put it in a farking bag is goddamn annoying as piss.

You *know* that you need to bring your own bags, yet you don't and you still feel the need to complain about it on the internet?  Are your initials D.S.?

I remember after the first time I go out, however having to remember to bring my own bags isn't any less obnoxious. On the plus side it makes me keep an eye out for the same ineffective BS laws that anyone tries to pass around here.


I enjoy not walking through your garbage all the damn time, so I guess we're even.
 
2013-04-22 03:30:02 PM  

skozlaw: I always get confused.... are these people rugged, boostrappy individualists who don't need no nanny state because they can take care of themselves.... or mincing pansies who think it's virtually the end times because they can't get hold of some plastic grocery bags and incandescent light bulbs?


Schrodinger's coward.
 
2013-04-22 03:30:23 PM  
I just want to say that Austin, TX has a bag tax/plastic bag ban. It's also the only place in Texas where you are allowed to be Educated, Employed, and Non-Violent with a home of your own, all at the same time, without stinky sidewalks.
 
2013-04-22 03:33:28 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Well Debra Saunders, stop throwing your plastic bags all over the streets (and get your friends, neighbors, and the entire rest of the city to join you) and maybe nobody would consider banning the things.

Seattle banned them a few years ago.  People dealt with the fact that they're now either spending 5 cents for the privilege of bringing home more refuse with their groceries, or have manned up and gotten themselves the reusable bags.  Nobody burst out into flames.  Nobody was harmed by the legislation.  Inconvenienced, sure, but we also don't have to walk along streets lined with plastic when we leave our homes.


I kind of wish they'd do that here in Las Vegas too. So many people who live here (unfortunately) are lazy slobs, and with our frequently windy weather the trash blows everywhere. We call the flying plastic bags "Vegas birds". I'd be willing to put up with the inconvenience (and really, it would only be inconvenient until I get into the habit of actually remembering my reusable bags) if it would cut down on the litter problem. Plus, the biatching from my teabagging in-laws would be glorious.
 
2013-04-22 04:01:38 PM  
But it's so expensive to live here!

/invisible hand of the market, California wins.
 
2013-04-22 04:16:18 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: subby, you misspelled Mississippi.


LOL
 
2013-04-22 05:10:54 PM  
This rambling bullshiat posted from my iPhone.
 
2013-04-22 06:05:56 PM  
www.netbrawl.com
I heard the pancakes there STINK!
 
2013-04-22 06:06:35 PM  
I am torn on plastic bags I hate that they end up in the middle of the ocean as they slowly photodegrade and end up in side of marine life. However I also walk 3 dogs so I need plastic bags to pick up their crap.
 
2013-04-22 06:09:21 PM  
I love the ocean probably more than anyone on fark, but I use the paper bags to start fires in my fireplace, and the plastic ones to clean up after the enormous amount of shiat that a German Shepherd and a Jack Russel Terrier manage to leave in the yard.  Will never be a bag recycler - just can't see it happening.
 
2013-04-22 06:16:28 PM  

spongeboob: I am torn on plastic bags I hate that they end up in the middle of the ocean as they slowly photodegrade and end up in side of marine life. However I also walk 3 dogs so I need plastic bags to pick up their crap.


You can still find the bags made specifically for dog poop.  They'd be less of a waste to use than grocery bags anyway.
 
2013-04-22 06:32:51 PM  

spongeboob: I am torn on plastic bags I hate that they end up in the middle of the ocean as they slowly photodegrade and end up in side of marine life. However I also walk 3 dogs so I need plastic bags to pick up their crap.


Use the small plastic bags provided at the store for produce and meat. They're perfect. Bread bags aren't bad, either. I never liked using the plastic grocery bags for dog poop, because they always had holes in them.
 
2013-04-22 07:55:45 PM  

FilmBELOH20: I love the ocean probably more than anyone on fark, but I use the paper bags to start fires in my fireplace, and the plastic ones to clean up after the enormous amount of shiat that a German Shepherd and a Jack Russel Terrier manage to leave in the yard.  Will never be a bag recycler - just can't see it happening.


www.rei.com
$8 a REI for 72 bags = that's $0.11 a bag, for fully compostable, non-plastic dog shiat bags.

Surely if you can afford to feed a dog that large, you can afford not to fark up the planet with thousands of dog shiat filled plastic bags.
 
2013-04-22 08:48:05 PM  

The Third Man: I'm in Los Angeles today. It smells like an airport runway, jet fuel stenches in the cabin, and lights flickering at random.

I'm in Los Angeles today. Garbage cans comprise the medians of freeways always creeping, even when the population's sleeping.


And the radioman says, "It is a beautiful night out there!"
And the radioman says, "Rock and Roll lives!"
And the radioman says, "it is a beautiful night out there in Los Angeles."
You live in Los Angeles and you are going to Reseda; we are all in some way or another going to Reseda someday to die...
and the radioman laughs because the radioman farks a model too.
 
2013-04-22 09:08:53 PM  

MrSteve007: FilmBELOH20: I love the ocean probably more than anyone on fark, but I use the paper bags to start fires in my fireplace, and the plastic ones to clean up after the enormous amount of shiat that a German Shepherd and a Jack Russel Terrier manage to leave in the yard.  Will never be a bag recycler - just can't see it happening.

[www.rei.com image 850x691]
$8 a REI for 72 bags = that's $0.11 a bag, for fully compostable, non-plastic dog shiat bags.

Surely if you can afford to feed a dog that large, you can afford not to fark up the planet with thousands of dog shiat filled plastic bags.


Now I know how I'm spending my "dividend"!
 
2013-04-22 11:10:01 PM  
The bag laws are pretty pointless and kind of annoying but it's really far down the list when it comes to asinine state/city laws. It's not like right wingers are champions for education, the homeless, and the unemployed, so what is this dumb broad talking about? This writer needs some perspective. In the end, despite our problems, California is still the best state in the US.
 
2013-04-23 12:48:06 AM  
California's stinking sidewalks are less stinky than subby's mom's stinky trailer, according to subby's dad.
 
2013-04-23 02:50:38 AM  

TheJoe03: The bag laws are pretty pointless and kind of annoying but it's really far down the list when it comes to asinine state/city laws. It's not like right wingers are champions for education, the homeless, and the unemployed, so what is this dumb broad talking about? This writer needs some perspective. In the end, despite our problems, California is still the best state in the US.


Umm.  No it is not.  Cali is beyond broke, people and business are fleeing in droves.  I can think of at least 20 states I would rather be than Cali.
 
2013-04-23 03:44:52 AM  

pxsteel: Umm.  No it is not.  Cali is beyond broke, people and business are fleeing in droves.  I can think of at least 20 states I would rather be than Cali.


Uhh, yeah it is. The west coast in general is miles better than anything east of the Rockies. You can stay living in your 20 states, it's not like we have a lot of room for new people anyway.

/It would be hilarious to see you actually name 20 states better than California, it seems you only care about deficits.
//I'd also like to know what state you live in so I can shiat on your state, it's only fair.
///maybe Hawaii's better, possibly the PNW and Colorado.
 
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