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(Time)   Time asks: Why did the Tsarnaevs let their carjacking victim live? Answer: Terrorists are frequently dumb, like the Palestinian bombers who forgot to account for Daylight Savings Time and blew themselves up before they could deliver the bomb   (swampland.time.com) divider line 71
    More: Followup, Palestinians, Tsarnaev, Mercedes SUV, Tamerlan, Downtown Oklahoma City, World Trade Center bombing, cash machines, home runs  
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12040 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2013 at 12:13 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-04-22 08:36:00 AM
12 votes:

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers


I'm not a bloodthirsty killer, although I'm often confused and/or angry.

Here's my lifetime stats:

Cops Shot: 0
Kids Exploded: 0
Adults Exploded: 4 (but it was a propane accident, one of the adults was me, and only eyebrows were damaged)

I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.
2013-04-22 12:10:53 PM
10 votes:

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.


When you look at an 8 year old child, smile, and then put down a bomb next to him, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When the bomb blew up, and that child lay dead, his sister hurt beside him, his mother on the ground unresponsive and people with lost limbs all over, he just stared and looked at the damage before running away. When you do that, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When he came back home, he mocked the victims of the bombing on twitter, the next day he showed up to class very chipper, he went to the gym and to a party. When you do that after the crimes you did, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

After having a few days of fun, they walked to a cop and killed him in cold blood. After carjacking someone,  holding him hostage and taking his cash. Then they engaged in a firefight with coppers and he drove over his brother trying to get away. When you do that after the all the crimes you've done so far, you stop being 'a confused and angry kid'


Stop acting like they are farking victims in all this, people.
MBK [TotalFark]
2013-04-22 10:02:25 AM
8 votes:
A while back, I said I had sympathy for teenage criminals.  Like somehow, somewhere they were failed in life.  They made one mistake, and it will ruin the rest of their lives.

I'm a typical bleeding heart liberal.  I get sad when sympathetic criminals on Law and Order get put away, and those are just fictional characters.

That being said, I have no sympathy for these guys.  They put a bomb in a crowded area and people died.  They weren't playing with a gun and it went off, they weren't selling drugs to feed their family, they did this for no reason other than to harm innocent people.  They get no sympathy from me.

However:

Give him a fair trial.  Show the rest of the world that no matter how evil you are, you are not greater than the system.
2013-04-22 08:30:35 AM
7 votes:
or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful
2013-04-22 08:41:06 AM
5 votes:
doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.
2013-04-22 11:35:33 AM
4 votes:
Cause killing people that are looking you in the eyes takes more balls than these little boys could muster.
2013-04-22 10:16:52 AM
3 votes:
I'm pro-death-penalty, but executing him is just...unimaginative.

Instead, put a camera on him in his prison 24/7. Otherwise, treat him the same as any other inmate - except anybody in the world with an internet connection can get a look at him whenever they want. Let any hate-gibberer with a Qu'ran down his shorts have a look, to see that their ten-foot-tall bulletproof jihadi superhero is just another yutz in a jumpsuit waiting for his serving of prison cafeteria chow.
2013-04-22 08:54:07 AM
3 votes:

Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


Blood thirsty? Maybe not. But they are killers. They killed people. So I think the term applies here. Blood thirsty may even be appropriate here as well, as there is evidence that they were planning out several more attacks. Sounds a bit 'blood thirsty' to me.


The point I was getting at is that even if they were evil bloodthirsty killers they would still deserve a just and fair trial as well as a basic level of respect as human beings while the one kid is being held. I find the level of hate and bloodlust from many of you in these threads to be wholly inappropriate and more than a little offensive. Be better than that.
2013-04-22 08:48:15 AM
3 votes:

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful



Blood thirsty? Maybe not. But they are killers. They killed people. So I think the term applies here. Blood thirsty may even be appropriate here as well, as there is evidence that they were planning out several more attacks. Sounds a bit 'blood thirsty' to me.
2013-04-22 03:42:51 PM
2 votes:

Cythraul: ...And the scene of the cheering village people lining up as law enforcement vehicles went down the street at parade speed after the suspect's capture was a bit unsettling....


Thank God someone else felt like that.  WTF was that shiat all about?  The entire situation was sad from beginning to end.  People being blown to pieces, people dying, murder, mayhem, blood in the streets.  Is it a relief that the whole thing was over?  Sure.  Does it warrant acting like your team just won the Super World Series Masters Bowl though?

What the hell ever happened to civilized behavior or dignity?  Crack a beer, grab your boom box and head out into the street to celebrate while chanting "USA"?  That's what passes for relieved closure of an awful situation?

Unsettling is one way to describe it, I suppose.  It kind of embarrassed me for a moment to be an American.
2013-04-22 01:57:18 PM
2 votes:

Deucednuisance: My point is that there are no monsters.


There absolutely are. But not in the sense that. like frankenstein's monster and the Minotaur, they are poor tortured sould abandoned and mistrusted by society and the world, doomed to lash out in frustrated alienated rage.

No, the real monsters aren't misunderstood by the world, they misunderstand the world themselves*. Their worldview has become so distorted and twisted, that they can no longer relate to the world as it is. And when they act, they act in a way that may make sense to them, but is monstrous exactly becasue it is so at odds with humanity. They become monsters by removing themselves from the rest of humanity.
/* with thanks to Eddie Campbell

These two men ARE monsters. Their worldview became so broken and distorted that they saw the intentional murder of complete strangers (many running to raise money for charity) as a GOOD thing, worthy of doing. And that is what is monstrous, and that is why these men are monsters.

It is not only foolish, but dangerous to assert that men cannot become monsters, or that there is no such things as "evil". It is a curious and wrongheaded perspective that would absolve even the most heanious motivations and actions as being some sort of fatherless "happening" for which no one is really to blame, no one chose, and no one is really accountable. Or even worse that somehow everyone is.

No. Men become monsters. Men commit evil. And the root and branch of all evil springs directly from the heart of these men. No one is accidentlay evil - it is a choice.

All that being said, this man deserves a fair trial, and the best defense possible. Because, monstrous though he may have become, he is nonetheless a human being and a citizen, and while he may have abandoned his humanity, we have not abandonded him. We are not monsters.
2013-04-22 01:40:43 PM
2 votes:

Voiceofreason01: Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences


The problem is they way you seem to see this. Something terrible didn't just "happen". This isn't a "mistakes were made" event. These two grown adults decided, planned, committed and executed a deliberate series of murders of complete strangers. It wasn't an accident, it wasn't a misunderstanding, they weren't confused about what the results of their actions would be.

They fully INTENDED to murder as many people as possible, and went to significantg lengths to do so.

You seem to want to treat this as if a teenager accidentaly hit the wrong pedel and ran over some people.
2013-04-22 01:03:21 PM
2 votes:
VoiceofReason

  I don't know if you are a troll or not but, regarding your "they are kids" post?

  At 19 I was a married homeowner - 18 is considered the age of legal majority.

  If your point was the younger brother may have been swayed by the elder (who was a married father), fine. However? Its fairly common practice to teach our children by the time they have rudimentary eye/hand coordination "don't hit/hurt/bite" and so on. These two "kids" killed and maimed people, period.

  I'd also like to ask you this - "kids" younger than 19 go to wars we start - if they are kids, then maybe we should up the age of enlistment to - what? 30? Is that adult enough to know/learn how to not kill innocents, on purpose, with explosives? or is that just old enough to lose your legs when kids make mistakes?

 " Kids" my happy, healthy wiggling toes - this had little to do with their legally adult age.
2013-04-22 12:51:08 PM
2 votes:

Tommy Moo: Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.

He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.


You FAIL at being an American. The only difference between our nation and every other in the world is the document by which it was founded. That document clearly lays out what accused criminals deserve when facing charges by the state.

People like you who easily cast that aside for convenience and / or revenge do more harm to this once great nation compared to all terrorists combined. Instead of steadfastly holding to our convictions as a nation in the face of adversity the majority cowers and demands its pound of flesh.
2013-04-22 12:37:31 PM
2 votes:

Voiceofreason01: If I start an Israel thread how long will it take you to start calling for the deaths of Palestinians?


So when someone calls your post for being simply wrong, you decide doubling down on idiocy is the way to go? Good job, champ.

Voiceofreason01: /in a civilized world there is never a reason not to err on the side of mercy.


He who is merciful to the cruel will one day be cruel to those who deserve mercy.


Everyone is deserving of fair and equal treatment under the law, not everyone deserves mercy.
2013-04-22 12:17:53 PM
2 votes:

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


I picked the 'Funny' button because there is no 'Dumbass' button
2013-04-22 11:47:14 AM
2 votes:

scottydoesntknow:
I'm thinking they'll go for the death penalty as a reason to scare him into talking then drop it down to life. Unless he's actually smart (which hasn't been the case during most of this) and says fark it I'll take the death penalty, as it would probably be a better outcome than life in prison.


Maybe they will use it to get him to talk. It would be nice to know for sure if there was anyone else involved in this. If the FBI is able to determine that without him, though, a plea bargain may not be in the cards at all. Possible mitigating factors: His age, the influence of his brother. Possible aggravating factors: Pretty much everything else about the case. His defense attorney will certainly have their work cut out for them.

As for death vs. life in prison, which one is worse? Well, that's debatable. Even in supermax you can have something of a life. Books, writing, etc. It's a lot more than 4 of their victims have now. On the other hand, unless he's an absolute sociopath (which I'm not dismissing, that's possible), he's got to be wrestling with a lot of bad things in his head, and likely always will. As for which is "better", well that's just a matter of opinion I suppose.
2013-04-22 11:30:58 AM
2 votes:
Because a bombing is impersonal as opposed to sitting next to that person in the car and shooting

Or accidentally blowing their head off while asking their opinion on why some guy unloaded a hand cannon at you in an apartment and missed every shot
2013-04-22 11:22:31 AM
2 votes:

Gulper Eel: I'm pro-death-penalty, but executing him is just...unimaginative.

Instead, put a camera on him in his prison 24/7. Otherwise, treat him the same as any other inmate - except anybody in the world with an internet connection can get a look at him whenever they want. Let any hate-gibberer with a Qu'ran down his shorts have a look, to see that their ten-foot-tall bulletproof jihadi superhero is just another yutz in a jumpsuit waiting for his serving of prison cafeteria chow.


Meh, don't give him an audience. I'd rather him be given life in prison with no contact or communication to the outside world. Let everything about him fade away to nothing more than a footnote in history. They wanted attention, the best thing would be to deny him that.

/After a fair trial of course
2013-04-22 11:14:12 AM
2 votes:

MBK: Give him a fair trial. Show the rest of the world that no matter how evil you are, you are not greater than the system.


This more than anything. We in the US like to stand on our principles and talk from our moral soap box. So we need to practice what we preach and give this man every legal right we have.

Then if convicted, he should be sent to a federal prison and be made to make big rocks into small rocks for the rest of his life
2013-04-22 09:46:01 AM
2 votes:
Meh, fark that piece of shiat.  If he lives, he'll get a fair trial, an expensive trial, and he'll get a needle in his arm, which is better than he deserves.  And it being federal, he'll get that needle a lot sooner than for a state death penalty.
2013-04-22 03:45:09 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: I never said a cat grows into a wolf. This is fact. You are factually wrong by trying to claim I'm factually wrong. Also, that's a bullshiat argument and you know it.

Are there feral cats? Absolutely. Can you adopt a stray kitten and domesticate it? Absolutely. Therefore, contrary to your earlier statement "The nature of a feral animal is that it is feral. That's pretty solidly established scientifically,"it is not established at all.
But hey, don't trust me, let's look at Wiki:
A feral organism (from Latin fera, "a wild beast") is a domesticated species that has reverted to living in the wild..
The cat returns readily to a feral state if it has not been socialized properly in its young life... A local population of feral cats living in an urban area and using a common food source is sometimes called a feral cat colony. As feral cats multiply quickly, it is difficult to control their populations. Animal shelters attempt to adopt out feral cats, especially kittens, but often are overwhelmed with sheer numbers and euthanasia is used.
It appears to be pretty solidly established that being feral is a condition that an animal may go into or out of, rather than being an inherent part of its nature.


Oh ffs.

Okay, sorry, I used the wrong word. Wild. Wild animal. Better?

A cat is not a farking wolf. Stop farking talking about cats. Cats are domesticated animals, wolves are wild animals. My error in word usage, you still remain in error in the entire concept, but in your mission to Be Right About This, I'm sure you'll pull some other hyperbolic bullshiat out after you've lost the entire point of the statement to begin with.

Theaetetus: Frankly, you should stop relying on fiction as the source of your "science". Although wolves are much tougher to train than dogs, they are trainable.
Also, see above regarding the definition of "feral". It's not an inherent trait, like "white" or "furry", it's a status.

Furthermore, this all has nothing to do with the substantive argument: Hitler was not inherently evil. A proto-Hitler baby is not destined to become Hitler. You judge Hitler based on his actions, not based on what he will become,as the Talmudic story does.


Okay, you've got a wikipedia degree, I'm obviously in error here.

Wolves are wild, not feral. I was wrong. You're still wrong here, too.

You are still forcing this into an entirely different place than it needs to be, though I suspect now you either really are a troll or you're just an asshole.

No, Hitler wasn't evil as a baby but then the statement wouldn't apply, would it? because we wouldn't know if he was going to be cruel or not without knowledge of the future. Therefore you are still talking out of your ass. I and the story both judge him based on his actions as defined by the word "cruel" because baby Hitler as judged by anyone in the context of the time would not be judged as "cruel" whereas a wolf pup would be judged by its nature as "wild." You are dragging together multiple concepts and stripping away important context just to slam your own bullshiat in and make it fit.

I would consider Hitler cruel per his actions wrt the Holocaust, yet I cannot know if his nature would remain predestined as cruel. It is a pretty safe farking bet that it would be so, however, and eschewing mercy at that point is a very rational action. The same with not taking in a wolf pup, no matter how much you want to wave wikipedia in the air.

Lets look at it like this: some dogs, no matter how well trained and how much work is involved with them, are not safe around children. Wild wolves require significantly more training than dogs, which are domestic animals. Yet into this you're saying: WOLVES ARE OKAY LETS BRING THEM IN THE HOUSE.

You want to put in the years of intense training required to make a wolf nominally safe as a pet? Go for it. For the rest of the world that does not have the free time or energy to invest on minimal to no return, adopting a dog from a kill shelter is the more reasonable way to go. You go ahead and bring a wolf into your house though, whatever.

Theaetetus: And frankly, I do think you're trolling now. You've got nothing to respond to my substantive arguments, so you're misrepresenting what I've said, calling me names, and surrounding yourself with strawmen. I think it's pretty clear that any further time spent on you is a waste.

But I do hope that you'll read those wiki articles. They're quite interesting and may make you less incorrect in the future.


I'm calling you names because you're intentionally being an asshole about this. I haven't misrepresented anything, you've been twisting shiat so far out of context I have to unbend it just to get it back to something resembling the original conversation.
2013-04-22 03:20:13 PM
1 votes:

olddinosaur: Dartmouth tuition


U Mass Dartmouth, not the Ivy. And every fricking article I've read on the subject mentions he was a scholarship student with good grades.
2013-04-22 02:25:49 PM
1 votes:

I_C_Weener: Go back and watch the entire Terminator series.  In every movie, the Terminator lets one person live when he/she don't have to.  This is like that.  And Terminator starts with T...just like Tsarnaev.


i.imgur.com
2013-04-22 02:01:42 PM
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: you sounds scared. Better kill that scary brown kid quick.


Dude, dude dude...these pricks were white as hell.  They come from the region where the term 'caucasian' comes from, you can argue they are foreign or something, but brown? 

You are either trollin' hard or really just so open minded that we could use your skull as a gotdamn punch bowl.
2013-04-22 01:55:52 PM
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: Still nonsense, and I don't see how a made-up story in a made-up book has anything to do with the validity of the argument, either way you frame it.


It's a very real book, I own multiple tractates from it, thank you.

Deucednuisance: Not to mention that extending mercy to those deserving it doesn't really tax one's mercy-giving capacity, does it? The only mercy that actually IS mercy is that which is extended to the undeserving. That's kind of what makes "mercy" merciful, yanno?


No, there are people who did bad things but deserve mercy, and others who don't.

Do you think Hitler deserved mercy? What about Saddam? Gaddafi? Ted Bundy?
2013-04-22 01:49:07 PM
1 votes:

EdNortonsTwin: Except it's not the same level of "personal" as shooting a car jacking victim would be.. The point I am making is that they are cowards. What's your point, Tats?


They walked up to a cop and shot him in cold blood

How hard is it to understand? They said they were not going to kill the hostage because he wasn't American. That's farking it, stop looking for conspiracies everywhere people, damn.
2013-04-22 01:32:55 PM
1 votes:
Two things are really bothering me about this case:

1) Calling the youngest brother a "kid" who must have been corrupted and manipulated by his older brother. This might be true, it might also be bullshiat. Here in Canada, police and prosecutors assumed Karla Homolka was manipulated by her husband Paul Bernardo to help him kidnap, rape, and murder three young women, one of them her own sister. Turns out she was just as sick and twisted as he was. Jokes on them. She ended up plea bargaining, getting a light sentence, and is now free.

2) Assuming that everything we've been told by investigators is the gospel vetted truth. We haven't seen the video evidence of the bag being planted, yet everyone keeps saying "he planted the bomb right by a child", etc. They provide a narrative, the media repeats it, and the public seems to blindly accept it. We have to stop doing this and wait for the evidence to be presented.
2013-04-22 01:27:30 PM
1 votes:

EdNortonsTwin: Except triggering an IED and shooting at police while yards away are notexactly personal like shooting a car jacking victim would be.


It is when you literally drop the IED next to an 8 year old boy while looking at him and smiling, then stick around to see people writhe in pain from having lost their limbs.
2013-04-22 01:26:57 PM
1 votes:

JohnBigBootay: StaleCoffee: That's a really *bad* premise to absolve responsibility to any degree at all.

Which I'm pretty sure he did not do.


Then what was the point of trotting it out at all? He says it doesn't pardon the actions but helps to understand "why" but understanding the "why" there because of the brain failing to reach full maturity implies a lack of reasoning ability somehow. Otherwise understanding the "why" would follow the same causal pattern of anyone else, which makes the whole "brain not fully developed at 19" utterly irrelevant.
2013-04-22 01:19:04 PM
1 votes:

bhcompy: Tatsuma: bhcompy: The 19 year old can use this excuse, also the "following his older brother/mentor" excuse.

No he can't. Read the post I wrote about this.

Sure, he can use the excuse.  It's an affirmative defense and it doesn't pardon his crimes, only lessens the blame from 50/50 to <50, just like any coercion.  Proving an affirmative defense can be a difficult thing, and it's just an excuse until he proves it.

And, scientifically, 19 year old brains are still developing and hormones of that age interfere with thought processes(a big reason why very young adult males make ideal soldiers).  Again, this doesn't pardon the actions and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but it contributes to the decision making processes and helps with understanding of the "why" so that we can do whatever we can to try and prevent these things from happening in the future.


When talking about brain development, there is a MASSIVE difference between things like maturity of the temporal lobe vs synaptic pruning, and synaptic pruning. That's a really *bad* premise to absolve responsibility to any degree at all.
2013-04-22 01:14:09 PM
1 votes:
2013-04-22 01:13:10 PM
1 votes:
Yeah, Tsarnaev #2 knew what he was doing. He made bad choices, and now he will have to pay. Sucks to be him.
2013-04-22 01:12:46 PM
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.


Doglover did not talk about holding him with no trial.

If those people want to talk about how they would cut his nutz off to exact their revenge, then let them.
You know why they are different?  They are only talk or thinking about doing an act like that.  They don't go out and do it.

That's called being civilized.
2013-04-22 01:10:09 PM
1 votes:

Tommy Moo: He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care.


In any case where this is true, I still don't see the point of skipping the trial; if he's so obviously guilty, what are the odds he won't get convicted?

It's a waste of money, but about 14000th down the list of wastes-of-money.

It'd be a media circus, but so what? We'll have media circuses about something, might as well be this.
2013-04-22 01:07:59 PM
1 votes:
He's going to get his fair trial, he is going to be found guilty.  He should be executed for his crimes.  There is no reason in letting this animal live once he's been interrogated and every bit of information that he's able to give has been collected.

The absolute worse punishment we can dish out is life in prison without the chance at parole.  At least with a chance at parole, you have something to work for, something to hope for.  With death there is an end date.  With life without parole, that's an unknown amount of decades where you will be in the hell that is prison without it ever ended.  Even when it's 23 hours a day of solitude in a supermax, it's still 23 a day in a small cage alone, might as well be dead at that point.

Put a needle in his arm and end his life.  He ended the life of 3 people without a second thought when those bombs went off.  I think he killed another Thursday night.  His life should end, and we should give him the same thought he gave those others.  None.
2013-04-22 01:03:43 PM
1 votes:

snowshovel: Except that wasn't part of the original plan. If they wanted to do that, they would've bombed the start of the race, then did a happy dance yelling "Hey look at me! I did it!" as police swarmed the area.

The cop confrontation thing only happened when they realized that their carefully crafted plan "to blow random people up" (which, really, is the easy part of the plan), didn't include "and get away with it" beyond trying to resume life as normal. They had absolutely no intent on confronting anybody. At least until it became obvious that they were toast.

A true "terrorist" (for whatever you want that to mean), does have an exit strategy (along with a way or means to get out their message); whether it's as simple as "suicide mission", or something a little more complicated involving passports and a dufflebag full of cash or some friendly operatives who you can use as safehouses.

I read someone that equated these idiots with arsonists; they do something that causes damage, but then sort of hang around to watch the results. I think that is a good comparison in this case, from everything I've read so far.

Regardless, it obviously doesn't bring back anyone who is dead or injured.


I read that the younger one was at a party a couple of nights after the bombing.  I don't know why they stuck around, especially considering the younger one didn't even wear sunglasses or anything to hide his identity.  They could have been anywhere by now if they hadn't been such dumbasses.
2013-04-22 12:59:39 PM
1 votes:

JohnBigBootay: When you completely ignore just about every other word I wrote it makes for a really unsatisfying discussion. I said nothing of the sort and in fact said several things to the contrary.


I will admit that when I got to the 'see how he feels', I stopped reading and rolled my eyes, thinking you were going to defend him like a few people in this thread about being roped into it and really being his big brother's fault

Sincere apologies about that, it wasn't fair of me not to read the rest of your post but answer anyway. Really sorry about that, not something I usually do and won't do it again
2013-04-22 12:58:22 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

When you look at an 8 year old child, smile, and then put down a bomb next to him, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When the bomb blew up, and that child lay dead, his sister hurt beside him, his mother on the ground unresponsive and people with lost limbs all over, he just stared and looked at the damage before running away. When you do that, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When he came back home, he mocked the victims of the bombing on twitter, the next day he showed up to class very chipper, he went to the gym and to a party. When you do that after the crimes you did, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

After having a few days of fun, they walked to a cop and killed him in cold blood. After carjacking someone,  holding him hostage and taking his cash. Then they engaged in a firefight with coppers and he drove over his brother trying to get away. When you do that after the all the crimes you've done so far, you stop being 'a confused and angry kid'


Stop acting like they are farking victims in all this, people.


Tatsuma on my side? It's more likely than you think!

But honestly, we're dealing with mass murderers here. I don't care their age, religion, ethnicity, who their parents are, who their friends are, I want justice.

Pure, unadulterated, justice.

/Bostonian
2013-04-22 12:56:52 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Mr. Coffee Nerves: apparently had no exit strategy whatsoever sums up their cunning criminal minds.

You really don't understand Islamic terrorism if you think 'exit strategy' plays any part in it whatsoever.

Voiceofreason01: Oh for farks sake, this is going green?

That'll teach you to kneejerk on TF thinking it's not going to go public

I_Am_Weasel: I'm guessing that they weren't behaving entirely rational.

Everything that they did was rational. Evil? Yes. Rational? Absolutely.

They wanted to create a confrontation with the cops and go out in a blaze of glory in order to kill more people. I don't understand what's not rational with this frame of mind if you're an Islamic terrorist.




Except that wasn't part of the original plan. If they wanted to do that, they would've bombed the start of the race, then did a happy dance yelling "Hey look at me! I did it!" as police swarmed the area.

The cop confrontation thing only happened when they realized that their carefully crafted plan "to blow random people up" (which, really, is the easy part of the plan), didn't include "and get away with it" beyond trying to resume life as normal. They had absolutely no intent on confronting anybody. At least until it became obvious that they were toast.

A true "terrorist" (for whatever you want that to mean), does have an exit strategy (along with a way or means to get out their message); whether it's as simple as "suicide mission", or something a little more complicated involving passports and a dufflebag full of cash or some friendly operatives who you can use as safehouses.

I read someone that equated these idiots with arsonists; they do something that causes damage, but then sort of hang around to watch the results. I think that is a good comparison in this case, from everything I've read so far.

Regardless, it obviously doesn't bring back anyone who is dead or injured.
2013-04-22 12:56:15 PM
1 votes:

Babbs: Really?? I'm as bleeding heart as they come, but people defending these scum are unbelievable. They are nothing but cold blooded killers. He deserves to face the court, and hopefully get the needle. End of story.


I haven't seen anyone 'defending' anyone. There's nothing wrong with discussing motivations and in fact it's exactly what should be done. They (he) should be vigorously prosecuted and I have literally not seen a single person arguing otherwise.
2013-04-22 12:54:57 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: All I'm finding is that they had planned to carry out more attacks, which would go in line with them returning to everyday activities so as not to look suspicious. You can't really conduct more planned attacks when there's a nationwide manhunt and everyone knows exactly what you look like.

They had no idea that there were so many cameras watching them and it all fell to shiat the second it went national.


Here's how they basically wanted it to come down, all the way in terms of code.

[1] if bombing goes well then
verify if police unto us
if positive goto 4 if negative goto 2
[2] return to normal life then
plan a new bombing then goto 1
[3] if cover is blown
go out in a blaze of glory goto 4
[4] VIRGINS
bone them
2013-04-22 12:54:56 PM
1 votes:
You are all equally pathetic...Jews, Muslims and of course the equally blood thirsty Christians.

All of you personify what is wrong with the Human race.

What else would one expect from simple minds...religion
2013-04-22 12:52:38 PM
1 votes:

vernonFL: Tatsuma: not everyone deserves mercy.

Actually according the some religions, everyone does.


Are you telling me the god of Abraham and Tatsuma believes in mercy?
2013-04-22 12:48:19 PM
1 votes:

He_Hate_Me: SirGunslinger: I'm just thankful they took their bombing lessons from the Taliban as opposed to the IRA otherwise it could have been a lot worse.

The IRA would frequently call up a location they were about to bomb so that innocent civilians could be evacuated.


Aaah, good old days
2013-04-22 12:48:01 PM
1 votes:

nmemkha: A glimmer of humanity?


One of us has a funny view of humanity.
2013-04-22 12:47:54 PM
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: you sounds scared. Better kill that scary brown kid quick. Hell why don't you go ahead and skip the trial....it's just a waste of time anyway.


So accuse him of being a racist and wanting to remove his rights AND call him a coward.

You haven't shot your credibility enough in this thread, might as well keep firing until it just goes click click click
2013-04-22 12:43:29 PM
1 votes:
FTA: How did the Tsarnaev brothers allow the man they carjacked on Thursday night to get away?

The premise of this article is offensive; they're asking the readers to join in on their media derp-fest of presenting this as a movie script, conditioning us for the inevitable made-for-TV movie.
2013-04-22 12:41:30 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: not everyone deserves mercy.


Actually according the some religions, everyone does.
2013-04-22 12:40:02 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Tatsuma: scottydoesntknow: It was random. They were robbing a convenience store for money,

No they weren't. They went to the convenience store and soon afterwards someone unrelated robbed it. It wasn't them.

Ok, but they only killed the cop because they thought he had spotted them, they weren't just indiscriminately killing at that point.

Otherwise, why did they let the carjacking victim in the story live?


It took this long for this thread to go around in a complete circle ?  Somebody is slipping .
2013-04-22 12:38:49 PM
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.


He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.
2013-04-22 12:35:45 PM
1 votes:

PapaChester: "The Tsarnaev brothers were competent enough to kill at least four people."

You do not have to be competent at anything to kill people.


Actually if you look at most mass shootings, you clearly have to have a degree of competency and planning in order to kill people.

Take the serial stabber at Lone Star college who wanted to kill as many people as he can. He brought a knife, the blade broke and then he ran away because he didn't even have a backup weapon. Didn't even think about that.
2013-04-22 12:35:24 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

When you look at an 8 year old child, smile, and then put down a bomb next to him, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When the bomb blew up, and that child lay dead, his sister hurt beside him, his mother on the ground unresponsive and people with lost limbs all over, he just stared and looked at the damage before running away. When you do that, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When he came back home, he mocked the victims of the bombing on twitter, the next day he showed up to class very chipper, he went to the gym and to a party. When you do that after the crimes you did, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

After having a few days of fun, they walked to a cop and killed him in cold blood. After carjacking someone,  holding him hostage and taking his cash. Then they engaged in a firefight with coppers and he drove over his brother trying to get away. When you do that after the all the crimes you've done so far, you stop being 'a confused and angry kid'



If I start an Israel thread how long will it take you to start calling for the deaths of Palestinians?

/in a civilized world there is never a reason not to err on the side of mercy.
2013-04-22 12:34:16 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Ok, but they only killed the cop because they thought he had spotted them, they weren't just indiscriminately killing at that point.


Except that we can see that they walked up to him in his car, and shot him in cold blood. He had no idea who they were.

Otherwise, why did they let the carjacking victim in the story live?

Because 'he wasn't American'. They wanted to kill Americans and in their minds it was justified. The guy they carjacked was not, therefore THAT would have been murder.

Remember, Tamerlan quit boxing because he said 'A Muslim should not punch a man in the face'. Then he set off bombs in public places.
2013-04-22 12:29:15 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: It was random. They were robbing a convenience store for money,


No they weren't. They went to the convenience store and soon afterwards someone unrelated robbed it. It wasn't them.
2013-04-22 12:29:02 PM
1 votes:
Dzhokar is 19, legally he's an adult.
2013-04-22 12:27:13 PM
1 votes:
The My Little Pony Killer: "Why are we a-okay with giving these douchebags the fame we don't even want to afford the theater killer?"

Because Fark is nothing if not inconsistent?
2013-04-22 12:27:10 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

When you look at an 8 year old child, smile, and then put down a bomb next to him, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When the bomb blew up, and that child lay dead, his sister hurt beside him, his mother on the ground unresponsive and people with lost limbs all over, he just stared and looked at the damage before running away. When you do that, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When he came back home, he mocked the victims of the bombing on twitter, the next day he showed up to class very chipper, he went to the gym and to a party. When you do that after the crimes you did, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

After having a few days of fun, they walked to a cop and killed him in cold blood. After carjacking someone,  holding him hostage and taking his cash. Then they engaged in a firefight with coppers and he drove over his brother trying to get away. When you do that after the all the crimes you've done so far, you stop being 'a confused and angry kid'


Stop acting like they are farking victims in all this, people.


very well put. when i read voiceofreason's comment i figured it was just a troll.
2013-04-22 12:27:10 PM
1 votes:

SirGunslinger: I'm just thankful they took their bombing lessons from the Taliban as opposed to the IRA otherwise it could have been a lot worse.


The IRA would frequently call up a location they were about to bomb so that innocent civilians could be evacuated.
2013-04-22 12:26:41 PM
1 votes:
Lets not be quick to judge, we did that already and it cost a lot of lives in a far away land.  Though these things are abhorrent, lets find out why this happened and try to remedy that.  It would be wiser to prevent the tumor from forming than cutting out the tumor when its too late.
2013-04-22 12:24:57 PM
1 votes:
A glimmer of humanity?
2013-04-22 12:20:52 PM
1 votes:
Maybe Time magazine should have asked the carjacking victim.  NBC (Pete Williams) says he told them the killers said they wouldn't kill him because he "wasn't American".
2013-04-22 12:20:35 PM
1 votes:
I wonder why they killed the campus cop. Seems kinda random and it ruined any chance they had for a getaway.
2013-04-22 12:20:09 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Mr. Coffee Nerves: apparently had no exit strategy whatsoever sums up their cunning criminal minds.

You really don't understand Islamic terrorism if you think 'exit strategy' plays any part in it whatsoever.

Voiceofreason01: Oh for farks sake, this is going green?

That'll teach you to kneejerk on TF thinking it's not going to go public

I_Am_Weasel: I'm guessing that they weren't behaving entirely rational.

Everything that they did was rational. Evil? Yes. Rational? Absolutely.

They wanted to create a confrontation with the cops and go out in a blaze of glory in order to kill more people. I don't understand what's not rational with this frame of mind if you're an Islamic terrorist.


I'm just thankful they took their bombing lessons from the Taliban as opposed to the IRA otherwise it could have been a lot worse.
2013-04-22 12:16:05 PM
1 votes:
Why are we a-okay with giving these douchebags the fame we don't even want to afford the theater killer?
2013-04-22 12:15:03 PM
1 votes:

Mr. Coffee Nerves: apparently had no exit strategy whatsoever sums up their cunning criminal minds.


You really don't understand Islamic terrorism if you think 'exit strategy' plays any part in it whatsoever.

Voiceofreason01: Oh for farks sake, this is going green?


That'll teach you to kneejerk on TF thinking it's not going to go public

I_Am_Weasel: I'm guessing that they weren't behaving entirely rational.


Everything that they did was rational. Evil? Yes. Rational? Absolutely.

They wanted to create a confrontation with the cops and go out in a blaze of glory in order to kill more people. I don't understand what's not rational with this frame of mind if you're an Islamic terrorist.
2013-04-22 11:35:51 AM
1 votes:
I'm guessing that they weren't behaving entirely rational.
2013-04-22 11:33:30 AM
1 votes:

nekom: scottydoesntknow:
Meh, don't give him an audience. I'd rather him be given life in prison with no contact or communication to the outside world. Let everything about him fade away to nothing more than a footnote in history. They wanted attention, the best thing would be to deny him that.

/After a fair trial of course

I'm against the death penalty, even for this waste of flesh, but I have my doubts he'll have much luck escaping the needle. If he does, he likely WILL be in proteective custody, 23hrs/day in a cell alone. At this point, I'm not even sure if the prosecution will accept a plea bargain for life. They have pretty much all they need already for an easy conviction, unless they royally fark something up.


I'm thinking they'll go for the death penalty as a reason to scare him into talking then drop it down to life. Unless he's actually smart (which hasn't been the case during most of this) and says fark it I'll take the death penalty, as it would probably be a better outcome than life in prison.
2013-04-22 11:25:17 AM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow:
Meh, don't give him an audience. I'd rather him be given life in prison with no contact or communication to the outside world. Let everything about him fade away to nothing more than a footnote in history. They wanted attention, the best thing would be to deny him that.

/After a fair trial of course


I'm against the death penalty, even for this waste of flesh, but I have my doubts he'll have much luck escaping the needle. If he does, he likely WILL be in proteective custody, 23hrs/day in a cell alone. At this point, I'm not even sure if the prosecution will accept a plea bargain for life. They have pretty much all they need already for an easy conviction, unless they royally fark something up.
2013-04-22 11:16:17 AM
1 votes:
I think the fact that they committed a terrorist bombing on a street packed solid with security cameras of all kinds and apparently had no exit strategy whatsoever sums up their cunning criminal minds.  If being rock stupid was a defense the jails would be very empty.

This is the city where John Adams defended the British soldiers accused in the Boston Massacre. Give this moron a fair trial with a vigorous defense. If convicted THEN hang him by his feet in the Common and auction off baseball bats to benefit the victims and put it all on Pay-Per-View.
2013-04-22 08:57:27 AM
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


Blood thirsty? Maybe not. But they are killers. They killed people. So I think the term applies here. Blood thirsty may even be appropriate here as well, as there is evidence that they were planning out several more attacks. Sounds a bit 'blood thirsty' to me.

The point I was getting at is that even if they were evil bloodthirsty killers they would still deserve a just and fair trial as well as a basic level of respect as human beings while the one kid is being held. I find the level of hate and bloodlust from many of you in these threads to be wholly inappropriate and more than a little offensive. Be better than that.


I was just being technical in my response in the use of your terminology. I think they deserve a fair trail as well. And the scene of the cheering village people lining up as law enforcement vehicles went down the street at parade speed after the suspect's capture was a bit unsettling.

But in the age of American Fear, I doubt he'll get much in the way of a fair trail. Especially if they label him an 'enemy combatant.'
 
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