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(Time)   Time asks: Why did the Tsarnaevs let their carjacking victim live? Answer: Terrorists are frequently dumb, like the Palestinian bombers who forgot to account for Daylight Savings Time and blew themselves up before they could deliver the bomb   (swampland.time.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Palestinians, Tsarnaev, Mercedes SUV, Tamerlan, Downtown Oklahoma City, World Trade Center bombing, cash machines, home runs  
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12079 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2013 at 12:13 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-22 08:30:35 AM  
or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful
 
2013-04-22 08:36:00 AM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers


I'm not a bloodthirsty killer, although I'm often confused and/or angry.

Here's my lifetime stats:

Cops Shot: 0
Kids Exploded: 0
Adults Exploded: 4 (but it was a propane accident, one of the adults was me, and only eyebrows were damaged)

I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.
 
2013-04-22 08:41:06 AM  
doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.
 
2013-04-22 08:44:43 AM  
The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.

I guess it's ok to call it a "pin number" if you don't capitalize it?
 
2013-04-22 08:48:15 AM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful



Blood thirsty? Maybe not. But they are killers. They killed people. So I think the term applies here. Blood thirsty may even be appropriate here as well, as there is evidence that they were planning out several more attacks. Sounds a bit 'blood thirsty' to me.
 
2013-04-22 08:54:07 AM  

Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


Blood thirsty? Maybe not. But they are killers. They killed people. So I think the term applies here. Blood thirsty may even be appropriate here as well, as there is evidence that they were planning out several more attacks. Sounds a bit 'blood thirsty' to me.


The point I was getting at is that even if they were evil bloodthirsty killers they would still deserve a just and fair trial as well as a basic level of respect as human beings while the one kid is being held. I find the level of hate and bloodlust from many of you in these threads to be wholly inappropriate and more than a little offensive. Be better than that.
 
2013-04-22 08:57:27 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


Blood thirsty? Maybe not. But they are killers. They killed people. So I think the term applies here. Blood thirsty may even be appropriate here as well, as there is evidence that they were planning out several more attacks. Sounds a bit 'blood thirsty' to me.

The point I was getting at is that even if they were evil bloodthirsty killers they would still deserve a just and fair trial as well as a basic level of respect as human beings while the one kid is being held. I find the level of hate and bloodlust from many of you in these threads to be wholly inappropriate and more than a little offensive. Be better than that.


I was just being technical in my response in the use of your terminology. I think they deserve a fair trail as well. And the scene of the cheering village people lining up as law enforcement vehicles went down the street at parade speed after the suspect's capture was a bit unsettling.

But in the age of American Fear, I doubt he'll get much in the way of a fair trail. Especially if they label him an 'enemy combatant.'
 
2013-04-22 09:46:01 AM  
Meh, fark that piece of shiat.  If he lives, he'll get a fair trial, an expensive trial, and he'll get a needle in his arm, which is better than he deserves.  And it being federal, he'll get that needle a lot sooner than for a state death penalty.
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2013-04-22 10:02:25 AM  
A while back, I said I had sympathy for teenage criminals.  Like somehow, somewhere they were failed in life.  They made one mistake, and it will ruin the rest of their lives.

I'm a typical bleeding heart liberal.  I get sad when sympathetic criminals on Law and Order get put away, and those are just fictional characters.

That being said, I have no sympathy for these guys.  They put a bomb in a crowded area and people died.  They weren't playing with a gun and it went off, they weren't selling drugs to feed their family, they did this for no reason other than to harm innocent people.  They get no sympathy from me.

However:

Give him a fair trial.  Show the rest of the world that no matter how evil you are, you are not greater than the system.
 
2013-04-22 10:11:44 AM  
if you are going to brag to someone, it is kinda pointless to brag to them and then kill them immediately after.
 
2013-04-22 10:16:52 AM  
I'm pro-death-penalty, but executing him is just...unimaginative.

Instead, put a camera on him in his prison 24/7. Otherwise, treat him the same as any other inmate - except anybody in the world with an internet connection can get a look at him whenever they want. Let any hate-gibberer with a Qu'ran down his shorts have a look, to see that their ten-foot-tall bulletproof jihadi superhero is just another yutz in a jumpsuit waiting for his serving of prison cafeteria chow.
 
2013-04-22 10:48:40 AM  

basemetal: Meh, fark that piece of shiat.  If he lives, he'll get a fair trial, an expensive trial, and he'll get a needle in his arm, which is better than he deserves.  And it being federal, he'll get that needle a lot sooner than for a state death penalty.


What do you base that on? The last part, that is. McVeigh went fast, but he was a "volunteer". There haven't been a whole hell of a lot of federal death penalty cases in recent years to go by.
 
2013-04-22 11:14:12 AM  

MBK: Give him a fair trial. Show the rest of the world that no matter how evil you are, you are not greater than the system.


This more than anything. We in the US like to stand on our principles and talk from our moral soap box. So we need to practice what we preach and give this man every legal right we have.

Then if convicted, he should be sent to a federal prison and be made to make big rocks into small rocks for the rest of his life
 
2013-04-22 11:16:17 AM  
I think the fact that they committed a terrorist bombing on a street packed solid with security cameras of all kinds and apparently had no exit strategy whatsoever sums up their cunning criminal minds.  If being rock stupid was a defense the jails would be very empty.

This is the city where John Adams defended the British soldiers accused in the Boston Massacre. Give this moron a fair trial with a vigorous defense. If convicted THEN hang him by his feet in the Common and auction off baseball bats to benefit the victims and put it all on Pay-Per-View.
 
2013-04-22 11:17:27 AM  
smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net
 
2013-04-22 11:18:52 AM  

serial_crusher: The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.

I guess it's ok to call it a "pin number" if you don't capitalize it?


If only they'd written "ATM machine PIN number".
 
2013-04-22 11:19:02 AM  
Oh for farks sake, this is going green?
 
2013-04-22 11:22:31 AM  

Gulper Eel: I'm pro-death-penalty, but executing him is just...unimaginative.

Instead, put a camera on him in his prison 24/7. Otherwise, treat him the same as any other inmate - except anybody in the world with an internet connection can get a look at him whenever they want. Let any hate-gibberer with a Qu'ran down his shorts have a look, to see that their ten-foot-tall bulletproof jihadi superhero is just another yutz in a jumpsuit waiting for his serving of prison cafeteria chow.


Meh, don't give him an audience. I'd rather him be given life in prison with no contact or communication to the outside world. Let everything about him fade away to nothing more than a footnote in history. They wanted attention, the best thing would be to deny him that.

/After a fair trial of course
 
2013-04-22 11:25:17 AM  

scottydoesntknow:
Meh, don't give him an audience. I'd rather him be given life in prison with no contact or communication to the outside world. Let everything about him fade away to nothing more than a footnote in history. They wanted attention, the best thing would be to deny him that.

/After a fair trial of course


I'm against the death penalty, even for this waste of flesh, but I have my doubts he'll have much luck escaping the needle. If he does, he likely WILL be in proteective custody, 23hrs/day in a cell alone. At this point, I'm not even sure if the prosecution will accept a plea bargain for life. They have pretty much all they need already for an easy conviction, unless they royally fark something up.
 
2013-04-22 11:28:00 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: If convicted THEN hang him by his feet in the Common and auction off baseball bats to benefit the victims and put it all on Pay-Per-View.


Why waste bats, just give them nails and explosives
/Almost like they did with Osama
 
2013-04-22 11:30:58 AM  
Because a bombing is impersonal as opposed to sitting next to that person in the car and shooting

Or accidentally blowing their head off while asking their opinion on why some guy unloaded a hand cannon at you in an apartment and missed every shot
 
2013-04-22 11:33:30 AM  

nekom: scottydoesntknow:
Meh, don't give him an audience. I'd rather him be given life in prison with no contact or communication to the outside world. Let everything about him fade away to nothing more than a footnote in history. They wanted attention, the best thing would be to deny him that.

/After a fair trial of course

I'm against the death penalty, even for this waste of flesh, but I have my doubts he'll have much luck escaping the needle. If he does, he likely WILL be in proteective custody, 23hrs/day in a cell alone. At this point, I'm not even sure if the prosecution will accept a plea bargain for life. They have pretty much all they need already for an easy conviction, unless they royally fark something up.


I'm thinking they'll go for the death penalty as a reason to scare him into talking then drop it down to life. Unless he's actually smart (which hasn't been the case during most of this) and says fark it I'll take the death penalty, as it would probably be a better outcome than life in prison.
 
2013-04-22 11:34:54 AM  
www.biography.com

John Adams frowns on our shenanigans.
 
2013-04-22 11:35:33 AM  
Cause killing people that are looking you in the eyes takes more balls than these little boys could muster.
 
2013-04-22 11:35:51 AM  
I'm guessing that they weren't behaving entirely rational.
 
2013-04-22 11:47:14 AM  

scottydoesntknow:
I'm thinking they'll go for the death penalty as a reason to scare him into talking then drop it down to life. Unless he's actually smart (which hasn't been the case during most of this) and says fark it I'll take the death penalty, as it would probably be a better outcome than life in prison.


Maybe they will use it to get him to talk. It would be nice to know for sure if there was anyone else involved in this. If the FBI is able to determine that without him, though, a plea bargain may not be in the cards at all. Possible mitigating factors: His age, the influence of his brother. Possible aggravating factors: Pretty much everything else about the case. His defense attorney will certainly have their work cut out for them.

As for death vs. life in prison, which one is worse? Well, that's debatable. Even in supermax you can have something of a life. Books, writing, etc. It's a lot more than 4 of their victims have now. On the other hand, unless he's an absolute sociopath (which I'm not dismissing, that's possible), he's got to be wrestling with a lot of bad things in his head, and likely always will. As for which is "better", well that's just a matter of opinion I suppose.
 
2013-04-22 11:58:33 AM  
It would be fitting if he were tried in Boston, but selecting an impartial Jury would be pretty near impossible. So I guess it will be a federal prosecution.
 
2013-04-22 12:00:39 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Cause killing people that are looking you in the eyes takes more balls than these little boys could muster.


But suicides are no reason for gun control because people will just slit their wrists and bleed out instead.
 
2013-04-22 12:06:56 PM  

simplicimus: It would be fitting if he were tried in Boston, but selecting an impartial Jury would be pretty near impossible. So I guess it will be a federal prosecution.


McVeigh's trial was moved to Colorado after the court granted a change of venue. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same requested, and granted in this case for that very reason. I'm not sure it makes much sense though, while the victims were all in Boston at the time, the audience was the entire nation. I'm not sure it's safe to assume that he'd get any more of a fair trial in any other part of the country, honestly.
 
2013-04-22 12:09:02 PM  

nekom: McVeigh's trial was moved to Colorado after the court granted a change of venue. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same requested, and granted in this case for that very reason. I'm not sure it makes much sense though, while the victims were all in Boston at the time, the audience was the entire nation. I'm not sure it's safe to assume that he'd get any more of a fair trial in any other part of the country, honestly.


He was also executed in Indiana, one of the few things to come out of this god forsaken state
 
2013-04-22 12:09:17 PM  

nekom: simplicimus: It would be fitting if he were tried in Boston, but selecting an impartial Jury would be pretty near impossible. So I guess it will be a federal prosecution.

McVeigh's trial was moved to Colorado after the court granted a change of venue. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same requested, and granted in this case for that very reason. I'm not sure it makes much sense though, while the victims were all in Boston at the time, the audience was the entire nation. I'm not sure it's safe to assume that he'd get any more of a fair trial in any other part of the country, honestly.


Send him down south. A while after 9/11 there were a bunch of 'the day Southerners pretended to care about the North' comments. So apparently, we don't really give a flip about Boston, or some other such nonsense.
 
2013-04-22 12:10:53 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.


When you look at an 8 year old child, smile, and then put down a bomb next to him, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When the bomb blew up, and that child lay dead, his sister hurt beside him, his mother on the ground unresponsive and people with lost limbs all over, he just stared and looked at the damage before running away. When you do that, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When he came back home, he mocked the victims of the bombing on twitter, the next day he showed up to class very chipper, he went to the gym and to a party. When you do that after the crimes you did, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

After having a few days of fun, they walked to a cop and killed him in cold blood. After carjacking someone,  holding him hostage and taking his cash. Then they engaged in a firefight with coppers and he drove over his brother trying to get away. When you do that after the all the crimes you've done so far, you stop being 'a confused and angry kid'


Stop acting like they are farking victims in all this, people.
 
2013-04-22 12:11:59 PM  

nekom: simplicimus: It would be fitting if he were tried in Boston, but selecting an impartial Jury would be pretty near impossible. So I guess it will be a federal prosecution.

McVeigh's trial was moved to Colorado after the court granted a change of venue. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same requested, and granted in this case for that very reason. I'm not sure it makes much sense though, while the victims were all in Boston at the time, the audience was the entire nation. I'm not sure it's safe to assume that he'd get any more of a fair trial in any other part of the country, honestly.


You're correct. After the 24/7 coverage, I have no idea where one could find an impartial jury.
 
2013-04-22 12:15:03 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: apparently had no exit strategy whatsoever sums up their cunning criminal minds.


You really don't understand Islamic terrorism if you think 'exit strategy' plays any part in it whatsoever.

Voiceofreason01: Oh for farks sake, this is going green?


That'll teach you to kneejerk on TF thinking it's not going to go public

I_Am_Weasel: I'm guessing that they weren't behaving entirely rational.


Everything that they did was rational. Evil? Yes. Rational? Absolutely.

They wanted to create a confrontation with the cops and go out in a blaze of glory in order to kill more people. I don't understand what's not rational with this frame of mind if you're an Islamic terrorist.
 
2013-04-22 12:16:05 PM  
Why are we a-okay with giving these douchebags the fame we don't even want to afford the theater killer?
 
2013-04-22 12:16:12 PM  
It was the only good thing they did that day.
 
2013-04-22 12:17:07 PM  

simplicimus: You're correct. After the 24/7 coverage, I have no idea where one could find an impartial jury.


Actually, if they want to pick me, they can just give me a call (I'm having a good time I don't want to stop at all)

I'm serious. I know what the media has shown to us, but if I were to be a jury, I would simply stop reading about all this, and I would concentrate only on the evidence that would be shown to me at the trial, not preconceived notions I have the liberty of forming as just another person following this.
 
2013-04-22 12:17:53 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


I picked the 'Funny' button because there is no 'Dumbass' button
 
2013-04-22 12:18:01 PM  

NutWrench: It was the only good thing they did that day.


Actually around noon they went to a puppy orphanage and spent more than 45 minutes making them happy

Bet you feel like an asshole now, don't you?
 
2013-04-22 12:20:09 PM  

Tatsuma: Mr. Coffee Nerves: apparently had no exit strategy whatsoever sums up their cunning criminal minds.

You really don't understand Islamic terrorism if you think 'exit strategy' plays any part in it whatsoever.

Voiceofreason01: Oh for farks sake, this is going green?

That'll teach you to kneejerk on TF thinking it's not going to go public

I_Am_Weasel: I'm guessing that they weren't behaving entirely rational.

Everything that they did was rational. Evil? Yes. Rational? Absolutely.

They wanted to create a confrontation with the cops and go out in a blaze of glory in order to kill more people. I don't understand what's not rational with this frame of mind if you're an Islamic terrorist.


I'm just thankful they took their bombing lessons from the Taliban as opposed to the IRA otherwise it could have been a lot worse.
 
2013-04-22 12:20:35 PM  
I wonder why they killed the campus cop. Seems kinda random and it ruined any chance they had for a getaway.
 
2013-04-22 12:20:45 PM  
I am frequently amazed at how stupid most "bad guys" seem to be. We're freakin' lucky for that. If the bad guys were serious we would have an Oklahoma City every week and we've be royally farked.
 
2013-04-22 12:20:52 PM  
Maybe Time magazine should have asked the carjacking victim.  NBC (Pete Williams) says he told them the killers said they wouldn't kill him because he "wasn't American".
 
2013-04-22 12:21:51 PM  

wxboy: serial_crusher: The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.

I guess it's ok to call it a "pin number" if you don't capitalize it?

If only they'd written "ATM machine PIN number".


Automatic Teller Machine Machine Person Identification Number Number? That seems a bit superfluous.
 
2013-04-22 12:22:28 PM  

Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.


Nobody said that. I agree with doglover(hey, there's a first for everything). They are blood thirsty killers. Now let's prosecute them to the full extent of the law.
 
2013-04-22 12:23:08 PM  

SirGunslinger: I'm just thankful they took their bombing lessons from the Taliban as opposed to the IRA otherwise it could have been a lot worse.


Oh yeah, we are lucky for that. Take the Time Square failed bomber. If only he had planned everything correctly, with the amount of explosives he had, we were looking at literally hundreds of dead and thousands injured.

Rembrant_Q_Einstein: I wonder why they killed the campus cop. Seems kinda random and it ruined any chance they had for a getaway.


They didn't want a getaway, they wanted to kill as many as they could before they died.
 
2013-04-22 12:23:50 PM  
Well, it's not like one of them was Anton Chighur.
 
2013-04-22 12:23:53 PM  
How a Stupid Mistake Led Police Straight to the Boston Terrorists

So what police force would a smart mistake lead to?
 
2013-04-22 12:24:31 PM  

MBK: A while back, I said I had sympathy for teenage criminals.  Like somehow, somewhere they were failed in life.  They made one mistake, and it will ruin the rest of their lives.

I'm a typical bleeding heart liberal.  I get sad when sympathetic criminals on Law and Order get put away, and those are just fictional characters.

That being said, I have no sympathy for these guys.  They put a bomb in a crowded area and people died.  They weren't playing with a gun and it went off, they weren't selling drugs to feed their family, they did this for no reason other than to harm innocent people.  They get no sympathy from me.

However:

Give him a fair trial.  Show the rest of the world that no matter how evil you are, you are not greater than the system.


I'd be certain there are enough photgraphs, videos, and witnesses to every event  that, even without a confession, a fair trial should be simple and therefore should not require any shortcuts or rule bending.

/how do you tell a guy who can't speak that he has the right to remain silent?  It almost sounds like a mean joke.
 
2013-04-22 12:24:57 PM  
A glimmer of humanity?
 
2013-04-22 12:25:27 PM  

Rembrant_Q_Einstein: I wonder why they killed the campus cop. Seems kinda random and it ruined any chance they had for a getaway.


It was random. They were robbing a convenience store for money, happened to see the cop, believed he was calling in back-up, and shot him to keep him from calling in back up.
 
2013-04-22 12:26:17 PM  

serial_crusher: The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.

I guess it's ok to call it a "pin number" if you don't capitalize it?


Everyone knows you need the PIN Number to use the ATM Machine.
 
2013-04-22 12:26:41 PM  
Lets not be quick to judge, we did that already and it cost a lot of lives in a far away land.  Though these things are abhorrent, lets find out why this happened and try to remedy that.  It would be wiser to prevent the tumor from forming than cutting out the tumor when its too late.
 
2013-04-22 12:27:10 PM  

SirGunslinger: I'm just thankful they took their bombing lessons from the Taliban as opposed to the IRA otherwise it could have been a lot worse.


The IRA would frequently call up a location they were about to bomb so that innocent civilians could be evacuated.
 
2013-04-22 12:27:10 PM  

Tatsuma: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

When you look at an 8 year old child, smile, and then put down a bomb next to him, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When the bomb blew up, and that child lay dead, his sister hurt beside him, his mother on the ground unresponsive and people with lost limbs all over, he just stared and looked at the damage before running away. When you do that, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When he came back home, he mocked the victims of the bombing on twitter, the next day he showed up to class very chipper, he went to the gym and to a party. When you do that after the crimes you did, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

After having a few days of fun, they walked to a cop and killed him in cold blood. After carjacking someone,  holding him hostage and taking his cash. Then they engaged in a firefight with coppers and he drove over his brother trying to get away. When you do that after the all the crimes you've done so far, you stop being 'a confused and angry kid'


Stop acting like they are farking victims in all this, people.


very well put. when i read voiceofreason's comment i figured it was just a troll.
 
2013-04-22 12:27:13 PM  
The My Little Pony Killer: "Why are we a-okay with giving these douchebags the fame we don't even want to afford the theater killer?"

Because Fark is nothing if not inconsistent?
 
2013-04-22 12:27:23 PM  

Rembrant_Q_Einstein: I wonder why they killed the campus cop. Seems kinda random and it ruined any chance they had for a getaway.


Probably because higher res photos were already in circulation, and the cop may have recognized the kids.
 
2013-04-22 12:28:17 PM  

serial_crusher: The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.

I guess it's ok to call it a "pin number" if you don't capitalize it?


I don't mind the repetition for PIN number.  It's such a common word with many other meaning you have to give it some context to clue others into what you're talking about.
 
2013-04-22 12:28:33 PM  

Tatsuma: Rembrant_Q_Einstein: I wonder why they killed the campus cop. Seems kinda random and it ruined any chance they had for a getaway.

They didn't want a getaway, they wanted to kill as many as they could before they died.


What do you mean they didn't want a getaway? The younger one farking attended school the next day. Their plan was to back to their life like nothing had happened to not give any suspicion. The second those pictures hit the net they knew it was over and that's what kickstarted them trying to get the fark outta dodge.
 
2013-04-22 12:28:38 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


The 19 year old can use this excuse, also the "following his older brother/mentor" excuse.  The 26 year old man cannot.  By 26 I was a father and well into my career, being responsible for my own actions and paying my taxes on time and such.

Voiceofreason01: So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.


I also agree with this, which is a completely unrelated point to your first one.
 
2013-04-22 12:29:00 PM  
I sure hope that if I ever get kidnapped/carjacked that the perp didn't read this article.
 
2013-04-22 12:29:02 PM  
Dzhokar is 19, legally he's an adult.
 
2013-04-22 12:29:07 PM  

Tatsuma: They didn't want a getaway, they wanted to kill as many as they could before they died.


Naw. Now it could be that they planned some suicide thing down the road, but this wasn't it, they got interrupted. Obviously they planned on killing a lot of people but older brother didn't get all suicidey until he had no way out and little brother never did. And they did in fact get a away for several days.
 
2013-04-22 12:29:12 PM  

serial_crusher: The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.

I guess it's ok to call it a "pin number" if you don't capitalize it?



Besides being redundant:

The brothers would have needed his ATM Personal Identification Number number to access the cash.
 
2013-04-22 12:29:15 PM  

scottydoesntknow: It was random. They were robbing a convenience store for money,


No they weren't. They went to the convenience store and soon afterwards someone unrelated robbed it. It wasn't them.
 
2013-04-22 12:30:45 PM  
There are carjackings  and robberies every day that result in a death. These incidents usually get mentioned on the local news and are little known outside of the town they happened in and are soon forgotten.

If the goal is to terrorize or draw attention to an issue, a bombing death is worth many times a carjacking death. The bombers likely didn't have hatred for the specific people who were killed or injured but a hatred for society in general. Those harmed by the bombing  were a means to an end to harm society as a whole. Shooting someone whose car you've hijacked doesn't accomplish that goal.
 
2013-04-22 12:31:00 PM  

Tatsuma: scottydoesntknow: It was random. They were robbing a convenience store for money,

No they weren't. They went to the convenience store and soon afterwards someone unrelated robbed it. It wasn't them.


Ok, but they only killed the cop because they thought he had spotted them, they weren't just indiscriminately killing at that point.

Otherwise, why did they let the carjacking victim in the story live?
 
2013-04-22 12:31:24 PM  
"The Tsarnaev brothers were competent enough to kill at least four people."

You do not have to be competent at anything to kill people.
 
2013-04-22 12:32:07 PM  
The problem is the carrot that they falsely dangle in front of these kids. 72 Virigns in Paradise.

What they don't know is that it is actually a mistranslation and all they are going to get is 72 Versions of Parrot Ice. Now i like a good fozen drink as much as the next guy, but i'm not gonna kid anyone for the stuff.
 
2013-04-22 12:32:45 PM  

scottydoesntknow: What do you mean they didn't want a getaway? The younger one farking attended school the next day. Their plan was to back to their life like nothing had happened to not give any suspicion. The second those pictures hit the net they knew it was over and that's what kickstarted them trying to get the fark outta dodge.


No, the FBI already said that they knew that they were going to get caught, and had prepared themselves with several hand (homemade)grenades and other explosives to be ready for when the heat would come down on them. They had no plans of coming out of this alive, in jail or not.

bhcompy: The 19 year old can use this excuse, also the "following his older brother/mentor" excuse.


No he can't. Read the post I wrote about this.

JohnBigBootay: Naw. Now it could be that they planned some suicide thing down the road, but this wasn't it, they got interrupted. Obviously they planned on killing a lot of people but older brother didn't get all suicidey until he had no way out and little brother never did. And they did in fact get a away for several days.


I didn't say they couldn't wait to die, they had planned on multiple other bombings along the way, but they knew they'd eventually die from this. It's not that they did this and would return to normal life and live out to be 80 in the suburbs.

They were going to kill until they were confronted and then would go out in a blaze of glory
 
2013-04-22 12:33:12 PM  
Their victim was carjacking?
 
2013-04-22 12:33:29 PM  
It's too bad, they could have played for the NFL football league
 
2013-04-22 12:34:14 PM  

jaybeezey: The problem is the carrot that they falsely dangle in front of these kids. 72 Virigns in Paradise.

What they don't know is that it is actually a mistranslation and all they are going to get is 72 Versions of Parrot Ice. Now i like a good fozen drink as much as the next guy, but i'm not gonna kid anyone for the stuff.


Ok so you would kid 'em, but would you tease 'em or maybe josh 'em?
 
2013-04-22 12:34:16 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Ok, but they only killed the cop because they thought he had spotted them, they weren't just indiscriminately killing at that point.


Except that we can see that they walked up to him in his car, and shot him in cold blood. He had no idea who they were.

Otherwise, why did they let the carjacking victim in the story live?

Because 'he wasn't American'. They wanted to kill Americans and in their minds it was justified. The guy they carjacked was not, therefore THAT would have been murder.

Remember, Tamerlan quit boxing because he said 'A Muslim should not punch a man in the face'. Then he set off bombs in public places.
 
2013-04-22 12:34:51 PM  

Tokin42: Maybe Time magazine should have asked the carjacking victim.  NBC (Pete Williams) says he told them the killers said they wouldn't kill him because he "wasn't American".


And he doesn't want to be identified, probably because he doesn't want to meet the monsters from Maple Street.
 
2013-04-22 12:35:24 PM  

Tatsuma: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

When you look at an 8 year old child, smile, and then put down a bomb next to him, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When the bomb blew up, and that child lay dead, his sister hurt beside him, his mother on the ground unresponsive and people with lost limbs all over, he just stared and looked at the damage before running away. When you do that, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When he came back home, he mocked the victims of the bombing on twitter, the next day he showed up to class very chipper, he went to the gym and to a party. When you do that after the crimes you did, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

After having a few days of fun, they walked to a cop and killed him in cold blood. After carjacking someone,  holding him hostage and taking his cash. Then they engaged in a firefight with coppers and he drove over his brother trying to get away. When you do that after the all the crimes you've done so far, you stop being 'a confused and angry kid'



If I start an Israel thread how long will it take you to start calling for the deaths of Palestinians?

/in a civilized world there is never a reason not to err on the side of mercy.
 
2013-04-22 12:35:31 PM  
Dorner let the two people live who id'd him which was his downfall
 
2013-04-22 12:35:45 PM  

PapaChester: "The Tsarnaev brothers were competent enough to kill at least four people."

You do not have to be competent at anything to kill people.


Actually if you look at most mass shootings, you clearly have to have a degree of competency and planning in order to kill people.

Take the serial stabber at Lone Star college who wanted to kill as many people as he can. He brought a knife, the blade broke and then he ran away because he didn't even have a backup weapon. Didn't even think about that.
 
2013-04-22 12:35:52 PM  

Carlip: That seems a bit superfluous.


No, it's superfluously redundant in a repetitive way.
 
2013-04-22 12:36:28 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


F*ck you. These pieces of shiat blew up an 8 year old. F*ck you. I'll say it again: F*CK YOU.
 
2013-04-22 12:37:31 PM  

Voiceofreason01: If I start an Israel thread how long will it take you to start calling for the deaths of Palestinians?


So when someone calls your post for being simply wrong, you decide doubling down on idiocy is the way to go? Good job, champ.

Voiceofreason01: /in a civilized world there is never a reason not to err on the side of mercy.


He who is merciful to the cruel will one day be cruel to those who deserve mercy.


Everyone is deserving of fair and equal treatment under the law, not everyone deserves mercy.
 
2013-04-22 12:37:44 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I think the fact that they committed a terrorist bombing on a street packed solid with security cameras of all kinds and apparently had no exit strategy whatsoever sums up their cunning criminal minds.  If being rock stupid was a defense the jails would be very empty.

This is the city where John Adams defended the British soldiers accused in the Boston Massacre. Give this moron a fair trial with a vigorous defense. If convicted THEN hang him by his feet in the Common and auction off baseball bats to benefit the victims and put it all on Pay-Per-View.


Adams also signed the Alien and Sedition Acts into law as President. Not really the go to guy for what you want, here.
 
2013-04-22 12:38:02 PM  

nekom: simplicimus: It would be fitting if he were tried in Boston, but selecting an impartial Jury would be pretty near impossible. So I guess it will be a federal prosecution.

McVeigh's trial was moved to Colorado after the court granted a change of venue. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same requested, and granted in this case for that very reason. I'm not sure it makes much sense though, while the victims were all in Boston at the time, the audience was the entire nation. I'm not sure it's safe to assume that he'd get any more of a fair trial in any other part of the country, honestly.

i38.tinypic.com
And I agree with you. It's impossible to find an impartial jury in Canton. I think it's impossible to find an impartial jury anywhere in Mississippi. As such a jury here would be as fair as a jury anywhere else. So I decided to deny your request for a change of venue.
 
2013-04-22 12:38:09 PM  

Tatsuma: No, the FBI already said that they knew that they were going to get caught, and had prepared themselves with several hand (homemade)grenades and other explosives to be ready for when the heat would come down on them. They had no plans of coming out of this alive, in jail or not.


Do you have a source for that? I haven't heard anything from the FBI.

And I highly doubt the kid had "no plans of coming out of this alive", since he came out of this alive.
 
2013-04-22 12:38:15 PM  

Tatsuma: scottydoesntknow: It was random. They were robbing a convenience store for money,

No they weren't. They went to the convenience store and soon afterwards someone unrelated robbed it. It wasn't them.


Not that every report is correct, but the BPD reported the robbery was not OF the 7/11, it was AT the 7/11 - specifically it was the carjacking.  The store robbery by someone else while they were there is apparently false.
 
2013-04-22 12:38:26 PM  

PapaChester: "The Tsarnaev brothers were competent enough to kill at least four people."

You do not have to be competent at anything to kill people.


I think that was a reference to the other case mentioned where the bombers blew themselves up because they couldn't tell time.
 
2013-04-22 12:38:49 PM  

Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.


He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.
 
2013-04-22 12:39:29 PM  
Tatsuma:Everyone is deserving of fair and equal treatment under the law, not everyone deserves mercy.

but I don't see you being very quick to call out the posts that are essentially calling for this boy to be lynched.
 
2013-04-22 12:39:35 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


You're interrupting the 2 minutes hate.

Seems to really be out in force today. Every media outlet is all "YOU AREN'T NEARLY SCARED AND ANGRY ENOUGH ABOUT THIS. BE SCARED AND ANGRY YOU USELESS EATERS".

Miss the days when Fark would mock the fearmongering of the MSM, and not engage in it. Now practically every time i come here i see "OMG bird flu is going to KILL everyone" and "let's talk about terrorists, and how they want to BLOW UP your children for no reason".
 
2013-04-22 12:39:40 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


maybe you're a confused kid. Making explosive devices designed to cause a lot of damage and placing them in a heavily populated area = bloodthirsty. shooting and throwing grenades at cops = bloodthirsty. trying to run over cops = bloodthirsty. shooting a security guard in the head = bloodthirsty killer.
 
2013-04-22 12:40:02 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Tatsuma: scottydoesntknow: It was random. They were robbing a convenience store for money,

No they weren't. They went to the convenience store and soon afterwards someone unrelated robbed it. It wasn't them.

Ok, but they only killed the cop because they thought he had spotted them, they weren't just indiscriminately killing at that point.

Otherwise, why did they let the carjacking victim in the story live?


It took this long for this thread to go around in a complete circle ?  Somebody is slipping .
 
2013-04-22 12:41:30 PM  

Tatsuma: No he can't. Read the post I wrote about this.


Oh sure. No need to tug my emotional heartstrings. He is responsible for despicable things which will visit unimaginable suffering on families until the day they die. He owns it. But still - I read the interviews with the younger dc sniper and see how he feels (no, not that it matters, not that I forgive him, not that it changes anything or that his feelings matter so don't put words in my mouth) today and it's kind of surprising. Not what I expected. One case is not the other of course, maybe the younger kid was the impetus - i have no idea.
 
2013-04-22 12:41:30 PM  

Tatsuma: not everyone deserves mercy.


Actually according the some religions, everyone does.
 
2013-04-22 12:41:40 PM  

Voiceofreason01: So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail.


Your Fark Handle.
I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
2013-04-22 12:41:42 PM  

nekom: basemetal: Meh, fark that piece of shiat.  If he lives, he'll get a fair trial, an expensive trial, and he'll get a needle in his arm, which is better than he deserves.  And it being federal, he'll get that needle a lot sooner than for a state death penalty.

What do you base that on? The last part, that is. McVeigh went fast, but he was a "volunteer". There haven't been a whole hell of a lot of federal death penalty cases in recent years to go by.


Without even looking I know of at least one

Federal Jury Imposes Death Sentence Against Connecticut Drug Dealer Convicted of Murder and Related Charges
 
2013-04-22 12:41:49 PM  

Tatsuma: scottydoesntknow: Ok, but they only killed the cop because they thought he had spotted them, they weren't just indiscriminately killing at that point.

Except that we can see that they walked up to him in his car, and shot him in cold blood. He had no idea who they were.


I'm not saying he knew who they were, I'm saying they THOUGHT he knew who they were. They didn't shoot him because he was a white guy, they shot him because he was a cop, and odds are he had seen their mugs plastered all over the place and would connect the dots.
 
2013-04-22 12:42:10 PM  
I'll buy this.

Consider that the bombs went off at 2:50. If they thought the race was going to start at 12 noon, they would have expected the premiere racers to come through, hence more of a crowd and a splash.
 
2013-04-22 12:42:17 PM  
Uncle Pooky:
maybe you're a confused kid. Making explosive devices designed to cause a lot of damage and placing them in a heavily populated area = bloodthirsty. shooting and throwing grenades at cops = bloodthirsty. trying to run over cops = bloodthirsty. shooting a security guard in the head = bloodthirsty killer.

you sounds scared. Better kill that scary brown kid quick. Hell why don't you go ahead and skip the trial....it's just a waste of time anyway.
 
2013-04-22 12:42:25 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Do you have a source for that? I haven't heard anything from the FBI.


That's what they said in a press conference, that they had planned this and wanted to create this whole situation.

Nana's Vibrator: Not that every report is correct, but the BPD reported the robbery was not OF the 7/11, it was AT the 7/11 - specifically it was the carjacking. The store robbery by someone else while they were there is apparently false.


No, the Boston PD said they were unrelated, the robbery was by a lone white male, 5'11" 200 pounds wearing all black from the waist up with some kind of head covering

Voiceofreason01: but I don't see you being very quick to call out the posts that are essentially calling for this boy to be lynched.


Except I did many, many times yesterday. I would have done it in this thread, but I the first thing I saw was so incredibly stupid and wrong, I was distracted.
 
2013-04-22 12:42:53 PM  
: The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.
 
2013-04-22 12:43:29 PM  
FTA: How did the Tsarnaev brothers allow the man they carjacked on Thursday night to get away?

The premise of this article is offensive; they're asking the readers to join in on their media derp-fest of presenting this as a movie script, conditioning us for the inevitable made-for-TV movie.
 
2013-04-22 12:43:31 PM  

Nana's Vibrator: I'd be certain there are enough photgraphs, videos, and witnesses to every event  that, even without a confession, a fair trial should be simple and therefore should not require any shortcuts or rule bending.

/how do you tell a guy who can't speak that he has the right to remain silent?  It almost sounds like a mean joke.


Given my experience, the photographs and videos are more damning than an outright confession.  Far too many people have been pressured into making a fake one.

For the 'right to remain silent', it's a 'right not to communicate', whether that's by speech, written statement, sign language, or even tapping.

Personally, I wanted both of them to be caught alive, for the evidence value alone - I want the contacts that encouraged the older brother to embark on this course arrested and prosecuted as well.  Or shot by the Russians...
 
2013-04-22 12:44:21 PM  

SlothB77: if you are going to brag to someone, it is kinda pointless to brag to them and then kill them immediately after.


You mean like the plot of almost every book, movie and TV murder mystery ever?
 
2013-04-22 12:45:20 PM  

derpy:
[i38.tinypic.com image 850x548]
And I agree with you. It's impossible to find an impartial jury in Canton. I think it's impossible to find an impartial jury anywhere in Mississippi. As such a jury here would be as fair as a jury anywhere else. So I decided to deny your request for a change of venue.


In that movie (FANTASTIC film, btw), wasn't the judge pretty much right about that?
 
2013-04-22 12:45:53 PM  

wxboy: serial_crusher: The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.

I guess it's ok to call it a "pin number" if you don't capitalize it?

If only they'd written "ATM machine PIN number".


Automated Teller Machine Machine Personal Identification Number Number....

Ok, so one of those fark handles belongs to Greg Nice

/rocks for a fee (fee), not for free (free)
 
2013-04-22 12:45:58 PM  

JohnBigBootay: But still - I read the interviews with the younger dc sniper and see how he feels


The younger D.C. sniper was supposedly roped into it, therefore every other younger accomplices always is?

vernonFL: Actually according the some religions, everyone does.


According to the Constitution, that's irrelevant.

scottydoesntknow: I'm not saying he knew who they were, I'm saying they THOUGHT he knew who they were. They didn't shoot him because he was a white guy, they shot him because he was a cop, and odds are he had seen their mugs plastered all over the place and would connect the dots.


Except that they were not in his line of sight, and they specifically walked up to him and killed him in absolute cold blood.
 
2013-04-22 12:46:53 PM  
I'd imagine murdering someone at close range, up-close and personal, as in during a carjacking probably takes a considerable degree of courage.  It's not like pressing a button several yards from your victim(s).
 
2013-04-22 12:47:54 PM  

Voiceofreason01: you sounds scared. Better kill that scary brown kid quick. Hell why don't you go ahead and skip the trial....it's just a waste of time anyway.


So accuse him of being a racist and wanting to remove his rights AND call him a coward.

You haven't shot your credibility enough in this thread, might as well keep firing until it just goes click click click
 
2013-04-22 12:48:01 PM  

nmemkha: A glimmer of humanity?


One of us has a funny view of humanity.
 
2013-04-22 12:48:05 PM  
After blowing up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City in April 1995, Timothy McVeigh was caught after being pulled him over for driving without a license plate, always a good way to attract police notice quickly.

-----

After being pulled him over????

Hire a new editor times
 
2013-04-22 12:48:07 PM  
Really?? I'm as bleeding heart as they come, but people defending these scum are unbelievable. They are nothing but cold blooded killers. He deserves to face the court, and hopefully get the needle. End of story.
 
2013-04-22 12:48:19 PM  

He_Hate_Me: SirGunslinger: I'm just thankful they took their bombing lessons from the Taliban as opposed to the IRA otherwise it could have been a lot worse.

The IRA would frequently call up a location they were about to bomb so that innocent civilians could be evacuated.


Aaah, good old days
 
2013-04-22 12:48:20 PM  

Tatsuma: bhcompy: The 19 year old can use this excuse, also the "following his older brother/mentor" excuse.

No he can't. Read the post I wrote about this.


Sure, he can use the excuse.  It's an affirmative defense and it doesn't pardon his crimes, only lessens the blame from 50/50 to <50, just like any coercion.  Proving an affirmative defense can be a difficult thing, and it's just an excuse until he proves it.

And, scientifically, 19 year old brains are still developing and hormones of that age interfere with thought processes(a big reason why very young adult males make ideal soldiers).  Again, this doesn't pardon the actions and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but it contributes to the decision making processes and helps with understanding of the "why" so that we can do whatever we can to try and prevent these things from happening in the future.
 
2013-04-22 12:48:27 PM  

Tatsuma: scottydoesntknow: Do you have a source for that? I haven't heard anything from the FBI.

That's what they said in a press conference, that they had planned this and wanted to create this whole situation.


All I'm finding is that they had planned to carry out more attacks, which would go in line with them returning to everyday activities so as not to look suspicious. You can't really conduct more planned attacks when there's a nationwide manhunt and everyone knows exactly what you look like.

They had no idea that there were so many cameras watching them and it all fell to shiat the second it went national.
 
2013-04-22 12:48:53 PM  

EdNortonsTwin: I'd imagine murdering someone at close range, up-close and personal, as in during a carjacking probably takes a considerable degree of courage.  It's not like pressing a button several yards from your victim(s).


That's exactly what they did to the cop. That's exactly what they did to the victims when they put down the bombs right next to them while looking them in the eyes.

The reason they didn't kill the driver is because he was not an American and they only wanted to kill Americans
 
2013-04-22 12:48:59 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Uncle Pooky:
maybe you're a confused kid. Making explosive devices designed to cause a lot of damage and placing them in a heavily populated area = bloodthirsty. shooting and throwing grenades at cops = bloodthirsty. trying to run over cops = bloodthirsty. shooting a security guard in the head = bloodthirsty killer.

you sounds scared. Better kill that scary brown kid quick. Hell why don't you go ahead and skip the trial....it's just a waste of time anyway.


Funny how I apparently sound "scared", but you're the one making huge leaps of logic and introducing points that I don't even remotely hint at - while simultaneously making no attempt to refute anything I actually said (which is admittedly hard to do, since it all actually did happen).
 
2013-04-22 12:50:28 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: I'll buy this.

Consider that the bombs went off at 2:50. If they thought the race was going to start at 12 noon, they would have expected the premiere racers to come through, hence more of a crowd and a splash.


I'd heard another take on this that made a little more sense to me. Last year's marathon was run in extremely hot conditions, so most of the runners took it easy on the course and finished a lot later than they normally would have. This year's race was in fairly normal conditions for this area so the times were a little quicker, meaning more people would have left the area earlier in the day as the "top" runners came in.
 
2013-04-22 12:51:08 PM  

Tommy Moo: Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.

He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.


You FAIL at being an American. The only difference between our nation and every other in the world is the document by which it was founded. That document clearly lays out what accused criminals deserve when facing charges by the state.

People like you who easily cast that aside for convenience and / or revenge do more harm to this once great nation compared to all terrorists combined. Instead of steadfastly holding to our convictions as a nation in the face of adversity the majority cowers and demands its pound of flesh.
 
2013-04-22 12:51:30 PM  

zvoidx: FTA: How did the Tsarnaev brothers allow the man they carjacked on Thursday night to get away?

The premise of this article is offensive; they're asking the readers to join in on their media derp-fest of presenting this as a movie script, conditioning us for the inevitable made-for-TV movie.


According to many in the right wing blogosphere (and my FWD FWD FWD FWD FWDing cousin), it was a bumper sticker that spared the car-jacking victims.

content.clearchannel.com

Yes, people believe this crap.
 
2013-04-22 12:52:17 PM  

Tommy Moo: Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.

He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.


We're all mad too, but there's seriously no need to go full retard on these guys.
 
2013-04-22 12:52:38 PM  

vernonFL: Tatsuma: not everyone deserves mercy.

Actually according the some religions, everyone does.


Are you telling me the god of Abraham and Tatsuma believes in mercy?
 
2013-04-22 12:53:01 PM  

Tatsuma: The younger D.C. sniper was supposedly roped into it, therefore every other younger accomplices always is?


When you completely ignore just about every other word I wrote it makes for a really unsatisfying discussion. I said nothing of the sort and in fact said several things to the contrary.
 
2013-04-22 12:53:12 PM  
Where do people get the idea he isn't going to get a fair trial?  Where?!  They delayed giving him some rights in the interest of public safety as provided by the law.  That's it!

He'll get his trial.  It's kind of funny how the people who seem offended that they aren't getting every bit of evidence released publicly are the same ones who are concerned he won't get a fair trial. Let's assume that 99% of the evidence hasn't been released.  That's the evidence that the prosecuters have considered.  I'm quite sure they aren't going to take any liberties and risk letting him off on a technicality.  Thus, he'll get his fair trial.
 
2013-04-22 12:54:28 PM  

JarynFrostwing: serial_crusher: The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.

I guess it's ok to call it a "pin number" if you don't capitalize it?

Everyone knows you need the PIN Number to use the ATM Machine.


There was once a report in The Onion about some guy who tried to impress his date by selecting the "Spanish" option while making a cash withdrawal.  The farkin' ATM confiscated his card. Hyuck, yuck

/still thinks about that when presented with the option

//tempted to try Spanish, but never quite enough
 
2013-04-22 12:54:56 PM  
You are all equally pathetic...Jews, Muslims and of course the equally blood thirsty Christians.

All of you personify what is wrong with the Human race.

What else would one expect from simple minds...religion
 
2013-04-22 12:54:57 PM  

scottydoesntknow: All I'm finding is that they had planned to carry out more attacks, which would go in line with them returning to everyday activities so as not to look suspicious. You can't really conduct more planned attacks when there's a nationwide manhunt and everyone knows exactly what you look like.

They had no idea that there were so many cameras watching them and it all fell to shiat the second it went national.


Here's how they basically wanted it to come down, all the way in terms of code.

[1] if bombing goes well then
verify if police unto us
if positive goto 4 if negative goto 2
[2] return to normal life then
plan a new bombing then goto 1
[3] if cover is blown
go out in a blaze of glory goto 4
[4] VIRGINS
bone them
 
2013-04-22 12:55:05 PM  
I'm curious about how this guy is being treated by the nurses and such in the hospital.

Do the investigators take the nurses aside and say "Try to hide your contempt for this asshole. Make him feel like he's among people who might understand his viewpoint"?

Do they say "Don't talk to him at all. Don't even acknowledge his existence as you're sullenly adjusting his IV" so one of the interrogators can play the "Good Cop" in order to get him to talk/write?

Most likely, the nurses just rise above it and treat him like any other patient. Because they're professionals. But I do wonder what mind-games the investigators might be playing with him at this point.
 
2013-04-22 12:55:34 PM  

bhcompy: vernonFL: Tatsuma: not everyone deserves mercy.

Actually according the some religions, everyone does.

Are you telling me the god of Abraham and Tatsuma believes in mercy?


But the god of Abraham and Tatsuma is the same god as these kids believed in, so we've come full circle, people!
 
2013-04-22 12:56:15 PM  

Babbs: Really?? I'm as bleeding heart as they come, but people defending these scum are unbelievable. They are nothing but cold blooded killers. He deserves to face the court, and hopefully get the needle. End of story.


I haven't seen anyone 'defending' anyone. There's nothing wrong with discussing motivations and in fact it's exactly what should be done. They (he) should be vigorously prosecuted and I have literally not seen a single person arguing otherwise.
 
2013-04-22 12:56:30 PM  
Don't forget the the shoe bomber who's bomb failed to go off (win) because he had sweaty feet. Thanks to this ahole we all have to take our shoes off now at the airport.
 
2013-04-22 12:56:49 PM  

bhcompy: Sure, he can use the excuse. It's an affirmative defense and it doesn't pardon his crimes, only lessens the blame from 50/50 to <50, just like any coercion. Proving an affirmative defense can be a difficult thing, and it's just an excuse until he proves it.

And, scientifically, 19 year old brains are still developing and hormones of that age interfere with thought processes(a big reason why very young adult males make ideal soldiers). Again, this doesn't pardon the actions and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but it contributes to the decision making processes and helps with understanding of the "why" so that we can do whatever we can to try and prevent these things from happening in the future.


Poor boy, let's just give him a couple of years in prison and then rehabilitate him, because clearly SCIENCE says he never would have done that if he had only live to grow and become 26 year o-
 
2013-04-22 12:56:52 PM  

Tatsuma: Mr. Coffee Nerves: apparently had no exit strategy whatsoever sums up their cunning criminal minds.

You really don't understand Islamic terrorism if you think 'exit strategy' plays any part in it whatsoever.

Voiceofreason01: Oh for farks sake, this is going green?

That'll teach you to kneejerk on TF thinking it's not going to go public

I_Am_Weasel: I'm guessing that they weren't behaving entirely rational.

Everything that they did was rational. Evil? Yes. Rational? Absolutely.

They wanted to create a confrontation with the cops and go out in a blaze of glory in order to kill more people. I don't understand what's not rational with this frame of mind if you're an Islamic terrorist.




Except that wasn't part of the original plan. If they wanted to do that, they would've bombed the start of the race, then did a happy dance yelling "Hey look at me! I did it!" as police swarmed the area.

The cop confrontation thing only happened when they realized that their carefully crafted plan "to blow random people up" (which, really, is the easy part of the plan), didn't include "and get away with it" beyond trying to resume life as normal. They had absolutely no intent on confronting anybody. At least until it became obvious that they were toast.

A true "terrorist" (for whatever you want that to mean), does have an exit strategy (along with a way or means to get out their message); whether it's as simple as "suicide mission", or something a little more complicated involving passports and a dufflebag full of cash or some friendly operatives who you can use as safehouses.

I read someone that equated these idiots with arsonists; they do something that causes damage, but then sort of hang around to watch the results. I think that is a good comparison in this case, from everything I've read so far.

Regardless, it obviously doesn't bring back anyone who is dead or injured.
 
2013-04-22 12:57:07 PM  

bhcompy: vernonFL: Tatsuma: not everyone deserves mercy.

Actually according the some religions, everyone does.

Are you telling me the god of Abraham and Tatsuma believes in mercy?


And the Protestant G-D believes in eternal torment after death. Is that mercy?
 
2013-04-22 12:57:29 PM  

Tatsuma: Voiceofreason01: If I start an Israel thread how long will it take you to start calling for the deaths of Palestinians?

So when someone calls your post for being simply wrong, you decide doubling down on idiocy is the way to go? Good job, champ.

Voiceofreason01: /in a civilized world there is never a reason not to err on the side of mercy.

He who is merciful to the cruel will one day be cruel to those who deserve mercy.


Everyone is deserving of fair and equal treatment under the law, not everyone deserves mercy.


mercy


Man, you must roll your eyes when you watch Dr. Who.
 
2013-04-22 12:58:22 PM  

Tatsuma: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

When you look at an 8 year old child, smile, and then put down a bomb next to him, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When the bomb blew up, and that child lay dead, his sister hurt beside him, his mother on the ground unresponsive and people with lost limbs all over, he just stared and looked at the damage before running away. When you do that, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

When he came back home, he mocked the victims of the bombing on twitter, the next day he showed up to class very chipper, he went to the gym and to a party. When you do that after the crimes you did, you stop being a 'confused and angry kid'.

After having a few days of fun, they walked to a cop and killed him in cold blood. After carjacking someone,  holding him hostage and taking his cash. Then they engaged in a firefight with coppers and he drove over his brother trying to get away. When you do that after the all the crimes you've done so far, you stop being 'a confused and angry kid'


Stop acting like they are farking victims in all this, people.


Tatsuma on my side? It's more likely than you think!

But honestly, we're dealing with mass murderers here. I don't care their age, religion, ethnicity, who their parents are, who their friends are, I want justice.

Pure, unadulterated, justice.

/Bostonian
 
2013-04-22 12:58:32 PM  
Mike: In thirteen years with the bureau I've discovered that there's no amount of money, man-power or knowledge that can equal the person you're looking for being stupid.Bartlet: God, well, some of the stupidest criminals in the world are working right here in America. I've always been very proud of that.
 
2013-04-22 12:58:52 PM  
Trapper439:

Do they say "Don't talk to him at all. Don't even acknowledge his existence as you're sullenly adjusting his IV" so one of the interrogators can play the "Good Cop" in order to get him to talk/write?


I would assume they did give that instruction, but not for the reason you suggest. More of a safeguard thing. They want this case as untainted as it can possibly be.
 
2013-04-22 12:59:08 PM  

Jument: I am frequently amazed at how stupid most "bad guys" seem to be. We're freakin' lucky for that. If the bad guys were serious we would have an Oklahoma City every week and we've be royally farked.


Yep.  That's why competent murderers (serial killers) are so much more frightening.  Most people who are messed up enough to kill (and make no mistake about it, willingness to murder people is a mental defect) also have enough other mental problems on top of that.  Many are just morons/dumb asses.

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


There can be something to be said of this.  They're messed up either way, but it's one thing to plant a bomb and walk away and another to point a gun and kill someone a few feet from you.
 
2013-04-22 12:59:17 PM  
I used to support the death penalty for capital offenses until I realized that solitary confinement for the rest of your natural life is a far worse punishment.  I'm talking about 4 walls, a cot, and a crapper.  Nothing else.  No TV, no music, no books, no contact with anyone other than the guards who trot you into a slightly larger cell for exercise once a day.  Preferably fed nothing but nutraloaf and water.

That would be fair.
 
2013-04-22 12:59:35 PM  

Tatsuma: No, the Boston PD said they were unrelated, the robbery was by a lone white male, 5'11" 200 pounds wearing all black from the waist up with some kind of head covering


Imagine how that robber must feel.
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-22 12:59:39 PM  

JohnBigBootay: When you completely ignore just about every other word I wrote it makes for a really unsatisfying discussion. I said nothing of the sort and in fact said several things to the contrary.


I will admit that when I got to the 'see how he feels', I stopped reading and rolled my eyes, thinking you were going to defend him like a few people in this thread about being roped into it and really being his big brother's fault

Sincere apologies about that, it wasn't fair of me not to read the rest of your post but answer anyway. Really sorry about that, not something I usually do and won't do it again
 
2013-04-22 01:00:23 PM  
MBK:

Give him a fair trial.  Show the rest of the world that no matter how evil you are, you are not greater than the system.

They arrested Dick Cheney?
 
2013-04-22 01:01:01 PM  

Tatsuma: Poor boy, let's just give him a couple of years in prison and then rehabilitate him, because clearly SCIENCE says he never would have done that if he had only live to grow and become 26 year o-


He didn't say that. Boy, you're getting a little derpy all the sudden. Gee, I wonder how the IDF have become so effective at spotting terrorists. It's almost like they have engaged heavily in the kind of analysis bhcompy is talking about...
 
2013-04-22 01:01:49 PM  
Seems the younger brother was trippin' all the way. I'd really like him to just spill the beans on what the whole thing was about. The finish line was targeted because there would be more casualties, but why kill the cop? Seems they were just running around without a plan.
 
2013-04-22 01:02:03 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Tommy Moo: Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.

He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.

We're all mad too, but there's seriously no need to go full retard on these guys.


Are you? It sure doesn't seem like it. It seems like there is an overabundance of concern for this shiatbird, to the point where a great number of people have forgotten to be mad at him. One person in this thread just told me that I'm a worse person than he is, because he's a poor, poor victim and I'm a mean, judgmental jerk.
 
2013-04-22 01:02:08 PM  
 
2013-04-22 01:02:14 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


bbsimg.ngfiles.com
 
2013-04-22 01:02:30 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Tatsuma:Everyone is deserving of fair and equal treatment under the law, not everyone deserves mercy.

but I don't see you being very quick to call out the posts that are essentially calling for this boy to be lynched.


That's ok, I never see you call out Palestinians for killing anyone, so it all evens out.

/Since you wanted to bring that into the thread anyway
 
2013-04-22 01:02:32 PM  

Evil Mackerel: MBK:

Give him a fair trial.  Show the rest of the world that no matter how evil you are, you are not greater than the system.

They arrested Dick Cheney?


Nah, he only shot one person. You get a free pass for one.
 
2013-04-22 01:03:02 PM  

snowshovel: Except that wasn't part of the original plan. If they wanted to do that, they would've bombed the start of the race, then did a happy dance yelling "Hey look at me! I did it!" as police swarmed the area.

The cop confrontation thing only happened when they realized that their carefully crafted plan "to blow random people up" (which, really, is the easy part of the plan), didn't include "and get away with it" beyond trying to resume life as normal. They had absolutely no intent on confronting anybody. At least until it became obvious that they were toast.


I wrote the 'code' of what they planned to do earlier, basically more and more bombings until the FBI would be closing in, and then go out in a blaze of glory. They wanted to kill as many people as they could before they died.

BafflerMeal: Man, you must roll your eyes when you watch Dr. Who.


I don't. Still roll my eyes though
 
2013-04-22 01:03:21 PM  
VoiceofReason

  I don't know if you are a troll or not but, regarding your "they are kids" post?

  At 19 I was a married homeowner - 18 is considered the age of legal majority.

  If your point was the younger brother may have been swayed by the elder (who was a married father), fine. However? Its fairly common practice to teach our children by the time they have rudimentary eye/hand coordination "don't hit/hurt/bite" and so on. These two "kids" killed and maimed people, period.

  I'd also like to ask you this - "kids" younger than 19 go to wars we start - if they are kids, then maybe we should up the age of enlistment to - what? 30? Is that adult enough to know/learn how to not kill innocents, on purpose, with explosives? or is that just old enough to lose your legs when kids make mistakes?

 " Kids" my happy, healthy wiggling toes - this had little to do with their legally adult age.
 
2013-04-22 01:03:43 PM  

snowshovel: Except that wasn't part of the original plan. If they wanted to do that, they would've bombed the start of the race, then did a happy dance yelling "Hey look at me! I did it!" as police swarmed the area.

The cop confrontation thing only happened when they realized that their carefully crafted plan "to blow random people up" (which, really, is the easy part of the plan), didn't include "and get away with it" beyond trying to resume life as normal. They had absolutely no intent on confronting anybody. At least until it became obvious that they were toast.

A true "terrorist" (for whatever you want that to mean), does have an exit strategy (along with a way or means to get out their message); whether it's as simple as "suicide mission", or something a little more complicated involving passports and a dufflebag full of cash or some friendly operatives who you can use as safehouses.

I read someone that equated these idiots with arsonists; they do something that causes damage, but then sort of hang around to watch the results. I think that is a good comparison in this case, from everything I've read so far.

Regardless, it obviously doesn't bring back anyone who is dead or injured.


I read that the younger one was at a party a couple of nights after the bombing.  I don't know why they stuck around, especially considering the younger one didn't even wear sunglasses or anything to hide his identity.  They could have been anywhere by now if they hadn't been such dumbasses.
 
2013-04-22 01:03:54 PM  

Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.


Oh hell yes it is.  An eye for an eye I say.  World would be a better AND SAFER place...
 
2013-04-22 01:03:57 PM  
It obviously means they weren't the bombers.
 
2013-04-22 01:04:50 PM  

Jument: I am frequently amazed at how stupid most "bad guys" seem to be. We're freakin' lucky for that. If the bad guys were serious we would have an Oklahoma City every week and we've be royally farked.


I think it's more that there aren't so many guys who are THAT bad.
 
2013-04-22 01:05:04 PM  

Tatsuma: I will admit that when I got to the 'see how he feels', I stopped reading and rolled my eyes, thinking you were going to defend him like a few people in this thread about being roped into it and really being his big brother's fault

Sincere apologies about that, it wasn't fair of me not to read the rest of your post but answer anyway. Really sorry about that, not something I usually do and won't do it again


No worries. You have been in a position to think about all this stuff a lot more than I have. It's a very emotional issue but my sincere belief is these things are best dealt with by professionals who can (try) to be analytical and preserve the rule of law while doing so. Let me assure everyone that I loathe bombers and believe fully that this young man should never see the light of day. While it's also saddening that a young person wasted HIS own life it is most certainly not his life I am primarily concerned with at the moment. But I do believe we can more effectively deal with and avoid future situations by completely understanding the mindset of the perpetrators. Just seems common sense to me. So I do want to know how he feels and how he got to where he got to. It's important.
 
2013-04-22 01:05:18 PM  
I'm thinking that they made a deal with him: do what we say, and we'll let you live. He upheld his part of the bargain, and they upheld theirs. Simple, really.
 
2013-04-22 01:06:20 PM  
There's a big difference between dropping a bomb, walking away, and then letting it explode to kill people, and actively shooting a human being in the face.

And I would imagine there'd be a difference in these kids minds between shooting at a police officer, and killing a civilian.

Obviously, the kids are demented... cops are people too (though lots of people don't act like they are, even people who aren't blowing stuff up), and if you're going to do something that kills innocent people, there should be no difference whether you're pointing the trigger at their faces or leaving a bomb somewhere (though obviously, emotionally, there is, and emotions aren't logical...  but we can understand them).

I'm not at all baffled by why the brothers didn't kill the dude, and I am a little weirded out that the article's all 'they made such a mistake by not killing that guy!  Silly terrorists.'
 
2013-04-22 01:06:39 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.


For someone who calls himself "Voice of Reason", you're making a lot of emotionally-fed leaps and accusing people of saying a lot of things they never said.  I don't think doglover ever advocated for beating and sexually assaulting this guy.
 
2013-04-22 01:06:44 PM  

corronchilejano: Seems the younger brother was trippin' all the way. I'd really like him to just spill the beans on what the whole thing was about. The finish line was targeted because there would be more casualties, but why kill the cop? Seems they were just running around without a plan.


It is just another meat bag of fear and religiousis bullchit.
Not worth the bother to figure out, because the ending has already been spoiled.
 
2013-04-22 01:06:57 PM  
This thread is worse than rape.

No mercy for the bombers.
 
2013-04-22 01:07:11 PM  

Tatsuma: bhcompy: Sure, he can use the excuse. It's an affirmative defense and it doesn't pardon his crimes, only lessens the blame from 50/50 to <50, just like any coercion. Proving an affirmative defense can be a difficult thing, and it's just an excuse until he proves it.

And, scientifically, 19 year old brains are still developing and hormones of that age interfere with thought processes(a big reason why very young adult males make ideal soldiers). Again, this doesn't pardon the actions and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but it contributes to the decision making processes and helps with understanding of the "why" so that we can do whatever we can to try and prevent these things from happening in the future.

Poor boy, let's just give him a couple of years in prison and then rehabilitate him, because clearly SCIENCE says he never would have done that if he had only live to grow and become 26 year o-


You could try reading.
 
2013-04-22 01:07:16 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And he doesn't want to be identified, probably because he doesn't want to meet the monsters from Maple Street.


I take your point, but since it remains one of my favorite episodes, I am compelled to point out that "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street".  They are not "from" Maple Street.

But, after all:

The pattern is always the same.  With few variations.
 
2013-04-22 01:07:24 PM  

btraz70: Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.

Oh hell yes it is.  An eye for an eye I say.  World would be a better AND SAFER place...


digital-art-gallery.com
They don't have enough eyes.
 
2013-04-22 01:07:59 PM  
He's going to get his fair trial, he is going to be found guilty.  He should be executed for his crimes.  There is no reason in letting this animal live once he's been interrogated and every bit of information that he's able to give has been collected.

The absolute worse punishment we can dish out is life in prison without the chance at parole.  At least with a chance at parole, you have something to work for, something to hope for.  With death there is an end date.  With life without parole, that's an unknown amount of decades where you will be in the hell that is prison without it ever ended.  Even when it's 23 hours a day of solitude in a supermax, it's still 23 a day in a small cage alone, might as well be dead at that point.

Put a needle in his arm and end his life.  He ended the life of 3 people without a second thought when those bombs went off.  I think he killed another Thursday night.  His life should end, and we should give him the same thought he gave those others.  None.
 
2013-04-22 01:08:14 PM  

JohnBigBootay: He didn't say that. Boy, you're getting a little derpy all the sudden. Gee, I wonder how the IDF have become so effective at spotting terrorists. It's almost like they have engaged heavily in the kind of analysis bhcompy is talking about...


It is completely bullshiat to use biology in any capacity to excuse the actions of the guy.

Saying that, 'being 19' his brain has not fully formed the way it should be and therefore- is bullshiat. We're not talking about a 10 year old, but a 19 year old.

I've seen plenty of people trying to use this excuse with him and I'm sorry, he was farking 19 year old, he wasn't a kid and he knew fully well what he was doing, and he wasn't some malleable puppy who was abused by his older brother who roped him into this
 
2013-04-22 01:09:24 PM  

Tatsuma: EdNortonsTwin: I'd imagine murdering someone at close range, up-close and personal, as in during a carjacking probably takes a considerable degree of courage.  It's not like pressing a button several yards from your victim(s).

That's exactly what they did to the cop. That's exactly what they did to the victims when they put down the bombs right next to them while looking them in the eyes.

The reason they didn't kill the driver is because he was not an American and they only wanted to kill Americans


Bullshiat. That makes no sense at all. The Boston Marathon is an international event. They had no reason to believe that the crowd in which they detonated the bombs would only be American. In fact, one of the dead was Chinese.
 
2013-04-22 01:09:57 PM  

Great Janitor: He's going to get his fair trial, he is going to be found guilty.   He should be executed for his crimes.   There is no reason in letting this animal live once he's been interrogated and every bit of information that he's able to give has been collected.

The absolute worse punishment we can dish out is life in prison without the chance at parole.


That's a good argument against execution, though (not to mention the lack of free appeal). He's 19. Keeping him alive for a nice, long life would be much worse.
 
2013-04-22 01:10:09 PM  

Tommy Moo: He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care.


In any case where this is true, I still don't see the point of skipping the trial; if he's so obviously guilty, what are the odds he won't get convicted?

It's a waste of money, but about 14000th down the list of wastes-of-money.

It'd be a media circus, but so what? We'll have media circuses about something, might as well be this.
 
2013-04-22 01:10:10 PM  

Deucednuisance: I take your point, but since it remains one of my favorite episodes, I am compelled to point out that "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street". They are not "from" Maple Street.


Watch it again.
 
2013-04-22 01:10:41 PM  

sweatybronson: There's a big difference between dropping a bomb, walking away, and then letting it explode to kill people, and actively shooting a human being in the face.

And I would imagine there'd be a difference in these kids minds between shooting at a police officer, and killing a civilian.

Obviously, the kids are demented... cops are people too (though lots of people don't act like they are, even people who aren't blowing stuff up), and if you're going to do something that kills innocent people, there should be no difference whether you're pointing the trigger at their faces or leaving a bomb somewhere (though obviously, emotionally, there is, and emotions aren't logical...  but we can understand them).

I'm not at all baffled by why the brothers didn't kill the dude, and I am a little weirded out that the article's all 'they made such a mistake by not killing that guy!  Silly terrorists.'


Seems like every swinging dong with a buttload of movie experience is an expert on Actual Rogue Going.
Folks, going full retard is not such a neato thingie, unlike in the movies.
 
2013-04-22 01:10:44 PM  

serial_crusher: The brothers would have needed his ATM pin number to access the cash.

I guess it's ok to call it a "pin number" if you don't capitalize it?


At least they didn't call it an ATM machine pin number.
 
2013-04-22 01:11:33 PM  

btraz70: Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.

Oh hell yes it is.  An eye for an eye I say.  World would be a better AND SAFER place...


Grammy HeartBurn used to say "An eye for an eye, and the whole world is blind."
 
2013-04-22 01:11:37 PM  

kindms: He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.

You FAIL at being an American. The only difference between our nation and every other in the world is the document by which it was founded. That document clearly lays out what accused criminals deserve when facing charges by the state.

People like you who easily cast that aside for convenience and / or revenge do more harm to this once great nation compared to all terrorists combined. Instead of steadfastly holding to our convictions as a nation in the face of adversity the majority cowers and demands its pound of flesh.


Exactly.  We said he needs to get a fair trial, not a particularly lengthy or complicated one.  Try not to be too outraged, but be prepared for this kid to plea out in exchange for information about who radicalized his brother, and other people who may be risks.  He won't get away entirely, but be prepared for some kind of very long sentence with no trial, to avoid the hassle of proving sanity and whether his brother brainwashed him.
 
2013-04-22 01:11:54 PM  

Tatsuma: scottydoesntknow: Ok, but they only killed the cop because they thought he had spotted them, they weren't just indiscriminately killing at that point.

Except that we can see that they walked up to him in his car, and shot him in cold blood. He had no idea who they were.

Otherwise, why did they let the carjacking victim in the story live?

Because 'he wasn't American'. They wanted to kill Americans and in their minds it was justified. The guy they carjacked was not, therefore THAT would have been murder.

Remember, Tamerlan quit boxing because he said 'A Muslim should not punch a man in the face'. Then he set off bombs in public places.


They tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious.
 
2013-04-22 01:12:43 PM  

Gaseous Anomaly: Tommy Moo: He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care.

In any case where this is true, I still don't see the point of skipping the trial; if he's so obviously guilty, what are the odds he won't get convicted?

It's a waste of money, but about 14000th down the list of wastes-of-money.

It'd be a media circus, but so what? We'll have media circuses about something, might as well be this.


There is political hay to be made. Just watch.
The dumb(literally) idiot? He is just the vehicle upon which the politicos shall ride.
 
2013-04-22 01:12:46 PM  

Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.


Doglover did not talk about holding him with no trial.

If those people want to talk about how they would cut his nutz off to exact their revenge, then let them.
You know why they are different?  They are only talk or thinking about doing an act like that.  They don't go out and do it.

That's called being civilized.
 
2013-04-22 01:12:51 PM  

Tatsuma: snowshovel: Except that wasn't part of the original plan. If they wanted to do that, they would've bombed the start of the race, then did a happy dance yelling "Hey look at me! I did it!" as police swarmed the area.

The cop confrontation thing only happened when they realized that their carefully crafted plan "to blow random people up" (which, really, is the easy part of the plan), didn't include "and get away with it" beyond trying to resume life as normal. They had absolutely no intent on confronting anybody. At least until it became obvious that they were toast.

I wrote the 'code' of what they planned to do earlier, basically more and more bombings until the FBI would be closing in, and then go out in a blaze of glory. They wanted to kill as many people as they could before they died.


And you know this how? Where are your sources?
 
2013-04-22 01:12:52 PM  

namegoeshere: Tatsuma: EdNortonsTwin: I'd imagine murdering someone at close range, up-close and personal, as in during a carjacking probably takes a considerable degree of courage.  It's not like pressing a button several yards from your victim(s).

That's exactly what they did to the cop. That's exactly what they did to the victims when they put down the bombs right next to them while looking them in the eyes.

The reason they didn't kill the driver is because he was not an American and they only wanted to kill Americans

Bullshiat. That makes no sense at all. The Boston Marathon is an international event. They had no reason to believe that the crowd in which they detonated the bombs would only be American. In fact, one of the dead was Chinese.


You'd figure if they wanted to only target white people they wouldn't do it at an event that has runners representing 97 countries.
 
2013-04-22 01:12:56 PM  

Tatsuma: It is completely bullshiat to use biology in any capacity to excuse the actions of the guy.

Saying that, 'being 19' his brain has not fully formed the way it should be and therefore- is bullshiat. We're not talking about a 10 year old, but a 19 year old.

I've seen plenty of people trying to use this excuse with him and I'm sorry, he was farking 19 year old, he wasn't a kid and he knew fully well what he was doing, and he wasn't some malleable puppy who was abused by his older brother who roped him into this


I just don;t think he was making an excuse - he went on to say, Again, this doesn't pardon the actions and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but it contributes to the decision making processes and helps with understanding of the "why" so that we can do whatever we can to try and prevent these things from happening in the future.

And I think he's right.
 
2013-04-22 01:12:57 PM  

JohnBigBootay: No worries. You have been in a position to think about all this stuff a lot more than I have. It's a very emotional issue


Yeah that's the thing for me, it is really emotional because the scenes we saw in Boston, those use to be daily scenes in Israel. Down to the smallest detail.

So when I see people trying to mitigate or defend that kind of evil, it makes me fly off the handle. It's not a good reason enough to lose my cool, I should be more careful and less emotional, and if I can't, step away from the keyboard until I can.

JohnBigBootay: my sincere belief is these things are best dealt with by professionals who can (try) to be analytical and preserve the rule of law while doing so. Let me assure everyone that I loathe bombers and believe fully that this young man should never see the light of day. While it's also saddening that a young person wasted HIS own life it is most certainly not his life I am primarily concerned with at the moment. But I do believe we can more effectively deal with and avoid future situations by completely understanding the mindset of the perpetrators. Just seems common sense to me. So I do want to know how he feels and how he got to where he got to. It's important.


Oh trust me, I understand this completely, and I agree 100%

The problem is that the people calling him a kid and saying he was roped into this, this is not what they are doing. They are apologizing for the guy, they are defending him, they are not trying to find the root causes of what could lead a guy with a bright future to do that, they just remove all responsibility and therefore guilt from him.

The fact that he was 19 and going to college and was bright is not something that makes him in any way different from most suicide bombers and terrorists. Studies show clearly that terrorists and their supporters usually come from higher educated backgrounds with affluent means. The more money you have, the better education you have, the second you throw fundamentalist Islam in the mix it creates a deadly poison where terrorism is absolutely justified.

This is the opposite where the poorest and least educated segments of the population will adamantly against using violence and terrorism.
 
2013-04-22 01:13:00 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Why are we a-okay with giving these douchebags the fame we don't even want to afford the theater killer?


This wasn't "fly-over country".
 
2013-04-22 01:13:10 PM  
Yeah, Tsarnaev #2 knew what he was doing. He made bad choices, and now he will have to pay. Sucks to be him.
 
2013-04-22 01:13:17 PM  

Theaetetus: Great Janitor: He's going to get his fair trial, he is going to be found guilty.   He should be executed for his crimes.   There is no reason in letting this animal live once he's been interrogated and every bit of information that he's able to give has been collected.

The absolute worse punishment we can dish out is life in prison without the chance at parole.

That's a good argument against execution, though (not to mention the lack of free appeal). He's 19. Keeping him alive for a nice, long life would be much worse.


People in this thread have mentioned mercy for this killer.  Mercy would be execution.
 
2013-04-22 01:14:09 PM  
 
2013-04-22 01:15:17 PM  
We give this guy the death penalty and the recruiters back home will tell the next young hothead who can't get laid here on Earth that the Tsarnaev brothers are in Allah's great houri house.  So no.  Put him in the darkest cell in the Federal prison system and throw away the key.  The houris can wait.
 
2013-04-22 01:16:15 PM  

scottydoesntknow: namegoeshere: Tatsuma: EdNortonsTwin: I'd imagine murdering someone at close range, up-close and personal, as in during a carjacking probably takes a considerable degree of courage.  It's not like pressing a button several yards from your victim(s).

That's exactly what they did to the cop. That's exactly what they did to the victims when they put down the bombs right next to them while looking them in the eyes.

The reason they didn't kill the driver is because he was not an American and they only wanted to kill Americans

Bullshiat. That makes no sense at all. The Boston Marathon is an international event. They had no reason to believe that the crowd in which they detonated the bombs would only be American. In fact, one of the dead was Chinese.

You'd figure if they wanted to only target white people they wouldn't do it at an event that has runners representing 97 countries.


A little hint, don't try to understand batchit crazy, it is contagious.
Don't try to integrate it into a sane framework, there is none.
 
2013-04-22 01:17:21 PM  

Tatsuma: I wrote the 'code' of what they planned to do earlier, basically more and more bombings until the FBI would be closing in, and then go out in a blaze of glory. They wanted to kill as many people as they could before they died.


To come back to the thread topic, then, either their plan to do so wasn't very good, or they deviated from it with no apparent reason.

Surely they could have done much more damage going underground and changing cities. And/or taking a bunch of hostages and exploding when their capture was inevitable.
 
2013-04-22 01:18:07 PM  
I just feel sad for everyone involved (including the suspects) and relieved it is over.  But then again, I'm not a seeker of vengeance.

Let due process objectively do what it needs to.

/feel kindof ashamed of my fellow man's bloodthirst
 
2013-04-22 01:19:04 PM  

bhcompy: Tatsuma: bhcompy: The 19 year old can use this excuse, also the "following his older brother/mentor" excuse.

No he can't. Read the post I wrote about this.

Sure, he can use the excuse.  It's an affirmative defense and it doesn't pardon his crimes, only lessens the blame from 50/50 to <50, just like any coercion.  Proving an affirmative defense can be a difficult thing, and it's just an excuse until he proves it.

And, scientifically, 19 year old brains are still developing and hormones of that age interfere with thought processes(a big reason why very young adult males make ideal soldiers).  Again, this doesn't pardon the actions and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but it contributes to the decision making processes and helps with understanding of the "why" so that we can do whatever we can to try and prevent these things from happening in the future.


When talking about brain development, there is a MASSIVE difference between things like maturity of the temporal lobe vs synaptic pruning, and synaptic pruning. That's a really *bad* premise to absolve responsibility to any degree at all.
 
2013-04-22 01:20:10 PM  

sodomizer: Some say it was because he "wasn't an American":

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/22/report-bombers-spared-carjacki ng -victim-because-he-wasnt-an-american/


Neither was the Chinese girl they killed. They didn't give a shiat who in that crowd they blew up. It's not like they set the bombs off in the Americans Only section of the international sporting event.
 
2013-04-22 01:20:40 PM  

Gaseous Anomaly: To come back to the thread topic, then, either their plan to do so wasn't very good, or they deviated from it with no apparent reason.

Surely they could have done much more damage going underground and changing cities. And/or taking a bunch of hostages and exploding when their capture was inevitable.


Well when they saw that their pictures were all over the news, the probably panicked.

It's one thing to think 'When the farking po-po comes, we'll farking go out and kill them yo!' and realizing that the full brunt of every single Law Enforcement agency in the country is closing in .
 
2013-04-22 01:21:02 PM  

StaleCoffee: That's a really *bad* premise to absolve responsibility to any degree at all.


Which I'm pretty sure he did not do.
 
2013-04-22 01:23:07 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Which I'm pretty sure he did not do.


It sure came out looking that way to me and others though
 
2013-04-22 01:23:19 PM  

Tatsuma: EdNortonsTwin: I'd imagine murdering someone at close range, up-close and personal, as in during a carjacking probably takes a considerable degree of courage.  It's not like pressing a button several yards from your victim(s).

That's exactly what they did to the cop. That's exactly what they did to the victims when they put down the bombs right next to them while looking them in the eyes.

The reason they didn't kill the driver is because he was not an American and they only wanted to kill Americans


Except triggering an IED and shooting at police while yards away are notexactly personal like shooting a car jacking victim would be.

I say these punks are miserable cowards.

And enough of this "they're brown" so people are wanting to treat them differently than if they were white.  These shiat stains are caucasians.
 
2013-04-22 01:23:26 PM  
YOU DIDN'T KILL THE HOSTAGE?  WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?

What sort of psycho even asks this question?
 
2013-04-22 01:25:24 PM  
This item has been updated to reflect new reports about the carjacking victim's possible escape. An incorrect reference to Timothy McVeigh renting a Ryder truck under his real name has been deleted.

I don't know if I should mock Time for being wrong, or praise them for owning up to the mistake and fixing it.
 
2013-04-22 01:26:49 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


I find the bloodlust totally understandable - and subsiding.

Also, your calling a 26 year old man a 'kid' is what i find...distasteful. 

Why are you trying to make them sympathetic?  Are they themselves victims?  Sounds like you believe that.  And while I can understand having pity for the 19 year old, having been a stupid 19 year old myself, i don't sympathize with them at all.

You sound so open minded that your brain fell out.
 
2013-04-22 01:26:57 PM  

JohnBigBootay: StaleCoffee: That's a really *bad* premise to absolve responsibility to any degree at all.

Which I'm pretty sure he did not do.


Then what was the point of trotting it out at all? He says it doesn't pardon the actions but helps to understand "why" but understanding the "why" there because of the brain failing to reach full maturity implies a lack of reasoning ability somehow. Otherwise understanding the "why" would follow the same causal pattern of anyone else, which makes the whole "brain not fully developed at 19" utterly irrelevant.
 
2013-04-22 01:27:22 PM  

Tatsuma: It sure came out looking that way to me and others though


Because everyone is so angry they did read the next sentence in which he explicitly said in plain english, "Again, this doesn't pardon the actions and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. "

The fault lies with the reader there, not the writer, who explained himself clearly.
 
2013-04-22 01:27:30 PM  

EdNortonsTwin: Except triggering an IED and shooting at police while yards away are notexactly personal like shooting a car jacking victim would be.


It is when you literally drop the IED next to an 8 year old boy while looking at him and smiling, then stick around to see people writhe in pain from having lost their limbs.
 
2013-04-22 01:29:01 PM  

JohnBigBootay: The fault lies with the reader there, not the writer, who explained himself clearly.


When you write six lines that sound like apology, then six words that say this is not in fact an apology, most people will kind of overlook the six words.

Why even write that shiat in the first place if it's not to somewhat excuse him? That's why we thought it was apologia.
 
2013-04-22 01:29:10 PM  

StaleCoffee: Then what was the point of trotting it out at all? He says it doesn't pardon the actions but helps to understand "why" but understanding the "why" there because of the brain failing to reach full maturity implies a lack of reasoning ability somehow. Otherwise understanding the "why" would follow the same causal pattern of anyone else, which makes the whole "brain not fully developed at 19" utterly irrelevant.


Maybe he's just making the point that younger people are mores susceptible to suggestion. I have no idea.
 
2013-04-22 01:31:08 PM  

Tatsuma: He who is merciful to the cruel will one day be cruel to those who deserve mercy.


Well, that bit of nonsense a is splendid example of the bullshiate that proves the old saying that just because a thing is said cleverly it is not necessarily valid.

Seriously, would you care to elucidate how the conclusion follows from the premise?

(Hint: it doesn't.)
 
2013-04-22 01:31:12 PM  

brap: YOU DIDN'T KILL THE HOSTAGE?  WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?

What sort of psycho even asks this question?


Obviously, Time is advocating that anyone committing this type of attack in the future murder every possible witness whenever possible.
 
2013-04-22 01:32:45 PM  

Tatsuma: hy even write that shiat in the first place if it's not to somewhat excuse him? That's why we thought it was apologia.


Like he said, maybe he just wants to understand the guy. Not sure why any of this matters all that much. I bet you two cents he thinks he's guilty and if he was on the jury he'd vote to convict. Who care what questions he has along the way - he's hardly advocating trying him as a minor or suggesting rehabilitation and release. He thinks the guy is guilty and he wonders how the fark and why he got to the place where he thought this would be a good idea and I think that's a fine question to ask.
 
2013-04-22 01:32:55 PM  
Two things are really bothering me about this case:

1) Calling the youngest brother a "kid" who must have been corrupted and manipulated by his older brother. This might be true, it might also be bullshiat. Here in Canada, police and prosecutors assumed Karla Homolka was manipulated by her husband Paul Bernardo to help him kidnap, rape, and murder three young women, one of them her own sister. Turns out she was just as sick and twisted as he was. Jokes on them. She ended up plea bargaining, getting a light sentence, and is now free.

2) Assuming that everything we've been told by investigators is the gospel vetted truth. We haven't seen the video evidence of the bag being planted, yet everyone keeps saying "he planted the bomb right by a child", etc. They provide a narrative, the media repeats it, and the public seems to blindly accept it. We have to stop doing this and wait for the evidence to be presented.
 
2013-04-22 01:33:33 PM  

Firethorn: Nana's Vibrator: I'd be certain there are enough photgraphs, videos, and witnesses to every event  that, even without a confession, a fair trial should be simple and therefore should not require any shortcuts or rule bending.

/how do you tell a guy who can't speak that he has the right to remain silent?  It almost sounds like a mean joke.

Given my experience, the photographs and videos are more damning than an outright confession.  Far too many people have been pressured into making a fake one.

For the 'right to remain silent', it's a 'right not to communicate', whether that's by speech, written statement, sign language, or even tapping.

Personally, I wanted both of them to be caught alive, for the evidence value alone - I want the contacts that encouraged the older brother to embark on this course arrested and prosecuted as well.  Or shot by the Russians...


Its all a Russian setup, Pooty already poisoned those that needed it.
 
2013-04-22 01:35:54 PM  

Deucednuisance: Well, that bit of nonsense a is splendid example of the bullshiate that proves the old saying that just because a thing is said cleverly it is not necessarily valid.

Seriously, would you care to elucidate how the conclusion follows from the premise?


It comes from the Talmud, and here's a story to illustrate it:

A farmer once came upon a baby wolf who was dying of thirst. Clearly abandoned by its mother, he decided to bring it home and nurse it back to health. His neighbor said 'You crazy! This be a wolf! He gon' kill all your sheeps!' to which the merciful farmer said 'No, tis but a baby! Shut your whore mouth' and brought it back into his pen. He nursed it up to health. A few years later, the wolf picked up an AK and shot all the sheeps'.

Seriously, there are so many situations where having mercy on people who are cruel would lead as a consequence to cruelty on those who deserve mercy. That doesn't mean that you're the one who will be doing it yourself.
 
2013-04-22 01:36:01 PM  
while I wholeheartedly agree with the point you are TRYING to make regarding the impropriety of the revenge fantasy advocacy that seems to be rearing it's head from SOME otherwise relatively respectable sources, I find your insistence on painting these prolific and accomplished killers, who's act of cold-blooded, wanton murderer of innocent human beings to be wildly misguided in it's own right.

Was the younger tsarnaev under the undue influence of his elder, and perhaps more disaffected brother? possibly. Were they confused and alone? It certainly seems that way. but these are two confused and angry kids that, despite the resources available to them, made the choice to express this anger by destroying the lives of many individuals and their families and loved ones. To refute the label of blood thirsty killers is, in this case, to confuse the very meaning of the language. Perhaps they were confused and angry blood thirsty killers. Perhaps they lacked the resources or the wherewithal to identify any better outlets for their confusion and anger. I feel for such confused humans, and wish, with all my heart that they'd stumbled across a single opportunity to derail their plans.. and that we had, as a society, a support mechanism, or perhaps a series of support mechanisms that would enable us to do a better job of identifying such issues before they manifest in murderous rage.. let us work towards this.

but that does not change the fact that these were two confused and angry young men who apparently could find no other outlet for their rage than the bloody and terrible destruction of the lives of as many innocents as they could.. this is the very definition of blood thirst.

Yes, public, and more worryingly, governmental bloodlust is just plain wrong. Wrong headed, morally wrong.. and likely a contributor to the greater problems that led us here. We should console ourselves and each other until that bloodlust becomes compassion and forgiveness, if not for the tsarnaevs, then for ourselves, and for the other angry, disaffected youth who have a hard time understanding our dysfunctional society and our unjust world, so that they may find better outlet then these brothers did.

Part of that process requires coming to terms with our own feelings.. and in many cases this may start with rage at the nearly unforgivable, bloodthirsty acts of wanton murder committed by these two angry, confused young men.

Voiceofreason01: Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


Blood thirsty? Maybe not. But they are killers. They killed people. So I think the term applies here. Blood thirsty may even be appropriate here as well, as there is evidence that they were planning out several more attacks. Sounds a bit 'blood thirsty' to me.

The point I was getting at is that even if they were evil bloodthirsty killers they would still deserve a just and fair trial as well as a basic level of respect as human beings while the one kid is being held. I find the level of hate and bloodlust from many of you in these threads to be wholly inappropriate and more than a little offensive. Be better than that.

 
2013-04-22 01:39:05 PM  

JohnBigBootay: StaleCoffee: Then what was the point of trotting it out at all? He says it doesn't pardon the actions but helps to understand "why" but understanding the "why" there because of the brain failing to reach full maturity implies a lack of reasoning ability somehow. Otherwise understanding the "why" would follow the same causal pattern of anyone else, which makes the whole "brain not fully developed at 19" utterly irrelevant.

Maybe he's just making the point that younger people are mores susceptible to suggestion. I have no idea.


So you're guessing at his point and have no real idea, but I'm the one who is at fault because rather than inject my own assumptions into a confusing jumble of irrelevant data I called it out in question? Okay then.

Even if that is the point, still, so what? Does that mean because he's young and stupid we should view what he did in a different perspective?

How does that still somehow not imply his age shouldn't be taken into consideration when it comes to responsibility for his actions?
 
2013-04-22 01:40:14 PM  

Tatsuma: Deucednuisance: Well, that bit of nonsense a is splendid example of the bullshiate that proves the old saying that just because a thing is said cleverly it is not necessarily valid.

Seriously, would you care to elucidate how the conclusion follows from the premise?

It comes from the Talmud, and here's a story to illustrate it:

A farmer once came upon a baby wolf who was dying of thirst. Clearly abandoned by its mother, he decided to bring it home and nurse it back to health. His neighbor said 'You crazy! This be a wolf! He gon' kill all your sheeps!' to which the merciful farmer said 'No, tis but a baby! Shut your whore mouth' and brought it back into his pen. He nursed it up to health. A few years later, the wolf picked up an AK and shot all the sheeps'.

Seriously, there are so many situations where having mercy on people who are cruel would lead as a consequence to cruelty on those who deserve mercy. That doesn't mean that you're the one who will be doing it yourself.


Incidentally, the above story also condones killing babies since they may turn out to be Hitler.
 
2013-04-22 01:40:43 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences


The problem is they way you seem to see this. Something terrible didn't just "happen". This isn't a "mistakes were made" event. These two grown adults decided, planned, committed and executed a deliberate series of murders of complete strangers. It wasn't an accident, it wasn't a misunderstanding, they weren't confused about what the results of their actions would be.

They fully INTENDED to murder as many people as possible, and went to significantg lengths to do so.

You seem to want to treat this as if a teenager accidentaly hit the wrong pedel and ran over some people.
 
2013-04-22 01:42:16 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Watch it again.


For the hundredth time?

My point is that there are no monsters.

Frightened foolish people, yes, but no monsters.  Not even the aliens at the end.

And if the idea is "we are all potential monsters" then the concept "Monster" loses all meaning.

They are "due" on Maple Street, in the same way that Vladimir and Estragon "wait" for Godot.
 
2013-04-22 01:43:59 PM  

StaleCoffee: JohnBigBootay: StaleCoffee: Then what was the point of trotting it out at all? He says it doesn't pardon the actions but helps to understand "why" but understanding the "why" there because of the brain failing to reach full maturity implies a lack of reasoning ability somehow. Otherwise understanding the "why" would follow the same causal pattern of anyone else, which makes the whole "brain not fully developed at 19" utterly irrelevant.

Maybe he's just making the point that younger people are mores susceptible to suggestion. I have no idea.

So you're guessing at his point and have no real idea, but I'm the one who is at fault because rather than inject my own assumptions into a confusing jumble of irrelevant data I called it out in question? Okay then.

Even if that is the point, still, so what? Does that mean because he's young and stupid we should view what he did in a different perspective?

How does that still somehow not imply his age shouldn't be taken into consideration when it comes to responsibility for his actions?


Because another valid explanation is not "let's treat them lightly" but "let's figure out the various factors that led to this, such that we can profile and find other potential bombers ahead of time."
Ignoring the kid's age out of some righteous sense of anger just impairs your own ability to prevent this type of thing.
 
2013-04-22 01:44:07 PM  

Tatsuma: EdNortonsTwin: Except triggering an IED and shooting at police while yards away are notexactly personal like shooting a car jacking victim would be.

It is when you literally drop the IED next to an 8 year old boy while looking at him and smiling, then stick around to see people writhe in pain from having lost their limbs.



Except it's not the same level of "personal" as shooting a car jacking victim would be..  The point I am making is that they are cowards.  What's your point, Tats?
 
2013-04-22 01:44:07 PM  

Big John's Breakfast Log: 1) Calling the youngest brother a "kid" who must have been corrupted and manipulated by his older brother. This might be true, it might also be bullshiat.


Right. We just don't know yet. Maybe the old guy was the passion and the kid was the brains and technical know how who told him to stfu with the screaming at the wind and DO something already. We'll find out. He was still a "kid" in that people my age refer to people his age and older "kids" all the farking time. It has no legal bearing on anything and he is absolutely responsible for his actions whether or not his older brother influenced or browbeat him into it. I'm nearly 50 - if you can't legally buy a beer yet, and hell, for several years after even, I may at times refer to you as a kid even if only in my own mind. Doesn't change a damn thing but there's nothing inherently wrong with the nomenclature and does not in and of itself grant any special immunity from charges. Guilty, murderous, evil...kid.
 
2013-04-22 01:44:54 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Tatsuma: scottydoesntknow: It was random. They were robbing a convenience store for money,

No they weren't. They went to the convenience store and soon afterwards someone unrelated robbed it. It wasn't them.

Ok, but they only killed the cop because they thought he had spotted them, they weren't just indiscriminately killing at that point.

Otherwise, why did they let the carjacking victim in the story live?


So he could mail the videotapes back to Killian from a different location.
 
2013-04-22 01:44:58 PM  

Theaetetus: Tatsuma: Deucednuisance: Well, that bit of nonsense a is splendid example of the bullshiate that proves the old saying that just because a thing is said cleverly it is not necessarily valid.

Seriously, would you care to elucidate how the conclusion follows from the premise?

It comes from the Talmud, and here's a story to illustrate it:

A farmer once came upon a baby wolf who was dying of thirst. Clearly abandoned by its mother, he decided to bring it home and nurse it back to health. His neighbor said 'You crazy! This be a wolf! He gon' kill all your sheeps!' to which the merciful farmer said 'No, tis but a baby! Shut your whore mouth' and brought it back into his pen. He nursed it up to health. A few years later, the wolf picked up an AK and shot all the sheeps'.

Seriously, there are so many situations where having mercy on people who are cruel would lead as a consequence to cruelty on those who deserve mercy. That doesn't mean that you're the one who will be doing it yourself.

Incidentally, the above story also condones killing babies since they may turn out to be Hitler.


While I want to rant about religion, I have to disagree. We know a wolf pup will grow to be a wolf and shoot sheepies with machine guns, or automatic weapons or whatever the media is raving about right now. We don't know which babies will grow up to be fascist dictators. It's more along the lines of if Hitler was hanging off the edge of a cliff by his fingers, you pull him up and hug him instead of stomping his nazi farking fingers. So after you pull Hitler from the cliff edge and give him a hug, he shoves a gas bomb in your crotch and shoves you over the side of the cliff, so your dick is coated in mustard gas for the entire fall. It's a pretty good lesson IMO. Even if it is religious.
 
2013-04-22 01:45:33 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


There's really nothing else to say except that you're a farking moron and this is the dumbest statement ever posted on the internet.
 
2013-04-22 01:46:12 PM  

Theaetetus: StaleCoffee: JohnBigBootay: StaleCoffee: Then what was the point of trotting it out at all? He says it doesn't pardon the actions but helps to understand "why" but understanding the "why" there because of the brain failing to reach full maturity implies a lack of reasoning ability somehow. Otherwise understanding the "why" would follow the same causal pattern of anyone else, which makes the whole "brain not fully developed at 19" utterly irrelevant.

Maybe he's just making the point that younger people are mores susceptible to suggestion. I have no idea.

So you're guessing at his point and have no real idea, but I'm the one who is at fault because rather than inject my own assumptions into a confusing jumble of irrelevant data I called it out in question? Okay then.

Even if that is the point, still, so what? Does that mean because he's young and stupid we should view what he did in a different perspective?

How does that still somehow not imply his age shouldn't be taken into consideration when it comes to responsibility for his actions?

Because another valid explanation is not "let's treat them lightly" but "let's figure out the various factors that led to this, such that we can profile and find other potential bombers ahead of time."
Ignoring the kid's age out of some righteous sense of anger just impairs your own ability to prevent this type of thing.


Yeah, okay. Lets go profile teenage muslims, that will help.
 
2013-04-22 01:46:50 PM  
He was just charged by the white house so get your freedom panties out of your ass.
 
2013-04-22 01:49:07 PM  

EdNortonsTwin: Except it's not the same level of "personal" as shooting a car jacking victim would be.. The point I am making is that they are cowards. What's your point, Tats?


They walked up to a cop and shot him in cold blood

How hard is it to understand? They said they were not going to kill the hostage because he wasn't American. That's farking it, stop looking for conspiracies everywhere people, damn.
 
2013-04-22 01:51:19 PM  

StaleCoffee: Theaetetus: Tatsuma: Deucednuisance: Well, that bit of nonsense a is splendid example of the bullshiate that proves the old saying that just because a thing is said cleverly it is not necessarily valid.

Seriously, would you care to elucidate how the conclusion follows from the premise?

It comes from the Talmud, and here's a story to illustrate it:

A farmer once came upon a baby wolf who was dying of thirst. Clearly abandoned by its mother, he decided to bring it home and nurse it back to health. His neighbor said 'You crazy! This be a wolf! He gon' kill all your sheeps!' to which the merciful farmer said 'No, tis but a baby! Shut your whore mouth' and brought it back into his pen. He nursed it up to health. A few years later, the wolf picked up an AK and shot all the sheeps'.

Seriously, there are so many situations where having mercy on people who are cruel would lead as a consequence to cruelty on those who deserve mercy. That doesn't mean that you're the one who will be doing it yourself.

Incidentally, the above story also condones killing babies since they may turn out to be Hitler.

While I want to rant about religion, I have to disagree. We know a wolf pup will grow to be a wolf and shoot sheepies with machine guns, or automatic weapons or whatever the media is raving about right now.


Ah, but what about Androcles and the lion? We can't know that the proverbial lion or wolf pup is evil until it does an evil act, just like the baby Hitler. In other words, the Talmudic saying only makes sense if evil is predestined and apparent... by way of one's parents.

It's more along the lines of if Hitler was hanging off the edge of a cliff by his fingers, you pull him up and hug him instead of stomping his nazi farking fingers.

But the story has a wolf  pup. If the story were about the farmer finding a full grown wolf, with fresh sheep blood on his pelt, caught in a trap and freeing it, you'd be right. But that's not the story. Instead, it's saying that if your parents are evil, then you're predestined to do evil, so we should stamp out the bloodline of anyone who does evil, including babies.
 
2013-04-22 01:51:33 PM  

The Bruce Dickinson: You are all equally pathetic...Jews, Muslims and of course the equally blood thirsty Christians.

All of you personify what is wrong with the Human race.

What else would one expect from simple minds...religion


I'm only saying this once.

If you must come here to post this by itself, not an afterthought or a continuing thought from a relevant post, then you must not be as smart as you think you are.

If you truly believe that all people on these boards and on this planet are so simple that they would never understand their folly, then why do you waste words on those you know can never understand?  It's like being angry at a dog because he doesn't understand particle physics.

Seems to me your journey continues...lose the hate, the anger; focus on helping them learn instead of condemning them to ignorance.
 
2013-04-22 01:52:02 PM  

Tatsuma: scottydoesntknow: All I'm finding is that they had planned to carry out more attacks, which would go in line with them returning to everyday activities so as not to look suspicious. You can't really conduct more planned attacks when there's a nationwide manhunt and everyone knows exactly what you look like.

They had no idea that there were so many cameras watching them and it all fell to shiat the second it went national.

Here's how they basically wanted it to come down, all the way in terms of code.

[1] if bombing goes well then
verify if police unto us
if positive goto 4 if negative goto 2
[2] return to normal life then
plan a new bombing then goto 1
[3] if cover is blown
go out in a blaze of glory goto 4
[4] VIRGINS
bone them


I just thought I'd point out that line [3] is dead code.  The if statement on line [2] either loops back to [1] or jumps to [4].  There is no logical sequence that'll take you to line [3].

/ really that pedantic
// go to statements?  You ought to be ashamed
///
 
2013-04-22 01:52:28 PM  

StaleCoffee: While I want to rant about religion, I have to disagree. We know a wolf pup will grow to be a wolf and shoot sheepies with machine guns, or automatic weapons or whatever the media is raving about right now. We don't know which babies will grow up to be fascist dictators. It's more along the lines of if Hitler was hanging off the edge of a cliff by his fingers, you pull him up and hug him instead of stomping his nazi farking fingers. So after you pull Hitler from the cliff edge and give him a hug, he shoves a gas bomb in your crotch and shoves you over the side of the cliff, so your dick is coated in mustard gas for the entire fall. It's a pretty good lesson IMO. Even if it is religious.


Yup.

I mean an example of giving mercy to those who don't deserve it and ending up being cruel to those who deserve mercy: The Libyan bomber who was released because he had 'a couple of weeks to live' and ended up living three more years in freedom and in luxury while the victims suffered from seeing him alive and free while he murdered more than 200 people.
 
2013-04-22 01:52:49 PM  

Tatsuma: That doesn't mean that you're the one who will be doing it yourself.


Then why did you say that it did?

He who is merciful to the cruel will one day be cruel to those who deserve mercy.

"He who is... will... be..."

Still nonsense, and I don't see how a made-up story in a made-up book has anything to do with the validity of the argument, either way you frame it.

Not to mention that extending mercy to those deserving it doesn't really tax one's mercy-giving capacity, does it?  The only mercy that actually IS mercy is that which is extended to the undeserving.  That's kind of what makes "mercy" merciful, yanno?
 
2013-04-22 01:52:51 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-22 01:52:59 PM  
ts4.mm.bing.net

The exception is the norm.
 
2013-04-22 01:53:40 PM  

StaleCoffee: How does that still somehow not imply his age shouldn't be taken into consideration when it comes to responsibility for his actions?


You can draw from it whatever you'd like. Meanwhile each and every person I recall saying anything remotely similar (including myself) has stated that he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. In fact, the weakest punishment I have seen ANYONE mention specifically in any thread on the topic is life in prison. I see a lot of bloviating about 'apologists' but I've yet to see a single actual apologist or advocate for the guy (kid). everyone thinks he's guilty. Everyone thinks he should serve life in prison (at least). But it's not very interesting to fight with people who actually agree with you on the most important matters of the case so we squabble about nothing.
 
2013-04-22 01:53:42 PM  

steve_wmn: I just thought I'd point out that line [3] is dead code. The if statement on line [2] either loops back to [1] or jumps to [4]. There is no logical sequence that'll take you to line [3].

/ really that pedantic
// go to statements? You ought to be ashamed
///


I didn't code when I was in highschool, I played in a band, smoked drugs and got off with girls.

Nerd.
 
2013-04-22 01:54:29 PM  

StaleCoffee: Theaetetus: StaleCoffee: JohnBigBootay: StaleCoffee: Then what was the point of trotting it out at all? He says it doesn't pardon the actions but helps to understand "why" but understanding the "why" there because of the brain failing to reach full maturity implies a lack of reasoning ability somehow. Otherwise understanding the "why" would follow the same causal pattern of anyone else, which makes the whole "brain not fully developed at 19" utterly irrelevant.

Maybe he's just making the point that younger people are mores susceptible to suggestion. I have no idea.

So you're guessing at his point and have no real idea, but I'm the one who is at fault because rather than inject my own assumptions into a confusing jumble of irrelevant data I called it out in question? Okay then.

Even if that is the point, still, so what? Does that mean because he's young and stupid we should view what he did in a different perspective?

How does that still somehow not imply his age shouldn't be taken into consideration when it comes to responsibility for his actions?

Because another valid explanation is not "let's treat them lightly" but "let's figure out the various factors that led to this, such that we can profile and find other potential bombers ahead of time."
Ignoring the kid's age out of some righteous sense of anger just impairs your own ability to prevent this type of thing.

Yeah, okay. Lets go profile teenage muslims, that will help.


Yes, and let's work on getting them better educations, branching out their worldview beyond religious fundamentalism, removing things that isolate them or lead them to join extremist groups, and countering people who try to whip them into murderous rages.

Or we could do it your way and ignore them until they kill people, 'cause that'll help.
 
2013-04-22 01:55:41 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


something something bombs and gun arsenals are pre-meditated something something
 
2013-04-22 01:55:52 PM  

Deucednuisance: Still nonsense, and I don't see how a made-up story in a made-up book has anything to do with the validity of the argument, either way you frame it.


It's a very real book, I own multiple tractates from it, thank you.

Deucednuisance: Not to mention that extending mercy to those deserving it doesn't really tax one's mercy-giving capacity, does it? The only mercy that actually IS mercy is that which is extended to the undeserving. That's kind of what makes "mercy" merciful, yanno?


No, there are people who did bad things but deserve mercy, and others who don't.

Do you think Hitler deserved mercy? What about Saddam? Gaddafi? Ted Bundy?
 
2013-04-22 01:57:18 PM  

Deucednuisance: My point is that there are no monsters.


There absolutely are. But not in the sense that. like frankenstein's monster and the Minotaur, they are poor tortured sould abandoned and mistrusted by society and the world, doomed to lash out in frustrated alienated rage.

No, the real monsters aren't misunderstood by the world, they misunderstand the world themselves*. Their worldview has become so distorted and twisted, that they can no longer relate to the world as it is. And when they act, they act in a way that may make sense to them, but is monstrous exactly becasue it is so at odds with humanity. They become monsters by removing themselves from the rest of humanity.
/* with thanks to Eddie Campbell

These two men ARE monsters. Their worldview became so broken and distorted that they saw the intentional murder of complete strangers (many running to raise money for charity) as a GOOD thing, worthy of doing. And that is what is monstrous, and that is why these men are monsters.

It is not only foolish, but dangerous to assert that men cannot become monsters, or that there is no such things as "evil". It is a curious and wrongheaded perspective that would absolve even the most heanious motivations and actions as being some sort of fatherless "happening" for which no one is really to blame, no one chose, and no one is really accountable. Or even worse that somehow everyone is.

No. Men become monsters. Men commit evil. And the root and branch of all evil springs directly from the heart of these men. No one is accidentlay evil - it is a choice.

All that being said, this man deserves a fair trial, and the best defense possible. Because, monstrous though he may have become, he is nonetheless a human being and a citizen, and while he may have abandoned his humanity, we have not abandonded him. We are not monsters.
 
2013-04-22 01:58:45 PM  

Tatsuma: Deucednuisance: Still nonsense, and I don't see how a made-up story in a made-up book has anything to do with the validity of the argument, either way you frame it.

It's a very real book, I own multiple tractates from it, thank you.

Deucednuisance: Not to mention that extending mercy to those deserving it doesn't really tax one's mercy-giving capacity, does it? The only mercy that actually IS mercy is that which is extended to the undeserving. That's kind of what makes "mercy" merciful, yanno?

No, there are people who did bad things but deserve mercy, and others who don't.

Do you think Hitler deserved mercy? What about Saddam? Gaddafi? Ted Bundy?


One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same...
Hitler;
Saddam;
Gaddafi;
Bundy; and
baby pup dying of thirst.
 
2013-04-22 01:59:10 PM  
Because to look a person in the eye and execute him takes a certain amount of courage, a bombing doesnt
 
2013-04-22 01:59:13 PM  
You can kill people and do plenty of evil things and not be a sociopath. They probably thought they were going to get away with it which is the only reason I can think of to explain why they stayed in the area. Once their pictures were released by the FBI and everyone in America was on the lookout for them they went into "oh shiat" mode which brought them down. If they had fled the country or at least the damn state they would probably still be on the run now.

Also, people who act like they're so above everyone because we want people who do terrible things to suffer can EABOD. You are incredibly douchey and nobody likes you
 
2013-04-22 02:01:40 PM  

bikkurikun: Because to look a person in the eye and execute him takes a certain amount of courage, a bombing doesnt


Except that they literally did that minutes after they let him go

But thank you for being the 50th person to make that point and be very wrong.
 
2013-04-22 02:01:40 PM  

Tatsuma: EdNortonsTwin: Except it's not the same level of "personal" as shooting a car jacking victim would be.. The point I am making is that they are cowards. What's your point, Tats?

They walked up to a cop and shot him in cold blood

How hard is it to understand? They said they were not going to kill the hostage because he wasn't American. That's farking it, stop looking for conspiracies everywhere people, damn.

Conspiracy as in tin-hat?  Where did I say there was a conspiracy?  The article asks why they didnt kill the taxi driver.  Taxi driver said it was because he wasn't American (like they were?).  I state it's because riding in a car with someone and talking to them, then letting them out of the car and shooting them is a personal killing - it's up close and personal.  Planting bombs and waylaying cops is not so personal.  My arguement is that they are cowards, the same as those pukes that blow up a bus in your country.

Anyway, I'd like to know more accurately how the MIT officer was killed.  From what I read they snuck up on him and shot him while he was in his car.  That also seems pretty cowardly to me.

 
2013-04-22 02:01:41 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Uncle Pooky:
maybe you're a confused kid. Making explosive devices designed to cause a lot of damage and placing them in a heavily populated area = bloodthirsty. shooting and throwing grenades at cops = bloodthirsty. trying to run over cops = bloodthirsty. shooting a security guard in the head = bloodthirsty killer.

you sounds scared. Better kill that scary brown kid quick. Hell why don't you go ahead and skip the trial....it's just a waste of time anyway.


I know I'm joining this party late but it's just bizarre watching you double down on unsupportable positions because you've backed yourself into a corner.  I think you were initially trying to espouse the idea that those calling for brutal retribution rather than justice are misguided.  But in doing so you made the mistake of indicating these two individuals might not be bloodthirsty killers.  This is not a supportable statement.  An irrefutable amount of evidence from a broad variety of sources indicates these two are the very definition of bloodthirsty killers.  Throwing around vague accusations of racism doesn't change that and makes you look foolish.
 
2013-04-22 02:01:42 PM  

Voiceofreason01: you sounds scared. Better kill that scary brown kid quick.


Dude, dude dude...these pricks were white as hell.  They come from the region where the term 'caucasian' comes from, you can argue they are foreign or something, but brown? 

You are either trollin' hard or really just so open minded that we could use your skull as a gotdamn punch bowl.
 
2013-04-22 02:03:27 PM  

asmodeus224: Voiceofreason01: you sounds scared. Better kill that scary brown kid quick.

Dude, dude dude...these pricks were white as hell.  They come from the region where the term 'caucasian' comes from, you can argue they are foreign or something, but brown? 

You are either trollin' hard or really just so open minded that we could use your skull as a gotdamn punch bowl.


punch bowl
 
2013-04-22 02:09:23 PM  

Theaetetus: Ah, but what about Androcles and the lion? We can't know that the proverbial lion or wolf pup is evil until it does an evil act, just like the baby Hitler. In other words, the Talmudic saying only makes sense if evil is predestined and apparent... by way of one's parents.


Only, the thing is, science will go to the mat on the whole "raising a feral wolf pup will get you a feral wolf that wants to kill you" thing too. So you're over-complicating this for the sake of idealism.

Theaetetus: But the story has a wolf pup. If the story were about the farmer finding a full grown wolf, with fresh sheep blood on his pelt, caught in a trap and freeing it, you'd be right. But that's not the story. Instead, it's saying that if your parents are evil, then you're predestined to do evil, so we should stamp out the bloodline of anyone who does evil, including babies.


Again, the operative word here is wolf. Not pup. It's already defined its nature, as would an adult Hitler. The nature of a feral animal is that it is feral. That's pretty solidly established scientifically. It's not saying a human baby is destined for anything, it's talking about showing mercy to something that is known to be evil. It's a pretty straightforward anecdote, not Planescape: Torment.

Theaetetus: Yes, and let's work on getting them better educations, branching out their worldview beyond religious fundamentalism, removing things that isolate them or lead them to join extremist groups, and countering people who try to whip them into murderous rages.

Or we could do it your way and ignore them until they kill people, 'cause that'll help.


Because we do such a wonderful job of that with our homegrown fundies I have complete and total faith that we can educate the foreign crazies!

Look, you're just trying to find shiat to argue about. I don't want to ignore that shiat, but I don't want to chase chimeras either.
 
2013-04-22 02:09:26 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: These two men ARE monsters. Their worldview became so broken and distorted that they saw the intentional murder of complete strangers (many running to raise money for charity) as a GOOD thing, worthy of doing. And that is what is monstrous, and that is why these men are monsters.

It is not only foolish, but dangerous to assert that men cannot become monsters, or that there is no such things as "evil". It is a curious and wrongheaded perspective that would absolve even the most heanious motivations and actions as being some sort of fatherless "happening" for which no one is really to blame, no one chose, and no one is really accountable. Or even worse that somehow everyone is.


I believe you're misunderstanding his statement, or are using a different definition of "monsters" (note his statement about how if we are all potential monsters, then the term loses any meaning). His statement was meant to say that there are no* pure evil killers whose motivations are so alien that we cannot comprehend them - no* monsters who exist only to kill, even within their own understanding.
The totally insane aside**, most killers still have reasons and motivations that they believe are rational: as you admit, they have a broken and distorted worldview such that they saw the intentional murder of strangers as a good thing, worthy of doing. That's not a monster, that's a deranged person. A monster would either see it as a bad thing, unworthy of doing and do it anyway, or (more likely), not understand any difference between worthy or unworthy.

With this in mind, the statement doesn't absolve anyone of blame or accountability. Society disagrees with their rationale or that this was a worthy action, and will punish them accordingly. But that doesn't mean they are automatically irrational bloodthirsty monsters. That's just a fairy tale to help people sleep better by ignoring the fact that it's men who do evil, not monsters.

*hyperbole aside, I'm sure it's possible to find an example of someone who is totally and completely insane, but this is more about the 99.9999% of humanity.**
**and even then, most totally insane people still have an internally consistent worldview that can be comprehended, so even they likely wouldn't count as "monsters" under the earlier definition.
 
2013-04-22 02:10:20 PM  

Tatsuma: EdNortonsTwin: Except it's not the same level of "personal" as shooting a car jacking victim would be.. The point I am making is that they are cowards. What's your point, Tats?

They walked up to a cop and shot him in cold blood

How hard is it to understand? They said they were not going to kill the hostage because he wasn't American. That's farking it, stop looking for conspiracies everywhere people, damn.


That report of course coming from the carjacking victim. The same one who couldn't decide if he had escaped, or was let go, so he told both stories. The same one who said that they said they were headed to Manhattan but then said that he thought he heard "Manhattan" when they were speaking Russian or Chechen. That guy. When they had already demonstrated that they didn't give a flying rat's ass what nationality were the people they blew up, and in fact, targeted an INTERNATIONAL event.

I've always given you the benefit of the doubt that you at least try to discuss things rationally. But lately it really looks like you have a script in your head and ignore everything that doesn't directly fit your script.
 
2013-04-22 02:12:59 PM  

JohnBigBootay: StaleCoffee: How does that still somehow not imply his age shouldn't be taken into consideration when it comes to responsibility for his actions?

You can draw from it whatever you'd like. Meanwhile each and every person I recall saying anything remotely similar (including myself) has stated that he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. In fact, the weakest punishment I have seen ANYONE mention specifically in any thread on the topic is life in prison. I see a lot of bloviating about 'apologists' but I've yet to see a single actual apologist or advocate for the guy (kid). everyone thinks he's guilty. Everyone thinks he should serve life in prison (at least). But it's not very interesting to fight with people who actually agree with you on the most important matters of the case so we squabble about nothing.


Then I'm with you, lets stop arguing and drop the "He was 19" thing and get back to agreeing that he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
 
2013-04-22 02:13:03 PM  

Tatsuma: Do you think Hitler deserved mercy? What about Saddam? Gaddafi? Ted Bundy?


Good lord.

Either you are thick, or cannot read.

Where on earth would you get the idea that I wrote anything that remotely suggested such a thing?

Seriously, reductio ad absurdum is a fallacy for a reason, Tats.

For an Armchair Theologian you sure have a messed up sense of Ethics.

Jean Valjean "deserved" mercy.  Giving it to him would not have (as I said before) "taxed one's mercy-giving capacity".  That he did not get mercy was effed up, we can all agree?  (But there would be no novel without that, right?)

So, given the fact that you still cannot parse the sentence I objected to in any meaningful way, I feel completely justified in supporting my argument via a work of fiction.

Just as you have done.
 
2013-04-22 02:15:41 PM  

Deucednuisance: Where on earth would you get the idea that I wrote anything that remotely suggested such a thing?


Deucednuisance: The only mercy that actually IS mercy is that which is extended to the undeserving. That's kind of what makes "mercy" merciful, yanno?
 
2013-04-22 02:19:53 PM  

StaleCoffee: Theaetetus: Ah, but what about Androcles and the lion? We can't know that the proverbial lion or wolf pup is evil until it does an evil act, just like the baby Hitler. In other words, the Talmudic saying only makes sense if evil is predestined and apparent... by way of one's parents.

Only, the thing is, science will go to the mat on the whole "raising a feral wolf pup will get you a feral wolf that wants to kill you" thing too. So you're over-complicating this for the sake of idealism.


I don't believe science has ever taken the position that people are predestined to do evil. And even if you start talking about fate with the quantum physicists, none of them would say that it's  apparent.

Theaetetus: But the story has a wolf pup. If the story were about the farmer finding a full grown wolf, with fresh sheep blood on his pelt, caught in a trap and freeing it, you'd be right. But that's not the story. Instead, it's saying that if your parents are evil, then you're predestined to do evil, so we should stamp out the bloodline of anyone who does evil, including babies.

Again, the operative word here is wolf. Not pup. It's already defined its nature, as would an adult Hitler. The nature of a feral animal is that it is feral. That's pretty solidly established scientifically.

...
said no one who ever brought in a stray kitten, ever.
Additionally, this doesn't apply here - Hitler was a human. He was defined by his nature as a proto-Hitler, he was defined by his  actions. You judge Hitler because of what he  has done, while you're judging the wolf pup because of what it  will be. That's why the story does not apply to a Hitler who  has acted, but only a baby Hitler, still in his cradle.

Theaetetus: Yes, and let's work on getting them better educations, branching out their worldview beyond religious fundamentalism, removing things that isolate them or lead them to join extremist groups, and countering people who try to whip them into murderous rages.

Or we could do it your way and ignore them until they kill people, 'cause that'll help.

Because we do such a wonderful job of that with our homegrown fundies I have complete and total faith that we can educate the foreign crazies!


So you say it's better to just not try and wait until a bunch of people are killed. Frankly, I believe that's wrong, and by definition will lead to more deaths.
... Not to mention the fact that we don't do it at all with our homegrown fundies.

Look, you're just trying to find shiat to argue about. I don't want to ignore that shiat, but I don't want to chase chimeras either.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm "just trying to find shiat to argue about". If so, then I'd just say "durr, your wrong" or "you're just trying to find shiat to argue about." Instead, I'm supporting my arguments substantively, and if you disagree with them, by all means go ahead. But if you can't, don't just try to claim that I'm trolling or something. That's just a cop out.
 
2013-04-22 02:20:06 PM  
Go back and watch the entire Terminator series.  In every movie, the Terminator lets one person live when he/she don't have to.  This is like that.  And Terminator starts with T...just like Tsarnaev.
 
2013-04-22 02:21:53 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: No, the real monsters aren't misunderstood by the world, they misunderstand the world themselves*


A fine argument, if I were arguing that there are no monsters in Real Life, but I wasn't.

I was confining myself to the Twilight Zone episode, in which there are no monsters.

Cheers!

Theaetetus: His statement was meant to say that there are no* pure evil killers


Thanks for a cogent argument.

But I really was just geeking out on the episode, not making any pronouncement about reality.

I'll try to be more clear in the future.
 
2013-04-22 02:23:24 PM  

StaleCoffee: Then I'm with you, lets stop arguing and drop the "He was 19" thing and get back to agreeing that he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


Are 19 year olds more likely to commit acts of terrorism than, say, 69 year olds? If so, we ignore it at our own peril.
 
2013-04-22 02:23:24 PM  

StaleCoffee: Then I'm with you, lets stop arguing and drop the "He was 19" thing and get back to agreeing that he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


Absolutely. He should be. Now I should disclose that I'm a pussy and that wouldn't be the death penalty for me. But ONLY because I don't want ANYONE to get the death penalty. Not even that his crimes don't 'deserve' the death penalty because if any crime deserves it, this qualifies. Just that I think that's a very dangerous power for the government to have and in my mind it has been applied somewhat ham-handedly and there's way too many corrupt/idiot/incompetent judges out there to be presiding over such a permanent measure.

/I now expect to be crucified for saying 'this kid doesn't deserve the death penalty' despite saying no such thing...

//That's fine, I'm used to it
 
2013-04-22 02:25:49 PM  

I_C_Weener: Go back and watch the entire Terminator series.  In every movie, the Terminator lets one person live when he/she don't have to.  This is like that.  And Terminator starts with T...just like Tsarnaev.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-22 02:25:50 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Absolutely. He should be. Now I should disclose that I'm a pussy and that wouldn't be the death penalty for me. But ONLY because I don't want ANYONE to get the death penalty.


So you don't think this kid deserves the death penalty? What the fark is wrong with you
 
2013-04-22 02:27:19 PM  

Tatsuma: Deucednuisance: Where on earth would you get the idea that I wrote anything that remotely suggested such a thing?

Deucednuisance: The only mercy that actually IS mercy is that which is extended to the undeserving. That's kind of what makes "mercy" merciful, yanno?


So, that means that I, personally, would pardon Hitler.

Oh-kay.

Still not gonna parse that sentence for us, are ya?
 
2013-04-22 02:28:28 PM  

Tatsuma: JohnBigBootay: Absolutely. He should be. Now I should disclose that I'm a pussy and that wouldn't be the death penalty for me. But ONLY because I don't want ANYONE to get the death penalty.

So you don't think this kid deserves the death penalty? What the fark is wrong with you


Nice strawman, Tats.
 
2013-04-22 02:31:29 PM  

Tatsuma: So you don't think this kid deserves the death penalty? What the fark is wrong with you


I literally would not have given Ted Bundy the death penalty. I think I said 'why' enough in my post (what's up with you and the ignoring the rest of the post - you already told me today you would not do that again). Has nothing to do with this kid - doesn't even enter into it. I'm anti death penalty in all cases. I'm still a human being - had I been the parent of a child killed and I saw the kid on the street I'd probably have tried to murder him with my own hands. I'm just just not comfortable with having the right to mete out that punishment belong to the state, that's all.
 
2013-04-22 02:32:35 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


I see what you're trying to say (with the rest of your posts adding valuable clarification). I absolutely agree that the surviving kid needs to be afforded the full weight of due process.

But let's not downplay what happened here in the name of trying to express that. If the reports stand, these kids were murderous and clearly wanted to kill as many people as they could. Now, maybe the younger was under the thrall of the elder (although, at this point, that really is the rawest of speculation), but it doesn't alter the fact that he participated in an act of mass mayhem which didn't stop at the marathon.

I expect and want them to face justice (and it pains me that one of them evaded it through his death), but don't expect me to feel any great degree of sympathy for either of them in the meanwhile.
 
2013-04-22 02:32:52 PM  
The cynic in me says that this wasn't a mistake, nor a show of mercy. They had a finite amount of ammo. Don't waste it on the guy who we already got money from. Save it for cops. Or each other.
 
2013-04-22 02:35:04 PM  

Deucednuisance: So, that means that I, personally, would pardon Hitler.


So you agree that, in fact, not everyone deserves mercy?

JohnBigBootay:

Dude, I was joking. You said that you'd be accused of this, and then I did exactly what I did in our first interaction. I agree with your position on this for the most part.
 
2013-04-22 02:36:07 PM  
Time asks: Why did the Tsarnaevs let their carjacking victim live?

Simple answer: he was probably not american. My bet is on muslim.
Mystery (probably) solved.
 
2013-04-22 02:39:28 PM  

Theaetetus: ...said no one who ever brought in a stray kitten, ever.
Additionally, this doesn't apply here - Hitler was a human. He was defined by his nature as a proto-Hitler, he was defined by his actions. You judge Hitler because of what he has done, while you're judging the wolf pup because of what it will be. That's why the story does not apply to a Hitler who has acted, but only a baby Hitler, still in his cradle.


A cat is not a wolf. A wolf pup grows into a wolf. This is not hyperbole, it is fact. You are factually wrong. If you want to argue this point further please find me something that definitively shows a feral wolf pup will not grow into a feral wolf. Everything from farking White Fang to Evolutionary Biology will show you wrong here. You just need to stop, please. The wolf pup grows up to be a wolf that will not be safe around your chickens or babies. It applies because its nature is shown to be cruel, however helpless it may be in the moment. Could there be an exception? Sure, maybe even Hitler might have changed his mind after killing millions of people, but in the real world, betting on that leaves you with dead chickens and babies.

Theaetetus: So you say it's better to just not try and wait until a bunch of people are killed. Frankly, I believe that's wrong, and by definition will lead to more deaths.
... Not to mention the fact that we don't do it at all with our homegrown fundies.


Yeah that's totally what I was saying and not you being a complete asshole and dragging this so far off topic you can make up whatever the fark you want and throw it at the wall to see if it sticks. No, wait, that is exactly what you're doing.

How about this: his age is totally irrelevant and the anecdote is cogent. Your justifications for racial and ethnic profiling as some kind of great idea for being inclusive and educational are great for fairy tale land but when applied in reality just plain don't work well. By all means carry on thinking that handing a bunch of hillbilly cops the ability to pull over brown skinned citizens and "educate" them is a good plan right out of the gate.

Theaetetus: Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm "just trying to find shiat to argue about". If so, then I'd just say "durr, your wrong" or "you're just trying to find shiat to argue about." Instead, I'm supporting my arguments substantively, and if you disagree with them, by all means go ahead. But if you can't, don't just try to claim that I'm trolling or something. That's just a cop out.


Comparing a kitten to a wolf pup and then suggesting racial profiling is a good way to be inclusive of radical teens isn't exactly substantive support for your arguments.

I don't think you're trolling, I think you're just looking to be right without admitting your observations may have been in error, like this farking wolf thing. It's a farking wolf. It will eat your face.

Tell you what: go give me some substantive evidence that raising a feral animal will net you a cuddlywiddlepettypoo often enough that it's worth the risk and I'll re-evaluate my position on stomping Hitlers cliff hanging fingers.
 
2013-04-22 02:42:40 PM  

JohnBigBootay: StaleCoffee: Then I'm with you, lets stop arguing and drop the "He was 19" thing and get back to agreeing that he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Absolutely. He should be. Now I should disclose that I'm a pussy and that wouldn't be the death penalty for me. But ONLY because I don't want ANYONE to get the death penalty. Not even that his crimes don't 'deserve' the death penalty because if any crime deserves it, this qualifies. Just that I think that's a very dangerous power for the government to have and in my mind it has been applied somewhat ham-handedly and there's way too many corrupt/idiot/incompetent judges out there to be presiding over such a permanent measure.

/I now expect to be crucified for saying 'this kid doesn't deserve the death penalty' despite saying no such thing...

//That's fine, I'm used to it


I'm against the death penalty also, so... hey.

Though I also support required military service so I end up sitting by myself at the opinion tables.
 
2013-04-22 02:45:03 PM  

StaleCoffee: Again, the operative word here is wolf. Not pup. It's already defined its nature, as would an adult Hitler. The nature of a feral animal is that it is feral.


The scary part of that story is that it tries to be an analogy at all.  If it were only talking about wolf pups, or only talking about Hitler, it'd be different. But it isn't.

"Feral" indeed.
 
2013-04-22 02:45:43 PM  
Tommy Moo: He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.

Get the fark out of my country. Everyone, every single person, be it your dottering old grandmother or Adolph Stalin Pot Jr. deserves a fair trial. We are a nation of laws. A civilization is no better than how it treats the worst in its borders.
 
2013-04-22 02:47:45 PM  

Tatsuma: Dude, I was joking. You said that you'd be accused of this, and then I did exactly what I did in our first interaction. I agree with your position on this for the most part.


You know what, as soon as I wrote that I realized it. Anyway, good one. I was asleep at the wheel. At least I had the good sense to not go with my first example for no death penalty.

/it was Hitler
 
2013-04-22 02:48:57 PM  

Ed Grubermann: Get the fark out of my country. Everyone, every single person, be it your dottering old grandmother or Adolph Stalin Pot Jr. deserves a fair trial. We are a nation of laws. A civilization is no better than how it treats the worst in its borders.


Sooooo, you are saying we should give him a fair trial....THEN hang him?
 
2013-04-22 02:49:15 PM  

StaleCoffee: Though I also support required military service so I end up sitting by myself at the opinion tables.


All righty. I think I'd sign on for some kind of required 'national' service though I'd not stipulate it necessarily be military in nature .
 
2013-04-22 02:49:34 PM  

itazurakko: StaleCoffee: Again, the operative word here is wolf. Not pup. It's already defined its nature, as would an adult Hitler. The nature of a feral animal is that it is feral.

The scary part of that story is that it tries to be an analogy at all.  If it were only talking about wolf pups, or only talking about Hitler, it'd be different. But it isn't.

"Feral" indeed.


Yes. It was also talking about Leprechauns. I hate those farkers too.
 
2013-04-22 02:50:47 PM  

JohnBigBootay: StaleCoffee: Though I also support required military service so I end up sitting by myself at the opinion tables.

All righty. I think I'd sign on for some kind of required 'national' service though I'd not stipulate it necessarily be military in nature .


That's a topic I'd love to get lost in but entirely unrelated to the thread, unfortunately.
 
2013-04-22 02:51:37 PM  

Ed Grubermann: Tommy Moo: He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.

Get the fark out of my country. Everyone, every single person, be it your dottering old grandmother or Adolph Stalin Pot Jr. deserves a fair trial. We are a nation of laws. A civilization is no better than how it treats the worst in its borders.


That pretty much sums it up. No matter how distasteful and disgusting these people are they do deserve their rights under due process. If we let the government not give him the fairest trial he can get then we will be no better than a kangaroo court and it will be a matter of time before they try to get away with more.
 
2013-04-22 02:52:35 PM  

Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: Go back and watch the entire Terminator series.  In every movie, the Terminator lets one person live when he/she don't have to.  This is like that.  And Terminator starts with T...just like Tsarnaev.

[i.imgur.com image 300x300]


I have always been curious on the origin of that meme, but I don't know what to call it to search for it. I looked for "blown away" "amazed party guy," and a few others at knowyourmeme.com, but I couldn't find it. Anyone know?
 
2013-04-22 02:53:15 PM  

Theaetetus: His statement was meant to say that there are no* pure evil killers whose motivations are so alien that we cannot comprehend them


MY point is that monsters are not monsters because the world does not understand them. They are monsters because they misunderstand the world.

Our ability to parse their twisted logic is not a requirement for their being monsters.

Theaetetus: But that doesn't mean they are automatically irrational bloodthirsty monsters. That's just a fairy tale to help people sleep better by ignoring the fact that it's men who do evil, not monsters.


Of course it is men who do these terrible things. Men who have become monsters. I don't think anyone is genuinely talking about  Pumpkinhead or Cenobites here.
 
2013-04-22 02:54:03 PM  

Ed Grubermann: Tommy Moo: He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.

Get the fark out of my country. Everyone, every single person, be it your dottering old grandmother or Adolph Stalin Pot Jr. deserves a fair trial. We are a nation of laws. A civilization is no better than how it treats the worst in its borders.


Make me. Oh... wait. I guess that would take a trial, wouldn't it?

Nope. I'm here, and I vote, and there's nothing you can do about it.
 
2013-04-22 02:55:24 PM  
Fark.com: Zooey Deschanel launches new website. Before all you hipster fanboys nergasm, it's not what you were hoping for

Tatsuma: I thought this might actually be a cool thing, I figured 'hey those supposedly intelligent and independent women might have great things to say about entertainment! I'm actually the kind of guy who could appreciate such a website.'

Then I read those articles and... for fark's sake. Is this what intelligent and independent women are supposed to be like? Because I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference with the stupid vapid ones.

Reviewing Glee and you say 'one thing that stood out for me this episode... hair'

... intelligent and independent women don't care about plot narrative, character development, arcs, continuity, they care about farking hair and shoes?

for fark's sake.



STOP THE HATE

s3-ec.buzzfed.com
 
2013-04-22 02:59:48 PM  

Deucednuisance: I was confining myself to the Twilight Zone episode, in which there are no monsters.


Ah. Didn't catch the Maple Street reference.

(Ironic, since I incorporated a comic book one. I think we geeked past each other.)
 
2013-04-22 03:02:28 PM  

d1zzy32: This thread is worse than rape.

No mercy for the bombers.


I don't see anyone asking for mercy. I do see people asking for justice and the rule of law. And hen there's the braying mob of blood-thirsty wolves demanding their piece of bloody meat...
 
2013-04-22 03:07:46 PM  
Welcome back,
Your dreams were your ticket out.

Welcome back,
To that same old place that you laughed about.

Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.

Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Here where we need ya (Here where we need ya)

Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've hot him on the spot, welcome back,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.


/and that's all I have to say about Tatsuma
 
2013-04-22 03:08:28 PM  

StaleCoffee: Theaetetus: ...said no one who ever brought in a stray kitten, ever.
Additionally, this doesn't apply here - Hitler was a human. He was defined by his nature as a proto-Hitler, he was defined by his actions. You judge Hitler because of what he has done, while you're judging the wolf pup because of what it will be. That's why the story does not apply to a Hitler who has acted, but only a baby Hitler, still in his cradle.

A cat is not a wolf. A wolf pup grows into a wolf. This is not hyperbole, it is fact. You are factually wrong.


I never said a cat grows into a wolf. This is fact. You are factually wrong by trying to claim I'm factually wrong.  Also, that's a bullshiat argument and you know it.

Are there feral cats? Absolutely. Can you adopt a stray kitten and domesticate it? Absolutely. Therefore, contrary to your earlier statement "The nature of a feral animal is that it is feral. That's pretty solidly established scientifically,"it is not established at all.
But hey, don't trust me, let's look at Wiki:
A feral organism (from Latin fera, "a wild beast") is a domesticated species that has reverted to living in the wild..
The cat returns readily to a feral state if it has not been socialized properly in its young life... A local population of feral cats living in an urban area and using a common food source is sometimes called a feral cat colony. As feral cats multiply quickly, it is difficult to control their populations. Animal shelters attempt to adopt out feral cats, especially kittens, but often are overwhelmed with sheer numbers and euthanasia is used.

It appears to be pretty solidly established that being feral is a condition that an animal may go into or out of, rather than being an inherent part of its nature.

If you want to argue this point further please find me something that definitively shows a feral wolf pup will not grow into a feral wolf. Everything from farking White Fang to Evolutionary Biology will show you wrong here. You just need to stop, please.

Frankly, you should stop relying on fiction as the source of your "science". Although wolves are much tougher to train than dogs, they are trainable.
Also, see above regarding the definition of "feral". It's not an inherent trait, like "white" or "furry", it's a status.

Furthermore, this all has nothing to do with the substantive argument: Hitler was not inherently evil. A proto-Hitler baby is not destined to become Hitler. You judge Hitler based on his  actions, not based on what he  will become,as the Talmudic story does.

How about this: his age is totally irrelevant and the anecdote is cogent.

Do you have some evidence that 19 year olds do not commit murder more often than 69 year olds? I have counter evidence, if you'd like to eat some crow. But I'll wait for you to provide some justification that his age is irrelevant.

Your justifications for racial and ethnic profiling as some kind of great idea for being inclusive and educational are great for fairy tale land but when applied in reality just plain don't work well. By all means carry on thinking that handing a bunch of hillbilly cops the ability to pull over brown skinned citizens and "educate" them is a good plan right out of the gate.

[Citation needed]. As I said, we aren't currently doing this, so how exactly can you justify the statement that it doesn't work?
Also, the fact that you think that  all I'm talking about is pulling over brown skinned citizens seems to indicate that you aren't actually reading my posts and you're just trolling.

Comparing a kitten to a wolf pup and then suggesting racial profiling is a good way to be inclusive of radical teens isn't exactly substantive support for your arguments.

That was you both times: you compared a kitten to a wolf pup (while I was comparing a feral kitten to a feral cat); and you suggested racial profiling (in fact, you were the first person to mention race. I was talking about  age). The fact that you're misrepresenting your own false arguments as mine again is an indication that you're just trolling.

I don't think you're trolling, I think you're just looking to be right without admitting your observations may have been in error, like this farking wolf thing. It's a farking wolf. It will eat your face.

Tell you what: go give me some substantive evidence that raising a feral animal will net you a cuddlywiddlepettypoo often enough that it's worth the risk and I'll re-evaluate my position on stomping Hitlers cliff hanging fingers.

upload.wikimedia.org

And frankly, I do think you're trolling now. You've got nothing to respond to my substantive arguments, so you're misrepresenting what I've said, calling me names, and surrounding yourself with strawmen. I think it's pretty clear that any further time spent on you is a waste.

But I do hope that you'll read those wiki articles. They're quite interesting and may make you less incorrect in the future.
 
2013-04-22 03:09:22 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Tatsuma: hy even write that shiat in the first place if it's not to somewhat excuse him? That's why we thought it was apologia.

Like he said, maybe he just wants to understand the guy. Not sure why any of this matters all that much. I bet you two cents he thinks he's guilty and if he was on the jury he'd vote to convict. Who care what questions he has along the way - he's hardly advocating trying him as a minor or suggesting rehabilitation and release. He thinks the guy is guilty and he wonders how the fark and why he got to the place where he thought this would be a good idea and I think that's a fine question to ask.


The person should be punished for a crime if they are guilty, the law is fairly clear, but that doesn't mean that how that person got there was as black and white as Tatsuma makes it.  We can save the kids of our future from falling into the same traps by understanding why they fall into them today, and, at the same time, we save society from suffering these types of tragedies as much as possible.

Palestinians didn't start bombing Israelis because they were born Palestinians.  Saying that doesn't pardon their blame one iota, but it does provide a learning opportunity on how to prevent more of the same in the future by opening a door to reason.  It's also not pardoning blame to say that potentially others can be blamed for the underlying reasons, either.  You are responsible for your own actions, but that doesn't mean that you are the only person responsible for them, and, yes, occasionally you can be unduly influenced in to an action for one reason or another according to US law, which, again, doesn't mean you aren't responsible for the action, just not wholly responsible and that's only if an affirmative defense can be proven.
 
2013-04-22 03:09:44 PM  

Tommy Moo: Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: Go back and watch the entire Terminator series.  In every movie, the Terminator lets one person live when he/she don't have to.  This is like that.  And Terminator starts with T...just like Tsarnaev.

[i.imgur.com image 300x300]

I have always been curious on the origin of that meme, but I don't know what to call it to search for it. I looked for "blown away" "amazed party guy," and a few others at knowyourmeme.com, but I couldn't find it. Anyone know?


Sudden realization guy. :)
 
2013-04-22 03:12:47 PM  

Theaetetus: Tatsuma: Deucednuisance: Well, that bit of nonsense a is splendid example of the bullshiate that proves the old saying that just because a thing is said cleverly it is not necessarily valid.

Seriously, would you care to elucidate how the conclusion follows from the premise?

It comes from the Talmud, and here's a story to illustrate it:

A farmer once came upon a baby wolf who was dying of thirst. Clearly abandoned by its mother, he decided to bring it home and nurse it back to health. His neighbor said 'You crazy! This be a wolf! He gon' kill all your sheeps!' to which the merciful farmer said 'No, tis but a baby! Shut your whore mouth' and brought it back into his pen. He nursed it up to health. A few years later, the wolf picked up an AK and shot all the sheeps'.

Seriously, there are so many situations where having mercy on people who are cruel would lead as a consequence to cruelty on those who deserve mercy. That doesn't mean that you're the one who will be doing it yourself.

Incidentally, the above story also condones killing babies since they may turn out to be Hitler.


Or Jesus.
 
2013-04-22 03:13:43 PM  

Trapper439: Welcome back,
Your dreams were your ticket out.

Welcome back,
To that same old place that you laughed about.

Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.

Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Here where we need ya (Here where we need ya)

Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've hot him on the spot, welcome back,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

/and that's all I have to say about Tatsuma


That wasn't meant to be a compliment, btw. Kotter was an idealist loser.
 
2013-04-22 03:16:01 PM  

I_C_Weener: Go back and watch the entire Terminator series.  In every movie, the Terminator lets one person live when he/she don't have to.  This is like that.  And Terminator starts with T...just like Tsarnaev.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-22 03:16:14 PM  
I was told they let the victim live because he was not an American.

They also were heard to say: "We're the ones who bombed the Marathon," not smart!

I for one would like to know how they got those nice cars they drove, how they could afford Dartmouth tuition when neither has a job, and how they could afford 6--month trips to Russia.  No rich relatives in sight, what's the answer?
 
2013-04-22 03:18:24 PM  
I think initially they thought they got away with it undetected. I also think like with the DC Sniper, they were planning on planting bombs at other events to start a city-wide panic. It was when they saw their pictures released is when they freaked out and started making all the mistakes.
 
2013-04-22 03:18:40 PM  

Theaetetus: so we've come full circle, people!


It's the ciiiiircle of derp!
 
2013-04-22 03:20:13 PM  

olddinosaur: Dartmouth tuition


U Mass Dartmouth, not the Ivy. And every fricking article I've read on the subject mentions he was a scholarship student with good grades.
 
2013-04-22 03:21:33 PM  

Ed Grubermann: Incidentally, the above story also condones killing babies since they may turn out to be Hitler.


I like to play the 'would you go back in time to kill hitler?' game with these caveats....

1- you could only go back for a period of time lasting 30 seconds to achieve his death

2 - You would be teleported directly into 7-day old baby hitler's nursery with nothing but your bare hands or whatever is in the nursery to work with, and nursery's are notoriously not full of implements of death...you see where this is going...you now have 30 seconds to tear the baby hitler apart limb from limb or break the 7 day old baby's neck...go!
 
2013-04-22 03:22:01 PM  

CheatCommando: Theaetetus: so we've come full circle, people!

It's the ciiiiircle of derp!

And it moves us all
through politics and sports
through main and geek
till we find our place
on the Fark tabs
in the Circle
The Circle of Derp!
 
2013-04-22 03:23:32 PM  

I_C_Weener: Ed Grubermann: Get the fark out of my country. Everyone, every single person, be it your dottering old grandmother or Adolph Stalin Pot Jr. deserves a fair trial. We are a nation of laws. A civilization is no better than how it treats the worst in its borders.

Sooooo, you are saying we should give him a fair trial....THEN hang him?


If he is found guilty, yes. That's how the system works.
 
2013-04-22 03:25:51 PM  

Tommy Moo: Ed Grubermann: Tommy Moo: He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.

Get the fark out of my country. Everyone, every single person, be it your dottering old grandmother or Adolph Stalin Pot Jr. deserves a fair trial. We are a nation of laws. A civilization is no better than how it treats the worst in its borders.

Make me. Oh... wait. I guess that would take a trial, wouldn't it?

Nope. I'm here, and I vote, and there's nothing you can do about it.


And you're still an un-American dimwit. And there's nothing you can do about it.
 
2013-04-22 03:26:19 PM  

asmodeus224: Ed Grubermann: Incidentally, the above story also condones killing babies since they may turn out to be Hitler.

I like to play the 'would you go back in time to kill hitler?' game with these caveats....

1- you could only go back for a period of time lasting 30 seconds to achieve his death

2 - You would be teleported directly into 7-day old baby hitler's nursery with nothing but your bare hands or whatever is in the nursery to work with, and nursery's are notoriously not full of implements of death...you see where this is going...you now have 30 seconds to tear the baby hitler apart limb from limb or break the 7 day old baby's neck...go!


You need a better imagination.
 
2013-04-22 03:27:09 PM  

Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


Blood thirsty? Maybe not. But they are killers. They killed people. So I think the term applies here. Blood thirsty may even be appropriate here as well, as there is evidence that they were planning out several more attacks. Sounds a bit 'blood thirsty' to me.

The point I was getting at is that even if they were evil bloodthirsty killers they would still deserve a just and fair trial as well as a basic level of respect as human beings while the one kid is being held. I find the level of hate and bloodlust from many of you in these threads to be wholly inappropriate and more than a little offensive. Be better than that.

I was just being technical in my response in the use of your terminology. I think they deserve a fair trail as well. And the scene of the cheering village people lining up as law enforcement vehicles went down the street at parade speed after the suspect's capture was a bit unsettling.

But in the age of American Fear, I doubt he'll get much in the way of a fair trail. Especially if they label him an 'enemy combatant.'


I seem to recall people calling out "thank you" to the police and saying things like, "I'm so happy he was captured alive!!'

/spent more time reading comments on fark and listening to police scanner than I did watching tv.
 
2013-04-22 03:27:23 PM  

CheatCommando: olddinosaur: Dartmouth tuition

U Mass Dartmouth, not the Ivy. And every fricking article I've read on the subject mentions he was a scholarship student with good grades.


That accounts for about 10% of his income, now what does he do for books, meals, rent, auto expense and pocket money?

And who paid for the 6 months in Russia, not to mention the round trip ticket which is $3000+?
 
2013-04-22 03:29:39 PM  

Voiceofreason01: doglover:
I'm not a killer. Those "kids" on the other hand put a shrapnel bomb next to a child in a crowd at a public event then shot at cops and killed each-other. They're very much bloodthirsty killers, to the tee.

So maybe we should hold the one still alive without trial so that he can be beaten by the police and sexually assaulted in jail. Which is what a lot of people(even some who should know better) have been suggesting. Sounds like justice to me. Something terrible happened and this kid should face the consequences but we also need to respect his rights and give him a fair trial. Seeking revenge in this situation is NOT OK.


i172.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-22 03:31:30 PM  
I asked this question first, and it's not just the carjacking victim it's the convenience store employees and customers too. I think they had a specific target they were trying to take out at the race, why else use cell phones to detonate instead of timers? So that they could set them off when their target was near.
 
2013-04-22 03:42:51 PM  

Cythraul: ...And the scene of the cheering village people lining up as law enforcement vehicles went down the street at parade speed after the suspect's capture was a bit unsettling....


Thank God someone else felt like that.  WTF was that shiat all about?  The entire situation was sad from beginning to end.  People being blown to pieces, people dying, murder, mayhem, blood in the streets.  Is it a relief that the whole thing was over?  Sure.  Does it warrant acting like your team just won the Super World Series Masters Bowl though?

What the hell ever happened to civilized behavior or dignity?  Crack a beer, grab your boom box and head out into the street to celebrate while chanting "USA"?  That's what passes for relieved closure of an awful situation?

Unsettling is one way to describe it, I suppose.  It kind of embarrassed me for a moment to be an American.
 
2013-04-22 03:43:59 PM  

Deucednuisance: And if the idea is "we are all potential monsters" then the concept "Monster" loses all meaning.


What about you, Deucednuisance? Why didn't they target you?
 
2013-04-22 03:44:54 PM  

Ed Grubermann: Tommy Moo: He's not a suspect. There's no ambiguity here. Hang him upside down and rip his fingernails off and then shoot him in the back of the head with no trial for all I care. You can hug and kiss his corpse if you like.

Get the fark out of my country. Everyone, every single person, be it your dottering old grandmother or Adolph Stalin Pot Jr. deserves a fair trial. We are a nation of laws. A civilization is no better than how it treats the worst in its borders.


It is quite interesting to me that "time-outs" count if you are on the opposite side of the law. Go on a killing spree, but the second you call a time-out, the world is supposed to forget what just transpired. No matter how much you ask someone to be unbiased, if they just witnessed you killing their friends or trying to kill them, it is not only impossible but silly for humans to do so. The only reason for the trial really is to get the "why" in these cases, not the "if" they did it.
 
2013-04-22 03:45:09 PM  

Theaetetus: I never said a cat grows into a wolf. This is fact. You are factually wrong by trying to claim I'm factually wrong. Also, that's a bullshiat argument and you know it.

Are there feral cats? Absolutely. Can you adopt a stray kitten and domesticate it? Absolutely. Therefore, contrary to your earlier statement "The nature of a feral animal is that it is feral. That's pretty solidly established scientifically,"it is not established at all.
But hey, don't trust me, let's look at Wiki:
A feral organism (from Latin fera, "a wild beast") is a domesticated species that has reverted to living in the wild..
The cat returns readily to a feral state if it has not been socialized properly in its young life... A local population of feral cats living in an urban area and using a common food source is sometimes called a feral cat colony. As feral cats multiply quickly, it is difficult to control their populations. Animal shelters attempt to adopt out feral cats, especially kittens, but often are overwhelmed with sheer numbers and euthanasia is used.
It appears to be pretty solidly established that being feral is a condition that an animal may go into or out of, rather than being an inherent part of its nature.


Oh ffs.

Okay, sorry, I used the wrong word. Wild. Wild animal. Better?

A cat is not a farking wolf. Stop farking talking about cats. Cats are domesticated animals, wolves are wild animals. My error in word usage, you still remain in error in the entire concept, but in your mission to Be Right About This, I'm sure you'll pull some other hyperbolic bullshiat out after you've lost the entire point of the statement to begin with.

Theaetetus: Frankly, you should stop relying on fiction as the source of your "science". Although wolves are much tougher to train than dogs, they are trainable.
Also, see above regarding the definition of "feral". It's not an inherent trait, like "white" or "furry", it's a status.

Furthermore, this all has nothing to do with the substantive argument: Hitler was not inherently evil. A proto-Hitler baby is not destined to become Hitler. You judge Hitler based on his actions, not based on what he will become,as the Talmudic story does.


Okay, you've got a wikipedia degree, I'm obviously in error here.

Wolves are wild, not feral. I was wrong. You're still wrong here, too.

You are still forcing this into an entirely different place than it needs to be, though I suspect now you either really are a troll or you're just an asshole.

No, Hitler wasn't evil as a baby but then the statement wouldn't apply, would it? because we wouldn't know if he was going to be cruel or not without knowledge of the future. Therefore you are still talking out of your ass. I and the story both judge him based on his actions as defined by the word "cruel" because baby Hitler as judged by anyone in the context of the time would not be judged as "cruel" whereas a wolf pup would be judged by its nature as "wild." You are dragging together multiple concepts and stripping away important context just to slam your own bullshiat in and make it fit.

I would consider Hitler cruel per his actions wrt the Holocaust, yet I cannot know if his nature would remain predestined as cruel. It is a pretty safe farking bet that it would be so, however, and eschewing mercy at that point is a very rational action. The same with not taking in a wolf pup, no matter how much you want to wave wikipedia in the air.

Lets look at it like this: some dogs, no matter how well trained and how much work is involved with them, are not safe around children. Wild wolves require significantly more training than dogs, which are domestic animals. Yet into this you're saying: WOLVES ARE OKAY LETS BRING THEM IN THE HOUSE.

You want to put in the years of intense training required to make a wolf nominally safe as a pet? Go for it. For the rest of the world that does not have the free time or energy to invest on minimal to no return, adopting a dog from a kill shelter is the more reasonable way to go. You go ahead and bring a wolf into your house though, whatever.

Theaetetus: And frankly, I do think you're trolling now. You've got nothing to respond to my substantive arguments, so you're misrepresenting what I've said, calling me names, and surrounding yourself with strawmen. I think it's pretty clear that any further time spent on you is a waste.

But I do hope that you'll read those wiki articles. They're quite interesting and may make you less incorrect in the future.


I'm calling you names because you're intentionally being an asshole about this. I haven't misrepresented anything, you've been twisting shiat so far out of context I have to unbend it just to get it back to something resembling the original conversation.
 
2013-04-22 03:49:35 PM  

craig328: Cythraul: ...And the scene of the cheering village people lining up as law enforcement vehicles went down the street at parade speed after the suspect's capture was a bit unsettling....

Thank God someone else felt like that.  WTF was that shiat all about?  The entire situation was sad from beginning to end.  People being blown to pieces, people dying, murder, mayhem, blood in the streets.  Is it a relief that the whole thing was over?  Sure.  Does it warrant acting like your team just won the Super World Series Masters Bowl though?

What the hell ever happened to civilized behavior or dignity?  Crack a beer, grab your boom box and head out into the street to celebrate while chanting "USA"?  That's what passes for relieved closure of an awful situation?

Unsettling is one way to describe it, I suppose.  It kind of embarrassed me for a moment to be an American.


Seriously? Did you cry when Bin Laden was killed also?
 
2013-04-22 03:49:53 PM  

olddinosaur: And who paid for the 6 months in Russia, not to mention the round trip ticket which is $3000+?


1.  Probably relatives, but alternatively I believe the cost of living is lower in his area of Russia, so other than the cost of the tickets(covered by family, loans, part time job, etc...), it'd probably save him money.  Plus, depending on the degree he might even be able to finagle some credits while over there.
2.  cheaptickets.com is saying ~$1.5k for a round trip ticket from Boston to Russia.
 
2013-04-22 03:50:26 PM  

craig328: What the hell ever happened to civilized behavior or dignity? Crack a beer, grab your boom box and head out into the street to celebrate while chanting "USA"? That's what passes for relieved closure of an awful situation?

Unsettling is one way to describe it, I suppose. It kind of embarrassed me for a moment to be an American.


Really? Grateful citizens cheering the law enforcement and first responders who safely apprehended the bomber bothered you?
 
2013-04-22 03:51:32 PM  

olddinosaur: That accounts for about 10% of his income, now what does he do for books, meals, rent, auto expense and pocket money?

And who paid for the 6 months in Russia, not to mention the round trip ticket which is $3000+?


You have a point, but it's microscopic. One could say the same thing about virtually all college students and the answer is almost always student loans and family, not the farking taliban.
 
2013-04-22 03:52:54 PM  

Theaetetus: But I do hope that you'll read those wiki articles. They're quite interesting and may make you less incorrect in the future.


Also, in case you didn't read your own link, here's some useful information:

"As adults, wolves have been shown, most of the time, to be largely unpredictable, and will sometimes display aggressive behaviour toward small animals and children. Pure wolves can never be fully trusted with children because, unlike dogs, they lack any alteration of their predatory behavior."
 
2013-04-22 03:55:13 PM  

Tatsuma: So you agree that, in fact, not everyone deserves mercy?


I can't tell if you're just missing the point or doing it on purpose.  You're certainly going off on a tangent about stuff I didn't say.  And...

Still not gonna parse the sentence, are ya?

Just askin', because you've sure written a lot of words without addressing my initial point.

Are you ever wrong?  Mistaken?  Ever?
 
2013-04-22 04:00:25 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: What about you, Deucednuisance? Why didn't they target you?


I'm the town vagrant, and don't have a house for the lights to be switched on and off?
 
2013-04-22 04:22:58 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful
...
The point I was getting at is that even if they were evil bloodthirsty killers they would still deserve a just and fair trial as well as a basic level of respect as human beings while the one kid is being held.


When they planned, prepared for, and committed these crimes, they were adults. Old enough to drive, vote, serve in the military, serve on a jury. They weren't "kids", however confused and/or angry they might or might not have been.
 
2013-04-22 04:25:15 PM  
Time apparently still thinks that human beings are thinking clearly while committing crimes. How long have they been in business? Are they tired of hiring people born yesterday?
 
2013-04-22 04:44:12 PM  

vernonFL: [www.biography.com image 616x418]

John Adams frowns on our shenanigans.


PERFECTION!
 
2013-04-22 05:11:44 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
 
2013-04-22 05:34:47 PM  
Wow, who would have thought the thread I put Tats on ignore with would be one where I agree with him almost 100%. An insufferable prick is even worse when they take my side.
 
2013-04-22 05:50:49 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.


¿Porque no los dos?
 
2013-04-22 06:19:24 PM  

asmodeus224: Ed Grubermann: Incidentally, the above story also condones killing babies since they may turn out to be Hitler.

I like to play the 'would you go back in time to kill hitler?' game with these caveats....

1- you could only go back for a period of time lasting 30 seconds to achieve his death

2 - You would be teleported directly into 7-day old baby hitler's nursery with nothing but your bare hands or whatever is in the nursery to work with, and nursery's are notoriously not full of implements of death...you see where this is going...you now have 30 seconds to tear the baby hitler apart limb from limb or break the 7 day old baby's neck...go!


Fun,  but I think you should up the ante.  You are transported into a nursery with 5 babies - you have no idea which one is Adolf.  If you intend to do this, you'll have to kill them all.  Oh, I guess you could bump the time up to 60 seconds.
 
2013-04-22 06:29:49 PM  

jesus_is_dead: Fun, but I think you should up the ante. You are transported into a nursery with 5 babies - you have no idea which one is Adolf.


Easy. It's the baby who looks half jewish.
 
2013-04-22 06:38:51 PM  

Tokin42: Maybe Time magazine should have asked the carjacking victim.  NBC (Pete Williams) says he told them the killers said they wouldn't kill him because he "wasn't American".


I guess LingZi Lu didn't get that memo then.
 
2013-04-22 06:46:38 PM  
You mean the fact that they went to a store and the guy took that opportunity to run?
 
2013-04-22 06:57:43 PM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


www.flightglobal.com
 
2013-04-22 07:29:18 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Meh, don't give him an audience. I'd rather him be given life in prison with no contact or communication to the outside world. Let everything about him fade away to nothing more than a footnote in history. They wanted attention, the best thing would be to deny him that.


Ever heard of 'be careful what you wish for'?

They wanted attention, they'll get attention - just not the kind they dreamed of. He can fade away to a footnote and still be on camera. Imagine the Truman Show only with absolutely nothing interesting going on. Now imagine being a batshiat imam trying to recruit young stupid males to the cause, when even they will have seen what horrors the Great Satan has in store for them - mediocre food, lousy TV, a couple hours of boring exercises, prayers, whatever...tedium.
 
2013-04-22 08:10:03 PM  
Locally, we had a person place a pipe bomb on top of a gas meter.When the bomb didn't go off when the timer hit zero, she went to see what the problem was.She found the batteries were in backwards and corrected that issue.Unfortunately (for her) when she turned the batteries around she had forgot to reset the timer.As soon as the batteries were put in correctly it went boom on her lap.She also doesn't have any hands left to try again.
 
2013-04-22 08:48:08 PM  

BitwiseShift: How a Stupid Mistake Led Police Straight to the Boston Terrorists

So what police force would a smart mistake lead to?


All mistakes are stupid. Otherwise it's called an idea.
 
2013-04-22 09:01:15 PM  
There are many questions including the one in headline.

I am also curious about the supposed shootout preceding suspect#2 arrest.  It doesnt make sense if he was trying to commit suicide as alleged; in that he was not shot.

I think there are many discrepancies in the reporting and story.
 
2013-04-22 09:42:44 PM  
All these comments, and not a single one pointing out that Subby misspelled "Daylight Saving Time" while mocking Terrorists for being dumb.  I am disappoint.
 
2013-04-23 12:33:24 AM  

Voiceofreason01: or maybe they were confused and angry kids and not the blood thirsty killers that most of you are portraying them as.

/I find this bloodlust from the media, the public and (more worryingly) the government.....distastful


This^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-04-23 12:58:49 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: I'll buy this.

Consider that the bombs went off at 2:50. If they thought the race was going to start at 12 noon, they would have expected the premiere racers to come through, hence more of a crowd and a splash.


Not that I have any inside info, but I've wondered if the bombers looked at last year's average times & thought they would apply this year. Usually the bulk of runners (opposed to wheelchair & elite competitors) are released from Hopkinton between 10:10 and 10:40am. Last year the average time of completion was 4 hours 18 mins. This was atypical because last year was freakin' hot (temps in the mid-to-upper 80s) and running times were much slower than usual. Normally, the average time of completion is around 3 hours 50 mins.

If these 2 chuckleheads had set things off 30 mins. earlier, there would have been a lot more runners & a lot more spectators/family & friends waiting for their peeps to cross the finish line. Thank goodness they didn't. farkers.
 
2013-04-23 02:53:18 PM  

He_Hate_Me: SirGunslinger: I'm just thankful they took their bombing lessons from the Taliban as opposed to the IRA otherwise it could have been a lot worse.

The IRA would frequently call up a location they were about to bomb so that innocent civilians could be evacuated.


And then they would explode the bomb in the trash can outside just as the civilians were being led past it.  I lived in London at the height of the bombings and remember it well.  The IRA were not some noble bunch of freedom fighters worthy of praise; they were and are no different from any other terrorist.
 
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