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(Jezebel)   What men want from a relationship is not a place to recharge, nor feel secure, nor where we can be ourselves but a growth experience where the man listens to a woman's every thought and worry and figures out what her facial expression means   (jezebel.com) divider line 377
    More: Followup, interpersonal relationship, economic growths  
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12386 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2013 at 7:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-22 12:44:58 PM

bdub77: Men want to do whatever the f*ck they want to do, most of which includes shooting and harassing people on Xbox Live and none of which includes listening to a woman talk.


It's always nice when one of the local warrior/children comes out and confirms essentially exactly what the crazy lady was talking about.

Unfortunately, she wasn't 100% wrong.
 
2013-04-22 12:45:33 PM
You know what men and women want in a relationship?

They don't know, as it changes moment by moment.

You could solve 99% of all relationship problems by smacking people upside the head with the fact that until people acknowledge that human beings are mercurial, vain, dishonest and selfish creatures whose wants and needs change more frequently than the end user agreement on iTunes.

If you want to be in a successful relationship with another human being, you need to realize that it's not a static thing. Think of it like a garden, you have to tend to it constantly, preferably with love. You find weeds and pull them out, you water it, you sing to it and most of all you realize that the effort you put into you will make it flourish where if it is left unattended, it will turn into crap.

Then again, this is why I live alone.
 
2013-04-22 12:49:34 PM

hubiestubert: There aren't secrets. There aren't shortcuts. Be honest, be open, be yourself, and maybe, just maybe, you'll find someone who likes you for who you are, and is willing to put up with you when you're tired and cranky and feel like warmed over fish nuggets, all soggy and sodden. And maybe you'll find someone who inspires you to make them feel better when they are the same damn way.


Pfft, you and your, "logic" and "rational thought."  What do you think, that our fark partners are PEOPLE?!  They're ambulatory sex organs that occasionally supply money/sammiches!

Also your excellent points forgot to add, "don't suck as a person."
 
2013-04-22 12:50:07 PM
forshiggles.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-22 12:52:21 PM

Magnanimous_J: Warning: The following post contains sweeping generalizations.

Every single man I know has at least one hobby or interest: Golf, playing basketball with his friends, fishing, RPGs, woodworking, homebrewing, motorcycle riding, collecting obscure European pornography, whatever. Far fewer women I know have hobbies. The ones that do, tend to be older. I blame Cosmo and Sex and the City. That entire lifestyle is to consume and have novel experiences and it's influenced a whole ge ...


Actually this helps feed the self help industry, which encourages women to go out and find out what pleases them by themselves, as nobody can love you if you don't love yourself.
 
2013-04-22 12:52:57 PM

namatad: gglibertine:

so
how many females do you know who fit his generalization?
how long do you put up with someone who fits his generalization?

or are you arguing that no one fits his generalization and he is just being a guy?


I don't hang around with anyone who acts like that, female or male. Off the top of my head, I can think of only one woman I know who exhibits those traits, and she is married to a guy I am no longer able to be friends with because she's a jealous psycho who can't get it through her head that if I wanted him, I'd have had him 25 years ago, the first time he made a pass at me. Also, I can't stand watching her snipe at him continuously. It reminds me of my parents, and anything that reminds me of my parents is to be avoided at all costs.

I can also think of a couple of men who are like that. Always playing mind games, trying to get you to guess what they want because they don't have the sack to just come out and say it, throwing out trick questions to see how you'll react because they're constantly looking for proof that there's something wrong with you, which only shows that they don't trust you, and why the hell would anyone want to be in a relationship with somebody who doesn't trust them? fark that noise.

You can spend your life looking for proof that "women are like this" or "men are like that", and you'll find plenty of it, because farking *people* are like that. Or you can let go of your preconceptions, sit back, observe individuals, and get to know who *they* are, and decide whether they're worth putting up with. Yes, you'll find patterns, because we live in societies and thus tend to be socialized in certain ways, for better or for worse -- but as soon as you make one into a label, you're right back where you started, waiting for everyone's inner ugliness to reveal itself, never able to simply enjoy someone for who they are.

And for god's sake, if someone pulls some kind of BS on you, CALL them on it, don't just whine to the internet about how "women are like this" or "men are like that". farking crybabies. TALK. COMMUNICATE. IT WON'T KILL YOU.

/why yes, I am exceptionally cranky today, why do you ask?
 
2013-04-22 12:56:52 PM
Back to the Loch with you, Nessie!
 
2013-04-22 12:59:13 PM

gglibertine: And for god's sake, if someone pulls some kind of BS on you, CALL them on it, don't just whine to the internet about how "women are like this" or "men are like that". farking crybabies. TALK. COMMUNICATE. IT WON'T KILL YOU.


There can be (not saying it affects all people) fundamental differences in the way two people communicate, that just degenerate into arguments and assumed malice even where both actually had the best of intentions. The (very stereotyped) example I gave above does seem to be something of a constant and talking about it makes things better for maybe a week or two (in my experience).

In general I agree though - talk, don't just put up with stuff, men and women are more similar than they are different, and anyone that plays mind games (regardless of gender) should really be discarded, they'll just create more drama than they're worth.
 
2013-04-22 01:03:07 PM

WeenerGord: Oblio13: Advice to young men: The most spoiled and privileged women in the world are also the most whiney and entitled. Before you settle down, visit some other countries and meet a few whose factory default isn't "alimony bomb looking for a place to go off".

Like where, exactly? Like Thailand?

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

Asian women just delay the emasculation until after the birth of a child. And the Visa, or green card. And all your money.

/what else ya got?


Well, I have no intention of having kids or getting married and I have no money.

I think I can see where you are going wrong. Thailand is lots of fun. The economics of a relationship are different out there. If you put kids, marriage and money on the table they will just see you as a sucker. It would be like having a family car for sale and someone coming round and saying "I can give you a million for it but I won`t go any higher, I don`t want to be ripped off"

Your first thought would be "sucker"

Your second thought would be "I wonder how may other suckers there are out there, I should go where this guy is from and then get rid of him for a bigger sucker"
 
2013-04-22 01:04:19 PM

CeroX: Ok... so in reality, this idiot has written a counter piece to a story that apparently claims men's needs are simple, that all they want is a warm fleshy teddy bear that they can f- whenever and doesn't complain when they f- other fleshy teddy bears when he feels like. And I believe she is trying to say men are more complicated than that... but then decides to inject her own thought on what men want, which is even dumber than the article she is pissed about...

Sounds like this "journalist" doesn't like a male telling her what she should think about what men want... or some shiat...

Here's some advice Tracy Moore > How's about you stop caring what "all men want" and worry about what YOU want... Which by her 20 steps, is apparently a Eunuch...


It sounds to me like she's trying to say that that sounds absolutely heavenly for the man, but that a relationship is a two-way street, and the woman in that relationship isn't getting a lot out of it. What Dr.Sheck suggests sounds less like a girlfriend and equal partner than a mother and caretaker.
 
2013-04-22 01:05:49 PM

WhippingBoy: Imagine what would happen if one day, all of a sudden, men stopped putting up with all of this shiat.


I guess the world would either turn into an episode of "Father Knows Best" or into a Village People video. I don't know which, but I'm not sure if I want to find out.
 
2013-04-22 01:06:06 PM

gglibertine: And for god's sake, if someone pulls some kind of BS on you, CALL them on it, don't just whine to the internet about how "women are like this" or "men are like that". farking crybabies. TALK. COMMUNICATE. IT WON'T KILL YOU.

/why yes, I am exceptionally cranky today, why do you ask?


1) doesnt sound cranky, sounds rational
2) sounds like the same thing that most guys are trying to say.
3) everyone on the planet would be happier if we followed your advice

the hard thing as a young and stupid person was learning that lesson.
WHY spend ANY time with someone like that?
The only reason that they act like that is because someone will put up with their shiat.

Sure, we all have bad days and the need to vent/detox.
But when it is every day at your job? QUIT! SUE THEM! SOMETHING
But why the fark should we have to suffer through this hell that you are unwilling to fix/change? fark that noise.

/shunning bad people has made my life worth living again.
 
2013-04-22 01:18:40 PM

Clemkadidlefark: [www.dumpaday.com image 620x434]


It sounds better in Southern:

Bless her poor, dear sweet heart...
 
2013-04-22 01:21:13 PM

captjc: WhippingBoy: Imagine what would happen if one day, all of a sudden, men stopped putting up with all of this shiat.

I guess the world would either turn into an episode of "Father Knows Best" or into a Village People video. I don't know which, but I'm not sure if I want to find out.


Remember that episode of Seinfeld where George becomes a genius because he wasn't focusing on sex all day?
 
2013-04-22 01:24:48 PM

Owangotang: I get told ALL the time I'm supposed to listen to nonsensical ranting without giving the slightest hint of offering a solution.

fark that.


You know what that is from? And ladies don't take this as being a bad thing, as i consider this a "work-in-progress" situation of our current society...

It is both natural instinct for women to seek a solution to a problem from their man because [inset anthropological evidence here about gender roles for the last 100,000 years] and for a man to want to fix that solution [same evidence].

But feminism came along and taught women not to depend on men to take care of them (the message didn't include "unless you want them to"). So by offering a solution, as we are almost programmed to do, we are perpetuating that they need us to fix their problems. So this is part of a new conflict of interests as i observe it.

Now, this might come across like i'm speaking ill of feminism or women, and i'm not, this is just an observation... My contention would be that this situation is a work-in-process in which i think in order to move past this, women should stop auto-rejecting the man's solution out of contempt or habit, and understand that we offer this because we care and it's a natural instinct to solve your problems. Does that mean we need to to depend on us? no, it just means we are base and follow base instincts without some training. As i see it there are some ways to improve this situation.

1. Don't come to us with your problems unless we ask about them: This sounds crass, but really this is about getting women to solve these issues in their own way. As an independent woman, going to a man for your problems is inviting a man to try and fix them for you. Equality works both ways, and that means not dragging us into situations that will be in conflict with your independent female spirit. Stand on your own or admit that you want help with a solution. If you are just venting, start a diary.

2. Ask yourself if what you are about to talk to a man about is a problem that needs fixing because that's the answer you are going to get. If you don't want your man to give you a solution to a problem that doesn't need fixing, then don't make it out to be like a problem you need a fix for... Part of breaking away from being dependent on men is knowing what problems you need fixed, which ones you can fix on your own, and admitting when you need the help of someone else.

3. Don't blame a man for trying to fix it: It's what we do, because if you are stressed, frustrated, angry, or there is a problem in your life, and we care about you, then we want to fix it for you so you will be happy again. Your frustration worries us, and just you being upset triggers a response in us to want to make it better because a happy family is a healthy family. If you aren't happy about something, the relationship is in an unhealthy state. An unhealthy relationship state is a risk factor for the relationship to take a turn for the worse and possibly end. So our instinct to fix your problems means a happier, healthier relationship for BOTH of us.

i'm sure there's other ways, but i'm sure i've already said enough to warrant pitchforks and torches as it is...

And, just to cover all the bases:
If your the type of woman who fixes her own problems and doesn't find herself in these situations, then simply ignore my advice and go about your business, as this doesn't apply to you... it applies to those other women who find themselves endlessly frustrated at men and don't know why...
 
2013-04-22 01:26:13 PM
On a less aggro note, here's how I deal with the end-of-the-day situation unless I am actually in genuine hysterics or something, which really doesn't happen very often.

Given that:

1. I know we're both tired and cranky and just want to relax.
2. I know we both probably have something we want to talk about.
3. I know I will probably talk more than he will.
4. I know he'll have a hard time listening while he's stewing about his own stuff.
5. I know I'm pretty good at taking a deep breath and setting things aside for a while.

I ask him to put on some music, because I know he's proud of his record collection and will choose something we both enjoy. I get us both something to drink, because I don't mind doing it and he needs time to choose a record. I settle down on the couch with him and get comfy.

I ask him how his day was, and I actually listen and respond appropriately. This gives me time to cool down while I focus on something other than what's got me pissed off, so I won't just go off like a madwoman. I give him a hug if he needs one. I tell him how awesome he is if he did something he's proud of. Everybody likes compliments, and I actually do think he's awesome, so that works out pretty well.

When he's done talking, he asks about my day, and I tell him. He actually listens, and responds appropriately. He gives me a hug if I need one. He tells me how awesome I am, whether I was awesome that day or not, because he's always showering me with compliments -- actually I kind of wish he'd do a little less of it, but I'm hardly going to complain about getting too many compliments.

Once we've had some snuggle time and gotten the day out of our systems, we talk about what we want to do for the evening.

Yes, I know this sounds very Ward and June Cleaver, which is pretty hilarious, really, considering I'm one of the least girly-girls you'll ever meet. And no, I don't do it that way because I feel like I have to, or because I think men should come first, or for any of the reasons you're thinking.  I do it because I have thought about what we both want at the end of the day, and I have applied common sense to determine the most efficient way for both of us to get what we want.

Sometimes the "traditional" way things are done is traditional for a good reason. Then again, we're all different. YMMV. You'll have to figure out for yourself what works for you.
 
2013-04-22 01:35:38 PM
gglibertine:

I ask him how his day was, and I actually listen and respond appropriately. This gives me time to cool down while I focus on something other than what's got me pissed off, so I won't just go off like a madwoman. I give him a hug if he needs one. I tell him how awesome he is if he did something he's proud of. Everybody likes compliments, and I actually do think he's awesome, so that works out pretty well.

When he's done talking, he asks about my day, and I tell him. He actually listens, and responds appropriately. He gives me a hug if I need one. He tells me how awesome I am, whether I was awesome that day or not, because he's always showering me with compliments -- actually I kind of wish he'd do a little less of it, but I'm hardly going to complain about getting too many compliments.

Once we've had some snuggle time and gotten the day out of our systems, we talk about what we want to do for the evening.

Yes, I know this sounds very Ward and June Cleaver, which is pretty hilarious, really, considering I'm one of the least girly-girls you'll ever meet. And no, I don't do it that way because I feel like I have to, or because I think men should come first, or for any of ...


This is what most of the commentors on the article want, really.
They may want it in reverse order, which doesn't always work; but the acknowledgement that both people have stress, and both people in a relationship want to de-stress/unwind after any/each day is their main point against the original article by psychologist dude.
 
2013-04-22 01:41:12 PM

CeroX: But feminism came along and taught women not to depend on men to take care of them (the message didn't include "unless you want them to"). So by offering a solution, as we are almost programmed to do, we are perpetuating that they need us to fix their problems. So this is part of a new conflict of interests as i observe it.


I very much disagree with this. I don't think it's a taught behaviour any more than you offering solutions is a taught behaviour. It presupposes that a solution is wanted to the situation, which it isn't (IMHO).
They (the type of woman that gets annoyed at men offering fixes to problems) wouldn't want a solution from their girlfriends either. They just want to vent for a while and have someone sympathise.
 
2013-04-22 01:41:34 PM

fluffy2097: Owangotang: I get told ALL the time I'm supposed to listen to nonsensical ranting without giving the slightest hint of offering a solution.

fark that.

You don't have to listen to the content. Just the most vauge overaching concept.

See, When they rant like that you can exhaust them by saying nothing more then "uh-huh" "yup, I agree" and " That's terrible!" at the right moments

You only have to listen hard enough that you can put each of those 3 statements in the correct verbal pauses. It's not hard.

The trick is if they start to suspect you're doing it, they'll ask you a question. If one of their sentences ends with an upward inflection and you can't give the proper "I agree with what you've been talking about", you're farked.


Oh yea, I think that whole routine is now inborn with males. Seriously, we all think of evolution as losing tails or growing beaks or some shiat but some day in the future an anthropologist will say, "...and this is when male homo sapiens began displaying signs of an instinctive ability to listen to the tone of a woman's speech and not the actual content."

Of course, women responded shortly afterwards by ranting in IM, email, and text form.
 
2013-04-22 01:45:35 PM

Owangotang: I get told ALL the time I'm supposed to listen to nonsensical ranting without giving the slightest hint of offering a solution.


Actually, people (male or female) do want solutions to their problems. The only thing here is, you're offering a solution to the wrong problem.

The actual problem is not, in fact, that the person at work is a biatch. That might be the subject of the rant, but it's not the actual problem. The key is to figure out what the real problem is (which might be as simple as "I feel rejected") and solve that problem.

A few possible problems:
1. I feel rejected and lonely.
2. I am in a stressful situation at work that I can neither avoid nor ignore.
3. I think I am devalued in this relationship.
4. ...whatever is specific to the people in question

That's the problem you have to identify and solve. The ranting about the biatch at work is just a symptom. That's true with a lot of problems, actually.

Look at something more straightforward: your car is making a high-pitched whining noise in the engine compartment and it changes with engine speed. Is that noise the problem? No, it's a symptom of the real problem. If you were just focusing on the symptoms, you'd consider better soundproofing, which would work nicely until your alternator died.

Relationships are the same way. You need to figure out what the real problem is and fix that, not the symptoms of the problem. The problem might very well be that you're in a relationship with this person in the first place. If that's it, you're both going to be unhappy, and you're not going to be able to fix it; you both need to find someone who can meet all your needs, because the person you're with is not them. And you should have figured this out very early on.
 
2013-04-22 01:46:07 PM

spiderpaz: Uchiha_Cycliste: Anyways, I stand by me and my girlfriend... equality.
Interestingly, we came to our equality views independently which I think is a really important thing.. it meant I wasn't just proclaiming similar ideas because I wanted to be closer to her. There are many views, ideas and feelings that I have co-opted from her, and likewise her from me. But this one; we both realized early on both that it was an important idea and it was something worth trying our damndest to reinforce.
while we've only been dating for a year, I've been asking her out for 15 years and we've been best friends for 25 =3

[global3.memecdn.com image 540x731]


yet you cared enough to let me know you don't care... curious =3
 
2013-04-22 01:47:21 PM
Too many men are realizing all they need is a dog for companionship, a small apartment, and great porn/bar slut/hooker for anything else. Selling yourself for a woman isn't worth it anymore.
 
2013-04-22 01:52:50 PM

miss diminutive: That article was a colossal clusterfark of stupid. Plus, it wasn't funny.

How about we just call a truce in the whole battle of the sexes thing?


If we did that, Jezebel, Cosmo, and the entire edifice of Crapology they support would crumble to the ground. We would have to deal with thousands of hostile, whinybiatchy soi-disant "feminists" and their many sycophantic followers, no longer able to satisfy themselves with their all-girl "man bad" jirque-du-cirque. Cities would go up in flames. Society would crumble, Humanity would go extinct.

Funny thing, though, that whole "safe space" bit is almost entirely what my wife wants in our relationship. We tend to mesh well, she and I, but she also has very little tolerance for whinybiatchy women (or men, for that matter). She has had so many people decide that she's no longer their BFF after she hears just enough of them complaining about their lives. She then commits the ultimate faux pas: "If all you're going to do about it is complain, don't complain to me." At that point, they don' wan' be her frien' no mo.

I love my wife. She's about the closes to a zero-bullshiat human being I've ever met.
 
2013-04-22 02:01:37 PM
As a person with a penis, I'm really getting a kick out of these replies
 
2013-04-22 02:01:39 PM

Owangotang: ...
Oh yea, I think that whole routine is now inborn with males. Seriously, we all think of evolution as losing tails or growing beaks or some shiat but some day in the future an anthropologist will say, "...and this is when male homo sapiens began displaying signs of an instinctive ability to listen to the tone of a woman's speech and not the actual content."

Of course, women responded shortly afterwards by ranting in IM, email, and text form.


You haven't sorted that out yet?  It's like a p*ssed off mad libs.  Pick 2 random adjectives, a violent act and the subject of the im/email/text and throw them in an angry context.  If you sound insane, she'll assume you've discovered a new realm of rage and are having a stroke.

You tell that fluffy orange teacher I'll drive him into the ground.
I'd punch that short talkative woman you work with.

/have gotten "LOL, she's tall" in a text before.
 
2013-04-22 02:01:40 PM

Worldwalker: Look at something more straightforward: your car is making a high-pitched whining noise in the engine compartment and it changes with engine speed. Is that noise the problem? No, it's a symptom of the real problem. If you were just focusing on the symptoms, you'd consider better soundproofing, which would work nicely until your alternator died.


Okay, but when I bring my car to the mechanic it doesn't take me 20 minutes to tell him the symptom of the problem.
 
2013-04-22 02:06:15 PM

Yanks_RSJ: Worldwalker: Look at something more straightforward: your car is making a high-pitched whining noise in the engine compartment and it changes with engine speed. Is that noise the problem? No, it's a symptom of the real problem. If you were just focusing on the symptoms, you'd consider better soundproofing, which would work nicely until your alternator died.

Okay, but when I bring my car to the mechanic it doesn't take me 20 minutes to tell him the symptom of the problem.


My point is, the 20 minutes of talking is the symptom. Too many people mistake it for the actual problem, but it's not; it's only a symptom of whatever the real problem is.
 
2013-04-22 02:12:09 PM
I just read the craziest article. It was so crazy, that half of it was quotes and context from some other crazy article. I feel dumber squared from having read that.

/dumber^2?
 
2013-04-22 02:12:43 PM

Worldwalker: My point is, the 20 minutes of talking is the symptom. Too many people mistake it for the actual problem, but it's not; it's only a symptom of whatever the real problem is.


Is it so hard to be an adult and actually SAY what the problem is?  If I have a problem, I know what that is and I say it.  Each of the examples you gave in a previous post are issues that can be easily dealt with once they are on the table.  None of them require 20 minutes of utter nonsense from the one person who already KNOWS what the problem is and refuses to address it directly.
 
2013-04-22 02:12:51 PM

namatad: dustygrimp: Current biggest pet peeve with regard to communication is that I hate getting answers to questions I haven't asked.

Me: What do you want for dinner?
Her: If you want to make that chicken we bought the other day I can find something else.
Me: Ok.  What do you want for dinner?
Her: It doesn't matter.  You can have the chicken.

Please, just answer the question I asked, not the question you think I am asking.

hahahaha
me: where do you want to go for dinner
her: I dont care, you pick
me: mexican it is
her 10 years later: oh my god you always made me go to that mexican place
me: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


her:  find some recipes so we can go to the grocery store
me:  (looks in cookbooks for 15 minutes, comes up with 5 choice recipes) ok wife, these 5 recipes look good, I was thinking about going with a, b and c
her: I don't like any of those

weeks later

her: want to pick out some recipes before we go to the grocery store?
me: sure thing, these recipes (d, f, g) look good
her: I don't want those

weeks later

her: going to the grocery store, let's find some recipes
me: every time I spend 15 minutes finding recipes you decide that you don't like my choices, so I have no ideas for recipes
her: you're so indecisive

___________________________

her:  where do you want to go out and eat at?
me: I'd like some thai food
her: no I don't want that
me: ok what about mediterranean?
her: not that either
we finally settle on something (no clue how)

weeks or months later
her:  where do you want to go out to eat?
me: I don't care, you can decide
her: why are you always so indecisive?
me: because you ask me what I want, and then don't like what I decide...(in the dog house for a couple days)

cdn2.planetminecraft.com
 
2013-04-22 02:14:39 PM

INeedAName: In December my wife has a chance to South Africa for 2 weeks. She asked me if I wanted to tag along. I'm leaning towards no.

It's not that I don't love her, or want her around... but holy farking hell, some mother farking peace and quiet?!

I used to think I wanted to feel needed. Im tired of being needed. Being needed wears, just this  me the fark out!


http://www.voanews.com/content/south-africa-leads-world-in-rape-case s/ 1580500.html

Well SA is known as the rape capital of the world, so if she ever needed you, it might be this trip....so please go.
 
2013-04-22 02:17:32 PM

namatad: dustygrimp: Current biggest pet peeve with regard to communication is that I hate getting answers to questions I haven't asked.

Me: What do you want for dinner?
Her: If you want to make that chicken we bought the other day I can find something else.
Me: Ok.  What do you want for dinner?
Her: It doesn't matter.  You can have the chicken.

Please, just answer the question I asked, not the question you think I am asking.

hahahaha
me: where do you want to go for dinner
her: I dont care, you pick
me: mexican it is
her 10 years later: oh my god you always made me go to that mexican place
me: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


After long years of this exact thing, I finally figured it out. First of all, she thinks you can read her mind and thus already knows what she wants. She also assumes she can read you mind and knows what you want. So, to her, when you ask her to pick you are actually asking her to chose what (she thinks) she knows that you want. Because if you REALLY wanted to go where she wanted you would just do it. By reflecting the choice back to you she is expecting you to chose her preference instead of your own. This is a sort of test: if you chose what she wants (without her ever actually telling you what that is) then you are a kind, sensitive, loving man. If you don't and actually take her words "you choose" to mean you are free to actually chose what you want then you are completely insensitive and don't care about her wants, needs, and feelings. The idea that you can't read her mind, asked her what she wanted in order to get the acual information, and generally took all the words said by both parties at face value will simply never occur to her. You're a dick that mistreats her is all she'll take away.
 
2013-04-22 02:26:56 PM

rubi_con_man: For the women who complain that men don't listen to them or care about their internal feelings ... Please don't be surprised. Many of the traits that you want from men - the traits that get them laid - are the traits that require detachment and callousness. Get your fourteen year old daughters to cherish being sensitive, patient and caring. Get them to invest their dating and romantic lives and their first sexual encounters to the squeamish, uncertain, uncomfortable boy with zits and glasses in preference to the early-peaking captain of the football team who wins status by dominating others uncaringly.

Most men ape - and then become - thesebecause they see that it's a route to the main form of success that even beta males aspire to - sex. Once a supply of sex is secure, men - especially young men - can grow immensely. Without it- without the approval and support of one lover - growth is tremendously difficult, and basically is composed of lurching from pretended behavior to pretended behavior.

As a young man, this is part of the reason that "just be yourself" was vexing. "just myself" clearly wasn't getting laid or accepted. Why the hell would I want to be that loser? Hey, you know what works? Calling girls biatches and beating up those weaker than myself!


THIS. I never had an ounce of success with women until I learned that I had to be pushy, violate boundaries, and generally act like a prick. If being polite and gentle worked, that's what I would have learned to do. Women have no one but themselves to blame if men don't behave the way theyare imagine they'd like them to.
 
2013-04-22 02:33:02 PM
I love my husband more and more everyday.

Yesterday, I exercised my cooking, baking, cleaning and laundry muscles. Then I took a sewing class and made a pillow. He can put his feet on it when he puts them up on the coffee table. Tonight, we're going to a dance class (not my request, its an elective for his school). I pick up all of his socks and laundry and wash them to specifications. Never ruined any of his clothes. I don't talk to him about any problem that I don't actually want to solve. I "save the drama for my mama" as someone previously mentioned. She wants to talk about catty biatches in her church, I'll complain about the work ones I deal with... all is well. Best of all, despite being differently able in the morning - I'd rather never speak to anyone until about 9:30am, whereas he's a torrent of chatter in the morning - we can still carpool, because he is able to STFU in the morning and in return, I do not talk his ear off on the way home.

I didn't read the article, but I know that everything I am and everything I'll ever be is contrary to Jezzebel's purpose of demonizing men and dogging them hardcore. I have a great career going for myself and I know that the Feminists of Yore are the reason I've had the opportunity to accomplish as much as I have, because, like my mom before me, we've gone into male-dominated careers and succeeded without discrimination, but personally, I've never hated nor have I had any reason to talk shiat about my husband to anyone. On most Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays, I'll go with him to his soccer games and I'll yell myself hoarse at him and his teammates (all positive), I scheduled my next sewing classes around his soccer schedule. I like to support him and he likes that I do my own thing whenever. I try to be low key and I try to fit in with our friends (who are mostly single/somewhat attached guys and their girlfriends).

Mostly, I just cook/bake, take care of the dogs, clean, make him laugh and try to look presentable. My husband says its why he married a Minnesotan.
 
2013-04-22 02:34:45 PM
I've figured it out. Jezebel is the "Cosmo" for ugly women. The standard Cosmo "1001 Ways To Drive Your Man Crazy" articles hold no meaning to Jezebel readers because a) they're bitter and lonely and don't actually "have" a man OR b) their "boyfriends" don't actually like being touched by women, so they flock to Jezebel in order to validate their belief that  the reason they are bitter and lonely is solely because of the evil Menz.

Think about it. It makes perfect sense.
 
2013-04-22 02:37:50 PM
rumpelstiltskin:

 the sewing circle in HR...


Gold.  Comedy gold.
 
2013-04-22 02:39:17 PM

dragonchild: Please pardon me if I like my essay on gender roles better.


Nice essay. You raise some interesting points; things I agree with but haven't really thought about before.

Cheers!
 
2013-04-22 02:41:25 PM

dittybopper: darkjezter: Dafuq did I just read?

Just nod your head, say "Yes, Honey" and "Uh-huh" at appropriate times while just mostly tuning it out, because life is too short to listen to that shiat all the time, and life is too short to say "life is to short to listen to that shiat all the time".  So just act like you care that some random person didn't say exactly the right at the right time to your wife, constituting a World-shattering snub of *EPIC* proportions that is the worst thing *EVAR*, until of course the next minor thing that straight men would totally ignore happens and supersedes it in importance.


*blink blink*      Uh-huh.
 
2013-04-22 02:42:35 PM

Yanks_RSJ: Worldwalker: My point is, the 20 minutes of talking is the symptom. Too many people mistake it for the actual problem, but it's not; it's only a symptom of whatever the real problem is.

Is it so hard to be an adult and actually SAY what the problem is?  If I have a problem, I know what that is and I say it.  Each of the examples you gave in a previous post are issues that can be easily dealt with once they are on the table.  None of them require 20 minutes of utter nonsense from the one person who already KNOWS what the problem is and refuses to address it directly.


The big catch is that "the one person who already KNOWS what the problem is" very well might not know. A lot of people aren't very introspective. They missed out on the whole "know thyself' thing entirely. They don't even know what their actual problem is. They may think, on an intellectual level, that the biatch at work is the problem -- but none of the proposed solutions "feel" right because they're solutions to the wrong problem. This leads to frustration, and bigger problems.

Also, remember that a lot of women are taught from toddlerhood not to "actually say what the problem is." They're taught, actively told by their own mothers, to be indirect about everything, just like they're taught that boys don't like smart girls, and being liked by boys is the most important thing in the world. We're taught never to say something directly, but to present it so that the other person (especially if it's a male person) thinks it's their idea, not ours. If we do express something more directly, it must be couched in the form of feelings, not facts or even sound opinions. This is parental conditioning that goes as deep, and is as hard to eradicate, as more positive things like "don't hit people" or "don't steal." Of course, this isn't true for everyone. And even when it is, it doesn't always stick. I've never been very good at that, which gives me an interesting outsider's perspective on the whole thing. I see it all around me, and I grew up knowing that I was supposed to talk that way. But it is the case for a lot of women, and it's an attitude that is absorbed at such an early age, and so deeply, that the person in question probably doesn't even realize it's there. So even if they can recognize what the actual problem is, they've been taught not to express it.

Yeah, it's dysfunctional in the extreme. It's a lousy way to run a relationship. It's a good way to ruin a relationship. But it's how things are, even if it's not how things should be, and a good first step to putting an end to it is for the person who wants to solve the problem to analyze what the actual problem is, and address that.

Either that, or learn to put up with 20 minutes of complaining about the biatch at work.
 
2013-04-22 02:44:13 PM

Fausts Fist: crab66: ko_kyi: I am happy to deal with life's stresses together.

I am unhappy to deal with constantly manufactured stresses that could have been avoided with a tiny bit of thought, consideration, etc.

Reminds me of my sister. How her husband puts up with that crap....I will never know.

Where is your sister on the hot/crazy scale? Because I honestly believe - and have empiric evidence by watching the realtionships of nearly every one of my acquaintances - that this is a real thing.


Maybe his sister is Candy Lee.  She's got tits like howitzers.
 
2013-04-22 02:49:21 PM

Wicked Chinchilla: INeedAName: In December my wife has a chance to South Africa for 2 weeks. She asked me if I wanted to tag along. I'm leaning towards no.

It's not that I don't love her, or want her around... but holy farking hell, some mother farking peace and quiet?!

I used to think I wanted to feel needed. Im tired of being needed. Being needed wears me the fark out!

You should go.  I get your need for peace and quiet, but South Africa is really, really, really beautiful.  That would be one hell of a trip to miss out on.  Plus, if she is going for something work related, you would still get peace and quiet while she is going through the trip obligations.


Listen to this advice.  If you don't go and participate in a trip of a lifetime for her (which I assume this may be), this will do unpleasant things to your relationship.  Get that peace and quiet another time. Take the trip because it is a hellavu trip AND because if she takes it by herself, she's going to take that personally.  A marriage is for sharing life experiences not just tax deductions.  This is a big one.
 
2013-04-22 02:59:21 PM

Cato: After long years of this exact thing, I finally figured it out. First of all, she thinks you can read her mind and thus already knows what she wants. She also assumes she can read you mind and knows what you want. So, to her, when you ask her to pick you are actually asking her to chose what (she thinks) she knows that you want. Because if you REALLY wanted to go where she wanted you would just do it. By reflecting the choice back to you she is expecting you to chose her preference instead of your own. This is a sort of test: if you chose what she wants (without her ever actually telling you what that is) then you are a kind, sensitive, loving man. If you don't and actually take her words "you choose" to mean you are free to actually chose what you want then you are completely insensitive and don't care about her wants, needs, and feelings. The idea that you can't read her mind, asked her what she wanted in order to get the acual information, and generally took all the words said by both parties at face value will simply never occur to her. You're a dick that mistreats her is all she'll take away.


I always thought it was a little more simple than that.  3 weeks while you were on the way to her friend's wedding she dragged you to--and you were distracted fighting traffic trying to make up for the time she spent doing and redoing her hair--you drove past a restaurant and she said "oh I've always wanted to try that place".  Now she's quizzing you to see if you were actually listening to her instead of focusing on making it to your event on time without dying in a 75mph fireball.
 
2013-04-22 02:59:23 PM

Kahabut: bdub77: Men want to do whatever the f*ck they want to do, most of which includes shooting and harassing people on Xbox Live and none of which includes listening to a woman talk.

It's always nice when one of the local warrior/children comes out and confirms essentially exactly what the crazy lady was talking about.

Unfortunately, she wasn't 100% wrong.


I always love it when I see someone on the internet who doesn't understand the concept of sarcasm.
 
2013-04-22 03:01:26 PM
I used to work 12 and 14 hour days. Sometimes I worked a second job between 1 am and 6 am and then had to be at my main job by 8:00 am.

I was always driving. Frequently I had to contend with idiot bosses and sullen employees. Most of the time I was dead tired.

My g/f had problems with my not being able to see her all the time or not picking up on little cues she'd drop. Yet, she knew I worked a lot when she met me.

She used to pull all sorts of things to get my attention -- and make me jealous. It drove me insane. I'd get called up at midnight when she was drunk and crying and threatening suicide and go over and settle things down. Then her ex-boyfriend was starting to hang around. She couldn't pay her rent. Her and her lady buddies would go out and party periodically during the week. Someone was stalking her and I'd have to get up, drive over to her place and prowl the neighborhood. She was broke and needed money. She was sick and needed money.
Women have this nearly magical way of changing their appearances so that they can go from cute to nearly ethereal. I found it fascinating when she'd show up.

I listened to her problems, complaints and opinions and solved what I could when all I wanted to do was get some much needed sleep. If I got sick, she'd vanish. None of that caring coddling she used to tell me she did for her last B/F.

In bed she was great. Her actions went a long way to recharge my batteries and her beauty in the soft lights was spectacular.

However, it eventually reached the point that I was getting exhausted trying to work and handle her problems and attention getting plays at the same time.

BTW. She couldn't cook worth a hoot. I used to cook professionally, so I did most of the cooking for us when we ate together.

You kind of get the hint when you're chatting with her after a round of amazing sex, about problems affecting you, and her eyes go out of focus, her face goes somewhat slack but she becomes all animated and attentive when you talk about her good points.

So the article isn't exactly true. Guys will walk through hell for a woman they care about and there are many women out there who just don't want to KNOW that much about their guy -- just so long as he keeps flattering her ego, stays healthy and throws a lot of money her way.
 
2013-04-22 03:02:03 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: TFA: A man is like an appliance. No. No, let's try that again. See. A man is like a rugged, fierce warrior. Or, maybe. Hmmm. A man is still like a child.

This tells you everything you need to know about how she really views men and how she expects her readers to view them: useful objects, objects of derision, children.


...This is Fark. You have a username, and presumably you know how to post. How the fark do you not know what 'sarcasm' is and that the writer is, in fact,  mocking the point of view they are pretending to emulate?
 
2013-04-22 03:03:06 PM
I couldn't read past the first couple of paragraphs. What a biatch.
 
2013-04-22 03:03:58 PM

PsiChick: How the fark do you not know what 'sarcasm' is and that the writer is, in fact,  mocking the point of view they are pretending to emulate?


In his defence, it is Jezebel we're talking about here.
 
2013-04-22 03:09:12 PM

Quinsisdos: PsiChick: How the fark do you not know what 'sarcasm' is and that the writer is, in fact,  mocking the point of view they are pretending to emulate?

In his defence, it is Jezebel we're talking about here.


Does Jezebel have some sort of reading-comprehension-fail link? Because I think I clicked a different one than most of the thread. I actually understood it was sarcastic, to start with.
 
2013-04-22 03:19:34 PM

PsiChick: Quinsisdos: PsiChick: How the fark do you not know what 'sarcasm' is and that the writer is, in fact,  mocking the point of view they are pretending to emulate?

In his defence, it is Jezebel we're talking about here.

Does Jezebel have some sort of reading-comprehension-fail link? Because I think I clicked a different one than most of the thread. I actually understood it was sarcastic, to start with.


No offense, but you've proven time and time again that you're not the sharpest tool in the shed...
 
2013-04-22 03:25:32 PM

WhippingBoy: PsiChick: [stopped reading]


anyone else see this as a particularly amusing battle of the sexes?

/gurls are smrt
//men aren't mind readers
///Anyone with me on the pun?
//slash
 
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