If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(USA Today)   Boston Bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is awake and responding to questions via writing   (usatoday.com) divider line 177
    More: Followup, Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, Boston, Michael McCaul, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Massachusetts State Police, Boston Police, law enforcement officials  
•       •       •

18430 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 9:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-04-21 10:41:26 PM  
25 votes:
Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice what I preach, even in the shiat.
2013-04-21 08:46:00 PM  
15 votes:
it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.
2013-04-21 09:03:41 PM  
12 votes:

Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.


I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.
2013-04-21 09:19:19 PM  
7 votes:
Do you wish you'd just stuck to smoking weed and playing soldier on Xbox? (Check one)

[ ] Yes
[ ] No
2013-04-21 09:48:45 PM  
6 votes:
My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 08:49:56 PM  
6 votes:
BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).
2013-04-21 11:55:34 PM  
5 votes:
If you are a proud American you should be very much demanding that this person is placed on public trial and treated exactly according to the law, that you can all see him held to account for what he did.

Anything else IS un-american, if that term has any meaning at all. You are supposed to be BETTER than these guys.
2013-04-21 11:04:35 PM  
4 votes:
Xypho:Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


THIS. If I could, I would shake your hand, Sir.. That sums up EXACTLY what I feel, especially after reading a lot of these "lynch mob mentality" posts.
/Lost my MOM on 9/11
//Didnt want blood
2013-04-21 10:11:29 PM  
4 votes:

El Supe: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.


You gotta love how some people are like "America is the greatest country in the world!" until it comes to being scared, then they're like "Our laws shouldn't apply when we're afraid!"
2013-04-21 09:29:44 PM  
4 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.


That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.
2013-04-21 08:48:32 PM  
4 votes:
He just drew a picture of Kevin Spacey.
2013-04-21 08:47:57 PM  
4 votes:
At the very least, it sounds like his self-inflicted wound (along with, I presume, a couple of inflicted ones here or there) will be nagging, painful injuries for years to come.  Just like the people who he hurt.  It's not perfect, but it's a start.
2013-04-22 01:03:59 AM  
3 votes:

Tatterdemalian: Tatsuma: But to willfully torture and inflict pain as revenge? You might call that justice, I call that barbarism.

Same here. Torture should only be used when there is important information that needs to be extracted from those unwilling to surrender it. Using it for revenge is worse than useless, at least for a democratic society.

/not that a democratic society is exactly the goal of the current US leadership
//a "controllable" society, yes, maybe one that can be made as free as possible while retaining absolute control over any dissent


Torture should never be used.  It has never and still does not work.  On the other hand, it gives a great deal of ammo to your opponents.
2013-04-22 12:42:51 AM  
3 votes:

doglover: The overwhelming majority of terrorists are Muslims.


Except when Reagan is arming and funding them. Then they're freedom fighters, right?
2013-04-22 12:28:27 AM  
3 votes:
Actually, everyone should be sad for these guys. They're so weak-minded that they either (1) got used by someone else, or (2) were so dumb that they didn't have a plan to get away, or (3) both.

The problem now is that, after knowing what we know about these guys, it's more likely that this was an operational test. That's sort of unfortunate.
2013-04-22 12:06:14 AM  
3 votes:

rufus-t-firefly: The Stealth Hippopotamus: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.

That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.


Not only that, but this group also is the loudest to proclaim moral superiority and godliness.

Morals and values only count when you do them when the choice is hard.  It is easy when you have a $1,000 dollars in the bank and a steady income to not steal needed items.  WHen you are dead broke, with hungry kids and no prospects, it because harder to resist that temptation to go against the values and morals you trumpet.

Just like in this case.  I want justice.  I want revenge.  But that is tempered with the fact that I value what I was taught as to what makes us different.  We are not supposed to torture people or punish them without due process.  I understand that terrible nature of what this person seems to have done.  But if don't stick to our values or morals when it is hardest for us to do so, those values and morals have no meaning.

Let the process work.  Treat this guy with the legal deference we all would want should we be accused of a crime. Because if we can do it when it is hardest for us to do so, then we really do set the example and we do become the city on the hill that some have claimed us to be.
2013-04-21 11:51:52 PM  
3 votes:
Uh, people, can we chill with the whole 'let's hope he's raped and tortured!' thing?

I mean, I would have been the first one to nod and say 'well done' if he'd been on the receiving end of a buckshot to the groin during the firefight, but now the guy is in custody and well there are rights in this country, and laws, and things that can be done.

Prison rape is not a tool that should ever be cheered for, and torture should never be advocated, especially not against citizens on American soil

So, uh, yeah cut that shiat out please. I understand the sentiment but keep it to yourselves
2013-04-21 11:51:04 PM  
3 votes:

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Thanks for writing that.  Much better then what I was planning to write the idiots that want to destroy our Constitution, laws, and morals to sate their blood lust.
2013-04-21 11:14:21 PM  
3 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


So he can be sent to Gitmo. Because Jesus. And the Constitution. No citizenship means no trial, and thus we can all sleep safer. Because trials will only make us less safe. And he can't be sent to prison, because...terrorism. And Jesus. We can only send God Fearing Christians to prison, because if you send a Muslim to prison, they just grow more powerful, and thus, to avoid a Super Muslim power level. What stymies us is that so many people turn to Islam while in prison, but luckily, by feeding them Pork'N Beans secretly, we can bleed off the Muslim Prison Effect. And because then we can just deport him, after we leave him in Gitmo for a few decades, and...and...oh feck it...

Yeah. It doesn't really matter. For criminal purposes, even non-citizens have the same rights. Administratively, that is a slightly different matter, for staying in the country, and essentially, it is a move by the pants besh*tted who lack any faith in our judicial system, and who imagine that our courts would be just sullied by trying folks who did bad things. Or have vivid imaginations about what folks could do to a prisoner without any citizenship and some very dark fantasies. Non-citizens may not be allowed to see all the evidence against them, and that is an exception that was made sort of recently.

I find it interesting that folks who have screamed loud and long about the Second Amendment, seem to really dislike the First, and now the 5th and 6th. The Gub'ment is coming for their guns, but when it comes to folks they don't like, then freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and all the rest are just so much excess that we can't fit into their pontoon liferaft...
2013-04-21 11:03:02 PM  
3 votes:

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice what I preach, even in the shiat.


De-lurking for the sole purpose of saying: "thank you, reasonable human person".
2013-04-21 10:19:03 PM  
3 votes:

Nem Wan: Weaver95: I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.

Used to be, the highest profile cases were when you made extra damn sure the rules were followed. When did we decide that the best way to "send a message" was to demonstrate willingness to break our own rules? And who, exactly, is supposed to be impressed by that?


Usually, people too stupid and/or ignorant to understand the historical relevance of the rules, and the importance of holding them sacred so that they don't eventually degrade into tyranny against the populous.  I sure as hell expect the government to prosecute this guy effectively without their incompetence resulting in the rules having to be bent, or allowing the casus belli de jour to determine our legal standards.

 I forget, is this one of those situations where we let the law be "modified" because we trust the government, or because we're worried about them?  I just want to know what argument is going to be used in the next gun thread.
2013-04-21 10:12:00 PM  
3 votes:
The brothers' uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, told the Associated Press that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was "used" by his older brother to carry out the bombing. "He's not been understanding anything," Tsarni said. "He's a 19-year-old boy."

/Ya, i'm not buying that shiat dude. I can understand your family's pain at being relations to terrorists, but he's 19, MORE than old enough to know that planting bombs and blowing up innocent men, women, and children is wrong. Esp since he's been in country this long. I don't doubt that his brother was a major teacher of hate and intolerance, but he had his own mind, and unless you can prove he's a sociopath, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and its consequences.
2013-04-21 10:06:14 PM  
3 votes:

jaytkay: Injuring 180+ people is pretty "mass" in my opinion. I guess that's commonplace where you live.


"Weapons of Mass Destruction" began as a euphemism for NUCLEAR WEAPONS.  They were then broadened to include things like mass chemical weapons (not pepper spray!) and other things that will take out entire cities.  Weapons that even "civilized" armies aren't supposed to use.

So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of  "weapons of mass destruction."

The US invaded Iraq on suspicion of "weapons of mass destruction." None were found.  Meanwhile, tons of IEDs far more lethal than this Boston pressure cooker bomb are all over the place - they are not "weapons of mass destruction."
2013-04-21 09:39:52 PM  
3 votes:
The federal prosecutor is going to do this one by the numbers. There is a microscope focused on this case  and if it gets screwed up because someone didn't do everything by the book then every senator and congress critter will be screaming for the next 2 years on cable news. No one wants more of that.
2013-04-21 09:33:52 PM  
3 votes:
At this point, they will have to focus their questioning about public safety, as in "are there more bombs", "where are additional bombs", "are there other who were helping you who might be ready to hurt people"???


This is permitted under the ruling about public safety.

They do not need to, nor should they, ask him questions related to intended prosecution. For that, they will have evidence taken from the chase, the capture, his apartments, eye witnesses and video. There is no reason to compromise any of that.
2013-04-21 09:22:38 PM  
3 votes:
If there's any ties to foreign terrorists that info probably died with the older bro.
2013-04-21 09:21:36 PM  
3 votes:

Lindsay Graham: keep him as enemy combatant to interrogate for intelligence purposes; try him in civilian court, can't use info from initial interrogation(s) for civil prosecution

(CNN) Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the suspect in federal custody for the Boston Marathon bombing, should be considered an enemy combatant only for interrogation purposes, not so he can be tried in a military tribunal, Sen. Lindsey Graham said Sunday. "He is not eligible for military commission trial," the Republican senator from South Carolina said on CNN's "State of the Union." Graham argued Tsarnaev should be tried in a civilian trial in federal courts.
Graham was among Republicans Saturday who called for the U.S. government to label Tsarnaev as an enemy combat so authorities could waive his legal rights while they question him for intelligence purposes.
"Most Americans want to find out what he knew, who he associated with, does he know about terrorist organizations within or without the country that are trying to hurt us? Does he know about a future attack?" Graham said on Sunday.
Graham said none of that information could be used against him in civilian court. Anytime Tsarnaev is questioned "about his guilt or innocence," then "he's entitled to his Miranda Rights and a lawyer."

link

Carl Levin: He's not an enemy combatant, don't hold him as one
The Obama administration has said it thinks terrorism suspects arrested inside the United States should be handled exclusively in the criminal justice system. It has indicated no intention to do otherwise in Mr. Tsarnaev's case, but the issue is taking on political currency, underscoring a major divide on national security legal policy.
Senator Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat who is the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a statement that the laws of war did not apply to Mr. Tsarnaev and that there was so far no evidence that he was "part of any organized group, let alone Al Qaeda, the Taliban or one of their affiliates - the only organizations whose members are subject" to detention as a part of war.
"In the absence of such evidence, I know of no legal basis for his detention as an enemy combatant," Mr. Levin said. "To hold the suspect as an enemy combatant under these circumstances would be contrary to our laws and may even jeopardize our efforts to prosecute him for his crimes."

link

2013-04-21 09:21:14 PM  
3 votes:
When I think of brothers indoctrinated to an extremist cause...

sa11bgoesblogging.files.wordpress.com
2013-04-21 09:21:12 PM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.


True or false, thinking like that scare me. Sure it makes sense in peace time, but when there is REAL confusion about who did what, what sort of prececdent does it establish?

Do it right, that's the american way.
2013-04-21 09:16:46 PM  
3 votes:

namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA


He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.
2013-04-21 09:00:59 PM  
3 votes:
they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.
2013-04-21 09:00:58 PM  
3 votes:

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


It doesn't matter if he confesses.  Or says of does anything for that matter.  He's obviously guilty.  They could convict him if he were in a coma.

His only hope to live (if he wants to) is full cooperation in exchange for life.
2013-04-21 08:58:17 PM  
3 votes:

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.
2013-04-21 08:51:43 PM  
3 votes:
I don't think Hallmark even makes a card for this occasion.

Get Well Soon ...so we can try you in a court of law and send your blood thirsty little punkass to PMITA prison for the rest of your miserable farked up life!
2013-04-21 08:51:36 PM  
3 votes:

calbert: it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.


The victims of the bombing did. Everyone gets life saving help from the hospital! It's against the law not to!

All you have to do is get though the door and they have to do everything they can to save you.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 08:45:10 PM  
3 votes:
He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.
2013-04-22 01:37:10 AM  
2 votes:

incrdbil: Overall younger American born Muslims are more extreme, not less.


And the more we tell them they are useless piece of shiat monsters who will grow up to rape and kill our daughters, guess what.......
2013-04-22 01:30:49 AM  
2 votes:

wingnut396: Not only that, but this group also is the loudest to proclaim moral superiority and godliness.

Morals and values only count when you do them when the choice is hard.  It is easy when you have a $1,000 dollars in the bank and a steady income to not steal needed items.  WHen you are dead broke, with hungry kids and no prospects, it because harder to resist that temptation to go against the values and morals you trumpet.

Just like in this case.  I want justice.  I want revenge.  But that is tempered with the fact that I value what I was taught as to what makes us different.  We are not supposed to torture people or punish them without due process.  I understand that terrible nature of what this person seems to have done.  But if don't stick to our values or morals when it is hardest for us to do so, those values and morals have no meaning.

Let the process work.  Treat this guy with the legal deference we all would want should we be accused of a crime. Because if we can do it when it is hardest for us to do so, then we really do set the example and we do become the city on the hill that some have claimed us to be.


Truer words have never been spoken.
2013-04-22 12:43:39 AM  
2 votes:

JungleBoogie: Some call it "enlightenment" to not punish criminals. Or to give them slaps on the wrist relative to their crimes. I don't call that enlightenment. I call it decadence and societal decay.


Yes, you are right.

But to willfully torture and inflict pain as revenge? You might call that justice, I call that barbarism.
2013-04-22 12:36:38 AM  
2 votes:

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


Per capita, few Mulsims are terrorists.

The overwhelming majority of terrorists are Muslims.

It's a cultural thing.
2013-04-22 12:31:11 AM  
2 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: Yep. It kinda makes me wonder what planet people are living on when they scream and shout about anyone suggesting a particular plot might be Muslims or foreigners. Apparently they simply aren't aware of reality.


And the saddest thing is that still, the overwhelming (we're talking 99% of Muslims) in  America are appalled by these things. Probably 1% or less would be favorable to these, and even a smaller percentage would be ready to take action. Yet that leaves us with thousand potential terrorists. Which leads us to:

On the other hand, it does give one a good feeling about just how effective the FBI is. They get a bad rap because people only hear about the the few they don't stop, like this one.

thank G-d for that. Not only for all the lives that were saved, but also for the fact that if even 10% of these plots had succeeded, you could bet that life for Muslims in America would actually take a turn for the negative.

Again, I really want to just bury those numbers and pretend they don't exist.
2013-04-22 12:28:09 AM  
2 votes:

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


Welcome to the disturbing world we live in. It's not a nice place all the time. But it is better to acknowledge the reality than hide from numbers that refuse to be politically correct.
2013-04-22 12:27:20 AM  
2 votes:

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


It may be more scary that they've stopped all of them. Either they're handing out thousands of wiretapping/tracking warrants or people are being tracked without warrants. Or do they even need warrants to tap Muslims' phones and internet, and track their cars nowadays?
2013-04-22 12:21:43 AM  
2 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef


... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.
2013-04-21 11:55:08 PM  
2 votes:

incrdbil: That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat. I want him to get the death penalty, but I also want to get any information from him if there was any support or assistace from others involved in this case. So giving him a choice of living conditions until his sentence is carried out could be one method to get to that goal.


Do you not think that having him spend the rest of his life 23 hours a day in a cell with only a view toward the sky, no one to talk to (and unable to in the first place) and nothing to do for the next 70 years at least much worse than just giving him the death penalty?
2013-04-21 11:50:59 PM  
2 votes:

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Thank you for your service, and for your decency.

/Hope it's not as rare out there as it seems sometimes
//Yes, I know Fark isn't always the best place to measure
2013-04-21 11:43:06 PM  
2 votes:

Tatsuma: Could he be stripped of his citizenship? After all, he's only been a citizen since September 11, 2012.

If they prove that he and his brothers had been planning this beforehand, could they say that he lied when he took the oath, and therefore strip it from him?


Even if he IS stripped of his citizenship, he can still be put on trial.

Ramzi Yousef-Captured in Pakistan, convicted for role in Bojinka plot in 1996, convicted for role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence.

Wali Khan Amin Shah-Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Abdul Hakim Ali Hashim Murad - Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Eyad Ismoil - Captured in Amman, extradited to US, convicted of role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Khalfan Khamis Mohamed-Captured in Cape Town, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mahmud Abouhalima-Captured in Egypt, convicted of 1993 WTC bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali-Convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Odeh-Captured in Karachi, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed A. Salameh-Convicted of involvement in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Ali Hassan Al-Moayad-Captured in Germany, convicted of federal crimes related to funding Hamas, sent to ADX Florence


Apparently, Colorado hasn't disappeared in a geyser of radioactive vapor from all the pure EVIL concentrated there...
2013-04-21 11:33:51 PM  
2 votes:

Voiceofreason01: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

Then we could make everything a "terror" offense then we can kick out all the brown people then we can just get rid of civil rights altogether.

/that might be a very stupid idea


I doubt this particular complaint would bear out; I don't see courts being amenable to that for white collar crimes, domestic or drug-related murder, etc, it's a slippery slope argument that reality wouldn't bear out. But as for stretching the boundaries of things like bank robbery, domestic mass murder like Newtown, etc, it's definitely a worry.

The bigger worry is setting the precedent for different classes of American citizens. I think one or the other, either you're a citizen or you're not, is the way to go. Introducing variable classes of citizenship is the hallmark of scary governments everywhere.
2013-04-21 11:31:05 PM  
2 votes:

Sliding Carp: Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended twisted into whatever shape the gubmint wants on this one.


The U.S. Government is very good at twisting laws to meet their needs.
2013-04-21 11:07:56 PM  
2 votes:
There are so many victims here. Think of the poor widow. She converted to Islam. We should all chip in and pay for her to relocate to Saudi Arabia so she can enjoy the support of her Muslim brothers and sisters.
2013-04-21 11:04:46 PM  
2 votes:

comslave: Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.


so torture used by the US is good but torture used by anyone else is bad?
2013-04-21 10:59:55 PM  
2 votes:
Great post xyphoid.
2013-04-21 10:55:51 PM  
2 votes:

Tatsuma: ... I wasn't being rude


Calling someone's simple question 'bullshiat' is rude among normal people.
2013-04-21 10:50:31 PM  
2 votes:

Coastalgrl: Ok chill out. It was just a question which you answered. Thanks


... I wasn't being rude, I was just telling you that all of the people saying that he needs his miranda rights or he could walk are just saying a load of bullshiat, I wasn't insulting you.

knowless: wheres his lawyer?


He's being represented by the Feds.
2013-04-21 10:48:35 PM  
2 votes:
wheres his lawyer?
2013-04-21 10:47:02 PM  
2 votes:

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


I think most people would settle for a fair trial and then execution.  Not really sure we need to torture him unless there's a sleep cell planning more attacks, and even then we'd need pretty good proof that that's the case.
2013-04-21 10:28:26 PM  
2 votes:
I hope we can learn from Dzhokhar Tsarnaev everything we possibly can!
A Boston Cop friend of mine sent me a graphic picture of his brother  Tamerlan dead on a gurney.
Pretty sick and definitely not suitable for posting.
As a former Bostonian I pray for all that are affected.
Boston Strong!
2013-04-21 10:17:42 PM  
2 votes:

El Supe: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.


And the purpose of all that would be.....?
2013-04-21 10:11:01 PM  
2 votes:

Dougie AXP: A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.


Yes. It's a bomb.  It is not, however, a "weapon of mass destruction."

I've never denied it was a bomb. This guy did a mass murder with bombs.  That part is pretty much an airtight case I think, if they've got video, not to mention all the various bits of evidence they've collected at the scene.

Then there's all the killing of a policemen, chucking more bombs out of their car, yeah. Plenty of crimes here. There is no way this guy is ever going free.
2013-04-21 10:06:30 PM  
2 votes:

ZeroCorpse: My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.


You just blew my mind.
2013-04-21 10:04:34 PM  
2 votes:
Oh, good, now we can all focus on their motivations like they matter.

They don't.
2013-04-21 10:04:31 PM  
2 votes:

NewportBarGuy: No, that's a fairy tale.



"A local officer spotted the brothers driving in two cars, a Honda sedan and the stolen Mercedes SUV, said Deveau. The brothers stopped, jumped out and started firing on the officer, while more police rushed to the scene, he said.
"Quickly we had six Watertown police officers and two bad guys in a gunfight," said Deveau. At least 200 shots were fired; maybe as many as 300, he said.
The shots, around 12:50 a.m., woke resident Jennings Aske, at 66 Laurel Ave. When he looked out his window he saw a green Honda Civic sedan stopped in the street, with its lights on and the driver's side windows blown out. A husky man - apparently Tamerlan Tsarnaev -- stood nearby firing a gun.
"I saw him standing there shooting at police," Aske said. "When he fired, there was a little flash of light. I could hear the gun firing. It was terrifying."
A police SUV came down Laurel Street, hearing west toward Dexter Ave., crashing into some trash cans on the sidewalk and into a parked car. Aske said he then saw a black Mercedes SUV drive up, also heading west toward Dexter Avenue. Then he heard two or three loud explosions, one of them large enough to shake the house. In an instant, the street "was crawling with police," he said.
Deveau said the Tsarnaev brothers hurled something at the officers - apparently a pressure cooker bomb -- and there was a tremendous explosion. Police later found the lid to a pressure cooker. "We believe it was an exact duplicate of the Boston Marathon bombs," he said. The suspects also threw five "crude grenades" at officers; three of which exploded, he said.
One of his officers put his cruiser into gear and jumped out of it, letting it roll at the suspects to draw fire, he said. The suspects peppered the car with bullets.
After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel. The officers scattered and the SUV plowed over Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged briefly under the car, he said.
Dzhokar Tsarnaev abandoned the SUV almost immediately on a nearby street and fled on foot, triggering an all-day manhunt."
2013-04-21 10:00:22 PM  
2 votes:

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


i.imgur.com
2013-04-21 09:43:55 PM  
2 votes:

calbert: it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.


Just like everyone who gets into the hospital, he'll be billed for the health care. Stamping license plates only pays so much, however. It's not "free," although he'll never be able to afford the bill.
2013-04-21 09:43:27 PM  
2 votes:

ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

Find out who radicalized him, and send him a Hellfire.

"cleric", my ass.


There's evil clerics. Do you even D&D?
2013-04-21 09:41:33 PM  
2 votes:

NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.


You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.
2013-04-21 09:40:06 PM  
2 votes:
Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

Find out who radicalized him, and send him a Hellfire.

"cleric", my ass.
2013-04-21 09:29:38 PM  
2 votes:
FTFA: "Meanwhile at the Watertown Police Station, neighbor Gale Boyd brought homemade brownies and Lindor truffles Sunday afternoon and shook the hand of the first police officer she saw."

What the fark, is this a news site or a church newsletter?
2013-04-21 09:28:56 PM  
2 votes:

namatad: but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...


Okay, that's just not how that works at all.

Miranda is PURELY about what is admissible at trial, and given that his guilt can be established trivially without any confession (if just for the murder of that cop during his escape if not the bombings) there's no question of him conceivably going free.
2013-04-21 09:26:03 PM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended twisted into whatever shape the gubmint wants on this one.

2013-04-21 09:21:47 PM  
2 votes:

foo monkey: namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA

He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.


And I'll be completely fine by that, as long as the punishment is carried out with the full consent of a jury in an open trial.
2013-04-21 09:14:21 PM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.


I agree about the rights, but military tribunal...

Do millitary tribunals have to recognize your alleged rank? I could park my car in the highway U-turn lane, wait for a statie to come issue the ticket, declare it a military action and get recognized at the tribunal as Captain Doglover, and viola (or contrabass)! I'm a CO for $300 plus a few points on the license.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 09:07:09 PM  
2 votes:
I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

A politician was blowing his mouth off. They do that sometimes. A military trial would have to be based on the global war on terror and the 2001 authorization for use of military force against terrorists. At this point there isn't any evidence of international terrorism or even domestic terrorism. Terrorism is not the same as killing a lot of people.

I heard an interview with Alan Dershowitz. He said he would flunk anybody in his class who suggested a military tribunal under the circumstances.
2013-04-21 09:03:33 PM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: we're just gonna strip him of his rights


Maybe.

Weaver95: torture the f*ck outta him


Doubt it, in this particular case.

Weaver95: and then kill him


Maybe.
2013-04-21 08:52:42 PM  
2 votes:
He's a a stress free kind of guy
2013-04-22 02:19:23 PM  
1 votes:

incrdbil: I see it more as this: older Muslims leave where they are, and know a better situation when they see it, the younger ones grow up, mainly hearing nostalgic stories of 'home' (as most people tend to focus on that) get a nice steady diet of liberal "America is evil opressive racist blah blah blah" indoctrination from their so called 'education' in public school and college--add the internet and get to the extremists sites and there you go.


That too, absolutely.
2013-04-22 10:09:42 AM  
1 votes:
Here's the funny thing about the whole Miranda thing...and why it's f*cking stoopid to be so frightened of reading folks their rights...

Folks keep thinking that "THERE'S NO TIME!" is a valid excuse. In extremis, there are cases, but the time has sort of flown, and a lot of folks who seem to be fired up on this are missing the point.
2013-04-22 09:02:13 AM  
1 votes:
The old Russian system would of gone after all his relatives too. Just to make an example.
2013-04-22 07:42:34 AM  
1 votes:
Serious question: How the hell do they find an unbiased jury? Everyone has already pre-judged him, and defense will have a field day with that.
2013-04-22 06:15:35 AM  
1 votes:

ZeroCorpse: My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.


I was thinking along those same lines, but it doesn't sell as well on CNN as 'OMFG!! Muslin turrurist! Sleeper cells!11!!'
2013-04-22 05:44:43 AM  
1 votes:
I don't think the act the brothers did was totally related to religion.  It was more of a selfish act, maybe in part to see what they could get away with because something or someone convinced them they should be.  I have thought this all along.  I have noticed that most of the bombings in in public areas that are instigated by radical Islamist groups involved some sort of self sacrifice and then some group claims responsibility. I could be completely wrong in this way of thinking but this, however, it is what I see reported in the news. I noticed in the Boston Bombings,  the persons involved did neither; it was selfish act of violence.

Regardless, the blame should be focused on the two brothers as a whole. Not those who may share the same faith or race. My anger is in what they did and how they repaid the country and community that took them,helped raise them, and gave them a life that was better than they had in their home country by doing this terrible act. I don't want the death penalty for the surviving brother.  I want him spend the rest of his life in prison with no parole, having to reflect on what he did and sharing his cell with another inmate who will also remind him of it too, every night too. If you get what I mean.
2013-04-22 04:33:08 AM  
1 votes:

cretinbob: Xyphoid:


Applause to both of you, and others I'm sure, but I didn't read the whole thread.

Thank you for restoring some of my faith in my fellow Americans.
2013-04-22 03:54:46 AM  
1 votes:

itazurakko: Dougie AXP: A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.

Yes. It's a bomb.  It is not, however, a "weapon of mass destruction."

I've never denied it was a bomb.
This guy did a mass murder with bombs.  That part is pretty much an airtight case I think, if they've got video, not to mention all the various bits of evidence they've collected at the scene.

Then there's all the killing of a policemen, chucking more bombs out of their car, yeah. Plenty of crimes here. There is no way this guy is ever going free.


jarkesypolitical.com

He'll probably jumpstart a future president's political career in his living room, then go onto a lucrative lecture and teaching career.
2013-04-22 03:09:20 AM  
1 votes:

Robert1966: Whoa, wait. Here he is leaving the boat under his own power.

[www.gannett-cdn.com image 540x406]

Does he look like someone in serious condition, who cannot speak? WTF?


Then you have the photograph of them putting an airway into him.  Just because he can walk, or climb out of a boat, doesn't mean he's uninjured.

I responded to a report of an attempted suicide once, where the suspect had shot himself in the head, with a .25 caliber handgun.  He had pieces of his skull and brain falling out onto the floor of his condo, and he STILL managed to walk to the front door and open it for us.  He then sat down and allowed treatment.  He's still alive, but not 100% mentally capable.

There are countless stories of people experiencing 10-15 gunshots and living, even still fighting on.
2013-04-22 02:07:28 AM  
1 votes:
A lot of confirmation bias in the latter part of this thread.
2013-04-22 01:59:21 AM  
1 votes:
This guy isn't going to know much. Hopefully he'll know a little, but the Feds'll get more info from big brother's internet, phone, etc. Little brother will be able to give dates & times, maybe names.

If big brother was the finger, little brother was the fingernail. What the FBI is wondering is "where's the rest of the body?"
2013-04-22 01:54:08 AM  
1 votes:

cretinbob: incrdbil: Overall younger American born Muslims are more extreme, not less.

And the more we tell them they are useless piece of shiat monsters who will grow up to rape and kill our daughters, guess what.......


Well, stop telling them that then.  I never heard anyone else say it.

/christians, otoh, hear that and worse in several fark threads a week
//makes me sad to be a liberal american
2013-04-22 01:51:33 AM  
1 votes:

cretinbob: incrdbil: Overall younger American born Muslims are more extreme, not less.

And the more we tell them they are useless piece of shiat monsters who will grow up to rape and kill our daughters, guess what.......


I see it more as this: older Muslims leave where they are, and know a better situation when they see it, the younger ones grow up, mainly hearing nostalgic stories of 'home' (as most people tend to focus on that) get a nice steady diet of liberal "America is evil opressive racist blah blah blah" indoctrination from their so called 'education' in public school and college--add the internet and get to the extremists sites and there you go.
2013-04-22 01:43:49 AM  
1 votes:

FitzShivering:
Torture should never be used.  It has never and still does not work.  On the other hand, it gives a great deal of ammo to your opponents.


Under torture, a person will say anything. Torture will generate answers--but not neccessarily accurate ones.

To get accurate ones, you have to question someone, then fact check their answers, then apply more for false answers. It is hard to set up the conditioning repsonse without the ability to quickly verify answers.

A cold, cost/benefit evauluation of the use of torture, discarding ethics and morality:

Torture is not the most reliable tool; therefore its use should be in line with a recognition of its limitations-and the value of the answers have to be compared against the harm the act of torture inflicts--on those who must issue it, then the pubblic relations harm upon the revelation that torture has been used. this can be mitigated somewhat by disinformation and discrediting the source, but several entities dedicated to human rights will actively seeks to pierce such schemes, leading to a high risk of the exposure of the incidents of torture on released subjects. The quiet, unseen disposal of such subjects may been preferable--butthe potential negative PR if that is discovered is significant as well. So given all of these limitations, torture's value is limited---at best, a desperate tool for the most desperate of situations.
2013-04-22 01:43:46 AM  
1 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: calbert: it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.

The victims of the bombing did. Everyone gets life saving help from the hospital! It's against the law not to!

All you have to do is get though the door and they have to do everything they can to save you.


The emergency room has to treat you, but they are perfectly free to bill you after the treatment takes place.  They can also hire debt collectors and force you into bankruptcy -- or at the least divert a fourth of whatever you earn into their coffers for ever and ever...

Massachusetts does have nearly-universal health care thanks to Romneycare, which gives many of the Boston Marathon victims one less thing to worry about.
2013-04-22 01:33:46 AM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: Yep. It kinda makes me wonder what planet people are living on when they scream and shout about anyone suggesting a particular plot might be Muslims or foreigners. Apparently they simply aren't aware of reality.

And the saddest thing is that still, the overwhelming (we're talking 99% of Muslims) in  America are appalled by these things. Probably 1% or less would be favorable to these, and even a smaller percentage would be ready to take action. Yet that leaves us with thousand potential terrorists. Which leads us to:

On the other hand, it does give one a good feeling about just how effective the FBI is. They get a bad rap because people only hear about the the few they don't stop, like this one.

thank G-d for that. Not only for all the lives that were saved, but also for the fact that if even 10% of these plots had succeeded, you could bet that life for Muslims in America would actually take a turn for the negative.

Again, I really want to just bury those numbers and pretend they don't exist.


They do exist. Wishing they didnt exist because its 'uncomfortable' is not an option.

This is reality. It is not bigotry. Numbers, facts, studies.

Recent (2009) polls show a disparity of views regarding terrorism, with between 15% and 30% of respondents in most Muslim countries surveyed holding a positive view (see [6] for the complete results) on various related issues. An average of 30% of respondents in Indonesia, Egypt, Pakistan and Morocco held positive views of groups that launch attacks against Americans, while similar numbers held a negative view or a neutral view. With regards specifically to al-Qaeda, in Egypt, 21% of respondents supported their attacks on Americans, while 33% opposed attacks on Americans but supported al-Qaeda's goals and 28% opposed both al-Qaeda's attacks and goals; the remainder held no strong opinion. These numbers were 9%, 19%, and 22% respectively in Indonesia; 16%, 15%, and 22% in Pakistan; and 9%, 31%, and 26% in Morocco. With regards to feelings about the former al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, Muslims tended to show even stronger support. In Egypt, 44% held positive feelings, 25% held mixed feelings, and 17% held negative feelings. These numbers were 14%, 21%, and 26% respectively in Indonesia; 25%, 26%, and 15% for Pakistan; 27%, 26%, and 21% for Morocco; 56%, 22%, and 20% for the Palestinian Territories; 27%, 27%, and 20% for Jordan; 9%, 9%, and 68% for Turkey; and 4%, 6%, and 82% for Azerbaijan. Related to this trend is widespread denial of al-Qaeda's role in such attacks as those of September 11 in the United States. Majorities in Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan, Morocco, the Palestinian Territories, Turkey, and Jordan did not believe that al-Qaeda was behind the attacks, naming the United States government or Israel as more likely culprits.

As for US Muslims..well, I could guess you could call the numbers 'better'

http://pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf

*8% of all American Muslims approve of suicide bombings. The sentiment is strongest among younger Muslims. Only 68% had a somewhat unfavorable view of al Qaeda. 5% of U.S. Muslims support Al Qaeda specifically
Only 40% of American Muslims believe that Arab men attacked the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.
47% of American Muslims consider themselves Muslim first rather than American (!)

Overall younger American born Muslims are more extreme, not less.
2013-04-22 01:21:03 AM  
1 votes:
I don't know much about what actually goes on inside a real trial... but how in the hell would one go about finding "fair" jurors for this?? That's got to be a close-to-impossible task. And as others have mentioned, even if it's the right thing to do under the law, I cannot imagine having to be the guy's lawyer. A lawyer for him might as well just be for formalities at this point. I doubt any lawyer would be able to help him out much, nor even actually want to.

At least the evil [insert swear words of choice here] has been caught and can't hurt anyone any more.

No, I would NOT make a fair juror. At least I'm honest.
2013-04-22 01:01:35 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.


I'm delirious with fever and stoned out on cough syrup, and even still I recognize the strength of your arguments.

Honestly, you should write a book.
2013-04-22 01:01:33 AM  
1 votes:
The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
'T is mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway,
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's,
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That in the course of justice none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy.

-- "The Merchant of Venice", Act 4 scene 1
2013-04-22 12:59:17 AM  
1 votes:

awalkingecho: cretinbob: You realize the nationality of his doctor has nothing to do with anything, unless you are an overt racist, right?

And openly Jewish; if it wasn't that article there was another where the doctor was at-length questioned as to whether or not faith was affecting, consciously or unconsciously the care he was receiving. It was a point of interest; enough so that a news source actually made an article centered around it, so fark me for sharing it.

Cats and dogs living together.

Welcometofark.jpg


I wasn't singling you out, I was just making an observation.

People need to stop getting hung up on that kind of shiat. Racism is learned and it's hard to break. Self awareness is the key.

Everyone's a bigot
2013-04-22 12:50:39 AM  
1 votes:

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


25.media.tumblr.com

You have said it better than I've been trying to.  We are supposed to be better than "them".
Unfortuantely in the past 12 years there has been a group of people who have been trying to destroy this country. They, however are not "them", but they aren't Us either. We have a chance to take our country back from those who really are trying to wreck it. I hope we don't let this opportunity be squandered.
2013-04-22 12:42:27 AM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: I think you really don't get Islamic terrorism if you think that 'plans to get away with it' plays any part in the decision.


The Boston Marathon bombings were only Islamic terrorism if saying so can somehow be used to support Obama.

/otherwise it was right-wing teabaggers
//seriously, Chris Matthews can go from talking about the Islamic connection, to denying it, to accusing Scott Walker of having a hand in the whole plot, in the same sentence
2013-04-22 12:36:25 AM  
1 votes:

gaspode: If you are a proud American you should be very much demanding that this person is placed on public trial and treated exactly according to the law, that you can all see him held to account for what he did.

Anything else IS un-american, if that term has any meaning at all. You are supposed to be BETTER than these guys.


Truth.  Due Process must take place with even the worst criminals, or we are no better than anyone else.
2013-04-22 12:21:02 AM  
1 votes:
Maybe I'm alone, but I WANT there to be a trial.
I want to know why these two did what they did.
I want to hear it directly from him.
And I want him to have full due process.
And, assuming the jury comes back with guilty, I want him to be tossed down the same hole we tossed Charles Manson down. No hope of getting out.
2013-04-22 12:17:31 AM  
1 votes:

ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


Herbert Hans Haupt was a US citizen who committed a crime within the United States, was caught in the United States and subjected to a Military tribunal.  The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that this was OK and he was subsequently executed.  I'm not saying that the facts and circumstances of this case merit him being eligible for enemy combatant treatment (only the justice department knows for sure), but you cannot summarily state that he would get a criminal trial just because he is a US citizen.
2013-04-22 12:15:32 AM  
1 votes:

Warlordtrooper: I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state.  McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level.  But this incident was purely done inside a single state.


Not for bombs.  Check out Section I, although Section E also has restrictions for intrastate use or manufacture of explosives.

The feds can still nab you for alcohol distillery as well, even if you don't transport it outside of your state.
2013-04-21 11:59:57 PM  
1 votes:
If they can prove he joined or was part of any organization that is inimical to the United States prior to or subsequently after he became a citizen, that citizenship can be revoked. At that point some things change as to what they can do.

Excerpt below from the USC and INA regulations.

Various acts occurring after naturalization are, by law, evidence of misrepresentation or suppression at time of naturalization. For example, if a naturalized citizen joins a subversive organization within five years of becoming a citizen and membership in that group would have precluded eligibility for naturalization under the INA, then the joining of the organization is held to be a rebuttable presumption that naturalization was obtained by concealing or misrepresenting how attached to the United States the citizen was when naturalized.
Part of the process for becoming a United States citizen is the taking of an oath
"absolutely and entirely" renouncing any allegiance or fidelity to any other country. United States naturalization, in combination with the oath of absolute allegiance, may result in loss of foreign nationality under the pertinent foreign laws. Furthermore, United States naturalization may be revoked if illegally or fraudulently obtained. Any exercise of foreign citizenship subsequent to United States naturalization may be evidence of misrepresentation in taking the oath of allegiance and thus potential grounds for denaturalization.
2013-04-21 11:59:16 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: incrdbil: That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat. I want him to get the death penalty, but I also want to get any information from him if there was any support or assistace from others involved in this case. So giving him a choice of living conditions until his sentence is carried out could be one method to get to that goal.

Do you not think that having him spend the rest of his life 23 hours a day in a cell with only a view toward the sky, no one to talk to (and unable to in the first place) and nothing to do for the next 70 years at least much worse than just giving him the death penalty?


Not really.  Inmates on death row who keep lodging appeal after appeal and fighting the sentence seem to discredit the 'death is preferable' argument.
2013-04-21 11:52:59 PM  
1 votes:

incrdbil: Here a potential completely under the table plea deal: Death penaly, or Death penalty. Cooperate, and he gets the Death Penalty..at a Supermax, where he will be protected and get good treatment through years and years of appeals.  Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.


Don't be stupid. The guy is going to the supermax regardless because he is a terrorist. Because of the risk of an attempted escape and the influence he can have on other prisoners that is automatic.
2013-04-21 11:46:42 PM  
1 votes:

saturn badger: stoli n coke: No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.

Not actually true.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest


Jesus Christ.  Again?!  NOBODY knows at this point if they've read him his rights or not.  They're saying he's responding to questioning right now.  That could mean questions like "are you Dzhokhar Tsarvaev."  "Do you know where you are?"  "Do you know why you're here?"

The Public Safety Exception to Miranda is there to prevent the imminent danger that a person just arrested might have information of.  For instance, if he'd been stopped right after the bomb went off, asking him if there was another bomb and where it was and him answering would fall under the PSE.  It is NOT a prong by which they can ask questions, at all phases of the investigation, and they all fall under that exception.  It is a very narrowly defined principle. It's also not like they say some magic words and the statements are automatically admissible.  A judge still rules whether or not those statements made will be admissible.

If he's been in the hospital for several days, that exception WILL NOT APPLY.  Before he is interviewed, he WILL be read Miranda.

The whole "we're not going to Mirandize him right now" came from ONE official, while the suspect was en-route to the hospital, who didn't know his medical condition, and was speaking in very general terms when asked about whether or not there were others as part of the plot/bombing.  The official was saying that they'd ask him questions about that.  Then when asked about Miranda, he made a statement about the PSE.  Now all these farking idiots on the TV are debating the topic like it's some hot button issue.  It's not.

He'll be read his rights, period.
2013-04-21 11:43:30 PM  
1 votes:

BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.

Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.

Yes, that is correct, criminal and civil courts are very different. Civi (no L) does not mean civil (has an L), though - civi (no L) is slang for civilian. So a "civi court" (no L) means either state or federal criminal court.


And that was the point I was trying to make here but got chastised for it. Whatever. This is like Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average and every farker is an expert at everything.

But it is in the details sometimes. Sometimes it pays to argue a point to maybe, just maybe, educate someone. Doesn't work much here for many but I admit many have taught me things in various threads. Others are facepalm.jpg.

But I do enjoy it sometimes just for its... fill in your own description. ;)
2013-04-21 11:39:55 PM  
1 votes:

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Bless your heart for writing this. Regardless of what drove him to these acts, we must still maintain some semblance of morality. To the farker who was upset he was getting medical treatment, physicians are healers, and one of their duties is to "never do harm", no matter who their patient is.
2013-04-21 11:39:01 PM  
1 votes:

itazurakko: The shooting of the MIT cop happened shortly after the 7/11 but yeah, turns out not even near it?  That really is extra WTF.

Who's the fifth murder victim, though?  Brother doesn't count, surely? (It's going to take an autopsy to even determine what killed him among the vast amount of choice injuries.)  They got three at the marathon, plus the MIT cop, almost killed the transit cop but he was saved, it seems like.


Reliable sources say he ran over his brother while the police were handcuffing said  brother. Yeah, it's five.
2013-04-21 11:34:25 PM  
1 votes:

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


Um why would this be a miltary court?
2013-04-21 11:33:12 PM  
1 votes:
Could he be stripped of his citizenship? After all, he's only been a citizen since September 11, 2012.

If they prove that he and his brothers had been planning this beforehand, could they say that he lied when he took the oath, and therefore strip it from him?
2013-04-21 11:31:19 PM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen.


We should go by the rules anyway.
2013-04-21 11:30:25 PM  
1 votes:

AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?


What kind of a stupid question is that? We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen. Whether he is evil or not is what the courts are there to decide.
2013-04-21 11:25:03 PM  
1 votes:

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


Then we could make everything a "terror" offense then we can kick out all the brown people then we can just get rid of civil rights altogether.

/that might be a very stupid idea
2013-04-21 11:22:51 PM  
1 votes:

quatchi: I don't think Hallmark even makes a card for this occasion.

Get Well Soon ...so we can try you in a court of law and send your blood thirsty little punkass to PMITA prison for the rest of your miserable farked up life!


Federal charges, Federal death penalty.
No state bullshiat. He killed 5 playing terrorist.
2013-04-21 11:18:06 PM  
1 votes:
First thing I thought of...no one else???
www.chud.com
2013-04-21 11:17:02 PM  
1 votes:
Apparently "weapons of mass distruction" has a different meaning in the US then the rest of the world since 2006.  That explains a lot.

The kid will face a fair trail, justice is not simply about arresting and charging someone.  The healing process requires justice, not a lynch mob.
2013-04-21 11:11:16 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: comslave: Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.

so torture used by the US is good but torture used by anyone else is bad?


Yeah, Sherman said it best:

Only those who've never seen it cry for more.
2013-04-21 11:09:46 PM  
1 votes:

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Thank you.
2013-04-21 11:07:02 PM  
1 votes:
Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.
2013-04-21 11:04:38 PM  
1 votes:

somedude210: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

It doesn't say whether or not he's being interrogated.  It does say he's "not in any condition to be interrogated."  They might just be asking things like "Do you need any pillows" or whatever.

Then again, they might not be.

I believe they're trying to get confirmation that there are no more bombs somewhere in the city. Hence why his Miranda rights were not given


Also, if he's on enough painkillers, reading him his Miranda rights might be pointless.

When I sold insurance, if someone where drunk or on drugs, I could not sell them insurance since the documents were considered contracts.  I'd imagine the same rules would be in place for who reading someone their rights.  Wouldn't want some defense lawyer arguing that because he wasn't of sound mind when his rights were read he was unaware of them.
2013-04-21 11:00:55 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.




Agree 100%. Any time you violate or propose to violate the rights of another citizen, you are creating a rod for your own back.

Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due time - that's good enough for me and it should be good enough for the civilized world. Or else, just why the hell do we suppose to be better than these terrorist pukes.
2013-04-21 10:53:09 PM  
1 votes:

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


It makes me wonder why people like that are proud of America and proud to be Americans.  I mean, if they think that America should strip rights from people and torture them, how can they be proud of that?  On the other hand, when I hear about people like you, who put yourself in danger, yet still maintain your principled American standards...that why I'm proud of America and proud to be American.  Thank you!
2013-04-21 10:49:59 PM  
1 votes:

jaytkay: The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".


Sorry, that made me LoL. If the goverment is permitted to twist kitchen appliances into WMDs, you have much greater worries than a couple of crazy Chechens.
2013-04-21 10:49:51 PM  
1 votes:

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


for CHARGES?
2013-04-21 10:49:39 PM  
1 votes:

dr_blasto: Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.

Yo don't get to walk simply because you weren't Mirandized. The results of not being informed of your rights would mean that any confession or evidence you provided may not be admissible in court. If that's the only evidence they have, then you might walk.


fortunately we have eye witnesses, video footage, still photos, forensic evidence and a ton of ready to throw bombs at their house and in their car. I don't think a confession is very necessary
2013-04-21 10:49:22 PM  
1 votes:
currieddogfart.com
2013-04-21 10:49:10 PM  
1 votes:
I really don't care about learning this douchebag's name. From here on out I'm calling him Jeckle. The dead one will be Heckle.
2013-04-21 10:48:01 PM  
1 votes:

awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.


i35.tinypic.com

When I was twelve, I helped my daddy build a bomb shelter in our basement because some fool parked a dozen warheads 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Well, this thing could park a coupla hundred warheads off Washington and New York and no one would know anything about it till it was all over.
2013-04-21 10:42:55 PM  
1 votes:

scraping-fetus-off-the-wheel: The federal prosecutor is going to do this one by the numbers. There is a microscope focused on this case and if it gets screwed up because someone didn't do everything by the book then every senator and congress critter will be screaming for the next 2 years on cable news. No one wants more of that.


Getting off on a technicality does not happen anymore. Around here they arrested a guy for raping a few people but the city DA farked up the paperwork and he sat in jail for close to a year before the judge dismissed his case. Somehow after that a petition of sorts was filed and new charges were brought.
2013-04-21 10:41:21 PM  
1 votes:
My proposed punishment: locked in a cell with the gruesome injuries he caused plastered on the walls around him, Dexter-style. He'll spend the rest of his life looking at bloody stumps dead/suffering people, and the picture of his brother's mutilated corpse front and center.

And the first meal delivered to him should be chicken wings and... something with marinara sauce. Enjoy your meal!
2013-04-21 10:40:49 PM  
1 votes:

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Seriously, just because they're calling it an act of terrorism doesn't mean it's automatically going to go before a federal court.  They'll give MA the first choice at a trial, just like was done with John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo.


I think they'll weigh options.  Virginia got first crack at Muhammed and Malvo because they have the death penalty, but Maryland did not.  Since Mass doesn't have the death penalty, there is more pressure to charge them in federal court.
2013-04-21 10:35:03 PM  
1 votes:

wxboy: I wonder if he's going to be talking like this woman for the rest of his life:

[cdn.abclocal.go.com image 600x338]


What the shiat, man?
2013-04-21 10:34:19 PM  
1 votes:

J Noble Daggett: At this point, they will have to focus their questioning about public safety, as in "are there more bombs", "where are additional bombs", "are there other who were helping you who might be ready to hurt people"???


This is permitted under the ruling about public safety.

They do not need to, nor should they, ask him questions related to intended prosecution. For that, they will have evidence taken from the chase, the capture, his apartments, eye witnesses and video. There is no reason to compromise any of that.


Bingo.

This questioning, the whole "Public Safety Exemption" is on the idea that maybe they weren't acting alone, that they had other contacts in the US, or had other bombs set, or at least built.

The evidence against him is a goddamn mountain without him saying a word.  As has been pointed out, the murder of the MIT PD officer alone, which was WELL documented on its own, is enough to make sure he's never a free man again.  If he doesn't say a thing, or if everything he says is ruled inadmissible in court, he's still never going to walk free again.

You think prosecutors are going to flush their career over a slam-dunk super-high-profile case on something as simple as a freaking Miranda Warning?  I'm sure they are quite sure of their course of action on this.
2013-04-21 10:33:40 PM  
1 votes:
I wonder if he's going to be talking like this woman for the rest of his life:

cdn.abclocal.go.com
2013-04-21 10:31:53 PM  
1 votes:

phrawgh: As predicted, Fartbongo is preparing to pardon him.


...and then give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom
2013-04-21 10:29:27 PM  
1 votes:
It would suck to be this dudes lawyer.
2013-04-21 10:28:19 PM  
1 votes:

Alonjar: One of his officers put his cruiser into gear and jumped out of it, letting it roll at the suspects to draw fire, he said. The suspects peppered the car with bullets.


That is awesome. That officer's quick use of tactics may have saved the lives of him and others.
2013-04-21 10:26:11 PM  
1 votes:

awalkingecho: His doctors are actually Israeli.



You realize the nationality of his doctor has nothing to do with anything, unless you are an overt racist, right?
2013-04-21 10:25:15 PM  
1 votes:

rkiller1: Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.

Trying to follow your logic.  It then follows that the younger brother should've committed suicide, as he had many chances including popping out of the boat like Rambo.  Or shooting his own brains out.


That's exactly what the reports out now are saying - that his neck injury was him eating a bullet. He put the gun in his mouth and fired straight back through his neck, and not up through his head.
2013-04-21 10:23:57 PM  
1 votes:
I find it interesting that there is no mention of the guns they used. Not the usual AK-47, Glock, assault rifle you usually hear, and in the gun control frenzy the politicians are in right now.
2013-04-21 10:23:54 PM  
1 votes:
What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!
2013-04-21 10:23:22 PM  
1 votes:
Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?
2013-04-21 10:21:35 PM  
1 votes:

awalkingecho: tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.

His doctors are actually Israeli. So lulz.


Citation on the Israeli doctors in case anyone wants it
2013-04-21 10:19:01 PM  
1 votes:

tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.


His doctors are actually Israeli. So lulz.
2013-04-21 10:18:55 PM  
1 votes:

ManateeGag: He hasn't been read his rights!  This is 0bummer's America!  He's going to have us all under marshal law!  Illegal home searches!


i0.kym-cdn.com
2013-04-21 10:18:33 PM  
1 votes:

ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.


Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!
2013-04-21 10:18:10 PM  
1 votes:
The brothers' uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, told the Associated Press that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was "used" by his older brother to carry out the bombing. "He's not been understanding anything," Tsarni said. "He's a 19-year-old boy."

I knew this pathetic defense was going to rear its head. He lost any chance at that when he decided to fire an automatic weapon at police officers attempting to apprehend him. Death penalty. I don't give a shiat if he's 19. Death penalty.
2013-04-21 10:17:54 PM  
1 votes:
2013-04-21 10:16:20 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


Ted Kaczynski, by himself, killed just as many people as this guy did with bombs and he's alive in prison. There's no reason to kill Tsarnaev now and keeping him alive might help us better understand bombers in the future.
2013-04-21 10:14:02 PM  
1 votes:

Alonjar: After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel. The officers scattered and the SUV plowed over Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged briefly under the car, he said.


You're reading that as he intentionally killed his brother. I'm reading it as he killed his brother trying to get away.

Neither of us will know until more information comes out. The only thing I was asserting is that he has to live with the fact that he killed his brother. Maybe that's why he tried to kill himself. It's all supposition.
2013-04-21 10:10:12 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.


Used to be, the highest profile cases were when you made extra damn sure the rules were followed. When did we decide that the best way to "send a message" was to demonstrate willingness to break our own rules? And who, exactly, is supposed to be impressed by that?
2013-04-21 10:08:46 PM  
1 votes:

Mugato: Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.


Laws are an "official definition".  You can only charge someone with a crime that's on the books.
2013-04-21 10:05:00 PM  
1 votes:

Great Janitor: If the laws already in place already have rules for what classifies someone as a terrorist, and if he fits those guidelines, then the rules aren't being bent 'cause the guy's evil'.  The guy is being held by the laws of the land.


Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.
2013-04-21 10:03:48 PM  
1 votes:
I don't get why people think this is going to be anything but a regular fed trial. There is nothing to be gained by anyone to do it in any other setting. Nor do I really see why the trial is a big deal at all other than the final sentencing wherein the people who will be happier if he is dead will argue with the people who will be happier if he is alive (and obviously miserable) over whether or not killing somebody for killing other somebodies is a good idea.

In the end the only true winners will be the media conglomerates who will milk the whole tragedy in the most sordid way imaginable. Im sure the ratings will be fantastic.
2013-04-21 10:03:14 PM  
1 votes:
See, when they want to keep you alive, they can.  The rest of us get Allstate
2013-04-21 10:01:40 PM  
1 votes:

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


So the big, bad "conservatives" can jerk off to their torture porn.  It makes them feel tough, manly, and not the type to put up with anybody's shiat!!  *SNORT*

Or maybe they just have no faith in that Constitution they're always claiming to care about.
2013-04-21 09:58:19 PM  
1 votes:

AliceBToklasLives: ZeroCorpse: What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

False.

[thefarmclub.net image 236x236]


True
cdn.sheknows.com
2013-04-21 09:54:31 PM  
1 votes:

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


He'll be tried in a civil court, likely federal for the terrorism related crimes, and/or state for the murder related crimes.

There is literally no way that he'll be tried as an enemy combatant.  If we were in a declared war, with a clear enemy, and he was working as an agent for that enemy to attack us here, he'd be tried in a tribunal, most likely.

As is, he's an American citizen, who committed a very henous act of terrorism/murder.  That's it.
2013-04-21 09:53:39 PM  
1 votes:
I thought Drew had a rule that we weren't to use these guy's real names and had to instead refer to them as some character from The Simpsons.
2013-04-21 09:51:32 PM  
1 votes:

Mog32Kupo: Joe


"G'bye, Joe!"

/also in the episode covering Werewolf
//"That was absolutely fascinating."
2013-04-21 09:49:57 PM  
1 votes:

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


I suspect that, at the moment, they're less focused on a confession than wanting to know if there are more people involved (and therefore whether more attacks are possible).
2013-04-21 09:46:15 PM  
1 votes:
Send the kid to Pyongyang. Tell him that we will reduce his charges to murder 1 and he will live out his life in a federal prison.. but only if he manages to nuke Fat Kim and most (if not all) of the DPRK's government officials in Pyongyang. Kill two birds with one stone.
2013-04-21 09:44:12 PM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".
2013-04-21 09:39:56 PM  
1 votes:
Are you feeling any discomfort? Would you like a Tylenol? OK, this is meant to be taken orally but due to your throat injury, we are going to have an orderly insert it like a suppository but all the way up to your stomach. Shaq, are you ready to administer the pain medicine?
2013-04-21 09:30:40 PM  
1 votes:

ZAZ: A politician was blowing his mouth off. They do that sometimes. A military trial would have to be based on the global war on terror and the 2001 authorization for use of military force against terrorists. At this point there isn't any evidence of international terrorism or even domestic terrorism. Terrorism is not the same as killing a lot of people.


This.  Right now, it's a mass murder incident.
2013-04-21 09:25:35 PM  
1 votes:

JerseyTim: He just drew a picture of Kevin Spacey.


i132.photobucket.com
2013-04-21 09:22:21 PM  
1 votes:

namatad: this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...


.What? Do you think he's going to thumb his nose at everyone while tiptoeing through the tulips? He will never have his freedom again even if he does go free. He will be in the crosshairs of every vigilante with a weapon sharper than a butter knife. (And this is Boston where everyone is a vigilante after a few beers.) The kid will never be able to sleep with both eyes closed again. His best bet is to behind the protection of the cops and courts. Outside of jail is a guaranteed death sentence for him.
2013-04-21 09:20:58 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.



Sadly, I think you're right but until it's declared to fall under the NDAA, they have to treat it like any other criminal felony case.
2013-04-21 09:19:47 PM  
1 votes:

Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.


I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.
2013-04-21 09:18:28 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.


Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.
2013-04-21 09:16:23 PM  
1 votes:
Responding to question, Columbia is interviewing him already?
2013-04-21 09:13:50 PM  
1 votes:

ZAZ: The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


They used a bomb.  That makes it federal.  I suppose they could charge him in both jurisdictions, but I think the feds would take the lead.
2013-04-21 09:00:33 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.
2013-04-21 08:56:39 PM  
1 votes:
Dear Darla,

I hate your stinking guts. You're the scum between my toes.

Love, Alfalfa.
2013-04-21 08:51:49 PM  
1 votes:
i140.photobucket.com

/*ding, ding*
2013-04-21 08:47:08 PM  
1 votes:

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.
2013-04-21 08:40:40 PM  
1 votes:
Stupid Fartbongo should have just wiped the guy out with a drone.  Now he's gonna write literature and recruit new terrorists and we'll all be farked.
 
Displayed 177 of 177 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report