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(USA Today)   Boston Bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is awake and responding to questions via writing   (usatoday.com) divider line 561
    More: Followup, Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, Boston, Michael McCaul, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Massachusetts State Police, Boston Police, law enforcement officials  
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18427 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 9:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-21 11:57:01 PM

incrdbil: Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?

That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat.


Wait, I thought he was "white hat"?
 
2013-04-21 11:57:19 PM
i236.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-21 11:59:08 PM

itazurakko: They're doing an autopsy, and as of yet no charges have been decided on anyway.

But if you shoot a dead guy (proven dead at time of shooting) then no it's not murder. This guy has so many wounds though they probably can't even tell. Also it's not as if him killing his accomplice is really going to make any difference. The two of them resulted in the death of 4 uninvolved people, is the number I was interested in.


He was not dead. He was struggling and he was being subdued by officers who were trying to handcuff him. He was still alive in the ambulance and was declared dead later in the hospital. Your analogy just fails to be remotely comparable.

And well there's the added psychological torture of being charged with, and condemned for, the death of his own brother.

The guy saw Martin just standing there, and he put down the bag. He stayed to survey the damages and was smiling. He tweeted mocking things about the victims, and went to the gym and a party the next day. He won't care being charged for those crimes. The murder of his brother, on the other hand? That could very well shake him.

Especially if they force him to go through forensic experts and picture of his dead brother and explanations to how he killed him in painfully intricate details.
 
2013-04-21 11:59:16 PM

Tatsuma: incrdbil: That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat. I want him to get the death penalty, but I also want to get any information from him if there was any support or assistace from others involved in this case. So giving him a choice of living conditions until his sentence is carried out could be one method to get to that goal.

Do you not think that having him spend the rest of his life 23 hours a day in a cell with only a view toward the sky, no one to talk to (and unable to in the first place) and nothing to do for the next 70 years at least much worse than just giving him the death penalty?


Not really.  Inmates on death row who keep lodging appeal after appeal and fighting the sentence seem to discredit the 'death is preferable' argument.
 
2013-04-21 11:59:17 PM

Weaver95: if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.


If?  The FBI has stopped a dozen muslim bomb plots in the past 2 years.  The only thing new about this guy is he succeeded.
 
2013-04-21 11:59:57 PM
If they can prove he joined or was part of any organization that is inimical to the United States prior to or subsequently after he became a citizen, that citizenship can be revoked. At that point some things change as to what they can do.

Excerpt below from the USC and INA regulations.

Various acts occurring after naturalization are, by law, evidence of misrepresentation or suppression at time of naturalization. For example, if a naturalized citizen joins a subversive organization within five years of becoming a citizen and membership in that group would have precluded eligibility for naturalization under the INA, then the joining of the organization is held to be a rebuttable presumption that naturalization was obtained by concealing or misrepresenting how attached to the United States the citizen was when naturalized.
Part of the process for becoming a United States citizen is the taking of an oath
"absolutely and entirely" renouncing any allegiance or fidelity to any other country. United States naturalization, in combination with the oath of absolute allegiance, may result in loss of foreign nationality under the pertinent foreign laws. Furthermore, United States naturalization may be revoked if illegally or fraudulently obtained. Any exercise of foreign citizenship subsequent to United States naturalization may be evidence of misrepresentation in taking the oath of allegiance and thus potential grounds for denaturalization.
 
2013-04-22 12:01:16 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: If? The FBI has stopped a dozen muslim bomb plots in the past 2 years. The only thing new about this guy is he succeeded.


A dozen? Try about 30-40 at this point, easily.
 
2013-04-22 12:01:21 AM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: saturn badger: stoli n coke: No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.

Not actually true.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest

Jesus Christ.  Again?!  NOBODY knows at this point if they've read him his rights or not.  They're saying he's responding to questioning right now.  That could mean questions like "are you Dzhokhar Tsarvaev."  "Do you know where you are?"  "Do you know why you're here?"

The Public Safety Exception to Miranda is there to prevent the imminent danger that a person just arrested might have information of.  For instance, if he'd been stopped right after the bomb went off, asking him if there was another bomb and where it was and him answering would fall under the PSE.  It is NOT a prong by which they can ask questions, at all phases of the investigation, and they all fall under that exception.  It is a very narrowly defined principle. It's also not like they say some magic words and the statements are automatically admissible.  A judge still rules whether or not those statements made will be admissible.

If he's been in the hospital for several days, that exception WILL NOT APPLY.  Before he is interviewed, he WILL be read Miranda.

The whole "we're not going to Mirandize him right now" came from ONE official, while the suspect was en-route to the hospital, who didn't know his medical condition, and was speaking in very general terms when asked about whether or not there were others as part of the plot/bombing.  The official was saying that they'd ask him questions about that.  Then when asked about Miranda, he made a statement about the PSE.  Now all these farking idiots on the TV are debating t ...


Not sure why you are so upset. I was merely correcting the fact his statements can be used in a court of law. It doesn't matter if he has been read his rights or not. I was clarifying that if not they can still be used against him.

Lighten up, dude, and read what was actually being said. Apparently you missed the point of the post.
 
2013-04-22 12:02:36 AM

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


Oh I hope. I really hope
 
2013-04-22 12:04:18 AM

Lionel Mandrake: Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?

Some people get very excited at the thought of brutal anal rape.  Don't ask me why.


Little man syndrome? Hey! That could be it.
 
2013-04-22 12:06:14 AM

rufus-t-firefly: The Stealth Hippopotamus: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.

That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.


Not only that, but this group also is the loudest to proclaim moral superiority and godliness.

Morals and values only count when you do them when the choice is hard.  It is easy when you have a $1,000 dollars in the bank and a steady income to not steal needed items.  WHen you are dead broke, with hungry kids and no prospects, it because harder to resist that temptation to go against the values and morals you trumpet.

Just like in this case.  I want justice.  I want revenge.  But that is tempered with the fact that I value what I was taught as to what makes us different.  We are not supposed to torture people or punish them without due process.  I understand that terrible nature of what this person seems to have done.  But if don't stick to our values or morals when it is hardest for us to do so, those values and morals have no meaning.

Let the process work.  Treat this guy with the legal deference we all would want should we be accused of a crime. Because if we can do it when it is hardest for us to do so, then we really do set the example and we do become the city on the hill that some have claimed us to be.
 
2013-04-22 12:07:13 AM
I still think it was someone in the tea party.
 
2013-04-22 12:08:04 AM

ArcadianRefugee: incrdbil: Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?

That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat.

Wait, I thought he was "white hat"?


Well done sir.
 
2013-04-22 12:08:10 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: If? The FBI has stopped a dozen muslim bomb plots in the past 2 years. The only thing new about this guy is he succeeded.

A dozen? Try about 30-40 at this point, easily.


Yes, it's more than a dozen.  I didn't feel like counting.  Didn't seem like 40 though.  Many of the Muslims caught by the FBI have been other terrorist activities (other than explosives) involving shooting, or simply funneling to known terrorist groups overseas.
 
2013-04-22 12:10:02 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Yes, it's more than a dozen. I didn't feel like counting. Didn't seem like 40 though. Many of the Muslims caught by the FBI have been other terrorist activities (other than explosives) involving shooting, or simply funneling to known terrorist groups overseas.


My bad, it said 'past 2 years' and I did not see that. I meant since 9/11
 
2013-04-22 12:11:25 AM
If they have some other means of getting his cooperation to get information, I hope they use it.  I just would hate to see a deal that spares him his life.  He has no reason to cooperate really, other than avoiding the death penalty. He knows he'll never be free again.
 
2013-04-22 12:12:11 AM
Tell him we're going to execute him and then bury him upside down with his head in a bucket of menstrual waste for all eternity.  Wouldn't accomplish anything, but it might be fun to see his reaction..
 
2013-04-22 12:12:49 AM

Tatsuma: He was not dead. He was struggling and he was being subdued by officers who were trying to handcuff him. He was still alive in the ambulance and was declared dead later in the hospital. Your analogy just fails to be remotely comparable.


It actually matters what specific injuries did the fatal blow if you're trying to solve who killed a person.  Happens in crime investigations all the time.  In this case, probably not many people care who actually ended up killing the older brother. He was doomed either way. You might say his own actions brought it on.

Here, what matters is that the two people did a spree that killed four unrelated people.  One of the two then died during.  I had thought someone was claiming five unrelated people, but no, turns it out was in fact four.  Those four are more than enough for this guy to never see freedom.

Yes, they bombed people and didn't care.  They're mass murderers. It happens.  I mean, it was only back in December that a guy shot 20 first graders at school, right?

I don't think the younger brother is going to consider himself responsible for older brother's death anyway, even with the running over. The guy was doomed, and this way avoided prison.  Little brother apparently tried to kill himself too (but failed), from his POV probably older brother is lucky. But who knows.
 
2013-04-22 12:13:05 AM
Ax him if he knows anything about the fertilizer blast in Texas. It was Wednesday. He had time. Oh, yeah.
 
2013-04-22 12:13:30 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: Yes, it's more than a dozen. I didn't feel like counting. Didn't seem like 40 though. Many of the Muslims caught by the FBI have been other terrorist activities (other than explosives) involving shooting, or simply funneling to known terrorist groups overseas.

My bad, it said 'past 2 years' and I did not see that. I meant since 9/11


You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all.  It's just too depressing.  Here's a list covering 2009-2012.    http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef
 
2013-04-22 12:15:32 AM

Warlordtrooper: I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state.  McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level.  But this incident was purely done inside a single state.


Not for bombs.  Check out Section I, although Section E also has restrictions for intrastate use or manufacture of explosives.

The feds can still nab you for alcohol distillery as well, even if you don't transport it outside of your state.
 
2013-04-22 12:16:11 AM

DoctorCal: saturn badger: Sometimes it pays to argue a point to maybe, just maybe, educate someone.

You did try, and a basic point it was. The next bit that seems desperately in need of illumination is the scope of population to whom the protections of the Constitution apply. ;-)


Not sure I want to tackle that one. Seems like a lost cause. Lots of derp here that want to hang him without due process.

They will be very careful in this one. I could not be on the jury because I think he is guilty and given the taint of the media coverage I'm not sure they can find an impartial jury. How they are going to find a jury is beyond me. And I am 3k miles away.
 

So this is indeed a problem. Where can you move the trial to do it as a constitutional right to a fair trial?

That is a tough one.
 
2013-04-22 12:16:20 AM

jaytkay: Lsherm: jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?

They shot him because shots were fired from the boat.  After reading some articles today, it appears he shot himself, but police probably thought he was shooting at them.

No, I asked how the MIT cop came across them, and why did they shoot the MIT cop?

Someone suggested the cop was at the 7-11 but I looked and he was shot elsewhere. MAP


The 7-eleven (7-11) robbery had nothing to do with the suspects, but news sources confused it and thought the security stills of them were from that robbery. They were actually from a gas station the suspects stopped at over an hour later. I guess it's possible the MIT cop was the officer who responded to the 7-Eleven robbery and that's where the confusion stems from, but I haven't read that.

It appears the MIT cop was just killed for no reason, or for the same reason they killed marathon spectators. They just walked up to him and killed him. Seems dumb if you're not trying to get caught, so maybe they thought he recognized them (source doesn't say). I dunno why they didn't kill the owner of the car they stole, unless they wanted to go to more ATMs with him. They were caught by police tracking the guys cell phone (in the car) after he escaped and reported them. I imagine we'll know more, and the story will be changed/corrected in the coming days.

Source
 
2013-04-22 12:17:31 AM

Lsherm: Warlordtrooper: I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state.  McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level.  But this incident was purely done inside a single state.

Not for bombs.  Check out Section I, although Section E also has restrictions for intrastate use or manufacture of explosives.

The feds can still nab you for alcohol distillery as well, even if you don't transport it outside of your state.


Sorry, Section J and K are more relevant.  particularly section K:   5.Bombpublic places, § 2332f
 
2013-04-22 12:17:31 AM

ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


Herbert Hans Haupt was a US citizen who committed a crime within the United States, was caught in the United States and subjected to a Military tribunal.  The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that this was OK and he was subsequently executed.  I'm not saying that the facts and circumstances of this case merit him being eligible for enemy combatant treatment (only the justice department knows for sure), but you cannot summarily state that he would get a criminal trial just because he is a US citizen.
 
2013-04-22 12:19:20 AM

gaspode: If you are a proud American you should be very much demanding that this person is placed on public trial and treated exactly according to the law, that you can all see him held to account for what he did.

Anything else IS un-american, if that term has any meaning at all. You are supposed to be BETTER than these guys.


not to quibble here, but it's not about being 'better' or 'more American' than anyone else, it's about following our system. Hell, it's about recognizing we have a system to deal with anyone accused of a crime.

this guy hasn't been found guilty of anything. he's been caught because he was a suspect. let's let the system work the way its designed. and instead of making it a pretense of Miranda, let's actually give him Miranda. Instead of focusing solely on 'miranda' which is really only about your right to counsel, let's give him legal representation. And if the evidence isn't conclusive, let's let him go.

the full weight of the federal and state governments are crashing down on this guy, so the public doesn't need to pile on and salivate over his potential death penalty. we should respect his rights because he is a citizen.
 
2013-04-22 12:20:50 AM

Lionel Mandrake: JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.

So the big, bad "conservatives" can jerk off to their torture porn.  It makes them feel tough, manly, and not the type to put up with anybody's shiat!!  *SNORT*

Or maybe they just have no faith in that Constitution they're always claiming to care about.


Who controls the justice department again?

I just got trolled didn't I?
 
2013-04-22 12:21:02 AM
Maybe I'm alone, but I WANT there to be a trial.
I want to know why these two did what they did.
I want to hear it directly from him.
And I want him to have full due process.
And, assuming the jury comes back with guilty, I want him to be tossed down the same hole we tossed Charles Manson down. No hope of getting out.
 
2013-04-22 12:21:43 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef


... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.
 
2013-04-22 12:22:05 AM

Tatsuma: Do you not think that having him spend the rest of his life 23 hours a day in a cell with only a view toward the sky, no one to talk to (and unable to in the first place) and nothing to do for the next 70 years at least much worse than just giving him the death penalty?


I toured Alcatraz. The thought of being in solitary confinement while listening to the new years parties in the city would be kinda like torture.
 
2013-04-22 12:22:21 AM

SilentStrider: I want to hear it directly from him.


... I've got some bad news for you
 
2013-04-22 12:23:29 AM

DoctorCal: Reminds me of the joke about the 9-1-1 call.

"I think my buddy's dead!"
"Well, go make sure!"
distant gunshot
"Ok, I'm sure!"


Max! They got Max!

/probably not obscure
 
2013-04-22 12:24:03 AM
And it's not just guys sitting in their bedrooms saying 'Wouldn't it be awesome if Americans just died? LOL'

Those were people pressing buttons thinking that they were about to kill many civilians like those two brothers did.
 
2013-04-22 12:24:43 AM

StopLurkListen: Naturalized United States citizens can have their citizenship revoked.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 235x165]


www.hayspost.com
 
2013-04-22 12:25:31 AM

phojo1946: If he is tried in federal court and convicted with a death sentence, can he be hanged or must he be given the i.v. death sentence?  In the military I believe it is still hanging but I do not know about regular federal courts.


Many people die on death row of old age. It is not a swift deal.
 
2013-04-22 12:25:51 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


Yep.  It kinda makes me wonder what planet people are living on when they scream and shout about anyone suggesting a particular plot might be Muslims or foreigners.  Apparently they simply aren't aware of reality.

On the other hand, it does give one a good feeling about just how effective the FBI is.  They get a bad rap because people only hear about the the few they don't stop, like this one.
 
2013-04-22 12:26:38 AM

DrPainMD: Weaver95: we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.

Just as soon as we can bring this guy back to life so we can hire him to do the job. After all, he taught the CIA everything it knows.

[www.bitsofnews.com image 296x472]


bah.

this guy's local:

t1.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-22 12:27:20 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


It may be more scary that they've stopped all of them. Either they're handing out thousands of wiretapping/tracking warrants or people are being tracked without warrants. Or do they even need warrants to tap Muslims' phones and internet, and track their cars nowadays?
 
2013-04-22 12:28:09 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


Welcome to the disturbing world we live in. It's not a nice place all the time. But it is better to acknowledge the reality than hide from numbers that refuse to be politically correct.
 
2013-04-22 12:28:27 AM
Actually, everyone should be sad for these guys. They're so weak-minded that they either (1) got used by someone else, or (2) were so dumb that they didn't have a plan to get away, or (3) both.

The problem now is that, after knowing what we know about these guys, it's more likely that this was an operational test. That's sort of unfortunate.
 
2013-04-22 12:31:01 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: On the other hand, it does give one a good feeling about just how effective the FBI is.


The FBI has been pretty effective running "close to entrapment" investigations for the past 10 years.  Once they get on your trail, they'll orchestrate an "attack" you can take part in and wait for you to hang yourself.

There have been many complaints about whether or not an attack would actually be carried out without the FBI's involvement, but it seems to work pretty well at sussing out people who mean to do harm.
 
2013-04-22 12:31:11 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Yep. It kinda makes me wonder what planet people are living on when they scream and shout about anyone suggesting a particular plot might be Muslims or foreigners. Apparently they simply aren't aware of reality.


And the saddest thing is that still, the overwhelming (we're talking 99% of Muslims) in  America are appalled by these things. Probably 1% or less would be favorable to these, and even a smaller percentage would be ready to take action. Yet that leaves us with thousand potential terrorists. Which leads us to:

On the other hand, it does give one a good feeling about just how effective the FBI is. They get a bad rap because people only hear about the the few they don't stop, like this one.

thank G-d for that. Not only for all the lives that were saved, but also for the fact that if even 10% of these plots had succeeded, you could bet that life for Muslims in America would actually take a turn for the negative.

Again, I really want to just bury those numbers and pretend they don't exist.
 
2013-04-22 12:32:16 AM

garkola: Actually, everyone should be sad for these guys. They're so weak-minded that they either (1) got used by someone else, or (2) were so dumb that they didn't have a plan to get away, or (3) both.


I think you really don't get Islamic terrorism if you think that 'plans to get away with it' plays any part in the decision.
 
2013-04-22 12:35:38 AM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.


So, someone works in a carpentry shop for a month building a cabinet. I could either take it by force. Or I could pay them for their effort. The law says I should pay them for it, to compensate them for their toil. Someone knits and sells a sweater. Law says I can't just take it, I have to compensate them for their time and effort and expense. Why? Because it's just. Because it evens the score.

So, Dzhokhar. He blew the limbs off a lot of adults. And some children. Embedded shrapnel in others. He should pay some kind of price for that right? He had his fun, but those people's pain is not free. So should he pay any price at all? Why?

My answer is yes. He should pay a price commensurate to the pain he inflicted. That's why I'd like to see him suffer.

Some call it "enlightenment" to not punish criminals. Or to give them slaps on the wrist relative to their crimes. I don't call that enlightenment. I call it decadence and societal decay.
 
2013-04-22 12:36:25 AM

gaspode: If you are a proud American you should be very much demanding that this person is placed on public trial and treated exactly according to the law, that you can all see him held to account for what he did.

Anything else IS un-american, if that term has any meaning at all. You are supposed to be BETTER than these guys.


Truth.  Due Process must take place with even the worst criminals, or we are no better than anyone else.
 
2013-04-22 12:36:38 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


Per capita, few Mulsims are terrorists.

The overwhelming majority of terrorists are Muslims.

It's a cultural thing.
 
2013-04-22 12:42:27 AM

Tatsuma: I think you really don't get Islamic terrorism if you think that 'plans to get away with it' plays any part in the decision.


The Boston Marathon bombings were only Islamic terrorism if saying so can somehow be used to support Obama.

/otherwise it was right-wing teabaggers
//seriously, Chris Matthews can go from talking about the Islamic connection, to denying it, to accusing Scott Walker of having a hand in the whole plot, in the same sentence
 
2013-04-22 12:42:51 AM

doglover: The overwhelming majority of terrorists are Muslims.


Except when Reagan is arming and funding them. Then they're freedom fighters, right?
 
2013-04-22 12:43:39 AM

JungleBoogie: Some call it "enlightenment" to not punish criminals. Or to give them slaps on the wrist relative to their crimes. I don't call that enlightenment. I call it decadence and societal decay.


Yes, you are right.

But to willfully torture and inflict pain as revenge? You might call that justice, I call that barbarism.
 
2013-04-22 12:50:39 AM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


25.media.tumblr.com

You have said it better than I've been trying to.  We are supposed to be better than "them".
Unfortuantely in the past 12 years there has been a group of people who have been trying to destroy this country. They, however are not "them", but they aren't Us either. We have a chance to take our country back from those who really are trying to wreck it. I hope we don't let this opportunity be squandered.
 
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