Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.
Voiceofreason01: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.Then we could make everything a "terror" offense then we can kick out all the brown people then we can just get rid of civil rights altogether./that might be a very stupid idea
hubiestubert: I find it interesting that folks who have screamed loud and long about the Second Amendment, seem to really dislike the First, and now the 5th and 6th.
BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?
Gyrfalcon: AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison. He killed a child. That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.Great Janitor:As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts. If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case. Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?What kind of a stupid question is that? We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen. Whether he is evil or not is what the courts are there to decide.Anwar Al-Awlaki says no, definitely not, from beyond the grave.
Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.Oh yeah? Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.
Tatsuma: neenerist: You have no idea that doesn't change the point, do you? BTW, how old are those definitons? Care to guess?Rather recent, and that's how they are still prosecuted today.You made a stupid post, everyone agrees that an IED inside a pressure cooker is a WMD under the legal definition, just move, stop digging.
Lsherm: ZAZ: The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).They used a bomb. That makes it federal. I suppose they could charge him in both jurisdictions, but I think the feds would take the lead.
dr_blasto: Simply confusing mass with energy.
itazurakko: The shooting of the MIT cop happened shortly after the 7/11 but yeah, turns out not even near it? That really is extra WTF.Who's the fifth murder victim, though? Brother doesn't count, surely? (It's going to take an autopsy to even determine what killed him among the vast amount of choice injuries.) They got three at the marathon, plus the MIT cop, almost killed the transit cop but he was saved, it seems like.
Bisu: Or is he confusing mass with matter?
Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.
Warlordtrooper: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?Um why would this be a miltary court?
Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American. Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others. As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction). In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him, even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury). I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be. You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings. Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.///So yeah, I can practice ...
Samwise Gamgee: That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.
incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.
sirrerun: popesballs: Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due timeNo. He got life.
Tatsuma: Samwise Gamgee: That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.Guess what, the legal definition of WMDs on American soil has nothing to do with the international agreed definition when it comes to warfare.Two bombs filled with nails that kill 3 and injure 170+ while causing widespread destruction sure sound like 'weapons of mass destruction' to me. Just because they didn't kill more doesn't negate the fact.Might as well say that dirty bombs are not WMDs because they don't kill people immediately, just makes them sick.
Tatsuma: Could he be stripped of his citizenship? After all, he's only been a citizen since September 11, 2012.If they prove that he and his brothers had been planning this beforehand, could they say that he lied when he took the oath, and therefore strip it from him?
BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.Yes, that is correct, criminal and civil courts are very different. Civi (no L) does not mean civil (has an L), though - civi (no L) is slang for civilian. So a "civi court" (no L) means either state or federal criminal court.
torquestripe: Reliable sources say he ran over his brother while the police were handcuffing said brother. Yeah, it's five.
Warlordtrooper: I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state. McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level. But this incident was purely done inside a single state.
torquestripe: So you are a lawyer! Damn.
hubiestubert: Even if he IS stripped of his citizenship, he can still be put on trial.
saturn badger: stoli n coke: No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.Not actually true.http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest
itazurakko: But the brother may have already been doomed. He was pretty full of holes already.Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.
Ranger Rover: popesballs: Agree 100%. Any time you violate or propose to violate the rights of another citizen, you are creating a rod for your own back.Never in my life heard this phrase used before, but agree one hundred percent with the sentiment.
MontanaDave: Also, there are civilian courts where both criminal and civil actions are heard. Not sure about military courts and civil procedings, b ut I suppose it's possible.
Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?
saturn badger: Sometimes it pays to argue a point to maybe, just maybe, educate someone.
Tozmo: Will Sgt Fury interrogate him?
puffy999: ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?Oh, good.You know who else wasn't tried?
Tatsuma: itazurakko: But the brother may have already been doomed. He was pretty full of holes already.Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.Irrelevant.Imagine that a guy cuts another guy's femoral artery. Another guy comes and shoots him in the head. Do you really think the second guy will not be prosecuted for murder if he says 'Well, officer, he was going to die for sure anyway!'
incrdbil: Here a potential completely under the table plea deal: Death penaly, or Death penalty. Cooperate, and he gets the Death Penalty..at a Supermax, where he will be protected and get good treatment through years and years of appeals. Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.
incrdbil: That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat. I want him to get the death penalty, but I also want to get any information from him if there was any support or assistace from others involved in this case. So giving him a choice of living conditions until his sentence is carried out could be one method to get to that goal.
Tatsuma: Imagine that a guy cuts another guy's femoral artery. Another guy comes and shoots him in the head. Do you really think the second guy will not be prosecuted for murder if he says 'Well, officer, he was going to die for sure anyway!'
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