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(USA Today)   Boston Bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is awake and responding to questions via writing   (usatoday.com) divider line 561
    More: Followup, Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, Boston, Michael McCaul, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Massachusetts State Police, Boston Police, law enforcement officials  
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18426 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 9:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-21 11:33:12 PM
Could he be stripped of his citizenship? After all, he's only been a citizen since September 11, 2012.

If they prove that he and his brothers had been planning this beforehand, could they say that he lied when he took the oath, and therefore strip it from him?
 
2013-04-21 11:33:24 PM

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


Actually, due to the Organized Crime Control Act, 18 U.S.C.A. 841-848, which places bombings under federal jurisdiction, you're wrong on this account *and* OKC.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:29 PM
The shooting of the MIT cop happened shortly after the 7/11 but yeah, turns out not even near it?  That really is extra WTF.

Who's the fifth murder victim, though?  Brother doesn't count, surely? (It's going to take an autopsy to even determine what killed him among the vast amount of choice injuries.)  They got three at the marathon, plus the MIT cop, almost killed the transit cop but he was saved, it seems like.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:51 PM

Voiceofreason01: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

Then we could make everything a "terror" offense then we can kick out all the brown people then we can just get rid of civil rights altogether.

/that might be a very stupid idea


I doubt this particular complaint would bear out; I don't see courts being amenable to that for white collar crimes, domestic or drug-related murder, etc, it's a slippery slope argument that reality wouldn't bear out. But as for stretching the boundaries of things like bank robbery, domestic mass murder like Newtown, etc, it's definitely a worry.

The bigger worry is setting the precedent for different classes of American citizens. I think one or the other, either you're a citizen or you're not, is the way to go. Introducing variable classes of citizenship is the hallmark of scary governments everywhere.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:55 PM

hubiestubert: I find it interesting that folks who have screamed loud and long about the Second Amendment, seem to really dislike the First, and now the 5th and 6th.


Well, holding books and warrants and shiat doesn't make you look like a bad-ass the way holding a gun does!

and ain't no speedy trial gonna save us from tyranny!!
 
2013-04-21 11:34:25 PM

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


Um why would this be a miltary court?
 
2013-04-21 11:35:36 PM

Gyrfalcon: AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?

What kind of a stupid question is that? We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen. Whether he is evil or not is what the courts are there to decide.

Anwar Al-Awlaki  says no, definitely not, from beyond the grave.

 
2013-04-21 11:36:38 PM

Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.


Energy still has mass... thats that pesky E=mc² thing...
 
2013-04-21 11:36:43 PM

Tatsuma: neenerist: You have no idea that doesn't change the point, do you? BTW, how old are those definitons? Care to guess?

Rather recent, and that's how they are still prosecuted today.

You made a stupid post, everyone agrees that an IED inside a pressure cooker is a WMD under the legal definition, just move, stop digging.


That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.
 
2013-04-21 11:37:14 PM

Lsherm: ZAZ: The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

They used a bomb.  That makes it federal.  I suppose they could charge him in both jurisdictions, but I think the feds would take the lead.


I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state.  McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level.  But this incident was purely done inside a single state.
 
2013-04-21 11:37:50 PM

dr_blasto: Simply confusing mass with energy.


Or is he confusing mass with matter?
 
2013-04-21 11:38:00 PM
Here a potential completely under the table plea deal: Death penaly, or Death penalty. Cooperate, and he gets the Death Penalty..at a Supermax, where he will be protected and get good treatment through years and years of appeals.  Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.
 
2013-04-21 11:38:40 PM
When they charge him, they should charge him with his brother's murder as well... after all, he drove over him...

//slap to his face
 
2013-04-21 11:39:01 PM

itazurakko: The shooting of the MIT cop happened shortly after the 7/11 but yeah, turns out not even near it?  That really is extra WTF.

Who's the fifth murder victim, though?  Brother doesn't count, surely? (It's going to take an autopsy to even determine what killed him among the vast amount of choice injuries.)  They got three at the marathon, plus the MIT cop, almost killed the transit cop but he was saved, it seems like.


Reliable sources say he ran over his brother while the police were handcuffing said  brother. Yeah, it's five.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:17 PM

Bisu: Or is he confusing mass with matter?


Like Jonestown?
 
2013-04-21 11:39:17 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.


If they let him walk, he wouldn't live more than a day.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:22 PM

Warlordtrooper: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Um why would this be a miltary court?


Apparently the thought makes ITGs feel manly.  They get chubbies over the idea of bravely denying the guy his rights.  And the thought he might be tortured gets them giddy.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:55 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Bless your heart for writing this. Regardless of what drove him to these acts, we must still maintain some semblance of morality. To the farker who was upset he was getting medical treatment, physicians are healers, and one of their duties is to "never do harm", no matter who their patient is.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:59 PM

Samwise Gamgee: That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.


Guess what, the legal definition of WMDs on American soil has nothing to do with the international agreed definition when it comes to warfare.

Two bombs filled with nails that kill 3 and injure 170+ while causing widespread destruction sure sound like 'weapons of mass destruction' to me. Just because they didn't kill more doesn't negate the fact.

Might as well say that dirty bombs are not WMDs because they don't kill people immediately, just makes them sick.
 
2013-04-21 11:41:32 PM

incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.


Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?
 
2013-04-21 11:42:12 PM

sirrerun: popesballs: Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due time

No. He got life.


We're just executing him real slooooow.

/sarcasm off
 
2013-04-21 11:42:58 PM

Tatsuma: Samwise Gamgee: That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.

Guess what, the legal definition of WMDs on American soil has nothing to do with the international agreed definition when it comes to warfare.

Two bombs filled with nails that kill 3 and injure 170+ while causing widespread destruction sure sound like 'weapons of mass destruction' to me. Just because they didn't kill more doesn't negate the fact.

Might as well say that dirty bombs are not WMDs because they don't kill people immediately, just makes them sick.


So you are a lawyer! Damn.
 
2013-04-21 11:43:06 PM

Tatsuma: Could he be stripped of his citizenship? After all, he's only been a citizen since September 11, 2012.

If they prove that he and his brothers had been planning this beforehand, could they say that he lied when he took the oath, and therefore strip it from him?


Even if he IS stripped of his citizenship, he can still be put on trial.

Ramzi Yousef-Captured in Pakistan, convicted for role in Bojinka plot in 1996, convicted for role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence.

Wali Khan Amin Shah-Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Abdul Hakim Ali Hashim Murad - Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Eyad Ismoil - Captured in Amman, extradited to US, convicted of role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Khalfan Khamis Mohamed-Captured in Cape Town, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mahmud Abouhalima-Captured in Egypt, convicted of 1993 WTC bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali-Convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Odeh-Captured in Karachi, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed A. Salameh-Convicted of involvement in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Ali Hassan Al-Moayad-Captured in Germany, convicted of federal crimes related to funding Hamas, sent to ADX Florence


Apparently, Colorado hasn't disappeared in a geyser of radioactive vapor from all the pure EVIL concentrated there...
 
2013-04-21 11:43:30 PM

BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.

Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.

Yes, that is correct, criminal and civil courts are very different. Civi (no L) does not mean civil (has an L), though - civi (no L) is slang for civilian. So a "civi court" (no L) means either state or federal criminal court.


And that was the point I was trying to make here but got chastised for it. Whatever. This is like Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average and every farker is an expert at everything.

But it is in the details sometimes. Sometimes it pays to argue a point to maybe, just maybe, educate someone. Doesn't work much here for many but I admit many have taught me things in various threads. Others are facepalm.jpg.

But I do enjoy it sometimes just for its... fill in your own description. ;)
 
2013-04-21 11:43:45 PM

torquestripe: Reliable sources say he ran over his brother while the police were handcuffing said  brother. Yeah, it's five.


But the brother may have already been doomed.  He was pretty full of holes already.

Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.
 
2013-04-21 11:44:41 PM

Warlordtrooper: I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state. McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level. But this incident was purely done inside a single state.


Lots of crimes are Federal. Bank robbers and counterfeiters are tried in Federal court for example.

Here is a list somebody provided earlier in the thread - 48 crimes that can get you executed by the Feds:
Federal Laws Providing for the Death Penalty
 
2013-04-21 11:45:19 PM

torquestripe: So you are a lawyer! Damn.


Law degree comes with the Bar Mitzvah commemorative kippah

hubiestubert: Even if he IS stripped of his citizenship, he can still be put on trial.


Oh yeah no doubt about it, I just meant in a general sense. I imagine that stripping him of his citizenship (and a case could easily be made for it) would make things even easier for the federal government.

Though, with the Democrats in power and the immigration reform bill they want to pass, I doubt they'll go that route.
 
2013-04-21 11:46:42 PM

saturn badger: stoli n coke: No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.

Not actually true.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest


Jesus Christ.  Again?!  NOBODY knows at this point if they've read him his rights or not.  They're saying he's responding to questioning right now.  That could mean questions like "are you Dzhokhar Tsarvaev."  "Do you know where you are?"  "Do you know why you're here?"

The Public Safety Exception to Miranda is there to prevent the imminent danger that a person just arrested might have information of.  For instance, if he'd been stopped right after the bomb went off, asking him if there was another bomb and where it was and him answering would fall under the PSE.  It is NOT a prong by which they can ask questions, at all phases of the investigation, and they all fall under that exception.  It is a very narrowly defined principle. It's also not like they say some magic words and the statements are automatically admissible.  A judge still rules whether or not those statements made will be admissible.

If he's been in the hospital for several days, that exception WILL NOT APPLY.  Before he is interviewed, he WILL be read Miranda.

The whole "we're not going to Mirandize him right now" came from ONE official, while the suspect was en-route to the hospital, who didn't know his medical condition, and was speaking in very general terms when asked about whether or not there were others as part of the plot/bombing.  The official was saying that they'd ask him questions about that.  Then when asked about Miranda, he made a statement about the PSE.  Now all these farking idiots on the TV are debating the topic like it's some hot button issue.  It's not.

He'll be read his rights, period.
 
2013-04-21 11:46:46 PM

itazurakko: But the brother may have already been doomed. He was pretty full of holes already.

Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.


Irrelevant.

Imagine that a guy cuts another guy's femoral artery. Another guy comes and shoots him in the head. Do you really think the second guy will not be prosecuted for murder if he says 'Well, officer, he was going to die for sure anyway!'
 
2013-04-21 11:47:11 PM

incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.


Federal prisons are not medieval shiatholes like state prisons.
 
2013-04-21 11:47:25 PM

Ranger Rover: popesballs: Agree 100%. Any time you violate or propose to violate the rights of another citizen, you are creating a rod for your own back.

Never in my life heard this phrase used before, but agree one hundred percent with the sentiment.


It's from the great orator of our day: Christopher Hitchens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyoOfRog1EM">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=jyoOfRog1EM

Before him? I'm pretty certain the "creating a rod for your own back" phrase originally comes from one of the founding fathers. Maybe Jefferson, Madison, or Paine? I'd start there if I was wanting to know the real origin of it.
 
2013-04-21 11:48:39 PM
If it was Charades, I'd laugh. As the cops try to figure out his gestures.

"Okay, first word."


www.clker.com
 "Grip. Grab..............Grope............................strangle........... .......G! It's G!"

"Okay. Second word".

(Dzhokhar points towards his face)

"Nose!.......uhhhhhh......................lips!.........Bullet hole!......................booger!.......................Wait I know. Head. It's HEAD!"

"G! Head!"

"No. Wait. It sounds like "G Head""
 
2013-04-21 11:48:42 PM

MontanaDave: Also, there are civilian courts where both criminal and civil actions are heard. Not sure about military courts and civil procedings, b ut I suppose it's possible.


At the same time? I have not heard of this. I know there are both but they are separate entities.
 
2013-04-21 11:48:43 PM

Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?


Some people get very excited at the thought of brutal anal rape.  Don't ask me why.
 
2013-04-21 11:49:08 PM
Has the Iron sheik provided his assessment of the situation? Made somebody humble?
 
2013-04-21 11:49:24 PM
cameroncrazy1984: You gotta love how some people are like "America is the greatest country in the world!" until it comes to being scared, then they're like "Our laws shouldn't apply when we're afraid!"


i75.photobucket.com

i75.photobucket.com

fark yeah America!
 
2013-04-21 11:50:00 PM
How long before Hollywood makes a movie out of this?
 
2013-04-21 11:50:01 PM

saturn badger: Sometimes it pays to argue a point to maybe, just maybe, educate someone.


You did try, and a basic point it was. The next bit that seems desperately in need of illumination is the scope of population to whom the protections of the Constitution apply. ;-)
 
2013-04-21 11:50:17 PM

Tozmo: Will Sgt Fury interrogate him?


Kevin "in and out" Brennan might be the man for this.
 
2013-04-21 11:50:59 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Thank you for your service, and for your decency.

/Hope it's not as rare out there as it seems sometimes
//Yes, I know Fark isn't always the best place to measure
 
2013-04-21 11:51:04 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Thanks for writing that.  Much better then what I was planning to write the idiots that want to destroy our Constitution, laws, and morals to sate their blood lust.
 
2013-04-21 11:51:52 PM
Uh, people, can we chill with the whole 'let's hope he's raped and tortured!' thing?

I mean, I would have been the first one to nod and say 'well done' if he'd been on the receiving end of a buckshot to the groin during the firefight, but now the guy is in custody and well there are rights in this country, and laws, and things that can be done.

Prison rape is not a tool that should ever be cheered for, and torture should never be advocated, especially not against citizens on American soil

So, uh, yeah cut that shiat out please. I understand the sentiment but keep it to yourselves
 
2013-04-21 11:52:13 PM

puffy999: ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.

You know who else wasn't tried?


...Hitler? o_O
 
2013-04-21 11:52:46 PM

Tatsuma: itazurakko: But the brother may have already been doomed. He was pretty full of holes already.

Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.

Irrelevant.

Imagine that a guy cuts another guy's femoral artery. Another guy comes and shoots him in the head. Do you really think the second guy will not be prosecuted for murder if he says 'Well, officer, he was going to die for sure anyway!'


Reminds me of the joke about the 9-1-1 call.

"I think my buddy's dead!"
"Well, go make sure!"
distant gunshot
"Ok, I'm sure!"
 
2013-04-21 11:52:59 PM

incrdbil: Here a potential completely under the table plea deal: Death penaly, or Death penalty. Cooperate, and he gets the Death Penalty..at a Supermax, where he will be protected and get good treatment through years and years of appeals.  Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.


Don't be stupid. The guy is going to the supermax regardless because he is a terrorist. Because of the risk of an attempted escape and the influence he can have on other prisoners that is automatic.
 
2013-04-21 11:53:43 PM

Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?




That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat. I want him to get the death penalty, but I also want to get any information from him if there was any support or assistace from others involved in this case. So giving him a choice of living conditions until his sentence is carried out could be one method to get to that goal.
 
2013-04-21 11:55:08 PM

incrdbil: That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat. I want him to get the death penalty, but I also want to get any information from him if there was any support or assistace from others involved in this case. So giving him a choice of living conditions until his sentence is carried out could be one method to get to that goal.


Do you not think that having him spend the rest of his life 23 hours a day in a cell with only a view toward the sky, no one to talk to (and unable to in the first place) and nothing to do for the next 70 years at least much worse than just giving him the death penalty?
 
2013-04-21 11:55:28 PM

Tatsuma: Imagine that a guy cuts another guy's femoral artery. Another guy comes and shoots him in the head. Do you really think the second guy will not be prosecuted for murder if he says 'Well, officer, he was going to die for sure anyway!'


They're doing an autopsy, and as of yet no charges have been decided on anyway.

But if you shoot a dead guy (proven dead at time of shooting) then no it's not murder. This guy has so many wounds though they probably can't even tell.  Also it's not as if him killing his accomplice is really going to make any difference.  The two of them resulted in the death of 4 uninvolved people, is the number I was interested in.
 
2013-04-21 11:55:33 PM
If he is tried in federal court and convicted with a death sentence, can he be hanged or must he be given the i.v. death sentence?  In the military I believe it is still hanging but I do not know about regular federal courts.
 
2013-04-21 11:55:34 PM
If you are a proud American you should be very much demanding that this person is placed on public trial and treated exactly according to the law, that you can all see him held to account for what he did.

Anything else IS un-american, if that term has any meaning at all. You are supposed to be BETTER than these guys.
 
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