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(USA Today)   Boston Bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is awake and responding to questions via writing   (usatoday.com) divider line 561
    More: Followup, Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, Boston, Michael McCaul, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Massachusetts State Police, Boston Police, law enforcement officials  
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18427 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 9:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-21 10:49:12 PM

Tatsuma: Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

This is bullshiat.

You don't have to immediately read someone's Miranda Rights, especially not when they are in need of urgent medical assistance. There are multiple clauses when it can be delayed.

No one walks merely because they were not read their miranda rights, that's TV fiction


Ok chill out. It was just a question which you answered. Thanks

And other than a few tv broadcasts, I haven't watched TV since 2009.
 
2013-04-21 10:49:22 PM
currieddogfart.com
 
2013-04-21 10:49:26 PM

Lsherm: they have enough evidence otherwise to keep him in jail, particularly with the murder of the MIT officer.


Yes, they have enough evidence to put him away forever, but is there much on that? No witnesses or video that I've heard of.

Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?
 
2013-04-21 10:49:39 PM

dr_blasto: Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.

Yo don't get to walk simply because you weren't Mirandized. The results of not being informed of your rights would mean that any confession or evidence you provided may not be admissible in court. If that's the only evidence they have, then you might walk.


fortunately we have eye witnesses, video footage, still photos, forensic evidence and a ton of ready to throw bombs at their house and in their car. I don't think a confession is very necessary
 
2013-04-21 10:49:42 PM

skullkrusher: that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com


Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot I was viewing this article from the mirror site, everyonesanarmchairexpertoneverything.fark.com
 
2013-04-21 10:49:51 PM

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


for CHARGES?
 
2013-04-21 10:49:59 PM

jaytkay: The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".


Sorry, that made me LoL. If the goverment is permitted to twist kitchen appliances into WMDs, you have much greater worries than a couple of crazy Chechens.
 
2013-04-21 10:50:06 PM

Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

It doesn't say whether or not he's being interrogated.  It does say he's "not in any condition to be interrogated."  They might just be asking things like "Do you need any pillows" or whatever.

Then again, they might not be.


I believe they're trying to get confirmation that there are no more bombs somewhere in the city. Hence why his Miranda rights were not given
 
2013-04-21 10:50:28 PM

skullkrusher: awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.

that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com


That's weird, that URL redirects to Reddit.
 
2013-04-21 10:50:31 PM

Coastalgrl: Ok chill out. It was just a question which you answered. Thanks


... I wasn't being rude, I was just telling you that all of the people saying that he needs his miranda rights or he could walk are just saying a load of bullshiat, I wasn't insulting you.

knowless: wheres his lawyer?


He's being represented by the Feds.
 
2013-04-21 10:50:48 PM
www.charlock.org
 
2013-04-21 10:50:58 PM

Relatively Obscure: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

Because we're really mad or something and it's harder to do horrible things to citizens maybe.


It is in and of itself a punishment. I only brought it up as a part of the discussion on his rights, in a devils advocate role. It's amazing what you can learn here if you pay attention. Some people actually know things here.
 
2013-04-21 10:51:36 PM
I hope they ask him which Pony is his favourite.
 
2013-04-21 10:52:07 PM

HotWingAgenda: Relatively Obscure: Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.

Er.. no?

I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.


An object in motion kinda slows down.

In a closed system, energy fluctuates.

For every action, there's a reaction of some sort.
 
2013-04-21 10:52:13 PM

saturn badger: He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.


He did a good job of escaping a gunfight in view of half a dozen police.
 
2013-04-21 10:52:19 PM

awalkingecho: skullkrusher: that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com

Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot I was viewing this article from the mirror site, everyonesanarmchairexpertoneverything.fark.com


hehe nice
 
2013-04-21 10:52:31 PM

Tatsuma: He's being represented by the Feds.


So is Bradley Manning.
 
2013-04-21 10:53:09 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


It makes me wonder why people like that are proud of America and proud to be Americans.  I mean, if they think that America should strip rights from people and torture them, how can they be proud of that?  On the other hand, when I hear about people like you, who put yourself in danger, yet still maintain your principled American standards...that why I'm proud of America and proud to be American.  Thank you!
 
2013-04-21 10:53:50 PM

cretinbob: It's amazing what you can learn here if you pay attention. Some people actually know things here.


Now you're just making shiat up.
 
2013-04-21 10:54:23 PM

awalkingecho: skullkrusher: that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com

Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot I was viewing this article from the mirror site, everyonesanarmchairexpertoneverything.fark.com


i163.photobucket.com

You're an armchair!
 
2013-04-21 10:54:42 PM

jaytkay: saturn badger: He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.

He did a good job of escaping a gunfight in view of half a dozen police.


I actually really want to know how the hell that happened. Are the BPD bad shots and this looked like an 80s GIJOE cartoon or did these guys somehow have the best luck in the world?

/there may be truth to the BPD being bad shots
//apparently, their budget has been cut so much that they can only go to the range for training once a year
 
2013-04-21 10:55:51 PM

Tatsuma: ... I wasn't being rude


Calling someone's simple question 'bullshiat' is rude among normal people.
 
2013-04-21 10:56:38 PM
What a tragedy. If only these two brothers had had religion in their lives.
 
2013-04-21 10:57:00 PM
I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?
 
2013-04-21 10:57:19 PM

neenerist: Sorry, that made me LoL. If the goverment is permitted to twist kitchen appliances into WMDs, you have much greater worries than a couple of crazy Chechens.


You have no idea what a WMD is, do you? From wikipedia:

For the purposes of US Law, weapons of mass destruction are defined as
- any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses
- any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life
- any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector
- any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life

The Federal Bureau of Investigation's definition is similar to that presented above from the terrorism statute:

- any explosive or incendiary device: bomb, grenade, rocket, missile, mine or other decices with a charge of more than four ounces
- any weapons designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through release, dissemination or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors
- any weapons involving a disease organism
- any weapon designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life
- any device or weapon designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury by causing a malfunction of or destruction of an aircraft or other vehicle that carries humans or of an aircraft or other vehicle whose malfunction or destruction may cause said aircraft or other vehicle to cause death or serious bodily injury to humans who may be within range of the vector in its course of travel or the travel of its debris.

Meaning a pipe bomb or cactus needles coated with butolin toxic would be considered WMDs
 
2013-04-21 10:57:36 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?


Poorly?
 
2013-04-21 10:57:54 PM

NewportBarGuy: awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.

[i35.tinypic.com image 570x240]

When I was twelve, I helped my daddy build a bomb shelter in our basement because some fool parked a dozen warheads 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Well, this thing could park a coupla hundred warheads off Washington and New York and no one would know anything about it till it was all over.


god damn you.  now im gonna have to go and rewatch THfRO
 
2013-04-21 10:58:24 PM

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.


A WMD is defined, for legal purposes, as "any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses."

I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.
 
2013-04-21 10:58:27 PM

Mugato: What the shiat, man?


Cancer survivor with a trach, giving some anti-smoking PSA that runs on the air at least in IL.
 
2013-04-21 10:58:31 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?


He was unarmed when he was in custody because he left the gun in the boat/threw it overboard first before he surrendered willingly
 
2013-04-21 10:59:55 PM
Great post xyphoid.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:29 PM

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


Could be:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a

My understanding is bombs count for purposes of this law, but ain't sure.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:42 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


So he can be sent to gitmo for some cawk meat sammiches.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:43 PM
Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:55 PM

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.




Agree 100%. Any time you violate or propose to violate the rights of another citizen, you are creating a rod for your own back.

Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due time - that's good enough for me and it should be good enough for the civilized world. Or else, just why the hell do we suppose to be better than these terrorist pukes.
 
2013-04-21 11:01:09 PM

jaytkay: saturn badger: People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such.

Lighten up. Non-lawyers are not using proper legal terms. It happens.


Aside from the quote I didn't say sure. I'll let everyone use the improper terms as much as they like but is does clarify the conversation.

/carry on
 
2013-04-21 11:01:10 PM

Tatsuma: Meaning a pipe bomb or cactus needles coated with butolin toxic would be considered WMDs


WHEN ARE WE GOING TO BAN PRICKLY PEARS AND DENTED CANS?! HOW LONG MUST THIS GO ON?!
 
2013-04-21 11:01:14 PM

rkiller1: Or shooting his own brains out.


FWIW, I heard a news report today saying he may have "self-inflicted" wounds. It mentioned that one of the bullet wounds was in "the head/neck area" so it could be that he tried to do just what you posited.
 
2013-04-21 11:01:42 PM
Regarding reading him his Miranda Rights, I believe the worst that could happen would be that they wouldn't be able to use anything he tells them against him in court. But since they have photos, and possibly video, of him planting one of the bombs, it doesn't really matter what he does or doesn't tell them. He's spending the rest of his life in prison. The only question is how long that life lasts.
 
2013-04-21 11:02:58 PM

ISO15693: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

for CHARGES?


sure, at least temporarily.  Hey, if they think that's a deal-killer for their moving here, I can respect that.
 
2013-04-21 11:03:02 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice what I preach, even in the shiat.


De-lurking for the sole purpose of saying: "thank you, reasonable human person".
 
2013-04-21 11:03:13 PM

shower_in_my_socks: Regarding reading him his Miranda Rights, I believe the worst that could happen would be that they wouldn't be able to use anything he tells them against him in court. But since they have photos, and possibly video, of him planting one of the bombs, it doesn't really matter what he does or doesn't tell them. He's spending the rest of his life in prison. The only question is how long that life lasts.


And it's only before they tell him about his miranda rights anyway, which most likely has happened by now, so it's not like we won't be able to know anything until ten
 
2013-04-21 11:03:27 PM

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


I get the feeling right now the police/FBI/etc just want to know who ELSE they should be looking for.
 
2013-04-21 11:03:55 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.


I don't think you have to worry about that. Him walking? Not a chance.
 
2013-04-21 11:04:35 PM
Xypho:Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


THIS. If I could, I would shake your hand, Sir.. That sums up EXACTLY what I feel, especially after reading a lot of these "lynch mob mentality" posts.
/Lost my MOM on 9/11
//Didnt want blood
 
2013-04-21 11:04:38 PM

somedude210: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

It doesn't say whether or not he's being interrogated.  It does say he's "not in any condition to be interrogated."  They might just be asking things like "Do you need any pillows" or whatever.

Then again, they might not be.

I believe they're trying to get confirmation that there are no more bombs somewhere in the city. Hence why his Miranda rights were not given


Also, if he's on enough painkillers, reading him his Miranda rights might be pointless.

When I sold insurance, if someone where drunk or on drugs, I could not sell them insurance since the documents were considered contracts.  I'd imagine the same rules would be in place for who reading someone their rights.  Wouldn't want some defense lawyer arguing that because he wasn't of sound mind when his rights were read he was unaware of them.
 
2013-04-21 11:04:46 PM

comslave: Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.


so torture used by the US is good but torture used by anyone else is bad?
 
2013-04-21 11:05:31 PM
Some roaches run and hide. Some roaches dissemble and hide in plain view. Some roaches get caught and interrogated. Now, for some reason,more running and dissembling roaches are going to be caught and interrogated than prior to the events of this year's Boston marathon. Roach infestashuns kan be nasti.
 
2013-04-21 11:06:33 PM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.

A WMD is defined, for legal purposes, as "any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses."

I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.


Great! So my ass is a weapon of mass destruction when I eat at Taco Bell!?
 
2013-04-21 11:06:53 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.



No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.

Plus, right now, mirandizing him wouldn't do any good because his lawyer could always claim that any confession he gives would be groundless because he was heavily medicated and not in his right mind.

When he is out of the hospital and booked into jail, he will be mirandized and questioned. It's not that hard to understand. Unfortunately, people are freaking out because reality isn't playing out like a cop show.
 
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