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(USA Today)   Boston Bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is awake and responding to questions via writing   (usatoday.com) divider line 561
    More: Followup, Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, Boston, Michael McCaul, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Massachusetts State Police, Boston Police, law enforcement officials  
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18427 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 9:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-21 09:51:04 PM

AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?


If the laws already in place already have rules for what classifies someone as a terrorist, and if he fits those guidelines, then the rules aren't being bent 'cause the guy's evil'.  The guy is being held by the laws of the land.
 
2013-04-21 09:51:15 PM

ZeroCorpse: What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?


False.

thefarmclub.net
 
2013-04-21 09:51:30 PM

ambassador_ahab: Stupid Fartbongo should have just wiped the guy out with a drone.  Now he's gonna write literature and recruit new terrorists and we'll all be farked.


Haha yeah no his life as he knows it is over.

/I see your "Fartbongo." I see what you did there.
 
2013-04-21 09:51:32 PM

Mog32Kupo: Joe


"G'bye, Joe!"

/also in the episode covering Werewolf
//"That was absolutely fascinating."
 
2013-04-21 09:52:10 PM

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


Military or civil? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.
 
2013-04-21 09:52:10 PM

Weaver95: if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.  they know Tsarnaev will crack sooner or later and once he does, the Fed will come down on 'em all like a ton of bricks.


If there are other bombers/accomplices out there, I kinda expect they wouldn't let the younger brother know too much about who/where they are...
 
2013-04-21 09:53:39 PM
I thought Drew had a rule that we weren't to use these guy's real names and had to instead refer to them as some character from The Simpsons.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:24 PM

Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.


Trying to follow your logic.  It then follows that the younger brother should've committed suicide, as he had many chances including popping out of the boat like Rambo.  Or shooting his own brains out.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:31 PM

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


He'll be tried in a civil court, likely federal for the terrorism related crimes, and/or state for the murder related crimes.

There is literally no way that he'll be tried as an enemy combatant.  If we were in a declared war, with a clear enemy, and he was working as an agent for that enemy to attack us here, he'd be tried in a tribunal, most likely.

As is, he's an American citizen, who committed a very henous act of terrorism/murder.  That's it.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:33 PM

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


I think the meaning of what I initially wrote was misunderstood... I'm not arguing that it  should be moved to military court, or that it legally can be - one of the fun parts of being in the military is they make you learn a whole bunch o' the military's rules, so I know he does not qualify to be tried in a military tribunal. The last article I read about "who gets to try him" was early Saturday morning, and it sounded like more than a couple repubs wanted to get the Bush-era debates about all 'terrorism suspects, no matter whose citizenship they hold, can be tried by tribunal' back in congress quickly so they could circumvent a civilian trial with this kid. I admittedly didn't look for any other articles about whether they changed their tune because I thought it was ridiculous, so I totally believe  ZAZ if it was just some old dude(s) running his mouth. I had seen a few comments in another thread a few hours ago, so I just figured they were still trying to get the talks going again out on the Hill.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:47 PM
imageshack.us
 
2013-04-21 09:55:16 PM

rufus-t-firefly: That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.


You clearly don't understand. We're all John Wayne and we're going to get the bad guys. Judge Jury and executioner.
 
2013-04-21 09:55:18 PM

jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".


...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.
 
2013-04-21 09:56:08 PM
American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.
 
2013-04-21 09:57:13 PM

Altair: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

What does state court have to do with this?


There's a good chance he'll be tried in state court for murder...

Seriously, just because they're calling it an act of terrorism doesn't mean it's automatically going to go before a federal court.  They'll give MA the first choice at a trial, just like was done with John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo.
 
2013-04-21 09:57:14 PM

Great Janitor: tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.

Is he in the same hospital where the bombing victims were sent?  If so, I'd imagine that this has been a very awkward weekend.


Considering how many hospitals there are in the area and how many injured were sent to different hospitals I would guess that there are at least a couple at the hospital he was sent to.
 
2013-04-21 09:57:29 PM

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal?


Because Bush Administration precedent.

/it'll be a civvy court, though
 
2013-04-21 09:58:19 PM

AliceBToklasLives: ZeroCorpse: What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

False.

[thefarmclub.net image 236x236]


True
cdn.sheknows.com
 
2013-04-21 09:58:30 PM

saturn badger: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Military or civil? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.


It wasn't  my idea, it was the republicans who were discussing trying to get the Bush-era debates going again so this kid could be moved to a tribunal. I know he doesn't qualify for anything other than State or Federal.
 
2013-04-21 09:58:39 PM
The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.
 
2013-04-21 09:59:39 PM

J Noble Daggett: wademh: Are you feeling any discomfort? Would you like a Tylenol? OK, this is meant to be taken orally but due to your throat injury, we are going to have an orderly insert it like a suppository but all the way up to your stomach. Shaq, are you ready to administer the pain medicine?

[www.sportsauthority.com image 220x220]
while holding a ball


The Uruk-Hai had a basketball team?
 
2013-04-21 10:00:22 PM

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-21 10:01:33 PM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

He'll be tried in a civil court, likely federal for the terrorism related crimes, and/or state for the murder related crimes.

There is literally no way that he'll be tried as an enemy combatant.  If we were in a declared war, with a clear enemy, and he was working as an agent for that enemy to attack us here, he'd be tried in a tribunal, most likely.

As is, he's an American citizen, who committed a very henous act of terrorism/murder.  That's it.


I know what the laws say, and that he only qualifies to be tried in State or Federal courts; guess I should have been more clear in my original question that it was in reference to the republicans who had gone on about trying to find a way to get it moved to a military tribunal.
 
2013-04-21 10:01:40 PM

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


So the big, bad "conservatives" can jerk off to their torture porn.  It makes them feel tough, manly, and not the type to put up with anybody's shiat!!  *SNORT*

Or maybe they just have no faith in that Constitution they're always claiming to care about.
 
2013-04-21 10:02:05 PM
19 is the new 12
 
2013-04-21 10:02:13 PM
One beep for "guilty."  Two beeps for "double guilty."

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-21 10:02:24 PM

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.


Injuring 180+ people is pretty "mass" in my opinion. I guess that's commonplace where you live.
 
2013-04-21 10:02:58 PM

ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


He deserves to be executed, but life w/o parole is more cruel.  So my vote is for that.
 
2013-04-21 10:03:14 PM
See, when they want to keep you alive, they can.  The rest of us get Allstate
 
2013-04-21 10:03:48 PM
I don't get why people think this is going to be anything but a regular fed trial. There is nothing to be gained by anyone to do it in any other setting. Nor do I really see why the trial is a big deal at all other than the final sentencing wherein the people who will be happier if he is dead will argue with the people who will be happier if he is alive (and obviously miserable) over whether or not killing somebody for killing other somebodies is a good idea.

In the end the only true winners will be the media conglomerates who will milk the whole tragedy in the most sordid way imaginable. Im sure the ratings will be fantastic.
 
2013-04-21 10:04:26 PM

Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


FTFY
 
2013-04-21 10:04:31 PM

NewportBarGuy: No, that's a fairy tale.



"A local officer spotted the brothers driving in two cars, a Honda sedan and the stolen Mercedes SUV, said Deveau. The brothers stopped, jumped out and started firing on the officer, while more police rushed to the scene, he said.
"Quickly we had six Watertown police officers and two bad guys in a gunfight," said Deveau. At least 200 shots were fired; maybe as many as 300, he said.
The shots, around 12:50 a.m., woke resident Jennings Aske, at 66 Laurel Ave. When he looked out his window he saw a green Honda Civic sedan stopped in the street, with its lights on and the driver's side windows blown out. A husky man - apparently Tamerlan Tsarnaev -- stood nearby firing a gun.
"I saw him standing there shooting at police," Aske said. "When he fired, there was a little flash of light. I could hear the gun firing. It was terrifying."
A police SUV came down Laurel Street, hearing west toward Dexter Ave., crashing into some trash cans on the sidewalk and into a parked car. Aske said he then saw a black Mercedes SUV drive up, also heading west toward Dexter Avenue. Then he heard two or three loud explosions, one of them large enough to shake the house. In an instant, the street "was crawling with police," he said.
Deveau said the Tsarnaev brothers hurled something at the officers - apparently a pressure cooker bomb -- and there was a tremendous explosion. Police later found the lid to a pressure cooker. "We believe it was an exact duplicate of the Boston Marathon bombs," he said. The suspects also threw five "crude grenades" at officers; three of which exploded, he said.
One of his officers put his cruiser into gear and jumped out of it, letting it roll at the suspects to draw fire, he said. The suspects peppered the car with bullets.
After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel. The officers scattered and the SUV plowed over Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged briefly under the car, he said.
Dzhokar Tsarnaev abandoned the SUV almost immediately on a nearby street and fled on foot, triggering an all-day manhunt."
 
2013-04-21 10:04:34 PM
Oh, good, now we can all focus on their motivations like they matter.

They don't.
 
2013-04-21 10:04:44 PM

BrieBelle00: I know what the laws say, and that he only qualifies to be tried in State or Federal courts; guess I should have been more clear in my original question that it was in reference to the republicans who had gone on about trying to find a way to get it moved to a military tribunal.


So you think they should move this trial to a military tribunal, right?
 
2013-04-21 10:05:00 PM

Great Janitor: If the laws already in place already have rules for what classifies someone as a terrorist, and if he fits those guidelines, then the rules aren't being bent 'cause the guy's evil'.  The guy is being held by the laws of the land.


Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.
 
2013-04-21 10:05:10 PM
I just applied for a mortgage refinance, and the bank crawled up my ass with a microscope. I can't imagine the scrutiny he and his entire family and everyone he and his brother talked to / carpooled with / had classes with / had drinks with / rode the T with / breathed the same air with are going to go through.

I'm going to enjoy it though
 
2013-04-21 10:05:33 PM

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.


A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.
 
2013-04-21 10:06:14 PM

jaytkay: Injuring 180+ people is pretty "mass" in my opinion. I guess that's commonplace where you live.


"Weapons of Mass Destruction" began as a euphemism for NUCLEAR WEAPONS.  They were then broadened to include things like mass chemical weapons (not pepper spray!) and other things that will take out entire cities.  Weapons that even "civilized" armies aren't supposed to use.

So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of  "weapons of mass destruction."

The US invaded Iraq on suspicion of "weapons of mass destruction." None were found.  Meanwhile, tons of IEDs far more lethal than this Boston pressure cooker bomb are all over the place - they are not "weapons of mass destruction."
 
2013-04-21 10:06:30 PM

ZeroCorpse: My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.


You just blew my mind.
 
2013-04-21 10:06:37 PM

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


Or maybe we could, I don't know, put him on trial?
 
2013-04-21 10:06:51 PM

saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY


People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.
 
2013-04-21 10:08:29 PM
l1.yimg.com
 
2013-04-21 10:08:30 PM

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point


Do you really not like hospital pudding? Can I have it?
 
2013-04-21 10:08:46 PM

Mugato: Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.


Laws are an "official definition".  You can only charge someone with a crime that's on the books.
 
2013-04-21 10:09:06 PM

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.
 
2013-04-21 10:09:35 PM
AliceBToklasLives:

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?

The bombs make it federal regardless. They don't need to bend any rules to put this in federal court. As such, he will be subject to the death penalty. I would expect this to play out just like McVeigh's trial and end in a similar fashion.
 
2013-04-21 10:10:12 PM

Weaver95: I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.


Used to be, the highest profile cases were when you made extra damn sure the rules were followed. When did we decide that the best way to "send a message" was to demonstrate willingness to break our own rules? And who, exactly, is supposed to be impressed by that?
 
2013-04-21 10:11:01 PM

Dougie AXP: A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.


Yes. It's a bomb.  It is not, however, a "weapon of mass destruction."

I've never denied it was a bomb. This guy did a mass murder with bombs.  That part is pretty much an airtight case I think, if they've got video, not to mention all the various bits of evidence they've collected at the scene.

Then there's all the killing of a policemen, chucking more bombs out of their car, yeah. Plenty of crimes here. There is no way this guy is ever going free.
 
2013-04-21 10:11:20 PM

jaytkay: Mugato: Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.

Laws are an "official definition".  You can only charge someone with a crime that's on the books.


Blowing people up is a crime that's on the books. The question was whether they are calling it terrorism.
 
2013-04-21 10:11:29 PM

El Supe: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.


You gotta love how some people are like "America is the greatest country in the world!" until it comes to being scared, then they're like "Our laws shouldn't apply when we're afraid!"
 
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