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(USA Today)   Boston Bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is awake and responding to questions via writing   (usatoday.com) divider line 561
    More: Followup, Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, Boston, Michael McCaul, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Massachusetts State Police, Boston Police, law enforcement officials  
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18425 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 9:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-21 08:40:40 PM
Stupid Fartbongo should have just wiped the guy out with a drone.  Now he's gonna write literature and recruit new terrorists and we'll all be farked.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 08:45:10 PM
He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.
 
2013-04-21 08:45:21 PM
I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?
 
2013-04-21 08:46:00 PM
it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.
 
2013-04-21 08:46:32 PM

ambassador_ahab: Stupid Fartbongo should have just wiped the guy out with a drone.  Now he's gonna write literature and recruit new terrorists and we'll all be farked.


Bad news dude.


dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-04-21 08:47:08 PM

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.
 
2013-04-21 08:47:25 PM
Well, isn't that just dandy?
 
2013-04-21 08:47:57 PM
At the very least, it sounds like his self-inflicted wound (along with, I presume, a couple of inflicted ones here or there) will be nagging, painful injuries for years to come.  Just like the people who he hurt.  It's not perfect, but it's a start.
 
2013-04-21 08:48:32 PM
He just drew a picture of Kevin Spacey.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 08:49:56 PM
BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).
 
2013-04-21 08:51:36 PM

calbert: it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.


The victims of the bombing did. Everyone gets life saving help from the hospital! It's against the law not to!

All you have to do is get though the door and they have to do everything they can to save you.
 
2013-04-21 08:51:43 PM
I don't think Hallmark even makes a card for this occasion.

Get Well Soon ...so we can try you in a court of law and send your blood thirsty little punkass to PMITA prison for the rest of your miserable farked up life!
 
2013-04-21 08:51:49 PM
i140.photobucket.com

/*ding, ding*
 
2013-04-21 08:52:42 PM
He's a a stress free kind of guy
 
2013-04-21 08:55:18 PM

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


It doesn't say whether or not he's being interrogated.  It does say he's "not in any condition to be interrogated."  They might just be asking things like "Do you need any pillows" or whatever.

Then again, they might not be.
 
2013-04-21 08:56:39 PM
Dear Darla,

I hate your stinking guts. You're the scum between my toes.

Love, Alfalfa.
 
2013-04-21 08:56:59 PM

ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.
 
2013-04-21 08:58:17 PM

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.
 
2013-04-21 09:00:33 PM

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.
 
2013-04-21 09:00:58 PM

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


It doesn't matter if he confesses.  Or says of does anything for that matter.  He's obviously guilty.  They could convict him if he were in a coma.

His only hope to live (if he wants to) is full cooperation in exchange for life.
 
2013-04-21 09:00:59 PM
they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.
 
2013-04-21 09:03:33 PM

Weaver95: we're just gonna strip him of his rights


Maybe.

Weaver95: torture the f*ck outta him


Doubt it, in this particular case.

Weaver95: and then kill him


Maybe.
 
2013-04-21 09:03:41 PM

Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.


I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.
 
2013-04-21 09:05:31 PM
smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net
 
2013-04-21 09:06:28 PM

SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.


this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 09:07:09 PM
I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

A politician was blowing his mouth off. They do that sometimes. A military trial would have to be based on the global war on terror and the 2001 authorization for use of military force against terrorists. At this point there isn't any evidence of international terrorism or even domestic terrorism. Terrorism is not the same as killing a lot of people.

I heard an interview with Alan Dershowitz. He said he would flunk anybody in his class who suggested a military tribunal under the circumstances.
 
2013-04-21 09:07:30 PM

SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.


probably.  not that they aren't already tearing his life apart down to the sub-atomic level and seeing where he went off the rails into loonie toons land...but a nice discussion about motive and how/where he learned all his bomber tricks would help speed things up quite a bit.

if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.  they know Tsarnaev will crack sooner or later and once he does, the Fed will come down on 'em all like a ton of bricks.
 
2013-04-21 09:13:50 PM

ZAZ: The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


They used a bomb.  That makes it federal.  I suppose they could charge him in both jurisdictions, but I think the feds would take the lead.
 
2013-04-21 09:14:21 PM

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.


I agree about the rights, but military tribunal...

Do millitary tribunals have to recognize your alleged rank? I could park my car in the highway U-turn lane, wait for a statie to come issue the ticket, declare it a military action and get recognized at the tribunal as Captain Doglover, and viola (or contrabass)! I'm a CO for $300 plus a few points on the license.
 
2013-04-21 09:15:06 PM

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


What does state court have to do with this?
 
2013-04-21 09:15:15 PM
FTFA: "He's [just] a 19-year-old boy."

<chapelle>
    How old is 15, anyway??
</chapelle>
 
2013-04-21 09:15:15 PM
Perhaps they could import that Chinese nut-crusher lady for a couple of weeks.   An eye for an eye, a nut job for a nut job.
 
2013-04-21 09:16:23 PM
Responding to question, Columbia is interviewing him already?
 
2013-04-21 09:16:46 PM

namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA


He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.
 
2013-04-21 09:18:12 PM
Make sure he doesn't use the pen to stab himself to death.
 
2013-04-21 09:18:28 PM

SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.


Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.
 
2013-04-21 09:19:16 PM
can you really stop someone from killing themselves (without tortuous methods like 24x7 strap down)? Cant you just punch yourself in the throat, or something?

/macabe.. but i thought i'd ask.
 
2013-04-21 09:19:19 PM
Do you wish you'd just stuck to smoking weed and playing soldier on Xbox? (Check one)

[ ] Yes
[ ] No
 
2013-04-21 09:19:26 PM
Shouldn't he be using Twitter or something?
 
2013-04-21 09:19:47 PM

Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.


I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.
 
2013-04-21 09:20:33 PM

LookForTheArrow: can you really stop someone from killing themselves (without tortuous methods like 24x7 strap down)? Cant you just punch yourself in the throat, or something?

/macabe.. but i thought i'd ask.


Bite the tongue.
 
2013-04-21 09:20:58 PM

Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.



Sadly, I think you're right but until it's declared to fall under the NDAA, they have to treat it like any other criminal felony case.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:12 PM

Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.


True or false, thinking like that scare me. Sure it makes sense in peace time, but when there is REAL confusion about who did what, what sort of prececdent does it establish?

Do it right, that's the american way.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:14 PM
When I think of brothers indoctrinated to an extremist cause...

sa11bgoesblogging.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-21 09:21:17 PM
didn't they find more bombs at his apartment?  and don't they have video of him making the drop?
 
2013-04-21 09:21:29 PM

Altair: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

What does state court have to do with this?


The MIT cop who was killed as well as other charges in the gun battle.  Those are state charges.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:36 PM

Lindsay Graham: keep him as enemy combatant to interrogate for intelligence purposes; try him in civilian court, can't use info from initial interrogation(s) for civil prosecution

(CNN) Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the suspect in federal custody for the Boston Marathon bombing, should be considered an enemy combatant only for interrogation purposes, not so he can be tried in a military tribunal, Sen. Lindsey Graham said Sunday. "He is not eligible for military commission trial," the Republican senator from South Carolina said on CNN's "State of the Union." Graham argued Tsarnaev should be tried in a civilian trial in federal courts.
Graham was among Republicans Saturday who called for the U.S. government to label Tsarnaev as an enemy combat so authorities could waive his legal rights while they question him for intelligence purposes.
"Most Americans want to find out what he knew, who he associated with, does he know about terrorist organizations within or without the country that are trying to hurt us? Does he know about a future attack?" Graham said on Sunday.
Graham said none of that information could be used against him in civilian court. Anytime Tsarnaev is questioned "about his guilt or innocence," then "he's entitled to his Miranda Rights and a lawyer."

link

Carl Levin: He's not an enemy combatant, don't hold him as one
The Obama administration has said it thinks terrorism suspects arrested inside the United States should be handled exclusively in the criminal justice system. It has indicated no intention to do otherwise in Mr. Tsarnaev's case, but the issue is taking on political currency, underscoring a major divide on national security legal policy.
Senator Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat who is the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a statement that the laws of war did not apply to Mr. Tsarnaev and that there was so far no evidence that he was "part of any organized group, let alone Al Qaeda, the Taliban or one of their affiliates - the only organizations whose members are subject" to detention as a part of war.
"In the absence of such evidence, I know of no legal basis for his detention as an enemy combatant," Mr. Levin said. "To hold the suspect as an enemy combatant under these circumstances would be contrary to our laws and may even jeopardize our efforts to prosecute him for his crimes."

link

 
2013-04-21 09:21:47 PM

foo monkey: namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA

He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.


And I'll be completely fine by that, as long as the punishment is carried out with the full consent of a jury in an open trial.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:47 PM
Ask him how he would like to die.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:58 PM
It was Claus Von Bulow with a vial of insulin.
 
2013-04-21 09:22:21 PM

namatad: this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...


.What? Do you think he's going to thumb his nose at everyone while tiptoeing through the tulips? He will never have his freedom again even if he does go free. He will be in the crosshairs of every vigilante with a weapon sharper than a butter knife. (And this is Boston where everyone is a vigilante after a few beers.) The kid will never be able to sleep with both eyes closed again. His best bet is to behind the protection of the cops and courts. Outside of jail is a guaranteed death sentence for him.
 
2013-04-21 09:22:24 PM

FriarReb98: At the very least, it sounds like his self-inflicted wound (along with, I presume, a couple of inflicted ones here or there) will be nagging, painful injuries for years to come.  Just like the people who he hurt.  It's not perfect, but it's a start.


A lot of people have suffered, radicalization is largely made possible by heavy handed international policy and he's basically a child but no, keep advocating for revenge instead of justice. I'm sure that will help.
 
2013-04-21 09:22:38 PM
If there's any ties to foreign terrorists that info probably died with the older bro.
 
2013-04-21 09:22:41 PM
s3-ec.buzzfed.com
 
2013-04-21 09:23:07 PM

foo monkey: namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA

He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.


Thats for sure...I wonder if he will be the youngest to go to Supermax?
 
2013-04-21 09:24:06 PM

foo monkey: He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.


A) We have enough scum in Colorado.  Plus all those asshole in the Supermax
B) He is sane and an adult (a real, not a made-up, 'adult') - he will get the needle - I'm sure the English already have really good odds on that one
C) He better hope the feds don't get all pissy and let the fine folks from Oklahoma have the honors
 
2013-04-21 09:25:03 PM

ZAZ: BrieBelle00
The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


www.radford.edu

First one, then the other.
 
2013-04-21 09:25:11 PM
I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.
 
2013-04-21 09:25:15 PM
So, he could kill all those others with guns and bombs, but the one person he could not kill was himself.
 
2013-04-21 09:25:35 PM

JerseyTim: He just drew a picture of Kevin Spacey.


i132.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-21 09:26:03 PM

Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended twisted into whatever shape the gubmint wants on this one.

 
2013-04-21 09:27:47 PM

lordjupiter: Do you wish you'd just stuck to smoking weed and playing soldier on Xbox know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels? (Check one)

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

 
2013-04-21 09:28:56 PM

namatad: but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...


Okay, that's just not how that works at all.

Miranda is PURELY about what is admissible at trial, and given that his guilt can be established trivially without any confession (if just for the murder of that cop during his escape if not the bombings) there's no question of him conceivably going free.
 
2013-04-21 09:29:14 PM
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-04-21 09:29:38 PM
FTFA: "Meanwhile at the Watertown Police Station, neighbor Gale Boyd brought homemade brownies and Lindor truffles Sunday afternoon and shook the hand of the first police officer she saw."

What the fark, is this a news site or a church newsletter?
 
2013-04-21 09:29:42 PM

djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?


From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.
 
2013-04-21 09:29:44 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.


That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.
 
2013-04-21 09:30:40 PM

ZAZ: A politician was blowing his mouth off. They do that sometimes. A military trial would have to be based on the global war on terror and the 2001 authorization for use of military force against terrorists. At this point there isn't any evidence of international terrorism or even domestic terrorism. Terrorism is not the same as killing a lot of people.


This.  Right now, it's a mass murder incident.
 
2013-04-21 09:30:42 PM

MisterTweak: Texas Gabe: Is there a CIA guy jamming his finger in the neck hole between every question?

I think probably just tugs on his catheter every time he wants to ask a question.


 or waving an oxy in his face...
 
2013-04-21 09:31:50 PM

tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.


Is he in the same hospital where the bombing victims were sent?  If so, I'd imagine that this has been a very awkward weekend.
 
2013-04-21 09:33:42 PM

NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.


bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
*breathes*
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
 
2013-04-21 09:33:52 PM
At this point, they will have to focus their questioning about public safety, as in "are there more bombs", "where are additional bombs", "are there other who were helping you who might be ready to hurt people"???


This is permitted under the ruling about public safety.

They do not need to, nor should they, ask him questions related to intended prosecution. For that, they will have evidence taken from the chase, the capture, his apartments, eye witnesses and video. There is no reason to compromise any of that.
 
2013-04-21 09:33:58 PM
D-R-I-N-K Y-O-U-R O-V-A-L-T-I-N-E

Wtf?
 
2013-04-21 09:34:07 PM

AcesFull: MisterTweak: Texas Gabe: Is there a CIA guy jamming his finger in the neck hole between every question?

I think probably just tugs on his catheter every time he wants to ask a question.

 or waving an oxy in his face...


yeah, i imagined the nurse with the pain killers swappin' it for naloxone by accident but i kinda hope our system is better than that. If there is ANYTHING we've learned from Stargate, it's be nice, cause you never know who the aliens will interview to decide if you're worth keeping around.

/wonder what they'll put in his veins when it's time to talk
 
2013-04-21 09:34:10 PM

BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.


Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.
 
2013-04-21 09:35:25 PM

Weaver95: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

probably.  not that they aren't already tearing his life apart down to the sub-atomic level and seeing where he went off the rails into loonie toons land...but a nice discussion about motive and how/where he learned all his bomber tricks would help speed things up quite a bit.

if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.  they know Tsarnaev will crack sooner or later and once he does, the Fed will come down on 'em all like a ton of bricks drone strike.

 
2013-04-21 09:38:09 PM
He is playing Sudoku.
 
2013-04-21 09:38:56 PM
Again, he is terrible at his job...
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-21 09:39:52 PM
The federal prosecutor is going to do this one by the numbers. There is a microscope focused on this case  and if it gets screwed up because someone didn't do everything by the book then every senator and congress critter will be screaming for the next 2 years on cable news. No one wants more of that.
 
2013-04-21 09:39:56 PM
Are you feeling any discomfort? Would you like a Tylenol? OK, this is meant to be taken orally but due to your throat injury, we are going to have an orderly insert it like a suppository but all the way up to your stomach. Shaq, are you ready to administer the pain medicine?
 
2013-04-21 09:39:59 PM

Mog32Kupo: Again, he is terrible at his job...
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 256x197]


Is that Emilio Estevez?
 
2013-04-21 09:40:06 PM
Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

Find out who radicalized him, and send him a Hellfire.

"cleric", my ass.
 
2013-04-21 09:40:45 PM

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


Actually, it's a criminal matter, not civil.

As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.
 
2013-04-21 09:41:33 PM

NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.


You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.
 
2013-04-21 09:43:27 PM

ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

Find out who radicalized him, and send him a Hellfire.

"cleric", my ass.


There's evil clerics. Do you even D&D?
 
2013-04-21 09:43:30 PM

Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.


damn... thats hardkore
 
2013-04-21 09:43:45 PM
"Lol my brother is cooked"
 
2013-04-21 09:43:53 PM

wademh: Are you feeling any discomfort? Would you like a Tylenol? OK, this is meant to be taken orally but due to your throat injury, we are going to have an orderly insert it like a suppository but all the way up to your stomach. Shaq, are you ready to administer the pain medicine?


www.sportsauthority.com
while holding a ball
 
2013-04-21 09:43:55 PM

calbert: it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.


Just like everyone who gets into the hospital, he'll be billed for the health care. Stamping license plates only pays so much, however. It's not "free," although he'll never be able to afford the bill.
 
2013-04-21 09:44:12 PM

Gyrfalcon: Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".
 
2013-04-21 09:45:24 PM
He hasn't been read his rights!  This is 0bummer's America!  He's going to have us all under marshal law!  Illegal home searches!
 
2013-04-21 09:46:12 PM

Sid_6.7: [i140.photobucket.com image 590x375]

/*ding, ding*


"Dea ain't a word, Tsarnaev! Quit talking nonsense!"
 
2013-04-21 09:46:15 PM
Send the kid to Pyongyang. Tell him that we will reduce his charges to murder 1 and he will live out his life in a federal prison.. but only if he manages to nuke Fat Kim and most (if not all) of the DPRK's government officials in Pyongyang. Kill two birds with one stone.
 
2013-04-21 09:46:19 PM
I would imagine they would like to know if there are any more bombs out there, if they had help or assistance, that kind of thing. And he should get a fair trial, by a jury of his peers, followed by a first-rate execution. If I'm not mistaken, isn't killing a police officer in the commission of a crime a federal offense? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one.
 
2013-04-21 09:46:33 PM

thisiszombocom: Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.

damn... thats hardkore


No, that's a fairy tale.
 
2013-04-21 09:47:21 PM

ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.


I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?
 
2013-04-21 09:47:26 PM
From an article about this douchebag: "The friends also repeatedly said that Dzohkar Tsarnaev is a notoriously bad driver."

And according to the Boston police chief, this guy ran over his own brother while escaping and "dragged his sibling's body a short distance down the street and drove off."

DOH!
 
2013-04-21 09:48:12 PM

NewportBarGuy: Mog32Kupo: Again, he is terrible at his job...
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 256x197]

Is that Emilio Estevez?


Talentless brother Joe, from the lemon Soultaker.  But one of the best MST3k
http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/Soultaker
 
2013-04-21 09:48:45 PM
My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.
 
2013-04-21 09:49:57 PM

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


I suspect that, at the moment, they're less focused on a confession than wanting to know if there are more people involved (and therefore whether more attacks are possible).
 
2013-04-21 09:51:04 PM

AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?


If the laws already in place already have rules for what classifies someone as a terrorist, and if he fits those guidelines, then the rules aren't being bent 'cause the guy's evil'.  The guy is being held by the laws of the land.
 
2013-04-21 09:51:15 PM

ZeroCorpse: What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?


False.

thefarmclub.net
 
2013-04-21 09:51:30 PM

ambassador_ahab: Stupid Fartbongo should have just wiped the guy out with a drone.  Now he's gonna write literature and recruit new terrorists and we'll all be farked.


Haha yeah no his life as he knows it is over.

/I see your "Fartbongo." I see what you did there.
 
2013-04-21 09:51:32 PM

Mog32Kupo: Joe


"G'bye, Joe!"

/also in the episode covering Werewolf
//"That was absolutely fascinating."
 
2013-04-21 09:52:10 PM

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


Military or civil? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.
 
2013-04-21 09:52:10 PM

Weaver95: if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.  they know Tsarnaev will crack sooner or later and once he does, the Fed will come down on 'em all like a ton of bricks.


If there are other bombers/accomplices out there, I kinda expect they wouldn't let the younger brother know too much about who/where they are...
 
2013-04-21 09:53:39 PM
I thought Drew had a rule that we weren't to use these guy's real names and had to instead refer to them as some character from The Simpsons.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:24 PM

Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.


Trying to follow your logic.  It then follows that the younger brother should've committed suicide, as he had many chances including popping out of the boat like Rambo.  Or shooting his own brains out.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:31 PM

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


He'll be tried in a civil court, likely federal for the terrorism related crimes, and/or state for the murder related crimes.

There is literally no way that he'll be tried as an enemy combatant.  If we were in a declared war, with a clear enemy, and he was working as an agent for that enemy to attack us here, he'd be tried in a tribunal, most likely.

As is, he's an American citizen, who committed a very henous act of terrorism/murder.  That's it.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:33 PM

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


I think the meaning of what I initially wrote was misunderstood... I'm not arguing that it  should be moved to military court, or that it legally can be - one of the fun parts of being in the military is they make you learn a whole bunch o' the military's rules, so I know he does not qualify to be tried in a military tribunal. The last article I read about "who gets to try him" was early Saturday morning, and it sounded like more than a couple repubs wanted to get the Bush-era debates about all 'terrorism suspects, no matter whose citizenship they hold, can be tried by tribunal' back in congress quickly so they could circumvent a civilian trial with this kid. I admittedly didn't look for any other articles about whether they changed their tune because I thought it was ridiculous, so I totally believe  ZAZ if it was just some old dude(s) running his mouth. I had seen a few comments in another thread a few hours ago, so I just figured they were still trying to get the talks going again out on the Hill.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:47 PM
imageshack.us
 
2013-04-21 09:55:16 PM

rufus-t-firefly: That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.


You clearly don't understand. We're all John Wayne and we're going to get the bad guys. Judge Jury and executioner.
 
2013-04-21 09:55:18 PM

jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".


...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.
 
2013-04-21 09:56:08 PM
American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.
 
2013-04-21 09:57:13 PM

Altair: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

What does state court have to do with this?


There's a good chance he'll be tried in state court for murder...

Seriously, just because they're calling it an act of terrorism doesn't mean it's automatically going to go before a federal court.  They'll give MA the first choice at a trial, just like was done with John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo.
 
2013-04-21 09:57:14 PM

Great Janitor: tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.

Is he in the same hospital where the bombing victims were sent?  If so, I'd imagine that this has been a very awkward weekend.


Considering how many hospitals there are in the area and how many injured were sent to different hospitals I would guess that there are at least a couple at the hospital he was sent to.
 
2013-04-21 09:57:29 PM

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal?


Because Bush Administration precedent.

/it'll be a civvy court, though
 
2013-04-21 09:58:19 PM

AliceBToklasLives: ZeroCorpse: What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

False.

[thefarmclub.net image 236x236]


True
cdn.sheknows.com
 
2013-04-21 09:58:30 PM

saturn badger: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Military or civil? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.


It wasn't  my idea, it was the republicans who were discussing trying to get the Bush-era debates going again so this kid could be moved to a tribunal. I know he doesn't qualify for anything other than State or Federal.
 
2013-04-21 09:58:39 PM
The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.
 
2013-04-21 09:59:39 PM

J Noble Daggett: wademh: Are you feeling any discomfort? Would you like a Tylenol? OK, this is meant to be taken orally but due to your throat injury, we are going to have an orderly insert it like a suppository but all the way up to your stomach. Shaq, are you ready to administer the pain medicine?

[www.sportsauthority.com image 220x220]
while holding a ball


The Uruk-Hai had a basketball team?
 
2013-04-21 10:00:22 PM

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-21 10:01:33 PM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

He'll be tried in a civil court, likely federal for the terrorism related crimes, and/or state for the murder related crimes.

There is literally no way that he'll be tried as an enemy combatant.  If we were in a declared war, with a clear enemy, and he was working as an agent for that enemy to attack us here, he'd be tried in a tribunal, most likely.

As is, he's an American citizen, who committed a very henous act of terrorism/murder.  That's it.


I know what the laws say, and that he only qualifies to be tried in State or Federal courts; guess I should have been more clear in my original question that it was in reference to the republicans who had gone on about trying to find a way to get it moved to a military tribunal.
 
2013-04-21 10:01:40 PM

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


So the big, bad "conservatives" can jerk off to their torture porn.  It makes them feel tough, manly, and not the type to put up with anybody's shiat!!  *SNORT*

Or maybe they just have no faith in that Constitution they're always claiming to care about.
 
2013-04-21 10:02:05 PM
19 is the new 12
 
2013-04-21 10:02:13 PM
One beep for "guilty."  Two beeps for "double guilty."

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-21 10:02:24 PM

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.


Injuring 180+ people is pretty "mass" in my opinion. I guess that's commonplace where you live.
 
2013-04-21 10:02:58 PM

ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


He deserves to be executed, but life w/o parole is more cruel.  So my vote is for that.
 
2013-04-21 10:03:14 PM
See, when they want to keep you alive, they can.  The rest of us get Allstate
 
2013-04-21 10:03:48 PM
I don't get why people think this is going to be anything but a regular fed trial. There is nothing to be gained by anyone to do it in any other setting. Nor do I really see why the trial is a big deal at all other than the final sentencing wherein the people who will be happier if he is dead will argue with the people who will be happier if he is alive (and obviously miserable) over whether or not killing somebody for killing other somebodies is a good idea.

In the end the only true winners will be the media conglomerates who will milk the whole tragedy in the most sordid way imaginable. Im sure the ratings will be fantastic.
 
2013-04-21 10:04:26 PM

Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


FTFY
 
2013-04-21 10:04:31 PM

NewportBarGuy: No, that's a fairy tale.



"A local officer spotted the brothers driving in two cars, a Honda sedan and the stolen Mercedes SUV, said Deveau. The brothers stopped, jumped out and started firing on the officer, while more police rushed to the scene, he said.
"Quickly we had six Watertown police officers and two bad guys in a gunfight," said Deveau. At least 200 shots were fired; maybe as many as 300, he said.
The shots, around 12:50 a.m., woke resident Jennings Aske, at 66 Laurel Ave. When he looked out his window he saw a green Honda Civic sedan stopped in the street, with its lights on and the driver's side windows blown out. A husky man - apparently Tamerlan Tsarnaev -- stood nearby firing a gun.
"I saw him standing there shooting at police," Aske said. "When he fired, there was a little flash of light. I could hear the gun firing. It was terrifying."
A police SUV came down Laurel Street, hearing west toward Dexter Ave., crashing into some trash cans on the sidewalk and into a parked car. Aske said he then saw a black Mercedes SUV drive up, also heading west toward Dexter Avenue. Then he heard two or three loud explosions, one of them large enough to shake the house. In an instant, the street "was crawling with police," he said.
Deveau said the Tsarnaev brothers hurled something at the officers - apparently a pressure cooker bomb -- and there was a tremendous explosion. Police later found the lid to a pressure cooker. "We believe it was an exact duplicate of the Boston Marathon bombs," he said. The suspects also threw five "crude grenades" at officers; three of which exploded, he said.
One of his officers put his cruiser into gear and jumped out of it, letting it roll at the suspects to draw fire, he said. The suspects peppered the car with bullets.
After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel. The officers scattered and the SUV plowed over Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged briefly under the car, he said.
Dzhokar Tsarnaev abandoned the SUV almost immediately on a nearby street and fled on foot, triggering an all-day manhunt."
 
2013-04-21 10:04:34 PM
Oh, good, now we can all focus on their motivations like they matter.

They don't.
 
2013-04-21 10:04:44 PM

BrieBelle00: I know what the laws say, and that he only qualifies to be tried in State or Federal courts; guess I should have been more clear in my original question that it was in reference to the republicans who had gone on about trying to find a way to get it moved to a military tribunal.


So you think they should move this trial to a military tribunal, right?
 
2013-04-21 10:05:00 PM

Great Janitor: If the laws already in place already have rules for what classifies someone as a terrorist, and if he fits those guidelines, then the rules aren't being bent 'cause the guy's evil'.  The guy is being held by the laws of the land.


Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.
 
2013-04-21 10:05:10 PM
I just applied for a mortgage refinance, and the bank crawled up my ass with a microscope. I can't imagine the scrutiny he and his entire family and everyone he and his brother talked to / carpooled with / had classes with / had drinks with / rode the T with / breathed the same air with are going to go through.

I'm going to enjoy it though
 
2013-04-21 10:05:33 PM

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.


A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.
 
2013-04-21 10:06:14 PM

jaytkay: Injuring 180+ people is pretty "mass" in my opinion. I guess that's commonplace where you live.


"Weapons of Mass Destruction" began as a euphemism for NUCLEAR WEAPONS.  They were then broadened to include things like mass chemical weapons (not pepper spray!) and other things that will take out entire cities.  Weapons that even "civilized" armies aren't supposed to use.

So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of  "weapons of mass destruction."

The US invaded Iraq on suspicion of "weapons of mass destruction." None were found.  Meanwhile, tons of IEDs far more lethal than this Boston pressure cooker bomb are all over the place - they are not "weapons of mass destruction."
 
2013-04-21 10:06:30 PM

ZeroCorpse: My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.


You just blew my mind.
 
2013-04-21 10:06:37 PM

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


Or maybe we could, I don't know, put him on trial?
 
2013-04-21 10:06:51 PM

saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY


People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.
 
2013-04-21 10:08:29 PM
l1.yimg.com
 
2013-04-21 10:08:30 PM

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point


Do you really not like hospital pudding? Can I have it?
 
2013-04-21 10:08:46 PM

Mugato: Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.


Laws are an "official definition".  You can only charge someone with a crime that's on the books.
 
2013-04-21 10:09:06 PM

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.
 
2013-04-21 10:09:35 PM
AliceBToklasLives:

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?

The bombs make it federal regardless. They don't need to bend any rules to put this in federal court. As such, he will be subject to the death penalty. I would expect this to play out just like McVeigh's trial and end in a similar fashion.
 
2013-04-21 10:10:12 PM

Weaver95: I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.


Used to be, the highest profile cases were when you made extra damn sure the rules were followed. When did we decide that the best way to "send a message" was to demonstrate willingness to break our own rules? And who, exactly, is supposed to be impressed by that?
 
2013-04-21 10:11:01 PM

Dougie AXP: A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.


Yes. It's a bomb.  It is not, however, a "weapon of mass destruction."

I've never denied it was a bomb. This guy did a mass murder with bombs.  That part is pretty much an airtight case I think, if they've got video, not to mention all the various bits of evidence they've collected at the scene.

Then there's all the killing of a policemen, chucking more bombs out of their car, yeah. Plenty of crimes here. There is no way this guy is ever going free.
 
2013-04-21 10:11:20 PM

jaytkay: Mugato: Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.

Laws are an "official definition".  You can only charge someone with a crime that's on the books.


Blowing people up is a crime that's on the books. The question was whether they are calling it terrorism.
 
2013-04-21 10:11:29 PM

El Supe: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.


You gotta love how some people are like "America is the greatest country in the world!" until it comes to being scared, then they're like "Our laws shouldn't apply when we're afraid!"
 
2013-04-21 10:11:33 PM
If I were a federal investigator, I'd get an agent fluent in Russian to pose as a doctor. When alone in the room, he'd pretend to sympathize with the kid. Maybe even pretend to be an undercover Chechen agent working on springing him out. 19 year olds are stupid, expecially when traumatized and drugged. Get him to say things he won't say to guys with badges.

It's possible I've seen too much Mission: Impossible.
 
2013-04-21 10:11:41 PM
The only question they should ask him is "when we stick ya in the electric chair, ya want original or extra crispy?"
 
2013-04-21 10:11:44 PM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

He'll be tried in a civilcriminal court, likely federal for the terrorism related crimes, and/or state for the murder related crimes.

There is literally no way that he'll be tried as an enemy combatant.  If we were in a declared war, with a clear enemy, and he was working as an agent for that enemy to attack us here, he'd be tried in a tribunal, most likely.

As is, he's an American citizen, who committed a very henous act of terrorism/murder.  That's it.


He is not being sued.
 
2013-04-21 10:12:00 PM
The brothers' uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, told the Associated Press that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was "used" by his older brother to carry out the bombing. "He's not been understanding anything," Tsarni said. "He's a 19-year-old boy."

/Ya, i'm not buying that shiat dude. I can understand your family's pain at being relations to terrorists, but he's 19, MORE than old enough to know that planting bombs and blowing up innocent men, women, and children is wrong. Esp since he's been in country this long. I don't doubt that his brother was a major teacher of hate and intolerance, but he had his own mind, and unless you can prove he's a sociopath, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and its consequences.
 
2013-04-21 10:12:27 PM

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

....



Your GED in law has been recalled.  A weapon of mass destruction under federal law is

18 USC § 2332a - Use of weapons of mass destruction
(2)the term "weapon of mass destruction" means-
(A) any destructive device as defined in section 921


18 USC § 921 - Definitions
(4)The term "destructive device" means-
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas-(i) bomb,(ii) grenade,(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,(v) mine, or(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;
 
2013-04-21 10:13:02 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-21 10:13:10 PM

saturn badger: He is not being sued.


...yet. :)
 
2013-04-21 10:13:24 PM

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


I believe the US Attorney in Boston is Carmen Ortiz, most recently in the news for the prosecution of Aaron Swartz.
 
2013-04-21 10:13:50 PM

itazurakko: jaytkay: Injuring 180+ people is pretty "mass" in my opinion. I guess that's commonplace where you live.

"Weapons of Mass Destruction" began as a euphemism for NUCLEAR WEAPONS.  They were then broadened to include things like mass chemical weapons (not pepper spray!) and other things that will take out entire cities.  Weapons that even "civilized" armies aren't supposed to use.

So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of  "weapons of mass destruction."

The US invaded Iraq on suspicion of "weapons of mass destruction." None were found.  Meanwhile, tons of IEDs far more lethal than this Boston pressure cooker bomb are all over the place - they are not "weapons of mass destruction."


Whatever. There's a Federal law he can be charged with.

Look it up if you want to know how weapon of mass destruction is defined. See if it meets with your approval.

I'm sure Federal prosecutors will be anxiously awaiting your OK before they proceed.
 
2013-04-21 10:13:56 PM

Samwise Gamgee: If I were a federal investigator, I'd get an agent fluent in Russian to pose as a doctor. When alone in the room, he'd pretend to sympathize with the kid. Maybe even pretend to be an undercover Chechen agent working on springing him out. 19 year olds are stupid, expecially when traumatized and drugged. Get him to say things he won't say to guys with badges.

It's possible I've seen too much Mission: Impossible.


I think that happened in Rainbow 6.
 
2013-04-21 10:14:02 PM

Alonjar: After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel. The officers scattered and the SUV plowed over Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged briefly under the car, he said.


You're reading that as he intentionally killed his brother. I'm reading it as he killed his brother trying to get away.

Neither of us will know until more information comes out. The only thing I was asserting is that he has to live with the fact that he killed his brother. Maybe that's why he tried to kill himself. It's all supposition.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 10:15:15 PM
So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.
 
2013-04-21 10:16:20 PM

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


Ted Kaczynski, by himself, killed just as many people as this guy did with bombs and he's alive in prison. There's no reason to kill Tsarnaev now and keeping him alive might help us better understand bombers in the future.
 
2013-04-21 10:16:22 PM
D-R-I-N-K M-O-R-E O-V-A-L-T-I-N-E
 
2013-04-21 10:16:34 PM

sdd2000: 18 USC § 921 - Definitions
(4)The term "destructive device" means-
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas-(i) bomb,(ii) grenade,(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,(v) mine, or(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;


Well, it started with a properly different meaning. If it's been watered down to this, I still think it's ridiculous.  It was originally about "non-conventional weapons."
 
2013-04-21 10:16:58 PM

Great Janitor: As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts. If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.


Were any of the 180 or so injured military or federal employees? That's probably the angle they'll use.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they check every piece of equipment they used. If they went to New Hampshire to buy the backpack and save the sales tax, they'll make it a federal crime that crossed state lines.
 
2013-04-21 10:17:22 PM

BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Military or civil? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.

It wasn't  my idea, it was the republicans who were discussing trying to get the Bush-era debates going again so this kid could be moved to a tribunal. I know he doesn't qualify for anything other than State or Federal.


I didn't get that from your comment and have been tuned out of the news the last few days. Been out chillin' and partying. Sometimes that is a better place to be.
 
2013-04-21 10:17:37 PM

Mugato: jaytkay: Mugato: Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.

Laws are an "official definition".  You can only charge someone with a crime that's on the books.

Blowing people up is a crime that's on the books. The question was whether they are calling it terrorism.


Remote bombs used to kill and maim people while they were watching a race, sending the message that you are not safe, that we can kill you in this city, that's terrorism.
 
2013-04-21 10:17:42 PM

El Supe: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.


And the purpose of all that would be.....?
 
2013-04-21 10:17:54 PM
 
2013-04-21 10:17:59 PM

jaytkay: I'm sure Federal prosecutors will be anxiously awaiting your OK before they proceed.


Oh, I very much doubt that. Doesn't mean people can't criticize the mad rush to call everything under the sun "terrorism" now.
 
2013-04-21 10:18:10 PM
The brothers' uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, told the Associated Press that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was "used" by his older brother to carry out the bombing. "He's not been understanding anything," Tsarni said. "He's a 19-year-old boy."

I knew this pathetic defense was going to rear its head. He lost any chance at that when he decided to fire an automatic weapon at police officers attempting to apprehend him. Death penalty. I don't give a shiat if he's 19. Death penalty.
 
2013-04-21 10:18:11 PM

NewportBarGuy: Alonjar: After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel. The officers scattered and the SUV plowed over Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged briefly under the car, he said.

You're reading that as he intentionally killed his brother. I'm reading it as he killed his brother trying to get away.

Neither of us will know until more information comes out. The only thing I was asserting is that he has to live with the fact that he killed his brother. Maybe that's why he tried to kill himself. It's all supposition.


Maybe he was master and his brother was blaster.

#2 was #1 and planned the whole thing and took advantage of his older brothers budding religious radicalism, he ran over his brother to keep him from talking.
 
2013-04-21 10:18:33 PM

ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.


Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!
 
2013-04-21 10:18:55 PM

ManateeGag: He hasn't been read his rights!  This is 0bummer's America!  He's going to have us all under marshal law!  Illegal home searches!


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-04-21 10:19:01 PM

tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.


His doctors are actually Israeli. So lulz.
 
2013-04-21 10:19:03 PM

Nem Wan: Weaver95: I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.

Used to be, the highest profile cases were when you made extra damn sure the rules were followed. When did we decide that the best way to "send a message" was to demonstrate willingness to break our own rules? And who, exactly, is supposed to be impressed by that?


Usually, people too stupid and/or ignorant to understand the historical relevance of the rules, and the importance of holding them sacred so that they don't eventually degrade into tyranny against the populous.  I sure as hell expect the government to prosecute this guy effectively without their incompetence resulting in the rules having to be bent, or allowing the casus belli de jour to determine our legal standards.

 I forget, is this one of those situations where we let the law be "modified" because we trust the government, or because we're worried about them?  I just want to know what argument is going to be used in the next gun thread.
 
2013-04-21 10:19:06 PM
I hope it's pork chop day at the hospital.
 
2013-04-21 10:19:20 PM
Will Sgt Fury interrogate him?
 
2013-04-21 10:19:52 PM

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


Why? So we can deport them? I'm not sure why that would help. Maybe you can explain it.
 
2013-04-21 10:21:21 PM

ManateeGag: He hasn't been read his rights!  This is 0bummer's America!  He's going to have us all under marshal law!  Illegal home searches!


Well at least I see you're hooked on phonics.
 
2013-04-21 10:21:35 PM

awalkingecho: tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.

His doctors are actually Israeli. So lulz.


Citation on the Israeli doctors in case anyone wants it
 
2013-04-21 10:21:46 PM
A lot better way for communicating with others than using bombs.   He should have just started out writing and skipped all the violence.
 
2013-04-21 10:21:53 PM

IntertubeUser: Fark you, Scorecard Reseach!


Ghostery is your friend.
 
2013-04-21 10:22:29 PM

ZAZ: I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

A politician was blowing his mouth off. They do that sometimes. A military trial would have to be based on the global war on terror and the 2001 authorization for use of military force against terrorists. At this point there isn't any evidence of international terrorism or even domestic terrorism. Terrorism is not the same as killing a lot of people.

I heard an interview with Alan Dershowitz. He said he would flunk anybody in his class who suggested a military tribunal under the circumstances.


Sounds like a terrorist.
 
2013-04-21 10:23:22 PM
Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?
 
2013-04-21 10:23:54 PM
What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!
 
2013-04-21 10:23:57 PM
I find it interesting that there is no mention of the guns they used. Not the usual AK-47, Glock, assault rifle you usually hear, and in the gun control frenzy the politicians are in right now.
 
2013-04-21 10:25:02 PM

dr_blasto: I would expect this to play out just like McVeigh's trial and end in a similar fashion.


It'd better.
 
2013-04-21 10:25:15 PM

rkiller1: Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.

Trying to follow your logic.  It then follows that the younger brother should've committed suicide, as he had many chances including popping out of the boat like Rambo.  Or shooting his own brains out.


That's exactly what the reports out now are saying - that his neck injury was him eating a bullet. He put the gun in his mouth and fired straight back through his neck, and not up through his head.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 10:25:18 PM
In federal criminal law, terrorism is defined to include only acts that
"appear to be intended-
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping"
18 USC 2331
 
2013-04-21 10:26:11 PM

awalkingecho: His doctors are actually Israeli.



You realize the nationality of his doctor has nothing to do with anything, unless you are an overt racist, right?
 
2013-04-21 10:26:41 PM

Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!


I'm pretty sure they stripped him when they carjacked his car, as either a change of clothes or to leave behind as a distraction. Or at least that's what I heard circulating. Not sure if accurate.

hunh: I find it interesting that there is no mention of the guns they used. Not the usual AK-47, Glock, assault rifle you usually hear, and in the gun control frenzy the politicians are in right now.


I'll try and find the source but one of the police reports I read said they had semi-auto pistols at the first encounter.
 
2013-04-21 10:26:46 PM

Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!


The naked man, it's my best move.  Works two out of three times.

My favorite naked man pose is the Captain Morgan.
 
2013-04-21 10:27:10 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


Because we're really mad or something and it's harder to do horrible things to citizens maybe.
 
2013-04-21 10:27:45 PM

AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?


Federal case under
18 U.S.C. 2332a Murder by the use of a weapon of mass destruction

Take your pick
 
2013-04-21 10:28:19 PM

Alonjar: One of his officers put his cruiser into gear and jumped out of it, letting it roll at the suspects to draw fire, he said. The suspects peppered the car with bullets.


That is awesome. That officer's quick use of tactics may have saved the lives of him and others.
 
2013-04-21 10:28:25 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


That way we can string him and drag his body through town behind a horse.
At least I think that's what they're getting at.
 
2013-04-21 10:28:26 PM
I hope we can learn from Dzhokhar Tsarnaev everything we possibly can!
A Boston Cop friend of mine sent me a graphic picture of his brother  Tamerlan dead on a gurney.
Pretty sick and definitely not suitable for posting.
As a former Bostonian I pray for all that are affected.
Boston Strong!
 
2013-04-21 10:28:45 PM

Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!


The naked man was naked because the police made him strip in case he had a bomb on him, like the older brother did.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:07 PM

Relatively Obscure: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

Because we're really mad or something and it's harder to do horrible things to citizens maybe.


Yep.  In some people's minds, it relieves us from our responsibilities to the rule of law.  Thank you, Alberto Gonzales, you farking worthless shiatstain of a man.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:27 PM
It would suck to be this dudes lawyer.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:37 PM

Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!


Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:42 PM

awalkingecho: Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!

I'm pretty sure they stripped him when they carjacked his car, as either a change of clothes or to leave behind as a distraction. Or at least that's what I heard circulating. Not sure if accurate.

hunh: I find it interesting that there is no mention of the guns they used. Not the usual AK-47, Glock, assault rifle you usually hear, and in the gun control frenzy the politicians are in right now.

I'll try and find the source but one of the police reports I read said they had semi-auto pistols at the first encounter.


Glocks alone prolly kill more people than every spree rifle combined ever each year.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:56 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

That way we can string him [up] and drag his body through town behind a horse.
At least I think that's what they're getting at.

ftfm
 
2013-04-21 10:29:57 PM

cretinbob: You realize the nationality of his doctor has nothing to do with anything, unless you are an overt racist, right?


And openly Jewish; if it wasn't that article there was another where the doctor was at-length questioned as to whether or not faith was affecting, consciously or unconsciously the care he was receiving. It was a point of interest; enough so that a news source actually made an article centered around it, so fark me for sharing it.

Cats and dogs living together.

Welcometofark.jpg
 
2013-04-21 10:30:02 PM
As predicted, Fartbongo is preparing to pardon him.
 
2013-04-21 10:30:10 PM

Relatively Obscure: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

Because we're really mad or something and it's harder to do horrible things to citizens maybe.


That's about all I can figure.

Which is pretty fkn sick.
 
2013-04-21 10:30:25 PM

jaytkay: saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY

People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.


Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such. Even civilian does not convey criminal. What is a civilian court? All I can find is it is not a military court but mostly goog tells me it is a civil and not a criminal court. There is a distinct difference.
 
2013-04-21 10:30:48 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


The ITGs are masturbating over the thought of torturing the kid and sending him to Gitmo.
 
2013-04-21 10:30:49 PM
Also, just as a further evidence of probable Federal prosecution, he was actually taken into custody by the FBI. Boston PD were on the scene but it was the Feds that caught him so he is already technically in Federal custody.
 
2013-04-21 10:31:53 PM

phrawgh: As predicted, Fartbongo is preparing to pardon him.


...and then give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom
 
2013-04-21 10:31:59 PM

Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.


Er.. no?
 
2013-04-21 10:32:09 PM

LordJiro: Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!

The naked man was naked because the police made him strip in case he had a bomb on him, like the older brother did.


Yeah, but who is he? How is he connected to the brothers? If a third person is involved that makes it sound more like a terrorist cell.
 
2013-04-21 10:33:21 PM

Mad_Radhu: Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.


Physics. How the fark does it work?
 
2013-04-21 10:33:33 PM

Samwise Gamgee: It's possible I've seen too much Mission: Impossible.


And they could tape it. The only problem is the tape would self destruct in five seconds.
 
2013-04-21 10:33:40 PM
I wonder if he's going to be talking like this woman for the rest of his life:

cdn.abclocal.go.com
 
2013-04-21 10:34:16 PM

saturn badger: BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Military or civi? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.

It wasn't  my idea, it was the republicans who were discussing trying to get the Bush-era debates going again so this kid could be moved to a tribunal. I know he doesn't qualify for anything other than State or Federal.

I didn't get that from your comment and have been tuned out of the news the last few days. Been out chillin' and partying. Sometimes that is a better place to be.


Totally hear ya there... I left the news completely off almost all day yesterday - then when I turned it on people were shooting into the crowd in Colorado at the 4/20 rally, and then, like, 5 people were killed in an avalanche. So I turned it back off. If the Mayas had predicted April instead of December, idda been nervous this week...
 
2013-04-21 10:34:16 PM
It's simple.  Obama wanted miranda warnings for terrorist under bush.  Now that black bush is in charge, well we can just ship him off to Guantanamo or some other unlisted facility.
 
2013-04-21 10:34:19 PM

J Noble Daggett: At this point, they will have to focus their questioning about public safety, as in "are there more bombs", "where are additional bombs", "are there other who were helping you who might be ready to hurt people"???


This is permitted under the ruling about public safety.

They do not need to, nor should they, ask him questions related to intended prosecution. For that, they will have evidence taken from the chase, the capture, his apartments, eye witnesses and video. There is no reason to compromise any of that.


Bingo.

This questioning, the whole "Public Safety Exemption" is on the idea that maybe they weren't acting alone, that they had other contacts in the US, or had other bombs set, or at least built.

The evidence against him is a goddamn mountain without him saying a word.  As has been pointed out, the murder of the MIT PD officer alone, which was WELL documented on its own, is enough to make sure he's never a free man again.  If he doesn't say a thing, or if everything he says is ruled inadmissible in court, he's still never going to walk free again.

You think prosecutors are going to flush their career over a slam-dunk super-high-profile case on something as simple as a freaking Miranda Warning?  I'm sure they are quite sure of their course of action on this.
 
2013-04-21 10:34:59 PM

saturn badger: People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such.


Lighten up. Non-lawyers are not using proper legal terms. It happens.
 
2013-04-21 10:35:03 PM

wxboy: I wonder if he's going to be talking like this woman for the rest of his life:

[cdn.abclocal.go.com image 600x338]


What the shiat, man?
 
2013-04-21 10:36:42 PM

ideamaster: It's simple.  Obama wanted miranda warnings for terrorist under bush.  Now that black bush is in charge, well we can just ship him off to Guantanamo or some other unlisted facility.


I'll give you 1/10, because there are actually people stupid enough to believe that.
 
2013-04-21 10:37:00 PM

Relatively Obscure: Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.

Er.. no?


I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.
 
2013-04-21 10:37:15 PM
Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.
 
2013-04-21 10:38:55 PM

Lionel Mandrake: phrawgh: As predicted, Fartbongo is preparing to pardon him.

...and then give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom


Them foreign born muslims always stick together.
 
2013-04-21 10:39:22 PM

HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.


I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.
 
2013-04-21 10:39:43 PM

saturn badger: jaytkay: saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY

People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such. Even civilian does not convey criminal. What is a civilian court? All I can find is it is not a military court but mostly goog tells me it is a civil and not a criminal court. There is a distinct difference.


In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.
 
2013-04-21 10:39:48 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?


This is bullshiat.

You don't have to immediately read someone's Miranda Rights, especially not when they are in need of urgent medical assistance. There are multiple clauses when it can be delayed.

No one walks merely because they were not read their miranda rights, that's TV fiction
 
2013-04-21 10:40:49 PM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Seriously, just because they're calling it an act of terrorism doesn't mean it's automatically going to go before a federal court.  They'll give MA the first choice at a trial, just like was done with John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo.


I think they'll weigh options.  Virginia got first crack at Muhammed and Malvo because they have the death penalty, but Maryland did not.  Since Mass doesn't have the death penalty, there is more pressure to charge them in federal court.
 
2013-04-21 10:41:21 PM
My proposed punishment: locked in a cell with the gruesome injuries he caused plastered on the walls around him, Dexter-style. He'll spend the rest of his life looking at bloody stumps dead/suffering people, and the picture of his brother's mutilated corpse front and center.

And the first meal delivered to him should be chicken wings and... something with marinara sauce. Enjoy your meal!
 
2013-04-21 10:41:21 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: The brothers' uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, told the Associated Press that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was "used" by his older brother to carry out the bombing. "He's not been understanding anything," Tsarni said. "He's a 19-year-old boy."

/Ya, i'm not buying that shiat dude. I can understand your family's pain at being relations to terrorists, but he's 19, MORE than old enough to know that planting bombs and blowing up innocent men, women, and children is wrong. Esp since he's been in country this long. I don't doubt that his brother was a major teacher of hate and intolerance, but he had his own mind, and unless you can prove he's a sociopath, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and its consequences.


I am no longer 19 but I damned well knew well before that age one did not put explosives in crowds of people. I also knew there would be fearsome consequences if I did. Uncle Tsarni can join the rest of his clan with their heads up their asses.
 
2013-04-21 10:41:26 PM
Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice what I preach, even in the shiat.
 
2013-04-21 10:41:35 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

That way we can string him and drag his body through town behind a horse.
At least I think that's what they're getting at.


And, in spite of all the desire to strip him of any rights, he still has them regardless of his citizenship. These Farkers are forgetting that the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, not just citizens.

I see a lot of pro-2A anti-gun-control people demanding we remove this dude's rights.
 
2013-04-21 10:42:55 PM

scraping-fetus-off-the-wheel: The federal prosecutor is going to do this one by the numbers. There is a microscope focused on this case and if it gets screwed up because someone didn't do everything by the book then every senator and congress critter will be screaming for the next 2 years on cable news. No one wants more of that.


Getting off on a technicality does not happen anymore. Around here they arrested a guy for raping a few people but the city DA farked up the paperwork and he sat in jail for close to a year before the judge dismissed his case. Somehow after that a petition of sorts was filed and new charges were brought.
 
2013-04-21 10:43:08 PM

awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.


You're worried about wasting bandwidth?  Here?
 
2013-04-21 10:43:10 PM

saturn badger: jaytkay: saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY

People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such. Even civilian does not convey criminal. What is a civilian court? All I can find is it is not a military court but mostly goog tells me it is a civil and not a criminal court. There is a distinct difference.


Don't be silly, they still wear suits in criminal courts.
 
2013-04-21 10:43:28 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?


No.

Miranda warning makes things admissible in court. They can ask him anything without Mirandizing, as long as they don't want or need the responses for a conviction.

So, for example, I am sure they are asking if there are more bombs that need to be defused.
 
2013-04-21 10:43:40 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?


No.  Regardless of what he says, they have enough evidence otherwise to keep him in jail, particularly with the murder of the MIT officer.  Presumably they have physical evidence for the bombings as well.

It's not like they are holding someone they NEED a confession from.  It would be nice, but I imagine they have plenty of other evidence they can use.
 
2013-04-21 10:43:59 PM

HotWingAgenda: Relatively Obscure: Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.

Er.. no?

I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.


Simply confusing mass with energy.
 
2013-04-21 10:45:30 PM

lifeboat: That's exactly what the reports out now are saying - that his neck injury was him eating a bullet. He put the gun in his mouth and fired straight back through his neck, and not up through his head.


Then he has terrible aim. The correct aim in that instance would have paralyzed him so he couldn't write.

He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.
 
2013-04-21 10:46:10 PM

astouffer: Getting off on a technicality does not happen anymore. Around here they arrested a guy for raping a few people but the city DA farked up the paperwork and he sat in jail for close to a year before the judge dismissed his case. Somehow after that a petition of sorts was filed and new charges were brought


Isn't that double jeopardy? Or were they different charges? I'd imagine they couldn't have been as serious as his first ones, if so.

 

Relatively Obscure: You're worried about wasting bandwidth?  Here?


I dunno man, Fark got farked several times this week over this case... I don't want to use all Drew's beer money.
 
2013-04-21 10:46:49 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.


Yo don't get to walk simply because you weren't Mirandized. The results of not being informed of your rights would mean that any confession or evidence you provided may not be admissible in court. If that's the only evidence they have, then you might walk.
 
2013-04-21 10:46:52 PM

awalkingecho: Relatively Obscure: You're worried about wasting bandwidth? Here?

I dunno man, Fark got farked several times this week over this case... I don't want to use all Drew's beer money.


Fair point.  Fair point.
 
2013-04-21 10:47:02 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


I think most people would settle for a fair trial and then execution.  Not really sure we need to torture him unless there's a sleep cell planning more attacks, and even then we'd need pretty good proof that that's the case.
 
2013-04-21 10:47:09 PM

I_C_Weener: [smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net image 598x300]


Stay frosty.
 
2013-04-21 10:47:49 PM

awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.


that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com
 
2013-04-21 10:48:01 PM

awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.


i35.tinypic.com

When I was twelve, I helped my daddy build a bomb shelter in our basement because some fool parked a dozen warheads 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Well, this thing could park a coupla hundred warheads off Washington and New York and no one would know anything about it till it was all over.
 
2013-04-21 10:48:35 PM
wheres his lawyer?
 
2013-04-21 10:49:10 PM
I really don't care about learning this douchebag's name. From here on out I'm calling him Jeckle. The dead one will be Heckle.
 
2013-04-21 10:49:12 PM

Tatsuma: Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

This is bullshiat.

You don't have to immediately read someone's Miranda Rights, especially not when they are in need of urgent medical assistance. There are multiple clauses when it can be delayed.

No one walks merely because they were not read their miranda rights, that's TV fiction


Ok chill out. It was just a question which you answered. Thanks

And other than a few tv broadcasts, I haven't watched TV since 2009.
 
2013-04-21 10:49:22 PM
currieddogfart.com
 
2013-04-21 10:49:26 PM

Lsherm: they have enough evidence otherwise to keep him in jail, particularly with the murder of the MIT officer.


Yes, they have enough evidence to put him away forever, but is there much on that? No witnesses or video that I've heard of.

Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?
 
2013-04-21 10:49:39 PM

dr_blasto: Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.

Yo don't get to walk simply because you weren't Mirandized. The results of not being informed of your rights would mean that any confession or evidence you provided may not be admissible in court. If that's the only evidence they have, then you might walk.


fortunately we have eye witnesses, video footage, still photos, forensic evidence and a ton of ready to throw bombs at their house and in their car. I don't think a confession is very necessary
 
2013-04-21 10:49:42 PM

skullkrusher: that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com


Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot I was viewing this article from the mirror site, everyonesanarmchairexpertoneverything.fark.com
 
2013-04-21 10:49:51 PM

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


for CHARGES?
 
2013-04-21 10:49:59 PM

jaytkay: The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".


Sorry, that made me LoL. If the goverment is permitted to twist kitchen appliances into WMDs, you have much greater worries than a couple of crazy Chechens.
 
2013-04-21 10:50:06 PM

Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

It doesn't say whether or not he's being interrogated.  It does say he's "not in any condition to be interrogated."  They might just be asking things like "Do you need any pillows" or whatever.

Then again, they might not be.


I believe they're trying to get confirmation that there are no more bombs somewhere in the city. Hence why his Miranda rights were not given
 
2013-04-21 10:50:28 PM

skullkrusher: awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.

that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com


That's weird, that URL redirects to Reddit.
 
2013-04-21 10:50:31 PM

Coastalgrl: Ok chill out. It was just a question which you answered. Thanks


... I wasn't being rude, I was just telling you that all of the people saying that he needs his miranda rights or he could walk are just saying a load of bullshiat, I wasn't insulting you.

knowless: wheres his lawyer?


He's being represented by the Feds.
 
2013-04-21 10:50:48 PM
www.charlock.org
 
2013-04-21 10:50:58 PM

Relatively Obscure: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

Because we're really mad or something and it's harder to do horrible things to citizens maybe.


It is in and of itself a punishment. I only brought it up as a part of the discussion on his rights, in a devils advocate role. It's amazing what you can learn here if you pay attention. Some people actually know things here.
 
2013-04-21 10:51:36 PM
I hope they ask him which Pony is his favourite.
 
2013-04-21 10:52:07 PM

HotWingAgenda: Relatively Obscure: Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.

Er.. no?

I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.


An object in motion kinda slows down.

In a closed system, energy fluctuates.

For every action, there's a reaction of some sort.
 
2013-04-21 10:52:13 PM

saturn badger: He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.


He did a good job of escaping a gunfight in view of half a dozen police.
 
2013-04-21 10:52:19 PM

awalkingecho: skullkrusher: that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com

Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot I was viewing this article from the mirror site, everyonesanarmchairexpertoneverything.fark.com


hehe nice
 
2013-04-21 10:52:31 PM

Tatsuma: He's being represented by the Feds.


So is Bradley Manning.
 
2013-04-21 10:53:09 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


It makes me wonder why people like that are proud of America and proud to be Americans.  I mean, if they think that America should strip rights from people and torture them, how can they be proud of that?  On the other hand, when I hear about people like you, who put yourself in danger, yet still maintain your principled American standards...that why I'm proud of America and proud to be American.  Thank you!
 
2013-04-21 10:53:50 PM

cretinbob: It's amazing what you can learn here if you pay attention. Some people actually know things here.


Now you're just making shiat up.
 
2013-04-21 10:54:23 PM

awalkingecho: skullkrusher: that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com

Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot I was viewing this article from the mirror site, everyonesanarmchairexpertoneverything.fark.com


i163.photobucket.com

You're an armchair!
 
2013-04-21 10:54:42 PM

jaytkay: saturn badger: He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.

He did a good job of escaping a gunfight in view of half a dozen police.


I actually really want to know how the hell that happened. Are the BPD bad shots and this looked like an 80s GIJOE cartoon or did these guys somehow have the best luck in the world?

/there may be truth to the BPD being bad shots
//apparently, their budget has been cut so much that they can only go to the range for training once a year
 
2013-04-21 10:55:51 PM

Tatsuma: ... I wasn't being rude


Calling someone's simple question 'bullshiat' is rude among normal people.
 
2013-04-21 10:56:38 PM
What a tragedy. If only these two brothers had had religion in their lives.
 
2013-04-21 10:57:00 PM
I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?
 
2013-04-21 10:57:19 PM

neenerist: Sorry, that made me LoL. If the goverment is permitted to twist kitchen appliances into WMDs, you have much greater worries than a couple of crazy Chechens.


You have no idea what a WMD is, do you? From wikipedia:

For the purposes of US Law, weapons of mass destruction are defined as
- any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses
- any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life
- any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector
- any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life

The Federal Bureau of Investigation's definition is similar to that presented above from the terrorism statute:

- any explosive or incendiary device: bomb, grenade, rocket, missile, mine or other decices with a charge of more than four ounces
- any weapons designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through release, dissemination or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors
- any weapons involving a disease organism
- any weapon designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life
- any device or weapon designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury by causing a malfunction of or destruction of an aircraft or other vehicle that carries humans or of an aircraft or other vehicle whose malfunction or destruction may cause said aircraft or other vehicle to cause death or serious bodily injury to humans who may be within range of the vector in its course of travel or the travel of its debris.

Meaning a pipe bomb or cactus needles coated with butolin toxic would be considered WMDs
 
2013-04-21 10:57:36 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?


Poorly?
 
2013-04-21 10:57:54 PM

NewportBarGuy: awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.

[i35.tinypic.com image 570x240]

When I was twelve, I helped my daddy build a bomb shelter in our basement because some fool parked a dozen warheads 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Well, this thing could park a coupla hundred warheads off Washington and New York and no one would know anything about it till it was all over.


god damn you.  now im gonna have to go and rewatch THfRO
 
2013-04-21 10:58:24 PM

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.


A WMD is defined, for legal purposes, as "any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses."

I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.
 
2013-04-21 10:58:27 PM

Mugato: What the shiat, man?


Cancer survivor with a trach, giving some anti-smoking PSA that runs on the air at least in IL.
 
2013-04-21 10:58:31 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?


He was unarmed when he was in custody because he left the gun in the boat/threw it overboard first before he surrendered willingly
 
2013-04-21 10:59:55 PM
Great post xyphoid.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:29 PM

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


Could be:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a

My understanding is bombs count for purposes of this law, but ain't sure.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:42 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


So he can be sent to gitmo for some cawk meat sammiches.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:43 PM
Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:55 PM

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.




Agree 100%. Any time you violate or propose to violate the rights of another citizen, you are creating a rod for your own back.

Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due time - that's good enough for me and it should be good enough for the civilized world. Or else, just why the hell do we suppose to be better than these terrorist pukes.
 
2013-04-21 11:01:09 PM

jaytkay: saturn badger: People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such.

Lighten up. Non-lawyers are not using proper legal terms. It happens.


Aside from the quote I didn't say sure. I'll let everyone use the improper terms as much as they like but is does clarify the conversation.

/carry on
 
2013-04-21 11:01:10 PM

Tatsuma: Meaning a pipe bomb or cactus needles coated with butolin toxic would be considered WMDs


WHEN ARE WE GOING TO BAN PRICKLY PEARS AND DENTED CANS?! HOW LONG MUST THIS GO ON?!
 
2013-04-21 11:01:14 PM

rkiller1: Or shooting his own brains out.


FWIW, I heard a news report today saying he may have "self-inflicted" wounds. It mentioned that one of the bullet wounds was in "the head/neck area" so it could be that he tried to do just what you posited.
 
2013-04-21 11:01:42 PM
Regarding reading him his Miranda Rights, I believe the worst that could happen would be that they wouldn't be able to use anything he tells them against him in court. But since they have photos, and possibly video, of him planting one of the bombs, it doesn't really matter what he does or doesn't tell them. He's spending the rest of his life in prison. The only question is how long that life lasts.
 
2013-04-21 11:02:58 PM

ISO15693: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

for CHARGES?


sure, at least temporarily.  Hey, if they think that's a deal-killer for their moving here, I can respect that.
 
2013-04-21 11:03:02 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice what I preach, even in the shiat.


De-lurking for the sole purpose of saying: "thank you, reasonable human person".
 
2013-04-21 11:03:13 PM

shower_in_my_socks: Regarding reading him his Miranda Rights, I believe the worst that could happen would be that they wouldn't be able to use anything he tells them against him in court. But since they have photos, and possibly video, of him planting one of the bombs, it doesn't really matter what he does or doesn't tell them. He's spending the rest of his life in prison. The only question is how long that life lasts.


And it's only before they tell him about his miranda rights anyway, which most likely has happened by now, so it's not like we won't be able to know anything until ten
 
2013-04-21 11:03:27 PM

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


I get the feeling right now the police/FBI/etc just want to know who ELSE they should be looking for.
 
2013-04-21 11:03:55 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.


I don't think you have to worry about that. Him walking? Not a chance.
 
2013-04-21 11:04:35 PM
Xypho:Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


THIS. If I could, I would shake your hand, Sir.. That sums up EXACTLY what I feel, especially after reading a lot of these "lynch mob mentality" posts.
/Lost my MOM on 9/11
//Didnt want blood
 
2013-04-21 11:04:38 PM

somedude210: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

It doesn't say whether or not he's being interrogated.  It does say he's "not in any condition to be interrogated."  They might just be asking things like "Do you need any pillows" or whatever.

Then again, they might not be.

I believe they're trying to get confirmation that there are no more bombs somewhere in the city. Hence why his Miranda rights were not given


Also, if he's on enough painkillers, reading him his Miranda rights might be pointless.

When I sold insurance, if someone where drunk or on drugs, I could not sell them insurance since the documents were considered contracts.  I'd imagine the same rules would be in place for who reading someone their rights.  Wouldn't want some defense lawyer arguing that because he wasn't of sound mind when his rights were read he was unaware of them.
 
2013-04-21 11:04:46 PM

comslave: Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.


so torture used by the US is good but torture used by anyone else is bad?
 
2013-04-21 11:05:31 PM
Some roaches run and hide. Some roaches dissemble and hide in plain view. Some roaches get caught and interrogated. Now, for some reason,more running and dissembling roaches are going to be caught and interrogated than prior to the events of this year's Boston marathon. Roach infestashuns kan be nasti.
 
2013-04-21 11:06:33 PM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.

A WMD is defined, for legal purposes, as "any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses."

I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.


Great! So my ass is a weapon of mass destruction when I eat at Taco Bell!?
 
2013-04-21 11:06:53 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.



No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.

Plus, right now, mirandizing him wouldn't do any good because his lawyer could always claim that any confession he gives would be groundless because he was heavily medicated and not in his right mind.

When he is out of the hospital and booked into jail, he will be mirandized and questioned. It's not that hard to understand. Unfortunately, people are freaking out because reality isn't playing out like a cop show.
 
2013-04-21 11:06:59 PM
We should force him to watch the Khardasians over and over.
 
2013-04-21 11:07:02 PM
Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.
 
2013-04-21 11:07:11 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?


You had a lot of guys with their fingers on the trigger. I'm betting that they heard/saw the attempted suicide shot and unleashed holy hell. Pour lead to neutralize. Pretty much SOP. He survived. Have not seen a single report that he fired at them from the boat. It would be a sh*tty vantage for him. Ever been in a covered boat in a backyard at night? You can't see sh*t.
 
2013-04-21 11:07:54 PM

BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.


Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.
 
2013-04-21 11:07:56 PM
There are so many victims here. Think of the poor widow. She converted to Islam. We should all chip in and pay for her to relocate to Saudi Arabia so she can enjoy the support of her Muslim brothers and sisters.
 
2013-04-21 11:08:30 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.


You know who else wasn't tried?
 
2013-04-21 11:09:16 PM

jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?


He was outside the convenience store that got robbed, I thought?  Not sure why they shot him, though.  Maybe they thought he saw and recognized them?

HideAndGoFarkYourself: I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.


Yeah, I see that now from the earlier cite too, but FWIW that's not how the term originated. It's just already been watered down to mean that in US law.  (Which I have a problem with, and no one cares, I get it. :))  Personally I find it interesting that guns are so nicely exempted though if they're gonna go that far.

I mean, what if these two killers had decided to pick people off with rifles as they crossed the finish line?
 
2013-04-21 11:09:23 PM
What's his fark account?
 
2013-04-21 11:09:29 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.


Even if the case weren't all but surely ironclad... 

Do you think in such an emotionally-charged case, with all of the drama that happened in the shutting down of Boston, there's a jury that wouldn't convict him? They might as well prance him into the courtroom and then send the jury to deliberate.
 
2013-04-21 11:09:43 PM
Sadly, this POS was granted citizenship, which means that he is afforded all rights that belong to a citizen of the USA.  You know how much it will end up costing the taxpayers to hold, try, convict and punish this POS?
But, in a (so called) civilized society, that is the price we pay.  I just hope the powers to be don't try an end run around the 5th amendment, and "wave" said freedoms, "due to the nature of the crime".  They already have illegally bypassed so many laws for "the war on terrorism" (homeland security, no warrant wiretapping and on and on), to them, what's another one, "in the need for security".
 
2013-04-21 11:09:46 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Thank you.
 
2013-04-21 11:09:48 PM
Kyrgyzstan has inferior potassium.
 
2013-04-21 11:09:54 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.


When this blows over, all the ITGs can go back to whargarbling about needing moar guns to overthrow tyranny.
 
2013-04-21 11:09:59 PM
Get well soon, shiathead, so we can put your stupid ass on trial.
 
2013-04-21 11:10:58 PM

jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?


They shot him because shots were fired from the boat.  After reading some articles today, it appears he shot himself, but police probably thought he was shooting at them.
 
2013-04-21 11:11:16 PM

Weaver95: comslave: Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.

so torture used by the US is good but torture used by anyone else is bad?


Yeah, Sherman said it best:

Only those who've never seen it cry for more.
 
2013-04-21 11:11:22 PM

DoctorCal: ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.

When this blows over, all the ITGs can go back to whargarbling about needing moar guns to overthrow tyranny.


Don't worry, in Oregon this month two children have been shot dead.

I don't know of any murderers shot dead in Oregon this month.
 
2013-04-21 11:11:26 PM

doglover: Great! So my ass is a weapon of mass destruction when I eat at Taco Bell!?


...H2S gas? Hell yeah!
 
2013-04-21 11:13:08 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


*check profile*

You're probably reading this because I've blown your mind with some salient point that you disagree with, and were probably hoping to find out something here to discredit me.

I checked it because you actually made sense. Another sane voice out here in farkland. You have a lot of wisdom for a young 'un.

/and a favorite now
 
2013-04-21 11:13:35 PM

puffy999: I don't know of any murderers shot dead in Oregon this month.


Well if they were shot dead, they'd have no trial. So they wouldn't be murders yet, to the letter of the law, now would they?

/rights cut both ways
 
2013-04-21 11:14:21 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


So he can be sent to Gitmo. Because Jesus. And the Constitution. No citizenship means no trial, and thus we can all sleep safer. Because trials will only make us less safe. And he can't be sent to prison, because...terrorism. And Jesus. We can only send God Fearing Christians to prison, because if you send a Muslim to prison, they just grow more powerful, and thus, to avoid a Super Muslim power level. What stymies us is that so many people turn to Islam while in prison, but luckily, by feeding them Pork'N Beans secretly, we can bleed off the Muslim Prison Effect. And because then we can just deport him, after we leave him in Gitmo for a few decades, and...and...oh feck it...

Yeah. It doesn't really matter. For criminal purposes, even non-citizens have the same rights. Administratively, that is a slightly different matter, for staying in the country, and essentially, it is a move by the pants besh*tted who lack any faith in our judicial system, and who imagine that our courts would be just sullied by trying folks who did bad things. Or have vivid imaginations about what folks could do to a prisoner without any citizenship and some very dark fantasies. Non-citizens may not be allowed to see all the evidence against them, and that is an exception that was made sort of recently.

I find it interesting that folks who have screamed loud and long about the Second Amendment, seem to really dislike the First, and now the 5th and 6th. The Gub'ment is coming for their guns, but when it comes to folks they don't like, then freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and all the rest are just so much excess that we can't fit into their pontoon liferaft...
 
2013-04-21 11:15:24 PM

Weaver95: comslave: Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.

so torture used by the US is good but torture used by anyone else is bad?


Yes.  Because AMERICA - F*CK YEAH!!1!
 
2013-04-21 11:15:45 PM

doglover: HideAndGoFarkYourself: itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.

A WMD is defined, for legal purposes, as "any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses."

I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.

Great! So my ass is a weapon of mass destruction when I eat at Taco Bell!?


I ate corned beef and sauerkraut for dinner, so right now I'm going off like an automatic weapon.

/Multiple rounds per "trigger pull"
 
2013-04-21 11:17:02 PM
Apparently "weapons of mass distruction" has a different meaning in the US then the rest of the world since 2006.  That explains a lot.

The kid will face a fair trail, justice is not simply about arresting and charging someone.  The healing process requires justice, not a lynch mob.
 
2013-04-21 11:17:04 PM
What I envision his trial to be like

images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-04-21 11:18:06 PM
First thing I thought of...no one else???
www.chud.com
 
2013-04-21 11:18:30 PM

LordOfThePings: Oh, good, now we can all focus on their motivations like they matter.

They don't.


Why not?
 
2013-04-21 11:19:48 PM

jaytkay: saturn badger: He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.

He did a good job of escaping a gunfight in view of half a dozen police.


Well, there is that.

Ok, two things. Your point.
 
2013-04-21 11:20:20 PM

popesballs: Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due time


No. He got life.
 
2013-04-21 11:21:04 PM

saturn badger: BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.

Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.


Yes, that is correct, criminal and civil courts are very different. Civi (no L) does not mean civil (has an L), though - civi (no L) is slang for civilian. So a "civi court" (no L) means either state or federal criminal court.
 
2013-04-21 11:21:27 PM

Ranger Rover: Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

Could be:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a

My understanding is bombs count for purposes of this law, but ain't sure.


Simply by using a bomb gives the feds the option to step in.  They don't have to, but the option is there.
 
2013-04-21 11:21:59 PM

popesballs: Agree 100%. Any time you violate or propose to violate the rights of another citizen, you are creating a rod for your own back.


Never in my life heard this phrase used before, but agree one hundred percent with the sentiment.
 
2013-04-21 11:22:51 PM

quatchi: I don't think Hallmark even makes a card for this occasion.

Get Well Soon ...so we can try you in a court of law and send your blood thirsty little punkass to PMITA prison for the rest of your miserable farked up life!


Federal charges, Federal death penalty.
No state bullshiat. He killed 5 playing terrorist.
 
2013-04-21 11:23:34 PM

awalkingecho: Well if they were shot dead, they'd have no trial.


Well since we're being technical, there have been many people convicted of murder released from jail or prison in their lives.
 
2013-04-21 11:23:35 PM

Braggi: We should force him to watch the Khardasians over and over.


Cruel and unusual.

*I like it.*
 
2013-04-21 11:25:03 PM

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


Then we could make everything a "terror" offense then we can kick out all the brown people then we can just get rid of civil rights altogether.

/that might be a very stupid idea
 
2013-04-21 11:25:15 PM

JohnBigBootay: Great post xyphoid.


Yeah
 
2013-04-21 11:25:18 PM

BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.

Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.

Yes, that is correct, criminal and civil courts are very different. Civi (no L) does not mean civil (has an L), though - civi (no L) is slang for civilian. So a "civi court" (no L) means either state or federal criminal court.


Such as you might find in a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich.
 
2013-04-21 11:26:00 PM

saturn badger: puffy999: Shove a mercury thermometer up his dick and have someone smash it with a hammer.

Wow. That is harsh, dude, harsh.


I was going to suggest Gregory Hines tapdance on it, but he's dead.
 
2013-04-21 11:26:29 PM

Lsherm: jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?

They shot him because shots were fired from the boat.  After reading some articles today, it appears he shot himself, but police probably thought he was shooting at them.


No, I asked how the MIT cop came across them, and why did they shoot the MIT cop?

Someone suggested the cop was at the 7-11 but I looked and he was shot elsewhere. MAP
 
2013-04-21 11:26:55 PM

puffy999: awalkingecho: Well if they were shot dead, they'd have no trial.

Well since we're being technical, there have been many people convicted of murder released from jail or prison in their lives.


I'll meet you in the middle on that one and we'll call it a wash.
 
2013-04-21 11:27:08 PM

stoli n coke: No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.


Not actually true.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest
 
2013-04-21 11:28:38 PM

Tatsuma: You have no idea what a WMD is, do you?


You have no idea that doesn't change the point, do you? BTW, how old are those definitons? Care to guess?
 
2013-04-21 11:29:02 PM

jaytkay: Lsherm: jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?

They shot him because shots were fired from the boat.  After reading some articles today, it appears he shot himself, but police probably thought he was shooting at them.

No, I asked how the MIT cop came across them, and why did they shoot the MIT cop?

Someone suggested the cop was at the 7-11 but I looked and he was shot elsewhere. MAP


Oh, beats the hell out of me.  Maybe he had an ID of the car and chased them?
 
2013-04-21 11:30:25 PM

AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?


What kind of a stupid question is that? We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen. Whether he is evil or not is what the courts are there to decide.
 
2013-04-21 11:30:56 PM

Weaver95: we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.


Just as soon as we can bring this guy back to life so we can hire him to do the job. After all, he taught the CIA everything it knows.

www.bitsofnews.com
 
2013-04-21 11:31:05 PM

Sliding Carp: Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended twisted into whatever shape the gubmint wants on this one.


The U.S. Government is very good at twisting laws to meet their needs.
 
2013-04-21 11:31:19 PM

Gyrfalcon: We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen.


We should go by the rules anyway.
 
2013-04-21 11:31:37 PM

starsrift: saturn badger: jaytkay: saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY

People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such. Even civilian does not convey criminal. What is a civilian court? All I can find is it is not a military court but mostly goog tells me it is a civil and not a criminal court. There is a distinct difference.

Don't be silly, they still wear suits in criminal courts.


Also, there are civilian courts where both criminal and civil actions are heard. Not sure about military courts and civil procedings, b ut I suppose it's possible.
 
2013-04-21 11:31:47 PM

neenerist: You have no idea that doesn't change the point, do you? BTW, how old are those definitons? Care to guess?


Rather recent, and that's how they are still prosecuted today.

You made a stupid post, everyone agrees that an IED inside a pressure cooker is a WMD under the legal definition, just move, stop digging.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:12 PM
Could he be stripped of his citizenship? After all, he's only been a citizen since September 11, 2012.

If they prove that he and his brothers had been planning this beforehand, could they say that he lied when he took the oath, and therefore strip it from him?
 
2013-04-21 11:33:24 PM

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


Actually, due to the Organized Crime Control Act, 18 U.S.C.A. 841-848, which places bombings under federal jurisdiction, you're wrong on this account *and* OKC.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:29 PM
The shooting of the MIT cop happened shortly after the 7/11 but yeah, turns out not even near it?  That really is extra WTF.

Who's the fifth murder victim, though?  Brother doesn't count, surely? (It's going to take an autopsy to even determine what killed him among the vast amount of choice injuries.)  They got three at the marathon, plus the MIT cop, almost killed the transit cop but he was saved, it seems like.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:51 PM

Voiceofreason01: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

Then we could make everything a "terror" offense then we can kick out all the brown people then we can just get rid of civil rights altogether.

/that might be a very stupid idea


I doubt this particular complaint would bear out; I don't see courts being amenable to that for white collar crimes, domestic or drug-related murder, etc, it's a slippery slope argument that reality wouldn't bear out. But as for stretching the boundaries of things like bank robbery, domestic mass murder like Newtown, etc, it's definitely a worry.

The bigger worry is setting the precedent for different classes of American citizens. I think one or the other, either you're a citizen or you're not, is the way to go. Introducing variable classes of citizenship is the hallmark of scary governments everywhere.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:55 PM

hubiestubert: I find it interesting that folks who have screamed loud and long about the Second Amendment, seem to really dislike the First, and now the 5th and 6th.


Well, holding books and warrants and shiat doesn't make you look like a bad-ass the way holding a gun does!

and ain't no speedy trial gonna save us from tyranny!!
 
2013-04-21 11:34:25 PM

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


Um why would this be a miltary court?
 
2013-04-21 11:35:36 PM

Gyrfalcon: AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?

What kind of a stupid question is that? We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen. Whether he is evil or not is what the courts are there to decide.

Anwar Al-Awlaki  says no, definitely not, from beyond the grave.

 
2013-04-21 11:36:38 PM

Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.


Energy still has mass... thats that pesky E=mc² thing...
 
2013-04-21 11:36:43 PM

Tatsuma: neenerist: You have no idea that doesn't change the point, do you? BTW, how old are those definitons? Care to guess?

Rather recent, and that's how they are still prosecuted today.

You made a stupid post, everyone agrees that an IED inside a pressure cooker is a WMD under the legal definition, just move, stop digging.


That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.
 
2013-04-21 11:37:14 PM

Lsherm: ZAZ: The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

They used a bomb.  That makes it federal.  I suppose they could charge him in both jurisdictions, but I think the feds would take the lead.


I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state.  McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level.  But this incident was purely done inside a single state.
 
2013-04-21 11:37:50 PM

dr_blasto: Simply confusing mass with energy.


Or is he confusing mass with matter?
 
2013-04-21 11:38:00 PM
Here a potential completely under the table plea deal: Death penaly, or Death penalty. Cooperate, and he gets the Death Penalty..at a Supermax, where he will be protected and get good treatment through years and years of appeals.  Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.
 
2013-04-21 11:38:40 PM
When they charge him, they should charge him with his brother's murder as well... after all, he drove over him...

//slap to his face
 
2013-04-21 11:39:01 PM

itazurakko: The shooting of the MIT cop happened shortly after the 7/11 but yeah, turns out not even near it?  That really is extra WTF.

Who's the fifth murder victim, though?  Brother doesn't count, surely? (It's going to take an autopsy to even determine what killed him among the vast amount of choice injuries.)  They got three at the marathon, plus the MIT cop, almost killed the transit cop but he was saved, it seems like.


Reliable sources say he ran over his brother while the police were handcuffing said  brother. Yeah, it's five.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:17 PM

Bisu: Or is he confusing mass with matter?


Like Jonestown?
 
2013-04-21 11:39:17 PM

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.


If they let him walk, he wouldn't live more than a day.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:22 PM

Warlordtrooper: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Um why would this be a miltary court?


Apparently the thought makes ITGs feel manly.  They get chubbies over the idea of bravely denying the guy his rights.  And the thought he might be tortured gets them giddy.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:55 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Bless your heart for writing this. Regardless of what drove him to these acts, we must still maintain some semblance of morality. To the farker who was upset he was getting medical treatment, physicians are healers, and one of their duties is to "never do harm", no matter who their patient is.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:59 PM

Samwise Gamgee: That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.


Guess what, the legal definition of WMDs on American soil has nothing to do with the international agreed definition when it comes to warfare.

Two bombs filled with nails that kill 3 and injure 170+ while causing widespread destruction sure sound like 'weapons of mass destruction' to me. Just because they didn't kill more doesn't negate the fact.

Might as well say that dirty bombs are not WMDs because they don't kill people immediately, just makes them sick.
 
2013-04-21 11:41:32 PM

incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.


Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?
 
2013-04-21 11:42:12 PM

sirrerun: popesballs: Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due time

No. He got life.


We're just executing him real slooooow.

/sarcasm off
 
2013-04-21 11:42:58 PM

Tatsuma: Samwise Gamgee: That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.

Guess what, the legal definition of WMDs on American soil has nothing to do with the international agreed definition when it comes to warfare.

Two bombs filled with nails that kill 3 and injure 170+ while causing widespread destruction sure sound like 'weapons of mass destruction' to me. Just because they didn't kill more doesn't negate the fact.

Might as well say that dirty bombs are not WMDs because they don't kill people immediately, just makes them sick.


So you are a lawyer! Damn.
 
2013-04-21 11:43:06 PM

Tatsuma: Could he be stripped of his citizenship? After all, he's only been a citizen since September 11, 2012.

If they prove that he and his brothers had been planning this beforehand, could they say that he lied when he took the oath, and therefore strip it from him?


Even if he IS stripped of his citizenship, he can still be put on trial.

Ramzi Yousef-Captured in Pakistan, convicted for role in Bojinka plot in 1996, convicted for role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence.

Wali Khan Amin Shah-Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Abdul Hakim Ali Hashim Murad - Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Eyad Ismoil - Captured in Amman, extradited to US, convicted of role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Khalfan Khamis Mohamed-Captured in Cape Town, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mahmud Abouhalima-Captured in Egypt, convicted of 1993 WTC bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali-Convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Odeh-Captured in Karachi, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed A. Salameh-Convicted of involvement in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Ali Hassan Al-Moayad-Captured in Germany, convicted of federal crimes related to funding Hamas, sent to ADX Florence


Apparently, Colorado hasn't disappeared in a geyser of radioactive vapor from all the pure EVIL concentrated there...
 
2013-04-21 11:43:30 PM

BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.

Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.

Yes, that is correct, criminal and civil courts are very different. Civi (no L) does not mean civil (has an L), though - civi (no L) is slang for civilian. So a "civi court" (no L) means either state or federal criminal court.


And that was the point I was trying to make here but got chastised for it. Whatever. This is like Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average and every farker is an expert at everything.

But it is in the details sometimes. Sometimes it pays to argue a point to maybe, just maybe, educate someone. Doesn't work much here for many but I admit many have taught me things in various threads. Others are facepalm.jpg.

But I do enjoy it sometimes just for its... fill in your own description. ;)
 
2013-04-21 11:43:45 PM

torquestripe: Reliable sources say he ran over his brother while the police were handcuffing said  brother. Yeah, it's five.


But the brother may have already been doomed.  He was pretty full of holes already.

Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.
 
2013-04-21 11:44:41 PM

Warlordtrooper: I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state. McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level. But this incident was purely done inside a single state.


Lots of crimes are Federal. Bank robbers and counterfeiters are tried in Federal court for example.

Here is a list somebody provided earlier in the thread - 48 crimes that can get you executed by the Feds:
Federal Laws Providing for the Death Penalty
 
2013-04-21 11:45:19 PM

torquestripe: So you are a lawyer! Damn.


Law degree comes with the Bar Mitzvah commemorative kippah

hubiestubert: Even if he IS stripped of his citizenship, he can still be put on trial.


Oh yeah no doubt about it, I just meant in a general sense. I imagine that stripping him of his citizenship (and a case could easily be made for it) would make things even easier for the federal government.

Though, with the Democrats in power and the immigration reform bill they want to pass, I doubt they'll go that route.
 
2013-04-21 11:46:42 PM

saturn badger: stoli n coke: No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.

Not actually true.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest


Jesus Christ.  Again?!  NOBODY knows at this point if they've read him his rights or not.  They're saying he's responding to questioning right now.  That could mean questions like "are you Dzhokhar Tsarvaev."  "Do you know where you are?"  "Do you know why you're here?"

The Public Safety Exception to Miranda is there to prevent the imminent danger that a person just arrested might have information of.  For instance, if he'd been stopped right after the bomb went off, asking him if there was another bomb and where it was and him answering would fall under the PSE.  It is NOT a prong by which they can ask questions, at all phases of the investigation, and they all fall under that exception.  It is a very narrowly defined principle. It's also not like they say some magic words and the statements are automatically admissible.  A judge still rules whether or not those statements made will be admissible.

If he's been in the hospital for several days, that exception WILL NOT APPLY.  Before he is interviewed, he WILL be read Miranda.

The whole "we're not going to Mirandize him right now" came from ONE official, while the suspect was en-route to the hospital, who didn't know his medical condition, and was speaking in very general terms when asked about whether or not there were others as part of the plot/bombing.  The official was saying that they'd ask him questions about that.  Then when asked about Miranda, he made a statement about the PSE.  Now all these farking idiots on the TV are debating the topic like it's some hot button issue.  It's not.

He'll be read his rights, period.
 
2013-04-21 11:46:46 PM

itazurakko: But the brother may have already been doomed. He was pretty full of holes already.

Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.


Irrelevant.

Imagine that a guy cuts another guy's femoral artery. Another guy comes and shoots him in the head. Do you really think the second guy will not be prosecuted for murder if he says 'Well, officer, he was going to die for sure anyway!'
 
2013-04-21 11:47:11 PM

incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.


Federal prisons are not medieval shiatholes like state prisons.
 
2013-04-21 11:47:25 PM

Ranger Rover: popesballs: Agree 100%. Any time you violate or propose to violate the rights of another citizen, you are creating a rod for your own back.

Never in my life heard this phrase used before, but agree one hundred percent with the sentiment.


It's from the great orator of our day: Christopher Hitchens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyoOfRog1EM">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=jyoOfRog1EM

Before him? I'm pretty certain the "creating a rod for your own back" phrase originally comes from one of the founding fathers. Maybe Jefferson, Madison, or Paine? I'd start there if I was wanting to know the real origin of it.
 
2013-04-21 11:48:39 PM
If it was Charades, I'd laugh. As the cops try to figure out his gestures.

"Okay, first word."


www.clker.com
 "Grip. Grab..............Grope............................strangle........... .......G! It's G!"

"Okay. Second word".

(Dzhokhar points towards his face)

"Nose!.......uhhhhhh......................lips!.........Bullet hole!......................booger!.......................Wait I know. Head. It's HEAD!"

"G! Head!"

"No. Wait. It sounds like "G Head""
 
2013-04-21 11:48:42 PM

MontanaDave: Also, there are civilian courts where both criminal and civil actions are heard. Not sure about military courts and civil procedings, b ut I suppose it's possible.


At the same time? I have not heard of this. I know there are both but they are separate entities.
 
2013-04-21 11:48:43 PM

Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?


Some people get very excited at the thought of brutal anal rape.  Don't ask me why.
 
2013-04-21 11:49:08 PM
Has the Iron sheik provided his assessment of the situation? Made somebody humble?
 
2013-04-21 11:49:24 PM
cameroncrazy1984: You gotta love how some people are like "America is the greatest country in the world!" until it comes to being scared, then they're like "Our laws shouldn't apply when we're afraid!"


i75.photobucket.com

i75.photobucket.com

fark yeah America!
 
2013-04-21 11:50:00 PM
How long before Hollywood makes a movie out of this?
 
2013-04-21 11:50:01 PM

saturn badger: Sometimes it pays to argue a point to maybe, just maybe, educate someone.


You did try, and a basic point it was. The next bit that seems desperately in need of illumination is the scope of population to whom the protections of the Constitution apply. ;-)
 
2013-04-21 11:50:17 PM

Tozmo: Will Sgt Fury interrogate him?


Kevin "in and out" Brennan might be the man for this.
 
2013-04-21 11:50:59 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Thank you for your service, and for your decency.

/Hope it's not as rare out there as it seems sometimes
//Yes, I know Fark isn't always the best place to measure
 
2013-04-21 11:51:04 PM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Thanks for writing that.  Much better then what I was planning to write the idiots that want to destroy our Constitution, laws, and morals to sate their blood lust.
 
2013-04-21 11:51:52 PM
Uh, people, can we chill with the whole 'let's hope he's raped and tortured!' thing?

I mean, I would have been the first one to nod and say 'well done' if he'd been on the receiving end of a buckshot to the groin during the firefight, but now the guy is in custody and well there are rights in this country, and laws, and things that can be done.

Prison rape is not a tool that should ever be cheered for, and torture should never be advocated, especially not against citizens on American soil

So, uh, yeah cut that shiat out please. I understand the sentiment but keep it to yourselves
 
2013-04-21 11:52:13 PM

puffy999: ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.

You know who else wasn't tried?


...Hitler? o_O
 
2013-04-21 11:52:46 PM

Tatsuma: itazurakko: But the brother may have already been doomed. He was pretty full of holes already.

Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.

Irrelevant.

Imagine that a guy cuts another guy's femoral artery. Another guy comes and shoots him in the head. Do you really think the second guy will not be prosecuted for murder if he says 'Well, officer, he was going to die for sure anyway!'


Reminds me of the joke about the 9-1-1 call.

"I think my buddy's dead!"
"Well, go make sure!"
distant gunshot
"Ok, I'm sure!"
 
2013-04-21 11:52:59 PM

incrdbil: Here a potential completely under the table plea deal: Death penaly, or Death penalty. Cooperate, and he gets the Death Penalty..at a Supermax, where he will be protected and get good treatment through years and years of appeals.  Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.


Don't be stupid. The guy is going to the supermax regardless because he is a terrorist. Because of the risk of an attempted escape and the influence he can have on other prisoners that is automatic.
 
2013-04-21 11:53:43 PM

Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?




That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat. I want him to get the death penalty, but I also want to get any information from him if there was any support or assistace from others involved in this case. So giving him a choice of living conditions until his sentence is carried out could be one method to get to that goal.
 
2013-04-21 11:55:08 PM

incrdbil: That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat. I want him to get the death penalty, but I also want to get any information from him if there was any support or assistace from others involved in this case. So giving him a choice of living conditions until his sentence is carried out could be one method to get to that goal.


Do you not think that having him spend the rest of his life 23 hours a day in a cell with only a view toward the sky, no one to talk to (and unable to in the first place) and nothing to do for the next 70 years at least much worse than just giving him the death penalty?
 
2013-04-21 11:55:28 PM

Tatsuma: Imagine that a guy cuts another guy's femoral artery. Another guy comes and shoots him in the head. Do you really think the second guy will not be prosecuted for murder if he says 'Well, officer, he was going to die for sure anyway!'


They're doing an autopsy, and as of yet no charges have been decided on anyway.

But if you shoot a dead guy (proven dead at time of shooting) then no it's not murder. This guy has so many wounds though they probably can't even tell.  Also it's not as if him killing his accomplice is really going to make any difference.  The two of them resulted in the death of 4 uninvolved people, is the number I was interested in.
 
2013-04-21 11:55:33 PM
If he is tried in federal court and convicted with a death sentence, can he be hanged or must he be given the i.v. death sentence?  In the military I believe it is still hanging but I do not know about regular federal courts.
 
2013-04-21 11:55:34 PM
If you are a proud American you should be very much demanding that this person is placed on public trial and treated exactly according to the law, that you can all see him held to account for what he did.

Anything else IS un-american, if that term has any meaning at all. You are supposed to be BETTER than these guys.
 
2013-04-21 11:57:01 PM

incrdbil: Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?

That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat.


Wait, I thought he was "white hat"?
 
2013-04-21 11:57:19 PM
i236.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-21 11:59:08 PM

itazurakko: They're doing an autopsy, and as of yet no charges have been decided on anyway.

But if you shoot a dead guy (proven dead at time of shooting) then no it's not murder. This guy has so many wounds though they probably can't even tell. Also it's not as if him killing his accomplice is really going to make any difference. The two of them resulted in the death of 4 uninvolved people, is the number I was interested in.


He was not dead. He was struggling and he was being subdued by officers who were trying to handcuff him. He was still alive in the ambulance and was declared dead later in the hospital. Your analogy just fails to be remotely comparable.

And well there's the added psychological torture of being charged with, and condemned for, the death of his own brother.

The guy saw Martin just standing there, and he put down the bag. He stayed to survey the damages and was smiling. He tweeted mocking things about the victims, and went to the gym and a party the next day. He won't care being charged for those crimes. The murder of his brother, on the other hand? That could very well shake him.

Especially if they force him to go through forensic experts and picture of his dead brother and explanations to how he killed him in painfully intricate details.
 
2013-04-21 11:59:16 PM

Tatsuma: incrdbil: That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat. I want him to get the death penalty, but I also want to get any information from him if there was any support or assistace from others involved in this case. So giving him a choice of living conditions until his sentence is carried out could be one method to get to that goal.

Do you not think that having him spend the rest of his life 23 hours a day in a cell with only a view toward the sky, no one to talk to (and unable to in the first place) and nothing to do for the next 70 years at least much worse than just giving him the death penalty?


Not really.  Inmates on death row who keep lodging appeal after appeal and fighting the sentence seem to discredit the 'death is preferable' argument.
 
2013-04-21 11:59:17 PM

Weaver95: if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.


If?  The FBI has stopped a dozen muslim bomb plots in the past 2 years.  The only thing new about this guy is he succeeded.
 
2013-04-21 11:59:57 PM
If they can prove he joined or was part of any organization that is inimical to the United States prior to or subsequently after he became a citizen, that citizenship can be revoked. At that point some things change as to what they can do.

Excerpt below from the USC and INA regulations.

Various acts occurring after naturalization are, by law, evidence of misrepresentation or suppression at time of naturalization. For example, if a naturalized citizen joins a subversive organization within five years of becoming a citizen and membership in that group would have precluded eligibility for naturalization under the INA, then the joining of the organization is held to be a rebuttable presumption that naturalization was obtained by concealing or misrepresenting how attached to the United States the citizen was when naturalized.
Part of the process for becoming a United States citizen is the taking of an oath
"absolutely and entirely" renouncing any allegiance or fidelity to any other country. United States naturalization, in combination with the oath of absolute allegiance, may result in loss of foreign nationality under the pertinent foreign laws. Furthermore, United States naturalization may be revoked if illegally or fraudulently obtained. Any exercise of foreign citizenship subsequent to United States naturalization may be evidence of misrepresentation in taking the oath of allegiance and thus potential grounds for denaturalization.
 
2013-04-22 12:01:16 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: If? The FBI has stopped a dozen muslim bomb plots in the past 2 years. The only thing new about this guy is he succeeded.


A dozen? Try about 30-40 at this point, easily.
 
2013-04-22 12:01:21 AM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: saturn badger: stoli n coke: No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.

Not actually true.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest

Jesus Christ.  Again?!  NOBODY knows at this point if they've read him his rights or not.  They're saying he's responding to questioning right now.  That could mean questions like "are you Dzhokhar Tsarvaev."  "Do you know where you are?"  "Do you know why you're here?"

The Public Safety Exception to Miranda is there to prevent the imminent danger that a person just arrested might have information of.  For instance, if he'd been stopped right after the bomb went off, asking him if there was another bomb and where it was and him answering would fall under the PSE.  It is NOT a prong by which they can ask questions, at all phases of the investigation, and they all fall under that exception.  It is a very narrowly defined principle. It's also not like they say some magic words and the statements are automatically admissible.  A judge still rules whether or not those statements made will be admissible.

If he's been in the hospital for several days, that exception WILL NOT APPLY.  Before he is interviewed, he WILL be read Miranda.

The whole "we're not going to Mirandize him right now" came from ONE official, while the suspect was en-route to the hospital, who didn't know his medical condition, and was speaking in very general terms when asked about whether or not there were others as part of the plot/bombing.  The official was saying that they'd ask him questions about that.  Then when asked about Miranda, he made a statement about the PSE.  Now all these farking idiots on the TV are debating t ...


Not sure why you are so upset. I was merely correcting the fact his statements can be used in a court of law. It doesn't matter if he has been read his rights or not. I was clarifying that if not they can still be used against him.

Lighten up, dude, and read what was actually being said. Apparently you missed the point of the post.
 
2013-04-22 12:02:36 AM

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


Oh I hope. I really hope
 
2013-04-22 12:04:18 AM

Lionel Mandrake: Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?

Some people get very excited at the thought of brutal anal rape.  Don't ask me why.


Little man syndrome? Hey! That could be it.
 
2013-04-22 12:06:14 AM

rufus-t-firefly: The Stealth Hippopotamus: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.

That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.


Not only that, but this group also is the loudest to proclaim moral superiority and godliness.

Morals and values only count when you do them when the choice is hard.  It is easy when you have a $1,000 dollars in the bank and a steady income to not steal needed items.  WHen you are dead broke, with hungry kids and no prospects, it because harder to resist that temptation to go against the values and morals you trumpet.

Just like in this case.  I want justice.  I want revenge.  But that is tempered with the fact that I value what I was taught as to what makes us different.  We are not supposed to torture people or punish them without due process.  I understand that terrible nature of what this person seems to have done.  But if don't stick to our values or morals when it is hardest for us to do so, those values and morals have no meaning.

Let the process work.  Treat this guy with the legal deference we all would want should we be accused of a crime. Because if we can do it when it is hardest for us to do so, then we really do set the example and we do become the city on the hill that some have claimed us to be.
 
2013-04-22 12:07:13 AM
I still think it was someone in the tea party.
 
2013-04-22 12:08:04 AM

ArcadianRefugee: incrdbil: Tatsuma: incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.

Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?

That why I said under the table deal. off the record. Yaah, evil and not very white hat.

Wait, I thought he was "white hat"?


Well done sir.
 
2013-04-22 12:08:10 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: If? The FBI has stopped a dozen muslim bomb plots in the past 2 years. The only thing new about this guy is he succeeded.

A dozen? Try about 30-40 at this point, easily.


Yes, it's more than a dozen.  I didn't feel like counting.  Didn't seem like 40 though.  Many of the Muslims caught by the FBI have been other terrorist activities (other than explosives) involving shooting, or simply funneling to known terrorist groups overseas.
 
2013-04-22 12:10:02 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Yes, it's more than a dozen. I didn't feel like counting. Didn't seem like 40 though. Many of the Muslims caught by the FBI have been other terrorist activities (other than explosives) involving shooting, or simply funneling to known terrorist groups overseas.


My bad, it said 'past 2 years' and I did not see that. I meant since 9/11
 
2013-04-22 12:11:25 AM
If they have some other means of getting his cooperation to get information, I hope they use it.  I just would hate to see a deal that spares him his life.  He has no reason to cooperate really, other than avoiding the death penalty. He knows he'll never be free again.
 
2013-04-22 12:12:11 AM
Tell him we're going to execute him and then bury him upside down with his head in a bucket of menstrual waste for all eternity.  Wouldn't accomplish anything, but it might be fun to see his reaction..
 
2013-04-22 12:12:49 AM

Tatsuma: He was not dead. He was struggling and he was being subdued by officers who were trying to handcuff him. He was still alive in the ambulance and was declared dead later in the hospital. Your analogy just fails to be remotely comparable.


It actually matters what specific injuries did the fatal blow if you're trying to solve who killed a person.  Happens in crime investigations all the time.  In this case, probably not many people care who actually ended up killing the older brother. He was doomed either way. You might say his own actions brought it on.

Here, what matters is that the two people did a spree that killed four unrelated people.  One of the two then died during.  I had thought someone was claiming five unrelated people, but no, turns it out was in fact four.  Those four are more than enough for this guy to never see freedom.

Yes, they bombed people and didn't care.  They're mass murderers. It happens.  I mean, it was only back in December that a guy shot 20 first graders at school, right?

I don't think the younger brother is going to consider himself responsible for older brother's death anyway, even with the running over. The guy was doomed, and this way avoided prison.  Little brother apparently tried to kill himself too (but failed), from his POV probably older brother is lucky. But who knows.
 
2013-04-22 12:13:05 AM
Ax him if he knows anything about the fertilizer blast in Texas. It was Wednesday. He had time. Oh, yeah.
 
2013-04-22 12:13:30 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: Yes, it's more than a dozen. I didn't feel like counting. Didn't seem like 40 though. Many of the Muslims caught by the FBI have been other terrorist activities (other than explosives) involving shooting, or simply funneling to known terrorist groups overseas.

My bad, it said 'past 2 years' and I did not see that. I meant since 9/11


You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all.  It's just too depressing.  Here's a list covering 2009-2012.    http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef
 
2013-04-22 12:15:32 AM

Warlordtrooper: I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state.  McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level.  But this incident was purely done inside a single state.


Not for bombs.  Check out Section I, although Section E also has restrictions for intrastate use or manufacture of explosives.

The feds can still nab you for alcohol distillery as well, even if you don't transport it outside of your state.
 
2013-04-22 12:16:11 AM

DoctorCal: saturn badger: Sometimes it pays to argue a point to maybe, just maybe, educate someone.

You did try, and a basic point it was. The next bit that seems desperately in need of illumination is the scope of population to whom the protections of the Constitution apply. ;-)


Not sure I want to tackle that one. Seems like a lost cause. Lots of derp here that want to hang him without due process.

They will be very careful in this one. I could not be on the jury because I think he is guilty and given the taint of the media coverage I'm not sure they can find an impartial jury. How they are going to find a jury is beyond me. And I am 3k miles away.
 

So this is indeed a problem. Where can you move the trial to do it as a constitutional right to a fair trial?

That is a tough one.
 
2013-04-22 12:16:20 AM

jaytkay: Lsherm: jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?

They shot him because shots were fired from the boat.  After reading some articles today, it appears he shot himself, but police probably thought he was shooting at them.

No, I asked how the MIT cop came across them, and why did they shoot the MIT cop?

Someone suggested the cop was at the 7-11 but I looked and he was shot elsewhere. MAP


The 7-eleven (7-11) robbery had nothing to do with the suspects, but news sources confused it and thought the security stills of them were from that robbery. They were actually from a gas station the suspects stopped at over an hour later. I guess it's possible the MIT cop was the officer who responded to the 7-Eleven robbery and that's where the confusion stems from, but I haven't read that.

It appears the MIT cop was just killed for no reason, or for the same reason they killed marathon spectators. They just walked up to him and killed him. Seems dumb if you're not trying to get caught, so maybe they thought he recognized them (source doesn't say). I dunno why they didn't kill the owner of the car they stole, unless they wanted to go to more ATMs with him. They were caught by police tracking the guys cell phone (in the car) after he escaped and reported them. I imagine we'll know more, and the story will be changed/corrected in the coming days.

Source
 
2013-04-22 12:17:31 AM

Lsherm: Warlordtrooper: I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state.  McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level.  But this incident was purely done inside a single state.

Not for bombs.  Check out Section I, although Section E also has restrictions for intrastate use or manufacture of explosives.

The feds can still nab you for alcohol distillery as well, even if you don't transport it outside of your state.


Sorry, Section J and K are more relevant.  particularly section K:   5.Bombpublic places, § 2332f
 
2013-04-22 12:17:31 AM

ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


Herbert Hans Haupt was a US citizen who committed a crime within the United States, was caught in the United States and subjected to a Military tribunal.  The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that this was OK and he was subsequently executed.  I'm not saying that the facts and circumstances of this case merit him being eligible for enemy combatant treatment (only the justice department knows for sure), but you cannot summarily state that he would get a criminal trial just because he is a US citizen.
 
2013-04-22 12:19:20 AM

gaspode: If you are a proud American you should be very much demanding that this person is placed on public trial and treated exactly according to the law, that you can all see him held to account for what he did.

Anything else IS un-american, if that term has any meaning at all. You are supposed to be BETTER than these guys.


not to quibble here, but it's not about being 'better' or 'more American' than anyone else, it's about following our system. Hell, it's about recognizing we have a system to deal with anyone accused of a crime.

this guy hasn't been found guilty of anything. he's been caught because he was a suspect. let's let the system work the way its designed. and instead of making it a pretense of Miranda, let's actually give him Miranda. Instead of focusing solely on 'miranda' which is really only about your right to counsel, let's give him legal representation. And if the evidence isn't conclusive, let's let him go.

the full weight of the federal and state governments are crashing down on this guy, so the public doesn't need to pile on and salivate over his potential death penalty. we should respect his rights because he is a citizen.
 
2013-04-22 12:20:50 AM

Lionel Mandrake: JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.

So the big, bad "conservatives" can jerk off to their torture porn.  It makes them feel tough, manly, and not the type to put up with anybody's shiat!!  *SNORT*

Or maybe they just have no faith in that Constitution they're always claiming to care about.


Who controls the justice department again?

I just got trolled didn't I?
 
2013-04-22 12:21:02 AM
Maybe I'm alone, but I WANT there to be a trial.
I want to know why these two did what they did.
I want to hear it directly from him.
And I want him to have full due process.
And, assuming the jury comes back with guilty, I want him to be tossed down the same hole we tossed Charles Manson down. No hope of getting out.
 
2013-04-22 12:21:43 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef


... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.
 
2013-04-22 12:22:05 AM

Tatsuma: Do you not think that having him spend the rest of his life 23 hours a day in a cell with only a view toward the sky, no one to talk to (and unable to in the first place) and nothing to do for the next 70 years at least much worse than just giving him the death penalty?


I toured Alcatraz. The thought of being in solitary confinement while listening to the new years parties in the city would be kinda like torture.
 
2013-04-22 12:22:21 AM

SilentStrider: I want to hear it directly from him.


... I've got some bad news for you
 
2013-04-22 12:23:29 AM

DoctorCal: Reminds me of the joke about the 9-1-1 call.

"I think my buddy's dead!"
"Well, go make sure!"
distant gunshot
"Ok, I'm sure!"


Max! They got Max!

/probably not obscure
 
2013-04-22 12:24:03 AM
And it's not just guys sitting in their bedrooms saying 'Wouldn't it be awesome if Americans just died? LOL'

Those were people pressing buttons thinking that they were about to kill many civilians like those two brothers did.
 
2013-04-22 12:24:43 AM

StopLurkListen: Naturalized United States citizens can have their citizenship revoked.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 235x165]


www.hayspost.com
 
2013-04-22 12:25:31 AM

phojo1946: If he is tried in federal court and convicted with a death sentence, can he be hanged or must he be given the i.v. death sentence?  In the military I believe it is still hanging but I do not know about regular federal courts.


Many people die on death row of old age. It is not a swift deal.
 
2013-04-22 12:25:51 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


Yep.  It kinda makes me wonder what planet people are living on when they scream and shout about anyone suggesting a particular plot might be Muslims or foreigners.  Apparently they simply aren't aware of reality.

On the other hand, it does give one a good feeling about just how effective the FBI is.  They get a bad rap because people only hear about the the few they don't stop, like this one.
 
2013-04-22 12:26:38 AM

DrPainMD: Weaver95: we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.

Just as soon as we can bring this guy back to life so we can hire him to do the job. After all, he taught the CIA everything it knows.

[www.bitsofnews.com image 296x472]


bah.

this guy's local:

t1.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-22 12:27:20 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


It may be more scary that they've stopped all of them. Either they're handing out thousands of wiretapping/tracking warrants or people are being tracked without warrants. Or do they even need warrants to tap Muslims' phones and internet, and track their cars nowadays?
 
2013-04-22 12:28:09 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


Welcome to the disturbing world we live in. It's not a nice place all the time. But it is better to acknowledge the reality than hide from numbers that refuse to be politically correct.
 
2013-04-22 12:28:27 AM
Actually, everyone should be sad for these guys. They're so weak-minded that they either (1) got used by someone else, or (2) were so dumb that they didn't have a plan to get away, or (3) both.

The problem now is that, after knowing what we know about these guys, it's more likely that this was an operational test. That's sort of unfortunate.
 
2013-04-22 12:31:01 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: On the other hand, it does give one a good feeling about just how effective the FBI is.


The FBI has been pretty effective running "close to entrapment" investigations for the past 10 years.  Once they get on your trail, they'll orchestrate an "attack" you can take part in and wait for you to hang yourself.

There have been many complaints about whether or not an attack would actually be carried out without the FBI's involvement, but it seems to work pretty well at sussing out people who mean to do harm.
 
2013-04-22 12:31:11 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Yep. It kinda makes me wonder what planet people are living on when they scream and shout about anyone suggesting a particular plot might be Muslims or foreigners. Apparently they simply aren't aware of reality.


And the saddest thing is that still, the overwhelming (we're talking 99% of Muslims) in  America are appalled by these things. Probably 1% or less would be favorable to these, and even a smaller percentage would be ready to take action. Yet that leaves us with thousand potential terrorists. Which leads us to:

On the other hand, it does give one a good feeling about just how effective the FBI is. They get a bad rap because people only hear about the the few they don't stop, like this one.

thank G-d for that. Not only for all the lives that were saved, but also for the fact that if even 10% of these plots had succeeded, you could bet that life for Muslims in America would actually take a turn for the negative.

Again, I really want to just bury those numbers and pretend they don't exist.
 
2013-04-22 12:32:16 AM

garkola: Actually, everyone should be sad for these guys. They're so weak-minded that they either (1) got used by someone else, or (2) were so dumb that they didn't have a plan to get away, or (3) both.


I think you really don't get Islamic terrorism if you think that 'plans to get away with it' plays any part in the decision.
 
2013-04-22 12:35:38 AM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.


So, someone works in a carpentry shop for a month building a cabinet. I could either take it by force. Or I could pay them for their effort. The law says I should pay them for it, to compensate them for their toil. Someone knits and sells a sweater. Law says I can't just take it, I have to compensate them for their time and effort and expense. Why? Because it's just. Because it evens the score.

So, Dzhokhar. He blew the limbs off a lot of adults. And some children. Embedded shrapnel in others. He should pay some kind of price for that right? He had his fun, but those people's pain is not free. So should he pay any price at all? Why?

My answer is yes. He should pay a price commensurate to the pain he inflicted. That's why I'd like to see him suffer.

Some call it "enlightenment" to not punish criminals. Or to give them slaps on the wrist relative to their crimes. I don't call that enlightenment. I call it decadence and societal decay.
 
2013-04-22 12:36:25 AM

gaspode: If you are a proud American you should be very much demanding that this person is placed on public trial and treated exactly according to the law, that you can all see him held to account for what he did.

Anything else IS un-american, if that term has any meaning at all. You are supposed to be BETTER than these guys.


Truth.  Due Process must take place with even the worst criminals, or we are no better than anyone else.
 
2013-04-22 12:36:38 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: You might have been close anyway, but like I said, I didn't count them all. It's just too depressing. Here's a list covering 2009-2012. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

... holy fark.

If those numbers are a reliable indicator for what usually happens, you could extrapolate that anywhere between 300 and 500 different cases involving terrorism were stopped since 9/11, leading to the arrest of anywhere between 500-2000 Muslims.

... I kind of want to just hide these numbers and pretend they don't exist in order to not give bigots any more ammo. I mean, holy fark.


Per capita, few Mulsims are terrorists.

The overwhelming majority of terrorists are Muslims.

It's a cultural thing.
 
2013-04-22 12:42:27 AM

Tatsuma: I think you really don't get Islamic terrorism if you think that 'plans to get away with it' plays any part in the decision.


The Boston Marathon bombings were only Islamic terrorism if saying so can somehow be used to support Obama.

/otherwise it was right-wing teabaggers
//seriously, Chris Matthews can go from talking about the Islamic connection, to denying it, to accusing Scott Walker of having a hand in the whole plot, in the same sentence
 
2013-04-22 12:42:51 AM

doglover: The overwhelming majority of terrorists are Muslims.


Except when Reagan is arming and funding them. Then they're freedom fighters, right?
 
2013-04-22 12:43:39 AM

JungleBoogie: Some call it "enlightenment" to not punish criminals. Or to give them slaps on the wrist relative to their crimes. I don't call that enlightenment. I call it decadence and societal decay.


Yes, you are right.

But to willfully torture and inflict pain as revenge? You might call that justice, I call that barbarism.
 
2013-04-22 12:50:39 AM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


25.media.tumblr.com

You have said it better than I've been trying to.  We are supposed to be better than "them".
Unfortuantely in the past 12 years there has been a group of people who have been trying to destroy this country. They, however are not "them", but they aren't Us either. We have a chance to take our country back from those who really are trying to wreck it. I hope we don't let this opportunity be squandered.
 
2013-04-22 12:52:55 AM

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


Heard one of our congresscritters on the radio earlier who said, "He will be found guilty no matter what" in response to the questions about his Miranda rights.  While I have no doubt that statement is likely true, it does give me the chills.
 
2013-04-22 12:53:29 AM

Tatsuma: But to willfully torture and inflict pain as revenge? You might call that justice, I call that barbarism.


Same here. Torture should only be used when there is important information that needs to be extracted from those unwilling to surrender it. Using it for revenge is worse than useless, at least for a democratic society.

/not that a democratic society is exactly the goal of the current US leadership
//a "controllable" society, yes, maybe one that can be made as free as possible while retaining absolute control over any dissent
 
2013-04-22 12:53:56 AM
So Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty. I support the death penalty, and would hope that this fellow is wrung of information then executed.

On the other hand, part of me hopes that he is tried under Massachusetts law and not executed. So the citizens of Massachusetts, and the country, can see what the cost of repealing the death penalty really is. People, if they were brave enough, saw the gruesome carnage in detail. Then the citizens of Massachusetts can watch themselves paying for this guy to get 3 hots and a cot for the rest of his days, after seeing what he did.
 
2013-04-22 12:57:57 AM

ZeroCorpse: My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.


Please do not give the jackass President or Congress any more ideas.......
 
2013-04-22 12:59:17 AM

awalkingecho: cretinbob: You realize the nationality of his doctor has nothing to do with anything, unless you are an overt racist, right?

And openly Jewish; if it wasn't that article there was another where the doctor was at-length questioned as to whether or not faith was affecting, consciously or unconsciously the care he was receiving. It was a point of interest; enough so that a news source actually made an article centered around it, so fark me for sharing it.

Cats and dogs living together.

Welcometofark.jpg


I wasn't singling you out, I was just making an observation.

People need to stop getting hung up on that kind of shiat. Racism is learned and it's hard to break. Self awareness is the key.

Everyone's a bigot
 
2013-04-22 01:01:33 AM
The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
'T is mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway,
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's,
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That in the course of justice none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy.

-- "The Merchant of Venice", Act 4 scene 1
 
2013-04-22 01:01:35 AM

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.


I'm delirious with fever and stoned out on cough syrup, and even still I recognize the strength of your arguments.

Honestly, you should write a book.
 
2013-04-22 01:03:59 AM

Tatterdemalian: Tatsuma: But to willfully torture and inflict pain as revenge? You might call that justice, I call that barbarism.

Same here. Torture should only be used when there is important information that needs to be extracted from those unwilling to surrender it. Using it for revenge is worse than useless, at least for a democratic society.

/not that a democratic society is exactly the goal of the current US leadership
//a "controllable" society, yes, maybe one that can be made as free as possible while retaining absolute control over any dissent


Torture should never be used.  It has never and still does not work.  On the other hand, it gives a great deal of ammo to your opponents.
 
2013-04-22 01:05:43 AM

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.


I hate to break it to you, but the precedent was probably established sometime in the mid to late 1770's.
 
2013-04-22 01:07:34 AM

LookForTheArrow: can you really stop someone from killing themselves (without tortuous methods like 24x7 strap down)? Cant you just punch yourself in the throat, or something?

/macabe.. but i thought i'd ask.


Due to your self-preservation instincts, it is extremely hard to kill yourself without mechanical/chemical/etc assistance.

The best you can try is snapping your neck or crushing your skull by carefully positioning yourself for the maximum velocity allowed by your muscles and the cell's available space.

Hitting yourself won't work (you just cannot hit yourself hard enough to kill yourself, regardless of where you hit.). Holding your breath won't work (almost everyone will crack when their brain starts panicking, the rest will start to breath the moment they pass out.).

I suppose you could try biting through to the veins/arteries in your arms. That would be absolutely excruciating, though.
 
2013-04-22 01:16:24 AM

LavenderWolf: I suppose you could try biting through to the veins/arteries in your arms. That would be absolutely excruciating, though


I would put on a Justin Bieber album.  That makes chewing through your arteries almost preferable.
 
2013-04-22 01:19:24 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: LavenderWolf: I suppose you could try biting through to the veins/arteries in your arms. That would be absolutely excruciating, though

I would put on a Justin Bieber album.  That makes chewing through your arteries almost preferable.



Have you actually listened?

You're a braver man that I, ThrobblefootSpectre.
 
2013-04-22 01:21:03 AM
I don't know much about what actually goes on inside a real trial... but how in the hell would one go about finding "fair" jurors for this?? That's got to be a close-to-impossible task. And as others have mentioned, even if it's the right thing to do under the law, I cannot imagine having to be the guy's lawyer. A lawyer for him might as well just be for formalities at this point. I doubt any lawyer would be able to help him out much, nor even actually want to.

At least the evil [insert swear words of choice here] has been caught and can't hurt anyone any more.

No, I would NOT make a fair juror. At least I'm honest.
 
2013-04-22 01:21:40 AM

FitzShivering: Tatterdemalian: Tatsuma: But to willfully torture and inflict pain as revenge? You might call that justice, I call that barbarism.

Same here. Torture should only be used when there is important information that needs to be extracted from those unwilling to surrender it. Using it for revenge is worse than useless, at least for a democratic society.

/not that a democratic society is exactly the goal of the current US leadership
//a "controllable" society, yes, maybe one that can be made as free as possible while retaining absolute control over any dissent

Torture should never be used.  It has never and still does not work.  On the other hand, it gives a great deal of ammo to your opponents.


"Torture has never been a reliable means of extracting information. It is ultimately self-defeating as a means of control, and so one wonders why it is still practiced. The only possible reason must be... pleasure." -- Capt. Picard, "Star Trek: The Next Generation", "Chain of Command: Part II"
 
2013-04-22 01:26:30 AM

wingnut396: rufus-t-firefly: The Stealth Hippopotamus: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.

That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.

Not only that, but this group also is the loudest to proclaim moral superiority and godliness.

Morals and values only count when you do them when the choice is hard.  It is easy when you have a $1,000 dollars in the bank and a steady income to not steal needed items.  WHen you are dead broke, with hungry kids and no prospects, it because harder to resist that temptation to go against the values and morals you trumpet.

Just like in this case.  I want justice.  I want revenge.  But that is tempered with the fact that I value what I was taught as to what makes us different.  We are not supposed to torture people or punish them without due process.  I understand that terrible nature of what this person seems to have done.  But if don't stick to our values or morals when it is hardest for us to do so, those values and morals have no meaning.

Let the process work.  Treat this guy with the legal deference we all would want should we be accused of a crime. Because if we can do it when it is hardest for us to do so, then we really do set the example and we do become the city on the hill that some have claimed us to be.



We can talk anal rape after all that, right?
 
2013-04-22 01:30:49 AM

wingnut396: Not only that, but this group also is the loudest to proclaim moral superiority and godliness.

Morals and values only count when you do them when the choice is hard.  It is easy when you have a $1,000 dollars in the bank and a steady income to not steal needed items.  WHen you are dead broke, with hungry kids and no prospects, it because harder to resist that temptation to go against the values and morals you trumpet.

Just like in this case.  I want justice.  I want revenge.  But that is tempered with the fact that I value what I was taught as to what makes us different.  We are not supposed to torture people or punish them without due process.  I understand that terrible nature of what this person seems to have done.  But if don't stick to our values or morals when it is hardest for us to do so, those values and morals have no meaning.

Let the process work.  Treat this guy with the legal deference we all would want should we be accused of a crime. Because if we can do it when it is hardest for us to do so, then we really do set the example and we do become the city on the hill that some have claimed us to be.


Truer words have never been spoken.
 
2013-04-22 01:33:46 AM

Tatsuma: ThrobblefootSpectre: Yep. It kinda makes me wonder what planet people are living on when they scream and shout about anyone suggesting a particular plot might be Muslims or foreigners. Apparently they simply aren't aware of reality.

And the saddest thing is that still, the overwhelming (we're talking 99% of Muslims) in  America are appalled by these things. Probably 1% or less would be favorable to these, and even a smaller percentage would be ready to take action. Yet that leaves us with thousand potential terrorists. Which leads us to:

On the other hand, it does give one a good feeling about just how effective the FBI is. They get a bad rap because people only hear about the the few they don't stop, like this one.

thank G-d for that. Not only for all the lives that were saved, but also for the fact that if even 10% of these plots had succeeded, you could bet that life for Muslims in America would actually take a turn for the negative.

Again, I really want to just bury those numbers and pretend they don't exist.


They do exist. Wishing they didnt exist because its 'uncomfortable' is not an option.

This is reality. It is not bigotry. Numbers, facts, studies.

Recent (2009) polls show a disparity of views regarding terrorism, with between 15% and 30% of respondents in most Muslim countries surveyed holding a positive view (see [6] for the complete results) on various related issues. An average of 30% of respondents in Indonesia, Egypt, Pakistan and Morocco held positive views of groups that launch attacks against Americans, while similar numbers held a negative view or a neutral view. With regards specifically to al-Qaeda, in Egypt, 21% of respondents supported their attacks on Americans, while 33% opposed attacks on Americans but supported al-Qaeda's goals and 28% opposed both al-Qaeda's attacks and goals; the remainder held no strong opinion. These numbers were 9%, 19%, and 22% respectively in Indonesia; 16%, 15%, and 22% in Pakistan; and 9%, 31%, and 26% in Morocco. With regards to feelings about the former al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, Muslims tended to show even stronger support. In Egypt, 44% held positive feelings, 25% held mixed feelings, and 17% held negative feelings. These numbers were 14%, 21%, and 26% respectively in Indonesia; 25%, 26%, and 15% for Pakistan; 27%, 26%, and 21% for Morocco; 56%, 22%, and 20% for the Palestinian Territories; 27%, 27%, and 20% for Jordan; 9%, 9%, and 68% for Turkey; and 4%, 6%, and 82% for Azerbaijan. Related to this trend is widespread denial of al-Qaeda's role in such attacks as those of September 11 in the United States. Majorities in Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan, Morocco, the Palestinian Territories, Turkey, and Jordan did not believe that al-Qaeda was behind the attacks, naming the United States government or Israel as more likely culprits.

As for US Muslims..well, I could guess you could call the numbers 'better'

http://pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf

*8% of all American Muslims approve of suicide bombings. The sentiment is strongest among younger Muslims. Only 68% had a somewhat unfavorable view of al Qaeda. 5% of U.S. Muslims support Al Qaeda specifically
Only 40% of American Muslims believe that Arab men attacked the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.
47% of American Muslims consider themselves Muslim first rather than American (!)

Overall younger American born Muslims are more extreme, not less.
 
2013-04-22 01:34:16 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-22 01:37:10 AM

incrdbil: Overall younger American born Muslims are more extreme, not less.


And the more we tell them they are useless piece of shiat monsters who will grow up to rape and kill our daughters, guess what.......
 
2013-04-22 01:42:53 AM

Tatterdemalian: //a "controllable" society, yes, maybe one that can be made as free as possible while retaining absolute control over any dissent


If there's one thing Obama has been successful at, it's controlling dissent.
 
2013-04-22 01:43:46 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: calbert: it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.

The victims of the bombing did. Everyone gets life saving help from the hospital! It's against the law not to!

All you have to do is get though the door and they have to do everything they can to save you.


The emergency room has to treat you, but they are perfectly free to bill you after the treatment takes place.  They can also hire debt collectors and force you into bankruptcy -- or at the least divert a fourth of whatever you earn into their coffers for ever and ever...

Massachusetts does have nearly-universal health care thanks to Romneycare, which gives many of the Boston Marathon victims one less thing to worry about.
 
2013-04-22 01:43:49 AM

FitzShivering:
Torture should never be used.  It has never and still does not work.  On the other hand, it gives a great deal of ammo to your opponents.


Under torture, a person will say anything. Torture will generate answers--but not neccessarily accurate ones.

To get accurate ones, you have to question someone, then fact check their answers, then apply more for false answers. It is hard to set up the conditioning repsonse without the ability to quickly verify answers.

A cold, cost/benefit evauluation of the use of torture, discarding ethics and morality:

Torture is not the most reliable tool; therefore its use should be in line with a recognition of its limitations-and the value of the answers have to be compared against the harm the act of torture inflicts--on those who must issue it, then the pubblic relations harm upon the revelation that torture has been used. this can be mitigated somewhat by disinformation and discrediting the source, but several entities dedicated to human rights will actively seeks to pierce such schemes, leading to a high risk of the exposure of the incidents of torture on released subjects. The quiet, unseen disposal of such subjects may been preferable--butthe potential negative PR if that is discovered is significant as well. So given all of these limitations, torture's value is limited---at best, a desperate tool for the most desperate of situations.
 
2013-04-22 01:46:57 AM

mattharvest: namatad: but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...

Okay, that's just not how that works at all.

Miranda is PURELY about what is admissible at trial, and given that his guilt can be established trivially without any confession (if just for the murder of that cop during his escape if not the bombings) there's no question of him conceivably going free.


For that matter, the evidence is pretty clear that he killed his brother.
 
2013-04-22 01:46:57 AM

BravadoGT: ISO15693: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

for CHARGES?

sure, at least temporarily.  Hey, if they think that's a deal-killer for their moving here, I can respect that.


Well then. I charge you with terrorism. And you cant get due process now, because you aren't a citizen anymore, and don't have any rights like that. You don't need evidence to charge someone, and once you do, they don't have any rights - wow - we can deport anyone we want, at any time!

No, I dont think that is a good idea. I think it should take actual evidence and actual conviction before citizenship is stripped away. Call me crazy.
 
2013-04-22 01:51:33 AM

cretinbob: incrdbil: Overall younger American born Muslims are more extreme, not less.

And the more we tell them they are useless piece of shiat monsters who will grow up to rape and kill our daughters, guess what.......


I see it more as this: older Muslims leave where they are, and know a better situation when they see it, the younger ones grow up, mainly hearing nostalgic stories of 'home' (as most people tend to focus on that) get a nice steady diet of liberal "America is evil opressive racist blah blah blah" indoctrination from their so called 'education' in public school and college--add the internet and get to the extremists sites and there you go.
 
2013-04-22 01:54:08 AM

cretinbob: incrdbil: Overall younger American born Muslims are more extreme, not less.

And the more we tell them they are useless piece of shiat monsters who will grow up to rape and kill our daughters, guess what.......


Well, stop telling them that then.  I never heard anyone else say it.

/christians, otoh, hear that and worse in several fark threads a week
//makes me sad to be a liberal american
 
2013-04-22 01:59:21 AM
This guy isn't going to know much. Hopefully he'll know a little, but the Feds'll get more info from big brother's internet, phone, etc. Little brother will be able to give dates & times, maybe names.

If big brother was the finger, little brother was the fingernail. What the FBI is wondering is "where's the rest of the body?"
 
2013-04-22 02:06:02 AM

saturn badger: HideAndGoFarkYourself: saturn badger: stoli n coke: No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.

Not actually true.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest

Jesus Christ.  Again?!  NOBODY knows at this point if they've read him his rights or not.  They're saying he's responding to questioning right now.  That could mean questions like "are you Dzhokhar Tsarvaev."  "Do you know where you are?"  "Do you know why you're here?"

The Public Safety Exception to Miranda is there to prevent the imminent danger that a person just arrested might have information of.  For instance, if he'd been stopped right after the bomb went off, asking him if there was another bomb and where it was and him answering would fall under the PSE.  It is NOT a prong by which they can ask questions, at all phases of the investigation, and they all fall under that exception.  It is a very narrowly defined principle. It's also not like they say some magic words and the statements are automatically admissible.  A judge still rules whether or not those statements made will be admissible.

If he's been in the hospital for several days, that exception WILL NOT APPLY.  Before he is interviewed, he WILL be read Miranda.

The whole "we're not going to Mirandize him right now" came from ONE official, while the suspect was en-route to the hospital, who didn't know his medical condition, and was speaking in very general terms when asked about whether or not there were others as part of the plot/bombing.  The official was saying that they'd ask him questions about that.  Then when asked about Miranda, he made a statement about the PSE.  Now all these farking idiots o ...


Not likely.  Far too much time has passed for the PSE argument to be successful.  Like I said, the PSE was designed to be used immediately after arrest, when a person has information that, if given, might stop another attack, or save lives.  There has to be an articulable, immediate threat.  That NO additional bombs have gone off in a week signals that there is not really an additional threat.  Any statements he makes, at this point, need to be post miranda.
 
2013-04-22 02:07:28 AM
A lot of confirmation bias in the latter part of this thread.
 
2013-04-22 02:12:46 AM

Cataholic: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Herbert Hans Haupt was a US citizen who committed a crime within the United States, was caught in the United States and subjected to a Military tribunal.  The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that this was OK and he was subsequently executed.  I'm not saying that the facts and circumstances of this case merit him being eligible for enemy combatant treatment (only the justice department knows for sure), but you cannot summarily state that he would get a criminal trial just because he is a US citizen.


Haupt was a dual citizen, German and American.  He was working as a spy, for the Germans, and was recruited by the Germans to carry out Operations Pastorius, during a time when we were at war with the Germans.  Ex parte Quirin would not apply here, unless we were at war with his country, or he was working for a country we were at war with, and was acting on their behalf.
 
2013-04-22 02:15:19 AM

Lsherm: ZAZ: The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

They used a bomb.  That makes it federal.  I suppose they could charge him in both jurisdictions, but I think the feds would take the lead.


Feds get the marathon bombing, all the IEDs thrown from the car, and attempted murder charges for every federal agent in the line of fire.  State gets murder 1 for the MIT cop and attempted murder for everyone else in the neighborhood.  Book it.
 
2013-04-22 02:22:46 AM
"KAYSER SOSE. You'll never catch him."
 
2013-04-22 02:28:59 AM
They should just give him an Etch-A-Sketch.
 
2013-04-22 02:33:15 AM
Oooh, I have some totally unfounded and wild speculation too! Maybe big brother shot little brother and then charged at the police and little br
 
2013-04-22 02:41:30 AM
 
2013-04-22 02:43:53 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Here's something I can't find anywhere else:

When the Tsarnaev brothers needed guns to back up their bombs, of course they had them. And here are the guns the Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev brought:
One M-4 carbine
One .40-caliber handgun
One 9-mm. handgun
Even one BB gun


Bull-shiat.  They had an AR-15. You can't just call something an M4 by putting a collapsible stock on it.  These people piss me off.  They'll do anything to make it sound really scary.
 
2013-04-22 02:48:32 AM

namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA


note:  not reading him his Miranda rights is not an auto mistrial  even under normal circumstances.  it's using anything he says as evidence that would cause the mistrial.  They have more than enough according to the media ti not have to bother with it.
 
2013-04-22 02:56:52 AM

namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA


Read up on Miranda and how it works. You sound ignorant.  Not reading him his rights won't lead to his freedom.
 
2013-04-22 03:02:26 AM
Whoa, wait. Here he is leaving the boat under his own power.

www.gannett-cdn.com

Does he look like someone in serious condition, who cannot speak? WTF?
 
2013-04-22 03:09:20 AM

Robert1966: Whoa, wait. Here he is leaving the boat under his own power.

[www.gannett-cdn.com image 540x406]

Does he look like someone in serious condition, who cannot speak? WTF?


Then you have the photograph of them putting an airway into him.  Just because he can walk, or climb out of a boat, doesn't mean he's uninjured.

I responded to a report of an attempted suicide once, where the suspect had shot himself in the head, with a .25 caliber handgun.  He had pieces of his skull and brain falling out onto the floor of his condo, and he STILL managed to walk to the front door and open it for us.  He then sat down and allowed treatment.  He's still alive, but not 100% mentally capable.

There are countless stories of people experiencing 10-15 gunshots and living, even still fighting on.
 
2013-04-22 03:12:37 AM

Robert1966: Does he look like someone in serious condition, who cannot speak? WTF?


Yes we can totally see that his neck was not in fact shot, therefore he can speak and The Man is just lying to us

Good one.
 
2013-04-22 03:17:53 AM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).


Oh practitioner of the art of war, protector of innocent and wicked alike, upholder of the rights of Man, I name you Bearer of the Emperor's Shield.
 
2013-04-22 03:24:13 AM

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


He should be torn into ITTY BITTY PIECES and BURIED ALIIIIIIIIVE!!
 
2013-04-22 03:25:38 AM

Robert1966: Whoa, wait. Here he is leaving the boat under his own power.

[www.gannett-cdn.com image 540x406]

Does he look like someone in serious condition, who cannot speak? WTF?


No, it's clearly a government conspiracy.  Obama's behind the bpmbing.  With help from the reverse vampires.
 
2013-04-22 03:33:31 AM
Tatsuma:  cactus needles coated with butolin toxic would be considered WMDs

also: rusty nails (tetanus)

My back yard is full of those WMD's

Kom och ta mig, brorsan!
 
2013-04-22 03:54:46 AM

itazurakko: Dougie AXP: A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.

Yes. It's a bomb.  It is not, however, a "weapon of mass destruction."

I've never denied it was a bomb.
This guy did a mass murder with bombs.  That part is pretty much an airtight case I think, if they've got video, not to mention all the various bits of evidence they've collected at the scene.

Then there's all the killing of a policemen, chucking more bombs out of their car, yeah. Plenty of crimes here. There is no way this guy is ever going free.


jarkesypolitical.com

He'll probably jumpstart a future president's political career in his living room, then go onto a lucrative lecture and teaching career.
 
2013-04-22 04:01:12 AM
www.snopes.com


//from my all time favorite thread
 
2013-04-22 04:02:37 AM
Pictures? We don't need no stinking pictures!

Snope, how can I fight for the truth if you don't even let me hotlink?
 
2013-04-22 04:14:34 AM
Did they catch Zooey Deschanel yet?
 
2013-04-22 04:16:05 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: /christians, otoh, hear that and worse in several fark threads a week


No, they don't.
 
2013-04-22 04:25:30 AM
I have a question for him:

assets.sbnation.com

WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION NUMBNUTS???!!1
 
2013-04-22 04:33:08 AM

cretinbob: Xyphoid:


Applause to both of you, and others I'm sure, but I didn't read the whole thread.

Thank you for restoring some of my faith in my fellow Americans.
 
2013-04-22 04:42:59 AM

phrawgh: There are so many victims here. Think of the poor widow. She converted to Islam. We should all chip in and pay for her to relocate to Saudi Arabia so she can enjoy the support of her Muslim brothers and sisters.


Christ, what an asshole.
 
2013-04-22 05:44:43 AM
I don't think the act the brothers did was totally related to religion.  It was more of a selfish act, maybe in part to see what they could get away with because something or someone convinced them they should be.  I have thought this all along.  I have noticed that most of the bombings in in public areas that are instigated by radical Islamist groups involved some sort of self sacrifice and then some group claims responsibility. I could be completely wrong in this way of thinking but this, however, it is what I see reported in the news. I noticed in the Boston Bombings,  the persons involved did neither; it was selfish act of violence.

Regardless, the blame should be focused on the two brothers as a whole. Not those who may share the same faith or race. My anger is in what they did and how they repaid the country and community that took them,helped raise them, and gave them a life that was better than they had in their home country by doing this terrible act. I don't want the death penalty for the surviving brother.  I want him spend the rest of his life in prison with no parole, having to reflect on what he did and sharing his cell with another inmate who will also remind him of it too, every night too. If you get what I mean.
 
2013-04-22 05:49:51 AM

Makh: What's his fark account?


phil
 
2013-04-22 06:11:08 AM

Weaver95: if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.  they know Tsarnaev will crack sooner or later and once he does, the Fed will come down on 'em all like a ton of bricks.


What is it like to live in abject fear at all times? Can't be good for your blood pressure.
 
2013-04-22 06:15:35 AM

ZeroCorpse: My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.


I was thinking along those same lines, but it doesn't sell as well on CNN as 'OMFG!! Muslin turrurist! Sleeper cells!11!!'
 
2013-04-22 07:03:18 AM
I know removing his arms and legs and giving him incurable hiccups is usual, but is it cruel?
 
2013-04-22 07:03:54 AM

nmemkha: I know removing his arms and legs and giving him incurable hiccups is unusual, but is it cruel?

 
2013-04-22 07:25:40 AM

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


yup. downriver in terre haute. you don't come back from there.
 
2013-04-22 07:31:10 AM

ransack.: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

yup. downriver in terre haute. you don't come back from there.


Just avoid the cabbage rolls.
 
2013-04-22 07:42:34 AM
Serious question: How the hell do they find an unbiased jury? Everyone has already pre-judged him, and defense will have a field day with that.
 
2013-04-22 07:55:14 AM

FARK in FL: itazurakko: Dougie AXP: A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.

Yes. It's a bomb.  It is not, however, a "weapon of mass destruction."

I've never denied it was a bomb. This guy did a mass murder with bombs.  That part is pretty much an airtight case I think, if they've got video, not to mention all the various bits of evidence they've collected at the scene.

Then there's all the killing of a policemen, chucking more bombs out of their car, yeah. Plenty of crimes here. There is no way this guy is ever going free.

[jarkesypolitical.com image 720x540]

He'll probably jumpstart a future president's political career in his living room, then go onto a lucrative lecture and teaching career.


You'd think after losing two elections beating Ayer's dead horse, you guys would know better...nobody gives a rat's ass, except the Birther crowd...and you already had them in your corner.
 
2013-04-22 07:56:37 AM

BikerRay: Serious question: How the hell do they find an unbiased jury? Everyone has already pre-judged him, and defense will have a field day with that.


That WILL be tricky.  Change of venue, maybe?

/gonna need someplace without internet or cable coverage...Mars, or the rings of Saturn...
 
2013-04-22 08:10:23 AM

puppetpusher: I don't know much about what actually goes on inside a real trial... but how in the hell would one go about finding "fair" jurors for this?? That's got to be a close-to-impossible task. And as others have mentioned, even if it's the right thing to do under the law, I cannot imagine having to be the guy's lawyer. A lawyer for him might as well just be for formalities at this point. I doubt any lawyer would be able to help him out much, nor even actually want to.

At least the evil [insert swear words of choice here] has been caught and can't hurt anyone any more.

No, I would NOT make a fair juror. At least I'm honest.


I guarantee you'll be able to find at least one defense attorney who'd LOVE the case, just for the publicity...you can't "lose", in that everyone expects your client to go to prison forever, if not get the death penalty...so anything you achieve beyond that would be an epic win.

I'd anticipate some death threats, however, which might temper their enthusiasm.

However, odds are, this kid has no money, so will get a public defender, either state or federal.  Almost all of them (and all the ones I know) are committed to the system, and WILL represent him to the best of their ability.

I'm not a defense attorney myself, I do real estate...but at the end of the day, I'm an officer of the court.

If I'm instructed by a judge to defend this guy, I will...I take my oath seriously.
I don't get to just uphold the parts of the state and federal constitutions that I happen to agree with...it's all or nothing.

(Yes, it's unlikely, but that happened to a colleague some years back, out in Western Mass...they were short of public defenders that day, he was in civil court next door for a motion, the judge required him to defend a felon who needed representation.  Comply, or face contempt of court, and possible disciplinary proceedings.)
 
2013-04-22 08:13:02 AM

LavenderWolf: LookForTheArrow: can you really stop someone from killing themselves (without tortuous methods like 24x7 strap down)? Cant you just punch yourself in the throat, or something?

/macabe.. but i thought i'd ask.

Due to your self-preservation instincts, it is extremely hard to kill yourself without mechanical/chemical/etc assistance.

The best you can try is snapping your neck or crushing your skull by carefully positioning yourself for the maximum velocity allowed by your muscles and the cell's available space.

Hitting yourself won't work (you just cannot hit yourself hard enough to kill yourself, regardless of where you hit.). Holding your breath won't work (almost everyone will crack when their brain starts panicking, the rest will start to breath the moment they pass out.).

I suppose you could try biting through to the veins/arteries in your arms. That would be absolutely excruciating, though.


Gal I used to know killed herself while medicated, on suicide watch, and in full restraints...by swallowing her own bedsheets.
 
2013-04-22 08:16:48 AM

JungleBoogie: So Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty. I support the death penalty, and would hope that this fellow is wrung of information then executed.

On the other hand, part of me hopes that he is tried under Massachusetts law and not executed. So the citizens of Massachusetts, and the country, can see what the cost of repealing the death penalty really is. People, if they were brave enough, saw the gruesome carnage in detail. Then the citizens of Massachusetts can watch themselves paying for this guy to get 3 hots and a cot for the rest of his days, after seeing what he did.


How about that murder case where the DA faked and withheld evidence?
The defendant did 25 years, they JUST discovered the wrongdoing.

(can't find the Fark link, it was a few days back)

You support the death penalty in THOSE cases?
 
2013-04-22 08:20:02 AM

ISO15693: BravadoGT: ISO15693: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

for CHARGES?

sure, at least temporarily.  Hey, if they think that's a deal-killer for their moving here, I can respect that.

Well then. I charge you with terrorism. And you cant get due process now, because you aren't a citizen anymore, and don't have any rights like that. You don't need evidence to charge someone, and once you do, they don't have any rights - wow - we can deport anyone we want, at any time!

No, I dont think that is a good idea. I think it should take actual evidence and actual conviction before citizenship is stripped away. Call me crazy.


I am not a naturalized citizen...
 
2013-04-22 08:20:24 AM

BikerRay: Serious question: How the hell do they find an unbiased jury? Everyone has already pre-judged him, and defense will have a field day with that.


Should be less challenging than the Timothy McVeigh case.
 
2013-04-22 08:27:22 AM
Late to the thread but I'm curious to know more about this from the perspective of the guys wife. How did she not know , assuming she didn't, that this shiat was going down? I can barely sneak a fart past my girlfriend let alone plan a bombing in a big city.

And to those who initially said she was Christian, the news confirmed she had converted to Islam and was wearing a head scarf when she was taken in for questioning. Maybe I'm ignorant, but the idea of converting someone always fascinates me. I respect people of all faiths but I understand religion is a bit nutty from an outsiders view, so having the capability of converting someone into believing what you believe in is quite the task.
 
2013-04-22 08:27:49 AM

PunGent: (Yes, it's unlikely, but that happened to a colleague some years back, out in Western Mass...they were short of public defenders that day, he was in civil court next door for a motion, the judge required him to defend a felon who needed representation. Comply, or face contempt of court, and possible disciplinary proceedings.)


Can't the accused later use that as a basis for appeal later?  "They grabbed some real estate lawyer who knew nothing about the case to defend me against homicide charges--you call that competent representation?"
 
2013-04-22 08:27:56 AM
Oh, almost forgot...the felony murder rule means he can be tried for his brother's death, as well.
 
2013-04-22 08:33:18 AM

dkimball: First thing I thought of...no one else???
[www.chud.com image 425x182]


He can talk!
He can talk!
He can talk!
He can talk!

He can talk!
He can talk!

♫   I CAN SIIIIIINNNNNGGG!!!
 
2013-04-22 08:36:56 AM
is there a jury out there that wouldn't convict him?
 
2013-04-22 08:40:15 AM
FitzShivering:
Heard one of our congresscritters on the radio earlier who said, "He will be found guilty no matter what" in response to the questions about his Miranda rights.  While I have no doubt that statement is likely true, it does give me the chills.

I'm going to hope he meant that there is overwhelming evidence as to his guilt even without any statement he might make, so the Miranda warning is not crucial. If all of his statements are tossed out, he will still be convicted due to all of the other evidence against him.

Maybe that's not what he meant. But I feel better thinking that it is.
 
2013-04-22 08:40:15 AM

SlothB77: is there a jury out there that wouldn't convict him?


I think you could find one in Afghanistan.
 
2013-04-22 08:44:07 AM

pciszek: PunGent: (Yes, it's unlikely, but that happened to a colleague some years back, out in Western Mass...they were short of public defenders that day, he was in civil court next door for a motion, the judge required him to defend a felon who needed representation. Comply, or face contempt of court, and possible disciplinary proceedings.)

Can't the accused later use that as a basis for appeal later?  "They grabbed some real estate lawyer who knew nothing about the case to defend me against homicide charges--you call that competent representation?"


Sure.  But recall...SOME defendant is guaranteed to get a defense lawyer's FIRST case...and that's not an automatic get-out-of-jail free card.  Heck, in Texas, they've had defense attorney's SLEEP THROUGH THE CASE, and upheld the conviction.

On the other hand, in that situation, I'd get him through the arraignment...those are easy, pick NOT guilty...and then yell for help from experienced defense counsel.

If the case was interesting, I'd try to stay on as co-counsel, even unpaid...it's good to learn new things.
 
2013-04-22 08:49:32 AM

sonorangal: I want him spend the rest of his life in prison with no parole,


I kind of want him to have Manson parole. I want him to get his hopes up every couple of years, only to hear, "Mmmm... how 'bout NO." every time.

My revenge fantasies aren't all that violent. But they're mine, and they work for me.
 
2013-04-22 08:54:56 AM

PunGent: BikerRay: Serious question: How the hell do they find an unbiased jury? Everyone has already pre-judged him, and defense will have a field day with that.

That WILL be tricky.  Change of venue, maybe?

/gonna need someplace without internet or cable coverage...Mars, or the rings of Saturn...


West Virginia.
 
2013-04-22 08:56:02 AM
The reason I'm against the death penalty in this instance is that we can only kill him once.
 
2013-04-22 09:02:13 AM
The old Russian system would of gone after all his relatives too. Just to make an example.
 
2013-04-22 09:20:03 AM

Tommy Moo: The brothers' uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, told the Associated Press that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was "used" by his older brother to carry out the bombing. "He's not been understanding anything," Tsarni said. "He's a 19-year-old boy."

I knew this pathetic defense was going to rear its head. He lost any chance at that when he decided to fire an automatic weapon at police officers attempting to apprehend him. Death penalty. I don't give a shiat if he's 19. Death penalty.


I don't agree with it as a defense, but I have to wonder if the younger one was overly influenced by the older brother into doing something he really didn't want to do. Regardless, he should bear the full weight of the law, if he's convicted.
 
2013-04-22 09:24:41 AM

SlothB77: is there a jury out there that wouldn't convict him?


Of course there is. People on a jury are supposed to be impartial and look at all of the evidence, facts and
potential mitigating circumstances before coming to a conclusion. That said, based on what we know so far,
the guy would be convicted after 10 minutes of deliberations.

I have no doubt, BTW, that when this goes to trial, he'll be found guilty.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-04-22 09:27:56 AM
Some Bass Playing Guy:
I don't agree with it as a defense, but I have to wonder if the younger one was overly influenced by the older brother into doing something he really didn't want to do. Regardless, he should bear the full weight of the law, if he's convicted.

That will be the only thing saving from the chair.

The "pre-judged!!1! OMG!" defense isn't going to fly.  He's on video everywhere, he and his brother told the car jacking victim that they were the bombers... etc.  It's all going to be about his brother "mind controlling" him.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-22 09:39:10 AM
The federal weapons of mass destruction (weaponized potato launcher) law applies to anything with even the remotest connection to interstate commerce. Since everything is connected to interstate commerce, the appeals court is left to decide whether a federal conviction seems just under the circumstances. In this case the conviction will be upheld against a jurisdictional challenge. On the other hand, one federal appeals court threw out a federal arson conviction involving a residence. The crime did not strike the judges as important enough for federal courts considering the traditional state role in arson prosecution. They read "interstate commerce" to mean "commercial" despite the lack of any such limitation in the statute.

Cataholic

The Supreme Court has in effect ruled, without explicitly saying so, that the war on terror is not enough of a war to use precedent from WW2.
 
2013-04-22 09:40:28 AM

Kittypie070: Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).


/* Oh practitioner of the art of war, protector of innocent and wicked alike, upholder of the rights of Man, I name you Bearer of the Emperor's Shield. */
gotohell();

 
2013-04-22 09:53:42 AM

Arthur Jumbles: LordJiro: Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!

The naked man was naked because the police made him strip in case he had a bomb on him, like the older brother did.

Yeah, but who is he? How is he connected to the brothers? If a third person is involved that makes it sound more like a terrorist cell.


I really thought it was the guy whose car was hijacked and that the police wanted to make sure he wasn't an accomplice or had been rigged with explosives ot something.

But I can't find anywhere that confirms this -- or provides any explanation for who he was.
 
2013-04-22 09:57:33 AM

d23: Some Bass Playing Guy:
I don't agree with it as a defense, but I have to wonder if the younger one was overly influenced by the older brother into doing something he really didn't want to do. Regardless, he should bear the full weight of the law, if he's convicted.

That will be the only thing saving from the chair.

The "pre-judged!!1! OMG!" defense isn't going to fly.  He's on video everywhere, he and his brother told the car jacking victim that they were the bombers... etc.  It's all going to be about his brother "mind controlling" him.


If the brother's the shiat, you must acquit?
 
2013-04-22 10:09:42 AM
Here's the funny thing about the whole Miranda thing...and why it's f*cking stoopid to be so frightened of reading folks their rights...

Folks keep thinking that "THERE'S NO TIME!" is a valid excuse. In extremis, there are cases, but the time has sort of flown, and a lot of folks who seem to be fired up on this are missing the point.
 
2013-04-22 10:18:32 AM
why can't he talk/sing?
cause he's been playing Tom Sawyer too much??
 
2013-04-22 10:42:26 AM

BikerRay: Serious question: How the hell do they find an unbiased jury? Everyone has already pre-judged him, and defense will have a field day with that.


Sure helped McVeigh... Oh wait.
 
2013-04-22 11:23:27 AM

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Reading this makes me proud to be an American
 
2013-04-22 11:34:02 AM

hubiestubert: Here's the funny thing about the whole Miranda thing...and why it's f*cking stoopid to be so frightened of reading folks their rights...

Folks keep thinking that "THERE'S NO TIME!" is a valid excuse. In extremis, there are cases, but the time has sort of flown, and a lot of folks who seem to be fired up on this are missing the point.


Some people are predisposed to accept certain things as "true", often because their social peers require them to make a "profession of faith" in public. Usually these are harmless rituals - often religious in nature. I've sat in a church and watched a highly admired surgeon, who I know to have OR privileges at NYU Medical Center intone "on the third day, he rose again" - and he knows even better than I do, the physical impossibility of that. But I'd still feel comfortable putting my life in his hands, because I know he was simply upholding a community tradition, not stating his opinion of the actual facts.

Average Farker giving his opinion on admissibility of evidence is like me lecturing the Apollo astronauts on the correct way to make two metal spheres go "clank": amusing and harmless, and only offensive if the speaker actually thinks their opinion is valid or relevant.

That said, I do get a little creeped out - maybe more than a little - by the twits that obsess on the corrective goodness of anal rape. That, unfortunately, is not a harmless myth, People who suggest things like that should not be left alone with children, or, honestly, pretty much anyone.
 
2013-04-22 11:41:32 AM
somedude210:
//apparently, their budget has been cut so much that they can only go to the range for training once a year

Seriously?

They can afford to pay Lieutenants a quarter million a year (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/05/06/p ol ice_pay_can_exceed_250k/) but they can't afford ammo for the range?  Even fancy .40 can't be over a dollar a round.
 
2013-04-22 11:48:37 AM

itazurakko: torquestripe: Reliable sources say he ran over his brother while the police were handcuffing said  brother. Yeah, it's five.

But the brother may have already been doomed.  He was pretty full of holes already.

Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.


Under the felony murder rule, Dzhokhar would have picked up a murder charge for his brother even if he died only from police or self-inflicted wounds.

Do we know for sure if Boston PD killed anyone else?  We've never heard what happened to the guy handcuffed on the Common, the first naked guy, or the old guy who allegedly had a "dead-man" device.  If the cops did shoot another suspect or bystander, that would go on the list too.
 
2013-04-22 12:00:29 PM
Now that the hoopla has ended, maybe it's time to think about something else besides 3 dead in Boston last week. Perhaps you can pretend to be outraged and upset at one of the thousands of other tragedies.
 
2013-04-22 12:01:41 PM

saturn badger: MontanaDave: Also, there are civilian courts where both criminal and civil actions are heard. Not sure about military courts and civil procedings, b ut I suppose it's possible.

At the same time? I have not heard of this. I know there are both but they are separate entities.


Same room, same judge, but different jury. It might be called another court, though. I've come to realize that legal professionals use a different version of the English language than most of us.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-22 12:03:08 PM
fnordfocus

As far as I know Massachusetts does not consider a killing by police during a felony to be murder by the felon. Some other states do. The felony murder rule is not uniform around the country.
 
2013-04-22 12:10:56 PM
Hope the FBI have got some of these at hand

bbsimg.ngfiles.com
 
2013-04-22 12:16:26 PM

doubled99: Now that the hoopla has ended, maybe it's time to think about something else besides 3 dead in Boston last week. Perhaps you can pretend to be outraged and upset at one of the thousands of other tragedies.


Your concern is very important to us. Please hold for the next available rage-fueled rebuttal. In the meantime, we'd like to remind you of a few other places where someone might give a damn.

/your expected answer time is.... whups! Greenlight about a celebrity, gotta go!
 
2013-04-22 12:17:44 PM
JungleBoogie: So Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty. I support the death penalty, and would hope that this fellow is wrung of information then executed.

On the other hand, part of me hopes that he is tried under Massachusetts law and not executed. So the citizens of Massachusetts, and the country, can see what the cost of repealing the death penalty really is. People, if they were brave enough, saw the gruesome carnage in detail. Then the citizens of Massachusetts can watch themselves paying for this guy to get 3 hots and a cot for the rest of his days, after seeing what he did.

PunGent: How about that murder case where the DA faked and withheld evidence?
The defendant did 25 years, they JUST discovered the wrongdoing.

(can't find the Fark link, it was a few days back)

You support the death penalty in THOSE cases?


No that's awful and the parties intentionally doing evil must be punished.

However, your unspoken assumption is that execution is the only way that innocent people are wrongfully killed. That's simply not true. In Maryland for example, 8 prisoners have been killed while incarcerated in the past 16 months. I don't hear anyone calling for outlawing incarceration though.

Maryland just outlawed the death penalty, driven by its governor who is a defense attorney and has presidential ambitions. It is one of the touchy-feeliest states when it comes to violent criminals. However, now, they can't do anything to lifers who murder again.
 
2013-04-22 12:35:49 PM

incrdbil: a nice steady diet of liberal "America is evil opressive racist blah blah blah" indoctrination from their so called 'education' in public school and college


As a person educated in the public school system as well as college, and who doesn't see America as evil, oppressive or racist (Some Americans, of course, but not America), I wish to be among those who tell you go fark yourself.
 
2013-04-22 01:00:33 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: why can't he talk/sing?
cause he's been playing Tom Sawyer too much??


Apparently didn't pay attention to Tom Sawyer enough. Tom Sawyer's mind was not for rent to any god or government. His reserve, a quiet defense. Riding out the day's events.
 
2013-04-22 02:19:23 PM

incrdbil: I see it more as this: older Muslims leave where they are, and know a better situation when they see it, the younger ones grow up, mainly hearing nostalgic stories of 'home' (as most people tend to focus on that) get a nice steady diet of liberal "America is evil opressive racist blah blah blah" indoctrination from their so called 'education' in public school and college--add the internet and get to the extremists sites and there you go.


That too, absolutely.
 
2013-04-22 04:00:29 PM

PunGent: LavenderWolf: LookForTheArrow: can you really stop someone from killing themselves (without tortuous methods like 24x7 strap down)? Cant you just punch yourself in the throat, or something?

/macabe.. but i thought i'd ask.

Due to your self-preservation instincts, it is extremely hard to kill yourself without mechanical/chemical/etc assistance.

The best you can try is snapping your neck or crushing your skull by carefully positioning yourself for the maximum velocity allowed by your muscles and the cell's available space.

Hitting yourself won't work (you