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(USA Today)   Boston Bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is awake and responding to questions via writing   (usatoday.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, Boston, Michael McCaul, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Massachusetts State Police, Boston Police, law enforcement officials  
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18464 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 9:11 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



561 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-04-21 08:40:40 PM  
Stupid Fartbongo should have just wiped the guy out with a drone.  Now he's gonna write literature and recruit new terrorists and we'll all be farked.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 08:45:10 PM  
He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.
 
2013-04-21 08:45:21 PM  
I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?
 
2013-04-21 08:46:00 PM  
it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.
 
2013-04-21 08:46:32 PM  

ambassador_ahab: Stupid Fartbongo should have just wiped the guy out with a drone.  Now he's gonna write literature and recruit new terrorists and we'll all be farked.


Bad news dude.


dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-04-21 08:47:08 PM  

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.
 
2013-04-21 08:47:25 PM  
Well, isn't that just dandy?
 
2013-04-21 08:47:57 PM  
At the very least, it sounds like his self-inflicted wound (along with, I presume, a couple of inflicted ones here or there) will be nagging, painful injuries for years to come.  Just like the people who he hurt.  It's not perfect, but it's a start.
 
2013-04-21 08:48:32 PM  
He just drew a picture of Kevin Spacey.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 08:49:56 PM  
BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).
 
2013-04-21 08:51:36 PM  

calbert: it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.


The victims of the bombing did. Everyone gets life saving help from the hospital! It's against the law not to!

All you have to do is get though the door and they have to do everything they can to save you.
 
2013-04-21 08:51:43 PM  
I don't think Hallmark even makes a card for this occasion.

Get Well Soon ...so we can try you in a court of law and send your blood thirsty little punkass to PMITA prison for the rest of your miserable farked up life!
 
2013-04-21 08:51:49 PM  
i140.photobucket.com

/*ding, ding*
 
2013-04-21 08:52:42 PM  
He's a a stress free kind of guy
 
2013-04-21 08:55:18 PM  

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


It doesn't say whether or not he's being interrogated.  It does say he's "not in any condition to be interrogated."  They might just be asking things like "Do you need any pillows" or whatever.

Then again, they might not be.
 
2013-04-21 08:56:39 PM  
Dear Darla,

I hate your stinking guts. You're the scum between my toes.

Love, Alfalfa.
 
2013-04-21 08:56:59 PM  

ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.
 
2013-04-21 08:58:17 PM  

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.
 
2013-04-21 09:00:33 PM  

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.
 
2013-04-21 09:00:58 PM  

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


It doesn't matter if he confesses.  Or says of does anything for that matter.  He's obviously guilty.  They could convict him if he were in a coma.

His only hope to live (if he wants to) is full cooperation in exchange for life.
 
2013-04-21 09:00:59 PM  
they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.
 
2013-04-21 09:03:33 PM  

Weaver95: we're just gonna strip him of his rights


Maybe.

Weaver95: torture the f*ck outta him


Doubt it, in this particular case.

Weaver95: and then kill him


Maybe.
 
2013-04-21 09:03:41 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.


I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.
 
2013-04-21 09:05:31 PM  

smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net

 
2013-04-21 09:06:28 PM  

SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.


this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 09:07:09 PM  
I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

A politician was blowing his mouth off. They do that sometimes. A military trial would have to be based on the global war on terror and the 2001 authorization for use of military force against terrorists. At this point there isn't any evidence of international terrorism or even domestic terrorism. Terrorism is not the same as killing a lot of people.

I heard an interview with Alan Dershowitz. He said he would flunk anybody in his class who suggested a military tribunal under the circumstances.
 
2013-04-21 09:07:30 PM  

SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.


probably.  not that they aren't already tearing his life apart down to the sub-atomic level and seeing where he went off the rails into loonie toons land...but a nice discussion about motive and how/where he learned all his bomber tricks would help speed things up quite a bit.

if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.  they know Tsarnaev will crack sooner or later and once he does, the Fed will come down on 'em all like a ton of bricks.
 
2013-04-21 09:13:50 PM  

ZAZ: The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


They used a bomb.  That makes it federal.  I suppose they could charge him in both jurisdictions, but I think the feds would take the lead.
 
2013-04-21 09:14:21 PM  

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.


I agree about the rights, but military tribunal...

Do millitary tribunals have to recognize your alleged rank? I could park my car in the highway U-turn lane, wait for a statie to come issue the ticket, declare it a military action and get recognized at the tribunal as Captain Doglover, and viola (or contrabass)! I'm a CO for $300 plus a few points on the license.
 
2013-04-21 09:15:06 PM  

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


What does state court have to do with this?
 
2013-04-21 09:15:15 PM  
FTFA: "He's [just] a 19-year-old boy."

<chapelle>
    How old is 15, anyway??
</chapelle>
 
2013-04-21 09:15:15 PM  
Perhaps they could import that Chinese nut-crusher lady for a couple of weeks.   An eye for an eye, a nut job for a nut job.
 
2013-04-21 09:16:23 PM  
Responding to question, Columbia is interviewing him already?
 
2013-04-21 09:16:46 PM  

namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA


He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.
 
2013-04-21 09:18:12 PM  
Make sure he doesn't use the pen to stab himself to death.
 
2013-04-21 09:18:28 PM  

SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.


Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.
 
2013-04-21 09:19:16 PM  
can you really stop someone from killing themselves (without tortuous methods like 24x7 strap down)? Cant you just punch yourself in the throat, or something?

/macabe.. but i thought i'd ask.
 
2013-04-21 09:19:19 PM  
Do you wish you'd just stuck to smoking weed and playing soldier on Xbox? (Check one)

[ ] Yes
[ ] No
 
2013-04-21 09:19:26 PM  
Shouldn't he be using Twitter or something?
 
2013-04-21 09:19:47 PM  

Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.


I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.
 
2013-04-21 09:20:33 PM  

LookForTheArrow: can you really stop someone from killing themselves (without tortuous methods like 24x7 strap down)? Cant you just punch yourself in the throat, or something?

/macabe.. but i thought i'd ask.


Bite the tongue.
 
2013-04-21 09:20:58 PM  

Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.



Sadly, I think you're right but until it's declared to fall under the NDAA, they have to treat it like any other criminal felony case.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:12 PM  

Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.


True or false, thinking like that scare me. Sure it makes sense in peace time, but when there is REAL confusion about who did what, what sort of prececdent does it establish?

Do it right, that's the american way.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:14 PM  
When I think of brothers indoctrinated to an extremist cause...

sa11bgoesblogging.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-21 09:21:17 PM  
didn't they find more bombs at his apartment?  and don't they have video of him making the drop?
 
2013-04-21 09:21:29 PM  

Altair: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

What does state court have to do with this?


The MIT cop who was killed as well as other charges in the gun battle.  Those are state charges.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:36 PM  

Lindsay Graham: keep him as enemy combatant to interrogate for intelligence purposes; try him in civilian court, can't use info from initial interrogation(s) for civil prosecution

(CNN) Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the suspect in federal custody for the Boston Marathon bombing, should be considered an enemy combatant only for interrogation purposes, not so he can be tried in a military tribunal, Sen. Lindsey Graham said Sunday. "He is not eligible for military commission trial," the Republican senator from South Carolina said on CNN's "State of the Union." Graham argued Tsarnaev should be tried in a civilian trial in federal courts.
Graham was among Republicans Saturday who called for the U.S. government to label Tsarnaev as an enemy combat so authorities could waive his legal rights while they question him for intelligence purposes.
"Most Americans want to find out what he knew, who he associated with, does he know about terrorist organizations within or without the country that are trying to hurt us? Does he know about a future attack?" Graham said on Sunday.
Graham said none of that information could be used against him in civilian court. Anytime Tsarnaev is questioned "about his guilt or innocence," then "he's entitled to his Miranda Rights and a lawyer."

link

Carl Levin: He's not an enemy combatant, don't hold him as one
The Obama administration has said it thinks terrorism suspects arrested inside the United States should be handled exclusively in the criminal justice system. It has indicated no intention to do otherwise in Mr. Tsarnaev's case, but the issue is taking on political currency, underscoring a major divide on national security legal policy.
Senator Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat who is the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a statement that the laws of war did not apply to Mr. Tsarnaev and that there was so far no evidence that he was "part of any organized group, let alone Al Qaeda, the Taliban or one of their affiliates - the only organizations whose members are subject" to detention as a part of war.
"In the absence of such evidence, I know of no legal basis for his detention as an enemy combatant," Mr. Levin said. "To hold the suspect as an enemy combatant under these circumstances would be contrary to our laws and may even jeopardize our efforts to prosecute him for his crimes."

link

 
2013-04-21 09:21:47 PM  

foo monkey: namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA

He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.


And I'll be completely fine by that, as long as the punishment is carried out with the full consent of a jury in an open trial.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:47 PM  
Ask him how he would like to die.
 
2013-04-21 09:21:58 PM  
It was Claus Von Bulow with a vial of insulin.
 
2013-04-21 09:22:21 PM  

namatad: this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...


.What? Do you think he's going to thumb his nose at everyone while tiptoeing through the tulips? He will never have his freedom again even if he does go free. He will be in the crosshairs of every vigilante with a weapon sharper than a butter knife. (And this is Boston where everyone is a vigilante after a few beers.) The kid will never be able to sleep with both eyes closed again. His best bet is to behind the protection of the cops and courts. Outside of jail is a guaranteed death sentence for him.
 
2013-04-21 09:22:24 PM  

FriarReb98: At the very least, it sounds like his self-inflicted wound (along with, I presume, a couple of inflicted ones here or there) will be nagging, painful injuries for years to come.  Just like the people who he hurt.  It's not perfect, but it's a start.


A lot of people have suffered, radicalization is largely made possible by heavy handed international policy and he's basically a child but no, keep advocating for revenge instead of justice. I'm sure that will help.
 
2013-04-21 09:22:38 PM  
If there's any ties to foreign terrorists that info probably died with the older bro.
 
2013-04-21 09:22:41 PM  
s3-ec.buzzfed.com
 
2013-04-21 09:23:07 PM  

foo monkey: namatad: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

this and only this
but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...
shudder

how hard is it to do things legally, instead of like children?
I think he understands that his only hope at this point is life in prison.
TADA
I will tell you everything in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
TADA

He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.


Thats for sure...I wonder if he will be the youngest to go to Supermax?
 
2013-04-21 09:24:06 PM  

foo monkey: He'll grow old in the SuperMax in Colorado.


A) We have enough scum in Colorado.  Plus all those asshole in the Supermax
B) He is sane and an adult (a real, not a made-up, 'adult') - he will get the needle - I'm sure the English already have really good odds on that one
C) He better hope the feds don't get all pissy and let the fine folks from Oklahoma have the honors
 
2013-04-21 09:25:03 PM  

ZAZ: BrieBelle00
The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


www.radford.edu

First one, then the other.
 
2013-04-21 09:25:11 PM  
I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.
 
2013-04-21 09:25:15 PM  
So, he could kill all those others with guns and bombs, but the one person he could not kill was himself.
 
2013-04-21 09:25:35 PM  

JerseyTim: He just drew a picture of Kevin Spacey.


i132.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-21 09:26:03 PM  

Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended twisted into whatever shape the gubmint wants on this one.

 
2013-04-21 09:27:47 PM  

lordjupiter: Do you wish you'd just stuck to smoking weed and playing soldier on Xbox know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels? (Check one)

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

 
2013-04-21 09:28:56 PM  

namatad: but the joke would be on the rest of us, if the cops failing to read him his rights led to his freedom ...


Okay, that's just not how that works at all.

Miranda is PURELY about what is admissible at trial, and given that his guilt can be established trivially without any confession (if just for the murder of that cop during his escape if not the bombings) there's no question of him conceivably going free.
 
2013-04-21 09:29:14 PM  
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-04-21 09:29:38 PM  
FTFA: "Meanwhile at the Watertown Police Station, neighbor Gale Boyd brought homemade brownies and Lindor truffles Sunday afternoon and shook the hand of the first police officer she saw."

What the fark, is this a news site or a church newsletter?
 
2013-04-21 09:29:42 PM  

djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?


From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.
 
2013-04-21 09:29:44 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

Get whatever you think you can get out of him and then put him in general lockup before the trial.

Things will take care of themselves.


That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.
 
2013-04-21 09:30:40 PM  

ZAZ: A politician was blowing his mouth off. They do that sometimes. A military trial would have to be based on the global war on terror and the 2001 authorization for use of military force against terrorists. At this point there isn't any evidence of international terrorism or even domestic terrorism. Terrorism is not the same as killing a lot of people.


This.  Right now, it's a mass murder incident.
 
2013-04-21 09:30:42 PM  

MisterTweak: Texas Gabe: Is there a CIA guy jamming his finger in the neck hole between every question?

I think probably just tugs on his catheter every time he wants to ask a question.


 or waving an oxy in his face...
 
2013-04-21 09:31:50 PM  

tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.


Is he in the same hospital where the bombing victims were sent?  If so, I'd imagine that this has been a very awkward weekend.
 
2013-04-21 09:33:42 PM  

NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.


bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
*breathes*
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
 
2013-04-21 09:33:52 PM  
At this point, they will have to focus their questioning about public safety, as in "are there more bombs", "where are additional bombs", "are there other who were helping you who might be ready to hurt people"???


This is permitted under the ruling about public safety.

They do not need to, nor should they, ask him questions related to intended prosecution. For that, they will have evidence taken from the chase, the capture, his apartments, eye witnesses and video. There is no reason to compromise any of that.
 
2013-04-21 09:33:58 PM  
D-R-I-N-K Y-O-U-R O-V-A-L-T-I-N-E

Wtf?
 
2013-04-21 09:34:07 PM  

AcesFull: MisterTweak: Texas Gabe: Is there a CIA guy jamming his finger in the neck hole between every question?

I think probably just tugs on his catheter every time he wants to ask a question.

 or waving an oxy in his face...


yeah, i imagined the nurse with the pain killers swappin' it for naloxone by accident but i kinda hope our system is better than that. If there is ANYTHING we've learned from Stargate, it's be nice, cause you never know who the aliens will interview to decide if you're worth keeping around.

/wonder what they'll put in his veins when it's time to talk
 
2013-04-21 09:34:10 PM  

BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.


Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.
 
2013-04-21 09:35:25 PM  

Weaver95: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

probably.  not that they aren't already tearing his life apart down to the sub-atomic level and seeing where he went off the rails into loonie toons land...but a nice discussion about motive and how/where he learned all his bomber tricks would help speed things up quite a bit.

if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.  they know Tsarnaev will crack sooner or later and once he does, the Fed will come down on 'em all like a ton of bricks drone strike.

 
2013-04-21 09:38:09 PM  
He is playing Sudoku.
 
2013-04-21 09:38:56 PM  
Again, he is terrible at his job...
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-21 09:39:52 PM  
The federal prosecutor is going to do this one by the numbers. There is a microscope focused on this case  and if it gets screwed up because someone didn't do everything by the book then every senator and congress critter will be screaming for the next 2 years on cable news. No one wants more of that.
 
2013-04-21 09:39:56 PM  
Are you feeling any discomfort? Would you like a Tylenol? OK, this is meant to be taken orally but due to your throat injury, we are going to have an orderly insert it like a suppository but all the way up to your stomach. Shaq, are you ready to administer the pain medicine?
 
2013-04-21 09:39:59 PM  

Mog32Kupo: Again, he is terrible at his job...
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 256x197]


Is that Emilio Estevez?
 
2013-04-21 09:40:06 PM  
Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

Find out who radicalized him, and send him a Hellfire.

"cleric", my ass.
 
2013-04-21 09:40:45 PM  

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


Actually, it's a criminal matter, not civil.

As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.
 
2013-04-21 09:41:33 PM  

NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.


You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident. They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.
 
2013-04-21 09:43:27 PM  

ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

Find out who radicalized him, and send him a Hellfire.

"cleric", my ass.


There's evil clerics. Do you even D&D?
 
2013-04-21 09:43:30 PM  

Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.


damn... thats hardkore
 
2013-04-21 09:43:45 PM  
"Lol my brother is cooked"
 
2013-04-21 09:43:53 PM  

wademh: Are you feeling any discomfort? Would you like a Tylenol? OK, this is meant to be taken orally but due to your throat injury, we are going to have an orderly insert it like a suppository but all the way up to your stomach. Shaq, are you ready to administer the pain medicine?


www.sportsauthority.com
while holding a ball
 
2013-04-21 09:43:55 PM  

calbert: it would be nice if all Americans could receive the level of free health care that this piece of sh*t has received.


Just like everyone who gets into the hospital, he'll be billed for the health care. Stamping license plates only pays so much, however. It's not "free," although he'll never be able to afford the bill.
 
2013-04-21 09:44:12 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".
 
2013-04-21 09:45:24 PM  
He hasn't been read his rights!  This is 0bummer's America!  He's going to have us all under marshal law!  Illegal home searches!
 
2013-04-21 09:46:12 PM  

Sid_6.7: [i140.photobucket.com image 590x375]

/*ding, ding*


"Dea ain't a word, Tsarnaev! Quit talking nonsense!"
 
2013-04-21 09:46:15 PM  
Send the kid to Pyongyang. Tell him that we will reduce his charges to murder 1 and he will live out his life in a federal prison.. but only if he manages to nuke Fat Kim and most (if not all) of the DPRK's government officials in Pyongyang. Kill two birds with one stone.
 
2013-04-21 09:46:19 PM  
I would imagine they would like to know if there are any more bombs out there, if they had help or assistance, that kind of thing. And he should get a fair trial, by a jury of his peers, followed by a first-rate execution. If I'm not mistaken, isn't killing a police officer in the commission of a crime a federal offense? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one.
 
2013-04-21 09:46:33 PM  

thisiszombocom: Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.

damn... thats hardkore


No, that's a fairy tale.
 
2013-04-21 09:47:21 PM  

ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.


I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?
 
2013-04-21 09:47:26 PM  
From an article about this douchebag: "The friends also repeatedly said that Dzohkar Tsarnaev is a notoriously bad driver."

And according to the Boston police chief, this guy ran over his own brother while escaping and "dragged his sibling's body a short distance down the street and drove off."

DOH!
 
2013-04-21 09:48:12 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Mog32Kupo: Again, he is terrible at his job...
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 256x197]

Is that Emilio Estevez?


Talentless brother Joe, from the lemon Soultaker.  But one of the best MST3k
http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/Soultaker
 
2013-04-21 09:48:45 PM  
My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.
 
2013-04-21 09:49:57 PM  

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


I suspect that, at the moment, they're less focused on a confession than wanting to know if there are more people involved (and therefore whether more attacks are possible).
 
2013-04-21 09:51:04 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?


If the laws already in place already have rules for what classifies someone as a terrorist, and if he fits those guidelines, then the rules aren't being bent 'cause the guy's evil'.  The guy is being held by the laws of the land.
 
2013-04-21 09:51:15 PM  

ZeroCorpse: What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?


False.

thefarmclub.net
 
2013-04-21 09:51:30 PM  

ambassador_ahab: Stupid Fartbongo should have just wiped the guy out with a drone.  Now he's gonna write literature and recruit new terrorists and we'll all be farked.


Haha yeah no his life as he knows it is over.

/I see your "Fartbongo." I see what you did there.
 
2013-04-21 09:51:32 PM  

Mog32Kupo: Joe


"G'bye, Joe!"

/also in the episode covering Werewolf
//"That was absolutely fascinating."
 
2013-04-21 09:52:10 PM  

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


Military or civil? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.
 
2013-04-21 09:52:10 PM  

Weaver95: if there ARE other bombers out there, other cells then you can bet they just got a great reason to kick their plans into high gear.  they know Tsarnaev will crack sooner or later and once he does, the Fed will come down on 'em all like a ton of bricks.


If there are other bombers/accomplices out there, I kinda expect they wouldn't let the younger brother know too much about who/where they are...
 
2013-04-21 09:53:39 PM  
I thought Drew had a rule that we weren't to use these guy's real names and had to instead refer to them as some character from The Simpsons.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:24 PM  

Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.


Trying to follow your logic.  It then follows that the younger brother should've committed suicide, as he had many chances including popping out of the boat like Rambo.  Or shooting his own brains out.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:31 PM  

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


He'll be tried in a civil court, likely federal for the terrorism related crimes, and/or state for the murder related crimes.

There is literally no way that he'll be tried as an enemy combatant.  If we were in a declared war, with a clear enemy, and he was working as an agent for that enemy to attack us here, he'd be tried in a tribunal, most likely.

As is, he's an American citizen, who committed a very henous act of terrorism/murder.  That's it.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:33 PM  

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


I think the meaning of what I initially wrote was misunderstood... I'm not arguing that it  should be moved to military court, or that it legally can be - one of the fun parts of being in the military is they make you learn a whole bunch o' the military's rules, so I know he does not qualify to be tried in a military tribunal. The last article I read about "who gets to try him" was early Saturday morning, and it sounded like more than a couple repubs wanted to get the Bush-era debates about all 'terrorism suspects, no matter whose citizenship they hold, can be tried by tribunal' back in congress quickly so they could circumvent a civilian trial with this kid. I admittedly didn't look for any other articles about whether they changed their tune because I thought it was ridiculous, so I totally believe  ZAZ if it was just some old dude(s) running his mouth. I had seen a few comments in another thread a few hours ago, so I just figured they were still trying to get the talks going again out on the Hill.
 
2013-04-21 09:54:47 PM  
imageshack.us
 
2013-04-21 09:55:16 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: That whole "equal protection under the law" and "innocent until proven guilty" is just silly talk anyway.

Funny how the biggest "patriots" are the ones who ignore every part of the Constitution other than the 2nd Amendment.


You clearly don't understand. We're all John Wayne and we're going to get the bad guys. Judge Jury and executioner.
 
2013-04-21 09:55:18 PM  

jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".


...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.
 
2013-04-21 09:56:08 PM  
American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.
 
2013-04-21 09:57:13 PM  

Altair: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

What does state court have to do with this?


There's a good chance he'll be tried in state court for murder...

Seriously, just because they're calling it an act of terrorism doesn't mean it's automatically going to go before a federal court.  They'll give MA the first choice at a trial, just like was done with John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo.
 
2013-04-21 09:57:14 PM  

Great Janitor: tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.

Is he in the same hospital where the bombing victims were sent?  If so, I'd imagine that this has been a very awkward weekend.


Considering how many hospitals there are in the area and how many injured were sent to different hospitals I would guess that there are at least a couple at the hospital he was sent to.
 
2013-04-21 09:57:29 PM  

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal?


Because Bush Administration precedent.

/it'll be a civvy court, though
 
2013-04-21 09:58:19 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: ZeroCorpse: What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

False.

[thefarmclub.net image 236x236]


True
cdn.sheknows.com
 
2013-04-21 09:58:30 PM  

saturn badger: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Military or civil? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.


It wasn't  my idea, it was the republicans who were discussing trying to get the Bush-era debates going again so this kid could be moved to a tribunal. I know he doesn't qualify for anything other than State or Federal.
 
2013-04-21 09:58:39 PM  
The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.
 
2013-04-21 09:59:39 PM  

J Noble Daggett: wademh: Are you feeling any discomfort? Would you like a Tylenol? OK, this is meant to be taken orally but due to your throat injury, we are going to have an orderly insert it like a suppository but all the way up to your stomach. Shaq, are you ready to administer the pain medicine?

[www.sportsauthority.com image 220x220]
while holding a ball


The Uruk-Hai had a basketball team?
 
2013-04-21 10:00:22 PM  

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-21 10:01:33 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

He'll be tried in a civil court, likely federal for the terrorism related crimes, and/or state for the murder related crimes.

There is literally no way that he'll be tried as an enemy combatant.  If we were in a declared war, with a clear enemy, and he was working as an agent for that enemy to attack us here, he'd be tried in a tribunal, most likely.

As is, he's an American citizen, who committed a very henous act of terrorism/murder.  That's it.


I know what the laws say, and that he only qualifies to be tried in State or Federal courts; guess I should have been more clear in my original question that it was in reference to the republicans who had gone on about trying to find a way to get it moved to a military tribunal.
 
2013-04-21 10:01:40 PM  

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


So the big, bad "conservatives" can jerk off to their torture porn.  It makes them feel tough, manly, and not the type to put up with anybody's shiat!!  *SNORT*

Or maybe they just have no faith in that Constitution they're always claiming to care about.
 
2013-04-21 10:02:05 PM  
19 is the new 12
 
2013-04-21 10:02:13 PM  
One beep for "guilty."  Two beeps for "double guilty."

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-21 10:02:24 PM  

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.


Injuring 180+ people is pretty "mass" in my opinion. I guess that's commonplace where you live.
 
2013-04-21 10:02:58 PM  

ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).


He deserves to be executed, but life w/o parole is more cruel.  So my vote is for that.
 
2013-04-21 10:03:14 PM  
See, when they want to keep you alive, they can.  The rest of us get Allstate
 
2013-04-21 10:03:48 PM  
I don't get why people think this is going to be anything but a regular fed trial. There is nothing to be gained by anyone to do it in any other setting. Nor do I really see why the trial is a big deal at all other than the final sentencing wherein the people who will be happier if he is dead will argue with the people who will be happier if he is alive (and obviously miserable) over whether or not killing somebody for killing other somebodies is a good idea.

In the end the only true winners will be the media conglomerates who will milk the whole tragedy in the most sordid way imaginable. Im sure the ratings will be fantastic.
 
2013-04-21 10:04:26 PM  

Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


FTFY
 
2013-04-21 10:04:31 PM  

NewportBarGuy: No, that's a fairy tale.



"A local officer spotted the brothers driving in two cars, a Honda sedan and the stolen Mercedes SUV, said Deveau. The brothers stopped, jumped out and started firing on the officer, while more police rushed to the scene, he said.
"Quickly we had six Watertown police officers and two bad guys in a gunfight," said Deveau. At least 200 shots were fired; maybe as many as 300, he said.
The shots, around 12:50 a.m., woke resident Jennings Aske, at 66 Laurel Ave. When he looked out his window he saw a green Honda Civic sedan stopped in the street, with its lights on and the driver's side windows blown out. A husky man - apparently Tamerlan Tsarnaev -- stood nearby firing a gun.
"I saw him standing there shooting at police," Aske said. "When he fired, there was a little flash of light. I could hear the gun firing. It was terrifying."
A police SUV came down Laurel Street, hearing west toward Dexter Ave., crashing into some trash cans on the sidewalk and into a parked car. Aske said he then saw a black Mercedes SUV drive up, also heading west toward Dexter Avenue. Then he heard two or three loud explosions, one of them large enough to shake the house. In an instant, the street "was crawling with police," he said.
Deveau said the Tsarnaev brothers hurled something at the officers - apparently a pressure cooker bomb -- and there was a tremendous explosion. Police later found the lid to a pressure cooker. "We believe it was an exact duplicate of the Boston Marathon bombs," he said. The suspects also threw five "crude grenades" at officers; three of which exploded, he said.
One of his officers put his cruiser into gear and jumped out of it, letting it roll at the suspects to draw fire, he said. The suspects peppered the car with bullets.
After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel. The officers scattered and the SUV plowed over Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged briefly under the car, he said.
Dzhokar Tsarnaev abandoned the SUV almost immediately on a nearby street and fled on foot, triggering an all-day manhunt."
 
2013-04-21 10:04:34 PM  
Oh, good, now we can all focus on their motivations like they matter.

They don't.
 
2013-04-21 10:04:44 PM  

BrieBelle00: I know what the laws say, and that he only qualifies to be tried in State or Federal courts; guess I should have been more clear in my original question that it was in reference to the republicans who had gone on about trying to find a way to get it moved to a military tribunal.


So you think they should move this trial to a military tribunal, right?
 
2013-04-21 10:05:00 PM  

Great Janitor: If the laws already in place already have rules for what classifies someone as a terrorist, and if he fits those guidelines, then the rules aren't being bent 'cause the guy's evil'.  The guy is being held by the laws of the land.


Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.
 
2013-04-21 10:05:10 PM  
I just applied for a mortgage refinance, and the bank crawled up my ass with a microscope. I can't imagine the scrutiny he and his entire family and everyone he and his brother talked to / carpooled with / had classes with / had drinks with / rode the T with / breathed the same air with are going to go through.

I'm going to enjoy it though
 
2013-04-21 10:05:33 PM  

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.


A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.
 
2013-04-21 10:06:14 PM  

jaytkay: Injuring 180+ people is pretty "mass" in my opinion. I guess that's commonplace where you live.


"Weapons of Mass Destruction" began as a euphemism for NUCLEAR WEAPONS.  They were then broadened to include things like mass chemical weapons (not pepper spray!) and other things that will take out entire cities.  Weapons that even "civilized" armies aren't supposed to use.

So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of  "weapons of mass destruction."

The US invaded Iraq on suspicion of "weapons of mass destruction." None were found.  Meanwhile, tons of IEDs far more lethal than this Boston pressure cooker bomb are all over the place - they are not "weapons of mass destruction."
 
2013-04-21 10:06:30 PM  

ZeroCorpse: My current theory:

The older brother (I'm not going to bother spelling their names) was a boxer at the Olympic level... One that didn't make the Olympics. He also recently began following the teachings of a religious radical.

What if the cause of all of this was brain damage incurred as a boxer?

He got knocked around, something broke in his head, he failed to make the Olympics because of it, and the combination of brain damage and failure at his primary pursuit in life caused him to become open to crazy talk.

What if this event is not an indictment against Chechens, or Islam, or political points of view, but against full-contact sports?

Hmm.


You just blew my mind.
 
2013-04-21 10:06:37 PM  

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


Or maybe we could, I don't know, put him on trial?
 
2013-04-21 10:06:51 PM  

saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY


People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.
 
2013-04-21 10:08:29 PM  
l1.yimg.com
 
2013-04-21 10:08:30 PM  

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point


Do you really not like hospital pudding? Can I have it?
 
2013-04-21 10:08:46 PM  

Mugato: Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.


Laws are an "official definition".  You can only charge someone with a crime that's on the books.
 
2013-04-21 10:09:06 PM  

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.
 
2013-04-21 10:09:35 PM  
AliceBToklasLives:

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?

The bombs make it federal regardless. They don't need to bend any rules to put this in federal court. As such, he will be subject to the death penalty. I would expect this to play out just like McVeigh's trial and end in a similar fashion.
 
2013-04-21 10:10:12 PM  

Weaver95: I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.


Used to be, the highest profile cases were when you made extra damn sure the rules were followed. When did we decide that the best way to "send a message" was to demonstrate willingness to break our own rules? And who, exactly, is supposed to be impressed by that?
 
2013-04-21 10:11:01 PM  

Dougie AXP: A bomb is a bomb. Doesn't matter if it's a pipe bomb, a fertilizer based bomb, or a pressure cooker rigged with black powder and nails. It's designed to inflict maximum damage with minimal effort.

He could have placed a claymore or several grenades in a backpack. It's a bomb. end of story.


Yes. It's a bomb.  It is not, however, a "weapon of mass destruction."

I've never denied it was a bomb. This guy did a mass murder with bombs.  That part is pretty much an airtight case I think, if they've got video, not to mention all the various bits of evidence they've collected at the scene.

Then there's all the killing of a policemen, chucking more bombs out of their car, yeah. Plenty of crimes here. There is no way this guy is ever going free.
 
2013-04-21 10:11:20 PM  

jaytkay: Mugato: Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.

Laws are an "official definition".  You can only charge someone with a crime that's on the books.


Blowing people up is a crime that's on the books. The question was whether they are calling it terrorism.
 
2013-04-21 10:11:29 PM  

El Supe: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.


You gotta love how some people are like "America is the greatest country in the world!" until it comes to being scared, then they're like "Our laws shouldn't apply when we're afraid!"
 
2013-04-21 10:11:33 PM  
If I were a federal investigator, I'd get an agent fluent in Russian to pose as a doctor. When alone in the room, he'd pretend to sympathize with the kid. Maybe even pretend to be an undercover Chechen agent working on springing him out. 19 year olds are stupid, expecially when traumatized and drugged. Get him to say things he won't say to guys with badges.

It's possible I've seen too much Mission: Impossible.
 
2013-04-21 10:11:41 PM  
The only question they should ask him is "when we stick ya in the electric chair, ya want original or extra crispy?"
 
2013-04-21 10:11:44 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

He'll be tried in a civilcriminal court, likely federal for the terrorism related crimes, and/or state for the murder related crimes.

There is literally no way that he'll be tried as an enemy combatant.  If we were in a declared war, with a clear enemy, and he was working as an agent for that enemy to attack us here, he'd be tried in a tribunal, most likely.

As is, he's an American citizen, who committed a very henous act of terrorism/murder.  That's it.


He is not being sued.
 
2013-04-21 10:12:00 PM  
The brothers' uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, told the Associated Press that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was "used" by his older brother to carry out the bombing. "He's not been understanding anything," Tsarni said. "He's a 19-year-old boy."

/Ya, i'm not buying that shiat dude. I can understand your family's pain at being relations to terrorists, but he's 19, MORE than old enough to know that planting bombs and blowing up innocent men, women, and children is wrong. Esp since he's been in country this long. I don't doubt that his brother was a major teacher of hate and intolerance, but he had his own mind, and unless you can prove he's a sociopath, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and its consequences.
 
2013-04-21 10:12:27 PM  

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

....



Your GED in law has been recalled.  A weapon of mass destruction under federal law is

18 USC § 2332a - Use of weapons of mass destruction
(2)the term "weapon of mass destruction" means-
(A) any destructive device as defined in section 921


18 USC § 921 - Definitions
(4)The term "destructive device" means-
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas-(i) bomb,(ii) grenade,(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,(v) mine, or(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;
 
2013-04-21 10:13:02 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-21 10:13:10 PM  

saturn badger: He is not being sued.


...yet. :)
 
2013-04-21 10:13:24 PM  

JohnBigBootay: American citizen, American soil, not the member of any military. Why would we even have a discussion about a military tribunal? To what end? So he had less rights? Who gives a shiat? The shiattiest prosecutor in history couldn't screw this up.


I believe the US Attorney in Boston is Carmen Ortiz, most recently in the news for the prosecution of Aaron Swartz.
 
2013-04-21 10:13:50 PM  

itazurakko: jaytkay: Injuring 180+ people is pretty "mass" in my opinion. I guess that's commonplace where you live.

"Weapons of Mass Destruction" began as a euphemism for NUCLEAR WEAPONS.  They were then broadened to include things like mass chemical weapons (not pepper spray!) and other things that will take out entire cities.  Weapons that even "civilized" armies aren't supposed to use.

So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of  "weapons of mass destruction."

The US invaded Iraq on suspicion of "weapons of mass destruction." None were found.  Meanwhile, tons of IEDs far more lethal than this Boston pressure cooker bomb are all over the place - they are not "weapons of mass destruction."


Whatever. There's a Federal law he can be charged with.

Look it up if you want to know how weapon of mass destruction is defined. See if it meets with your approval.

I'm sure Federal prosecutors will be anxiously awaiting your OK before they proceed.
 
2013-04-21 10:13:56 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: If I were a federal investigator, I'd get an agent fluent in Russian to pose as a doctor. When alone in the room, he'd pretend to sympathize with the kid. Maybe even pretend to be an undercover Chechen agent working on springing him out. 19 year olds are stupid, expecially when traumatized and drugged. Get him to say things he won't say to guys with badges.

It's possible I've seen too much Mission: Impossible.


I think that happened in Rainbow 6.
 
2013-04-21 10:14:02 PM  

Alonjar: After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel. The officers scattered and the SUV plowed over Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged briefly under the car, he said.


You're reading that as he intentionally killed his brother. I'm reading it as he killed his brother trying to get away.

Neither of us will know until more information comes out. The only thing I was asserting is that he has to live with the fact that he killed his brother. Maybe that's why he tried to kill himself. It's all supposition.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 10:15:15 PM  
So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.
 
2013-04-21 10:16:20 PM  

Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.


Ted Kaczynski, by himself, killed just as many people as this guy did with bombs and he's alive in prison. There's no reason to kill Tsarnaev now and keeping him alive might help us better understand bombers in the future.
 
2013-04-21 10:16:22 PM  
D-R-I-N-K M-O-R-E O-V-A-L-T-I-N-E
 
2013-04-21 10:16:34 PM  

sdd2000: 18 USC § 921 - Definitions
(4)The term "destructive device" means-
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas-(i) bomb,(ii) grenade,(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,(v) mine, or(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;


Well, it started with a properly different meaning. If it's been watered down to this, I still think it's ridiculous.  It was originally about "non-conventional weapons."
 
2013-04-21 10:16:58 PM  

Great Janitor: As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts. If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.


Were any of the 180 or so injured military or federal employees? That's probably the angle they'll use.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they check every piece of equipment they used. If they went to New Hampshire to buy the backpack and save the sales tax, they'll make it a federal crime that crossed state lines.
 
2013-04-21 10:17:22 PM  

BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Military or civil? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.

It wasn't  my idea, it was the republicans who were discussing trying to get the Bush-era debates going again so this kid could be moved to a tribunal. I know he doesn't qualify for anything other than State or Federal.


I didn't get that from your comment and have been tuned out of the news the last few days. Been out chillin' and partying. Sometimes that is a better place to be.
 
2013-04-21 10:17:37 PM  

Mugato: jaytkay: Mugato: Well since they call pretty much any violent act "terrorism" nowadays, I'm not sure there is an official definition that anyone actually follows.

Laws are an "official definition".  You can only charge someone with a crime that's on the books.

Blowing people up is a crime that's on the books. The question was whether they are calling it terrorism.


Remote bombs used to kill and maim people while they were watching a race, sending the message that you are not safe, that we can kill you in this city, that's terrorism.
 
2013-04-21 10:17:42 PM  

El Supe: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

He can be stripped of his naturalized citizenship for lying or misleading on his citizenship application.  So there it is, strip him of citizenship, administer some sodium pentathol and try him as enemy combatant.


And the purpose of all that would be.....?
 
2013-04-21 10:17:54 PM  
 
2013-04-21 10:17:59 PM  

jaytkay: I'm sure Federal prosecutors will be anxiously awaiting your OK before they proceed.


Oh, I very much doubt that. Doesn't mean people can't criticize the mad rush to call everything under the sun "terrorism" now.
 
2013-04-21 10:18:10 PM  
The brothers' uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, told the Associated Press that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was "used" by his older brother to carry out the bombing. "He's not been understanding anything," Tsarni said. "He's a 19-year-old boy."

I knew this pathetic defense was going to rear its head. He lost any chance at that when he decided to fire an automatic weapon at police officers attempting to apprehend him. Death penalty. I don't give a shiat if he's 19. Death penalty.
 
2013-04-21 10:18:11 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Alonjar: After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel. The officers scattered and the SUV plowed over Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged briefly under the car, he said.

You're reading that as he intentionally killed his brother. I'm reading it as he killed his brother trying to get away.

Neither of us will know until more information comes out. The only thing I was asserting is that he has to live with the fact that he killed his brother. Maybe that's why he tried to kill himself. It's all supposition.


Maybe he was master and his brother was blaster.

#2 was #1 and planned the whole thing and took advantage of his older brothers budding religious radicalism, he ran over his brother to keep him from talking.
 
2013-04-21 10:18:33 PM  

ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.


Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!
 
2013-04-21 10:18:55 PM  

ManateeGag: He hasn't been read his rights!  This is 0bummer's America!  He's going to have us all under marshal law!  Illegal home searches!


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-04-21 10:19:01 PM  

tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.


His doctors are actually Israeli. So lulz.
 
2013-04-21 10:19:03 PM  

Nem Wan: Weaver95: I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended on this one.

Used to be, the highest profile cases were when you made extra damn sure the rules were followed. When did we decide that the best way to "send a message" was to demonstrate willingness to break our own rules? And who, exactly, is supposed to be impressed by that?


Usually, people too stupid and/or ignorant to understand the historical relevance of the rules, and the importance of holding them sacred so that they don't eventually degrade into tyranny against the populous.  I sure as hell expect the government to prosecute this guy effectively without their incompetence resulting in the rules having to be bent, or allowing the casus belli de jour to determine our legal standards.

 I forget, is this one of those situations where we let the law be "modified" because we trust the government, or because we're worried about them?  I just want to know what argument is going to be used in the next gun thread.
 
2013-04-21 10:19:06 PM  
I hope it's pork chop day at the hospital.
 
2013-04-21 10:19:20 PM  
Will Sgt Fury interrogate him?
 
2013-04-21 10:19:52 PM  

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


Why? So we can deport them? I'm not sure why that would help. Maybe you can explain it.
 
2013-04-21 10:21:21 PM  

ManateeGag: He hasn't been read his rights!  This is 0bummer's America!  He's going to have us all under marshal law!  Illegal home searches!


Well at least I see you're hooked on phonics.
 
2013-04-21 10:21:35 PM  

awalkingecho: tirob: I hope for his sake that none of the people taking care of him is related to that kid that was killed in the bombings.

His doctors are actually Israeli. So lulz.


Citation on the Israeli doctors in case anyone wants it
 
2013-04-21 10:21:46 PM  
A lot better way for communicating with others than using bombs.   He should have just started out writing and skipped all the violence.
 
2013-04-21 10:21:53 PM  

IntertubeUser: Fark you, Scorecard Reseach!


Ghostery is your friend.
 
2013-04-21 10:22:29 PM  

ZAZ: I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

A politician was blowing his mouth off. They do that sometimes. A military trial would have to be based on the global war on terror and the 2001 authorization for use of military force against terrorists. At this point there isn't any evidence of international terrorism or even domestic terrorism. Terrorism is not the same as killing a lot of people.

I heard an interview with Alan Dershowitz. He said he would flunk anybody in his class who suggested a military tribunal under the circumstances.


Sounds like a terrorist.
 
2013-04-21 10:23:22 PM  
Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?
 
2013-04-21 10:23:54 PM  
What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!
 
2013-04-21 10:23:57 PM  
I find it interesting that there is no mention of the guns they used. Not the usual AK-47, Glock, assault rifle you usually hear, and in the gun control frenzy the politicians are in right now.
 
2013-04-21 10:25:02 PM  

dr_blasto: I would expect this to play out just like McVeigh's trial and end in a similar fashion.


It'd better.
 
2013-04-21 10:25:15 PM  

rkiller1: Alonjar: NewportBarGuy: djkutch: know your ran over your brother's body during your get away? Feels?

From the vague reports, sounds like he probably killed his brother. Yes, please live with that for a few years.

You guys are clueless.  According to the police, the older (dead) brother had run out of ammunition, and two police officers had actually tackled and subdued him.  Thats when the younger brother tried to run all 3 down.  It wasnt an accident.  They most likely made a pact to not be taken alive or something similar, and when he saw that his brother had been incapacitated, unable to even blow himself up, he decided that killing them all himself was the best solution.

Quit acting like he will feel remorse.. he did his brother a favor.

Trying to follow your logic.  It then follows that the younger brother should've committed suicide, as he had many chances including popping out of the boat like Rambo.  Or shooting his own brains out.


That's exactly what the reports out now are saying - that his neck injury was him eating a bullet. He put the gun in his mouth and fired straight back through his neck, and not up through his head.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 10:25:18 PM  
In federal criminal law, terrorism is defined to include only acts that
"appear to be intended-
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping"
18 USC 2331
 
2013-04-21 10:26:11 PM  

awalkingecho: His doctors are actually Israeli.



You realize the nationality of his doctor has nothing to do with anything, unless you are an overt racist, right?
 
2013-04-21 10:26:41 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!


I'm pretty sure they stripped him when they carjacked his car, as either a change of clothes or to leave behind as a distraction. Or at least that's what I heard circulating. Not sure if accurate.

hunh: I find it interesting that there is no mention of the guns they used. Not the usual AK-47, Glock, assault rifle you usually hear, and in the gun control frenzy the politicians are in right now.


I'll try and find the source but one of the police reports I read said they had semi-auto pistols at the first encounter.
 
2013-04-21 10:26:46 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!


The naked man, it's my best move.  Works two out of three times.

My favorite naked man pose is the Captain Morgan.
 
2013-04-21 10:27:10 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


Because we're really mad or something and it's harder to do horrible things to citizens maybe.
 
2013-04-21 10:27:45 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?


Federal case under
18 U.S.C. 2332a Murder by the use of a weapon of mass destruction

Take your pick
 
2013-04-21 10:28:19 PM  

Alonjar: One of his officers put his cruiser into gear and jumped out of it, letting it roll at the suspects to draw fire, he said. The suspects peppered the car with bullets.


That is awesome. That officer's quick use of tactics may have saved the lives of him and others.
 
2013-04-21 10:28:25 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


That way we can string him and drag his body through town behind a horse.
At least I think that's what they're getting at.
 
2013-04-21 10:28:26 PM  
I hope we can learn from Dzhokhar Tsarnaev everything we possibly can!
A Boston Cop friend of mine sent me a graphic picture of his brother  Tamerlan dead on a gurney.
Pretty sick and definitely not suitable for posting.
As a former Bostonian I pray for all that are affected.
Boston Strong!
 
2013-04-21 10:28:45 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!


The naked man was naked because the police made him strip in case he had a bomb on him, like the older brother did.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:07 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

Because we're really mad or something and it's harder to do horrible things to citizens maybe.


Yep.  In some people's minds, it relieves us from our responsibilities to the rule of law.  Thank you, Alberto Gonzales, you farking worthless shiatstain of a man.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:27 PM  
It would suck to be this dudes lawyer.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:37 PM  

Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!


Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:42 PM  

awalkingecho: Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!

I'm pretty sure they stripped him when they carjacked his car, as either a change of clothes or to leave behind as a distraction. Or at least that's what I heard circulating. Not sure if accurate.

hunh: I find it interesting that there is no mention of the guns they used. Not the usual AK-47, Glock, assault rifle you usually hear, and in the gun control frenzy the politicians are in right now.

I'll try and find the source but one of the police reports I read said they had semi-auto pistols at the first encounter.


Glocks alone prolly kill more people than every spree rifle combined ever each year.
 
2013-04-21 10:29:56 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

That way we can string him [up] and drag his body through town behind a horse.
At least I think that's what they're getting at.

ftfm
 
2013-04-21 10:29:57 PM  

cretinbob: You realize the nationality of his doctor has nothing to do with anything, unless you are an overt racist, right?


And openly Jewish; if it wasn't that article there was another where the doctor was at-length questioned as to whether or not faith was affecting, consciously or unconsciously the care he was receiving. It was a point of interest; enough so that a news source actually made an article centered around it, so fark me for sharing it.

Cats and dogs living together.

Welcometofark.jpg
 
2013-04-21 10:30:02 PM  
As predicted, Fartbongo is preparing to pardon him.
 
2013-04-21 10:30:10 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

Because we're really mad or something and it's harder to do horrible things to citizens maybe.


That's about all I can figure.

Which is pretty fkn sick.
 
2013-04-21 10:30:25 PM  

jaytkay: saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY

People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.


Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such. Even civilian does not convey criminal. What is a civilian court? All I can find is it is not a military court but mostly goog tells me it is a civil and not a criminal court. There is a distinct difference.
 
2013-04-21 10:30:48 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


The ITGs are masturbating over the thought of torturing the kid and sending him to Gitmo.
 
2013-04-21 10:30:49 PM  
Also, just as a further evidence of probable Federal prosecution, he was actually taken into custody by the FBI. Boston PD were on the scene but it was the Feds that caught him so he is already technically in Federal custody.
 
2013-04-21 10:31:53 PM  

phrawgh: As predicted, Fartbongo is preparing to pardon him.


...and then give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom
 
2013-04-21 10:31:59 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.


Er.. no?
 
2013-04-21 10:32:09 PM  

LordJiro: Arthur Jumbles: What I want to know is what have police done with the third man? The naked man who they captured the night of the MIT shooting. How is he related to the bombing brothers? What about the naked man!

The naked man was naked because the police made him strip in case he had a bomb on him, like the older brother did.


Yeah, but who is he? How is he connected to the brothers? If a third person is involved that makes it sound more like a terrorist cell.
 
2013-04-21 10:33:21 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.


Physics. How the fark does it work?
 
2013-04-21 10:33:33 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: It's possible I've seen too much Mission: Impossible.


And they could tape it. The only problem is the tape would self destruct in five seconds.
 
2013-04-21 10:33:40 PM  
I wonder if he's going to be talking like this woman for the rest of his life:

cdn.abclocal.go.com
 
2013-04-21 10:34:16 PM  

saturn badger: BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Military or civi? Not sure where you got that idea. Neither apply here. My guess would be criminal court.

It wasn't  my idea, it was the republicans who were discussing trying to get the Bush-era debates going again so this kid could be moved to a tribunal. I know he doesn't qualify for anything other than State or Federal.

I didn't get that from your comment and have been tuned out of the news the last few days. Been out chillin' and partying. Sometimes that is a better place to be.


Totally hear ya there... I left the news completely off almost all day yesterday - then when I turned it on people were shooting into the crowd in Colorado at the 4/20 rally, and then, like, 5 people were killed in an avalanche. So I turned it back off. If the Mayas had predicted April instead of December, idda been nervous this week...
 
2013-04-21 10:34:16 PM  
It's simple.  Obama wanted miranda warnings for terrorist under bush.  Now that black bush is in charge, well we can just ship him off to Guantanamo or some other unlisted facility.
 
2013-04-21 10:34:19 PM  

J Noble Daggett: At this point, they will have to focus their questioning about public safety, as in "are there more bombs", "where are additional bombs", "are there other who were helping you who might be ready to hurt people"???


This is permitted under the ruling about public safety.

They do not need to, nor should they, ask him questions related to intended prosecution. For that, they will have evidence taken from the chase, the capture, his apartments, eye witnesses and video. There is no reason to compromise any of that.


Bingo.

This questioning, the whole "Public Safety Exemption" is on the idea that maybe they weren't acting alone, that they had other contacts in the US, or had other bombs set, or at least built.

The evidence against him is a goddamn mountain without him saying a word.  As has been pointed out, the murder of the MIT PD officer alone, which was WELL documented on its own, is enough to make sure he's never a free man again.  If he doesn't say a thing, or if everything he says is ruled inadmissible in court, he's still never going to walk free again.

You think prosecutors are going to flush their career over a slam-dunk super-high-profile case on something as simple as a freaking Miranda Warning?  I'm sure they are quite sure of their course of action on this.
 
2013-04-21 10:34:59 PM  

saturn badger: People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such.


Lighten up. Non-lawyers are not using proper legal terms. It happens.
 
2013-04-21 10:35:03 PM  

wxboy: I wonder if he's going to be talking like this woman for the rest of his life:

[cdn.abclocal.go.com image 600x338]


What the shiat, man?
 
2013-04-21 10:36:42 PM  

ideamaster: It's simple.  Obama wanted miranda warnings for terrorist under bush.  Now that black bush is in charge, well we can just ship him off to Guantanamo or some other unlisted facility.


I'll give you 1/10, because there are actually people stupid enough to believe that.
 
2013-04-21 10:37:00 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.

Er.. no?


I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.
 
2013-04-21 10:37:15 PM  
Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.
 
2013-04-21 10:38:55 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: phrawgh: As predicted, Fartbongo is preparing to pardon him.

...and then give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom


Them foreign born muslims always stick together.
 
2013-04-21 10:39:22 PM  

HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.


I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.
 
2013-04-21 10:39:43 PM  

saturn badger: jaytkay: saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY

People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such. Even civilian does not convey criminal. What is a civilian court? All I can find is it is not a military court but mostly goog tells me it is a civil and not a criminal court. There is a distinct difference.


In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.
 
2013-04-21 10:39:48 PM  

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?


This is bullshiat.

You don't have to immediately read someone's Miranda Rights, especially not when they are in need of urgent medical assistance. There are multiple clauses when it can be delayed.

No one walks merely because they were not read their miranda rights, that's TV fiction
 
2013-04-21 10:40:49 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Seriously, just because they're calling it an act of terrorism doesn't mean it's automatically going to go before a federal court.  They'll give MA the first choice at a trial, just like was done with John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo.


I think they'll weigh options.  Virginia got first crack at Muhammed and Malvo because they have the death penalty, but Maryland did not.  Since Mass doesn't have the death penalty, there is more pressure to charge them in federal court.
 
2013-04-21 10:41:21 PM  
My proposed punishment: locked in a cell with the gruesome injuries he caused plastered on the walls around him, Dexter-style. He'll spend the rest of his life looking at bloody stumps dead/suffering people, and the picture of his brother's mutilated corpse front and center.

And the first meal delivered to him should be chicken wings and... something with marinara sauce. Enjoy your meal!
 
2013-04-21 10:41:21 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: The brothers' uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, told the Associated Press that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was "used" by his older brother to carry out the bombing. "He's not been understanding anything," Tsarni said. "He's a 19-year-old boy."

/Ya, i'm not buying that shiat dude. I can understand your family's pain at being relations to terrorists, but he's 19, MORE than old enough to know that planting bombs and blowing up innocent men, women, and children is wrong. Esp since he's been in country this long. I don't doubt that his brother was a major teacher of hate and intolerance, but he had his own mind, and unless you can prove he's a sociopath, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and its consequences.


I am no longer 19 but I damned well knew well before that age one did not put explosives in crowds of people. I also knew there would be fearsome consequences if I did. Uncle Tsarni can join the rest of his clan with their heads up their asses.
 
2013-04-21 10:41:26 PM  
Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice what I preach, even in the shiat.
 
2013-04-21 10:41:35 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

That way we can string him and drag his body through town behind a horse.
At least I think that's what they're getting at.


And, in spite of all the desire to strip him of any rights, he still has them regardless of his citizenship. These Farkers are forgetting that the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, not just citizens.

I see a lot of pro-2A anti-gun-control people demanding we remove this dude's rights.
 
2013-04-21 10:42:55 PM  

scraping-fetus-off-the-wheel: The federal prosecutor is going to do this one by the numbers. There is a microscope focused on this case and if it gets screwed up because someone didn't do everything by the book then every senator and congress critter will be screaming for the next 2 years on cable news. No one wants more of that.


Getting off on a technicality does not happen anymore. Around here they arrested a guy for raping a few people but the city DA farked up the paperwork and he sat in jail for close to a year before the judge dismissed his case. Somehow after that a petition of sorts was filed and new charges were brought.
 
2013-04-21 10:43:08 PM  

awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.


You're worried about wasting bandwidth?  Here?
 
2013-04-21 10:43:10 PM  

saturn badger: jaytkay: saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY

People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such. Even civilian does not convey criminal. What is a civilian court? All I can find is it is not a military court but mostly goog tells me it is a civil and not a criminal court. There is a distinct difference.


Don't be silly, they still wear suits in criminal courts.
 
2013-04-21 10:43:28 PM  

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?


No.

Miranda warning makes things admissible in court. They can ask him anything without Mirandizing, as long as they don't want or need the responses for a conviction.

So, for example, I am sure they are asking if there are more bombs that need to be defused.
 
2013-04-21 10:43:40 PM  

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?


No.  Regardless of what he says, they have enough evidence otherwise to keep him in jail, particularly with the murder of the MIT officer.  Presumably they have physical evidence for the bombings as well.

It's not like they are holding someone they NEED a confession from.  It would be nice, but I imagine they have plenty of other evidence they can use.
 
2013-04-21 10:43:59 PM  

HotWingAgenda: Relatively Obscure: Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.

Er.. no?

I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.


Simply confusing mass with energy.
 
2013-04-21 10:45:30 PM  

lifeboat: That's exactly what the reports out now are saying - that his neck injury was him eating a bullet. He put the gun in his mouth and fired straight back through his neck, and not up through his head.


Then he has terrible aim. The correct aim in that instance would have paralyzed him so he couldn't write.

He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.
 
2013-04-21 10:46:10 PM  

astouffer: Getting off on a technicality does not happen anymore. Around here they arrested a guy for raping a few people but the city DA farked up the paperwork and he sat in jail for close to a year before the judge dismissed his case. Somehow after that a petition of sorts was filed and new charges were brought


Isn't that double jeopardy? Or were they different charges? I'd imagine they couldn't have been as serious as his first ones, if so.

 

Relatively Obscure: You're worried about wasting bandwidth?  Here?


I dunno man, Fark got farked several times this week over this case... I don't want to use all Drew's beer money.
 
2013-04-21 10:46:49 PM  

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.


Yo don't get to walk simply because you weren't Mirandized. The results of not being informed of your rights would mean that any confession or evidence you provided may not be admissible in court. If that's the only evidence they have, then you might walk.
 
2013-04-21 10:46:52 PM  

awalkingecho: Relatively Obscure: You're worried about wasting bandwidth? Here?

I dunno man, Fark got farked several times this week over this case... I don't want to use all Drew's beer money.


Fair point.  Fair point.
 
2013-04-21 10:47:02 PM  

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


I think most people would settle for a fair trial and then execution.  Not really sure we need to torture him unless there's a sleep cell planning more attacks, and even then we'd need pretty good proof that that's the case.
 
2013-04-21 10:47:09 PM  

I_C_Weener: [smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net image 598x300]


Stay frosty.
 
2013-04-21 10:47:49 PM  

awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.


that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com
 
2013-04-21 10:48:01 PM  

awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.


i35.tinypic.com

When I was twelve, I helped my daddy build a bomb shelter in our basement because some fool parked a dozen warheads 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Well, this thing could park a coupla hundred warheads off Washington and New York and no one would know anything about it till it was all over.

 
2013-04-21 10:48:35 PM  
wheres his lawyer?
 
2013-04-21 10:49:10 PM  
I really don't care about learning this douchebag's name. From here on out I'm calling him Jeckle. The dead one will be Heckle.
 
2013-04-21 10:49:12 PM  

Tatsuma: Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

This is bullshiat.

You don't have to immediately read someone's Miranda Rights, especially not when they are in need of urgent medical assistance. There are multiple clauses when it can be delayed.

No one walks merely because they were not read their miranda rights, that's TV fiction


Ok chill out. It was just a question which you answered. Thanks

And other than a few tv broadcasts, I haven't watched TV since 2009.
 
2013-04-21 10:49:22 PM  
currieddogfart.com
 
2013-04-21 10:49:26 PM  

Lsherm: they have enough evidence otherwise to keep him in jail, particularly with the murder of the MIT officer.


Yes, they have enough evidence to put him away forever, but is there much on that? No witnesses or video that I've heard of.

Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?
 
2013-04-21 10:49:39 PM  

dr_blasto: Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.

Yo don't get to walk simply because you weren't Mirandized. The results of not being informed of your rights would mean that any confession or evidence you provided may not be admissible in court. If that's the only evidence they have, then you might walk.


fortunately we have eye witnesses, video footage, still photos, forensic evidence and a ton of ready to throw bombs at their house and in their car. I don't think a confession is very necessary
 
2013-04-21 10:49:42 PM  

skullkrusher: that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com


Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot I was viewing this article from the mirror site, everyonesanarmchairexpertoneverything.fark.com
 
2013-04-21 10:49:51 PM  

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


for CHARGES?
 
2013-04-21 10:49:59 PM  

jaytkay: The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".


Sorry, that made me LoL. If the goverment is permitted to twist kitchen appliances into WMDs, you have much greater worries than a couple of crazy Chechens.
 
2013-04-21 10:50:06 PM  

Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

It doesn't say whether or not he's being interrogated.  It does say he's "not in any condition to be interrogated."  They might just be asking things like "Do you need any pillows" or whatever.

Then again, they might not be.


I believe they're trying to get confirmation that there are no more bombs somewhere in the city. Hence why his Miranda rights were not given
 
2013-04-21 10:50:28 PM  

skullkrusher: awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.

that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com


That's weird, that URL redirects to Reddit.
 
2013-04-21 10:50:31 PM  

Coastalgrl: Ok chill out. It was just a question which you answered. Thanks


... I wasn't being rude, I was just telling you that all of the people saying that he needs his miranda rights or he could walk are just saying a load of bullshiat, I wasn't insulting you.

knowless: wheres his lawyer?


He's being represented by the Feds.
 
2013-04-21 10:50:48 PM  
www.charlock.org
 
2013-04-21 10:50:58 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?

Because we're really mad or something and it's harder to do horrible things to citizens maybe.


It is in and of itself a punishment. I only brought it up as a part of the discussion on his rights, in a devils advocate role. It's amazing what you can learn here if you pay attention. Some people actually know things here.
 
2013-04-21 10:51:36 PM  
I hope they ask him which Pony is his favourite.
 
2013-04-21 10:52:07 PM  

HotWingAgenda: Relatively Obscure: Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.

Er.. no?

I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.


An object in motion kinda slows down.

In a closed system, energy fluctuates.

For every action, there's a reaction of some sort.
 
2013-04-21 10:52:13 PM  

saturn badger: He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.


He did a good job of escaping a gunfight in view of half a dozen police.
 
2013-04-21 10:52:19 PM  

awalkingecho: skullkrusher: that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com

Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot I was viewing this article from the mirror site, everyonesanarmchairexpertoneverything.fark.com


hehe nice
 
2013-04-21 10:52:31 PM  

Tatsuma: He's being represented by the Feds.


So is Bradley Manning.
 
2013-04-21 10:53:09 PM  

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


It makes me wonder why people like that are proud of America and proud to be Americans.  I mean, if they think that America should strip rights from people and torture them, how can they be proud of that?  On the other hand, when I hear about people like you, who put yourself in danger, yet still maintain your principled American standards...that why I'm proud of America and proud to be American.  Thank you!
 
2013-04-21 10:53:50 PM  

cretinbob: It's amazing what you can learn here if you pay attention. Some people actually know things here.


Now you're just making shiat up.
 
2013-04-21 10:54:23 PM  

awalkingecho: skullkrusher: that's bizarre. Especially here on Nuclearphysiciststalkaboutthenews.com

Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot I was viewing this article from the mirror site, everyonesanarmchairexpertoneverything.fark.com


i163.photobucket.com

You're an armchair!

 
2013-04-21 10:54:42 PM  

jaytkay: saturn badger: He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.

He did a good job of escaping a gunfight in view of half a dozen police.


I actually really want to know how the hell that happened. Are the BPD bad shots and this looked like an 80s GIJOE cartoon or did these guys somehow have the best luck in the world?

/there may be truth to the BPD being bad shots
//apparently, their budget has been cut so much that they can only go to the range for training once a year
 
2013-04-21 10:55:51 PM  

Tatsuma: ... I wasn't being rude


Calling someone's simple question 'bullshiat' is rude among normal people.
 
2013-04-21 10:56:38 PM  
What a tragedy. If only these two brothers had had religion in their lives.
 
2013-04-21 10:57:00 PM  
I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?
 
2013-04-21 10:57:19 PM  

neenerist: Sorry, that made me LoL. If the goverment is permitted to twist kitchen appliances into WMDs, you have much greater worries than a couple of crazy Chechens.


You have no idea what a WMD is, do you? From wikipedia:

For the purposes of US Law, weapons of mass destruction are defined as
- any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses
- any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life
- any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector
- any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life

The Federal Bureau of Investigation's definition is similar to that presented above from the terrorism statute:

- any explosive or incendiary device: bomb, grenade, rocket, missile, mine or other decices with a charge of more than four ounces
- any weapons designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through release, dissemination or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors
- any weapons involving a disease organism
- any weapon designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life
- any device or weapon designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury by causing a malfunction of or destruction of an aircraft or other vehicle that carries humans or of an aircraft or other vehicle whose malfunction or destruction may cause said aircraft or other vehicle to cause death or serious bodily injury to humans who may be within range of the vector in its course of travel or the travel of its debris.

Meaning a pipe bomb or cactus needles coated with butolin toxic would be considered WMDs
 
2013-04-21 10:57:36 PM  

Tanukis_Parachute: I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?


Poorly?
 
2013-04-21 10:57:54 PM  

NewportBarGuy: awalkingecho: HotWingAgenda: I've seen people deny the theory of evolution, but that was the first time I've seen a denial of the laws of thermodynamics.

I was going to protest him but he's either trolling or literally too dumb to understand fission or fusion, so I figured it would be a waste of bandwidth.

[i35.tinypic.com image 570x240]

When I was twelve, I helped my daddy build a bomb shelter in our basement because some fool parked a dozen warheads 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Well, this thing could park a coupla hundred warheads off Washington and New York and no one would know anything about it till it was all over.


god damn you.  now im gonna have to go and rewatch THfRO
 
2013-04-21 10:58:24 PM  

itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.


A WMD is defined, for legal purposes, as "any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses."

I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.
 
2013-04-21 10:58:27 PM  

Mugato: What the shiat, man?


Cancer survivor with a trach, giving some anti-smoking PSA that runs on the air at least in IL.
 
2013-04-21 10:58:31 PM  

Tanukis_Parachute: I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?


He was unarmed when he was in custody because he left the gun in the boat/threw it overboard first before he surrendered willingly
 
2013-04-21 10:59:55 PM  
Great post xyphoid.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:29 PM  

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


Could be:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a

My understanding is bombs count for purposes of this law, but ain't sure.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:42 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


So he can be sent to gitmo for some cawk meat sammiches.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:43 PM  
Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.
 
2013-04-21 11:00:55 PM  

Weaver95: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

I don't think we're gonna care about a confession.  we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.  he might get a show trial of some sort but he's a dead man walking and i'm sure he knows it.

Well I just got a warm and fuzzy, here.

I don't.  I mean if we're going to bother having laws and rights and all that stuff, then they should apply to even idiots like this guy.  Because if we strip him of his rights then we can strip the rights away from ANYONE.  I hope this ends up in criminal court and not a military tribunal.  that would be a very very bad precedent.




Agree 100%. Any time you violate or propose to violate the rights of another citizen, you are creating a rod for your own back.

Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due time - that's good enough for me and it should be good enough for the civilized world. Or else, just why the hell do we suppose to be better than these terrorist pukes.
 
2013-04-21 11:01:09 PM  

jaytkay: saturn badger: People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such.

Lighten up. Non-lawyers are not using proper legal terms. It happens.


Aside from the quote I didn't say sure. I'll let everyone use the improper terms as much as they like but is does clarify the conversation.

/carry on
 
2013-04-21 11:01:10 PM  

Tatsuma: Meaning a pipe bomb or cactus needles coated with butolin toxic would be considered WMDs


WHEN ARE WE GOING TO BAN PRICKLY PEARS AND DENTED CANS?! HOW LONG MUST THIS GO ON?!
 
2013-04-21 11:01:14 PM  

rkiller1: Or shooting his own brains out.


FWIW, I heard a news report today saying he may have "self-inflicted" wounds. It mentioned that one of the bullet wounds was in "the head/neck area" so it could be that he tried to do just what you posited.
 
2013-04-21 11:01:42 PM  
Regarding reading him his Miranda Rights, I believe the worst that could happen would be that they wouldn't be able to use anything he tells them against him in court. But since they have photos, and possibly video, of him planting one of the bombs, it doesn't really matter what he does or doesn't tell them. He's spending the rest of his life in prison. The only question is how long that life lasts.
 
2013-04-21 11:02:58 PM  

ISO15693: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

for CHARGES?


sure, at least temporarily.  Hey, if they think that's a deal-killer for their moving here, I can respect that.
 
2013-04-21 11:03:02 PM  

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice what I preach, even in the shiat.


De-lurking for the sole purpose of saying: "thank you, reasonable human person".
 
2013-04-21 11:03:13 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Regarding reading him his Miranda Rights, I believe the worst that could happen would be that they wouldn't be able to use anything he tells them against him in court. But since they have photos, and possibly video, of him planting one of the bombs, it doesn't really matter what he does or doesn't tell them. He's spending the rest of his life in prison. The only question is how long that life lasts.


And it's only before they tell him about his miranda rights anyway, which most likely has happened by now, so it's not like we won't be able to know anything until ten
 
2013-04-21 11:03:27 PM  

ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.


I get the feeling right now the police/FBI/etc just want to know who ELSE they should be looking for.
 
2013-04-21 11:03:55 PM  

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.


I don't think you have to worry about that. Him walking? Not a chance.
 
2013-04-21 11:04:35 PM  
Xypho:Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


THIS. If I could, I would shake your hand, Sir.. That sums up EXACTLY what I feel, especially after reading a lot of these "lynch mob mentality" posts.
/Lost my MOM on 9/11
//Didnt want blood
 
2013-04-21 11:04:38 PM  

somedude210: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: He's so full of drugs it doesn't matter whether he got his Miranda warning. State courts would not consider a confession under the circumstances to be voluntary.

It doesn't say whether or not he's being interrogated.  It does say he's "not in any condition to be interrogated."  They might just be asking things like "Do you need any pillows" or whatever.

Then again, they might not be.

I believe they're trying to get confirmation that there are no more bombs somewhere in the city. Hence why his Miranda rights were not given


Also, if he's on enough painkillers, reading him his Miranda rights might be pointless.

When I sold insurance, if someone where drunk or on drugs, I could not sell them insurance since the documents were considered contracts.  I'd imagine the same rules would be in place for who reading someone their rights.  Wouldn't want some defense lawyer arguing that because he wasn't of sound mind when his rights were read he was unaware of them.
 
2013-04-21 11:04:46 PM  

comslave: Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.


so torture used by the US is good but torture used by anyone else is bad?
 
2013-04-21 11:05:31 PM  
Some roaches run and hide. Some roaches dissemble and hide in plain view. Some roaches get caught and interrogated. Now, for some reason,more running and dissembling roaches are going to be caught and interrogated than prior to the events of this year's Boston marathon. Roach infestashuns kan be nasti.
 
2013-04-21 11:06:33 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.

A WMD is defined, for legal purposes, as "any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses."

I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.


Great! So my ass is a weapon of mass destruction when I eat at Taco Bell!?
 
2013-04-21 11:06:53 PM  

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.



No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.

Plus, right now, mirandizing him wouldn't do any good because his lawyer could always claim that any confession he gives would be groundless because he was heavily medicated and not in his right mind.

When he is out of the hospital and booked into jail, he will be mirandized and questioned. It's not that hard to understand. Unfortunately, people are freaking out because reality isn't playing out like a cop show.
 
2013-04-21 11:06:59 PM  
We should force him to watch the Khardasians over and over.
 
2013-04-21 11:07:02 PM  
Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.
 
2013-04-21 11:07:11 PM  

Tanukis_Parachute: I've heard both...that he did have a firearm and openned fired on the officers when he was in the boat and i have heard that when he was taken into custody that he was unarmed.

which one was it? if he was unarmed...how did he try and kill himself by shooting himself in the throat?


You had a lot of guys with their fingers on the trigger. I'm betting that they heard/saw the attempted suicide shot and unleashed holy hell. Pour lead to neutralize. Pretty much SOP. He survived. Have not seen a single report that he fired at them from the boat. It would be a sh*tty vantage for him. Ever been in a covered boat in a backyard at night? You can't see sh*t.
 
2013-04-21 11:07:54 PM  

BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.


Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.
 
2013-04-21 11:07:56 PM  
There are so many victims here. Think of the poor widow. She converted to Islam. We should all chip in and pay for her to relocate to Saudi Arabia so she can enjoy the support of her Muslim brothers and sisters.
 
2013-04-21 11:08:30 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.


You know who else wasn't tried?
 
2013-04-21 11:09:16 PM  

jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?


He was outside the convenience store that got robbed, I thought?  Not sure why they shot him, though.  Maybe they thought he saw and recognized them?

HideAndGoFarkYourself: I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.


Yeah, I see that now from the earlier cite too, but FWIW that's not how the term originated. It's just already been watered down to mean that in US law.  (Which I have a problem with, and no one cares, I get it. :))  Personally I find it interesting that guns are so nicely exempted though if they're gonna go that far.

I mean, what if these two killers had decided to pick people off with rifles as they crossed the finish line?
 
2013-04-21 11:09:23 PM  
What's his fark account?
 
2013-04-21 11:09:29 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.


Even if the case weren't all but surely ironclad... 

Do you think in such an emotionally-charged case, with all of the drama that happened in the shutting down of Boston, there's a jury that wouldn't convict him? They might as well prance him into the courtroom and then send the jury to deliberate.
 
2013-04-21 11:09:43 PM  
Sadly, this POS was granted citizenship, which means that he is afforded all rights that belong to a citizen of the USA.  You know how much it will end up costing the taxpayers to hold, try, convict and punish this POS?
But, in a (so called) civilized society, that is the price we pay.  I just hope the powers to be don't try an end run around the 5th amendment, and "wave" said freedoms, "due to the nature of the crime".  They already have illegally bypassed so many laws for "the war on terrorism" (homeland security, no warrant wiretapping and on and on), to them, what's another one, "in the need for security".
 
2013-04-21 11:09:46 PM  

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Thank you.
 
2013-04-21 11:09:48 PM  
Kyrgyzstan has inferior potassium.
 
2013-04-21 11:09:54 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.


When this blows over, all the ITGs can go back to whargarbling about needing moar guns to overthrow tyranny.
 
2013-04-21 11:09:59 PM  
Get well soon, shiathead, so we can put your stupid ass on trial.
 
2013-04-21 11:10:58 PM  

jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?


They shot him because shots were fired from the boat.  After reading some articles today, it appears he shot himself, but police probably thought he was shooting at them.
 
2013-04-21 11:11:16 PM  

Weaver95: comslave: Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.

so torture used by the US is good but torture used by anyone else is bad?


Yeah, Sherman said it best:

Only those who've never seen it cry for more.
 
2013-04-21 11:11:22 PM  

DoctorCal: ArcadianRefugee: Is this the thread where we all state what punishment we hope befalls someone who hasn't even been tried yet?

Oh, good.

When this blows over, all the ITGs can go back to whargarbling about needing moar guns to overthrow tyranny.


Don't worry, in Oregon this month two children have been shot dead.

I don't know of any murderers shot dead in Oregon this month.
 
2013-04-21 11:11:26 PM  

doglover: Great! So my ass is a weapon of mass destruction when I eat at Taco Bell!?


...H2S gas? Hell yeah!
 
2013-04-21 11:13:08 PM  

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


*check profile*

You're probably reading this because I've blown your mind with some salient point that you disagree with, and were probably hoping to find out something here to discredit me.

I checked it because you actually made sense. Another sane voice out here in farkland. You have a lot of wisdom for a young 'un.

/and a favorite now
 
2013-04-21 11:13:35 PM  

puffy999: I don't know of any murderers shot dead in Oregon this month.


Well if they were shot dead, they'd have no trial. So they wouldn't be murders yet, to the letter of the law, now would they?

/rights cut both ways
 
2013-04-21 11:14:21 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Can someone here please explain why stripping him of his citizenship is so important?


So he can be sent to Gitmo. Because Jesus. And the Constitution. No citizenship means no trial, and thus we can all sleep safer. Because trials will only make us less safe. And he can't be sent to prison, because...terrorism. And Jesus. We can only send God Fearing Christians to prison, because if you send a Muslim to prison, they just grow more powerful, and thus, to avoid a Super Muslim power level. What stymies us is that so many people turn to Islam while in prison, but luckily, by feeding them Pork'N Beans secretly, we can bleed off the Muslim Prison Effect. And because then we can just deport him, after we leave him in Gitmo for a few decades, and...and...oh feck it...

Yeah. It doesn't really matter. For criminal purposes, even non-citizens have the same rights. Administratively, that is a slightly different matter, for staying in the country, and essentially, it is a move by the pants besh*tted who lack any faith in our judicial system, and who imagine that our courts would be just sullied by trying folks who did bad things. Or have vivid imaginations about what folks could do to a prisoner without any citizenship and some very dark fantasies. Non-citizens may not be allowed to see all the evidence against them, and that is an exception that was made sort of recently.

I find it interesting that folks who have screamed loud and long about the Second Amendment, seem to really dislike the First, and now the 5th and 6th. The Gub'ment is coming for their guns, but when it comes to folks they don't like, then freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and all the rest are just so much excess that we can't fit into their pontoon liferaft...
 
2013-04-21 11:15:24 PM  

Weaver95: comslave: Let's hope he also responds to thumbscrews and waterboarding.

And the pear.

so torture used by the US is good but torture used by anyone else is bad?


Yes.  Because AMERICA - F*CK YEAH!!1!
 
2013-04-21 11:15:45 PM  

doglover: HideAndGoFarkYourself: itazurakko: jaytkay: He can be charged by the Feds, just like the 1993 WTC bombers and McVeigh. The news is describing the possible Federal charge as "use of a weapon of mass destruction to kill people".

...which is ludicrous.  It was a pressure cooker bomb.  That is not a weapon of mass destruction.

I don't doubt they'll try for it though.

A WMD is defined, for legal purposes, as "any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses."

I know the talking heads always refer to them in the context of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, but that's not how the courts define them.  A strict reading of the definition shows that these people did use a WMD in Boston.

Great! So my ass is a weapon of mass destruction when I eat at Taco Bell!?


I ate corned beef and sauerkraut for dinner, so right now I'm going off like an automatic weapon.

/Multiple rounds per "trigger pull"
 
2013-04-21 11:17:02 PM  
Apparently "weapons of mass distruction" has a different meaning in the US then the rest of the world since 2006.  That explains a lot.

The kid will face a fair trail, justice is not simply about arresting and charging someone.  The healing process requires justice, not a lynch mob.
 
2013-04-21 11:17:04 PM  
What I envision his trial to be like

images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-04-21 11:18:06 PM  
First thing I thought of...no one else???
www.chud.com
 
2013-04-21 11:18:30 PM  

LordOfThePings: Oh, good, now we can all focus on their motivations like they matter.

They don't.


Why not?
 
2013-04-21 11:19:48 PM  

jaytkay: saturn badger: He seems incompetent all the way around except setting a back pack down.

He did a good job of escaping a gunfight in view of half a dozen police.


Well, there is that.

Ok, two things. Your point.
 
2013-04-21 11:20:20 PM  

popesballs: Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due time


No. He got life.
 
2013-04-21 11:21:04 PM  

saturn badger: BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.

Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.


Yes, that is correct, criminal and civil courts are very different. Civi (no L) does not mean civil (has an L), though - civi (no L) is slang for civilian. So a "civi court" (no L) means either state or federal criminal court.
 
2013-04-21 11:21:27 PM  

Ranger Rover: Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

Could be:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a

My understanding is bombs count for purposes of this law, but ain't sure.


Simply by using a bomb gives the feds the option to step in.  They don't have to, but the option is there.
 
2013-04-21 11:21:59 PM  

popesballs: Agree 100%. Any time you violate or propose to violate the rights of another citizen, you are creating a rod for your own back.


Never in my life heard this phrase used before, but agree one hundred percent with the sentiment.
 
2013-04-21 11:22:51 PM  

quatchi: I don't think Hallmark even makes a card for this occasion.

Get Well Soon ...so we can try you in a court of law and send your blood thirsty little punkass to PMITA prison for the rest of your miserable farked up life!


Federal charges, Federal death penalty.
No state bullshiat. He killed 5 playing terrorist.
 
2013-04-21 11:23:34 PM  

awalkingecho: Well if they were shot dead, they'd have no trial.


Well since we're being technical, there have been many people convicted of murder released from jail or prison in their lives.
 
2013-04-21 11:23:35 PM  

Braggi: We should force him to watch the Khardasians over and over.


Cruel and unusual.

*I like it.*
 
2013-04-21 11:25:03 PM  

BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.


Then we could make everything a "terror" offense then we can kick out all the brown people then we can just get rid of civil rights altogether.

/that might be a very stupid idea
 
2013-04-21 11:25:15 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Great post xyphoid.


Yeah
 
2013-04-21 11:25:18 PM  

BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.

Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.

Yes, that is correct, criminal and civil courts are very different. Civi (no L) does not mean civil (has an L), though - civi (no L) is slang for civilian. So a "civi court" (no L) means either state or federal criminal court.


Such as you might find in a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich.
 
2013-04-21 11:26:00 PM  

saturn badger: puffy999: Shove a mercury thermometer up his dick and have someone smash it with a hammer.

Wow. That is harsh, dude, harsh.


I was going to suggest Gregory Hines tapdance on it, but he's dead.
 
2013-04-21 11:26:29 PM  

Lsherm: jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?

They shot him because shots were fired from the boat.  After reading some articles today, it appears he shot himself, but police probably thought he was shooting at them.


No, I asked how the MIT cop came across them, and why did they shoot the MIT cop?

Someone suggested the cop was at the 7-11 but I looked and he was shot elsewhere. MAP
 
2013-04-21 11:26:55 PM  

puffy999: awalkingecho: Well if they were shot dead, they'd have no trial.

Well since we're being technical, there have been many people convicted of murder released from jail or prison in their lives.


I'll meet you in the middle on that one and we'll call it a wash.
 
2013-04-21 11:27:08 PM  

stoli n coke: No. Despite the concern trolling from various sites, the police have not read him his rights because they have not interrogated him yet. All reading his rights will do is make his statements admissible in court. Right now, if they haven't read him his rights, all that means is that anything he says tonight can't be used at trial.


Not actually true.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest
 
2013-04-21 11:28:38 PM  

Tatsuma: You have no idea what a WMD is, do you?


You have no idea that doesn't change the point, do you? BTW, how old are those definitons? Care to guess?
 
2013-04-21 11:29:02 PM  

jaytkay: Lsherm: jaytkay: Actually I haven't heard any mention of how he came across them, either. Why did they shoot him?

They shot him because shots were fired from the boat.  After reading some articles today, it appears he shot himself, but police probably thought he was shooting at them.

No, I asked how the MIT cop came across them, and why did they shoot the MIT cop?

Someone suggested the cop was at the 7-11 but I looked and he was shot elsewhere. MAP


Oh, beats the hell out of me.  Maybe he had an ID of the car and chased them?
 
2013-04-21 11:30:25 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?


What kind of a stupid question is that? We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen. Whether he is evil or not is what the courts are there to decide.
 
2013-04-21 11:30:56 PM  

Weaver95: we're just gonna strip him of his rights, torture the f*ck outta him, and then kill him.


Just as soon as we can bring this guy back to life so we can hire him to do the job. After all, he taught the CIA everything it knows.

www.bitsofnews.com
 
2013-04-21 11:31:05 PM  

Sliding Carp: Weaver95: Snapper Carr: SlothB77: they don't need a confession, they got enough on him already.  they want to know motive and any other accomplices.

Seemingly airtight evidence is ruled inadmissible every day in the US legal system for a variety of reasons. If they have a fully Mirandized confession (preferably with his attorney in the room), that just solidifies the case against him further.

I think it's safe to say that the rules are gonna get suspended twisted into whatever shape the gubmint wants on this one.


The U.S. Government is very good at twisting laws to meet their needs.
 
2013-04-21 11:31:19 PM  

Gyrfalcon: We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen.


We should go by the rules anyway.
 
2013-04-21 11:31:37 PM  

starsrift: saturn badger: jaytkay: saturn badger: Gyrfalcon: This is a civilcriminal matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.

FTFY

People are using "civil" meaning "civilian" Everybody understands this is a criminal matter.

Then they should use the proper terminology. Civil in my mind means suits and such. Even civilian does not convey criminal. What is a civilian court? All I can find is it is not a military court but mostly goog tells me it is a civil and not a criminal court. There is a distinct difference.

Don't be silly, they still wear suits in criminal courts.


Also, there are civilian courts where both criminal and civil actions are heard. Not sure about military courts and civil procedings, b ut I suppose it's possible.
 
2013-04-21 11:31:47 PM  

neenerist: You have no idea that doesn't change the point, do you? BTW, how old are those definitons? Care to guess?


Rather recent, and that's how they are still prosecuted today.

You made a stupid post, everyone agrees that an IED inside a pressure cooker is a WMD under the legal definition, just move, stop digging.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:12 PM  
Could he be stripped of his citizenship? After all, he's only been a citizen since September 11, 2012.

If they prove that he and his brothers had been planning this beforehand, could they say that he lied when he took the oath, and therefore strip it from him?
 
2013-04-21 11:33:24 PM  

Gyrfalcon: BrieBelle00: ZAZ: BrieBelle00

Military court is not plausible based on what we know now. Military court is very unlikely even if we learn he was a member of a foreign-directed terrorist group against which the President is authorized to use military force. He's a United States citizen caught in the United States after committing a crime within the United States.

The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

Oh, I completely agree with you - I thought the dimwits in Congress were still trying to get it moved to the Military Courts.

Why would either military or federal court be an option (except that the chickenhawks in Congress want it)? He was arrested by Boston PD, in Boston, for killing American civilians in a purely criminal act. The only reason Tim McVeigh's case was removed to federal court was because of the presence of federal agents at the Murrah Building, and the risk of his being unable to get a fair trial in Oklahoma state court.

This is a civil matter. There's no reason to bump it up a notch unless the Massachusetts DA decides he wants to.


Actually, due to the Organized Crime Control Act, 18 U.S.C.A. 841-848, which places bombings under federal jurisdiction, you're wrong on this account *and* OKC.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:29 PM  
The shooting of the MIT cop happened shortly after the 7/11 but yeah, turns out not even near it?  That really is extra WTF.

Who's the fifth murder victim, though?  Brother doesn't count, surely? (It's going to take an autopsy to even determine what killed him among the vast amount of choice injuries.)  They got three at the marathon, plus the MIT cop, almost killed the transit cop but he was saved, it seems like.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:51 PM  

Voiceofreason01: BravadoGT: The simple solution to this is to make the citizenship of naturalized aliens revokable upon arrest for terror-related charges.

Then we could make everything a "terror" offense then we can kick out all the brown people then we can just get rid of civil rights altogether.

/that might be a very stupid idea


I doubt this particular complaint would bear out; I don't see courts being amenable to that for white collar crimes, domestic or drug-related murder, etc, it's a slippery slope argument that reality wouldn't bear out. But as for stretching the boundaries of things like bank robbery, domestic mass murder like Newtown, etc, it's definitely a worry.

The bigger worry is setting the precedent for different classes of American citizens. I think one or the other, either you're a citizen or you're not, is the way to go. Introducing variable classes of citizenship is the hallmark of scary governments everywhere.
 
2013-04-21 11:33:55 PM  

hubiestubert: I find it interesting that folks who have screamed loud and long about the Second Amendment, seem to really dislike the First, and now the 5th and 6th.


Well, holding books and warrants and shiat doesn't make you look like a bad-ass the way holding a gun does!

and ain't no speedy trial gonna save us from tyranny!!
 
2013-04-21 11:34:25 PM  

BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?


Um why would this be a miltary court?
 
2013-04-21 11:35:36 PM  

Gyrfalcon: AliceBToklasLives: ka1axy: Give him the best medical care possible (Boston is a great place for that) and a fair trial. Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty.

I think he would prefer to get the federal death penalty than life in a state prison.  He killed a child.  That will make him very unpopular among the general prison population.

Great Janitor:
As for making it federal, it depends on how terrorism is viewed by the courts.  If he is classified as a terrorist, that could bump him up to the Federal level.

Of course they will classify his case as terrorism and make it a federal case.  Good test of our nation = do we bend the rules 'cause the guy's evil, or do we go by the book based solely on the fact that we are talking about a U.S. citizen?

What kind of a stupid question is that? We go by the rules based on the fact that he is a US citizen. Whether he is evil or not is what the courts are there to decide.

Anwar Al-Awlaki  says no, definitely not, from beyond the grave.

 
2013-04-21 11:36:38 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Relatively Obscure: ZAZ: So no. 180+ people injured is not remotely "mass" in the sense of "weapons of mass destruction."

For purposes of federal criminal law, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes any "destructive device." 18 USC 2332a. A "destructive device" includes any bomb, grenade, rocket with more than four ounces of propellant, and any projectile launcher with a caliber over .50 inches (except for Attorney General approved shotguns). 18 USC 921. A potato gun is a weapon of mass destruction, if "designed for use as a weapon" and used against a U.S. national.

Oh yeah?  Well, the law also says that "mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form."

So weapons of mass destruction don't exist anywhere!

Actually, a nuclear bomb converts mass into radiation and energy, so technically it would destroy mass.


Energy still has mass... thats that pesky E=mc² thing...
 
2013-04-21 11:36:43 PM  

Tatsuma: neenerist: You have no idea that doesn't change the point, do you? BTW, how old are those definitons? Care to guess?

Rather recent, and that's how they are still prosecuted today.

You made a stupid post, everyone agrees that an IED inside a pressure cooker is a WMD under the legal definition, just move, stop digging.


That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.
 
2013-04-21 11:37:14 PM  

Lsherm: ZAZ: The real question is state court (life without parole) or federal court (death).

They used a bomb.  That makes it federal.  I suppose they could charge him in both jurisdictions, but I think the feds would take the lead.


I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state.  McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level.  But this incident was purely done inside a single state.
 
2013-04-21 11:37:50 PM  

dr_blasto: Simply confusing mass with energy.


Or is he confusing mass with matter?
 
2013-04-21 11:38:00 PM  
Here a potential completely under the table plea deal: Death penaly, or Death penalty. Cooperate, and he gets the Death Penalty..at a Supermax, where he will be protected and get good treatment through years and years of appeals.  Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.
 
2013-04-21 11:38:40 PM  
When they charge him, they should charge him with his brother's murder as well... after all, he drove over him...

//slap to his face
 
2013-04-21 11:39:01 PM  

itazurakko: The shooting of the MIT cop happened shortly after the 7/11 but yeah, turns out not even near it?  That really is extra WTF.

Who's the fifth murder victim, though?  Brother doesn't count, surely? (It's going to take an autopsy to even determine what killed him among the vast amount of choice injuries.)  They got three at the marathon, plus the MIT cop, almost killed the transit cop but he was saved, it seems like.


Reliable sources say he ran over his brother while the police were handcuffing said  brother. Yeah, it's five.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:17 PM  

Bisu: Or is he confusing mass with matter?


Like Jonestown?
 
2013-04-21 11:39:17 PM  

Coastalgrl: Didnt go through the entire thread but is there a chance that because his Miranda rights were not read, that this guy could walk?

As much as I want to see him in a maximum security prison and expect that to be the outcome, the ACLU president in the article has a point. If we change our laws in this manner, then the terrorists really have won.


If they let him walk, he wouldn't live more than a day.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:22 PM  

Warlordtrooper: BrieBelle00: I wonder what they're asking him at this point... has it been for-sure decided where he'll be tried, yet (military or civi court)?

Um why would this be a miltary court?


Apparently the thought makes ITGs feel manly.  They get chubbies over the idea of bravely denying the guy his rights.  And the thought he might be tortured gets them giddy.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:55 PM  

Xyphoid: Pretty disturbing reading how many people want him tortured and/or extrajudicially punished, or just plain wishing suffering upon him.

My opinion, as an American, is I want him afforded every right I'd expect myself as an American.  Those rights and the treatment we espouse to be sacred are a significant portion of what makes our country better than many others.  As well, my country claims to stand against, and has hung people for, torture/"enhanced interrogation"/increasing suffering (even through inaction).  In that regard I also believe any intentional suffering caused upon someone in custody is a crime that should be punished, as is the opinion of the legal system* (*- sadly, your mileage may vary).

My opinion in regard to my faith and as a human being is that no unnecessary suffering (excluding any pain due to life-saving or life-maintaining actions) should come to him,  even though I believe he likely did it (to the effect I'd have to sit out of a jury).  I also believe that he shouldn't be sentenced to death unless his continued existence, no matter what actions we could possibly undertake, would still pose a threat to innocent life.

Some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Whatever this persons motivations were, you wishing those kinds of things upon him, suggesting you'd be ambivalent to them happening, or wishing you could do it yourself makes you the same kind of person you believe this fellow to be.  You don't think terrorists have their own justification, like you, for thinking their actions (or willingness to cause suffering) as right?

/Two Iraq deployments for a year and a half
//Despite being shot at, fellow soldiers injured and killed, poisoned, threatened, insulted and knowing that if I was captured that terrible things would be done to me, 100% of any prisoners or suspects I had control of were treated like human beings.  Not just because of my beliefs, but that's how decent and civilized human beings roll.
///So yeah, I can practice ...


Bless your heart for writing this. Regardless of what drove him to these acts, we must still maintain some semblance of morality. To the farker who was upset he was getting medical treatment, physicians are healers, and one of their duties is to "never do harm", no matter who their patient is.
 
2013-04-21 11:39:59 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.


Guess what, the legal definition of WMDs on American soil has nothing to do with the international agreed definition when it comes to warfare.

Two bombs filled with nails that kill 3 and injure 170+ while causing widespread destruction sure sound like 'weapons of mass destruction' to me. Just because they didn't kill more doesn't negate the fact.

Might as well say that dirty bombs are not WMDs because they don't kill people immediately, just makes them sick.
 
2013-04-21 11:41:32 PM  

incrdbil: Fail to cooperate, and he gets a Death Sentence in general population at the prison with the largest Aryan Brotherhood concentration that can be found.


Do you really want him to get off for cruel and unusual punishment?
 
2013-04-21 11:42:12 PM  

sirrerun: popesballs: Timothy Mcveigh? Terry Nichols? We executed those farkers in due time

No. He got life.


We're just executing him real slooooow.

/sarcasm off
 
2013-04-21 11:42:58 PM  

Tatsuma: Samwise Gamgee: That legal definition means that the US military uses 'weapons of mass destruction' all the time, then, as your typical hand grenade, claymore, or the bombs we drop from planes will do as much or much more damage.

Guess what, the legal definition of WMDs on American soil has nothing to do with the international agreed definition when it comes to warfare.

Two bombs filled with nails that kill 3 and injure 170+ while causing widespread destruction sure sound like 'weapons of mass destruction' to me. Just because they didn't kill more doesn't negate the fact.

Might as well say that dirty bombs are not WMDs because they don't kill people immediately, just makes them sick.


So you are a lawyer! Damn.
 
2013-04-21 11:43:06 PM  

Tatsuma: Could he be stripped of his citizenship? After all, he's only been a citizen since September 11, 2012.

If they prove that he and his brothers had been planning this beforehand, could they say that he lied when he took the oath, and therefore strip it from him?


Even if he IS stripped of his citizenship, he can still be put on trial.

Ramzi Yousef-Captured in Pakistan, convicted for role in Bojinka plot in 1996, convicted for role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence.

Wali Khan Amin Shah-Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Abdul Hakim Ali Hashim Murad - Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Eyad Ismoil - Captured in Amman, extradited to US, convicted of role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Khalfan Khamis Mohamed-Captured in Cape Town, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mahmud Abouhalima-Captured in Egypt, convicted of 1993 WTC bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali-Convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Odeh-Captured in Karachi, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed A. Salameh-Convicted of involvement in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Ali Hassan Al-Moayad-Captured in Germany, convicted of federal crimes related to funding Hamas, sent to ADX Florence


Apparently, Colorado hasn't disappeared in a geyser of radioactive vapor from all the pure EVIL concentrated there...
 
2013-04-21 11:43:30 PM  

BrieBelle00: saturn badger: BrieBelle00: In the military we referred to anything civilian as 'civi' (no L on the end); so it was military or civilian court, not civil court.

Having not been in the military I have a different view on it. I have been adjusted up thread but I still think there is a distinction between civil and criminal. A very important one. One does not get prison time in a civil court.

Yes, that is correct, criminal and civil courts are very different. Civi (no L) does not mean civil (has an L), though - civi (no L) is slang for civilian. So a "civi court" (no L) means either state or federal criminal court.


And that was the point I was trying to make here but got chastised for it. Whatever. This is like Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average and every farker is an expert at everything.

But it is in the details sometimes. Sometimes it pays to argue a point to maybe, just maybe, educate someone. Doesn't work much here for many but I admit many have taught me things in various threads. Others are facepalm.jpg.

But I do enjoy it sometimes just for its... fill in your own description. ;)
 
2013-04-21 11:43:45 PM  

torquestripe: Reliable sources say he ran over his brother while the police were handcuffing said  brother. Yeah, it's five.


But the brother may have already been doomed.  He was pretty full of holes already.

Anyway if they're counting him as 5 though, that answers my question.
 
2013-04-21 11:44:41 PM  

Warlordtrooper: I was under the impression that the feds don't have jurisdiction to regulate anything that doesn't travel out of state. McVeigh bombed a federal building which is why he was tried at the federal level. But this incident was purely done inside a single state.


Lots of crimes are Federal. Bank robbers and counterfeiters are tried in Federal court for example.

Here is a list somebody provided earlier in the thread - 48 crimes that can get you executed by the Feds:
Federal Laws Providing for the Death Penalty
 
2013-04-21 11:45:19 PM  

torquestripe: So you are a lawyer! Damn.


Law degree comes with the Bar Mitzvah commemorative kippah

hubiestubert: Even if he IS stripped of his citizenship, he can still be put on trial.


Oh yeah no doubt about it, I just meant in a general sense. I imagine that stripping him of his citizenship (and a case could easily be made for it) would make things even easier for the federal government.

Though, with the Democrats in power and the immigration reform bill they want to pass, I doubt they'll go that route.