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(WBRZ Baton Rouge)   How to raise test scores at a failing school? Move all the smart kids there... Duh   (wbrz.com) divider line 63
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4307 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 6:21 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-21 03:52:02 PM
Spiffy?
If the tests exist to measure schools' performance, wouldn't moving the gifted kids to the failing school mean they would now receive worse instruction, diminishing their chances at being successful or doing something extraordinary with their lives, and the eventual idiocracy-ing of the world just to manipulate the results of the test?
I know, thatsthejoke.jpg, but seriously. Jesus Christ.
 
2013-04-21 04:10:56 PM
This is a very common measure in the world of education. When monies received are based on average testing scores, administrators will just around student populations to raise averages. It is one of the major complaints leveled at No Child Left Behind more than a decade ago. Politicians decried the complaint as idiocy because no administrator or politician would blatantly do harm to the educational process of our children, right?

Right?!

Like all things during the black years of Bush Jr's rein, all actions were taken with little thought to the effect on the future and the assumption that all the people involved were morally superior to Jesus.

These, not surprisingly, were also Reagan's mistakes.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-21 04:41:35 PM
Around here they also look at scores by group. If your poor, black, hispanic, transgender retards are doing poorly, your school is doing poorly. Bringing in a bunch of rich, white, male math genuises won't save it.
 
2013-04-21 06:26:33 PM
"...and the eventual idiocracy-ing..."

your assumption is that we are not already there, I only have watched about 20 min of idiocracy but it is what I experience day to day.

It's already to late.

Have fun
 
2013-04-21 06:28:39 PM

albatros183: I only have watched about 20 min of idiocracy


This is the most baffling statement I have read in a very long time.
 
2013-04-21 06:30:05 PM
I found out recently that the reason our local elementary school hasn't been doing as well in the tests the last few years is that it was their turn for the "at-risk kids" - those who had behavior problems that had already gotten them kicked out of other schools. The school district apparently moves that group around every few years so no particular school gets a reputation. I can't decide if that's terrible or brilliant. Probably both.
 
2013-04-21 06:31:04 PM
Beats closing the failing school and moving all the dummies into the good one.  95 G&T kids took a hit for the team.
 
2013-04-21 06:33:07 PM
redistribution of knowledge
 
2013-04-21 06:33:40 PM

albatros183: "...and the eventual idiocracy-ing..."

your assumption is that we are not already there, I only have watched about 20 min of idiocracy but it is what I experience day to day.

It's already to late.

Have fun


I hope your gud at maths.
 
2013-04-21 06:33:45 PM

albatros183: It's already to late.


Heh
 
2013-04-21 06:34:32 PM
Moving kids who pay attention in school to a place where they just babysit the unteachable will only get them beaten up on the playground. What the hell are they smoking down there?
 
2013-04-21 06:34:35 PM
Public Education - it's like they are not even trying anymore.

Let's move around students to hide our failures.

Do the shuffle....


// and yes, my wife, daughters, and seven other family members are public school teachers.
 
2013-04-21 06:34:39 PM
A lot of students will move out of the district or go to private schools.
 
2013-04-21 06:35:01 PM

PapaChester: This is a very common measure in the world of education. When monies received are based on average testing scores, administrators will just around student populations to raise averages. It is one of the major complaints leveled at No Child Left Behind more than a decade ago. Politicians decried the complaint as idiocy because no administrator or politician would blatantly do harm to the educational process of our children, right?

Right?!

Like all things during the black years of Bush Jr's rein, all actions were taken with little thought to the effect on the future and the assumption that all the people involved were morally superior to Jesus.

These, not surprisingly, were also Reagan's mistakes.


and every other conservative government in existence.
 
2013-04-21 06:37:03 PM

gblive: and yes, my wife, daughters, and seven other family members are public school teachers.


im sory for yor lots
 
2013-04-21 06:37:15 PM
Uh, yes, that's been the strategy for a long time now. In elementary school, I went to one of the worst, lowest income schools in the district, because that's where they put the high achiever immersion program. They did the same for the middle school, too, though I left after elementary school for various reasons and went back in for high school. The high school version is its own school on its own campus, and has been rather hilariously marked as not sufficiently improving by NCLB- because when you start from a point where most students place in the 90+ percentile (at least) on everything, it's hard to meet the law's requirements for progress.

Ah the trials and trevails of an elite high school. Like getting knocked down in the national rankings because of a low AP count, since students are enrolled as full time college students instead in Junior/Senior year. The first worldiest of first world problems.
 
2013-04-21 06:39:41 PM
Since this is Baton Rouge the action is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Moving the smart kids around does nothing to improve the scores of the failing kids. It may, in fact, make things worse because the smart kids may figure out that by deliberately doing bad on the test they won't have to get shuffled around. If the money that went to unions, lawyers, and administrators instead went to the classroom we'd have classrooms that students could actually learn in without having to share books that are falling apart or having teachers pay for common supplies out of their own pockets.

/and superintendents don't need to be making $300k + per year when the teachers are only getting $35k
//school boards should be made up of retired teachers, not people that don't know shiat about education
 
2013-04-21 06:42:46 PM
Why not fire the entire staff at the school, unless they can explain why the school graduates retards? Graduate them or overcrowding happens and grade points drop more.

Lock down the boundaries of the schools(a neighborhood grid that does not allow outlying areas in who already have a school), so to get an actual mix of kids intellect, instead of the mad rush by the helicopter parents trying to put their special little snowflakes in the best school at the moment.

/I've seen at risk kids usually get their own school that is 3 classrooms somewhere and for the most part, teachers don't care if you show up, but prefer you did showup so they don't have to explain again why you get to come back again next year for the exact same course.
 
2013-04-21 06:43:57 PM
We have 2 high schools in our local district - the one hosts the gifted program while the other has the CD program (behavior problems).   While both schools are rated as excellent we still have people saying shiat like "Oh, well THEY have a score 5 index points higher than that other school - I guess the "better" teachers are there blah blah blah:...."

No, dipshiat, if you put the top 5% of the students from the entire district in ONE school it should index... tah dah!  5 points higher.  You explain this to people and they look at you like your speaking Klingon.
 
2013-04-21 06:44:36 PM

DigitalCoffee: Since this is Baton Rouge the action is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Moving the smart kids around does nothing to improve the scores of the failing kids. It may, in fact, make things worse because the smart kids may figure out that by deliberately doing bad on the test they won't have to get shuffled around. If the money that went to unions, lawyers, and administrators instead went to the classroom we'd have classrooms that students could actually learn in without having to share books that are falling apart or having teachers pay for common supplies out of their own pockets.

/and superintendents don't need to be making $300k + per year when the teachers are only getting $35k
//school boards should be made up of retired teachers, not people that don't know shiat about education


This! So much this!
 
2013-04-21 06:44:57 PM

DigitalCoffee: Since this is Baton Rouge the action is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Moving the smart kids around does nothing to improve the scores of the failing kids. It may, in fact, make things worse because the smart kids may figure out that by deliberately doing bad on the test they won't have to get shuffled around. If the money that went to unions, lawyers, and administrators instead went to the classroom we'd have classrooms that students could actually learn in without having to share books that are falling apart or having teachers pay for common supplies out of their own pockets.

/and superintendents don't need to be making $300k + per year when the teachers are only getting $35k
//school boards should be made up of retired teachers, not people that don't know shiat about education


I am a resident of Baton Rouge and a participant in this little... program. Which has been going on for YEARS.
To wit: I have attented a total of 6 different schools, despite being a Gifted student with nary so much as a TOR "in-school suspension" during my whole tenure.

It's purely an effort to help bolster the scores of flagging schools.

Because what they really would like to do is just let the failing kids bomb out and stick them in Juvy when they eventually turn to (petty) crime.

//Ok I don't know about the last part but goddamn it's bad...
 
2013-04-21 06:45:10 PM

AntonSzandorLaVey: If the tests exist to measure schools' performance, wouldn't moving the gifted kids to the failing school mean they would now receive worse instruction, diminishing their chances at being successful or doing something extraordinary with their lives, and the eventual idiocracy-ing of the world just to manipulate the results of the test?


The gifted kids are in self contained classes for the most part, so they won't be in the same classes as the 'regular' kids.  This does in fact simply be a effort to bring up over all test scores.

Here is the PowerPoint in PDF form the school board put out on it.

DrewCurtisJr: A lot of students will move out of the district or go to private schools.


These schools are not on the most prosperous part of town and they are not very far from each other.  Most likely a large portion will follow the program.  If any of the new charter schools that Jindal is pushing pan out, some may opt for that.  I would suspect that most won't be able to afford private school or have the availability of a stay at home parent to home school.
 
2013-04-21 06:46:27 PM
No amount of student-shuffling, teacher salary raises, test score metrics, or administration changes will ever change the underlying cause of poor academic performance: lack of parental interest.

Unless the parents are present and actively interested in their child's scholastic endeavors, public education is just daycare.
 
2013-04-21 06:47:33 PM
So the "gifted" students produced a C-rated school?

/where to start?
 
2013-04-21 06:52:59 PM

edmo: So the "gifted" students produced a C-rated school?

/where to start?


Start with what percentage of the student population was gifted as opposed to mainstream.  This school losing the program was not a completely gifted school, just as the one getting it will not lose any of it current population either.
 
2013-04-21 06:54:45 PM
Magnet programs have been in place for years. Take a school with 'diversity' then find parents naive enough to send their kids there. The gifted kids then smarten the place up. Usually ends up with rape.rape.
 
2013-04-21 06:54:50 PM

DigitalCoffee: Since this is Baton Rouge the action is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Moving the smart kids around does nothing to improve the scores of the failing kids. It may, in fact, make things worse because the smart kids may figure out that by deliberately doing bad on the test they won't have to get shuffled around. If the money that went to unions, lawyers, and administrators instead went to the classroom we'd have classrooms that students could actually learn in without having to share books that are falling apart or having teachers pay for common supplies out of their own pockets.

/and superintendents don't need to be making $300k + per year when the teachers are only getting $35k
//school boards should be made up of retired teachers, not people that don't know shiat about education


While I don't disagree about moving the deck chairs around, teachers in EBR start at around 43.5K for a 9 month employee.  This year there have been quite a few changes in compensation, but starting salary will remain about the same.   The PDF linked is for the current school year.
 
2013-04-21 06:55:06 PM

sheep snorter: Why not fire the entire staff at the school, unless they can explain why the school graduates retards? .


Because we've pretty conclusively proved that that doesn't solve a damn thing?

The problem is rarely with the school- the problem is with the kids and their parents. The pressures of being poor have an effect, some kids come from families and cultures that do not value education. Ever notice how the good schools correlate pretty well with wealthier areas?

Yes, superstar teachers can make a difference on the margin. Improving overall teacher quality could help, too. But you don't do that by firing people and shuffling them around- you do that by paying teachers more and attracting better people to the profession. Very, very few of our elite academic performers go into teaching.

But the biggest factor in which kids learn is which parents care about education, and force their kids to engage. Some parents don't value it. Some do, but don't have the time to engage and push it, thanks to working 3 retail jobs at odd times. You don't fix that by firing teachers and principals.
 
2013-04-21 06:56:00 PM

AntonSzandorLaVey: Spiffy?
If the tests exist to measure schools' performance, wouldn't moving the gifted kids to the failing school mean they would now receive worse instruction, diminishing their chances at being successful or doing something extraordinary with their lives, and the eventual idiocracy-ing of the world just to manipulate the results of the test?
I know, thatsthejoke.jpg, but seriously. Jesus Christ.


Of course.  But they're still likely to score highest on standardized testing for the few years they're at that school.  What makes you think this is about the kids?
 
2013-04-21 06:58:54 PM

ZAZ: Around here they also look at scores by group. If your poor, black, hispanic, transgender retards are doing poorly, your school is doing poorly. Bringing in a bunch of rich, white, male math genuises won't save it.


Similarly, if your one enrolled Hawaiian Native has Down's syndrome, the school will forever have an F, because there's no way for her to get an A on the test.

Sometimes children need to be left behind. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the babysitter.
 
2013-04-21 07:02:24 PM
This is the wonderful strategy of the best private schools: cherry-pick the brightest and easiest-to-manage, then if they don't measure up one semester, kick them out.  The stupid or misbehaving kids don't interfere with my smart and well-behaved fourth-grade son.

/It's sooooo simple: you get what you pay for.
//150+ kids compete for 20 open kindergarten slots every year.
 
2013-04-21 07:03:07 PM
This happened to me growing up. I was in the gifted program and ended up going to 3 elementary schools (I never moved). My middle school was in the inner city (we all had a 45-minute bus ride each way because none of us lived there).
 
2013-04-21 07:04:12 PM
All I know is that no one is better than anyone else and everyone is the best at everything.
 
2013-04-21 07:04:31 PM
The NEA, still doing to education what the UAW did to the automotive industry. Of course you can't have vouchers, you pay your money and then we get to tell your kid to go to hell citizen. Public education isn't done for the benefit of the students, it's there to support the union, just like every other public sector union views the tax base.  That's why government workers earn twice as much as private sector employees doing the same work.
 
2013-04-21 07:05:29 PM

Yes please: AntonSzandorLaVey: Spiffy?
If the tests exist to measure schools' performance, wouldn't moving the gifted kids to the failing school mean they would now receive worse instruction, diminishing their chances at being successful or doing something extraordinary with their lives, and the eventual idiocracy-ing of the world just to manipulate the results of the test?
I know, thatsthejoke.jpg, but seriously. Jesus Christ.

Of course.  But they're still likely to score highest on standardized testing for the few years they're at that school.  What makes you think this is about the kids?


An interesting tactic that could be used: have the kids to go on strike (intentionally fail the test). Let the administration know that this behaviour will not get them the intended result. See if they back off after all the gifted parents notify them of this.
 
2013-04-21 07:08:42 PM

Sim Tree: An interesting tactic that could be used: have the kids to go on strike (intentionally fail the test). Let the administration know that this behaviour will not get them the intended result. See if they back off after all the gifted parents notify them of this.


Who is John Galt?
 
2013-04-21 07:10:00 PM

sheep snorter: Why not fire the entire staff at the school, unless they can explain why the school graduates retards? Graduate them or overcrowding happens and grade points drop more.


But sometimes that's like firing the basketball coaching staff for having a losing record, even though they don't have any players over 5'10".  I some cases you just don't have the players, or the students.
 
2013-04-21 07:12:09 PM
I had a teacher call me up and complain how one of my snowflakes wasn't helping her teach the other snowflakes.  She claimed teaching them would help my kid later in life, I don't think she cared much for my response that it was not a skill my snowflake needed, as in the future he would simply fire those employees who could not learn on their own.

So she decided to call my wife, which was a bit of a mistake since while I'm an asshole, my wife's photo is on the wikipedia page for "Tiger Mom".  My wife stormed into the superintendent's office and it ended with my kid getting moved to a different classroom for the rest of 4th grade.

/no her photo isn't really there
 
2013-04-21 07:13:16 PM

OscarTamerz: The NEA, still doing to education what the UAW did to the automotive industry. Of course you can't have vouchers, you pay your money and then we get to tell your kid to go to hell citizen. Public education isn't done for the benefit of the students, it's there to support the union, just like every other public sector union views the tax base.  That's why government workers earn twice as much as private sector employees doing the same work.


Take your union hating crap out of here.  The NEA is not pushing this crap here.  A dysfunctional school board is.  Trust me, a large portion of the teachers (some NEA members) in the system are not happy.

You want to help.  Reduce class sizes.  Do you know that now every state licensed teacher employed at a campus counts towards pupil/teacher ration?  So the admin staff, librarians, NCLB special resource teachers and the special ed teacher assigned to help profoundly disabled kids at one to one rate all count in the metric if they hold a cert.  Its how actual class sizes are 33+ kids while the reported ratio is 25.  That is not a product of the NEA.  That is a product of school boards weaseling the numbers.
 
2013-04-21 07:14:03 PM

wingnut396: These schools are not on the most prosperous part of town and they are not very far from each other.


I don't know this particular area so it may be different, but when they've tried to pull this kind of thing near me the families were having none of it.

One of the interesting things I've seen is when comparing "failing" schools to good schools, kids of similar demographic backgrounds score just about the same on the standardized tests. The backgrounds of the students were a much bigger factor than the school.
 
2013-04-21 07:25:17 PM

Sim Tree: Yes please: AntonSzandorLaVey: Spiffy?
If the tests exist to measure schools' performance, wouldn't moving the gifted kids to the failing school mean they would now receive worse instruction, diminishing their chances at being successful or doing something extraordinary with their lives, and the eventual idiocracy-ing of the world just to manipulate the results of the test?
I know, thatsthejoke.jpg, but seriously. Jesus Christ.

Of course.  But they're still likely to score highest on standardized testing for the few years they're at that school.  What makes you think this is about the kids?

An interesting tactic that could be used: have the kids to go on strike (intentionally fail the test). Let the administration know that this behaviour will not get them the intended result. See if they back off after all the gifted parents notify them of this.


Actually, this is happening, but with parents having their kids not take the test, pulling them out of school for the day instead. There have been places where enough parents have pulled their kids out of standardized tests that schools have had trouble meeting the minimum percentage of students tested for them to get federal funds. Causes quite a few headaches, and should be heartily encouraged IMO.
 
2013-04-21 07:29:26 PM
Sounds similar to how private schools work, except they kick out the kids who are ruining the high scores that form the basis for their advertisement (and justify their high costs).  Since a public school is not allowed to just kick kids out for dragging down their scores, they choose to draft in better students.  Makes sense.

Can we please move beyond the idiotic notion that these tests do anything useful, and adopt an education policy that understands that all the kids, the smart ones and the dumb/lazy ones, need to be taught?
 
2013-04-21 07:33:00 PM

cptjeff: Actually, this is happening, but with parents having their kids not take the test, pulling them out of school for the day instead. There have been places where enough parents have pulled their kids out of standardized tests that schools have had trouble meeting the minimum percentage of students tested for them to get federal funds. Causes quite a few headaches, and should be heartily encouraged IMO.


As a side note in some states you get an automatic number of "parental education days" that you can take your kid out of school to expose to an education activity.  As long as you have a semi credible educational activity the school has to excuse it.  I have spared my children the annoyance of some standardized tests by taking them overseas for "multicultural education".  Just ensure the trip covers both the test date and the alternate date if possible.
 
2013-04-21 07:45:13 PM

ha-ha-guy: As a side note in some states you get an automatic number of "parental education days" that you can take your kid out of school to expose to an education activity. As long as you have a semi credible educational activity the school has to excuse it. I have spared my children the annoyance of some standardized tests by taking them overseas for "multicultural education". Just ensure the trip covers both the test date and the alternate date if possible.


They would have had to say bye bye to an on campus parking spot if they were at my high school.  And pay full price for prom.  And miss out on the "prizes" for putting in a "good faith effort"

/the prizes were pretty cheap or "donated" coupons
 
2013-04-21 07:55:22 PM

12349876: ha-ha-guy: As a side note in some states you get an automatic number of "parental education days" that you can take your kid out of school to expose to an education activity. As long as you have a semi credible educational activity the school has to excuse it. I have spared my children the annoyance of some standardized tests by taking them overseas for "multicultural education". Just ensure the trip covers both the test date and the alternate date if possible.

They would have had to say bye bye to an on campus parking spot if they were at my high school.  And pay full price for prom.  And miss out on the "prizes" for putting in a "good faith effort"

/the prizes were pretty cheap or "donated" coupons


I mostly yanked them for the elementary school ones, I made them suck it up and take the middle school and high school ones because it was practice for the ACT and SAT which do matter.  I just told them to treat the test as if it was the SAT (better not to answer than answer wrong, although maybe SAT scoring has changed since then).  In high school my kids always seemed to have a slack off week before the the end of the year, I figure the teachers did finals early so they could get a jump on grading, and I bailed them out of school for those days.  I did actually get a call from some teacher because one of my kids missed some bullshiat assembly they held to fill the dead air.
 
2013-04-21 07:56:54 PM
Welcome to plug and play dog wagging.  Pick a tail, any tail.  And how about those numbers?!  The kids?  Oh, yeah, sure, kids, school, sure.
 
2013-04-21 08:02:17 PM
I actually went there, the school system is usually getting sued to desegregate. So between fourth and fifth grade they packed us up and shipped us across town from Mayfair (actually reasonably nice) to Glen Oaks Park (godforsaken hellhole in the bad part of town). Luckily only spent a year there, then onto middle school, where they were playing the same game.

Pretty hilarious to me that Glen Oaks is now the high performing school. No idea where Merrydale is, probably in north BR.

/CSB
 
2013-04-21 08:15:39 PM
Sometimes schools do a similar thing with low-scoring populations. At least in Kentucky, if a targeted population has fewer than ten students in that population in that grade in that school, their scores don't count as a "group" (they're still used in overall measures. This leads to things like officially not having any black kids or special needs kids in your school. Less than scrupulous principals that have 11 special ed kids in one grade might decide one of them is getting transferred for a week or so during test time.
 
2013-04-21 08:17:53 PM

OscarTamerz: That's why government workers earn twice as much as private sector employees doing the same work.


i260.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-21 08:21:18 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: No amount of student-shuffling, teacher salary raises, test score metrics, or administration changes will ever change the underlying cause of poor academic performance: lack of parental interest.

Unless the parents are present and actively interested in their child's scholastic endeavors, public education is just daycare.


This. If the kids don't pay attention and don't do homework OF COURSE they don't learn anything. It's not possible given the amount of time they have for teachers to cajole disinterested students who eagerly look forward to a life of low skilled labor, and/or drug dealing, petty crime and general assholishness into enjoying learning. Since teachers can't give students any consequences besides detention and flunking them of course they don't learn anything.

I remember being in school. The parents complaining loudest about what the school wasn't doing were the ones that didn't care that their kids were running around wild, getting pregnant/impregnating others at 15-18, being on drugs, dealing drugs and generally being criminal. Their kids didn't do homework, didn't pay attention, disrupted class and were assholes to the teachers and other kids. Those parents had no idea where their kids were on any given night, or what they were doing, often because the parents (though it was almost always one parent the kid was living with) were too busy being drunk/on drugs, or trying to pick up strangers in a bar/club somewhere, or possibly out stealing or dealing to notice or care. Yet it was always the school's fault somehow.
 
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