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(Google)   Chechen militants deny any link to Boston, proclaim themselves as Yankee fans   (google.com) divider line 80
    More: Obvious, Chechen, Caucasus, North Caucasus, Yankees, Dzhokhar, Dagestan, Tsarnaev, activists  
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4535 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 7:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-21 04:37:13 PM
"We are only fighting Russia, which is not only responsible for the occupation of the Caucasus, but also for monstrous crimes against Muslims," the rebels said.

Unless the US has been helping Russia suppress Chechen rebels in some way that I'm not aware of, Chechen mujahadeen groups provoking the US doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

But I can wait for the investigation to be completed.
 
2013-04-21 04:40:01 PM
It is kind of puzzling. You'd think the Olympics in Russia would be the target of a Chechen.
 
2013-04-21 04:46:13 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Chechen mujahadeen groups provoking the US doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


They aren't mujahideen.  They aren't waging a war based on religion. They want indepence, like say, a group of British colonists about 230 years ago.
 
2013-04-21 04:53:44 PM

cretinbob: tallguywithglasseson: Chechen mujahadeen groups provoking the US doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

They aren't mujahideen.  They aren't waging a war based on religion. They want indepence, like say, a group of British colonists about 230 years ago.


Weird.


"The command of the Vilayat Dagestan mujahedeen... declares that the Caucasus fighters are not waging any military activities against the United States of America," said a statement posted on the rebels' Kavkazcenter.com and Vdagestan.info websites.

Guess they didn't get the memo.
 
2013-04-21 04:59:53 PM
 
2013-04-21 05:14:04 PM

tallguywithglasseson: cretinbob: tallguywithglasseson: Chechen mujahadeen groups provoking the US doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

They aren't mujahideen.  They aren't waging a war based on religion. They want indepence, like say, a group of British colonists about 230 years ago.

Weird.


"The command of the Vilayat Dagestan mujahedeen... declares that the Caucasus fighters are not waging any military activities against the United States of America," said a statement posted on the rebels' Kavkazcenter.com and Vdagestan.info websites.
Guess they didn't get the memo.


That's also not Chechnya.
I was referencing the organized resistance of the invasion by Russian troops specifically, not those responsible for acts like Beslan.

That would be the first Checehn war. The second Chechen war does seem to have greater religous undertones.

Some people just look for an excuse to fight.
 
2013-04-21 05:35:06 PM

cretinbob: That's also not Chechnya.


Killing innocent civilians is one thing, making me be mindful of geography... that's going too far. Now I'm pissed.

cretinbob: That would be the first Checehn war. The second Chechen war does seem to have greater religous undertones.


Ok...

In any case, the same goes for pretty much any group in any Russian republic seeking independence.
They're already in a fight -- with a super power. They have a focused, real-world goal -- independence -- whether religiously motivated or otherwise.
Picking a fight with the US while still engaged with Russia just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Especially since I'm not aware of the US helping Russia suppress rebels in any of the Caucasus -- and I believe the US has specifically denounced Russian actions in Chechnya.

But, I'm trying to avoid speculating, I can wait until the investigators get a chance to do their thing.

//so much easier when I was growing up, just a big outline with "U.S.S.R." in giant letters
 
2013-04-21 05:35:51 PM

cretinbob: I was referencing the organized resistance of the invasion by Russian troops specifically,


That's been happening to various degrees on and off in that part of the world ever since the Russians first took over in the late 18th Century.  And the Russians have responded with various deportations and Russifications and all that stuff they like to do for a couple hundred years.
 
2013-04-21 05:52:33 PM

tallguywithglasseson: cretinbob: That's also not Chechnya.

Killing innocent civilians is one thing, making me be mindful of geography... that's going too far. Now I'm pissed.

cretinbob: That would be the first Checehn war. The second Chechen war does seem to have greater religous undertones.

Ok...

In any case, the same goes for pretty much any group in any Russian republic seeking independence.
They're already in a fight -- with a super power. They have a focused, real-world goal -- independence -- whether religiously motivated or otherwise.
Picking a fight with the US while still engaged with Russia just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Especially since I'm not aware of the US helping Russia suppress rebels in any of the Caucasus -- and I believe the US has specifically denounced Russian actions in Chechnya.

But, I'm trying to avoid speculating, I can wait until the investigators get a chance to do their thing.

//so much easier when I was growing up, just a big outline with "U.S.S.R." in giant letters


Yeah, it was easier then. Oddly, the constant threat of a nuclear war doesn't seem so bad now.

I agree 100%. These seem to be a couple of legal immigrants (they had green cards, they were not citizens) who, for what ever reason seemed to have turned. In reading another article that was greenlit, I guessing the parents were deported, but I haven't read  a confirmation on that yet. They may have left voluntarily rather than be deported as well. That might be these assholes beef, Again pure speculation.

My main point is that people need to stop and shut the hell up. Cultural differneces are far greater than
religious differences. Copts, Byzantine, Roman, Ethiopians.... are all Christian, but don't have the same beliefs. Same with Islam. European muslims aren't the same as Saudi, who aren't the same as Pakistani and the people who want to do harm are a small but terribly vocal minority.

That's why we can't put up with assholes who do things like say the whole bombing was staged and fake just to take guns away. Yes, there are people who have put out web sites on it, and they are getting replies. People believe that shiat. It needs to be called what it is, bullshiat.

Those kind of assholes are no better than any terrorist. Yeah I used to laugh and giggle and think, "wow that guy is a dumbass" but now I see the danger is letting those assholes get away with their bullshiat.

Yes, I'm pissed. Those of us who are sane and rational should all be pissed.
 
2013-04-21 06:22:06 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com

You're not helping your case here, Chechens.
 
2013-04-21 06:27:48 PM
No one thinks that Chechns are behind this, why would they be? They already have to deal with the full wrath of Russia, why add America on top (although America is nowhere as bad, violent or repressive as Russia is)
 
2013-04-21 06:29:52 PM

cretinbob: European muslims aren't the same as Saudi,


Saudi Arabia has been trying their damnedest to make sure they turn that way in the last 20 years through a huge amount of money and hate preachers poured all over Europe though
 
2013-04-21 07:11:33 PM
Chechen militants deny any link to Boston, proclaim themselves as Yankee fans

Wipe them out. All of them.
 
2013-04-21 07:12:10 PM
My guess is these bungholes somehow got radicalized and did it on their own.
 
2013-04-21 07:12:45 PM
Guess who else tried to build an oil pipeline through someone's country?
 
2013-04-21 07:14:44 PM
Putin would love to have the US as an ally against Chechen separatists.  And the Chechen fighters have zero reason to target American targets.

Their leader has been reported as saying that the roots of our tragedy in Boston will be found in America, not Chechnya.
 
2013-04-21 07:14:59 PM

Tatsuma: No one thinks that Chechns are behind this, why would they be? They already have to deal with the full wrath of Russia, why add America on top (although America is nowhere as bad, violent or repressive as Russia is)


My best guess is one of two. Either they worked alone, and I highly doubt they did. Got to ask yourself, what would be their goal? It doesn't make sense. My second guess is it's going to be Iranian backed. Somewhere along the line you'll find their (SAVAK) fingers in there somewhere.
And just a question. Where did these guys manage to get grenades? Pistols I can see. But grenades? Americans don't have access to those easily do they?
 
2013-04-21 07:15:32 PM
Never thought the bombers had ties to the Chechen rebels as it made no sense to attack what they did if they were,one would think they would have gone after the Russian embassy in DC or something to that effect.

This is the work of Muslim extremists, or perhaps wannabe Muslim Extremists.
 
2013-04-21 07:15:32 PM

Triumph: It is kind of puzzling. You'd think the Olympics in Russia would be the target of a Chechen.


Especially since it's the next state over from Chechnya. That's going to be one awkward Olympics.

But this has been a big fear Olympic officials have had with this bid I think.
 
2013-04-21 07:17:01 PM
cdn.ebaumsworld.com
 
2013-04-21 07:18:08 PM
These two Boston a-holes are no different than many other psychopaths
Ted Kaczynski
Timothy McVeigh
Richard Reid
Eric Rudolph
Guy Fawkes
Mohammad Atta  (gotta give him credit for his recruiting skills)

This has nothing--NOTHING--to do with ideology or politics or religion or any other cockamamie reason.  They simply love to kill people by explosives. Period.
 
2013-04-21 07:18:16 PM
My person bet is the older one radicalized after his parents moved back to Russia and suddenly he became a young adult with few social (due to poor assimilation) and family ties.  However he was also too much of a pussy to actually go back to Chechnya and fight the Russians.

Younger brother meanwhile appears not that bright and easily influence.  It appears he ran his older brother over and now reports are coming out that he might have shot himself in the neck.  I don't think he is in the running for the title of terrorist mastermind.
 
2013-04-21 07:18:39 PM
It had nothing to do with Chechen separatism and everything to do with radical Islam. How this terrorist - who the Russians asked us specifically to investigate - slipped through this administration's fingers remains to be seen.
 
2013-04-21 07:19:23 PM

indarwinsshadow: My best guess is one of two. Either they worked alone, and I highly doubt they did. Got to ask yourself, what would be their goal? It doesn't make sense. My second guess is it's going to be Iranian backed. Somewhere along the line you'll find their (SAVAK) fingers in there somewhere.
And just a question. Where did these guys manage to get grenades? Pistols I can see. But grenades? Americans don't have access to those easily do they?


Well the brother connected with radical Islamists while on a six months trip in Russia and Dagestan, so my guess is that he was linked-up with Al-Qaeda or a similar outfit (he had youtube videos praising Al Qaeda) and he trained with them and that's how he learned to do these explosive devices (pressure cooker IEDs is a hallmark of al qaeda)

And they weren't 'grenades', they were small throw-able homemade explosives. Think Fallout New Vegas's Tin Grenades.
 
2013-04-21 07:20:32 PM

Infernalist: Putin would love to have the US as an ally against Chechen separatists.  And the Chechen fighters have zero reason to target American targets.

Their leader has been reported as saying that the roots of our tragedy in Boston will be found in America, not Chechnya.


Shouldn't be too difficult:  tie the two Boston idiots to the Chechen separatist movement, declare war.

Hell, we invaded Iraq based on less evidence, this shouldn't be that hard at all.
 
2013-04-21 07:20:43 PM

WhoopAssWayne: It had nothing to do with Chechen separatism and everything to do with radical Islam. How this terrorist - who the Russians asked us specifically to investigate - slipped through this administration's fingers remains to be seen.


Remember the guy who kill three french soldiers and then entered a Jewish Kindergarten in Toulouse and killed many children and one teacher before fleeing?

That guy and his brother were both on watch lists and were met before, but they had nothing concrete on them, and they didn't commit any crimes, so what can governments do?
 
2013-04-21 07:21:36 PM

WhoopAssWayne: It had nothing to do with Chechen separatism and everything to do with radical Islam. How this terrorist - who the Russians asked us specifically to investigate - slipped through this administration's fingers remains to be seen.


It's Obama's fault now?

I understand that the FBI made a mistake but how is one investigation all Obama's fault?

It's not like there was a memo saying "Chechnyans determined to bomb Boston" sitting on his desk that he decided to ignore.
 
2013-04-21 07:26:53 PM

tallguywithglasseson: "We are only fighting Russia, which is not only responsible for the occupation of the Caucasus, but also for monstrous crimes against Muslims," the rebels said.

Unless the US has been helping Russia suppress Chechen rebels in some way that I'm not aware of, Chechen mujahadeen groups provoking the US doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

But I can wait for the investigation to be completed.


/Yes, so that totally excuses you from taking over a grade school and blowing up hundreds of innocent children who have nothing to do with the government you're so against.  I don't give a shiat what your religion is, or your political views, you kill innocent children to attain a political end. You are terrorists, and assholes and murderers. The world will be a better place when you are wiped from the face of it. We are done with you, go die.
 
2013-04-21 07:27:43 PM

Tatsuma: WhoopAssWayne: It had nothing to do with Chechen separatism and everything to do with radical Islam. How this terrorist - who the Russians asked us specifically to investigate - slipped through this administration's fingers remains to be seen.

Remember the guy who kill three french soldiers and then entered a Jewish Kindergarten in Toulouse and killed many children and one teacher before fleeing?

That guy and his brother were both on watch lists and were met before, but they had nothing concrete on them, and they didn't commit any crimes, so what can governments do?


Also, keep in mind (as no one in media seems to be doing) that people can change.  We are not static individuals.  It's well within the realm of possibility that when the FBI looked into things, they didn't find anything because there really wasn't anything overt at that time.  They looked, didn't find anything interesting and moved on.  Then in the delta years is when things began to spin up for the suspects.

All anyone can really deal with is evidence of the past and present.
 
2013-04-21 07:27:50 PM

rkiller1: These two Boston a-holes are no different than many other psychopaths
Ted Kaczynski
Timothy McVeigh
Richard Reid
Eric Rudolph
Guy Fawkes
Mohammad Atta  (gotta give him credit for his recruiting skills)

This has nothing--NOTHING--to do with ideology or politics or religion or any other cockamamie reason.  They simply love to kill people by explosives. Period.


Fawkes was basically what Americans would refer to as a "fall guy". Others were behind the Gunpowder Plot.
 
2013-04-21 07:27:55 PM

Mrtraveler01: WhoopAssWayne: It had nothing to do with Chechen separatism and everything to do with radical Islam. How this terrorist - who the Russians asked us specifically to investigate - slipped through this administration's fingers remains to be seen.

It's Obama's fault now?

I understand that the FBI made a mistake but how is one investigation all Obama's fault?

It's not like there was a memo saying "Chechnyans determined to bomb Boston" sitting on his desk that he decided to ignore.


The whole 2011 investigation is going to a favorite topic of right wing radio trolls and Fark trolls it seems.  The reality of it is that the attacks were not very sophisticated and any Fark or 4chan basement dweller could have pulled them off and the actions of the two bombers post bombing suggests they weren't the brightest pair (or best trained) pair of bulbs in the box.  It could very well be that the FBI's conclusion in 2011 was "Well the older one is a bit weird, but pretty much a moron.  Nothing here to justify sitting on him for the next two years."

/I wonder if the FBI will release parts of the investigation and we can head the whole thing off
//not that the FBI is immune to screw ups or anything
 
2013-04-21 07:42:38 PM

Tillmaster: rkiller1: These two Boston a-holes are no different than many other psychopaths
Ted Kaczynski
Timothy McVeigh
Richard Reid
Eric Rudolph
Guy Fawkes
Mohammad Atta  (gotta give him credit for his recruiting skills)

This has nothing--NOTHING--to do with ideology or politics or religion or any other cockamamie reason.  They simply love to kill people by explosives. Period.

Fawkes was basically what Americans would refer to as a "fall guy". Others were behind the Gunpowder Plot.


Very true, my British friend, tho he's nominally celebrated every November 5th. I'll bet all the other guys on the list are jealous.
 
2013-04-21 07:44:19 PM

Marine1: My guess is these bungholes somehow got radicalized and did it on their own.


I'm guessing that the interviews with the FBI gave Tammerlan a push in the direction of persecution, paranoia and resentment. He embraces his religion, visits the old country and then finds himself under investigation.
 
2013-04-21 07:47:37 PM
Mujahadeen are freedom fighters, not religious fighters (jihadists).

The Afghan mujahadeen were fighting the Russian invaders and were fighting for Afghan independence.

Chechen mujahadeen are fighting for the same thing, independence.
 
2013-04-21 07:49:24 PM

DreamyAltarBoy: Marine1: My guess is these bungholes somehow got radicalized and did it on their own.

I'm guessing that the interviews with the FBI gave Tammerlan a push in the direction of persecution, paranoia and resentment. He embraces his religion, visits the old country and then finds himself under investigation.


Well... that happens every once in a while when your old country is a smoldering heap of rubble.

He could have just lodged a complaint with the ACLU. Then we could be calling him a shiathead for a completely different reason that would allow him to still be alive.
 
2013-04-21 07:50:39 PM
This whole thing is super fishy.  Most of these major extremist groups claim their work, don't they?

Me wonders if these were foreign version of Trench Coat Mafia.
 
2013-04-21 07:51:28 PM
You know who else was a Yankees fan?

i512.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-21 07:53:11 PM

cretinbob: tallguywithglasseson: cretinbob: tallguywithglasseson: Chechen mujahadeen groups provoking the US doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

They aren't mujahideen.  They aren't waging a war based on religion. They want indepence, like say, a group of British colonists about 230 years ago.

Weird.


"The command of the Vilayat Dagestan mujahedeen... declares that the Caucasus fighters are not waging any military activities against the United States of America," said a statement posted on the rebels' Kavkazcenter.com and Vdagestan.info websites.
Guess they didn't get the memo.

That's also not Chechnya.
I was referencing the organized resistance of the invasion by Russian troops specifically, not those responsible for acts like Beslan.

That would be the first Checehn war. The second Chechen war does seem to have greater religous undertones.

Some people just look for an excuse to fight.

pmcmovieline.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-21 07:57:15 PM

Marine1: DreamyAltarBoy: Marine1: My guess is these bungholes somehow got radicalized and did it on their own.

I'm guessing that the interviews with the FBI gave Tammerlan a push in the direction of persecution, paranoia and resentment. He embraces his religion, visits the old country and then finds himself under investigation.

Well... that happens every once in a while when your old country is a smoldering heap of rubble.

He could have just lodged a complaint with the ACLU. Then we could be calling him a shiathead for a completely different reason that would allow him to still be alive.


Would have been nice, but I think he was frakkin broken and isolated before he went back to Islam. Just the kind of thing that makes a "True Believer".
 
2013-04-21 07:57:58 PM
Anyone else pick up on this Warlord's name?  Doku?  Really?!  How is this not the focus of this thread by now?
 
2013-04-21 07:59:15 PM
Impeccable timing right before the Amnesty bill vote.
Thank the Checnyians terrorists  for something positive.
 
2013-04-21 08:00:09 PM
Disaffected young immigrants failing to live up to the very high expectations of family in _the land of the free_ and _the land of opportunity_, look back to ethnic roots and identify with something, anything, to make them seem somehow exceptional. And people claim they don't understand.
Not that they weren't ripe for being recruited by some nutty organization, but only because they were three quarters the way there by themselves and I bet they wound up doing this all on their own. Very telling is that the younger one was an undergraduate (who was failing) whose father kept saying was a medical student. They were both desperate to do something to overcome their feelings of being insignificant losers. It was either the bombing or becoming a troll on fark.
 
2013-04-21 08:00:46 PM

BafflerMeal: It's well within the realm of possibility that when the FBI looked into things, they didn't find anything because there really wasn't anything overt at that time. They looked, didn't find anything interesting and moved on. Then in the delta years is when things began to spin up for the suspects.


Please stop, as you're being logical.  Fark is not the place for your reasonableness.
 
2013-04-21 08:03:16 PM
There have been times in the past when murderers or terrorists had been previously picked up and let go by police, for things like speeding tickets.  Hell, there was that Army officer that went on a shooting rampage on his base in the name of al-Qaeda, who surely had undergone a general background check before being commissioned.

But this one stings because one of the bombers was specifically investigated and psychologically profiled as an individual for his potential to carry out an attack like this.  Less than 2 years ago.  What could have happened during the past 2 years to have such a radical change on his capacity for mass violence?  I'm leaning towards the probability that the FBI failed because they were only looking for ties to, and proof of communication with, known terrorist entities.  They didn't find proof that he was in contact with extremists outside the country, so they just dropped it.
 
2013-04-21 08:06:13 PM

retarded: Mujahadeen are freedom fighters, not religious fighters (jihadists).

The Afghan mujahadeen were fighting the Russian invaders and were fighting for Afghan independence.

Chechen mujahadeen are fighting for the same thing, independence.


The Afghan mujahadeen included radicalized Islamists from other places around the world, imported by the ISI (Pakistan secret service) and funded by the USA. Later, some of these ended up in Bosnia (as witnessed by some refugees I have befriended).
 
2013-04-21 08:06:15 PM
US news reports had earlier said the FBI was studying possible links between the two main suspects -- brothers Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev -- and the Caucasus Emirate movement led by feared warlord Doku Umarov.

DAAYUM!!! those chechens have a hardcore warloard!!!

 
2013-04-21 08:07:06 PM
I bet whoever in Chechnya that radicalized the older idiot brother is going to meet an untimely and messy end by his fellow radicals in the near future.
 
2013-04-21 08:07:09 PM
lancemannion.typepad.com

hardcore warlord
 
2013-04-21 08:09:48 PM

cretinbob: tallguywithglasseson: Chechen mujahadeen groups provoking the US doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

They aren't mujahideen.  They aren't waging a war based on religion. They want indepence, like say, a group of British colonists about 230 years ago.



A closer analogy might be "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland, where you had a mixture of both the secular, "Get the English out!", and the religious, "Eff the protestants!".
 
2013-04-21 08:10:12 PM

rkiller1: BafflerMeal: It's well within the realm of possibility that when the FBI looked into things, they didn't find anything because there really wasn't anything overt at that time. They looked, didn't find anything interesting and moved on. Then in the delta years is when things began to spin up for the suspects.

Please stop, as you're being logical.  Fark is not the place for your reasonableness.


I forget, I forget.  The chip itches sometimes.
 
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