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(Salon)   This just in: men have trouble understanding women   (salon.com) divider line 56
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6706 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2013 at 9:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-04-21 10:42:58 AM
6 votes:
www.thezooom.com
2013-04-21 10:00:06 AM
5 votes:
We just take you at your word.

<man>"are you ok?"
<woman, clearly upset>"I'm fine."
<man>.oO(I guess she wants some privacy) Ok, see you later.
<woman>WHY DIDN'T HE DO ANYTHING FOR ME!!?!?!?!?!?!
2013-04-21 10:15:51 AM
4 votes:

fluffy2097: malle-herbert: Oh... we understand... we just don't give a rats ass...

we give a rats ass, we're just waiting for them to stop talking about completely irrelevant crap and get to the point.

We cannot watch football and listen to how you chose the blue socks over the red socks because of thread count.


Holy crap, no kidding. I can't count the times I've thought to myself "It's been 15 minutes of non-stop talking, and I *still* have no idea what she wants from me or what the problem is".

She: "I've got something really important to tell you"
Me: "OK"
She: "Do you remember me telling you about my cousin Gerald who lived in the city? Well it seems that one day he met this girl who had white shoes. The same type of white shoes that Jessica ordered from Eddie Bauer. Well, it seems that Eddie Bauer used to have a yearly sale on their flannel shirts; you know the ones, I use to use them for the cat bed when they got old. Anyway, Jessica's car got broken into the other day and she called me up crying. I told her to call the police, but you know how she has issue with the police due to the fact that her ex was a cop. She told me about this great place for breakfast..."

15 minutes pass

She: "... and so I told her to tell that biatch supervisor to shut the hell up and..."
Me: "What the hell is so important???"
She: "Oh. The toilet's overflowing. I think you need to fix it"
2013-04-21 09:58:24 AM
4 votes:
...or women have a hard time articulating to to men.
2013-04-21 11:27:33 AM
3 votes:
img96.imageshack.us

Not so fast. I'm always weary of non sequitur-hungry reporters latching onto research that just happens to connect to mindless, social stereotypes (and the researchers that want them to, in order to help their funding).

- The actual report (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0060278 ) says that men got the male emotion correct 87% of the time, and the female emotion correct 75% of the time. From that fact, this does not follow: "Men Don't Understand Women".

- The population tested was 22 men. That's on the small side.

- The original study that they based their work on (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453011002332) had a population size of 39 (almost double). They found men got the male emotions right 76% of the time, and women's emotions correct 70% of the time. Again, this does not follow: "Men May Not Understand Women After All". Perhaps a statistically significant result, but not substantial (small effect size, I'd guess). Interestingly, that study was looking at how a particular drug increases men's errors in evaluating negative emotions in other men, but not women.

- How do WOMEN do when evaluating both women and men?!?!?

- "Evolutionary theory" can be used to explain pretty much anything. Evolutionarily-speaking, humans need to be able to read each others' emotions - men AND women. If a man can't read a woman's emotions, he can't mate, species dies out. Blah, blah, blah...

- Depending upon how the female data came out, another way of framing this result might be: "Men understand women just as well as women understand men. However, they are exceptional at interpreting negative emotions in other men." Not surprisingly, you can make an explanation for this based on "evolutionary theory" too.

- A quick aside: They painted a very simplistic notion of the amygdala in the article. Lookup "Kluver-Bucy syndrome" (bilateral amygdala damage) to see just how simplistic it was.

/not impressed, science
//not surprised, media
2013-04-21 10:23:49 AM
3 votes:
As a woman, I must admit that they are really difficult to read & I truly feel for guys.  Women often aren't sure what they want, but they expect men to "know" what they want anyway, or "know" what they are thinking/need, etc.  They will lie that everything is "fine", when they are mad.  Then they just stew about it until they blow up.

However, it's not just with men.  They do that with each other as well.  Pretend things are ok, then biatch about each other behind their backs until they get an opportunity to stab you in the back.  Or, they will just be really catty to you, but avoid any chance to discuss any issues & deal with the problem.  Which is why all of my best friends are men, or women who are not girlie girls.

Guys are simple.  They want sex, beer & food.  Maybe a back rub too.  When they are mad, they punch each other out, sometimes literally, go have a beer & everything is fine.  So, even though I'm bi, I really prefer men.
zez
2013-04-21 10:07:13 AM
3 votes:
A new study reveals that men have trouble reading female facial expressions

media.tumblr.com
2013-04-21 12:44:09 PM
2 votes:

bunner: So far, afaict, the gist of what passes for feminism these days is basically, "we still get a free ride, but you have to drive to where WE  want to go and you pay for the gas."  And that's sad, because feminism, as on the original label was long overdue and necessary.


I HATE THIS. I have angry feminist friends, and they're all "campaign for equal wages!" And stuff of that nature. I asked my friend one time if that meant she intended to get her own doors and buy him the meal on the first date. Her serious answer was "that's the man's job." I wanted to punch her. You can't have equality in all things and then get special treatment, you slag.
2013-04-21 12:40:08 PM
2 votes:
So far, afaict, the gist of what passes for feminism these days is basically, "we still get a free ride, but you have to drive to where WE  want to go and you pay for the gas."  And that's sad, because feminism, as on the original label was long overdue and necessary.
2013-04-21 12:06:30 PM
2 votes:
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
2013-04-21 11:07:21 AM
2 votes:
media.salon.com

I'd read her facial expressions.*


*And by that I mean I would like to have sexual intercourse with her.
2013-04-21 10:58:24 AM
2 votes:
Receptionist:

"How do you write women so well?"

Nicholson:

"I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability."
2013-04-21 10:03:00 AM
2 votes:
Every once in a while we get a glimpse of their logic, and it's frightening.
2013-04-21 09:58:47 AM
2 votes:
The article pretty much makes the point that men simply haven't evolved.

I concur.
2013-04-21 01:58:58 PM
1 votes:

kiwimoogle84: Well thank you- I DID double major in English and creative writing. How I ended up in medical administration I'll never know


You wanted to eat and live indoors?
2013-04-21 01:13:12 PM
1 votes:

Egalitarian: Women are individuals just like men are. Real human beings, not symbols and projections from mens' minds.

If you try to take your experiences from one woman and apply them to another as if they were exactly the same, of course you're going to be confused.

If you treat women as projections of your own mind and have any inkling of reality, you're gonna experience a lot of cognitive dissonance.


Amen.  Have some gander sauce.
2013-04-21 01:13:10 PM
1 votes:

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Men are used to waking up as the same person every day.  Their internal balances don't vary nearly as much as women's.  The idea that a woman reserves the right to change her mind is because women are different people on different days, especially young women who aren't as used to dealing with their hormonal changes.  Men need to be flexible in dealing with women, don't expect consistency, especially emotionally.


Instead of shifting the burden to men, how 'bout women take responsibility for their actions? I've had days that I've been seething with anger (for various reasons), but I've always treated my partner with courtesy and respect instead of blowing up and then proclaiming that it wasn't my fault. I get that uncontrolled hormonal changes can affect feelings, but your actions as a result of those feelings are entirely within your control.
2013-04-21 01:12:27 PM
1 votes:

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: birdbrain777
Weaver, I concur, she wants you, and if you wait too long you will miss out.

I disagree. I think she's a cocktease and enjoys playing with you.

Although there's merit in the idea that she wants to be farkbuddies. Clear that up with her, Weaver. And if that's what she wants and if you're up for that kind of relationship then you should invite her over to spend the night. Otherwise ask her to that that shiat to hotornot.com or whatever the equivalent is these days.

Being a farkbuddy is like renting a really awesome apartment. A young person's game, a fun experience, but it hurts when it's time to move on (which comes oh so fast).


My wife's interpretation if Weaver's story follows:

If she were dtf she would hint at what they might look like until he suggested she come over and show him. Since she went ahead and sent photos unsolicited he is friendzoned so hard he might as well have a vagina.
2013-04-21 01:09:39 PM
1 votes:

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The idea that a woman reserves the right to change her mind is because women are different people on different days,


Oddly, this is not only convenient as all get out, but in men, is called "clinically gorilla sh*t loony".   :  )
2013-04-21 01:01:22 PM
1 votes:

Last Man on Earth: Jeep2011: You see women talk in code that men cannot understand due to the misogynist aspect of human society. When a woman does speak freely she is called a biatch or worse. When a woman is sexually free she is called a slut or worse. Therefore, men will never understand women until a woman can be on equal terms as men in society.

Perhaps that's so, but it quickly becomes cyclical.  Women can't really be on equal terms until they stop being afraid to speak their minds.  When someone has to be coaxed and encouraged to even voice an opinion, of course they won't be treated as equals of those who offer them freely.  People in the real world have neither the time nor the inclination for that kind of thing.  Similarly, the label of "biatch" for doing so is going to stick around until that behavior becomes perceived as normal.  I've heard women complain that there's not a male equivalent to "biatch" because the behavior is expected of men.  The solution, it seems to me, is to MAKE it the expected behavior for women, by acting straightforward speaking your mind without apology.  Make damn sure people know that's EXACTLY what they can expect from you.

I've heard this complaint many times, but it always comes with the idea that men still have to be the impetus for change.  That just won't happen.  Take a lesson from the civil rights movement:  Equality is a right, but it's not a gift.  You need to step up and claim it.  The people in charge won't change on their own, you need to step up and tell them "This is how it's going to be from now on.  You got that, prick?"


There's one key point you're missing. There's a HUGE difference between an assertive, ambitious, confident woman and a "biatch". People don't consider women to be biatches because they're assertive and direct; they consider them to be biatches because they're, well, biatches. The difference usually boils down to self-confidence. I honestly don't know any man who would regard a woman who spoke their mind directly and assertively to be a "biatch".
2013-04-21 12:53:53 PM
1 votes:

albatros183: Maybe I am feeding troll, but your problem is what?


No need to limit the options to simple dualism, you may also have comprehension issues:

Evolution: a concept devised and popularized by men ...

   By what twisted reasoning is your example a counter to that when evolution was even showing up in Three Stooges shorts as her career was taking off? Weigh facts instead of internet social expectations.
2013-04-21 12:33:45 PM
1 votes:
Honestly, I like to think I understood men, until I met Mr Kiwi. He's not into sports and distracting him with sex doesn't work that well. He's actually the complicated one in our relationship- stems from childhood and ex-girlfriend issues. So we have trouble communicating sometimes because he won't budge on certain things and I'm, well, I'll say it- pregnant. Which makes me scatterbrained and overly emotional.

However, I DO hate the chicks who say they're fine but really want reassurance or something. That pisses me off. I don't do that- but I am guilty of other typical woman behaviors at the moment so I'll shut up for now.
2013-04-21 12:32:44 PM
1 votes:

bunner: Jeep2011: You see women talk in code that men cannot understand due to the misogynist aspect of human society. When a woman does speak freely she is called a biatch or worse.

Is it me, or has "free" become code for "copping to the lowest level of self control with not only impunity, but a cheer leading section"?


There's also an implied freedom from any repercussions or criticism resulting from it.
2013-04-21 12:28:36 PM
1 votes:

Jeep2011: You see women talk in code that men cannot understand due to the misogynist aspect of human society. When a woman does speak freely she is called a biatch or worse.


Is it me, or has "free" become code for "copping to the lowest level of self control with not only impunity, but a cheer leading section"?
2013-04-21 12:16:11 PM
1 votes:

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: A major flaw with this study is that all of the test subjects were male. How well would women do reading men?


i37.tinypic.com
2013-04-21 12:13:13 PM
1 votes:
i38.tinypic.com
2013-04-21 12:07:39 PM
1 votes:

Bedstead Polisher: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: You never once sent him a message that said "Hey missed you yesterday. What happened?" You would have either gotten blown off again (which is an answer in its own way) or you could be consoling him in bed over the tragic loss of his pet guinea pig, who tragically died in a skydiving accident on Sunday. Next time you run into him, just ask. It'll put your mind at ease and prevent you from idly reliving this experience every so often for the rest of your life as women are wont to do.

Good point. We work together (different departments) so we see each other often but rarely converse without people present. I do need to just get over it and ask what's up. At least to answer the question, so I will get over it. He did text me to wish me a happy birthday two weeks after he blew me off and I had to fight the "Oh, so you DO still have my number" response. I need to stop being attracted to guys who give me mixed signals.


He's not that into you, but he doesn't want to burn any bridges.
2013-04-21 12:00:59 PM
1 votes:
birdbrain777
Weaver, I concur, she wants you, and if you wait too long you will miss out.

I disagree. I think she's a cocktease and enjoys playing with you.

Although there's merit in the idea that she wants to be farkbuddies. Clear that up with her, Weaver. And if that's what she wants and if you're up for that kind of relationship then you should invite her over to spend the night. Otherwise ask her to that that shiat to hotornot.com or whatever the equivalent is these days.

Being a farkbuddy is like renting a really awesome apartment. A young person's game, a fun experience, but it hurts when it's time to move on (which comes oh so fast).
2013-04-21 11:39:54 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: albatros183: Weaver95: albatros183: Weaver95: Sometimes I think women do it to us on purpose. My one friend knows that Wednesday night is game night. She knows the approx time I start the show (tabletop rpg). So last week she starts asking me about her decision to get her nipples pierced. That was it...my concentration tanked for the rest of the night. Then she sends me a "good morning" picture of the results. Took me half the day to focus on work after that.

So I think women understand men very well and just f*ck with us on purpose.

should have just had her come over, two brains are better than one and if X is greater than two must be better, what could go wrong?

She kept texting that she was really very sensitive and um...perky. Like I said, there went my concentration for about 2 days.

I think she knew what she was doing dammit.

then give her sex or clip her from your life. choices are simple, play games IRL or don't

Nothing is ever that simple.


She's just looking for validation. The hornier you get, the happier she is. I had a cock-tease friend for 5 years, and it didn't stop unil I said, "Look, you're being wildly disrespectful. If you actually want to be my friend, you need to quit it." After hating/wanting her for so. long, we became friends. Six months later, we started dating, and were together for a year and half. (Second) Worst mistake of my life. Never ever date an attention whore. You can't possibly validate them, they need to grow up and do it for themselves.

Gentlemen, have respect for yourselves, and have respect for your own emotional needs (emotional logic?). You'll be happier, and NICE women will fall over themselves to get to you.

/ CSB
2013-04-21 11:32:30 AM
1 votes:
This seems like the "Five Conversations" thing all over again.  Supposedly, women have five conversations going at once:  The one they're having, the one they're AVOIDING having, the subtext, the body language, and something else I can't remember.  Guys can't do that.  Guys evolved for focus, for being able to completely concentrate on one thing for an extended period.  Consequently, though, we can only have one, MAYBE two things going at a time.  There may be some guys out there who can pull it off, but I've never met one.  Whenever women feel the urge to say "He can't be THAT dense!"  Yes, yes we totally can be.

And men:  The "Oh, really?  Then what?  You're so right.  I told you that biatch was crazy!" routine is the exact opposite of useful, since it's neither improving our understanding nor teaching women to be more straightforward.  It's the conversational equivalent of faking an orgasm:  It gives the other side what they want, but it ensures that the next time won't be any better.  It's covering melanoma with a bandage, and it only leads to more problems down the line.

The trouble, though, is that the complexity is not a learned skill.  You either have it or you don't, and men don't.  Ladies, we will NEVER be able to communicate that way, so stop expecting us to.  It will only lead to disappointment.  You can, in theory, learn to be more straightforward, though, and it would be a great kindness if you would.  Is it fair to put the solution on you?  No.  However, you are the only ones who are CAPABLE of changing in a direction that will actually solve the problem.

Weaver95: Sometimes I think women do it to us on purpose. My one friend knows that Wednesday night is game night. She knows the approx time I start the show (tabletop rpg). So last week she starts asking me about her decision to get her nipples pierced. That was it...my concentration tanked for the rest of the night. Then she sends me a "good morning" picture of the results. Took me half the day to focus on work after that.

So I think women understand men very well and just f*ck with us on purpose.


...Case in point.  Not saying you specifically need to send topless photos of yourselves (but please feel free), but that level of communication is one that even we can grasp.  There's no mistaking THAT message.
2013-04-21 11:08:12 AM
1 votes:

bunner: Men objectify women.

Women try and internalize men.

Kids and dogs know better.

Anybody want a sammich?


God creates dinosaurs.

God destroys dinosaurs.

God creates man.

Man destroys God.

Man creates dinosaurs.
2013-04-21 11:04:26 AM
1 votes:
The only reason I try in vain to try and understand women is because I am just not attracted to other men in a sexual way.
2013-04-21 11:03:04 AM
1 votes:

s2s2s2: WhippingBoy: Yeah right. Like that will ever happen.

I just get tired of the "Oh yeah, we we use you to get power n shiat!" line. If it is true, then it means women only have themselves to blame for why they can't ever seem to get enough of it.


Oh I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just saying you'd have a better chance of reuniting the Koreas with marshmallow candy than you do getting a woman to accept responsibility for anything. The whole concept of "Patriarchy" was invented to absolve women from any responsibility whatsoever (e.g. if a woman murders her children or does something bad, just blame "patriarchy" instead of blaming the poor innocent woman).
2013-04-21 10:54:07 AM
1 votes:

kwame: This thread is hilariously demonstrating why there are so many single men on Fark.


I suspect there are fewer than you would like to believe.
2013-04-21 10:49:56 AM
1 votes:
At least men TRY to understand them...women seem to be stuck in the 2 year old mentality of "MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME" these days...try getting a word in edgewise with that drum beat going through her head...

(I don't remember places I used to live outside of California being so self-centered, selfish and materialistic...maybe it's like this everywhere now.)
2013-04-21 10:46:50 AM
1 votes:

Omnivorous: Venus.  Mars.  Orbits never intersect.


Of course they do what's in between ?
2013-04-21 10:45:51 AM
1 votes:
Venus.  Mars.  Orbits never intersect.
2013-04-21 10:45:48 AM
1 votes:

gaslight: Hermione_Granger: The article pretty much makes the point that men simply haven't evolved.

I concur.

Who's got the money and power again?


Men attempt to obtain power and resources to attract women. Women use men to obtain power and resources. So, which one is more concerned about power?
2013-04-21 10:43:43 AM
1 votes:

dopekitty74: Abox: It's evolution.  If women were coherent we'd spend too much time talking to them and less time banging them.

So this is why my husband would rather talk to me than fark me? Fascinating....

/never thought I'd be considered too coherent..


There could be other factors.
4.bp.blogspot.com
2013-04-21 10:37:48 AM
1 votes:
Both sides are bad.
2013-04-21 10:37:16 AM
1 votes:

KawaiiNot: But yet most men grew up with mothers and many have sisters, aunts, grandmas. I'm not buying something about this "study".


When your mom is angry at you, she screams. When your sister is being picked on too much, she cries. Grandma will come at you with a wooden switch when she's dissatisfied with your behavior. There isn't a lot you need to read in your family member's eyes in those sorts of situations. When you break your mom's favorite part off the miniature statue of David in the living room, she'll let you know exactly how she's feeling about it.

There's no "It's fine," with an implied soliloquy about how rough she's got it.
2013-04-21 10:31:28 AM
1 votes:

ComicBookGuy: I remember with my ex, when we were arguing, I'd retreat into cold reason.  This, somehow, would make her angrier.


Christ man. Never use reason or logic when arguing with a woman.
2013-04-21 10:29:13 AM
1 votes:
Modern Family nailed it: Phil's Day at the Spa.
2013-04-21 10:27:25 AM
1 votes:
Sample size 22
2013-04-21 10:26:17 AM
1 votes:

chaosangel: Or, they will just be really catty to you, but avoid any chance to discuss any issues & deal with the problem.


I once listened to like a forty minute diatribe from one woman, complaining endlessly about some other woman's actions, and made the mistake of asking "So why don't you just call her up and explain this to her like a rational adult?" I've only made that mistake once.
2013-04-21 10:25:14 AM
1 votes:
comslave: Money.

There, understood.


To be fair, looks, age, and physical fitness also plays a role.  Interesting things are far more interesting coming out of the mouth of a pretty boy trust fund kid than an old old poor fat guy.
2013-04-21 10:22:05 AM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: fluffy2097: malle-herbert: Oh... we understand... we just don't give a rats ass...

we give a rats ass, we're just waiting for them to stop talking about completely irrelevant crap and get to the point.

We cannot watch football and listen to how you chose the blue socks over the red socks because of thread count.

Holy crap, no kidding. I can't count the times I've thought to myself "It's been 15 minutes of non-stop talking, and I *still* have no idea what she wants from me or what the problem is".

She: "I've got something really important to tell you"
Me: "OK"
She: "Do you remember me telling you about my cousin Gerald who lived in the city? Well it seems that one day he met this girl who had white shoes. The same type of white shoes that Jessica ordered from Eddie Bauer. Well, it seems that Eddie Bauer used to have a yearly sale on their flannel shirts; you know the ones, I use to use them for the cat bed when they got old. Anyway, Jessica's car got broken into the other day and she called me up crying. I told her to call the police, but you know how she has issue with the police due to the fact that her ex was a cop. She told me about this great place for breakfast..."

15 minutes pass

She: "... and so I told her to tell that biatch supervisor to shut the hell up and..."
Me: "What the hell is so important???"
She: "Oh. The toilet's overflowing. I think you need to fix it"


The trick is to wait for pauses and say "uh-huh" or "yeah" and "that's understandable"

You can keep them going for hours and they have no idea you aren't paying attention.

/Just don't get so comfortable you aren't listening for the surprise question that will fark over your entire game if you can't answer.
2013-04-21 10:14:47 AM
1 votes:
I think we can read the signals just fine, we just stop caring after awhile.
2013-04-21 10:10:09 AM
1 votes:
It's evolution.  If women were coherent we'd spend too much time talking to them and less time banging them.
2013-04-21 10:09:36 AM
1 votes:
www.physicianschoiceinsurance.com

On the scene.
2013-04-21 10:05:16 AM
1 votes:
From an evolutionary point of view, accurate interpretations of other men's, rather than women's, thoughts and intentions - especially threatening cues - may have been a factor contributing to survival in ancient times.

Makes sense. It's not like women can just say no back in the good o days.
2013-04-21 10:04:52 AM
1 votes:
Money.

There, understood.
2013-04-21 10:02:39 AM
1 votes:
Maybe we understand, but would rather watch football?
2013-04-21 10:00:21 AM
1 votes:
So.... Disregard women, acquire currency?
2013-04-21 09:57:29 AM
1 votes:
Someone should just put Salon out of its misery. I read Salon for 12 years, it was an excellent website for most of that time. Now it's just clownshoes.
2013-04-21 09:18:39 AM
1 votes:
Men also have trouble pushing walls.
 
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