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(CBS 46 Atlanta)   Georgia to test pumping excess water to underground during the wet season and then pumping it back up into the rivers during the dry season. Surely nothing can go wrong   (cbsatlanta.com ) divider line
    More: Strange, dry season, wet season, rivers, Nathan Deal  
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2859 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Apr 2013 at 8:39 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-21 08:46:42 AM  
Maybe if they banned hoas from forcing people to water their grass it would help.

I have an emerald zoysia lawn and haven't watered it in 5+ years and it looks better than my neighbors with a sprinkler system.
 
2013-04-21 08:52:19 AM  
Headline five years from now:

Massive Sinkholes Opening Up All Over Georgia
 
2013-04-21 08:57:18 AM  
So, fracking then?
 
2013-04-21 09:09:46 AM  
Define "excess" water, Georgia.  Some of that stuff is supposed to reach the ocean, you know.
 
2013-04-21 09:17:25 AM  
Stage 2 of the upcoming water wars, water hoarding.

/Stage 1 was the border dispute.
 
2013-04-21 09:31:27 AM  
Why not pump it up into tanks?
 
2013-04-21 09:45:14 AM  

Head_Shot: Why not pump it up into tanks?


Well, there's not much "up" in the area and free-standing tanks are insanely expensive.
 
2013-04-21 09:56:49 AM  

Head_Shot: Why not pump it up into tanks?


The same reason you cant put Lake superior into a tank.

Too much water.

They want to be able to turn on a hose pipe and run a farking river all summer long. (which is incredibly stupid to begin with)

Any sort of tank you could possibly construct would be far to small for such an undertaking.
 
2013-04-21 09:58:34 AM  
Why don't they build one of them big holes in the ground thangs and fill that with water? What do they call them thangs again? Heck, they could even put fish in there and feed the locals?
 
2013-04-21 10:02:57 AM  

KarmicDisaster: Why don't they build one of them big holes in the ground thangs and fill that with water? What do they call them thangs again? Heck, they could even put fish in there and feed the locals?


A salt mine?
 
2013-04-21 10:17:20 AM  

dragonchild: Define "excess" water, Georgia.  Some of that stuff is supposed to reach the ocean, you know.


you're talking about a state whose Governor (Purdue) not too many years ago held a prayer vigil for rain.   That's what passes for thinking in this sh*thole.
 
2013-04-21 10:19:43 AM  

fluffy2097: Head_Shot: Why not pump it up into tanks?

The same reason you cant put Lake superior into a tank.

Too much water.


I thought we did have a tank for Lake Superior.  We call it.... Lake Superior.

/agrees with the "If water is a problem, DON'T WATER YOUR LAWN" sentiment
 
2013-04-21 10:22:18 AM  
Please do this.
 
2013-04-21 10:24:25 AM  

Tom_Slick: Stage 2 of the upcoming water wars, water hoarding.

/Stage 1 was the border dispute.


Stage 3 will be increased seismic activity. Ground water lubricates faults.
 
2013-04-21 10:24:47 AM  

Mister Peejay: I thought we did have a tank for Lake Superior. We call it.... Lake Superior.


I suppose. If you want to go down that route we have a tank for all the water on earth already though.

It's called: The Earth.
 
2013-04-21 10:25:54 AM  

CheatCommando: Tom_Slick: Stage 2 of the upcoming water wars, water hoarding.

/Stage 1 was the border dispute.

Stage 3 will be increased seismic activity. Ground water lubricates faults.


Not to mention what could be down there...  I bet a few fart smellers got the idea to pump all their toxic waste into the ground where nobody would ever notice it.
 
2013-04-21 10:27:40 AM  

fluffy2097: Mister Peejay: I thought we did have a tank for Lake Superior. We call it.... Lake Superior.

I suppose. If you want to go down that route we have a tank for all the water on earth already though.

It's called: The Earth.


It made more sense in my head.
 
2013-04-21 10:36:04 AM  

KarmicDisaster: Why don't they build one of them big holes in the ground thangs and fill that with water? What do they call them thangs again? Heck, they could even put fish in there and feed the locals?


Yeah, that's the basic idea but he's proposing to use natural underground storage rather than build something on the surface.

The surface versions are built with the assistance of a lot of natural terrain and you get a big area flooded.  If you have no suitable terrain you can't build one, if the suitable terrain is already developed it's very expensive to move everybody.
 
2013-04-21 10:40:43 AM  

fluffy2097: CheatCommando: Tom_Slick: Stage 2 of the upcoming water wars, water hoarding.

/Stage 1 was the border dispute.

Stage 3 will be increased seismic activity. Ground water lubricates faults.

Not to mention what could be down there...  I bet a few fart smellers got the idea to pump all their toxic waste into the ground where nobody would ever notice it.


Or mother nature happened to locate some arsenic or galena there.
 
2013-04-21 10:43:14 AM  

Loren: f the suitable terrain is already developed it's very expensive to move everybody.


They move on their own once the basin of the dam starts filling, in my experience.
 
2013-04-21 10:45:48 AM  

meatofmystery: you're talking about a state whose Governor (Purdue) not too many years ago held a prayer vigil for rain. That's what passes for thinking in this sh*thole.


Now, now. At least they didn't just sit around doing nothing.

Oh.... wait....
 
2013-04-21 10:50:29 AM  

CheatCommando: Or mother nature happened to locate some arsenic or galena there.


Don't forget cyanide used in the 1800s for Gold Mining
 
2013-04-21 10:53:44 AM  
I won't accept any claims of a water shortage while people are allowed to have swimming pools.
 
2013-04-21 10:59:59 AM  
Actually, the process of pumping water into the ground and retriving it later is quite established for drinking water use.  The only trouble is it's VERY touchy.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  And it's hard to tell from test drilling if it will work at a particular location.

When it works, it's pretty cool - off season you pump a hundred million or so gallons into a well, and then in the summer suck it back out.

IIRC, it's common in Florida..
 
2013-04-21 11:09:22 AM  
These people are morons and deserve the fallout. I tried to initiate converting public land in Gwinnett county for water run off 15 years ago similar to the strategy of Clayton county which has always been flush with water. This was when atlanta thought it still had access to Lake Lanier. The lure of more McMansions and tax revenue was too strong. Then I tried to arrange purchase of defunct granite quarries in Hall County to act as reservoirs. Their only concern was the Falcons' practice facility. To quote JTK, 'let then die!'
 
2013-04-21 11:16:41 AM  

PsychoPhil: IIRC, it's common in Florida..


So are enormous sink holes.
 
2013-04-21 11:20:18 AM  

lovefirststool: These people are morons and deserve the fallout. I tried to initiate converting public land in Gwinnett county for water run off 15 years ago similar to the strategy of Clayton county which has always been flush with water. This was when atlanta thought it still had access to Lake Lanier. The lure of more McMansions and tax revenue was too strong. Then I tried to arrange purchase of defunct granite quarries in Hall County to act as reservoirs. Their only concern was the Falcons' practice facility. To quote JTK, 'let then die!'


I agree the counties on the southside never had access to Lanier so they planned reservoirs to be built at certain  population figures (Fayette and Coweta just built a new lake). Gwinnett, North Fulton, Hall and Forsyth just said "screw it we will suck more out of Lanier."  Then a drought happened and the pumps weren't deep enough so instead of planning more reservoirs they put the pumps in deeper water.
 
2013-04-21 11:20:40 AM  

PsychoPhil: Actually, the process of pumping water into the ground and retriving it later is quite established for drinking water use.  The only trouble is it's VERY touchy.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  And it's hard to tell from test drilling if it will work at a particular location.

When it works, it's pretty cool - off season you pump a hundred million or so gallons into a well, and then in the summer suck it back out.

IIRC, it's common in Florida..


Florida has a karst topography - with all of those caves you essentially are creating underwater lakes. Geologically speaking, Georgia is quite a bit different.
 
2013-04-21 11:20:41 AM  
It's so cool to see no engineers are in Georgia.

The Atlamaha river has an average discharge of 13,520 ft^3/sec. In terms people can understand, that's 101,000 gallons PER SECOND! To do that, we'd need to move 6.3 million pounds of water every second, requiring a motor at 100% efficiency to be about 12,000 horsepower or in power plant terms an 8.5 MEGAWATT plant.

This doesn't include the energy necessary to dig a hole large enough for the lake to house the water, nor the dam put in to house the water until it's needed. In a nutshell, not feasible. Tell people to stop watering their damn lawn.

/these are back-of-napkin numbers. YRMV.
 
2013-04-21 11:24:45 AM  

KarmicDisaster: Why don't they build one of them big holes in the ground thangs and fill that with water? What do they call them thangs again? Heck, they could even put fish in there and feed the locals?


An oil well?
 
2013-04-21 11:29:14 AM  
If they're using natural aquifers/permeable rocks that are running low because of the high demand, it's a good idea.  Otherwise, seems like trouble.
 
2013-04-21 11:30:21 AM  

PsychoPhil: Actually, the process of pumping water into the ground and retriving it later is quite established for drinking water use.  The only trouble is it's VERY touchy.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  And it's hard to tell from test drilling if it will work at a particular location.

When it works, it's pretty cool - off season you pump a hundred million or so gallons into a well, and then in the summer suck it back out.

IIRC, it's common in Florida..


100 million gallons is about one day if water for a million people. I don't think that's going to put even a dent in anything that isn't serving only a few thousand people.
 
2013-04-21 12:00:32 PM  

LazarusLong42: 100 million gallons is about one day if water for a million people. I don't think that's going to put even a dent in anything that isn't serving only a few thousand people.


That doesn't seem far off. At 7.5 gallons per cubic foot it's roughly 30 acres of storage about 10 feet deep so the area required for a group of small towns of a few thousand each isn't exactly overwhelming. And I get about 250,000 gallons of rainfall a year on average just in my .25 acre lot based on the average rainfall totals I found online (8800 sq ft * (41in/12in) * 7.5ga/cu.ft). At 100 gallons / day for 4 people that leaves about 73,000 gallons more that falls than we use per year. And we supposedly get less precip on average than Atlanta, we just get it more evenly throughout the year.

Plus, they're not using that entire thing all at once, it's just to help alleviate some portion of the drought. Combined with emergency water efforts it could probably last for a few weeks.

I could definitely see it working, although one would think the size requirements for storage in a place like Atlanta would start to get out of hand quickly.
 
2013-04-21 12:03:41 PM  
lovefirststool

These people are morons and deserve the fallout. I tried to initiate converting public land in Gwinnett county for water run off 15 years ago similar to the strategy of Clayton county which has always been flush with water. This was when atlanta thought it still had access to Lake Lanier. The lure of more McMansions and tax revenue was too strong. Then I tried to arrange purchase of defunct granite quarries in Hall County to act as reservoirs. Their only concern was the Falcons' practice facility. To quote JTK, 'let then die!'

I assume you have a favorite wall where you pound your head in frustration like I do.

I don't have solutions for all of the problems and some I find rather confusing, but when it becomes obvious that the local population is happily destroying the land they depend on, I would expect some common sense to pop up now and then.

If you pave over nearly every square foot of soil for development, then the natural process from rain absorption is not going to refill the water table like it used to. Plus, all of that added reflective surface tends to increase the atmospheric level of heat, which can alter the amount of rain clouds passing over.

Florida has over 1000 sinkholes and more keep on appearing and those in charge know why (too much use of ground water by too many people) but they keep on packing people into the state as if it had endless room.

Then they need higher taxes to try and clean up the inevitable mess from cramming too many people into an area that can't support them.

My city used to have a lot of citrus groves as I was growing up. Now the majority of them are gone, plowed under for these big housing developments. The groves used a lot of water, but they also returned a lot of water to the ground by allowing rain to be absorbed into the sandy soil.

When, I wonder, do they consider an area 'full'? Meaning no more major development. Not another mall, strip plaza or high end housing development?

They shrank the size of the average building lot to cram more houses into a block and, naturally, started building bigger houses. Toss in a handful of swimming pools, pave the roads, channel rainwater into the ditches, which then transfers it into the sea and biatch later about low water levels, increased pollution in the ocean, diminishing wild life and a major increase in road traffic. Not to mention the need for a much bigger dump and, of course, you'll need to build the support system for all of the new folks.

Like stores, gas stations, medical centers, sewage lines, electrical lines, cell towers and more bridges.

Maybe politicians understand this self defeating strategy, but I don't.

When do the rights of others come into conflict with the rights of those who were here first? Do you have the right to pump thousands of gallons more water from the same aquifer that I use, to keep your lawn bright green and your pool topped, when I don't water my lawn and don't have a pool?

When your house costs twice as much as mine? You have two SUVs and a motorhome plus a gas guzzling mini-ocean liner of a boat. I have a single car. Yet I have to pay more for gas because your huge usage helps drive the prices up.

So, when do rights conflict?
 
2013-04-21 12:07:39 PM  
If only the surrounding states wouldn't be so biatchy about Georgia stealing their water...
 
2013-04-21 12:29:34 PM  
cdn.gunaxin.com
/approves
 
2013-04-21 12:31:54 PM  

Rik01: When, I wonder, do they consider an area 'full'? Meaning no more major development. Not another mall, strip plaza or high end housing development?

www.piccer.nl
 
2013-04-21 12:33:30 PM  
fluffy2097:  Stage 3 will be increased seismic activity. Ground water lubricates faults.

007.graphicallstars.com

Yes, yes it does indeed.
 
2013-04-21 12:44:47 PM  
tvmedia.ign.com
 
2013-04-21 12:49:18 PM  

Rik01: When do the rights of others come into conflict with the rights of those who were here first? Do you have the right to pump thousands of gallons more water from the same aquifer that I use, to keep your lawn bright green and your pool topped, when I don't water my lawn and don't have a pool?

When your house costs twice as much as mine? You have two SUVs and a motorhome plus a gas guzzling mini-ocean liner of a boat. I have a single car. Yet I have to pay more for gas because your huge usage helps drive the prices up.


Ladies and gentlemen, the Tragedy of the Commons.
 
2013-04-21 12:54:34 PM  

Tom_Slick: Stage 2 of the upcoming water wars, water hoarding.

/Stage 1 was the border dispute.


3 Profit?

Rik01: So, when do rights conflict?


Awesome post all around.
 
2013-04-21 01:21:25 PM  

SpdrJay: Headline five years from now:

Massive Sinkholes Opening Up All Over Georgia


Ironically....
 
2013-04-21 02:19:48 PM  

Muta: I won't accept any claims of a water shortage while people are allowed to have swimming pools.


Once you fill a pool up it doesn't take much water to maintain the level.

Golf courses on the other hand................
 
2013-04-21 02:48:30 PM  
I wonder if we will ever have a movement to do away with water-consuming green lawns, especially in the southwest where water is continually in short supply.
 
2013-04-21 02:53:15 PM  
You know who else stored water underground?

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-21 03:04:08 PM  
And when Georgia has enough, they will change the face of Arrakis.
 
2013-04-21 03:04:45 PM  

FrancoFile: You know who else stored water underground?

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 345x146]


Doh!

Good post.
 
2013-04-21 03:11:52 PM  

Troy McClure: I wonder if we will ever have a movement to do away with water-consuming green lawns, especially in the southwest where water is continually in short supply.


It's hard when the founding culture of the country came from a cloudy, rainy island in the north of Europe.
 
2013-04-21 03:25:56 PM  

Troy McClure: I wonder if we will ever have a movement to do away with water-consuming green lawns, especially in the southwest where water is continually in short supply.


The majority of the water consumed in the Southwest and California is used for agriculture, not lawns.  Perhaps more efficient irrigation and farming methods are needed?

P.S. Most lawns in Tucson, AZ look like this:

conservationblue.com
 
2013-04-21 04:03:57 PM  
what has Nature ever done for Georgia??
 
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