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(NPR)   20 years after Waco, it's still real to the Branch Davidians   (npr.org) divider line 296
    More: Strange, Branch Davidians, Waco, David Koresh, prophecies, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives  
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10595 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Apr 2013 at 1:10 PM (52 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-20 09:29:12 AM
*facepalm*
 
2013-04-20 10:29:10 AM
Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?
 
2013-04-20 11:07:42 AM
"...a portly herbalist who lost a foot in a tractor accident."

This keeps making me chortle.
 
2013-04-20 12:07:06 PM

DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?


That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.
 
2013-04-20 12:15:58 PM
It's hard to let go of your cult.
 
2013-04-20 12:18:06 PM

doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.


No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.
 
2013-04-20 12:22:57 PM

2wolves: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.


So they didn't fire military tear gas shells (aka burners) into the bunker after breaching the wall?
 
2013-04-20 12:24:11 PM

2wolves: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.


Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs
 
2013-04-20 12:25:03 PM

doglover: 2wolves: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.

So they didn't fire military tear gas shells (aka burners) into the bunker after breaching the wall?


Once you go potato don't ever look back
 
2013-04-20 12:32:16 PM
Did Mr Koresh use arson in a previous incident without regard for the safety of his followers?

I'll wait.
 
2013-04-20 12:36:37 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs


Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?
 
2013-04-20 12:38:21 PM
Goal posts just gotta moved.
 
2013-04-20 12:40:16 PM

ytterbium: "...a portly herbalist who lost a foot in a tractor accident."

This keeps making me chortle.


That was pretty good. Got a laugh from me.
 
2013-04-20 12:40:20 PM

doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?


Not much. I think most people would agree that the government should have handled it better. Same as Ruby Ridge, etc.
 
2013-04-20 12:40:25 PM
Got, not gotta.

FTGM
 
2013-04-20 12:50:31 PM

doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?


Well, you couldn't very well let them keep raping kids and stockpiling illegal weapons with impunity.  Religious freedom only goes so far when you start doing insane and dangerous stuff like that.  I mean, yes, it ended badly.  No disagreement.  But this was a crazy cult that was never going to let things end well.
 
2013-04-20 12:53:33 PM

Peter von Nostrand: 2wolves: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.

Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs


It is possible for more than one party to be at fault.
 
2013-04-20 01:14:37 PM
Any time the feds get involved the end result rests with them. Good or bad.
 
2013-04-20 01:16:53 PM

doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?



It rid the country of a number of dangerous and potentially dangerous criminals. That they took innocents with them is no one's fault but the dead criminals.

Have no problem with it.

I was curious, however, to see one of th main FBI guys on tv this week crying his eyes out over the outcome.
 
2013-04-20 01:18:32 PM
Haha! Oh I remember that!

i763.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-20 01:19:05 PM

doglover: 2wolves: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.

So they didn't fire military tear gas shells (aka burners) into the bunker after breaching the wall?


Burners refers to the effects, jackass.
 
2013-04-20 01:20:22 PM

doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?


Just maybe it woke a few sheeple up.
Obviously not enough.
 
2013-04-20 01:22:06 PM

Shadowknight: doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?

Well, you couldn't very well let them keep raping kids and stockpiling illegal weapons with impunity.  Religious freedom only goes so far when you start doing insane and dangerous stuff like that.  I mean, yes, it ended badly.  No disagreement.  But this was a crazy cult that was never going to let things end well.


This. They were raping kids, abusing kids and stockpiling weapons to basically start an overthrow of the government. It was handled badly, but they needed to stop what was going on there.
 
2013-04-20 01:22:14 PM

Shadowknight: doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?

Well, you couldn't very well let them keep raping kids and stockpiling illegal weapons with impunity.  Religious freedom only goes so far when you start doing insane and dangerous stuff like that.  I mean, yes, it ended badly.  No disagreement.  But this was a crazy cult that was never going to let things end well.



This. I still have to debate this with Alaskans every time I bring up the ATF.
 
2013-04-20 01:22:42 PM

Peter von Nostrand: the government should have handled it better. Same as Ruby Ridge, etc.


So, the feds shouldn't have been there, just like with Ruby Ridge?

If the dude was raping kids - and why else do people start cults - then he could have been arrested when out on his daily run.
 
2013-04-20 01:23:17 PM
"We survivors of 1993 are looking for David and all those that died either in shootout or in the fire," Doyle says. "We believe that God will resurrect this special group."

Wow. That's just f*cked up. And people mock atheists.
 
2013-04-20 01:23:18 PM
I was in high school (our teacher made us watch them burn up, live as it happened, looking back he may have been in a teabagger before there was a word for them) I read the People Magazine article on it and watched the Movie of the Week but damn if I know what it accomplished.
 
2013-04-20 01:24:23 PM
Burned Alive > Statutory Rape
 
2013-04-20 01:24:24 PM

MFAWG: doglover: 2wolves: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.

So they didn't fire military tear gas shells (aka burners) into the bunker after breaching the wall?

Burners refers to the effects, jackass.


Still having trouble with "tear gas" starting fires after all these years.
 
2013-04-20 01:25:43 PM
"The United States has to fall in order for the One World Order to be set up," he says.

Go on wif yo bad self!
 
2013-04-20 01:26:59 PM
Anybody heard anything about that big LAPD "investigation" following the Dorner Dealio?
 
2013-04-20 01:27:19 PM

Rufus Lee King: What? You mean that some folks are still angry about government thugs an insane cult leader roasting innocent women and children alive? Who would have thought?


FTFY.
 
2013-04-20 01:28:08 PM
"We survivors of 1993 are looking for David and all those that died either in shootout or in the fire," Doyle says. "We believe that God will resurrect this special group."

Sounds like a job for the Great Cornholio!

/need TP for my bunghole!
 
2013-04-20 01:28:32 PM

DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?


What's would be their fark handle?
 
2013-04-20 01:30:18 PM

snocone: Anybody heard anything about that big LAPD "investigation" following the Dorner Dealio?


The cops didn't fire a shot last I heard. The fire was extraterrestrial in nature.
 
2013-04-20 01:31:35 PM

Peter von Nostrand: 2wolves: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.

Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs


There are people that don't think the government was at fault for setting the Branch Davidians complex on fire?  Jesus were you not alive when this happened or something?
 
2013-04-20 01:31:49 PM
The man had a contest with another religious nut job about which one of them could raise a man from the dead. They eventually got rid of the corpse cause it was stinking the place up.

All they had to do was not initiate gun fire, or  not fire back or walk out with their hands in the air. They actively sought to murder people. And when those people you murder are police and other law enforcement agents, their surviving colleagues tend not to forget your tactics.

You reap what you sow. It's in the Bible. Study it out.
 
2013-04-20 01:33:04 PM

MFAWG: snocone: Anybody heard anything about that big LAPD "investigation" following the Dorner Dealio?

The cops didn't fire a shot last I heard. The fire was extraterrestrial in nature.


Yup, same "tear gas", eh?
 
2013-04-20 01:34:00 PM

machoprogrammer: This. They were raping kids, abusing kids and stockpiling weapons to basically start an overthrow of the government. It was handled badly, but they needed to stop what was going on there.


So the answer was for the government to burn those kids and the other cult victims alive. Got it.

//wife was teaching in that area at the time, had to drive through FBI checkpoints everyday, coming and going.
 
2013-04-20 01:38:35 PM
Are people forgetting what tear gas canisters did to the cabin Dorner was hiding in when they deny any possible culpability for government agents at Waco?
 
2013-04-20 01:38:36 PM

machoprogrammer: Shadowknight: doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?

Well, you couldn't very well let them keep raping kids and stockpiling illegal weapons with impunity.  Religious freedom only goes so far when you start doing insane and dangerous stuff like that.  I mean, yes, it ended badly.  No disagreement.  But this was a crazy cult that was never going to let things end well.

This. They were raping kids, abusing kids and stockpiling weapons to basically start an overthrow of the government. It was handled badly, but they needed to stop what was going on there.


The whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing no longer applies in this glorious America we now inhabit.
 
2013-04-20 01:38:53 PM

Chunks McGunks: Peter von Nostrand: 2wolves: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.

Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

There are people that don't think the government was at fault for setting the Branch Davidians complex on fire?  Jesus were you not alive when this happened or something?


Not disagreeing with this at all (personally I believe the government agents probably accidentally started the fire), but wasn't it part of the official report that the ATF planted microphones in the walls of the complex and they managed to pick up bits and pieces of conversations from the church members referring to burning the place down to the ground? I could be mistaken, but I thought I read that as part of the "proof" that the Branch members started the fires, which was presented on tape in the investigation that followed this debacle. My googlefu is weak at work right now, so correct if wrong.
 
2013-04-20 01:39:22 PM

Badafuco: Haha! Oh I remember that!

[i763.photobucket.com image 274x369]




Clinton had no attorney general when the raid took place. His first two choices for AG had to with draw after it was revealed one was once a Playboy bunny and the other employed illegal aliens.

Reno took over after it was a two month old clusterfook.

/of course, now a days the Branch Davidians would simoly be called terrorist and no tears would be shed as they burned
 
2013-04-20 01:39:24 PM
That's scary.
 
2013-04-20 01:40:07 PM
Better luck next time, fire.
 
2013-04-20 01:40:50 PM
Whatever did happen to those big steel doors?
 
2013-04-20 01:41:31 PM

doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.


The FBI nor ATF did that. It was all Koresh's fault. He ordered his slaves to set those fires. He'd rather take down himself and everyone around him in flames than face the music for his kiddy-diddling.
 
2013-04-20 01:42:59 PM

TV's Vinnie: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

The FBI nor ATF did that. It was all Koresh's fault. He ordered his slaves to set those fires. He'd rather take down himself and everyone around him in flames than face the music for his kiddy-diddling.


It was the FBI/ATF who shot at the exits during the fire, though.
 
2013-04-20 01:43:22 PM
This still makes me sad - the only thing it accomplished was to allow law enforcement to go home. No one was saved from harm and that is why I thought the government was there...
 
2013-04-20 01:43:52 PM

doglover: Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?


It was the early days of the 24 hour news networks, and after the first Gulf War (Desert Storm) they didn't have much.  The Waco and the Clinton fiascoes (and the OJ chase and subsequent trial), sadly, justified their existence and convinced the public that continuous news outlets tailored to your personal, political kink were necessary.

In terms of journalism, the span of time from mid to the late 90's was the death of it.  We went from objective sources of honest information to sensationalized stories beholden, not to the truth, but what was in the best interests of whatever sponsors backed those time slots.  It became about viewers and ratings, and abandoned informing the public and started passing off whatever crap they could to fill those slots.

Then, in 1999, shortly after discovering the growth of hair in his "special place," a young, acne-pocked, borderline-alcoholic, entrepreneur living in his mother's basement in Lexington, Kentucky first noticed the cynicism of the national news networks, and Fark.com was born and Drew Curtis became a whorehousehold name and a bourbon distillery regular.

So, if you ask what was accomplished by the siege at Waco, look around, young man.  Look at the myriad of sweet, silly flowers in this garden of madness, and remember than none of this would have been possible had it not been for, among other things, that very siege.
 
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