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(The New York Times)   Scoring error in tests prevent 4700 NYC students from qualifying as gifted. If only there were a group of unusually smart people that could have helped prevent this   (nytimes.com) divider line 69
    More: Interesting, berg administration, Department of Education, Shael Polakow-Suransky  
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2829 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Apr 2013 at 12:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-20 09:30:11 AM
According to Pearson, three mistakes were made. Students' ages, which are used to calculate their percentile ranking against students of similar age, were recorded in years and months, but should also have counted days to be precise. Incorrect scoring tables were used. And the formula used to combine the two test parts into one percentile ranking contained an error.

The first is too trivial to correct. The second and third may be minor mistakes or major mistakes.

One parent, Rena M. Ismail, 36, who had been told that her 5-year-old son, Hyder, was not eligible for a gifted seat, said the department informed her that her son had scored in the 89th percentile, when, by her math, he was in the 91st.

It's fine for a test to select the top 10% to include some 89th percentile students and exclude some 91st percentile students. The test is not that accurate and it's feeding into a lottery anyway. I have the same feeling about standardized tests used as graduation requirements. If you're so educationally challenged that your properly calculated score is the minimum passing grade, erroneously subtracting one more point does not do the world any harm.
 
2013-04-20 12:59:24 PM
... Gifted by NYC standards... I wouldn't cry about it ...
 
2013-04-20 01:01:42 PM
Those gifted programs are BS. There were many very intelligent people in my HS in many AP classes but not in the program. The kids in program just got a special room where they could screw around in their free time.
 
2013-04-20 01:03:42 PM

KittyGlitterSparkles: Those gifted programs are BS. There were many very intelligent people in my HS in many AP classes but not in the program. The kids in program just got a special room where they could screw around in their free time.


I remember not envying them in elementary school.  They got to go to their special room during recess for God's sake.  Yeah, because smart kids don't want/need to play outside.
 
2013-04-20 01:08:02 PM
/csb alert

I took a "gifted & talented" test in the sixth grade and didn't make the cut.  I was very surprised by the kids who did make the cut.  I knew I was smarter.

Anyway, two weeks later, the guidance counselor tells me they made an error in scoring the test and I did make the cut, so I joined the district's gifted program

Then i found out that I hated "gifted" students.


/ stop with the farkin' puns!
 
2013-04-20 01:09:24 PM
www.thenae.org
 
2013-04-20 01:11:26 PM

maxx2112: /csb alert

I took a "gifted & talented" test in the sixth grade and didn't make the cut.  I was very surprised by the kids who did make the cut.  I knew I was smarter.

Anyway, two weeks later, the guidance counselor tells me they made an error in scoring the test and I did make the cut, so I joined the district's gifted program

Then i found out that I hated "gifted" students.


/ stop with the farkin' puns!


Exactly. Most people in those programs are a bunch of chucklefarks.
 
2013-04-20 01:12:37 PM

KittyGlitterSparkles: Those gifted programs are BS. There were many very intelligent people in my HS in many AP classes but not in the program. The kids in program just got a special room where they could screw around in their free time.


Your gifted program may well have been, as are many. There is no consistent definition of 'gifted' nor identification procedures nor services and programs, and worse is a lack of requirement for states or districts to adopt gifted identification or services. Such programs become worthless because of an utter lack of focus and thorough misunderstanding of asynchronous development and intelligence across several levels of the education system. Over the last three months with my current school, we have added three services, two identification procedures, began collaborating with all teachers, and amassed well over 100 recommendations from VPK to 6th and began to review and compile data on each, and the enrichment classroom the majority are accustom to has had the curriculum utterly reworked to align with NAGC standards and be supported by research. Also, teachers and guidance have to do less paperwork.

The ones in New York may be bullsh*t, but I want to establish early in the comments few gifted programs are similar due to vast differences in definition, mandates, identification procedures and instruments, services within the schools, etc..
 
2013-04-20 01:18:26 PM
IQ 134, and was in the 'remedial' class all the way through school. Passed highschool, with merit, without ever doing any, or how to, study. csb
 
2013-04-20 01:19:39 PM

uttertosh: IQ 134, and was in the 'remedial' class all the way through school. Passed highschool, with merit, without ever doing any, or * how to, study. csb


* knowing.
 
2013-04-20 01:20:10 PM
Only the 90 percentile for the district-wide program? That's pretty low bar.

KrispyKritter: [Midvale School for the Gifted pic]


One of my friend's I was in the gifted program with at my school regularly wore a shirt with that comic on it.
 
2013-04-20 01:20:13 PM
Tests do an adequate job of ranking people who are good at taking tests.
 
2013-04-20 01:22:05 PM

born_yesterday: KittyGlitterSparkles: Those gifted programs are BS. There were many very intelligent people in my HS in many AP classes but not in the program. The kids in program just got a special room where they could screw around in their free time.

I remember not envying them in elementary school.  They got to go to their special room during recess for God's sake.  Yeah, because smart kids don't want/need to play outside.


I caught on to that scam in 8th grade.  From 8th to 11th, there was a special "gifted" path that did more work prepping for APs than the rest.  But you could also test into APs from the regular path.  Getting straight 'A's in the non-gifted path was 10x easier than competing for grades in the gifted group.  So I opted out, took all regular classes, tested into the 5 AP classes I wanted, and had great grades with not much effort.
 
2013-04-20 01:23:16 PM

Wodan11: Tests do an adequate job of ranking people who are good at taking tests.


The OLSAT does to a large degree, the Naglieri not as much. Both are Pearson products and New York shifted away from the OLSAT to the NNAT quite recently. Still, I use the NNAT for screening rather than identification which it isn't precise enough for, in my opinion.
 
2013-04-20 01:29:33 PM

Comsamvimes: Only the 90 percentile for the district-wide program? That's pretty low bar.

KrispyKritter: [Midvale School for the Gifted pic]

One of my friend's I was in the gifted program with at my school regularly wore a shirt with that comic on it.


I did the same with my gifted class.

Wodan11: Tests do an adequate job of ranking people who are good at taking tests.


A test does a decent job gauging knowledge and skill.
 
2013-04-20 01:29:39 PM
The only proof I need that IQ/SAT are bullshiat is that I somehow managed to score exceptionally high on them.

They're effective for screening the low end, but don't mean shiat for sorting out the mid/high end.
 
2013-04-20 01:30:42 PM
KittyGlitterSparkles:

Exactly. Most people in those programs are a bunch of chucklefarks.

I think that was me. My classmates seemed pretty sane and even-keeled. I dunno wtf I was going in school, besides slacking. :)

As for TFA, I'm not sure what to think. Gifted kids should get the support they need, but everything about a hard cutoff seems totally opposed to the idea of gifted support. Add the usual caveats about testing and actual productivity of kids vs potential.

I dunno. Seems like a minor issue (especially for 5 year olds, cripes) but of course it's not to those 4700 people and you gotta do something with special kids besides stuffing them in the barrel of education... OR we could just overhaul education to provide better services to more students that would take their intellect, maturity, and other talents into account... NAH. Crazy talk!
 
2013-04-20 01:33:11 PM

Yankees Team Gynecologist: The only proof I need that IQ/SAT are bullshiat is that I somehow managed to score exceptionally high on them.

They're effective for screening the low end, but don't mean shiat for sorting out the mid/high end.


All they prove is how good you are at taking tests. I did *great* on the SAT/ACT/GRE but I suck at applying that knowledge to real life.
 
2013-04-20 01:34:21 PM
So ultimately, some kids who weren't quite good enough will get in, along with everyone who should have gotten in. No big deal.
 
2013-04-20 01:35:27 PM

Aidan: I dunno. Seems like a minor issue (especially for 5 year olds, cripes) but of course it's not to those 4700 people and you gotta do something with special kids besides stuffing them in the barrel of education... OR we could just overhaul education to provide better services to more students that would take their intellect, maturity, and other talents into account... NAH. Crazy talk!


Give me ten years and I will begin this overhaul. I work in gifted education not because I think there is a hard cut between gifted and non-gifted but because I recognize differences in potential, developmental rates, aptitudes, etc., require different services, which our system in general does not want to recognize cause this would require thinking as radical as the Cardinal Principles or Committee which were only about a century ago...
 
2013-04-20 01:36:07 PM
ITT: Those marginally above average in intelligence humblebrag about how they weren't in gifted, but "totally could have gotten into it, man" if they had tried, and they didn't want to get into it anyway.
 
2013-04-20 01:37:01 PM

Mrbogey: Comsamvimes: Only the 90 percentile for the district-wide program? That's pretty low bar.

KrispyKritter: [Midvale School for the Gifted pic]

One of my friend's I was in the gifted program with at my school regularly wore a shirt with that comic on it.

I did the same with my gifted class.

Wodan11: Tests do an adequate job of ranking people who are good at taking tests.

A test does a decent job gauging knowledge and skill.


CSB: In freshman English in High School, my teacher gave a test on the Odyssey and the multiple choice answers spelled out the name of one of the characters (obviously more than A,B,C,D). Some of the questions were esoteric and not really relevant to the story. So if you didn't get the pattern, your grade suffered. Some tests are farking retarded.
 
2013-04-20 01:40:14 PM

Vangor: Aidan: I dunno. Seems like a minor issue (especially for 5 year olds, cripes) but of course it's not to those 4700 people and you gotta do something with special kids besides stuffing them in the barrel of education... OR we could just overhaul education to provide better services to more students that would take their intellect, maturity, and other talents into account... NAH. Crazy talk!

Give me ten years and I will begin this overhaul. I work in gifted education not because I think there is a hard cut between gifted and non-gifted but because I recognize differences in potential, developmental rates, aptitudes, etc., require different services, which our system in general does not want to recognize cause this would require thinking as radical as the Cardinal Principles or Committee which were only about a century ago...


Thank god someone is! I looked at what kind of gifted resources there were in my area, and there are simply none. Except for "awareness raising" *jerk-off motion*. Now I'm looking at resources for kids who like to touch things (wires, gears, plumbing, etc), and it's the same old bullshiat. No actual resources, just a lot of smoke. If I could find a group that was doing substantive things, I'd definitely be glad to hitch my wagon to that star. *tips hat*
 
2013-04-20 01:40:35 PM
So, how is NYC doing so far in getting all students into the above average category?

/thatsthejoke.jpg
 
2013-04-20 01:43:01 PM
They will be thankful later in life.  Being labeled as gifted is a curse and your only friends will be in the marching band.

/experience ...
 
2013-04-20 01:43:26 PM
Unusually smart people who work in education? Subby, you make me laugh. And so does the Far Side cartoon, even though I is gifted me self.

I know how we are. Smart people can do the stupidest things.
 
2013-04-20 01:44:43 PM
I was in gifted. The way our school implemented it, it was not any real advantage. In elementary school, we got pulled out of class at random times. Some of the kids resented this. Meh, kids are all little assholes. Some of the *teachers* resented this. One assigned a project while we were gone. I was a space case, and didn't think to ask about any work that might have been assigned. She never tried to inform me later. Weeks later I had to present, surprise! Thanks teacher, that was helpful.

In middle school, we were pulled out of writing class. I don't know why this was deemed least valuable, but it was. I would have gone with history, or middle school "science". So I didn't get to learn the hallowed "5 paragraph essay" our school was obsessed with til hs. Maybe no loss there.

If we're going to do gifted, do it right. Sometimes it felt more like getting the precocious ones out of the teacher's way than an effort to really teach us anything. Plus of course whether or not you were in gifted and what year you got in became this idiotic pissing contest. My relationships were complicated by it. Everybody had a reason why I was in but they weren't.
 
2013-04-20 01:49:46 PM

Qellaqan: If we're going to do gifted, do it right.


There are full classes for gifted. I know of two programs (at least), where the gifted students take their own classes from their own teachers in their own rooms, and barely interact with the rest of the students in the school. I understand how stupid it is to single out a kid (went through it briefly), but there are immersive options, provided they're offered in your area.
 
2013-04-20 01:52:32 PM

Aidan: Qellaqan: If we're going to do gifted, do it right.

There are full classes for gifted. I know of two programs (at least), where the gifted students take their own classes from their own teachers in their own rooms, and barely interact with the rest of the students in the school. I understand how stupid it is to single out a kid (went through it briefly), but there are immersive options, provided they're offered in your area.


A friend of mine went to Thomas Jefferson in DC, which I take it is kind of an honors high school. That sounds worthwhile. In St Louis, the only options were stupidly expensive privates. My hs was quite challenging (honors classes, if nothing else, got rid of the kids that enjoyed being disruptive more than learning), however I always thought the approach of the district was misguided.
 
2013-04-20 01:58:41 PM
"gifted and talented" is the biggest bunch of crap that school boards have pushed since the 90's.

I'd rather have an average student with common sense and real life experience, than some "gifted and talented" book smart dope who cannot apply him/herself in real life situations.
 
2013-04-20 02:04:05 PM
Unfortunately you are dealing with unusually stupid people aka school officials and unusually greedy people aka politicians.
 
2013-04-20 02:13:43 PM
Why do we regard intelligence as a gift? More like a curse, if you ask me.

Remember wise old Solomon,
as wise as he could be?
He was the wisest man on Earth,
and so, he cursed the day of his birth.
He knew that all was vanity.
So, not much fun
had Solomon.
I think that we can all agree,
that we are much better off than he.
His brains, it was, that put him on the spot.
I thought that brains were good?
Guess not.

Kurt Weil/Berthold Brecht - from The Threepenny Opera
 
2013-04-20 02:14:56 PM
Intelligent children don't need help in the form of 'special' classes. No, intellectuals ... the REALLY smart people that didn't just memorize things because someone told them to ... they go home and do research on their own time. They get on the internet and look up what they're interested in that day. That could be ancient Egyptian culture, astronomy and its infinite unanswered questions, or even ghosts and the paranormal. Intelligence isn't simply stored data. Intelligence is the desire to learn new things and soak up information like a sponge. Any idiot can get straight A's by memorizing facts. But, not just any idiot will watch documentaries after finishing their homework because the WANT to LEARN. Those are the guys to watch out for. The ones that will change the world. Or, at least, have blogs that make you think.
 
2013-04-20 02:20:09 PM

ZAZ: The test is not that accurate and it's feeding into a lottery anyway.


The idea of accurately measuring mathematical ability - or indeed any other ability - in five year olds is simply absurd.
 
2013-04-20 02:24:07 PM

Mrbogey: Wodan11: Tests do an adequate job of ranking people who are good at taking tests.

A test does a decent job gauging knowledge and skill.


You missed the point.  A surprising percentage of people have varying difficulty with test taking, that does not reflect their actual knowledge, skill, and ability.  (A test does not necessarily reflect your ability to function and perform in the real world.)
 
2013-04-20 02:32:31 PM

Aidan: If I could find a group that was doing substantive things, I'd definitely be glad to hitch my wagon to that star. *tips hat*


My usual recommendation to parents seeking other resources which are generally unavailable is find ways to do this yourself. Being gifted is about development, and any little experience will help. Unfortunately, gifted is often thought of within the context of primary and secondary education, and this is the great battle the majority of advocates and educators for the gifted are pitched in, thus advocacy groups and organizations are about professional development, research, policy, identification, etc., not parent outreach.

brantgoose: Unusually smart people who work in education? Subby, you make me laugh. And so does the Far Side cartoon, even though I is gifted me self.


There is a position I refer to in my district as "the only gifted position" because this is literal in two senses. My district has a handful of quite intelligent folk working hard, but there is a mass of idiots on the national, state, district, and school levels trying hard to f*ck things up.

Qellaqan: One assigned a project while we were gone.


Our policy is any work assigned while my students are out is not required of them. Also, my students are not to bring any work to my class or other services. As well, periods such as recess are not to be used to make up any missed work or tests. No one has complained about my policy, and several have praised the policy because the program is not meant to be tacked-on. We are not random times or simply efforts to placate parents.

Aidan: where the gifted students take their own classes from their own teachers in their own rooms, and barely interact with the rest of the students in the school.


There should be a significant but not majority time spent with gifted peers, but the bigger issue is the majority of time should be spent with cognitive peers. In general, this means acceleration by a grade level or specific subject. This does not mean creating classes for the gifted alone.

Qellaqan: however I always thought the approach of the district was misguided.


The most successful schools I have interacted with are those which are gifted schools in that all teachers have a significant amount of training in education of the gifted but the student body is not entirely gifted. Rather, students are taught as though gifted because students are matched by developmental level. Simply creating an honors school or whatever will not do this.

MBrady: I'd rather have an average student with common sense and real life experience, than some "gifted and talented" book smart dope who cannot apply him/herself in real life situations.


This is a selection bias which happens because teachers who tend to be those who succeeded in academics choose those who present high abilities in the academic setting. Since the academic setting perpetuates itself via those teachers as being pencil and paper, textbook, memorization, etc., the academic setting gives few but the well-behaved, organized, and studious an opportunity to be identified; teachers are the gatekeepers in this. There are also states and districts which use standardized test scores as means to recommend or identify for gifted, further reinforcing the idea of gifted as academics. This is reinforcing, of course, because teachers and students have gone through many years of seeing the gifted as the academics.

The gifted education field is quite different, and for the last couple of decades we have been striving to expand identification instruments and procedures as we greatly expand our conception of gifted and intelligence. States cling to these objective, numerical measures, whereas theory and advocacy have shifted to nonexhaustive criteria ranked against current environment and needs of additional services focused on individual needs.
 
2013-04-20 02:38:40 PM

JPSimonetti: Intelligent children don't need help in the form of 'special' classes.


Let me state a simple "F*ck You" to such an opinion. Gifted is developmental, and motivation is but one domain of a plethora of ways to be gifted. Gifted are not necessarily self-starters or studious or enthusiastic for learning or similar by nature. Those are behaviors which are instilled by environment, family, schooling, etc.. Further, for the school to not service gifted is to waste the resources of those gifted and of the school, whether or not those gifted venture home to watch documentaries and research online and such. But, this conception of gifted as those intrinsically motivated, introverted academics is one which comes from a lack of knowledge in the field.
 
2013-04-20 02:39:57 PM
orbister: The idea of accurately measuring mathematical ability - or indeed any other ability - in five year olds is simply absurd.

Tell that to the batshiat crazy parents in NYC that torture their 3 and 4 year olds and spend thousands of dollars in order to get them into "The Best Kindergarten". Of course there is no shortage of companies that sell the idea to those on the lower half of the bell-curve that they can simply buy their child's way into the upper half of the bell-curve if they only "Act NOW! Supplies ARE Limited!!"
 
2013-04-20 02:45:22 PM

KittyGlitterSparkles: maxx2112: /csb alert

I took a "gifted & talented" test in the sixth grade and didn't make the cut.  I was very surprised by the kids who did make the cut.  I knew I was smarter.

Anyway, two weeks later, the guidance counselor tells me they made an error in scoring the test and I did make the cut, so I joined the district's gifted program

Then i found out that I hated "gifted" students.


/ stop with the farkin' puns!

Exactly. Most people in those programs are a bunch of chucklefarks.


Jeremy Lin and Lady Gaga were both in programs for gifted youth.  Would hated hanging out with those chucklefarks.
 
2013-04-20 02:46:07 PM
If that many "gifted" children are in one state or school, district;why then are so many adult americans unable to find the USA on a map; perhaps the gift is to be a banker in the US where the don't worry about those things...except for screwing all the other americans
 
2013-04-20 02:56:06 PM
There aren't
get over it
merit has no meaning, connections is all

/STEM is a meaningless AW phenomena
//DIAF
 
2013-04-20 02:59:22 PM

Aidan: Qellaqan: If we're going to do gifted, do it right.

There are full classes for gifted. I know of two programs (at least), where the gifted students take their own classes from their own teachers in their own rooms, and barely interact with the rest of the students in the school. I understand how stupid it is to single out a kid (went through it briefly), but there are immersive options, provided they're offered in your area.


There are entire schools. Several states have 2 or 3 year high schools that are state wide magnets.
 
2013-04-20 03:03:07 PM
Well, what constitutes gifted is very arbitrary.  here, the cut is not 98 or 95%, but  90% and keep in mind this is NYC and not some elite school system.  Calling any of those students around the cut "gifted" is very misleading.
 
2013-04-20 03:03:28 PM

cajunns: If that many "gifted" children are in one state or school, district;why then are so many adult americans unable to find the USA on a map; perhaps the gift is to be a banker in the US where the don't worry about those things...except for screwing all the other americans


Based on the 1.1 million served and the fact the previous number of students qualifying, 9,020, was higher than the number of seats, the percentage of students who qualify as gifted should be around 10%. Using the 9,020 number, again higher than actual seats, this is 0.8%, and across 13 grade levels, K-12, this is only 10.6%; below 8,500 seats and this would represent 10% of the student population. However, the projections for available seats is not meeting growth of student population which suggests previous years have fewer and fewer seats, further lowering the 10% figure. This assumes the system does not remove the gifted label or otherwise remove students from the program; removal of the label is unlikely, but from the program is possible, which would lower the figure more. 10% is reasonable.
 
2013-04-20 03:13:43 PM

Qellaqan: Aidan: Qellaqan: If we're going to do gifted, do it right.

There are full classes for gifted. I know of two programs (at least), where the gifted students take their own classes from their own teachers in their own rooms, and barely interact with the rest of the students in the school. I understand how stupid it is to single out a kid (went through it briefly), but there are immersive options, provided they're offered in your area.

A friend of mine went to Thomas Jefferson in DC, which I take it is kind of an honors high school. That sounds worthwhile. In St Louis, the only options were stupidly expensive privates. My hs was quite challenging (honors classes, if nothing else, got rid of the kids that enjoyed being disruptive more than learning), however I always thought the approach of the district was misguided.


I have a personal contempt for the Thomas Jefferson gifted school in Fairfax.  When it first opened, my parents looked into getting me in there.   We were told "his grades just aren't high enough", despite the fact I was getting very high grades consistently, just not straight A's.  Oh, and I was "behind in my math classes".  My dad asked, "How can he be behind in math if he's taken every math class you've offered every year, and aced it?"  The response was, "Well, he can go to summer school to catch up, but he still probably won't get in."

They were stocking the farking school so they could justify its existence.  How can I be "behind" when I've met every obligation I was told about?  Was I supposed to volunteer to take extra classes in the summer?  Jesus, I would hate to be that kind of loser.  Anyways, I thought they were pretty shiatty about it.

Not that I care now, I'm still friends with many of the people I met in high school, and got into my state school of choice.
 
2013-04-20 03:27:08 PM

born_yesterday: Qellaqan: Aidan: Qellaqan: If we're going to do gifted, do it right.

There are full classes for gifted. I know of two programs (at least), where the gifted students take their own classes from their own teachers in their own rooms, and barely interact with the rest of the students in the school. I understand how stupid it is to single out a kid (went through it briefly), but there are immersive options, provided they're offered in your area.

A friend of mine went to Thomas Jefferson in DC, which I take it is kind of an honors high school. That sounds worthwhile. In St Louis, the only options were stupidly expensive privates. My hs was quite challenging (honors classes, if nothing else, got rid of the kids that enjoyed being disruptive more than learning), however I always thought the approach of the district was misguided.

I have a personal contempt for the Thomas Jefferson gifted school in Fairfax.  When it first opened, my parents looked into getting me in there.   We were told "his grades just aren't high enough", despite the fact I was getting very high grades consistently, just not straight A's.  Oh, and I was "behind in my math classes".  My dad asked, "How can he be behind in math if he's taken every math class you've offered every year, and aced it?"  The response was, "Well, he can go to summer school to catch up, but he still probably won't get in."

They were stocking the farking school so they could justify its existence.  How can I be "behind" when I've met every obligation I was told about?  Was I supposed to volunteer to take extra classes in the summer?  Jesus, I would hate to be that kind of loser.  Anyways, I thought they were pretty shiatty about it.

Not that I care now, I'm still friends with many of the people I met in high school, and got into my state school of choice.


Sounds like you just didn't meet the standards set by the school that other applicants met... not really sure why you still carry a grude.
 
2013-04-20 03:54:37 PM
Scoring error [...] prevent

Subby was not directly affected by this, I take it.
 
2013-04-20 03:56:35 PM
We don't need a test to identify 'gifted and talented' students. We need a test to identify boneheads. Then administrators can find reasons to expel students who, frankly, will never hold a real job. We can then cut them up for organ donation. In this way, they can make a real 'contribution' to our economy.
 
2013-04-20 04:13:32 PM

born_yesterday: KittyGlitterSparkles: Those gifted programs are BS. There were many very intelligent people in my HS in many AP classes but not in the program. The kids in program just got a special room where they could screw around in their free time.

I remember not envying them in elementary school.  They got to go to their special room during recess for God's sake.  Yeah, because smart kids don't want/need to play outside.


It was worse than that for my school.  All the gifted kids in the county had to go to a special class in the high school one day a week.  I think 1-3 grade went on Tuesdays, 4-6 on Wednesdays, and 7-8 on Thursdays.  We'd ride up to three buses just to get there.  When we got back the next day, I bet you can guess what was waiting for us.  Yep, all the work we missed on the day we were off being gifted like assholes.

If I have a kid who qualifies for a gifted program I will straight out refuse to let her join.  If school is too easy, take up a sport or hobby with the free time you have after earning an A.  My gifted classmates did pretty much fill out the top 20 of our graduating class of 362, but ten years later they hadn't done anything special compared to the smart-but-ungifted kids in the class who still went on to medical school, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, etc.

One of the most gifted kids I knew graduated high school at 15, but his parents wouldn't let him leave home to go to college, so he had to go to the local community college.  When he was 18 he finally escaped and went to the nearest college but he had no social skills, couldn't get along with his roommates, got kicked out of the dorm, failed, and ended up a Waffle House cook.  His parents pushed him to skip grades, go to summer school, etc. all through his childhood and then sabotaged him at the end.  I can't understand why.  His younger sister saw how they handled him and told her parents to fark right off, graduated at 18 with her peers, went to college, and as far as I know has a decent middle class life.
 
2013-04-20 04:15:14 PM

Vangor: Aidan: If I could find a group that was doing substantive things, I'd definitely be glad to hitch my wagon to that star. *tips hat*

My usual recommendation to parents seeking other resources which are generally unavailable is find ways to do this yourself. Being gifted is about development, and any little experience will help. Unfortunately, gifted is often thought of within the context of primary and secondary education, and this is the great battle the majority of advocates and educators for the gifted are pitched in, thus advocacy groups and organizations are about professional development, research, policy, identification, etc., not parent outreach.


Aye. Doing that. I just find it frustrating that so many people and companies complain about the lack of focus on STEM education and then turn around and provide nothing but posters and bookmarks for kids of all ages. Like any kid was inspired to become an engineer because of a pretty poster. Lookin' at you, NASA. :\

Aidan: where the gifted students take their own classes from their own teachers in their own rooms, and barely interact with the rest of the students in the school.

There should be a significant but not majority time spent with gifted peers, but the bigger issue is the majority of time should be spent with cognitive peers. In general, this means acceleration by a grade level or specific subject.


Well now you're talking! Ten years you say? :) Ironically the only time I experienced that kind of grouping was in non-gifted elementary, and only in one class. Still, I'd love to see that across all students, as we both said up-thread.
 
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