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(Huffington Post)   Lindsey Graham says that the Constitution doesn't apply to Americans with funny names and dark hair   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 383
    More: Sick, Lindsey Graham, Mirandize, Boston, Americans, underwear bomber, Chechen, enemy combatant, ndaa  
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8957 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Apr 2013 at 2:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-21 08:34:49 AM  

Amos Quito: Kittypie070: Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!

More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you - where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast - man's laws, not God's - and if you cut them down - and you're just the man to do it - d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.

Missed this JEWEL of a comment until timelady posted reference to it above.

Most apropos. Bravo.


Extra Catnip and FancyFeast for you, KP.

4/20?

;-)


**blush**

Thanks.

;3
 
2013-04-21 08:57:17 AM  
In other words, Amos Quito's unwillingness to commit to a policy position is supposed to be evidence of his intellectual integrity.
 
2013-04-21 09:45:41 AM  

vygramul: In other words, Amos Quito's unwillingness to commit to a policy position is supposed to be evidence of his intellectual integrity.


Sometimes he's funny though.

I think of him as a court jester.
 
2013-04-21 10:01:05 AM  
THIS IS THE HYPOCRISY WARNING SYSTEM. THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HAS DETECTED DANGEROUS LEVELS OF HYPOCRISY IN YOUR AREA. TAKE COVER IMMEDIATELY.

I must have missed all the outrage about the Constitution being torn up when I read post-capture on CNN how law enforcement announced they were not reading him his Miranda rights.  Surprisingly, CNN has NOT flushed that down the memory hole and seems to still be running with it.

And what's this?  It looks like only two days ago somebody at the Huff Po thought it was newsworthy but not worth criticism when it was announced by the Justice Department.  Funny that.  I guess when a Republican says it, it's facism, but when the Democrats in charge actually do it, it's for our protection.
 
2013-04-21 10:54:55 AM  

Prussian_Roulette: THIS IS THE HYPOCRISY WARNING SYSTEM. THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HAS DETECTED DANGEROUS LEVELS OF HYPOCRISY IN YOUR AREA. TAKE COVER IMMEDIATELY.

I must have missed all the outrage about the Constitution being torn up when I read post-capture on CNN how law enforcement announced they were not reading him his Miranda rights.  Surprisingly, CNN has NOT flushed that down the memory hole and seems to still be running with it.

And what's this?  It looks like only two days ago somebody at the Huff Po thought it was newsworthy but not worth criticism when it was announced by the Justice Department.  Funny that.  I guess when a Republican says it, it's facism, but when the Democrats in charge actually do it, it's for our protection.


that's different, obama has the white hat on. he really cares.
 
2013-04-21 11:06:52 AM  
I just wish I didn't have to see his stupid face any more. The face of a crooked mayor in some grade B Smokey and the Bandit movie.

Ugh.
 
2013-04-21 12:24:37 PM  

Prussian_Roulette: I must have missed all the outrage about the Constitution being torn up when I read post-capture on CNN how law enforcement announced they were not reading him his Miranda rights. Surprisingly, CNN has NOT flushed that down the memory hole and seems to still be running with it.

And what's this? It looks like only two days ago somebody at the Huff Po thought it was newsworthy but not worth criticism when it was announced by the Justice Department. Funny that. I guess when a Republican says it, it's facism, but when the Democrats in charge actually do it, it's for our protection.


FTA: The public safety exception dates back to a 1984 case, New York v. Quarles.

Damn that guy and his Time Machine.
 
2013-04-21 12:37:14 PM  
Amos Quito

Thanks!
 
2013-04-21 12:59:19 PM  
The bombing suspect is an american citizen.
What he is alleged to have done is a criminal act.
He should get a trial like any other american citizen for what he is accused to have done.

Lindsey Graham, on the other hand, should be shot on sight.
/just a flesh wound
//in the fleshy part of his brain
 
2013-04-21 01:12:38 PM  

TsukasaK: the ha ha guy: When liberals say: "We should make it easier to enforce the federal bans against criminals buying guns."
Conservatives hear: "We should make it easier to enforce the federal bans against criminals buying guns."

Actually, liberals (speaking for myself hear) "We should pass knee jerk legislation that wouldn't have stopped any of the recent shootings".

I'm all about doing things that actually might help and don't trample on the rights of the law abiding. By all means, raise my taxes and make mental health care something less of a joke. I'm all for background checks on commercial sales.

Requiring a background check for a private sale? No. Magazine restrictions? No.


Private sale and Commercial sale. Same Gun, Same moron trying to buy it. Why is this different?

\I'm sure there are families out there who sell each other the same guns every f'ing saturday, all year long. They'll get over it, I'm bet.
\\Seriously, it's as if some gun owners think they're the only responsible gun owner, and therefore everyone that owns a gun is a responsible gun owner
\\\it would be impossible for Howard down the street to go berkshire one day and shoot up the hardware store with his semi-automatic rifle and backpack full of deer-hunting 15 round magazines
\\\\but if he did, it's be Obama's fault, of that I am sure
 
2013-04-21 01:14:43 PM  
fyi   popehat has a very good article regarding the right to remain silent

i recomend it
 
2013-04-21 01:35:12 PM  

bindlestiff2600: fyi   popehat has a very good article regarding the right to remain silent

i recomend it


Yeah, it's a good article, but it's also beside the point. Look, these weren't two pros who were trained and prepared for capture...who could remain silent while the rest of the team got clear. We're talking a snot-nosed 19-year old who idolized his big brother. When the FBI tells him his brother is dead, and that they're just looking to clean up any other potential bombs out there, he will sing like the proverbial bird. They string him along as long as they can to get as much info as they can, but I don't see this kid waking up and thinking, "Okay, say NOTHING! Demand a lawyer! Pretend to be too out of it to understand their questions!"

Sooner or later he will get a lawyer, who will talk him into fully cooperating in return for avoiding the death penalty, presuming he hasn't already waived/sung. But be a tough guy who holds out, Timothy McVeigh-style to the bitter end? I don't see it happening.
 
2013-04-21 01:40:55 PM  
DNRTFT but if Sen. Graham wants the kid to be an enemy combatant then can Jeff Bauman Jr.'s medical bills be paid by the VA?
 
2013-04-21 02:28:44 PM  

CheapEngineer: Why is this different?


Because I don't require government permission to sell any other item I might come into possession of. Why should I have to ask permission to sell something that I and ostensibly the guy buying have an explicit right to?

(And before you say car, money can change hands, I just can't get a license until the registration is sorted out. I still own the car.)

CheapEngineer: \\\it would be impossible for Howard down the street to go berkshire one day and shoot up the hardware store with his semi-automatic rifle and backpack full of deer-hunting 15 round magazines


Actually, given the recent shenanigans, it seems more likely for him to take someone else's guns and go crazy with those. You know, from the guy who passed his background check. But tell me more about how background checks will stop all this crime, please.
 
2013-04-21 02:30:30 PM  

the ha ha guy: On the "gun control" side of things, It would have added mental health records to the NICS, and eliminated some situations where people could buy guns commercially without going through the background check.

And on the pro-gun side, it would have criminalized the creation of a gun registry, retained the exemptions for private sales, allowed interstate sales of handguns, given mentally ill veterans more chances to appeal, and anyone with a CCW permit would be exempt from background checks entirely.


Sounds entirely reasonable, then.

Still kneejerk-y, especially given Obama's comments and the Dem's posturing, considering that it wouldn't have farking stopped Sandy Hook, but the law itself is completely reasonable.
 
2013-04-21 02:38:10 PM  

TsukasaK: the ha ha guy: On the "gun control" side of things, It would have added mental health records to the NICS, and eliminated some situations where people could buy guns commercially without going through the background check.

And on the pro-gun side, it would have criminalized the creation of a gun registry, retained the exemptions for private sales, allowed interstate sales of handguns, given mentally ill veterans more chances to appeal, and anyone with a CCW permit would be exempt from background checks entirely.

Sounds entirely reasonable, then.

Still kneejerk-y, especially given Obama's comments and the Dem's posturing, considering that it wouldn't have farking stopped Sandy Hook, but the law itself is completely reasonable.


Knee-jerk is the name of the game when the second-amendment is involved, see the gun-nut opposition involving UN black Helicopter conspiracy theories.

Interstate sales would be nice, it's always annoying when you want to order something online and can't.
 
2013-04-21 03:06:14 PM  

TsukasaK: CheapEngineer: Why is this different?

Because I don't require government permission to sell any other item I might come into possession of. Why should I have to ask permission to sell something that I and ostensibly the guy buying have an explicit right to?


Really?

So if you happen to come into possession of illegal drugs, dangerous chemicals, or exotic invasive animal or plant species, the government doesn't care if you sell those?
 
2013-04-21 03:42:22 PM  
hold off on mirandizing him until you're satisfied there is no immediate threat, read him his rights, put him in jail forever via civilian courts. Simple
 
2013-04-21 03:54:54 PM  

TsukasaK: CheapEngineer: Why is this different?

Because I don't require government permission to sell any other item I might come into possession of. Why should I have to ask permission to sell something that I and ostensibly the guy buying have an explicit right to?

(And before you say car, money can change hands, I just can't get a license until the registration is sorted out. I still own the car.)

CheapEngineer: \\\it would be impossible for Howard down the street to go berkshire one day and shoot up the hardware store with his semi-automatic rifle and backpack full of deer-hunting 15 round magazines

Actually, given the recent shenanigans, it seems more likely for him to take someone else's guns and go crazy with those. You know, from the guy who passed his background check. But tell me more about how background checks will stop all this crime, please.


Nice strawman. No one is claiming that any of these rules would stop all this crime, I believe the *hope* would be that it might catch a few people that fall through the cracks. But then, you'd have to look at the idea on it's merits, and counter propose something else that might help. I can see it's much easier to just make up things, and then argue against them.

I expect that's why you're on Fark.

\so, since the last 2 publicized shootings happened this way, they all do
\\so vote Republican
 
2013-04-21 03:55:53 PM  

whidbey: Brubold: Yes it's so satisfying to know that if you don't get locked up in a dark hole by our government with no legal recourse then you can enjoy some of the changes Obama has made. If you even approve of the changes to begin with.

Changes you probably don't approve of anyway, right? And who's being "locked up in a dark hole," exactly?

Obama has been worse than Bush in regard to taking our rights away and lack of transparency. And that's pretty farking bad by anyone's standards.

I agree it sucks that the militant fascism Bush introduced into our culture hasn't been lifted yet. It's going to ultimately fark Obama in the history books. But he's trying to do it right, by having Congress do its job. You obviously want some kind of dictator who sets an even worse precedent.


I don't know where you get that from what I said. I want Obama to grow a farking spine. If he really is against these things then he needs to take a stand and not sign the bills. Either that or just be honest that he agrees with our new fascist police state. Personally I think it's the latter that's true. Just like the Democrats kept crying about the Patriot Act but kept voting to pass it. They're just playing their voters for fools and the voters are obliging them.
 
2013-04-21 04:09:09 PM  

Dafatone: So if you happen to come into possession of illegal drugs, dangerous chemicals, or exotic invasive animal or plant species, the government doesn't care if you sell those?


So did you just completely ignore the second half of my sentence or?

CheapEngineer: But then, you'd have to look at the idea on it's merits, and counter propose something else that might help.


On it's merits? Okay then.

I propose that your idea will do little to nothing to stop actual criminals, will increase theft of firearms from the innocent (not to mention the violence that goes along with that), reduce our freedom as a people, and advance one step down the slope of firearm confiscation from all. It  has happened in other countries, and it always starts with the database.
 
2013-04-21 04:21:31 PM  

TsukasaK: Dafatone: So if you happen to come into possession of illegal drugs, dangerous chemicals, or exotic invasive animal or plant species, the government doesn't care if you sell those?

So did you just completely ignore the second half of my sentence or?


That was the whole sentence.  If you mean the next sentence you wrote, then sure, there's an explicit constitutional right to guns.  This doesn't mean that the sale of guns is never regulated at all ever, and the courts agree there.
 
2013-04-21 05:51:58 PM  
This rush to trample Tsarnaev's civil rights is really outrageous. Let's handle it in the traditional Obama Administration fashion by releasing him in Pakistan and droning his ass.

i34.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-21 05:53:59 PM  

FlashHarry: lindsey graham is a disgrace. he is an america-hating piece of garbage who should be kicked out of congress.



That's pretty much all that needs said about this topic.
 
2013-04-21 05:57:02 PM  
i'm pretty sure i heard lindsey graham say something about a bomb - and i'm pretty sure he hates america. we should probably detain him. and since he's obviously an "enemy combatant," i don't think we should bother with that pesky constitutional stuff.
 
2013-04-21 06:34:51 PM  

FlashHarry: i'm pretty sure i heard lindsey graham say something about a bomb - and i'm pretty sure he hates america. we should probably detain him. and since he's obviously an "enemy combatant," i don't think we should bother with that pesky constitutional stuff.


Flash Harry also forgot to add that he comes from a "state" that declared war on the United States by firing on U.S. troops at a place called Fort Sumter (granted it was a few years ago so Flash Harry could easily forgotten about it).
 
2013-04-21 07:25:29 PM  

Dafatone: TsukasaK: Dafatone: So if you happen to come into possession of illegal drugs, dangerous chemicals, or exotic invasive animal or plant species, the government doesn't care if you sell those?

So did you just completely ignore the second half of my sentence or?

That was the whole sentence.  If you mean the next sentence you wrote, then sure, there's an explicit constitutional right to guns.  This doesn't mean that the sale of guns is never regulated at all ever, and the courts agree there.


Christ, pedantic much?

Also, when did I ask for no regulation whatsoever? I think the regulation we have is sufficient, and no amount of gun control regulation will stop someone determined from going on a murder spree from getting one. When you're planning murder, theft is a drop in the bucket.
 
2013-04-21 07:25:55 PM  
<A HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/20/boston-mara thon-dz hokhar-tsarnaev-mirnada-rights">Graham is guilty of saying outloud, and too enthusiastically, something which has been close to bipartisan consensus for a while now</A>
 
2013-04-21 09:00:27 PM  

jjorsett: This rush to trample Tsarnaev's civil rights is really outrageous. Let's handle it in the traditional Obama Administration fashion by releasing him in Pakistan and droning his ass.

[i34.tinypic.com image 531x341]


Did Tsarnaev publicly denounce his citizenship, swear loyalty to our enemy, flee the country to join up with his new friends, and actively plot against us? No? Then stop using stupid comparisons to justify your biatch-whining.
 
2013-04-21 10:39:38 PM  

the ha ha guy: NewportBarGuy: The_Sponge: t's amusing how you care about those rights, but don't give a shiat about Second Amendment rights.

Actually, I do. I just focus on the well-regulated part that you want to ignore.


When liberals say: "We should make it easier to enforce the federal bans against criminals buying guns."
Conservatives hear: "We should make it easier to enforce the federal bans against criminals buying guns."


THIS. Having just come from a camping trip with two conspiracy theorists, I swear they had no idea what laws actually  meant.

/Awesome ladies, just...o.O
 
2013-04-21 10:46:33 PM  

TsukasaK: Dafatone: So if you happen to come into possession of illegal drugs, dangerous chemicals, or exotic invasive animal or plant species, the government doesn't care if you sell those?

So did you just completely ignore the second half of my sentence or?

CheapEngineer: But then, you'd have to look at the idea on it's merits, and counter propose something else that might help.

On it's merits? Okay then.

I propose that your idea will do little to nothing to stop actual criminals, will increase theft of firearms from the innocent (not to mention the violence that goes along with that), reduce our freedom as a people, and advance one step down the slope of firearm confiscation from all. It  has happened in other countries, and it always starts with the database.


You forgot Embolden our Enemies, Spread Communism, Contribute to Hair Loss and Accelerate Global Warming/Cooling/Chemtrails.

I have very little faith in our government myself, but you're at another level of fear and paranoia. I guess that high blood pressure will solve all of our problems soon enough. Personally, I try to remain optimistic and work within the flawed system we have. If you believe that everything we touch is gonna be corrupted in the worst possible way at every opportunity then you're safe, but you're gonna have a pretty miserable time on this earth.

Either the system works, or it's always gonna fail you. If it always fails, why are you worried about the bill of rights at all? Why pound on the keyboard at us idiots if everyone here is a blind idiot but you?

Have a cookie, and enjoy some sunshine.
 
2013-04-21 11:38:30 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: jjorsett: This rush to trample Tsarnaev's civil rights is really outrageous. Let's handle it in the traditional Obama Administration fashion by releasing him in Pakistan and droning his ass.

[i34.tinypic.com image 531x341]

Did Tsarnaev publicly denounce his citizenship, swear loyalty to our enemy, flee the country to join up with his new friends, and actively plot against us? No? Then stop using stupid comparisons to justify your biatch-whining.



It's hilarious that some right wingers have let their hatred of Obama become so heavy that they actually white knight an Al Qaeda member who plotted against the U.S.
 
2013-04-21 11:49:51 PM  

stoli n coke: Keizer_Ghidorah: jjorsett: This rush to trample Tsarnaev's civil rights is really outrageous. Let's handle it in the traditional Obama Administration fashion by releasing him in Pakistan and droning his ass.

[i34.tinypic.com image 531x341]

Did Tsarnaev publicly denounce his citizenship, swear loyalty to our enemy, flee the country to join up with his new friends, and actively plot against us? No? Then stop using stupid comparisons to justify your biatch-whining.


It's hilarious that some right wingers have let their hatred of Obama become so heavy that they actually white knight an Al Qaeda member who plotted against the U.S.


You realize that you two are making opposing arguments, right?

What's really interesting is that Obama sycophants apply the Constitution's protections so selectively.
 
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