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(io9)   10 once-great TV shows (and the exact moments they started to suck) Missing from the list: The opening credits from the first episode of Star Trek Voyager & Enterprise   (io9.com) divider line 177
    More: Amusing, television shows, love triangles, Laura Palmer, Mulder, BSG, Game of Thrones, galactic empire, Sylar  
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11452 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 20 Apr 2013 at 8:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-20 10:00:47 AM  

PacificaFitz: Tom Paris?  Harry Kim?  Captain Janeway?  Tuvak?  Chikote?  Belana?  How can you say they didn't have good charecters?


Very, very easily.

Their characters changed episode-to-episode depending on what the plot required of them. One episode Janeway would rather blow up her own ship and let a planet's worth of innocents die than violate the Prime Directive, the next week she'd be doing it for kicks.

That said, at least Kate Mulgrew was a decent actress. The semi-animated mannequin they got to play Chakotay was usually out-acted by the set dressing.
 
2013-04-20 10:03:41 AM  

bikkurikun: A pretty sound list, I am only missing Eureka; they did the same stupid thing as Fringe, I couldn't get myself interested after they moved to an alternate future.

Don't agree with Supernatural though; it's still fun, although probably it would be a good idea to stop now.

And I am tired of Doctor Who as well; time to let him rest again for a decade or so.


No, you're tired of the Russel T. Davies/Steven Moffat Mostest Specialest Girl in All the Universe Show (and maybe Matt Smith, depending on your preference in Doctors). That's the wonderful thing about Doctor Who... every 4 years or so, the cast and crew changes and it's a brand new show.

And, hey, it's been 3 years with Moffat and Smith...
 
2013-04-20 10:03:47 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: all this Fringe talk and no Anna Torv pics? Shame, shame


i151.photobucket.comi151.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-20 10:03:56 AM  

NeoCortex42: whizbangthedirtfarmer: I know a lot of people diss BSG, but it remains one of the greatest sci-fi shows ever.  Yes, there were weak episodes, but compare it, to say, Star Trek: TNG, where even the reviewers say stuff like, well, there were four of five really good episodes in this twenty-two episode season, so IT IS THE GREATEST SCIFI WE'VE EVER SEEN.  Ridiculous.  Even the worst episodes of BSG are better than most of the best episodes of TNG.

The difference between the two was that BSG was trying to be a highly-serialized show, but made no effort at all to plan ahead.  Like the article said, the writers killed and resurrected Starbuck simply because the thought it would be cool.  They had no idea at the time how they were going to explain it.  The Opera House is another example of them coming up with a cool scene with no expected payoff for it.


This is a problem that plagues a lot of shows, mostly because of the "will we cancel it or won't we" thing that the networks do.  Farscape should have been (and was, for the most part) a spectacular show, but they had to rush at the end of season three to figure out what the hell to do with season four.  And then see it cancelled anyway after that.  Remember that the writers had a good plan for a five-year run to begin with, almost completely mapped out.  Ditto with Fringe, which started off very strong for three seasons, then kinda got boxed in for the final two.  Still a lot of good episodes there, but you could tell the writers were struggling to figure out what to do next.

With BSG, I think some of the same thing occured: they had an uber-successful miniseries, and then, as the network started to do its song and dance routine, found that they had to stretch out more than what they felt.  Someone else mentioned this, but BSG would have been better served by a British-style 10 or 12 episode run.  Even so, and I've said this before, sci-fi fans are so used to the concept of shiatty sci-fi that we often take a heaping helping of shiat in order to find that ONE REALLY GOOD EPISODE.  Hence, my Star Trek: TNG analogy, where even the reviewers said things like, hey, season two was awesome, even though 3/4 of it was total shiat.
 
2013-04-20 10:09:14 AM  
Anyone who didn't like the new Battlestar Galactica is a Chechen terrorist.

Lost was one season of show stretched into six seasons....

Sliders was painfully bad after the second season.
 
2013-04-20 10:11:32 AM  

Neeek: TFA: The show stumbled somewhat in its third season, with the boxing episode and a boring love triangle.

The boxing episode is widely regarded as one of the best episodes of the series, and probably TV in general.


Article goes on to say :" justice league: star crossed is where the series jumped the shark pitiably and never looked back in a long downhill slide."
 
2013-04-20 10:21:07 AM  

jake3988: Wow, they consider 'Lois and Clark' a great tv series? I thought I was the only person on planet Earth that thought that!

Pity they removed it from netflix 18 months ago or so, I loved rewatching the episodes. It's kinda cheesier than I remember, but it was still a great show.


What was the name of the time traveling guy?  He did one episode every year and was always the best episode of the seasons.
 
2013-04-20 10:21:18 AM  
24.media.tumblr.com

I wouldn't say it sucked at Sci-Fi, but I missed Forrester and Frank. The segue pieces became tiresome.
 
2013-04-20 10:28:31 AM  

T-Servo: [24.media.tumblr.com image 425x288]

I wouldn't say it sucked at Sci-Fi, but I missed Forrester and Frank. The segue pieces became tiresome.


eh, those segments were always kind of hit or miss. The movie portions were just as good as anything from the Comedy Central-era, though.
 
2013-04-20 10:29:23 AM  

PacificaFitz: Tom Paris?  Harry Kim?  Captain Janeway?  Tuvak?  Chikote?  Belana?  How can you say they didn't have good charecters?


Tuvak? Tuvak was just black spock. "That is not logical" etc, plus a Pon Farr episode.
 
2013-04-20 10:30:42 AM  
Sigh, Lois & Clark.  It was awesome while it lasted.
 
2013-04-20 10:32:07 AM  

FeedTheCollapse: T-Servo: [24.media.tumblr.com image 425x288]

I wouldn't say it sucked at Sci-Fi, but I missed Forrester and Frank. The segue pieces became tiresome.

eh, those segments were always kind of hit or miss. The movie portions were just as good as anything from the Comedy Central-era, though.


I always FFW'd the host segments no matter what season but I liked the movies during the Sci-Fi years best.


farkeruk: Tuvak? Tuvak was just black spock.


Only less interesting because he was a pure Vulcan, which is boring.
 
2013-04-20 10:32:27 AM  

jake3988: Wow, they consider 'Lois and Clark' a great tv series? I thought I was the only person on planet Earth that thought that!

Pity they removed it from netflix 18 months ago or so, I loved rewatching the episodes. It's kinda cheesier than I remember, but it was still a great show.


This.
 
2013-04-20 10:33:17 AM  

Neeek: TFA: The show stumbled somewhat in its third season, with the boxing episode and a boring love triangle.

The boxing episode is widely regarded as one of the best episodes of the series, and probably TV in general.


so, just trolling?
meh
1/100
 
2013-04-20 10:40:15 AM  

T-Servo: [24.media.tumblr.com image 425x288]

I wouldn't say it sucked at Sci-Fi, but I missed Forrester and Frank. The segue pieces became tiresome.


I loved Forrester and Frank, but I still liked the Sci-Fi-era host segments better. The invention exchanges always felt like recycled gags from a failed prop comic (because they were), and the Joel-era segments always felt like they were there to fill time, not because somebody thought they were truly funny.
 
2013-04-20 10:41:43 AM  

T-Servo: [24.media.tumblr.com image 425x288]

I wouldn't say it sucked at Sci-Fi, but I missed Forrester and Frank. The segue pieces became tiresome.


I think the Sci-Fi years were the high point of the show as far as movie selection and riffing goes.  The riff writing was as tight as ever and the movies gave us the likes of Puma Man, Overdrawn at the Memory Bank, and Space Mutiny.  The host segments were generally terrible, but they're a very small part of the show.

What really hurt the segments was Sci-Fi Channel's insistence that the host segments be serialized.  So we ended up with Planet of the Apes, The Observers, Lost in Space, and Ancient Rome.  Once they got to the last season, Sci-Fi stopped ordering them around and allowed them to just hang out in the castle and have non-science fiction films and shorts again.
 
2013-04-20 10:48:51 AM  

FeedTheCollapse: T-Servo: [24.media.tumblr.com image 425x288]

I wouldn't say it sucked at Sci-Fi, but I missed Forrester and Frank. The segue pieces became tiresome.

eh, those segments were always kind of hit or miss. The movie portions were just as good as anything from the Comedy Central-era, though.


Agreed on both points. The earlier ones had stinkers ("Side hackin' is the thing to do") and Pearl & Co had some good ones (Bobo making a sandwich out of Observer's brain). But I'd say the good/bad ratios were better when it was Forrester & Frank. And the best of Pearl & Co never reached the heights of the best of Forrester & Frank.
 
2013-04-20 11:01:15 AM  
FTA: 6) Lost
This show was always about the relationships, more than about the plot mechanics or big mysteries. My theory is always that when people say "I didn't get enough answers from Lost," they really mean, "I didn't get enough resolution with the characters, where all of this wound up meaning something to them."


Yeah, this is where I went from "I can see that." to "This is utter bullshiate." When I say "I didn't get enough answers from Lost." I mean "I DIDN'T GET ENOUGH ANSWERS FROM LOST." I didn't tune in to see who Kate was farking this week, or whether Sawyer and Juliette were going to make it as a couple, or if Hurley was going to find love. I tuned into find out more about the Dharma project. I wanted to know why there was time travel. I wanted more information about the Others. I wanted more Richard. Why was Walt important? Etc. The relationships were nice, but I didn't care about them. Heck, I didn't even like half the characters. If there hadn't been the mysteries of the show I would have dropped it halfway through the first season.

So the idea that "I didn't get enough resolution with the characters" is insulting.
 
2013-04-20 11:05:16 AM  

RexTalionis: Enterprise was crappy for the first season (like every Star Trek series), but by the middle of the 2nd season, they were improving a lot. When they hit season 3 and they went into the overarching arch structure, they hit their stride.

Voyager's first episode was okay. It started to suck pretty quickly though and only improved enough to the point of watchability around maybe season 6.


Completely agree on Enterprise.

My main problem with Voyager was that each season had a handful of good episodes scattered among a lot of crap. I didn't feel like I could even rate one season as significantly better than another.
 
2013-04-20 11:06:58 AM  

Techhell: FTA: 6) Lost
This show was always about the relationships, more than about the plot mechanics or big mysteries. My theory is always that when people say "I didn't get enough answers from Lost," they really mean, "I didn't get enough resolution with the characters, where all of this wound up meaning something to them."

Yeah, this is where I went from "I can see that." to "This is utter bullshiate." When I say "I didn't get enough answers from Lost." I mean "I DIDN'T GET ENOUGH ANSWERS FROM LOST." I didn't tune in to see who Kate was farking this week, or whether Sawyer and Juliette were going to make it as a couple, or if Hurley was going to find love. I tuned into find out more about the Dharma project. I wanted to know why there was time travel. I wanted more information about the Others. I wanted more Richard. Why was Walt important? Etc. The relationships were nice, but I didn't care about them. Heck, I didn't even like half the characters. If there hadn't been the mysteries of the show I would have dropped it halfway through the first season.

So the idea that "I didn't get enough resolution with the characters" is insulting.


Almost all of the mysteries on the show were explained.  However, some of them were explained outside the show (mini-sodes, ARG, the epilogue on the DVD sets, etc).  Also, some of the answers simply sucked.  How did the island time travel?  By mixing the light and water.  Yes, that's a farking terrible answer, but it is an answer.
 
2013-04-20 11:07:51 AM  
Would also include Red Dwarf on this list.  Started going off the rails when they lost the ship and the show was entirely set on the Starbug, and then completely derailed when Rimmer left and we got (fake) Kochanski as a replacement.  I stopped watching about 4 episodes into the season where they find the Dwarf with all crew (including Rimmer) reconstructed via nanobots.
 
2013-04-20 11:07:57 AM  

Gunther: PacificaFitz: Tom Paris?  Harry Kim?  Captain Janeway?  Tuvak?  Chikote?  Belana?  How can you say they didn't have good charecters?

Very, very easily.

Their characters changed episode-to-episode depending on what the plot required of them. One episode Janeway would rather blow up her own ship and let a planet's worth of innocents die than violate the Prime Directive, the next week she'd be doing it for kicks.

That said, at least Kate Mulgrew was a decent actress. The semi-animated mannequin they got to play Chakotay was usually out-acted by the set dressing.


The woman had the voice of a muppet. I couldn't listen to her without laughing.
 
2013-04-20 11:08:13 AM  

Richard Sauce: RexTalionis: Enterprise was crappy for the first season (like every Star Trek series), but by the middle of the 2nd season, they were improving a lot. When they hit season 3 and they went into the overarching arch structure, they hit their stride.

Voyager's first episode was okay. It started to suck pretty quickly though and only improved enough to the point of watchability around maybe season 6.

Completely agree on Enterprise.

My main problem with Voyager was that each season had a handful of good episodes scattered among a lot of crap. I didn't feel like I could even rate one season as significantly better than another.


I think there's probably one solid season worth of episodes in Voyager, maybe even two.  They wouldn't all be great episodes, but it wouldn't be the crapfest of the show taken as a whole.
 
2013-04-20 11:15:52 AM  
PacificaFitz , this is the single best troll job on fark I've seen.

And it's even better if you're being serious.

10/10

Hint: When 99% of everyone else think a show sucked and you didn't, it means to look at you, not try to correct them.
 
2013-04-20 11:18:49 AM  

I. M. Foreman: Would also include Red Dwarf on this list.  Started going off the rails when they lost the ship and the show was entirely set on the Starbug, and then completely derailed when Rimmer left and we got (fake) Kochanski as a replacement.  I stopped watching about 4 episodes into the season where they find the Dwarf with all crew (including Rimmer) reconstructed via nanobots.


"Back to Earth" was tolerable.  It wasn't great, but it's worth a watch.  Series X was decent.  It wasn't as good as the early seasons of the show, but it was a hell of a lot better than the later seasons.

RockofAges: Just watched all of VOY, DS9, TNG, TOS, and ENT over the past year.

All good shows. I'm sure Neo here will obviously say DS9 was the best (the favourite for smart marks, to borrow a wrestling phrase). Personally, I thought DS9 was pretty damn good but that Sisko sadly had a tendency to overact FAR worse than Janeway could "underact".

I would personally say they are all very enjoyable shows with their own pros and cons. DS9 could be a bit too cerebral / political / mystical. I mean really, who cares about in-canon politics? The thematic and philosophical points raised by TNG were much more timeless. In-canon politics don't really provide any exterior satisfaction.

Voyager stands on its own quite well. Paris and Tuvok were actually quite good characters. Tuvok, in particular, is a very nuanced character when you actually sit down and watch it.


I agree with all of this.  I consider DS9 to be the strongest show as a whole.  TNG had much better and more memorable "great" episodes, but DS9 was overall more consistent than the other series.  Seasons 1 and 2 of TNG (aside from a few exceptions) are terrible.  The last season or two weren't great, either.  Voyager has it's moments, but it's bad episodes are on par with the worst of TOS.
 
2013-04-20 11:24:02 AM  

taxandspend: I was kind of expecting more current shows to be on there, like:

The Office after Michael Scott left.
Community starting with episode "History 101"
Glee after "Sectionals"
SVU after hottie Christopher Meloni left.

But then I read the list and realized it was nothing but Sci-Fi/Fantasy shows.


Dude...it's io9.
 
2013-04-20 11:34:12 AM  

taxandspend: The Office after Michael Scott left.


a lot of people like to cite Michael's departure from the show as when they show started to suck, but I thought the show, and michael especially, had been pretty terrible since Greg Daniels left after season 4. The last season wasn't that bad, though I think it's failure was mostly just due to bad writing. I would say the first half of the most recent season was much better than the past few seasons.

... though the latter half of the current season is rather crap.


taxandspend: Community starting with episode "History 101"


eh, I'll agree that this season has been pretty weak, but I don't think that was a particularly bad episode. I think the Inspector Spacetime episode was much more disappointing.
 
2013-04-20 11:35:23 AM  

Neeek: TFA: The show stumbled somewhat in its third season, with the boxing episode and a boring love triangle.

The boxing episode is widely regarded as one of the best episodes of the series, and probably TV in general.


Unfinished Business was one of my favorite episodes. I will agree though with how nonsensical it was to kill off/resurrect Starbuck...but the real turning point for me was the great "Final Five" reveal. The writers proved they had no plan with that clusterfrak of a storyline. :(

Still, BSG was a fantastic series overall.

/just pretend season 4.5 never happened
 
2013-04-20 11:44:08 AM  

namatad: 1) BSG - started sucking mid season two, most of 3, a lot of 4. Four, 10 episode season would have made for an AMAZING series. Four, 20 episode seasons = lots of filler episodes. ooooo black markets are bad, but we will always have them. lolol

2) heroes - came late to the party. Season 1, awesome. Season 2, ok at times. Couldnt finish the rest. WTF, happened with Sylar??? LOL

3) x-files - what are they talking about? there were more seasons after the movie came out? LIES

4) fringe - lol - I watched it. I still have no idea what they were doing.

5) blake's 7 - LOL - It was great/ok for a kids show. Would rather die than watch it again.

6) Lost - never watched it. people say I should ...

7) superman? ever? just say no. but the new movie looks good ...dammit

8) sliders

9) twin peaks - david lynch is a festering abortion

10) supernatural - crap, was this actually good? do I have to watch it now? dammit


I was just introduced to Supernatural a few months ago. Through Netflix Im totally caught up. I'm at a loss as for why a show thats so good is on the CW, and that I'd never really heard of it before. The Winchesters are baddass. The show doesn't really suck now, but man, seasons 2 through 5 were really good. But, as long as its on, I'll gladly hop in the Impala and see what kind of shait needs to be hunted every week.
 
2013-04-20 12:01:55 PM  
I love Supernatural. I think the show has Sagged in the last few years, but mainly because the new writers can't end a season well. Season Six's ending irkid the ever loving hell out of me. The metaplot of Six and Seven were great, until they crapped the bed. This season's metaplot is just boring to me, aside from the Naomi business.

I have other issues with Supernatural too, but overall I <3 the show.

Surprised Six Feet Under didnt' make the list.
 
2013-04-20 12:08:53 PM  

Lackofname: I love Supernatural. I think the show has Sagged in the last few years, but mainly because the new writers can't end a season well.


That and they're running out of creatures to fight. They went through pretty much everything in the Monster Manual, plus Lucifer. But it's the CW (is that what UPN is called this week?) so it'll be on another 10 years. Fine by me.

/met Bella (Maggie from The Walking Dead) at comicon a couple weeks back
//her natural British accent...rrrawrr
 
2013-04-20 12:12:16 PM  
As others have noted, BSG started to go bad before the end of season 2. It took some time building up to the boring mess it became, which makes me wonder if some people ever noticed. I just don't get how people defend that show's latter half unless they just let themselves be led into crap and couldn't tell the difference.

One thing BSG did was make me wary of TV series. I've never been one to watch much of them, but after that experience I vowed never to start another that wasn't completely wrapped up. I'm not going to get invested in another series only to have it turn stupid, leaving me with a sense of duty to finish it and see where it ends up. As good as that first season of BSG was, it wasn't worth sitting through most of the rest of it.
 
2013-04-20 12:14:27 PM  
Supernatural doesn't hit it out of the park every episode, but comparing the hits to the misses, hits win out big time.

The only complaint I have about it is how dark it is.  Not the writing or plot lines, but how it seems like 90% of the time the show is shot in almost pitch black.  It's extremely hard to figure out what is going on when it's differentiating between different shades of grey.
 
2013-04-20 12:18:16 PM  

NeoCortex42: The difference between the two was that BSG was trying to be a highly-serialized show, but made no effort at all to plan ahead.  Like the article said, the writers killed and resurrected Starbuck simply because the thought it would be cool.  They had no idea at the time how they were going to explain it.  The Opera House is another example of them coming up with a cool scene with no expected payoff for it.


And that lack of planning led to one of the worst finales of all time.  They had to go with the super lazy "God did it" ending because there was nothing interesting that could be assembled out of the pieces they had haphazardly thrown together.
 
2013-04-20 12:21:20 PM  

I. M. Foreman: Would also include Red Dwarf on this list.  Started going off the rails when they lost the ship and the show was entirely set on the Starbug, and then completely derailed when Rimmer left and we got (fake) Kochanski as a replacement.  I stopped watching about 4 episodes into the season where they find the Dwarf with all crew (including Rimmer) reconstructed via nanobots.


Cat going around spraying things. "mine. that's mine. mine. mine."

The skutters begging to not be left alone with Rimmer.
 
2013-04-20 12:21:39 PM  
BSG sucked from conception when they made the idea that Gregor Mendel was an idiot the foundation of it all. Most well-acted, best-written completely stupid bullshiat to have ever soiled the airwaves.
 
2013-04-20 12:23:50 PM  
This smells like  The English Major's work. Voyager and Enterprise were both excellent* shows.

*eventually sometimes
 
2013-04-20 12:24:07 PM  

swahnhennessy: As others have noted, BSG started to go bad before the end of season 2. It took some time building up to the boring mess it became, which makes me wonder if some people ever noticed. I just don't get how people defend that show's latter half unless they just let themselves be led into crap and couldn't tell the difference.

One thing BSG did was make me wary of TV series. I've never been one to watch much of them, but after that experience I vowed never to start another that wasn't completely wrapped up. I'm not going to get invested in another series only to have it turn stupid, leaving me with a sense of duty to finish it and see where it ends up. As good as that first season of BSG was, it wasn't worth sitting through most of the rest of it.


dont get me started on the number of good SF series which were canceled once they got going. (looking at you fox)
 
2013-04-20 12:30:03 PM  

Fish in a Barrel: NeoCortex42: The difference between the two was that BSG was trying to be a highly-serialized show, but made no effort at all to plan ahead.  Like the article said, the writers killed and resurrected Starbuck simply because the thought it would be cool.  They had no idea at the time how they were going to explain it.  The Opera House is another example of them coming up with a cool scene with no expected payoff for it.

And that lack of planning led to one of the worst finales of all time.  They had to go with the super lazy "God did it" ending because there was nothing interesting coherent that could be assembled out of the pieces they had haphazardly thrown together.


By that time there wasn't anything they could do but go "God did it!" at that point. Granted they had somewhat been leading up to "God did it." by having Head Six try to say she was actually an angel of sorts, and resurrecting Starbuck with the miracle Viper containing special data. After some thought on the subject I always thought it would have been a better idea for the writers to have the final five leave clues to the new Earth the same way they did with the old Earth. Have it be a planet they went in search of and discovered before heading to the 12 colonies. Have it be a planet they originally wanted the Cylons to move to in peace so they could advance the Cylon race. Have Head Six and Head Baltar really be delusions of a slowly fracturing mind.
 
2013-04-20 12:32:53 PM  

angrymacface: This smells like  The English Major's work. Voyager and Enterprise were both excellent* shows.

*eventually sometimes




Enterprise sucked when they decided to incorporate 9/11 into the story line and re-write Federation history.
 
2013-04-20 12:39:30 PM  

PacificaFitz: Tom Paris? Harry Kim? Captain Janeway? Tuvak? Chikote? Belana? How can you say they didn't have good charecters? Janeway was brilliant. Some of the best ST stories came out of this show! The Borg might have started with TNG but it was perfected with Voyager.

The problem people have with Voyager is that it wasn't on the bridge of the Enterprise. It was a different story all together.


www.gunnuts.net
 
2013-04-20 12:46:59 PM  

LDM90: Gunther: PacificaFitz: Tom Paris?  Harry Kim?  Captain Janeway?  Tuvak?  Chikote?  Belana?  How can you say they didn't have good charecters?

Very, very easily.

Their characters changed episode-to-episode depending on what the plot required of them. One episode Janeway would rather blow up her own ship and let a planet's worth of innocents die than violate the Prime Directive, the next week she'd be doing it for kicks.

That said, at least Kate Mulgrew was a decent actress. The semi-animated mannequin they got to play Chakotay was usually out-acted by the set dressing.

The woman had the voice of a muppet. I couldn't listen to her without laughing.


Her voice was nails on a chalkboard. It reminded me of the voice Catherine Anne O'Hara did on SCTV when she was pretending to be an old woman... or an older Fran Drescher.

Enterprise essentially killed Star Trek on television... but Voyager was awful as well.
 
2013-04-20 12:51:56 PM  

HempHead: angrymacface: This smells like  The English Major's work. Voyager and Enterprise were both excellent* shows.

*eventually sometimes

Enterprise sucked when they decided to incorporate 9/11 into the story line and re-write Federation history.


I always hoped that Enterprise would do something truly radical, and actually turn into the evil Mirror Mirror universe. It would have made the countless "Will the Federation survive this latest threat?" episodes much more exciting when suddenly, no, it doesn't survive! All hell breaks loose, and we are left with something never before expected in a Trek show.
 
2013-04-20 01:00:19 PM  

I. M. Foreman: Would also include Red Dwarf on this list.  Started going off the rails when they lost the ship and the show was entirely set on the Starbug, and then completely derailed when Rimmer left and we got (fake) Kochanski as a replacement.  I stopped watching about 4 episodes into the season where they find the Dwarf with all crew (including Rimmer) reconstructed via nanobots.


Kochanski was painful. The actress they got for her had no comic abilities whatsoever. The Rimmer/Lister dynamic was what drove the show. They should probably have just ended it after Season 5.
 
2013-04-20 01:09:20 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Oh, i09, John Rhys-Davies didn't quit Sliders... he was fired by a Fox executive he once managed pissed off.

Also, they  forgot to mention why the show went off the rails and became Kromagg of the week... Fox brought in a hack producer to do their bidding, and Hack producer stayed with the show from seasons 3-5 making sure to kill all good ideas and replace them with movie of the week worlds and such.

/and replacing the Professor with Hootie McBoob, and choosing Hootie over Wade.


and retconning Quinn's backstory to being from another Earth and having a brother (which was apparently originally supposed to be an elaborate Kromagg deception, but got nixed by said Hack producer) and then merging Quinn with a fraternal double and making previously mentioned brother (that was originally supposed to be some sort of Kromagg clone of Quinn with some alterations, but as I mentioned before that idea got nixed by the Hack producer) unstuck in space-time, and seriously being able to change the universe you happen to be in during the second episode of Season 5?  That's just bullshiat.

Seasons 1 and 2 are good.  "Double Cross" and "The Guardian" in Season 3 are good as well as"Season's Greedings" (with the exception of Rembrandt getting brainwashed to buy stuff through sublminal advertising) as we get some character development of Wade.  There were a few good or good in concept episodes of Season 4.  I think Just Say Yes would have worked better with Quinn and Wade getting drugged up and the Professor and Rembrandt trying to save them, and the Professor should have been the anti-drug hippie and Pavel the cab driver.

/ Forcing my way through Season 5 on Amazon Instant Video so I can be disappointed in the "ending."
 
2013-04-20 01:11:32 PM  

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: I always hoped that Enterprise would do something truly radical, and actually turn into the evil Mirror Mirror universe. It would have made the countless "Will the Federation survive this latest threat?" episodes much more exciting when suddenly, no, it doesn't survive! All hell breaks loose, and we are left with something never before expected in a Trek show.


They were too worried about canon and rabid fans.
Breaking everything would have created possibilities, rather than locking in obvious conclusions.
Kind of like star wars 1-3. We already KNEW everything that would happen. We just didnt know that it was all JARJAR's fault.
 
2013-04-20 01:13:54 PM  
Voyager blew. Straight up. Because it has NO consequences. The characters never really struggled with being years from home. The Ship was always repaired, the rest button always pushed. The only time it got anywhere near interesting was the "Year in Hell", which is what the whole series should been. When you have a limitless galaxy, every possibility imaginable, and your characters potentially in dramatic circumstances due to their situation, and you have a NUMBER of episodes in the Holodeck, you're clearly bankrupt in the imagination column.
 
2013-04-20 01:17:33 PM  

PacificaFitz: I am so tired of the disrespect Voyager gets, it was a damn good show.....I'll read the article now


THIS. I'm convinced that people that hated Voyager, actually didn't watch it. And if they thought it sucked, why DID they watch it.

WIth that said, know this: episode for episode, Voyager was much, much better than TNG. Take away the episodes with Q and the Borg and TNG is barely watchable today.
 
2013-04-20 01:19:47 PM  

NeoCortex42: Techhell: FTA: 6) Lost
This show was always about the relationships, more than about the plot mechanics or big mysteries. My theory is always that when people say "I didn't get enough answers from Lost," they really mean, "I didn't get enough resolution with the characters, where all of this wound up meaning something to them."

Yeah, this is where I went from "I can see that." to "This is utter bullshiate." When I say "I didn't get enough answers from Lost." I mean "I DIDN'T GET ENOUGH ANSWERS FROM LOST." I didn't tune in to see who Kate was farking this week, or whether Sawyer and Juliette were going to make it as a couple, or if Hurley was going to find love. I tuned into find out more about the Dharma project. I wanted to know why there was time travel. I wanted more information about the Others. I wanted more Richard. Why was Walt important? Etc. The relationships were nice, but I didn't care about them. Heck, I didn't even like half the characters. If there hadn't been the mysteries of the show I would have dropped it halfway through the first season.

So the idea that "I didn't get enough resolution with the characters" is insulting.

Almost all of the mysteries on the show were explained.  However, some of them were explained outside the show (mini-sodes, ARG, the epilogue on the DVD sets, etc).  Also, some of the answers simply sucked.  How did the island time travel?  By mixing the light and water.  Yes, that's a farking terrible answer, but it is an answer.


These should have been answered ON THE SHOW. When you introduce major plot points which literally drive the show for seasons at a time - Walt, Dharma, Time Travel, the Others - the main explanation needs to be in the same medium as the introduction. Do I want to know why there are polar bears on the island? Mini-sodes, ARG, DVD extras, a Wiki, etc., are fine. Do I want to know why the Others were so interested in Walt? That was a main thrust of the end of Season 1 and much of Season 2, so it should have been answered on the show itself. Do I want to know why all those reports were simply put into the tube and sent off to pile up in an abandoned part of the Island? Off-show sources are fine. Why was Dharma on the island, how were they able to come and go, why are there still food drops from Dharma years after the Purge? These needed to be answered on the show itself. Why was it so important that Aaron was raised by Claire and no one else? Show; it was probably the only mystery that involved Claire.

There's so much more I could go on about, but I'll just sum up with restating how insulting it is when people claim that the only thing that people cared about was the relationships, like this author did. It wasn't the character relationships that hard core fans spent years of their lives (I think almost literally in some cases; there were some seriously messed up hard core fans of Lost when it was on.) analyzing. It was the mysteries that were introduced, and the mysteries that WEREN'T introduced. "Why did Locke read that book?" "Why was that song playing?" "Why did Desmond pause like that?" "How come Jack didn't remember that incident?" were analyzed and over analyzed to the point of insanity. But it was almost never asked "Why did Kate smile at Jack like she did, with Sawyer right there next to him?"

/"It was always about the relationships." was just Darltons way of passing the buck of poor planning back onto the fans; it wasn't their fault they wrote themselves into a corner, it was the audiences fault for not realizing that the important part of the show was how much the characters needed each other, and how much everyone needed Jack!
 
2013-04-20 01:19:57 PM  

Hebalo: Voyager blew. Straight up. Because it has NO consequences. The characters never really struggled with being years from home. The Ship was always repaired, the rest button always pushed. The only time it got anywhere near interesting was the "Year in Hell", which is what the whole series should been. When you have a limitless galaxy, every possibility imaginable, and your characters potentially in dramatic circumstances due to their situation, and you have a NUMBER of episodes in the Holodeck, you're clearly bankrupt in the imagination column.


It also seemed to me that they prematurely took out the Starfleet vs. Maquis conflict too early.  Sure, both the Starfleet officers and the Maquis wanted to get back to the Alpha Quadrant, but there should have been more conflict between Starfleet principles and regulations and the way Maquis do things.  Sure there was some, but it seemed to be resolved way too soon.
 
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