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(io9)   10 once-great TV shows (and the exact moments they started to suck) Missing from the list: The opening credits from the first episode of Star Trek Voyager & Enterprise   (io9.com) divider line 180
    More: Amusing, television shows, love triangles, Laura Palmer, Mulder, BSG, Game of Thrones, galactic empire, Sylar  
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11449 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 20 Apr 2013 at 8:45 AM (52 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-20 01:47:15 AM
Enterprise was crappy for the first season (like every Star Trek series), but by the middle of the 2nd season, they were improving a lot. When they hit season 3 and they went into the overarching arch structure, they hit their stride.

Voyager's first episode was okay. It started to suck pretty quickly though and only improved enough to the point of watchability around maybe season 6.
 
2013-04-20 01:53:06 AM
Enterprise sucked until it's final season, then it suddenly got pretty good.

Supernatural had a couple iffy seasons lately, but this season they seem to be righting the ship.

The Lost writers clearly wrote themselves into a corner, but they did a decent job getting themselves out of it.
 
2013-04-20 01:55:05 AM
Star TrAk certainly did suck.
 
2013-04-20 02:06:28 AM

Bucky Katt: Star TrAk certainly did suck.


It was especially bad when they started doing product placements for Starbox Coffee and McDolan's.
 
2013-04-20 03:16:22 AM
Oh, i09, John Rhys-Davies didn't quit Sliders... he was fired by a Fox executive he once managed pissed off.

Also, they  forgot to mention why the show went off the rails and became Kromagg of the week... Fox brought in a hack producer to do their bidding, and Hack producer stayed with the show from seasons 3-5 making sure to kill all good ideas and replace them with movie of the week worlds and such.

/and replacing the Professor with Hootie McBoob, and choosing Hootie over Wade.
 
2013-04-20 07:45:38 AM
I stopped watching Heroes and Supernatural after the first season so they both started their nose dive after that.

Fringe was a weird one. I loved and trusted every decision they made until their final season. I can't find the excitement to continue watching the remaining episode.
 
2013-04-20 08:16:20 AM

RexTalionis: Voyager's first episode was okay. It started to suck pretty quickly though and only improved enough to the point of watchability around maybe season 6.


Voyager was Gilligan's Island in Space or a Remake of Lost in Space.
No matter what happened during the episode, at the end of the episode (or end of two parter, or episode after a season cliffhanger) they would still be stuck on the island, I mean decades away from ever getting home.

After the first couple episodes where they ALMOST had a miracle way to get home, which didnt work, what was the point again?
YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
 
2013-04-20 08:17:56 AM

Bontesla: Fringe was a weird one. I loved and trusted every decision they made until their final season. I can't find the excitement to continue watching the remaining episode.


Holy Crap, I am so glad that I am not the only one.
I have two episodes left YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
who care
 
2013-04-20 08:20:49 AM
Charmed, when they brought in the girl from The Big Bang Theory and her younger sister as replacement witches.

I don't know what season's what on Supernatural but I assume they mean it should have ended at the apocalypse.
 
2013-04-20 08:25:31 AM
1) BSG - started sucking mid season two, most of 3, a lot of 4. Four, 10 episode season would have made for an AMAZING series. Four, 20 episode seasons = lots of filler episodes. ooooo black markets are bad, but we will always have them. lolol

2) heroes - came late to the party. Season 1, awesome. Season 2, ok at times. Couldnt finish the rest. WTF, happened with Sylar??? LOL

3) x-files - what are they talking about? there were more seasons after the movie came out? LIES

4) fringe - lol - I watched it. I still have no idea what they were doing.

5) blake's 7 - LOL - It was great/ok for a kids show. Would rather die than watch it again.

6) Lost - never watched it. people say I should ...

7) superman? ever? just say no. but the new movie looks good ...dammit

8) sliders

9) twin peaks - david lynch is a festering abortion

10) supernatural - crap, was this actually good? do I have to watch it now? dammit
 
2013-04-20 08:35:39 AM

namatad: 10) supernatural - crap, was this actually good? do I have to watch it now? dammit


It's pretty good. It's like X-Files only a sausage fest. It can get gory though if you're turned off by that.

I'm afraid of Psych starting to suck now that Jules finally busted Shawn. Same with Dexter but this is the last season anyway.
 
2013-04-20 08:41:03 AM

Mugato: namatad: 10) supernatural - crap, was this actually good? do I have to watch it now? dammit

It's pretty good. It's like X-Files only a sausage fest. It can get gory though if you're turned off by that.

I'm afraid of Psych starting to suck now that Jules finally busted Shawn. Same with Dexter but this is the last season anyway.


There are most likely only about a season's worth of Psych episodes left, anyway. So even if it does start to suck, they've had a good solid 100 episodes.
 
2013-04-20 08:50:26 AM
I am so tired of the disrespect Voyager gets, it was a damn good show.....I'll read the article now
 
2013-04-20 08:51:35 AM

"If both Peter and Sylar had stayed dead after the end of season one, there could have been a clean slate and a chance to start over. "


I think both characters killed momentum once they became virtually indestructible/powerful in the first season. And yes Syler should have stayed dead, plus the battle between Peter and Syler was written poorly.

Plus the writers kept painting the storylines into a corner. I hated the multiple versions of a dead Ali Larter character. Just kill her off already.

 
2013-04-20 08:55:33 AM
Sliders started to collapse the minute they got rid of uber-cutie Sabrina Lloyd left.  Karie Wuhrer was a hot piece, not doubt, but Sabrina Lloyd was just adorable.
 
2013-04-20 09:03:38 AM

Mugato: Charmed, when they brought in the girl from The Big Bang Theory and her younger sister as replacement witches.

I don't know what season's what on Supernatural but I assume they mean it should have ended at the apocalypse.


The only reason Supernatural hasn't sucked complete and total ass after the Apocalypse is Castiel. I think I have a mancrush on the guy. This most recent season hasn't been too bad though.
 
2013-04-20 09:03:57 AM
TFA: The show stumbled somewhat in its third season, with the boxing episode and a boring love triangle.

The boxing episode is widely regarded as one of the best episodes of the series, and probably TV in general.
 
2013-04-20 09:07:42 AM
Voyager was for the non-nerd ST enthusiast of which I count myself. I enjoyed most of it, thought the writing and fx were above average. If you get stabby and butt-hurt because Janeway wasn't swashbuckling through space a la Kirk then yeah, I see why ST:Voyager would suck for you.

Janeway was like the Florida Evans of ST:Voyager.
 
2013-04-20 09:11:30 AM

namatad: 4) fringe - lol - I watched it. I still have no idea what they were doing


I understand there was some sort of story arc in there. But the whole series felt like they put ideas, LSD and mescaline in the hat, shook it, and ate whatever they pulled out.
 
2013-04-20 09:13:24 AM

boogerwolf: thought the writing and fx were above average


The FX were pretty good, I'll grant that. The writing was godawful. The characters were bland and forgettable with the exception of the EMH and Seven. Nobody ever developed, every episode reset the state back to where it was at the start of the episode- which was extra offensive since Voyager was the first ST not developed for syndication-  it was the first ST that they controlled the airing of the episodes. They could have done all sorts of great story arcs, but didn't.

Also, the premise was just awful.
 
2013-04-20 09:18:13 AM
About 8 of those were never great.
 
2013-04-20 09:19:13 AM
Hey guys? What's going on? Aaaayy!

cdn-media.hollywood.com
 
2013-04-20 09:19:14 AM

t3knomanser: boogerwolf: thought the writing and fx were above average

The FX were pretty good, I'll grant that. The writing was godawful. The characters were bland and forgettable with the exception of the EMH and Seven. Nobody ever developed, every episode reset the state back to where it was at the start of the episode- which was extra offensive since Voyager was the first ST not developed for syndication-  it was the first ST that they controlled the airing of the episodes. They could have done all sorts of great story arcs, but didn't.

Also, the premise was just awful.


Eh, I thought the premise was ok, but yeah, the writing was all over the place. The characters jumped around all over the place for a while, and like you said, most of the characters other than EMH and Seven were pretty bland. That said EMH and Seven centric episodes were done very well and were about the only characters that showed any kind of growth throughout the series.
 
2013-04-20 09:19:30 AM

PacificaFitz: I am so tired of the disrespect Voyager gets, it was a damn good show


I'm gonna assume you watched it as a little kid and that's nostalgia talking. Go re-watch it - it's actually kinda amazing how terrible it is. Every character is paper-thin, scripts are terribly written, half of the actors clearly don't care and are totally phoning it in... It's just a bad, bad show.
 
2013-04-20 09:22:59 AM
Dingleberry Dickwad:
Eh, I thought the premise was ok, but yeah, the writing was all over the place. The characters jumped around all over the place for a while, and like you said, most of the characters other than EMH and Seven were pretty bland. That said EMH and Seven centric episodes were done very well and were about the only characters that showed any kind of growth throughout the series.

The best episodes had the ECH.
 
2013-04-20 09:27:32 AM

t3knomanser: boogerwolf: thought the writing and fx were above average

The FX were pretty good, I'll grant that. The writing was godawful. The characters were bland and forgettable with the exception of the EMH and Seven. Nobody ever developed, every episode reset the state back to where it was at the start of the episode- which was extra offensive since Voyager was the first ST not developed for syndication-  it was the first ST that they controlled the airing of the episodes. They could have done all sorts of great story arcs, but didn't.

Also, the premise was just awful.


Tom Paris?  Harry Kim?  Captain Janeway?  Tuvak?  Chikote?  Belana?  How can you say they didn't have good charecters?  Janeway was brilliant.  Some of the best ST stories came out of this show!  The Borg might have started with TNG but it was perfected with Voyager.

The problem people have with Voyager is that it wasn't on the bridge of the Enterprise.  It was a different story all together.
 
2013-04-20 09:28:07 AM

wildcardjack: namatad: 4) fringe - lol - I watched it. I still have no idea what they were doing

I understand there was some sort of story arc in there. But the whole series felt like they put ideas, LSD and mescaline in the hat, shook it, and ate whatever they pulled out.


I tried to watch Fringe when it first came on, and caught it here and there, and had much the same reaction.  I went back, though, and bought the first three seasons on DVD (you can get them very cheaply), and it is certainly a show where you have to watch every episode and pay attention to almost every nuance.  It's since become one of my fav sci-fi shows, with only a smattering of weak stories here and there (Anna Torv as Leonard Nimoy was probably the lowest moment of the show).  It did have excellent episodes and excellent acting--how John Noble didn't win awards, I'll never know.

I know a lot of people diss BSG, but it remains one of the greatest sci-fi shows ever.  Yes, there were weak episodes, but compare it, to say, Star Trek: TNG, where even the reviewers say stuff like, well, there were four of five really good episodes in this twenty-two episode season, so IT IS THE GREATEST SCIFI WE'VE EVER SEEN.  Ridiculous.  Even the worst episodes of BSG are better than most of the best episodes of TNG.

\all this Fringe talk and no Anna Torv pics?  Shame, shame
 
2013-04-20 09:29:20 AM

WippitGuud: Dingleberry Dickwad:
Eh, I thought the premise was ok, but yeah, the writing was all over the place. The characters jumped around all over the place for a while, and like you said, most of the characters other than EMH and Seven were pretty bland. That said EMH and Seven centric episodes were done very well and were about the only characters that showed any kind of growth throughout the series.

The best episodes had the ECH.


And then there was that one episode where the Doctor was inside of Seven, and you have to wonder just what he put inside of Seven while he was inside of Seven.

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-20 09:29:42 AM

Gunther: PacificaFitz: I am so tired of the disrespect Voyager gets, it was a damn good show

I'm gonna assume you watched it as a little kid and that's nostalgia talking. Go re-watch it - it's actually kinda amazing how terrible it is. Every character is paper-thin, scripts are terribly written, half of the actors clearly don't care and are totally phoning it in... It's just a bad, bad show.


I actually watched it recently on Netflix, there were some great episodes of that show.  From Q to the Borg, it was a fun show
 
2013-04-20 09:31:57 AM
A pretty sound list, I am only missing Eureka; they did the same stupid thing as Fringe, I couldn't get myself interested after they moved to an alternate future.

Don't agree with Supernatural though; it's still fun, although probably it would be a good idea to stop now.

And I am tired of Doctor Who as well; time to let him rest again for a decade or so.
 
2013-04-20 09:32:30 AM

Gunther: PacificaFitz: I am so tired of the disrespect Voyager gets, it was a damn good show

I'm gonna assume you watched it as a little kid and that's nostalgia talking. Go re-watch it - it's actually kinda amazing how terrible it is. Every character is paper-thin, scripts are terribly written, half of the actors clearly don't care and are totally phoning it in... It's just a bad, bad show.


That's how it was with me.  I watched Voyager when it was first one.  I was in my teens during its run.  At the time, I thought it was an alright show.  It wasn't as good as TNG, but it was worth watching.  A couple years ago I tried a rewatch and outside of a few episodes, I couldn't believe how incredibly bad it was.  The only parts of the show consistently worthwhile were The Doctor and Seven.

For Enterprise, it was the opposite.  I didn't really give it much of a chance when it was on thanks to the theme song and just the huge change in tone of the show.  What I really wanted was a post-Voyager series to show the Alpha Quadrant after the Dominion War.  However, since I've started watching the series to give it another shot, it's a lot better than I remembered.  I'm only in the first season, and while it's not great, it's probably better than the average first seasons of a Star Trek show.
 
2013-04-20 09:33:52 AM

namatad: 3) x-files - what are they talking about? there were more seasons after the movie came out? LIES


pretty much this. The show did kind of become worthless after Duchovny left, but it was on its way out for at least 2 or 3 seasons prior.


Even though it was obvious that Laura Palmer's death was never meant to be (quickly) solved, I don't think Twin Peaks overstayed its welcome. I do think the following 3 or 4 episodes after Laura's killer was revealed were kind of crap, but it seems like it refound its footing for the last few episodes.

not mentioned in the article, but I really don't think the writers of Dexter have really been able to figure out what to do with the show once Rita was killed. I mean, I get where the plot's going (i.e. Dexter finding that he really does desire love and for that person to love him for who he is), but the plot doesn't quite work with a Villain of the Season format.
 
2013-04-20 09:35:45 AM

PacificaFitz: Tom Paris?  Harry Kim?  Captain Janeway?  Tuvak?  Chikote?  Belana?


Paris: Rent-a-center Kirk
Kim: Human wallpaper
Janeway: No consistent character, she just behaved however the plot called for- from one episode to the next she'd swing from being a conciliatory pushover to a guns-blazing renegade.
Tuvok: The worlds' least interesting Vulcan
Chakotay: The rare times when his character was ever explored, we learned he was a stereotype
Belana: Apparently being half-Klingon simply makes you biatchy.
 
2013-04-20 09:38:40 AM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: I know a lot of people diss BSG, but it remains one of the greatest sci-fi shows ever.  Yes, there were weak episodes, but compare it, to say, Star Trek: TNG, where even the reviewers say stuff like, well, there were four of five really good episodes in this twenty-two episode season, so IT IS THE GREATEST SCIFI WE'VE EVER SEEN.  Ridiculous.  Even the worst episodes of BSG are better than most of the best episodes of TNG.


The difference between the two was that BSG was trying to be a highly-serialized show, but made no effort at all to plan ahead.  Like the article said, the writers killed and resurrected Starbuck simply because the thought it would be cool.  They had no idea at the time how they were going to explain it.  The Opera House is another example of them coming up with a cool scene with no expected payoff for it.
 
2013-04-20 09:40:54 AM

t3knomanser: PacificaFitz: Tom Paris?  Harry Kim?  Captain Janeway?  Tuvak?  Chikote?  Belana?

Paris: Rent-a-center Kirk
Kim: Human wallpaper
Janeway: No consistent character, she just behaved however the plot called for- from one episode to the next she'd swing from being a conciliatory pushover to a guns-blazing renegade.
Tuvok: The worlds' least interesting Vulcan
Chakotay: The rare times when his character was ever explored, we learned he was a stereotype
Belana: Apparently being half-Klingon simply makes you biatchy.


And don't forget the always-engaging Paris-Kes-Neelix love triangle.  Any episode that featured that as a B-plot was painful to sit through.
 
2013-04-20 09:40:59 AM

NeoCortex42: The Opera House is another example of them coming up with a cool scene with no expected payoff for it.


That's unfortunately too damn common in serial programming. The interesting thing about "Arrow" (which hasn't actually finished its first season, so they have plenty of chance to fark this up), is that they do a good job building up an event and then paying it off. Even with many stand-alone plot threads, it's obviously well planned.
 
2013-04-20 09:41:53 AM

NeoCortex42: And don't forget the always-engaging Paris-Kes-Neelix love triangle.


Well, I  had until you brought it up, so thanks for that.

**shudder**
 
2013-04-20 09:42:27 AM
Following a decent if uneven and abbreviated first season that only survived cancellation due to a massive outcry from fans, season two of "Firefly" rapidly became the stuff of sci-fi legend. Thanks to excellent writing, a creative story arc and a unique method of incorporating suggestions from die-hard "Browncoat" fans, it appeared that "Firefly" was destined for unlimited greatness.

Unfortunately, the incorporation in season three of "PatRebs," a far-right Alliance faction, led to boycotts due to the striking resemblances between PatRebs and today's Tea Party movement. Although the death of series creator Joss Whedon remains unsolved, suspicions about involvement by certain Tea Party members nevertheless remain.

Inevitably, season three was probably cursed from its outset. Although the first four episodes written by Whedon's brother Jed received wide acclaim, Fox abruptly fired him only to be replaced by Michael "I love high explosives" Bay...
 
2013-04-20 09:44:19 AM

PacificaFitz: t3knomanser: boogerwolf: thought the writing and fx were above average

The FX were pretty good, I'll grant that. The writing was godawful. The characters were bland and forgettable with the exception of the EMH and Seven. Nobody ever developed, every episode reset the state back to where it was at the start of the episode- which was extra offensive since Voyager was the first ST not developed for syndication-  it was the first ST that they controlled the airing of the episodes. They could have done all sorts of great story arcs, but didn't.

Also, the premise was just awful.

Tom Paris?  Harry Kim?  Captain Janeway?  Tuvak?  Chikote?  Belana?  How can you say they didn't have good charecters?  Janeway was brilliant.  Some of the best ST stories came out of this show!  The Borg might have started with TNG but it was perfected with Voyager.

The problem people have with Voyager is that it wasn't on the bridge of the Enterprise.  It was a different story all together.


Several problems with that post. How can you say Harry Kim had a good character? Dude was Voyager's O'Brien, as in he was the punching bag that the bad shiat happened to but none of the character development. And most of what he did the entire series was whine and when Seven came on board he just pined for her all the time. Chakotay as a good character? He had moments, but you could tell Beltran was phoning in his performance half the time, and the silly magic space Native American episodes were a bit of a joke. Torres couldn't decide if she was angry all the time or not or whether she hated being half Klingon or not. Janeway wasn't that bad IMO. The actress that played her did the best she could given the material she was given. Tuvok was written as a pretty one dimensional character. The worst offense though was the Borg. They went from the galaxy's biggest badasses where a couple cubes could take out half the damn fleet to where a single ship that's been through hell and back with limited resources was able to take them out regularly.  Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy Voyager to a degree, but the quality of writing for that show was the least consistent of any Trek show I can think of.
 
2013-04-20 09:48:03 AM
Lost would have been an awesome 10 episode mini series.   With the way that they stretched that 10 episode writing into as many seasons as they did, it ended up like most beer made in the us, watered down without a lot of taste.
 
2013-04-20 09:50:13 AM

t3knomanser: NeoCortex42: And don't forget the always-engaging Paris-Kes-Neelix love triangle.

Well, I  had until you brought it up, so thanks for that.

**shudder**


One word...Tuvix.
 
2013-04-20 09:51:17 AM

wildcardjack: namatad: 4) fringe - lol - I watched it. I still have no idea what they were doing

I understand there was some sort of story arc in there. But the whole series felt like they put ideas, LSD and mescaline in the hat, shook it, and ate whatever they pulled out.


Maybe that's why I've never had a problem understanding it.
 
2013-04-20 09:51:32 AM

docmattic: Following a decent if uneven and abbreviated first season that only survived cancellation due to a massive outcry from fans, season two of "Firefly" rapidly became the stuff of sci-fi legend. Thanks to excellent writing, a creative story arc and a unique method of incorporating suggestions from die-hard "Browncoat" fans, it appeared that "Firefly" was destined for unlimited greatness.

Unfortunately, the incorporation in season three of "PatRebs," a far-right Alliance faction, led to boycotts due to the striking resemblances between PatRebs and today's Tea Party movement. Although the death of series creator Joss Whedon remains unsolved, suspicions about involvement by certain Tea Party members nevertheless remain.

Inevitably, season three was probably cursed from its outset. Although the first four episodes written by Whedon's brother Jed received wide acclaim, Fox abruptly fired him only to be replaced by Michael "I love high explosives" Bay...


I think I love you.
 
2013-04-20 09:53:04 AM

NeoCortex42: And don't forget the always-engaging Paris-Kes-Neelix love triangle.


Wait, Paris had a thing for Neelix? I never caught that.

And yes, they totally cocked up the Borg, Actually the Borg had been going downhill since The Best of Both Worlds. And that includes the movie.
 
2013-04-20 09:53:32 AM

NeoCortex42: t3knomanser: PacificaFitz: Tom Paris?  Harry Kim?  Captain Janeway?  Tuvak?  Chikote?  Belana?

Paris: Rent-a-center Kirk
Kim: Human wallpaper
Janeway: No consistent character, she just behaved however the plot called for- from one episode to the next she'd swing from being a conciliatory pushover to a guns-blazing renegade.
Tuvok: The worlds' least interesting Vulcan
Chakotay: The rare times when his character was ever explored, we learned he was a stereotype
Belana: Apparently being half-Klingon simply makes you biatchy.

And don't forget the always-engaging Paris-Kes-Neelix love triangle.  Any episode that featured that as a B-plot was painful to sit through.


I purposely avoided the Kes/Neelix thing.  Worst characters in Star Trek history.  I disagree with the character assessments above, Janeway was a crafty Captain forced to think on her feet at all times, everyone else had steady build up throughout the series.  I'm obviously on my own in this
 
2013-04-20 09:54:55 AM
media.sacbee.com
Shazzbat!
 
2013-04-20 09:56:52 AM

Dingleberry Dickwad: t3knomanser: NeoCortex42: And don't forget the always-engaging Paris-Kes-Neelix love triangle.

Well, I  had until you brought it up, so thanks for that.

**shudder**

One word...Tuvix.


I had forgotten about that one.  I'm slowly losing this argument....
 
2013-04-20 09:59:03 AM
voteordieblog.com
Sgt York?
 
2013-04-20 09:59:19 AM
Wow, they consider 'Lois and Clark' a great tv series? I thought I was the only person on planet Earth that thought that!

Pity they removed it from netflix 18 months ago or so, I loved rewatching the episodes. It's kinda cheesier than I remember, but it was still a great show.
 
2013-04-20 09:59:32 AM
How about Defiance after the first 15 minute preview...
 
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