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(ABC Local)   Concealed carry fails in Illinois House. This is good news for gun owners because if they don't pass one in the next few weeks you can carry any gun you want any time you want in the Land of Lincoln   (abclocal.go.com) divider line 331
    More: Cool, Illinois House, Illinois, Chicago Democrat, concealed weapons, gun owners, parliamentary procedures, Brooke Anderson  
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7885 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Apr 2013 at 10:56 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-20 11:26:45 AM
1) Criminals already concealed carry.

2) The more guns in the hands of the law abiding means more guns in the hands of criminals.
 
2013-04-20 11:27:46 AM

Lsherm: Fark It: Silly Jesus: I love that they are continuing to ignore the real problem out of political correctness.  The problem, Illinois, is a certain culture that exists in your largest city, not the average lawful gun owner.

"Hurrr, the real problem is the blacks!"

Chicago's ghetto culture is about far more than just skin tone.....

That's why he said:

Silly Jesus: is a certain culture that exists in your largest city


You brought up color, you farking racist.


I said "blued guns", NOT "gums"!!!!
 
2013-04-20 11:28:01 AM

Dimensio: soia: I say, fark conceal carry and issue only an unconcealed carry.  You man/woman enough to carry a gun be man/woman enough to show it

Police officers in Louisville, Kentucky prefer that citizens who carry firearms keep those firearms concealed. For what reason do you hate police officers?


I have corrected my error.
 
2013-04-20 11:28:10 AM

Farkage: Carousel Beast: aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.

It certainly took guys with guns to stop them once they were found, didn't it?

And judging by the pictures, the ones they had were "Ar-15 fully automatic assault murder rifle weapons with large high capacity bullet magazine ammunition clip feeder devices" too!  I'm surprised anyone in the entire city survived that...


When the cops have them they're "patrol carbines" not "assault weapons."  Learn your terminology, citizen....
 
2013-04-20 11:28:25 AM

Fark It: I'm sorry, I can't hear you over that dog-whistle.


Oh that's right.  I forgot that all mentions of Chicago and culture were inherently racist.  It's so hard to keep up with the current list these days.

Seriously, though, Chicago has a gang/criminal violence problem.  It is not solely a racial issue, but race does play a part in it.  I've been on Fark a few years and haven't had much interaction with you or Silly Jesus.  If he's a troll then fine, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  But it's going to be very difficult to have any type of reasonable discussion, here or elsewhere, if people are going to jump to the worst conclusions about each other.
 
2013-04-20 11:28:57 AM

JungleBoogie: 1) Criminals already concealed carry.

2) The more guns in the hands of the law abiding means more guns in the hands of criminals.


I am certain that you will be able to justify your second statement through reference to statistical data derived from states that have enacted "shall-issue" based concealed weapons permit systems. Please do so.
 
2013-04-20 11:29:19 AM
Concealment is the problem. Open carry is the solution.
 
2013-04-20 11:30:05 AM

way south: BigBooper: Fark It: Silly Jesus: I love that they are continuing to ignore the real problem out of political correctness.  The problem, Illinois, is a certain culture that exists in your largest city, not the average lawful gun owner.

"Hurrr, the real problem is the blacks!"

Chicago's ghetto culture is about far more than just skin tone.....

And Chicago's problem with violence is about far more than just guns....

But guns at least allow the residents to fend for themselves where government is failing.
If they go concealed carry its going to be interesting to see how crime rates there repond.

So far as concealed carry bans, if I recall Hawaii and the US territories still have bans on carry and heavily restricted ownership (where its even allowed).
Getting all stats in on concealed carry would be a big win for us on the fringes.


It will be just like anywhere else.  The crimes rates will drop.  Or rise.  Or stay the same.
 
2013-04-20 11:30:17 AM

Lionel Mandrake: CaptainCliche: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: I love that they are continuing to ignore the real problem out of political correctness.  The problem, Illinois, is a certain culture that exists in your largest city, not the average lawful gun owner.

And what's the solution?

If only there was some place they could be sent, like a farm or something. They could get room and board in exchange for agricultural work. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

I didn't know you were a teabagger


Must trying to offer "free market solutions". Of course the owners farmers should get some kind of tax break for all the charity they're giving... Maybe only pay 60% of the taxes they are now... Call it a compromise.
 
2013-04-20 11:30:25 AM

Phinn: Concealment is the problem. Open carry is the solution.


Please explain why concealment is a "problem".
 
2013-04-20 11:32:02 AM

Fark It: Farkage: Carousel Beast: aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.

It certainly took guys with guns to stop them once they were found, didn't it?

And judging by the pictures, the ones they had were "Ar-15 fully automatic assault murder rifle weapons with large high capacity bullet magazine ammunition clip feeder devices" too!  I'm surprised anyone in the entire city survived that...

When the cops have them they're "patrol carbines" not "assault weapons."  Learn your terminology, citizen....


I saw a couple that had the shoulder thingie that goes up.
 
2013-04-20 11:32:33 AM

Fark It: I think all of Chicago's and Cook County's gun laws should be invalidated, but I'm not big on "constitutional carry."  Carrying a gun in public is something that should be regulated reasonably.


Why.  How many 50 year olds with a gun in a holster on their hip do you see holding up liquor stores?
 
2013-04-20 11:32:36 AM

LarryDan43: WI had open carry by default up until last year when they passed a concealed carry.


We've had it in Ohio for at least as long as I've been practicing law.  I have a friend who open carries regularly.  He's a big bald imposing guy and law enforcement does get called occassionally.  They know him and just drive by and wave.
 
2013-04-20 11:33:04 AM

Fark It: Farkage: Carousel Beast: aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.

It certainly took guys with guns to stop them once they were found, didn't it?

And judging by the pictures, the ones they had were "Ar-15 fully automatic assault murder rifle weapons with large high capacity bullet magazine ammunition clip feeder devices" too!  I'm surprised anyone in the entire city survived that...

When the cops have them they're "patrol carbines" not "assault weapons."  Learn your terminology, citizen....


I stand corrected :)
 
2013-04-20 11:33:41 AM

Phinn: Concealment is the problem. Open carry is the solution.


EXACTLY! Once those ghetto thugs see me walkin down the street with my pressure cooker, they will know what they are in for!!!
 
2013-04-20 11:35:31 AM
Plaxico Burress's agent is calling the Bears front office as we speak.
 
2013-04-20 11:35:42 AM

aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.


So we just need to outlaw pressure cookers and we'll all be safe.
 
2013-04-20 11:35:45 AM
No sympathy for Illinois.  They were given a fairly reasonable period of time to come up with a law, and every chance to make it as restrictive as they wanted it to be.  The fact that they're refusing to come to terms with it is rather tough farking shiat for them.

Seems we've found the Illinois Democrat equivalent of the national Republican budget issue.  Lots of words, lots of demands, completely unable to put together a REAL bill that solves the issue to their own satisfaction.

Yes, both sides are bad.  So fark the party and vote for the candidate to actually stands for stuff you stand for, regardless of that silly letter after their name.
 
2013-04-20 11:35:47 AM

Capo Del Bandito: T-Servo: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 425x460]

I expect the discussion in this thread to be reasoned and measured.

And based on your pic, slightly erotic?

...is there a field for 'gun erotica'?


Rule 34 of the Internet is always in effect...
 
2013-04-20 11:36:29 AM

Dimensio: Phinn: Concealment is the problem. Open carry is the solution.

Please explain why concealment is a "problem".


Concealment is the preferred mode of carrying for people who like to commit crimes.

The legitimate (i.e., defensive) use of weapons does not require concealment. Also, the open carring of weapons helps prevent aggressive violence by deterring it.
 
2013-04-20 11:37:10 AM

Capo Del Bandito: T-Servo: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 425x460]

I expect the discussion in this thread to be reasoned and measured.

And based on your pic, slightly erotic?

...is there a field for 'gun erotica'?


Rule 34.
 
2013-04-20 11:37:22 AM
THIS JUST IN....


CRIMINALS CARRY ANYTHING THEY WANT, ANYWHERE THEY WANT.

btw...if Texas ever goes "open carry"
I shall carry my Smith and Wesson 21-4 .44 Special wheel gun on my hip. (Thunder Ranch Model!)
Six .44 slugs beats 15x 9mm any day imho.
 
2013-04-20 11:38:00 AM

Farkage: I guess this is where the anti-gun Farkers come out and start screaming that if they pass concealed carry that there "Will be rivers of blood running in the streets", because, you know, that hasn't happened anywhere else when the same laws were passed??


No, the rivers of blood are already there.
 
2013-04-20 11:39:13 AM

Phinn: Dimensio: Phinn: Concealment is the problem. Open carry is the solution.

Please explain why concealment is a "problem".

Concealment is the preferred mode of carrying for people who like to commit crimes.

The legitimate (i.e., defensive) use of weapons does not require concealment. Also, the open carring of weapons helps prevent aggressive violence by deterring it.


As many citizens legally carry concealed firearms and do not commit crimes with them, your claim is demonstrably false. As you are relying upon a false premise, your conclusion is unreliable.
 
2013-04-20 11:39:22 AM

Your titties - Do they need sucking: Fark It: I think all of Chicago's and Cook County's gun laws should be invalidated, but I'm not big on "constitutional carry."  Carrying a gun in public is something that should be regulated reasonably.

Why.  How many 50 year olds with a gun in a holster on their hip do you see holding up liquor stores?


"911 what's your emergency?"

"There's a man with a gun!"

I would give open-carry time.  It's not something people would be used to right away, and it would lead to needless wastes of LE resources and abuses at the hands of overzealous cops.  Could you imagine how poorly a black guy would get treated if he was caught legally open-carrying?  The taxpayers don't deserve any more brutality lawsuits....
 
2013-04-20 11:39:23 AM

soia: I say, fark conceal carry and issue only an unconcealed carry.  You man/woman enough to carry a gun be man/woman enough to show it


That is AWESOME.  Now, when you walk in to a 7-11 and someone comes in to rob it, he can walk around the store and see who has a gun and knows whom to shoot first, after he pulls out his concealed gun.
 
2013-04-20 11:39:41 AM

mizchief: aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.

So we just need to outlaw pressure cookers and we'll all be safe.


I don't want the gawddarn gubmint coming to my house asking to see the papers on my pressure cooker. If you outlaw pressure cookers, only outlaws can make a nice pot roast with taters and carrots.
 
2013-04-20 11:40:19 AM

Cybernetic: Gun laws have long divided Illinois along geographical lines, not necessarily political ones. Democrats in Chicago worry about street violence, while Democrats and Republicans in other parts of the state stand by the 2nd Amendment.

Really, Chicago? Really? 532 murders in 2012, and you worry that allowing law-abiding citizens the means to protect themselves is going to make it worse?

Wow.


Chicago is kind of a big city. On a per captia basis, a law-abiding citizen in Chicago has a smaller chance of being murdered than in cities in gun-grabbing liberal paradises of Tennessee and Lousiana.


Link
 
2013-04-20 11:40:40 AM

Fark It: Anderson's Pooper: My take on this is that concealed carry and open carry would both be legal if nothing is passed.

That's exactly what would happen.  I'm pro-gun and I don't want that to happen, I think that guns in public can and should be regulated.


There has been discussion about this on CPD blogs.  They aren't sure what to do at an administrative level.
 
2013-04-20 11:41:34 AM

Giant Clown Shoe: Fark It: Anderson's Pooper: My take on this is that concealed carry and open carry would both be legal if nothing is passed.

That's exactly what would happen.  I'm pro-gun and I don't want that to happen, I think that guns in public can and should be regulated.

There has been discussion about this on CPD blogs.  They aren't sure what to do at an administrative level.


I can understand. Currently, they can be assured that the only individuals in public who are armed, without exception, are criminals.
 
2013-04-20 11:41:37 AM

T-Servo: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 425x460]

I expect the discussion in this thread to be reasoned and measured.


I have a weird boner right now.
 
2013-04-20 11:41:50 AM

Dimensio: Phinn: Dimensio: Phinn: Concealment is the problem. Open carry is the solution.

Please explain why concealment is a "problem".

Concealment is the preferred mode of carrying for people who like to commit crimes.

The legitimate (i.e., defensive) use of weapons does not require concealment. Also, the open carring of weapons helps prevent aggressive violence by deterring it.

As many citizens legally carry concealed firearms and do not commit crimes with them, your claim is demonstrably false. As you are relying upon a false premise, your conclusion is unreliable.


Most of the people you describe carry concealed because open carry is considered a crime.

Like a typical statist, you ignore the effect of statism on people's behavior.
 
2013-04-20 11:41:54 AM

aNihilV10L8tr: mizchief: aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.

So we just need to outlaw pressure cookers and we'll all be safe.

I don't want the gawddarn gubmint coming to my house asking to see the papers on my pressure cooker. If you outlaw pressure cookers, only outlaws can make a nice pot roast with taters and carrots.


+1 for use of the word 'taters'!!
 
2013-04-20 11:42:02 AM

mizchief: aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.

So we just need to outlaw pressure cookers and we'll all be safe.


A good guy with a hydrogen bomb would have prevented it from happening.
 
2013-04-20 11:44:36 AM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: No sympathy for Illinois.  They were given a fairly reasonable period of time to come up with a law, and every chance to make it as restrictive as they wanted it to be.  The fact that they're refusing to come to terms with it is rather tough farking shiat for them.

Seems we've found the Illinois Democrat equivalent of the national Republican budget issue.  Lots of words, lots of demands, completely unable to put together a REAL bill that solves the issue to their own satisfaction.

Yes, both sides are bad.  So fark the party and vote for the candidate to actually stands for stuff you stand for, regardless of that silly letter after their name.


An Illinois democrat from downstate has been working at concealed carry for a decade.  The only people standing in the way are the morons in Chicago.  This concealed carry bill passed 64-45.  Chicago's "may-issue" counter-proposal only mustered 31 votes.  It needs 71 to override home-rule and the governor's veto.  I see this outrage at the Senate for failing to pass expanded background checks when the vote was 56-44, but then we have these gun control proponents doing exactly the same thing in Illinois (with a much larger margin and court-imposed deadline, no less).
 
2013-04-20 11:44:36 AM

Phinn: Dimensio: Phinn: Dimensio: Phinn: Concealment is the problem. Open carry is the solution.

Please explain why concealment is a "problem".

Concealment is the preferred mode of carrying for people who like to commit crimes.

The legitimate (i.e., defensive) use of weapons does not require concealment. Also, the open carring of weapons helps prevent aggressive violence by deterring it.

As many citizens legally carry concealed firearms and do not commit crimes with them, your claim is demonstrably false. As you are relying upon a false premise, your conclusion is unreliable.

Most of the people you describe carry concealed because open carry is considered a crime.


I am a resident of Kentucky. Carrying an openly displayed firearm is legal within the state, without any permit requirement. Nonetheless, most citizens who carry prefer to carry firearms concealed. Your claim is false.


Like a typical statist, you ignore the effect of statism on people's behavior.

Your assertion is based upon a false premise, and thus it is not valid.
 
2013-04-20 11:45:10 AM

craigdamage: THIS JUST IN....


CRIMINALS CARRY ANYTHING THEY WANT, ANYWHERE THEY WANT.

btw...if Texas ever goes "open carry"
I shall carry my Smith and Wesson 21-4 .44 Special wheel gun on my hip. (Thunder Ranch Model!)
Six .44 slugs beats 15x 9mm any day imho.


I thought you could shiat in the middle of the street in Texas. How can you not wear a gun?

(Also - did you have a boner when you typed that last part? It sounds like you did.)
 
2013-04-20 11:45:21 AM

craigdamage: ...if Texas ever goes "open carry"
I shall carry my Smith and Wesson 21-4 .44 Special wheel gun on my hip. (Thunder Ranch Model!)
Six .44 slugs beats 15x 9mm any day imho.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-20 11:45:35 AM

Farkage: Carousel Beast: aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.

It certainly took guys with guns to stop them once they were found, didn't it?

And judging by the pictures, the ones they had were "Ar-15 fully automatic assault murder rifle weapons with large high capacity bullet magazine ammunition clip feeder devices" too!  I'm surprised anyone in the entire city survived that...


Looks like they could indeed get all murdery
d3.yimg.com
 
2013-04-20 11:48:03 AM

aNihilV10L8tr: EXACTLY! Once those ghetto thugs see me walkin down the street with my pressure cooker, they will know what they are in for!!!


Gun bans are old news. OMFG BAN ASSAULT COOKERS !@%!@

Especially the scary looking extra-capacity ones with the tactical handles and infrared pressure gauges. I mean really, who needs an 11 quart pressure cooker - it's just common sense. The canning nuts have gone too far this time.

/90% of Americans support universal background checks on pressure cookers over 1 quart
 
2013-04-20 11:49:02 AM

Your titties - Do they need sucking: soia: I say, fark conceal carry and issue only an unconcealed carry.  You man/woman enough to carry a gun be man/woman enough to show it

That is AWESOME.  Now, when you walk in to a 7-11 and someone comes in to rob it, he can walk around the store and see who has a gun and knows whom to shoot first, after he pulls out his concealed gun.


Or he'll see that there's armed people there, realize that there's no way he'll get out of there alive, and walk back out.
 
2013-04-20 11:49:06 AM

Your titties - Do they need sucking: Farkage: Carousel Beast: aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.

It certainly took guys with guns to stop them once they were found, didn't it?

And judging by the pictures, the ones they had were "Ar-15 fully automatic assault murder rifle weapons with large high capacity bullet magazine ammunition clip feeder devices" too!  I'm surprised anyone in the entire city survived that...

Looks like they could indeed get all murdery
[d3.yimg.com image 750x500]


At least his EOTech isn't on backwards.....
 
2013-04-20 11:50:14 AM

snowshovel: Chicago is kind of a big city. On a per captia basis, a law-abiding citizen in Chicago has a smaller chance of being murdered than in cities in gun-grabbing liberal paradises of Tennessee and Lousiana.


Then it must be cold weather that cases murder.
 
2013-04-20 11:51:12 AM
They simply need to remove the emotion from the argument. It serves no purpose in matters of life and death.

Unfortunately for Chicago lawmakers, without emotion, they have no argument.
 
2013-04-20 11:51:30 AM

Fark It: Your titties - Do they need sucking: Farkage: Carousel Beast: aNihilV10L8tr: Because as we all know, is the only thing that couldve saved those people in Boston from bad guys with pressure cookers are good guys with pressure cookers.

It certainly took guys with guns to stop them once they were found, didn't it?

And judging by the pictures, the ones they had were "Ar-15 fully automatic assault murder rifle weapons with large high capacity bullet magazine ammunition clip feeder devices" too!  I'm surprised anyone in the entire city survived that...

Looks like they could indeed get all murdery
[d3.yimg.com image 750x500]

At least his EOTech isn't on backwards.....


lol, right?
 
2013-04-20 11:53:04 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: snowshovel: Chicago is kind of a big city. On a per captia basis, a law-abiding citizen in Chicago has a smaller chance of being murdered than in cities in gun-grabbing liberal paradises of Tennessee and Lousiana.

Then it must be cold weather that cases murder.


Did...did you just link to Breitbart?
 
2013-04-20 11:53:30 AM

Fark It: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: No sympathy for Illinois.  They were given a fairly reasonable period of time to come up with a law, and every chance to make it as restrictive as they wanted it to be.  The fact that they're refusing to come to terms with it is rather tough farking shiat for them.

Seems we've found the Illinois Democrat equivalent of the national Republican budget issue.  Lots of words, lots of demands, completely unable to put together a REAL bill that solves the issue to their own satisfaction.

Yes, both sides are bad.  So fark the party and vote for the candidate to actually stands for stuff you stand for, regardless of that silly letter after their name.

An Illinois democrat from downstate has been working at concealed carry for a decade.  The only people standing in the way are the morons in Chicago.  This concealed carry bill passed 64-45.  Chicago's "may-issue" counter-proposal only mustered 31 votes.  It needs 71 to override home-rule and the governor's veto.  I see this outrage at the Senate for failing to pass expanded background checks when the vote was 56-44, but then we have these gun control proponents doing exactly the same thing in Illinois (with a much larger margin and court-imposed deadline, no less).


Brandon Phelps (D-Harrisburg) keeps watering down his  HB 997 with more restrictions to try and appease the northern/Chicago Dems and it still can't get passed. That's the funny thing about gun politics in Illinois, neither side really has the numbers to advance their agenda.
 
2013-04-20 11:53:51 AM

Fark It: It was a punitive measure born of racial paranoia by the Chicago machine in response to the civil rights movement. That's why under "Race" there are three checkboxes: Black, White, and Other.


Several gun control laws were. Good luck on getting the "pro-civil" rights usuals to end that form of racism.

Fark It: Silly Jesus: I love that they are continuing to ignore the real problem out of political correctness.  The problem, Illinois, is a certain culture that exists in your largest city, not the average lawful gun owner.

"Hurrr, the real problem is the blacks!"

Chicago's ghetto culture is about far more than just skin tone.....


Yes, which is what he was saying before you interpreted what he said into race bias. Thus confirming that political correctness affects discussion.

scotty425: I think a really good civil rights lawyer could effectively argue that the fee on FOID cards is in fact a poll tax and therefore unconstitutional.


Absolutely. I have nothing against a FOID card but it should be free and shall issue with no tracking of purchases. It should be a portable background check.

Farkage: I guess this is where the anti-gun Farkers come out and start screaming that if they pass concealed carry that there "Will be rivers of blood running in the streets", because, you know, that hasn't happened anywhere else when the same laws were passed??


Bingo. It's like the gay marriage debate except the gun control advocates don't realize their fallacy and there's no exaggerating what they say.
 
2013-04-20 11:54:30 AM

Dimensio: Phinn: Dimensio: Phinn: Dimensio: Phinn: Concealment is the problem. Open carry is the solution.

Please explain why concealment is a "problem".

Concealment is the preferred mode of carrying for people who like to commit crimes.

The legitimate (i.e., defensive) use of weapons does not require concealment. Also, the open carring of weapons helps prevent aggressive violence by deterring it.

As many citizens legally carry concealed firearms and do not commit crimes with them, your claim is demonstrably false. As you are relying upon a false premise, your conclusion is unreliable.

Most of the people you describe carry concealed because open carry is considered a crime.

I am a resident of Kentucky. Carrying an openly displayed firearm is legal within the state, without any permit requirement. Nonetheless, most citizens who carry prefer to carry firearms concealed. Your claim is false.


Like a typical statist, you ignore the effect of statism on people's behavior.

Your assertion is based upon a false premise, and thus it is not valid.


You'll notice that I said that concealment is the preferred mode for criminals. I did not say that all persons who prefer concealment are criminals. Concealment may well be the preferred mode for lawful people, too. You should read more carefully, and employ logical reasoning.

If, however, one were to purport to be interested in crime reduction, when given a choice between prohibiting concealed carry or open carry, prohibiting concealment would be far more appropriate, since the open carrying of weapons does not diminish the effectiveness of guns as a defensive instrument, and in fact increases it (see, e.g., LEOs), whereas concealment increases the utility of its use in the commission of crimes.
 
2013-04-20 11:55:43 AM

macadamnut: Guns are gay.


Until you are looking at the business end of one...then they are serious business.
 
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