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(New York Daily News)   Continuing Boston discussion, high-fives, hell yeahs and whatnot here   (nydailynews.com) divider line 1583
    More: Followup, Tsarnaev, Watertown, suicide bomb, New Bedford, vests  
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6526 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Apr 2013 at 12:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-20 11:14:13 AM  
Anyone else have a news-hangover? I feel exhausted.
 
2013-04-20 11:16:21 AM  

Zazzy: By the way, does anyone know who it was that was actually raising this kid? He's 19 and his parents are back in Russia. He could be on his own now, but back when he was a minor who was actually responsible for him?

This person has some questions to answer.


I thought they said it was his older brother. Ask him whatever you want.
 
2013-04-20 11:17:05 AM  

Zazzy: Whether or not the public safety argument is applicable is irrelevant, I was wondering why they would even bother using it in this case.


The plan to do exactly this leaked to the press over a year ago. What is happening has nothing to do with the facts on the ground.
 
2013-04-20 11:18:31 AM  

Zazzy: eems like it's not even useful here. He can't answer questions right now at all so needing to find bombs isn't a reason - by the time he's coherent the time it would have mattered will be passed


So you are saying that this guy cannot talk because his injuries are so severe even though the guy whose legs were blown off did speak and identify the bomber who blew his legs off?
 
2013-04-20 11:22:27 AM  
Fark getting kinda farked made me go to Reddit. I never go to Reddit.  I don't like Reddit.

Bad Fark. Bad.
 
2013-04-20 11:23:17 AM  

mikaloyd: Zazzy: eems like it's not even useful here. He can't answer questions right now at all so needing to find bombs isn't a reason - by the time he's coherent the time it would have mattered will be passed

So you are saying that this guy cannot talk because his injuries are so severe even though the guy whose legs were blown off did speak and identify the bomber who blew his legs off?


Seriously?
 
2013-04-20 11:25:09 AM  
The due could climb in and out of a fking boat He can talk.

I think that in fact he shuld beencouraged to talk by any means practicble.
 
2013-04-20 11:29:52 AM  

mikaloyd: The due could climb in and out of a fking boat He can talk.

I think that in fact he shuld beencouraged to talk by any means practicble.


I think your keyboard may be broken.
 
2013-04-20 11:31:02 AM  

Feral_and_Preposterous: mikaloyd: Zazzy: eems like it's not even useful here. He can't answer questions right now at all so needing to find bombs isn't a reason - by the time he's coherent the time it would have mattered will be passed

So you are saying that this guy cannot talk because his injuries are so severe even though the guy whose legs were blown off did speak and identify the bomber who blew his legs off?

Seriously?


Do you think that a guy who can climb in and out of a boat is incapable of speech?

I want the cops to know where the rest of the bombing supplies are and the location of any undetonated ones that might still exist. Thats important enough to make the bastard talk whether he is comfortable or not and whether he wants to talk or not.
 
2013-04-20 11:32:51 AM  

Beerguy: mikaloyd: The due could climb in and out of a fking boat He can talk.

I think that in fact he shuld beencouraged to talk by any means practicble.

I think your keyboard may be broken.


It is and it pisses me off a little because its fairly new
 
2013-04-20 11:43:04 AM  

mikaloyd: Feral_and_Preposterous: mikaloyd: Zazzy: eems like it's not even useful here. He can't answer questions right now at all so needing to find bombs isn't a reason - by the time he's coherent the time it would have mattered will be passed

So you are saying that this guy cannot talk because his injuries are so severe even though the guy whose legs were blown off did speak and identify the bomber who blew his legs off?

Seriously?

Do you think that a guy who can climb in and out of a boat is incapable of speech?

I want the cops to know where the rest of the bombing supplies are and the location of any undetonated ones that might still exist. Thats important enough to make the bastard talk whether he is comfortable or not and whether he wants to talk or not.


You do know that after climbing into the boat, he was involved in a firefight with police, right? That sort of thing has been known to alter a person's physical condition. I'm not aware of any account in which he climbed out of the boat under his own power.
 
2013-04-20 11:45:00 AM  

GoSurfing: Suede head: So, Americans, how do you feel that an ntire city can be shut down  and its citizens effectively placed under house arrest while police looking exactly like soldiers flood the streets? It's a glimpse of what they have lined up for you when the shiat hits the fan. Do you still feel you live in the "land of the free"? Also where does it leave your gun arguments when this skinny kid wins a firefight with armed, trained police and evades capture for so long?

They showed restraint by not shooting and killing him. They had that option. For the purposes of national security they didn't kill him, and they ended up capturing him alive. It was a net gain at the end of the day. Be objective. You can learn more from the person being alive than dead. You and I both know that they would have killed him had they not wanted to take him alive. The officers that responded showed balls and completed restraint, and they should be applauded for this, as well as the citizen that had the nuts to go outside and scope out his premises.


what I like to know is the good 5 or 6 seconds of continuous firing a few minutes before all this happened. Just by listening to the sounds one can assume over 250 rounds were fired. Did the cops just fire into the air or were they just really really bad shots? If it was the latter then the cops were intending to kill.
 
2013-04-20 11:46:16 AM  

s2s2s2: Mrtraveler01: Well they are white...

Yeah, yeah. Totally.
My first thought when I look at these guys is, "Anglo(what everyone predicting 'white guys' actually meant)".

[images.bwbx.io image 630x420]
But technically, white.


Yes, but not "southern tea bagger white" which was what so many Farkers were hoping earlier in the week.
 
2013-04-20 11:53:52 AM  

kab: Epoch_Zero: Anyone have definitive proof that he did yet? If he did, he deserves to be on the ground bleeding. But if he didn't....

Unsurprisingly, it's not something that many folks seem to be asking.


Well, maybe that's because most innocent people don't tend to go on a car-jacking, gun-shooting, homemade-bomb-throwing car-chase from police...

paulseta: The Tsarnaev must be packed inside a pig - big pig!


"Share and Enjoy" is the company motto of the hugely successful Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Complaints division, which now covers the major land masses of three medium sized planets and is the only part of the Corporation to have shown a consistent profit in recent years.

The motto stands - or rather stood - in three mile high illuminated letters near the Complaints Department spaceport on Eadrax. Unfortunately its weight was such that shortly after it was erected, the ground beneath the letters caved in and they dropped for nearly half their length through the offices of many talented young complaints executives - now deceased.

The protruding upper halves of the letters now appear, in the local language, to read "Go stick your head in a pig", and are no longer illuminated, except at times of special celebration.
 
2013-04-20 12:04:35 PM  

GleefulFiend: You do know that after climbing into the boat, he was involved in a firefight with police, right? That sort of thing has been known to alter a person's physical condition. I'm not aware of any account in which he climbed out of the boat under his own power.


assets.nydailynews.com
 
2013-04-20 12:09:08 PM  

mikaloyd: GleefulFiend: You do know that after climbing into the boat, he was involved in a firefight with police, right? That sort of thing has been known to alter a person's physical condition. I'm not aware of any account in which he climbed out of the boat under his own power.

[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x500]


Fair enough.
 
2013-04-20 12:11:24 PM  

mikaloyd: Feral_and_Preposterous: mikaloyd: Zazzy: eems like it's not even useful here. He can't answer questions right now at all so needing to find bombs isn't a reason - by the time he's coherent the time it would have mattered will be passed

So you are saying that this guy cannot talk because his injuries are so severe even though the guy whose legs were blown off did speak and identify the bomber who blew his legs off?

Seriously?

Do you think that a guy who can climb in and out of a boat is incapable of speech?

I want the cops to know where the rest of the bombing supplies are and the location of any undetonated ones that might still exist. Thats important enough to make the bastard talk whether he is comfortable or not and whether he wants to talk or not.


If he climbed in and out with his mouth you MIGHT be right. Because someone's arms and legs worked 24 hours ago doesn't mean they are now.

Also: Do you REALLY think that if he's able to talk the government isn't going to be grilling the hell out of him? Just chill. I'm sure they're going to be using extreme means (means that would make baby Jesus cry) to get him to talk soon enough (as soon as they're sure it won't kill him).
 
2013-04-20 12:23:36 PM  
farkplug: WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT WALL OF BOLD RANTING LOONY TEXT

Awww bless, somebody's upset because he got caught being flat-out wrong about almost everything he said. Diddums.
 
2013-04-20 12:26:18 PM  

Feral_and_Preposterous: If he climbed in and out with his mouth you MIGHT be right. Because someone's arms and legs worked 24 hours ago doesn't mean they are now.


I realize that your story requires that he is physically incapable of chatting now. But come on.
 
2013-04-20 12:33:20 PM  
Skipperrrrrrrrr!

assets.nydailynews.com
 
2013-04-20 12:35:46 PM  

mikaloyd: The due could climb in and out of a fking boat He can talk.

I think that in fact he shuld beencouraged to talk by any means practicble.


...like being able to do so in an environment in which any forthcoming statements about undetonated bombs would be inadmissable in a court of law?
 
2013-04-20 12:42:47 PM  

impaler: Slartibartfaster: Please recite the parts of the constitution that define special rights for "citizens" as opposed to "all men"

Ill recite this one.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness...."

While I understand your point, you just quoted the "Declaration of Independence," not the constitution.


That made me chuckle.
 
2013-04-20 12:49:54 PM  
Paul Curtis was mirandized, and isn't being charged as an enemy combatant.

and he tried to kill the President.

but he's not a Muslim, so who cares?
 
2013-04-20 12:56:57 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: GoSurfing: Suede head: So, Americans, how do you feel that an ntire city can be shut down  and its citizens effectively placed under house arrest while police looking exactly like soldiers flood the streets? It's a glimpse of what they have lined up for you when the shiat hits the fan. Do you still feel you live in the "land of the free"? Also where does it leave your gun arguments when this skinny kid wins a firefight with armed, trained police and evades capture for so long?

They showed restraint by not shooting and killing him. They had that option. For the purposes of national security they didn't kill him, and they ended up capturing him alive. It was a net gain at the end of the day. Be objective. You can learn more from the person being alive than dead. You and I both know that they would have killed him had they not wanted to take him alive. The officers that responded showed balls and completed restraint, and they should be applauded for this, as well as the citizen that had the nuts to go outside and scope out his premises.

what I like to know is the good 5 or 6 seconds of continuous firing a few minutes before all this happened. Just by listening to the sounds one can assume over 250 rounds were fired. Did the cops just fire into the air or were they just really really bad shots? If it was the latter then the cops were intending to kill.


Did anyone else hear on the scanner that they were using rubber bullets?  I did.  If was after the first round of shots with the boat so there is that.  Do they bust out the non-lethal ordinance when they intend to kill?

Perhaps they should fire Nerf bullets and get the comfy chair ready.  I thought the point was to get him alive, not a latte.
 
2013-04-20 01:21:38 PM  
This is what I don't get...

The residents of Boston staying in their houses willingly when asked by the police.  I'm not aware of anyone being arrested for walking their dogs or going to the store (there most have been those people).  I'm sure the cops asked anyone they saw to please remain indoors and there are absolutely 0 reports that I am aware of where anyone said otherwise.  In this day in age of cell phones you would think that if it DID happen there would at least be a tweet.

All I ever heard were announcements from the police saying the city is in lock down, please stay inside and people did.  Why is that a problem?  There was no abuse of power reported and nobody who went through it seems to think it was excessive given the circumstances.

I certainly don't remember a case where they locked anything down like this before.  Even New York was just 'closed for business' for a few days but we were all pretty confident there were no more airplanes coming.  We didn't have people driving down the street throwing explosives at the cops (that's Saturdays).  I was happy when they shut down air traffic.

As for Miranda, the only time they seem to use this exception recently that I know about (there is your in) was Zacarias Moussaoui AKA hijacker #20 and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab who wanted to blow up a plane.  You don't think they are going to come after you and me for running the stop light do you?

DO YOU!

I mean it could happen but it's highly unlikely.  You know, like most people could find themselves with an eel up their buttocks but they don't.  Why not warn everyone of the danger of sticking an eel up your butt?  I mean I'll bet that happens a lot more in this country than the FEDs invoking the public safety exception.

Is this really about my rights, or your fear about the big bad boogieman?

And of course...for heaven sakes don't stick an eel up your butt no matter how good an idea it seems at the time!
 
2013-04-20 01:51:06 PM  
Hey anyone that was listening to the feeds. Many hours before the capture there was chatter on the radio about a male in his 60s with a deadmans trigger etc and they had EODs removing his cloths.

What ever happened with that?
 
2013-04-20 01:58:43 PM  
Alternative ending: No one finds him in the boat.
He bleeds out and dies.
They expand the search.
Last night's rain washes away any blood trail.
Trail goes cold and the cops scratch their heads for a week, but life goes on in beantown.
Boat owner doesn't notice anything for a couple of weeks until he's raking the yard and the wind shifts and the odor of decomp has him retching on the lawn.
His wife sees him through the window and dials 911.
An EMT smells a familiar odor, and viola', collects the reward.
 
2013-04-20 01:59:10 PM  

luxup: This is what I don't get...

The residents of Boston staying in their houses willingly when asked by the police.  I'm not aware of anyone being arrested for walking their dogs or going to the store (there most have been those people).  I'm sure the cops asked anyone they saw to please remain indoors and there are absolutely 0 reports that I am aware of where anyone said otherwise.  In this day in age of cell phones you would think that if it DID happen there would at least be a tweet.

All I ever heard were announcements from the police saying the city is in lock down, please stay inside and people did.  Why is that a problem?  There was no abuse of power reported and nobody who went through it seems to think it was excessive given the circumstances.

I certainly don't remember a case where they locked anything down like this before.  Even New York was just 'closed for business' for a few days but we were all pretty confident there were no more airplanes coming.  We didn't have people driving down the street throwing explosives at the cops (that's Saturdays).  I was happy when they shut down air traffic.

As for Miranda, the only time they seem to use this exception recently that I know about (there is your in) was Zacarias Moussaoui AKA hijacker #20 and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab who wanted to blow up a plane.  You don't think they are going to come after you and me for running the stop light do you?

DO YOU!

I mean it could happen but it's highly unlikely.  You know, like most people could find themselves with an eel up their buttocks but they don't.  Why not warn everyone of the danger of sticking an eel up your butt?  I mean I'll bet that happens a lot more in this country than the FEDs invoking the public safety exception.

Is this really about my rights, or your fear about the big bad boogieman?

And of course...for heaven sakes don't stick an eel up your butt no matter how good an idea it seems at the time!


The unanimous thought around here was pretty much a collective:  "Go get him boys".  A few people whined a bit on hour 10 or so, but whats surprising is that it didn't happen sooner.  We complaint just to complain, even when we agree.

Also, the city really wasn't shut down.  The issue is that the major parts of the city that ended up looking desolate are also 90% commercial.  1 million people use the MBTA a day, and when it was closed at 5am, everyone took a collective 3 day weekend.  DTX/Financial District/Back Bay is going to look as dead as Wallstreet on Easter Monday when no one went to work.

Pretty much all the residential neighborhoods not across from Watertown were bustling because it was a warm spring day.  Shops open, people out, ect.  Mood was a bit somber, but that was expected.  But you didn't see that on the news because there was no reason for the media to be in Southie, or Dorchester, or Roxie.  Everything happened on Boylston or over in Cambridge/Watertown.
 
2013-04-20 02:05:05 PM  
Good morning er whatevers, y'all!

*catlets amoebafuse back into singlecat*
 
2013-04-20 02:12:10 PM  

way south: Kittypie070: ontariolightning: Question: Would residents of a Republican city accept what was "minimal" martial law, like how they locked down Boston, if the same situation occurred?

No, some of the wilder-eyed drooly ones maybe would start shooting the po-po.

You've got to put the situation in context.
There was a dangerous snake in someone's house and anyone would have been jumping on the tables and demanding it be removed. If the residents are openly consenting then they'll overlook a temporary violation in the spirit of the moment.
Hell, they'd probably taken up arms and joined the search if the sheriff asked them to. That is how it would have to have been done in the messy days before homeland security and massive police departments.

The problem is making sure the cops don't abuse those powers or forget to relinquish them the moment the situation is resolved.
Again, this is in the context of hunting for a mad bomber who's been tearing up the town. Would the government get away with these methods in a search for common crooks?
Probably not
.


Good morning all.

i.chzbgr.com

Just having some fun.
 
2013-04-20 02:18:22 PM  

mikaloyd: GleefulFiend: You do know that after climbing into the boat, he was involved in a firefight with police, right? That sort of thing has been known to alter a person's physical condition. I'm not aware of any account in which he climbed out of the boat under his own power.

[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x500]


he climbed out of the boat, yes. so why everyone saying he was unconscious?
 
2013-04-20 02:21:18 PM  
 
2013-04-20 02:23:13 PM  

dbirchall: shifty lookin bleeder: Agarista: Was the boat within the 20-block lockdown area?

No.

Yeah.  Great job of setting a perimeter, bringing in tons of manpower and equipment and making sure everything inside the perimeter was in fact clear... but ProTip for next time, if you're after someone, it helps to set a perimeter that has them inside it. ;)



They were also checking out every suspicious-person sighting, abandoned backpack, and open garage door OUTSIDE the perimeter. And the boat was apparently just barely outside the perimeter, close enough that the owner didn't go out for a smoke until the all-clear had been given.

IANALEO, but it seems like there should have been a trail of blood inside the perimeter which could have been followed to the boat, and this is about the only nit I can pick here.
 
2013-04-20 02:25:51 PM  
assets.nydailynews.com

*Not getting a kick out of these replies*
 
2013-04-20 02:27:34 PM  
So many trolls in here thinking that keeping the populace safe from bombs and dangerous fugitives = "waste of money and time". I'm sorry, poopsies, does actually finding and catching suspects make you that angry? Would you like to disband all of our law enforcement so you can have your chance to play cowboy and show them how it's done?
 
2013-04-20 02:37:01 PM  

irishman4: ya'll can call this piece of shiat a "citizen" all you want in defense of his alleged miranda rights, however, the process to become a "citizen" is broken also. time to stop giving rights to these pieces of crap and allowing this to happen. the 9/11 terrorists were in this country for a long time, not really citizens, but they probably could have got citizenship if they wanted. farking joke.



(farky'd as: Damn liberals. Wanting that damn Constitution to be followed and all 7708885)

Man, you are one disappointing mentality.

Try these on.

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-20 02:46:31 PM  
assets.nydailynews.com
OWW, MY BALLS!!b>
 
2013-04-20 02:54:02 PM  

yukichigai: The feds can legally question him about things which are of an immediate concern to public safety, like say all those damn bombs he and his brother scattered around the place. None of what they ask him can be used in court, and if they stray away from questions concerning public safety the feds can have the crap sued out of them.


That's what I was thinking
 
2013-04-20 02:59:50 PM  

clyph: Kittypie070: Aww. Is widdle clyph sad that his holy criminal killer heros got apprehended by the dirty pigs?

No, Clyph is pissed that the pigs stomped their dirty jackboots all over the Constitution in their fruitless show of force.  Putting a city under virtual martial law didn't accomplish jack shiat.  Putting the perp's pictures on TV and having people man the phones did.

Oh, and I'm not overly impressed with their marksmanship, either.



Ummm...

The police didn't lock down all of Boston. They were, in fact, surprised to hear that public transit had been shut down...and that shutdown is what led to everyone getting a day off work.

And the police were also getting calls from local residents complaining that their houses had NOT been searched.

Was the police response perfect in every way? No, but they could have been a hell of a lot more heavy-handed than they actually were in response to perps throwing IEDs at them.

FWIW, I'm not usually a police apologist, having had first-hand experience with both the good and the bad. But I also heard many hours of police communications during this search, and your armchair critique seems based more on your own fantasies than on reality.
 
2013-04-20 03:00:18 PM  

Rockstone: yukichigai: The feds can legally question him about things which are of an immediate concern to public safety, like say all those damn bombs he and his brother scattered around the place. None of what they ask him can be used in court, and if they stray away from questions concerning public safety the feds can have the crap sued out of them.

That's what I was thinking


Uh, No.


High Value Detainee Interrogation Group
The rule waiving the Miranda warning does not set a precise limit on how long a suspect can be interrogated before being advised of his rights, but it likely buys authorities no more than 48 hours.
Richard Engel, NBC News chief foreign correspondent, talks with Rachel Maddow about the likely interrogation of Marathon bombing suspects Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, and how the public celebration of the law enforcement victory in this case undermines what would have been a bragging point for recruiters of terrorists worldwide.
During that time Tsarnaev, 19, will be questioned by a federal government team called the High Value Detainee Interrogation Group, consisting of officials of the FBI, CIA and Defense Department. Though he will not have a lawyer present, any statements he makes during the questioning will be admissible in court
 
2013-04-20 03:08:56 PM  

Cpl.D: ontariolightning: He did not martry himself.. so does that mean he is not the US definition of terrorist

The US definition of "terrorist" (mil def anyway) is someone who "uses tactics of inciting terror to further religious, political, or ideological goals."

Dying isn't a qualifier.


Since we don't have a clue about his motivations, this wasn't terrorism by your definition, and should be a multiple homicide for Massachusetts to prosecute.

I agree.
 
2013-04-20 03:15:11 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: does actually finding and catching suspects make you that angry


I'm not at all angry that a civilian found him, no. I don't know if he would've been found sooner or later if the guy hadn't stayed in his house at the request of the police. Perhaps the "stay inside" should've been "please check your property and report anything suspicious"?
 
2013-04-20 03:18:03 PM  
Aaaaahh.....I really REALLY overdid the snotty kid retort to clyph there.

And I'd like to offer an apology for that.
 
2013-04-20 03:58:41 PM  
I noticed that nobody ever answers this question.  Since the police response was obviously flawed, I mean it must have been with all these complaints how would you suggest it be different?

You can't say 'Well, I would searched where he was, not where he wasn't" because that as you know would just be stupid.  It really would.

So please put your money where your mouth is and actually offer an alternative solution.  I mean I would love to know what it is.

Here is a piece of wisdom for you before you respond...
 
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do.
 
2013-04-20 04:06:22 PM  
neil diamond at fenway park to sing sweet caroline, was pretty freaking awesome.
 
2013-04-20 04:58:51 PM  

medius: Fark getting kinda farked made me go to Reddit.


darog.smbks.net

Well... bye.
 
2013-04-20 05:01:42 PM  
WTFDYW:  any statements he makes during the questioning will be admissible in court

Yep. the Quarles Court clearly states that under the PSE any evidence obtained during that questioning can be used in court. It has to be limited to the scope of public protection. It can even be used if he invoked counsel. I'm not sure how much depth that allows the Feds but I'm pretty sure it would allow them to find out if there were more bombs around or some kind of sleeper cell laying in wait to strike. And it's been around for almost 30 years so people complaining now are just blowing smoke.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulle ti n/february2011/legal_digest
 
2013-04-20 05:14:50 PM  
*burbles with witless happines at draa*
 
2013-04-20 05:15:52 PM  
 
2013-04-20 05:31:17 PM  

BullBearMS: What Obama is doing now has nothing to do with immediate threat. Here's text from the FBI memo that leaked.


When Bush did it with Zacarias Moussaoui were you just as upset?
 
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