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(The Big Story)   Boy Scouts of America figure today would be a good day to announce they are proposing to lift ban on gays as youth members. It's not like anything else is going on that would overshadow such a major announcement   (bigstory.ap.org) divider line 178
    More: Interesting, Boy Scouts of America, United Way, National Council on Disability, youths, gays  
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2708 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2013 at 2:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-19 01:59:07 PM
they're announcing a proposal?

Next they're going to hold a meeting to discuss possibly having another meeting to figure out the language of the proposal.
 
2013-04-19 01:59:12 PM
Under pressure over its long-standing ban on gays, the Boy Scouts of America is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders.

"Congratulations on reaching Eagle Scout! Ohh you just turned 18? Happy birthday, now get the fark out!"
 
2013-04-19 01:59:56 PM
So when is the announcement that the LDS church will be withdrawing their financial support?
 
2013-04-19 02:00:04 PM
They should have held off a week or two

This wont get the attention that this deserves. This would probably be the top news story on a normal day.
 
2013-04-19 02:01:15 PM

cman: his wont get the attention that this deserves. This would probably be the top news story on a normal day.


Which is probably why they picked today to make the announcement.
 
2013-04-19 02:05:48 PM

Aarontology: they're announcing a proposal?


This report per the board member who co-chaired the committee that reviewed the recommendation to revise the color of the book that regulation's in.
 
2013-04-19 02:12:13 PM

cman: They should have held off a week or two

This wont get the attention that this deserves. This would probably be the top news story on a normal day.


They might be trying to keep it under the radar so it doesn't get politicized as much.
 
2013-04-19 02:16:10 PM
ABOUT TIME!

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-19 02:27:21 PM

Man On A Mission: cman: his wont get the attention that this deserves. This would probably be the top news story on a normal day.

Which is probably why they picked today to make the announcement.


Bingo. "Okay, we'll let gay kids in, but the catch is we don't TELL anyone we're letting gay kids in."
 
2013-04-19 02:30:09 PM

kronicfeld: Aarontology: they're announcing a proposal?

This report per the board member who co-chaired the committee that reviewed the recommendation to revise the color of the book that regulation's in.


They're keeping it grey
 
2013-04-19 02:30:35 PM
All day on CNN's mobile site, this story was part of the list of Boston bomber stories.
 
2013-04-19 02:30:40 PM
California was going to start taxing youth groups that excluded gay/atheist people. I still think they should pass the law - Gay and Atheist still can't be leaders, so the Boy Scouts are obviously not negotiating in good faith. If you (BSoA) want to remain a youth group, play by the rules. If they don't, pay the penalty and stop pretending you are one.
 
2013-04-19 02:32:25 PM
I still dont get it.

is there a checkbox on the application that asks if you are gay?

no?

well then.

how do they stop gay people from joining then?
 
2013-04-19 02:33:11 PM
What will they call the "Homophobe" merit badge now?
 
2013-04-19 02:33:38 PM
Now for us atheists.
 
2013-04-19 02:34:11 PM

The Pope of Manwich Village: What will they call the "Homophobe" merit badge now?


"the FWB"  badge
 
2013-04-19 02:34:52 PM

kvinesknows: is there a checkbox on the application that asks if you are gay?


Nope, but there is one that asks what religion you are/what church you attend, so atheists will still be excluded
 
2013-04-19 02:35:38 PM
meh, this is like the third time they've reconsidered that proposal.  Let's see what kind of newsworthy stuff is happening 6, 12, 18... months from now.
 
2013-04-19 02:37:23 PM
Good for them.  It's about goddamned time.
 
2013-04-19 02:39:22 PM

kvinesknows: I still dont get it.

is there a checkbox on the application that asks if you are gay?

no?

well then.

how do they stop gay people from joining then?


THIS.  I'm pretty sure it's in the rules to exclusively NOT ask.  If the National office approves this it will be an utter disaster for BSA.  The vast majority of BSA Troops use churches or other religious buildings to hold their meetings.  Those buildings may not be available for use if this goes through.  Also, I don't know why this is getting pushed so hard. There are plenty of other organizations, geared directly towards gays, that provide the same kind of activities and training that the BSA does.
 
2013-04-19 02:40:06 PM

scottydoesntknow: Under pressure over its long-standing ban on gays, the Boy Scouts of America is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders.

"Congratulations on reaching Eagle Scout! Ohh you just turned 18? Happy birthday, now get the fark out!"


I'm actually ok with that outcome.  You want to come up with a ridiculous spec of what makes a good role model and fire anybody who doesn't live up to it, well that's stupid but doesn't hurt my feelings all that much.

Throwing kids out because of one perceived sin they committed is unconscionable though.  They're not there to be role models, they're the ones being modeled to.  It's understood that they're imperfect.  They're there to improve themselves.
 
2013-04-19 02:40:35 PM
When you're the last holdout to finally accept change, you don't deserve congratulations.

Aarontology: they're announcing a proposal?

Next they're going to hold a meeting to discuss possibly having another meeting to figure out the language of the proposal.


This too.
 
2013-04-19 02:41:44 PM
As a Scout leader who thinks they should do away with the policy completely, this is crap. If it is a "moral" issue how can you justify allowing gay youth be Scouts? And if it is not a "moral" issue, what is it? Gays are sexual predators? Gays are icky?

What is the justification for allowing a gay man who is 17 years and 364 days old participate in Scouting but kicking him out one day later?
 
2013-04-19 02:42:40 PM
Looking at the language, I believe it reads that people "cannot be excluded on the basis of sexual preference alone."

In other words, gay? Can't exclude you.  Gay and funny-looking?  Totally valid reason to exclude.  Gay and first name starts with 'e'?  Gone.
 
2013-04-19 02:43:04 PM
More "jam" at the next Jamboree.
 
2013-04-19 02:46:07 PM
As a former boy scout and a current gay. They BSA is a disgrace, whatever they decide, I would like their organization go away. They are partially culpable for the continued demonization of LGBT people in this country. Whatever they do to back away from their vile stance is too little too late, the damage has already been done.
 
2013-04-19 02:47:20 PM
At no point did Scouting ever delve into people's personal lives.  The debate started when gay members made it into an issue.  Up until this point it has been an unofficial DADT.

And a massive point was missed by the vocal few.  Scouting isn't in the business of discussing sexuality with youth members as a rule.  No-one really cares who receives your penis, because sex isn't in the discussion to start with.

I also find it interesting the go-to joke about Scouting is the supposed gayness, a la SNL and South Park, when the whole point of keeping vocal gays out is to eliminate gay behavior from the group.
 
2013-04-19 02:47:27 PM

serial_crusher: scottydoesntknow: Under pressure over its long-standing ban on gays, the Boy Scouts of America is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders.

"Congratulations on reaching Eagle Scout! Ohh you just turned 18? Happy birthday, now get the fark out!"

I'm actually ok with that outcome.  You want to come up with a ridiculous spec of what makes a good role model and fire anybody who doesn't live up to it, well that's stupid but doesn't hurt my feelings all that much.

Throwing kids out because of one perceived sin they committed is unconscionable though.  They're not there to be role models, they're the ones being modeled to.  It's understood that they're imperfect.  They're there to improve themselves.


So a gay person can't be a role model? That's basically what you're saying. It's ok for the kids to be in it because it's just one "percieved" sin and they aren't role models, but a person over 18 is suddenly a role model and that sin is now countable?

When I was in scouts, the second you took a leadership position (patrol, troop, etc.) you were considered a role model. And if you weren't leading right, you could lose that position.
 
2013-04-19 02:47:52 PM

RangerTaylor: Looking at the language, I believe it reads that people "cannot be excluded on the basis of sexual preference alone."

In other words, gay? Can't exclude you.  Gay and funny-looking?  Totally valid reason to exclude.  Gay and first name starts with 'e'?  Gone.


No, basically it means "Gay and no complaints or problems at all? Can't exclude. Gay and any possible little minor problem or complaint raised? Gone"
 
2013-04-19 02:48:35 PM
The ultimate Friday Dump.

If you want something to get lost in the media - announce it on a Friday. If you really want it to get lost, wait for a Friday when something really important or noteworthy is happening.
 
2013-04-19 02:49:17 PM
So the KKK says they are no longer a hate group, but how many openly black people have joined?
 
2013-04-19 02:50:14 PM

nightronin: kronicfeld: Aarontology: they're announcing a proposal?

This report per the board member who co-chaired the committee that reviewed the recommendation to revise the color of the book that regulation's in.

They're keeping it grey


 My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors heard the Boy Scouts talk about admitting gays last night. I guess it's pretty serious.
 
2013-04-19 02:51:25 PM

cman: They should have held off a week or two

This wont get the attention that this deserves. This would probably be the top news story on a normal day.


Given that they've angered "moral" right wing bigots by not fully condemning teh gay and they've angered the rest of us by implying that gay men are predators, I think the day they picked was completely intentional.
 
2013-04-19 02:53:02 PM

kvinesknows: I still dont get it.

is there a checkbox on the application that asks if you are gay?

no?

well then.

how do they stop gay people from joining then?


Generally, human being discuss aspects of their daily life with other human beings, especially in a group or club like setting.
 
2013-04-19 02:53:22 PM
Subby, are you implying that this is some sort of back door announcement?
 
2013-04-19 02:54:51 PM
Under pressure over its long-standing ban on gays, the Boy Scouts of America is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders.

Pedophiles are still welcome, however.
 
2013-04-19 02:57:54 PM

DubtodaIll: THIS. I'm pretty sure it's in the rules to exclusively NOT ask. If the National office approves this it will be an utter disaster for BSA. The vast majority of BSA Troops use churches or other religious buildings to hold their meetings. Those buildings may not be available for use if this goes through. Also, I don't know why this is getting pushed so hard. There are plenty of other organizations, geared directly towards gays, that provide the same kind of activities and training that the BSA does.


This is exactly what people said when the BSA started allowing black people to join. That's probably why it took 40 or 50 years for integration to be an official thing.

Anyway, this has been in the works for a while now. For a few months I've been getting mail, email, and phone calls asking what I think about the proposal. It's been an open secret for years that many scouts and local organizations just don't care. At the national level, it seems a good portion of the "next-in-lines" would like to see the policy banning gays dropped.

It's still decades away from happening, if history is to be believed.
 
2013-04-19 02:58:20 PM

serial_crusher: scottydoesntknow: Under pressure over its long-standing ban on gays, the Boy Scouts of America is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders.

"Congratulations on reaching Eagle Scout! Ohh you just turned 18? Happy birthday, now get the fark out!"

I'm actually ok with that outcome.  You want to come up with a ridiculous spec of what makes a good role model and fire anybody who doesn't live up to it, well that's stupid but doesn't hurt my feelings all that much.

Throwing kids out because of one perceived sin they committed is unconscionable though.  They're not there to be role models, they're the ones being modeled to.  It's understood that they're imperfect.  They're there to improve themselves.


And if you haven't "improved" yourself by being ungay by your 18th birthday, get out?  Really?  You're okay with that?

DubtodaIll: Also, I don't know why this is getting pushed so hard. There are plenty of other organizations, geared directly towards gays, that provide the same kind of activities and training that the BSA does.


No, they're aren't and you know it. And what the fark kind of justification is that, anyway? Are people still using "separate but equal" rationalizations? And the reason why this is being "pushed so hard" is because bigotry is generally frowned upon in America, and hanging a "NO HOMOS" sign on your club door will get you noticed in 2013.
 
2013-04-19 02:59:25 PM
nothing satisfies TF libs
 
2013-04-19 02:59:30 PM
Actually this is a pretty good day for this. Most of the people who would take the greatest issue with this are going to be glued to whatever bullsh*t 24-hour news channel they prefer and may miss the crawler about the announcement.
 
2013-04-19 03:00:01 PM
The church is letting all their pedophiles get charged?

The states will finally pull its head out of its ass?

Best Korea will drop its warmongering pissing contest with the South and the USA?

/oh, right, the Boston bombings
//I keed, I keed
///wouldn't want my worst enemy to go through what those who've lost their lives/limbs/family member
 
2013-04-19 03:01:15 PM

bingethinker: Under pressure over its long-standing ban on gays, the Boy Scouts of America is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders.

Pedophiles are still welcome, however.


So long as you are outwardly heterosexual and ideally opposite-sex married, as the overwhelming majority of pedophiles are.
/Why would a pedophile attract unwanted scrutiny by declaring  he's gay?
 
2013-04-19 03:06:06 PM
The libs weren't happy after BSA let in the Negros and the Papists, so I doubt this'll make them happy.
 
2013-04-19 03:07:33 PM
DubtodaIll: Also, I don't know why this is getting pushed so hard. There are plenty of other organizations, geared directly towards gays, that provide the same kind of activities and training that the BSA does.

No, they're aren't and you know it. And what the fark kind of justification is that, anyway? Are people still using "separate but equal" rationalizations? And the reason why this is being "pushed so hard" is because bigotry is generally frowned upon in America, and hanging a "NO HOMOS" sign on your club door will get you noticed in 2013.


So, because an organization who has been going about it's business swimmingly for decades does not agree with your world-view, they must accept your world view or die?  There's plenty of rhetoric for you to use to win the argument, but all I see if people who perceived themselves as bullied being bullies.
Also Campfire, Navigators USA, The Baden-Powell Service Association, and SpiralScouts International are welcoming members.
I guess the issue for me is, no one is forcing you to join, if you think Scouting provides great opportunities but you don't agree with your politics, nothing is stopping you from starting your own organization.  But I guess you see their success and think you deserve part of it regardless of what morals they have against yours?
 
2013-04-19 03:11:43 PM

scottydoesntknow: Under pressure over its long-standing ban on gays, the Boy Scouts of America is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders.

"Congratulations on reaching Eagle Scout! Ohh you just turned 18? Happy birthday, now get the fark out!"


I have to admire BSA's sheer stupidity in trying to straddle the fence on this issue in a way gauranteed to piss BOTH sides off.  The anti-gay folks are just as opposed to gay scouts as they are gay scout leaders (unless the BSA invents some sort of gay-conversion merit badge)   and gay rights folks will find the stance of "okay we'll tolerate you filthy homos JOINING the scouts but c'mon you really didn;t think you were fit to LEAD, do you?"  As insulting as the overall ban

It's like my old scoutmaster used to say "just bite down on the rag and try to relax,  it'll be over quicker if you stop struggling so much"
 
2013-04-19 03:16:32 PM

serialsuicidebomber: Subby, are you implying that this is some sort of back door announcement?


Well played, sir.
 
2013-04-19 03:19:35 PM
www.troll.me
 
2013-04-19 03:22:10 PM

codergirl42: As a former boy scout and a current gay. They BSA is a disgrace, whatever they decide, I would like their organization go away. They are partially culpable for the continued demonization of LGBT people in this country. Whatever they do to back away from their vile stance is too little too late, the damage has already been done.


Then start your own youth organization...see if you can do better....and shut up.
 
2013-04-19 03:24:13 PM

DubtodaIll: DubtodaIll: Also, I don't know why this is getting pushed so hard. There are plenty of other organizations, geared directly towards gays, that provide the same kind of activities and training that the BSA does.

No, they're aren't and you know it. And what the fark kind of justification is that, anyway? Are people still using "separate but equal" rationalizations? And the reason why this is being "pushed so hard" is because bigotry is generally frowned upon in America, and hanging a "NO HOMOS" sign on your club door will get you noticed in 2013.

So, because an organization who has been going about it's business swimmingly for decades does not agree with your world-view, they must accept your world view or die?  There's plenty of rhetoric for you to use to win the argument, but all I see if people who perceived themselves as bullied being bullies.
Also Campfire, Navigators USA, The Baden-Powell Service Association, and SpiralScouts International are welcoming members.
I guess the issue for me is, no one is forcing you to join, if you think Scouting provides great opportunities but you don't agree with your politics, nothing is stopping you from starting your own organization.  But I guess you see their success and think you deserve part of it regardless of what morals they have against yours?


Yes, Captain Strawman, I think the scouts should die. That's exactly what I said. I'm such a bully.

Blatant bigotry is allowed in this country because of the First Amendment. Protesting blatant bigotry is also allowed in this country because of said Amendment. Protesting is not "bullying". If the Scouts want to ban gays or blacks or Jews, that's their right, but they shouldn't be getting any support from the government. No tax breaks, no deals on rent of public property.
The fact is, more and more Americans find this sort of bigotry unacceptable and aren't afraid to say it. The Scouts are free to ignore them or change. Clearly, they're starting to do the latter. It's a moral issue, and the Scouts are the ones behaving immorally.
 
2013-04-19 03:25:43 PM
How kind of them to treat gay people like everyone else, but please don't hurt yourself bending over to pat your own back.
 
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