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(ABC)   Dumbass kid gets lost in Southeastern Oregon emulating dumbass guy from 'Into the wild'. Dumbass tag is for dumbasses. Dumbass   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 154
    More: Dumbass, Oregon Wildernesses, Oregon, Oklahoma, snowdrifts, severe storm, Piedmont  
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5861 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2013 at 8:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-18 09:38:12 PM

Delawheredad: The book was good but it tried real hard to make McCandles into some sort of hero to the point where the author LIES about the kid. It was NOT the wild potatoes that killed him, despite what the book says/, The dumbass starved to death and was woefully unprepared to winter over in Alaska. Jon Krakauer  does not even allow a mention of the fact that McCandles was quite probably bipolar.,His actions in the book have all the hallmarks of someone on a manic high.(Burning money, abandoning college, friends and established relationships ... among many others point to someone divorced from reality.) McCandles was also at the right age for where schizophrenia first manifests itself. The kid was most likely out of his mind and out of hit depth yet  Krakauer so identified with his protagonist that he made him something he was not and never could be .. a hero.


The bipolar stuff is speculation...Krakauer would've be remiss to put that IN the book.  It might be true, but so what?  it makes the kid LESS blameworthy, imho.

And he starved to death because the plant he ate made him too ill to hike out as he planned...so the faulty text IS responsible, to a degree.

You can argue all day long about what he SHOULD have done, but you can't deny the kid's basic premise...unless you're one of those people who thinks getting hauled up Mt. Everest by Sherpas counts as an adventure.
 
2013-04-18 09:39:04 PM

Janusdog: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

I'm not from Alaska, and I think he was a farking retard who got what he deserved.


I think most normal people with a decent amount of common sense felt this way as well. I thought the guy was acting immature and selfish, but I don't know how close the movie was based on reality.
 
2013-04-18 09:39:35 PM

KeelingLovesCornholes: Great book and movie (soundtrack is incredible), but neither are instructional guides. Dumbass.


I have to admit, as much as I hate pretty much everything she has ever done, Kristen Stewert did a fine job on Angle from Montgomery. Obviously nothing compared to Bonnie Riatt, Susan Tedeschi or the great John Prine but I was impressed.
 
2013-04-18 09:39:42 PM

jdbob: revrendjim: He ended up in SouthEAST Oregon near Steens Mountain. That is rough, remote country, and it's still winter weather out there. I'm betting he is completely dead.

Obligatory:


This.
Last one out please get the lights.
 
2013-04-18 09:39:57 PM

addy2: PunGent: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

Then they probably just read the media accounts, not the book.

thank you for that information. I didn't know that. I'm less inclined to point and laugh out of sheer ignorance.


Krakauer's an excellent author, I recommend everything he's written.  He's a reporter, though, and his books often read like a series of reporter's notes all jammed together...still worthwhile, though.
 
2013-04-18 09:41:16 PM

SuperDuper28: Janusdog: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

I'm not from Alaska, and I think he was a farking retard who got what he deserved.

I think most normal people with a decent amount of common sense felt this way as well. I thought the guy was acting immature and selfish, but I don't know how close the movie was based on reality.


Read the book.
 
2013-04-18 09:43:30 PM

Delawheredad: The book was good but it tried real hard to make McCandles into some sort of hero to the point where the author LIES about the kid. It was NOT the wild potatoes that killed him, despite what the book says/, The dumbass starved to death and was woefully unprepared to winter over in Alaska. Jon Krakauer  does not even allow a mention of the fact that McCandles was quite probably bipolar.,His actions in the book have all the hallmarks of someone on a manic high.(Burning money, abandoning college, friends and established relationships ... among many others point to someone divorced from reality.) McCandles was also at the right age for where schizophrenia first manifests itself. The kid was most likely out of his mind and out of hit depth yet  Krakauer so identified with his protagonist that he made him something he was not and never could be .. a hero.


See, I didn't get that at all from the book...I thought Krakauer was trying to understand him, not put him on a pedestal.
 
2013-04-18 09:43:36 PM

jdbob: revrendjim: He ended up in SouthEAST Oregon near Steens Mountain. That is rough, remote country, and it's still winter weather out there. I'm betting he is completely dead.

Obligatory:

[www.certsoft.com image 479x382]


I laughed.  I saved the pic.

The HUGE problem is that < 50% of people in Oregon are actually Oregonians.

Meaning that most people in Oregon (i.e. those in western Oregon) have never been east of Hood/Bachelor.  They are farking clueless and honestly think it's a green forest.
 
2013-04-18 09:45:45 PM
If this bozo dies can we charge Sean Penn with accessory to suicide? I read the book. It is well written but it is a hagiography McCandles has literally NO flaws. It is not a book about a real person but rather one about a phantom Jon Krakauer created. There is absolutely NOTHING he did that could be considered heroic, other than his huge donation of cash to Oxfam. And ANYBODY can open their wallet.
 
2013-04-18 09:47:46 PM

PunGent: SuperDuper28: Janusdog: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

I'm not from Alaska, and I think he was a farking retard who got what he deserved.

I think most normal people with a decent amount of common sense felt this way as well. I thought the guy was acting immature and selfish, but I don't know how close the movie was based on reality.

Read the book.


Look, I readthe farking book. I still think the guy was an idiot with no concept of what the wild is like. Whether there was incorrect info in the book or not has nothing to do with the fact that if it was possible to survive in that area, there'd already be people there
 
2013-04-18 09:48:10 PM

PunGent: addy2: PunGent: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

Then they probably just read the media accounts, not the book.

thank you for that information. I didn't know that. I'm less inclined to point and laugh out of sheer ignorance.

Krakauer's an excellent author, I recommend everything he's written.  He's a reporter, though, and his books often read like a series of reporter's notes all jammed together...still worthwhile, though.


Didn't he write " Into Thin Air?" That book was impossible to put down.
 
2013-04-18 09:49:40 PM

Quaker: [d18qjg80b1mkbg.cloudfront.net image 394x278]


Came for this, leaving satisfied.
 
2013-04-18 09:51:01 PM
The name is "Dumass"
 
2013-04-18 09:52:37 PM
Please stay out of our woods finding your dead body makes hunting awkward
 
2013-04-18 09:53:32 PM
Thanks for being polite, sheriff, but this is not a search and rescue.

/eat a pine tree

i281.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-18 09:54:31 PM
www.cyclonefanatic.com
 
2013-04-18 09:56:25 PM
Krakauer IS an excellent author but Into the Wild is easily his weakest book, He so identifies with McCandles that he loses ALL objectivity. In his other books he considers other possible motives for his protagonists actions. In Into Thin Air her rejects any other narrative than McCandles was a misguided but courageous individual. He see so much of himself in the kid that he can't see McCandles flaws. Krakauer even lies about how the kid died rather than admit that he starved to death through stupidity and lack of foresight..
 
2013-04-18 09:58:36 PM

PunGent: You can argue all day long about what he SHOULD have done, but you can't deny the kid's basic premise...unless you're one of those people who thinks getting hauled up Mt. Everest by Sherpas counts as an adventure.


No, you can and frankly should. It is actually possible have an adventure for which you have properly prepared yourself, yet will still be challenging and rewarding. There is a vast middle ground you have overlooked.
 
2013-04-18 10:00:13 PM

PunGent: Delawheredad: The book was good but it tried real hard to make McCandles into some sort of hero to the point where the author LIES about the kid. It was NOT the wild potatoes that killed him, despite what the book says/, The dumbass starved to death and was woefully unprepared to winter over in Alaska. Jon Krakauer  does not even allow a mention of the fact that McCandles was quite probably bipolar.,His actions in the book have all the hallmarks of someone on a manic high.(Burning money, abandoning college, friends and established relationships ... among many others point to someone divorced from reality.) McCandles was also at the right age for where schizophrenia first manifests itself. The kid was most likely out of his mind and out of hit depth yet  Krakauer so identified with his protagonist that he made him something he was not and never could be .. a hero.

The bipolar stuff is speculation...Krakauer would've be remiss to put that IN the book.  It might be true, but so what?  it makes the kid LESS blameworthy, imho.

And he starved to death because the plant he ate made him too ill to hike out as he planned...so the faulty text IS responsible, to a degree.

You can argue all day long about what he SHOULD have done, but you can't deny the kid's basic premise...unless you're one of those people who thinks getting hauled up Mt. Everest by Sherpas counts as an adventure.


That depends, is his "basic premise" that wilderness survival in Alaska is a "pick up a book and teach yourself" proposition?


No map, no compass, no real survival skills, mental illness is the most charitable hypothesis.
 
2013-04-18 10:03:43 PM
Where's OR-7 hanging out nowadays?
 
2013-04-18 10:04:04 PM
A well versed Boy Scout half the age of McCandles would have had a better chance to survive in the same situation. First of all he would have had a map and a compass and would have been adequately dressed for the weather. When you look at it that way you can ONLY conclude that McCandles was an amazingly naive dumbass. ,
 
2013-04-18 10:07:41 PM

Delawheredad: If this bozo dies can we charge Sean Penn with accessory to suicide? I


Why? Unless there is a special director's cut in which McCandles doesn't die, the movie made pretty clear that Darwin is out there waiting for those foolish enough to take on Mother Nature poorly prepared. Even if it gloried McCandles' journey, it still showed the ultimate result.
 
2013-04-18 10:07:49 PM

addy2: PunGent: addy2: PunGent: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

Then they probably just read the media accounts, not the book.

thank you for that information. I didn't know that. I'm less inclined to point and laugh out of sheer ignorance.

Krakauer's an excellent author, I recommend everything he's written.  He's a reporter, though, and his books often read like a series of reporter's notes all jammed together...still worthwhile, though.

Didn't he write " Into Thin Air?" That book was impossible to put down.


Yep.

And after reading it, I'm NEVER going up Everest...
 
2013-04-18 10:11:23 PM

amishkarl: PunGent: SuperDuper28: Janusdog: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

I'm not from Alaska, and I think he was a farking retard who got what he deserved.

I think most normal people with a decent amount of common sense felt this way as well. I thought the guy was acting immature and selfish, but I don't know how close the movie was based on reality.

Read the book.

Look, I readthe farking book. I still think the guy was an idiot with no concept of what the wild is like. Whether there was incorrect info in the book or not has nothing to do with the fact that if it was possible to survive in that area, there'd already be people there


So incorrect factual information from an otherwise-reliable source is irrelevant?

Your buy medication at the drugstore, and the label is wrong, it's completely YOUR fault?

You're allergic to nuts, you buy food that says "no nuts", it has nuts in it...it's YOUR fault?

I'll agree the kid was naive, sure...but the factual error in his field text was a non-negligible contributing factor in his death, in my opinion.
 
2013-04-18 10:14:19 PM

PunGent: And after reading it, I'm NEVER going up Everest...


I have 'Into Thin Air' but haven't read it yet. But from what I've seen in documentaries, the main threat on Everest these days is getting caught in a traffic jam. Can't imagine getting killed not because of a rock slide or falling in a crevasse but rather because a bunch of people with little mountaineering experience were taking too long on the Chinese ladder. Chimborazo, while not particularly difficult compared to many other summits, does have more interesting bragging rights (closest to the sun, furthest from the center of the earth) than Everest.
 
2013-04-18 10:16:54 PM
Bear food.
 
2013-04-18 10:16:55 PM
Never understood the hatred toward McCandles.  There doesn't seem to be nearly as much of a negative reaction to the kid from people outside the US who read the book or see the movie.

Is there some cultural taboo or something that he violated that I'm unaware of?  I've encountered people who get quite angry.  Almost as if this was a kind if personal affront.
 
2013-04-18 10:17:06 PM

PunGent: amishkarl: PunGent: SuperDuper28: Janusdog: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

I'm not from Alaska, and I think he was a farking retard who got what he deserved.

I think most normal people with a decent amount of common sense felt this way as well. I thought the guy was acting immature and selfish, but I don't know how close the movie was based on reality.

Read the book.

Look, I readthe farking book. I still think the guy was an idiot with no concept of what the wild is like. Whether there was incorrect info in the book or not has nothing to do with the fact that if it was possible to survive in that area, there'd already be people there

So incorrect factual information from an otherwise-reliable source is irrelevant?

Your buy medication at the drugstore, and the label is wrong, it's completely YOUR fault?

You're allergic to nuts, you buy food that says "no nuts", it has nuts in it...it's YOUR fault?

I'll agree the kid was naive, sure...but the factual error in his field text was a non-negligible contributing factor in his death, in my opinion.


Fine. He bet his life on a single source, and that source was wrong. he's still the one that placed the bet.


In Alaska, we mock people like that beside doing so saves lives. He was an idiot who in no way should be emulated.
 
2013-04-18 10:17:32 PM

poorjon: PunGent: You can argue all day long about what he SHOULD have done, but you can't deny the kid's basic premise...unless you're one of those people who thinks getting hauled up Mt. Everest by Sherpas counts as an adventure.

No, you can and frankly should. It is actually possible have an adventure for which you have properly prepared yourself, yet will still be challenging and rewarding. There is a vast middle ground you have overlooked.


Oh, sure, there's a middle ground, I absolutely agree.  And I haven't overlooked it...I much prefer to overlook it from a comfortable townhouse with a good meal in my belly and a drink by my computer while discussing it :)

I'm presenting the KID'S point of view, not agreeing with it.  I understand it, is all...I wouldn't DO it.

HIS point is, if you want a REAL adventure, you have to deliberately not take a map.  Go old school.

Ie, you have to handicap yourself.  He wasn't satisfied by a properly-equipped modern expedition...he wouldn't have found it "challenging and rewarding", as you put it.

His underlying premise IS sound, in a crazy kind of way.
 
2013-04-18 10:19:01 PM

PunGent: So incorrect factual information from an otherwise-reliable source is irrelevant?

Your buy medication at the drugstore, and the label is wrong, it's completely YOUR fault?

You're allergic to nuts, you buy food that says "no nuts", it has nuts in it...it's YOUR fault?

I'll agree the kid was naive, sure...but the factual error in his field text was a non-negligible contributing factor in his death, in my opinion


Crappy comparisons. Food and medication are nessecities. It's buy or die (or at least suffer). If the label is wrong, no not your fault. Tramping off into the bush to get back to nature and planning to live off wild plants is frankly dumb. Even if the field guide was 100% perfect I would't be putting my trust in it.
 
2013-04-18 10:19:43 PM

amishkarl: PunGent: SuperDuper28: Janusdog: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

I'm not from Alaska, and I think he was a farking retard who got what he deserved.

I think most normal people with a decent amount of common sense felt this way as well. I thought the guy was acting immature and selfish, but I don't know how close the movie was based on reality.

Read the book.

Look, I readthe farking book. I still think the guy was an idiot with no concept of what the wild is like. Whether there was incorrect info in the book or not has nothing to do with the fact that if it was possible to survive in that area, there'd already be people there


Also, people have been living around Mt. Denali for thousands of years.
 
2013-04-18 10:22:10 PM

Name_Omitted: PunGent: Delawheredad: The book was good but it tried real hard to make McCandles into some sort of hero to the point where the author LIES about the kid. It was NOT the wild potatoes that killed him, despite what the book says/, The dumbass starved to death and was woefully unprepared to winter over in Alaska. Jon Krakauer  does not even allow a mention of the fact that McCandles was quite probably bipolar.,His actions in the book have all the hallmarks of someone on a manic high.(Burning money, abandoning college, friends and established relationships ... among many others point to someone divorced from reality.) McCandles was also at the right age for where schizophrenia first manifests itself. The kid was most likely out of his mind and out of hit depth yet  Krakauer so identified with his protagonist that he made him something he was not and never could be .. a hero.

The bipolar stuff is speculation...Krakauer would've be remiss to put that IN the book.  It might be true, but so what?  it makes the kid LESS blameworthy, imho.

And he starved to death because the plant he ate made him too ill to hike out as he planned...so the faulty text IS responsible, to a degree.

You can argue all day long about what he SHOULD have done, but you can't deny the kid's basic premise...unless you're one of those people who thinks getting hauled up Mt. Everest by Sherpas counts as an adventure.

That depends, is his "basic premise" that wilderness survival in Alaska is a "pick up a book and teach yourself" proposition?


No map, no compass, no real survival skills, mental illness is the most charitable hypothesis.


Again, read the book.  No map and no compass were deliberate choices, and make sense if you accept his underlying premise.

I realize most people don't accept it, just like most people aren't Amish.
 
2013-04-18 10:23:10 PM

PunGent: amishkarl: PunGent: SuperDuper28: Janusdog: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

I'm not from Alaska, and I think he was a farking retard who got what he deserved.

I think most normal people with a decent amount of common sense felt this way as well. I thought the guy was acting immature and selfish, but I don't know how close the movie was based on reality.

Read the book.

Look, I readthe farking book. I still think the guy was an idiot with no concept of what the wild is like. Whether there was incorrect info in the book or not has nothing to do with the fact that if it was possible to survive in that area, there'd already be people there

So incorrect factual information from an otherwise-reliable source is irrelevant?

Your buy medication at the drugstore, and the label is wrong, it's completely YOUR fault?

You're allergic to nuts, you buy food that says "no nuts", it has nuts in it...it's YOUR fault?

I'll agree the kid was naive, sure...but the factual error in his field text was a non-negligible contributing factor in his death, in my opinion.


The error in the guide was made up, and the poisoning itself is also unlikely.  From  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_(book)#Cause_of_death :

However, in 1997, Dr. Thomas Clausen-the biochemist at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, who examined the wild potato plant (Hedysarum alpinum) for Jon Krakauer-concluded after exhaustive testing that no part of H. alpinum is toxic. Neither the roots nor the seeds. Accordingly, McCandless could not have poisoned himself in the way suggested by Krakauer in his 1996 book Into the Wild, and in every subsequent reprinting of the book over the next decade. Likewise, Dr. Clausen's analysis of the wild sweet pea (Hedysarum mackenzii)-given as the cause of Chris's death in the 2007 Sean Penn film-has also turned up no toxic compounds, and there is not a single account in modern medical literature of anyone ever being poisoned by this species of plant. Moreover, Penn's on-screen excerpt from the ethno-botany guide Chris was using, indicating otherwise, is a complete fiction, for all that this plant lore text actually states is that the wild sweet pea "is reported to be poisonous" (Tana'ina Plantlore, Priscilla Russell Kari, p. 128). The rest of it is simply made up. Thus, even if McCandless made a mistake of botany, something that even Krakauer claims is unlikely, he would not have been poisoned as portrayed in the Penn film
 
2013-04-18 10:23:16 PM

PunGent: Actually the 'Into the Wild' kid gets a bad rap.

He discovered...the hard way...a flaw in a basic, respected field guide to plants.

So, in my book, he took risks, but wasn't a COMPLETE dumbass.

I agree with his basic premise...in an era when you can get carried up Mt. Everest, the only way to have a REAL adventure is to not use a map, GPS, etc...you have to handicap yourself.

I wouldn't do it, any more than I'd turn Amish...but I understand the impulse.


You're relying too much on what Krakauer writes in the book. His theory on how McCandless died is controversial at best.
 
2013-04-18 10:23:20 PM

penthesilea: Is there some cultural taboo or something that he violated that I'm unaware of? I've encountered people who get quite angry. Almost as if this was a kind if personal affront.


We're a nation of people who buy Range Rovers to pick the kids up from middle school and dress up in North Face jackets to go to the Urban Outfitters at the mall. McCandles showed what happens to the average middle class American who actually tries to do the whole rugged individualist thing instead of just playing make believe. He burst people's bubbles. No one likes to have their self delusion exposed.
 
2013-04-18 10:23:24 PM

EngineerAU: PunGent: And after reading it, I'm NEVER going up Everest...

I have 'Into Thin Air' but haven't read it yet. But from what I've seen in documentaries, the main threat on Everest these days is getting caught in a traffic jam. Can't imagine getting killed not because of a rock slide or falling in a crevasse but rather because a bunch of people with little mountaineering experience were taking too long on the Chinese ladder. Chimborazo, while not particularly difficult compared to many other summits, does have more interesting bragging rights (closest to the sun, furthest from the center of the earth) than Everest.


It's the HACE that got me...I like my brain un-boiled, thank you.
 
2013-04-18 10:23:28 PM

penthesilea: Never understood the hatred toward McCandles.  There doesn't seem to be nearly as much of a negative reaction to the kid from people outside the US who read the book or see the movie.

Is there some cultural taboo or something that he violated that I'm unaware of?  I've encountered people who get quite angry.  Almost as if this was a kind if personal affront.


its just that 'muricans hate what they don't understand
 
2013-04-18 10:23:50 PM

penthesilea: Never understood the hatred toward McCandles.  There doesn't seem to be nearly as much of a negative reaction to the kid from people outside the US who read the book or see the movie.

Is there some cultural taboo or something that he violated that I'm unaware of?  I've encountered people who get quite angry.  Almost as if this was a kind if personal affront.


It's a modern day cautionary story that tells kids to stay the fark out of the wilderness until you are ready for it.


There have been several copycats who get themselves into trouble, and we have to go in after them, so yeah, we take affront to people who try and make him out to be a hero worth emulating.
 
2013-04-18 10:24:08 PM

PunGent: Also, people have been living around Mt. Denali for thousands of years



Oh, I must have missed the part of the  book where it explains that he was a member of whatever tribe, Speaking of which, the native tribe would have known not to eat whatever plant in that season cuz great-great great-greatgrandpa's brother tried it.
 
2013-04-18 10:27:49 PM

PunGent: addy2: PunGent: addy2: PunGent: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

Then they probably just read the media accounts, not the book.

thank you for that information. I didn't know that. I'm less inclined to point and laugh out of sheer ignorance.

Krakauer's an excellent author, I recommend everything he's written.  He's a reporter, though, and his books often read like a series of reporter's notes all jammed together...still worthwhile, though.

Didn't he write " Into Thin Air?" That book was impossible to put down.

Yep.

And after reading it, I'm NEVER going up Everest...


same here. But the book did stimulate interest in those who do. those and Wilfred Thesiger's books I read as a kid. Pretty fascinating stuff.
 
2013-04-18 10:31:14 PM

Name_Omitted: PunGent: amishkarl: PunGent: SuperDuper28: Janusdog: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

I'm not from Alaska, and I think he was a farking retard who got what he deserved.

I think most normal people with a decent amount of common sense felt this way as well. I thought the guy was acting immature and selfish, but I don't know how close the movie was based on reality.

Read the book.

Look, I readthe farking book. I still think the guy was an idiot with no concept of what the wild is like. Whether there was incorrect info in the book or not has nothing to do with the fact that if it was possible to survive in that area, there'd already be people there

So incorrect factual information from an otherwise-reliable source is irrelevant?

Your buy medication at the drugstore, and the label is wrong, it's completely YOUR fault?

You're allergic to nuts, you buy food that says "no nuts", it has nuts in it...it's YOUR fault?

I'll agree the kid was naive, sure...but the factual error in his field text was a non-negligible contributing factor in his death, in my opinion.

Fine. He bet his life on a single source, and that source was wrong. he's still the one that placed the bet.


In Alaska, we mock people like that beside doing so saves lives. He was an idiot who in no way should be emulated.


Hey, it's a free country...mock him all you want.

But remember...odds are, you'll probably live long enough to rely on a medication your doctor prescribes...then you'll be the one 'betting your life on a single source'.  Hopefully there won't be an error in the prescription your doc writes.

How about your brake mechanic?  Did you check HIS work, after that last overhaul?  You won't really know until you're sliding toward that big truck, will you?

How about the migrant worker who picked the tomatoes in your last taco?  he have drug-resistant TB?
Shouldn't have relied on that source of food I guess.

His death is just a more graphic example of decisions we all make every day.
 
2013-04-18 10:32:47 PM

amishkarl: PunGent: So incorrect factual information from an otherwise-reliable source is irrelevant?

Your buy medication at the drugstore, and the label is wrong, it's completely YOUR fault?

You're allergic to nuts, you buy food that says "no nuts", it has nuts in it...it's YOUR fault?

I'll agree the kid was naive, sure...but the factual error in his field text was a non-negligible contributing factor in his death, in my opinion

Crappy comparisons. Food and medication are nessecities. It's buy or die (or at least suffer). If the label is wrong, no not your fault. Tramping off into the bush to get back to nature and planning to live off wild plants is frankly dumb. Even if the field guide was 100% perfect I would't be putting my trust in it.


Yeah, plants weren't all he was planning to live on...read the book.
 
2013-04-18 10:35:21 PM

rkane1: PunGent: amishkarl: PunGent: SuperDuper28: Janusdog: devildog123: Most of the people up here in Alaska think the guy from into the wild was a farking retard, who got what he deserved.

I'm not from Alaska, and I think he was a farking retard who got what he deserved.

I think most normal people with a decent amount of common sense felt this way as well. I thought the guy was acting immature and selfish, but I don't know how close the movie was based on reality.

Read the book.

Look, I readthe farking book. I still think the guy was an idiot with no concept of what the wild is like. Whether there was incorrect info in the book or not has nothing to do with the fact that if it was possible to survive in that area, there'd already be people there

So incorrect factual information from an otherwise-reliable source is irrelevant?

Your buy medication at the drugstore, and the label is wrong, it's completely YOUR fault?

You're allergic to nuts, you buy food that says "no nuts", it has nuts in it...it's YOUR fault?

I'll agree the kid was naive, sure...but the factual error in his field text was a non-negligible contributing factor in his death, in my opinion.

The error in the guide was made up, and the poisoning itself is also unlikely.  From  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_(book)#Cause_of_death :

However, in 1997, Dr. Thomas Clausen-the biochemist at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, who examined the wild potato plant (Hedysarum alpinum) for Jon Krakauer-concluded after exhaustive testing that no part of H. alpinum is toxic. Neither the roots nor the seeds. Accordingly, McCandless could not have poisoned himself in the way suggested by Krakauer in his 1996 book Into the Wild, and in every subsequent reprinting of the book over the next decade. Likewise, Dr. Clausen's analysis of the wild sweet pea (Hedysarum mackenzii)-given as the cause of Chris's death in the 2007 Sean Penn film-has also turned up no toxic compounds, and there is not a single account ...


I'd have to dig up my copy...iirc it was neither roots nor seeds, but I haven't read it in years.

Haven't seen the movie, won't comment on it.
 
2013-04-18 10:35:36 PM

EngineerAU: penthesilea: Is there some cultural taboo or something that he violated that I'm unaware of? I've encountered people who get quite angry. Almost as if this was a kind if personal affront.

We're a nation of people who buy Range Rovers to pick the kids up from middle school and dress up in North Face jackets to go to the Urban Outfitters at the mall. McCandles showed what happens to the average middle class American who actually tries to do the whole rugged individualist thing instead of just playing make believe. He burst people's bubbles. No one likes to have their self delusion exposed.


Bullshiat. He tried to do the rugged individualist thing, but he did it completely wrong. It's a book that shouldn't have been written, or at least should have been written from a different perspective. He went to Alaska woefully unprepared, and despite the fact that he walked 5 miles into the woods and lived in a farking bus, we're led to believe he was on this grand adventure to live off the land. He was a model of what not to do, and yet somebody has to glorify this guy by writing a book that wasn't titled "How to be a farking dumbass". Some people actually do much more extreme things in far more unforgiving environments, and live to the tell the tale. Because they know what they're doing!

/Now ask me how I feel about Between a Rock and a Hard Place/127 Hours
 
2013-04-18 10:38:07 PM

Third Leg: PunGent: Actually the 'Into the Wild' kid gets a bad rap.

He discovered...the hard way...a flaw in a basic, respected field guide to plants.

So, in my book, he took risks, but wasn't a COMPLETE dumbass.

I agree with his basic premise...in an era when you can get carried up Mt. Everest, the only way to have a REAL adventure is to not use a map, GPS, etc...you have to handicap yourself.

I wouldn't do it, any more than I'd turn Amish...but I understand the impulse.

You're relying too much on what Krakauer writes in the book. His theory on how McCandless died is controversial at best.


Yep, I'm relying on the book.

Actually, my memory of a book I read years ago.

At the end of the day, NONE of us were there, and, iirc, his body was too far gone for an autopsy, so we're ALL speculating.
 
2013-04-18 10:38:33 PM

PunGent: It's the HACE that got me...I like my brain un-boiled, thank you.


High altitude is weird. My only experience is when I hiked Kilimanjaro. While the rest of my party had some symptoms of altitude sickness for almost the entire hike, I was great until summit night. That night however is filled with huge gaps in my memory. My hiking companions all were seeing things like wild animals ready to attack us and one member of my party almost ended up in a physical fight with a guide from another group after they spent some quality time yelling at each other over the location of the path. Which was stupid since it's basically a huge seemingly endless pile of screen so there is no one path.

When we got to the summit it was daylight and I hallucinated an entire ranger station up there. I was walking around the "station" looking for the door to the toilet. I'm guessing it was really a huge rock. Glad my imagination didn't find the toilet. It was wild to see everyone else up there switch several times from being totally rational to being totally crazy. At one point I was convinced that our guide was trying to kill us. Luckily they're use to it. I can't imagine going on for another 10,000 feet, acclimation or not.
 
2013-04-18 10:41:12 PM

amishkarl: PunGent: Also, people have been living around Mt. Denali for thousands of years


Oh, I must have missed the part of the  book where it explains that he was a member of whatever tribe, Speaking of which, the native tribe would have known not to eat whatever plant in that season cuz great-great great-greatgrandpa's brother tried it.


So you admit it's possible to live off the land there, without a map or a compass.

Christ, it's like pulling teeth with some of you people.

 
2013-04-18 10:43:43 PM

Third Leg: EngineerAU: penthesilea: Is there some cultural taboo or something that he violated that I'm unaware of? I've encountered people who get quite angry. Almost as if this was a kind if personal affront.

We're a nation of people who buy Range Rovers to pick the kids up from middle school and dress up in North Face jackets to go to the Urban Outfitters at the mall. McCandles showed what happens to the average middle class American who actually tries to do the whole rugged individualist thing instead of just playing make believe. He burst people's bubbles. No one likes to have their self delusion exposed.

Bullshiat. He tried to do the rugged individualist thing, but he did it completely wrong. It's a book that shouldn't have been written, or at least should have been written from a different perspective. He went to Alaska woefully unprepared, and despite the fact that he walked 5 miles into the woods and lived in a farking bus, we're led to believe he was on this grand adventure to live off the land. He was a model of what not to do, and yet somebody has to glorify this guy by writing a book that wasn't titled "How to be a farking dumbass". Some people actually do much more extreme things in far more unforgiving environments, and live to the tell the tale.


Yes, and with the right equipment, people can survive in outer space.

NOT the point the kid was trying to make.
 
2013-04-18 10:45:04 PM

Third Leg: EngineerAU: penthesilea: Is there some cultural taboo or something that he violated that I'm unaware of? I've encountered people who get quite angry. Almost as if this was a kind if personal affront.

We're a nation of people who buy Range Rovers to pick the kids up from middle school and dress up in North Face jackets to go to the Urban Outfitters at the mall. McCandles showed what happens to the average middle class American who actually tries to do the whole rugged individualist thing instead of just playing make believe. He burst people's bubbles. No one likes to have their self delusion exposed.

Bullshiat. He tried to do the rugged individualist thing, but he did it completely wrong. It's a book that shouldn't have been written, or at least should have been written from a different perspective. He went to Alaska woefully unprepared, and despite the fact that he walked 5 miles into the woods and lived in a farking bus, we're led to believe he was on this grand adventure to live off the land. He was a model of what not to do, and yet somebody has to glorify this guy by writing a book that wasn't titled "How to be a farking dumbass". Some people actually do much more extreme things in far more unforgiving environments, and live to the tell the tale. Because they know what they're doing!

/Now ask me how I feel about Between a Rock and a Hard Place/127 Hours


the excerpts I read didn't seem to glorify him. Odd the different readings on this. It's been a while, and as I said earlier I'm ignorant on any follow ups but I certainly didn't come away with the idea he was being glorified.
 
2013-04-18 10:45:13 PM

Third Leg: Some people actually do much more extreme things in far more unforgiving environments, and live to the tell the tale. Because they know what they're doing!


True but those people don't play dress up wearing mountaineering clothes to the mall while driving an SUV that has never seen anything more challenging than a pothole. While those who know what they're doing rightfully criticize McCandles, most who do so are boring average people who simply delude themselves into thinking they're something they're not. McCandles is an inconvenient reminder of how poorly most people would fare if they really faced living in the wild. Those with actual skills aren't the average person.
 
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