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(North Jersey)   Pope redirects $2000 "new pope" bonuses for 4500+ Vatican workers to charitable organizations   (northjersey.com) divider line 188
    More: Spiffy, Vatican, Federico Lombardi, cost reduction, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Holy See  
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9399 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2013 at 5:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-18 07:38:59 PM

chuggernaught: He's starting to step on toes.  My guess is he's gone soon, to be replaced with Pope Business As Usual.


John Paul the First who was young and healthy and jogged every day died of a heart attack in his sleep after he said he wanted to reform the Vatican Bank.

Nothing suspicious about that. It was God's will.
 
2013-04-18 07:39:39 PM

GAT_00: How about he donates some of his own money instead of other people's?


FTFA:

"The money will be drawn from the pontiff's personal charity budget "
 
2013-04-18 07:43:40 PM

mitchcumstein1: GAT_00: How about he donates some of his own money instead of other people's?

FTFA:

"The money will be drawn from the pontiff's personal charity budget "


GAT is a well known troll. Don't waste your time.
 
2013-04-18 07:44:04 PM

GAT_00: How about he donates some of his own money instead of other people's?


How much money does Pope Francis have?

GAT_00: The Vatican's funds?


I bet you don't claim your workplace's revenue as your own personal income.
 
2013-04-18 07:51:26 PM

cptjeff: I mean, Jesus Christ himself rejected the "sell crap off to help a few poor people now" idea as moronic. Remember that bit about, "the poor will always be with us" when the disciples attacked him for letting Mary rub expensive oils on his feet?


ALL PRAISE SUPPLY-SIDE JESUS!
s8.postimg.org
 
2013-04-18 07:54:42 PM

xria: ladyfortuna: dugitman: This guy seems determined to work himself into having a "heart attack".

He's actually making me start to semi-kinda-maybe-sorta respect the church, or at least part of it. We'll see where he goes I guess.

Really? He writes an order to give away other peoples money to charity and that gets him respect?


For the record, I misread the headline and didn't realize til now. My bad.
 
2013-04-18 07:55:43 PM
Come on, now. They still get the hot cocoa sampler.
Look at all the brown stuff of their fingers.
 
2013-04-18 08:02:00 PM

Marine1: BiffDangler: So wait a second.  Imagine if you are entitled to a bonus and your boss says "hey, I am going to do something really good and give away your bonus!"

I think everyone here would be pissed.

This is the Church we're talking about. Most of these guys took a vow of poverty.


They all took vows of celibacy as well ... we all know how that worked out.
 
2013-04-18 08:02:41 PM

cptjeff: I mean, Jesus Christ himself rejected the "sell crap off to help a few poor people now" idea as moronic. Remember that bit about, "the poor will always be with us" when the disciples attacked him for letting Mary rub expensive oils on his feet?


KJV Mark 10:21 - Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
 
2013-04-18 08:02:48 PM
Wow...  GAT is really turning up the anti-Catholic rhetoric today.  Did you even read the farking article?  He didn't give away other people's bonuses, he cut the bonuses due to economic strain in Europe, and donated a sizable chunk from the papal charity account.  More than is typically donated in one go, which is why its noticeable or significant.

Second, what the hell 'loot' do you think they have.  Of course it's worth billions... have you been in the Sistine Chapel?  The artwork and artifacts in the chapel and surrounding museum are EASILY worth billions.  Of course, you CAN'T sell that because its more or less ALL priceless artifacts.  Do you think they just have a big storehouse of gold coins they melt down to make new chalices and crosiers all the time?  They USE the farking old, historic stuff that was made in the political heyday of the church.  And real estate?  do you think there are vast tracts of land sitting empty and unused?  If he sells that off to 'help the poor' he'd also be firing the Vatican staff because that's where they live and work!  And the churches?  The diocese (not the vatican) owns those (a diocese has separate finances and no financial connection to the Vatican).  The building on the land is almost always owned by the parish itself and paid by parishioners.  Even if the Pope wanted to, he doesn't have ANY authority to sell those lands OR buildings.  And the stuff in them (the gold and artwork) is almost always gold plating or gold leaf, not solid gold, and is almost always either an artifact, or donated directly by a wealthy parishioner (kind of like when Joseph of Arimathea donated a rather expensive tomb (hewn out of solid rock and never used) and burial supplies, or when one of the servants anointed Jesus' feet with crazy expensive oil (regardless of whether you believe in the stories, those are Gospel stories that are part of the background of the Church).

Also Vatican accounts typically DON'T come from individuals donating to the church.  If I donate to the church it goes to my Parish for upkeep and running the joint, as well as an amount to charity as decided by the parish finance committee, and transparently communicated on a regular basis.  A small amount goes to the diocese for running of diocesan offices, and a special collection goes to the Bishop's charity campaign or other special campaigns.  Vatican funds come mainly from investments, and are handled primarily through the Kingdom of the Vatican,  not the Holy See.  Again, a legacy of the political glory days of the church when the Vatican was a large and wealthy Kingdom.  You could make the argument that  those assets are liquidated and donated, but what does liquidating many millions of investment holdings do to the local, European, and world economies besides drive the markets down?  Also, it would severely restrict the Church's ability to function in terms of communication, living, and charity.  If you drain a 62 million euro charity account in one go it's gone.  If you manage it generously it provides charity for years to come.

Oh, and the vow of poverty... the ONLY ones in the church who take those are religious.  That means people who belong to a specific religious order, such as the Jesuits, Franciscans, Capuchins, Redemptorists, Oblates, Sisters of Mercy, etc. etc. etc., who require one.  A priest, bishop, cardinal, and the Pope do not have one (except Francis because he is Jesuit, he is the exception not the rule).

But don't let facts get in the way of your hate.  We couldn't have that on Fark.
 
2013-04-18 08:04:30 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: cptjeff: I mean, Jesus Christ himself rejected the "sell crap off to help a few poor people now" idea as moronic. Remember that bit about, "the poor will always be with us" when the disciples attacked him for letting Mary rub expensive oils on his feet?

ALL PRAISE SUPPLY-SIDE JESUS!
[s8.postimg.org image 526x426]


Swing! and a miss.

Seriously, Jesus tells his disciples to shut it when they suggest that they should have sold the oil for funds to give to the poor, in no uncertain terms, the message being that the lady (I got mixed up, it's just some random person, not Mary Magdalene) was doing a kindness, and that that shouldn't be criticized because of the opportunity cost. There will always be poor people, and eschewing other good things is moronic and unproductive.

Keeping priceless art freely accessible to the public, and from the Church's POV, spiritually inspire people, is a good, worthy of protecting in its own right. You don't rob Peter to pay Paul, to use the cliche.
 
2013-04-18 08:06:25 PM

foxy_canuck: But don't let facts get in the way of your hate. We couldn't have that on Fark.


You're right. We shouldn't ask them to liquidate some of their staggering wealth to help the poor. It is better to ask people who can barely make ends meet to make donations!

History has shown they don't practice what they preach ... they also preach that molesting children is wrong.
 
2013-04-18 08:07:01 PM

mitchcumstein1: GAT_00: How about he donates some of his own money instead of other people's?

FTFA:

"The money will be drawn from the pontiff's personal charity budget "


And so why exactly could the bonuses not be paid and that money be donated anyway?
 
2013-04-18 08:08:09 PM

Invisible Pedestrian: cptjeff: I mean, Jesus Christ himself rejected the "sell crap off to help a few poor people now" idea as moronic. Remember that bit about, "the poor will always be with us" when the disciples attacked him for letting Mary rub expensive oils on his feet?

KJV Mark 10:21 - Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.


Matthew 26:6-13

6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,
7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.
8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Jesus is more explicit about telling the disciples to shut it in some other versions, but KJV to match against KJV.
 
2013-04-18 08:09:19 PM
So we're going for 2013 as another "Year of Three Popes?" I'll take "mysterious poison," the "other" papal "throne," and one of the preferitti.

Here's an idea: When a Pope dies, why do they insist on beating him with a silver hammer? "Hey, Pope! You alive int here?!" [Bangs hammer on Pope's forehead] "You alive?!" [Bang] "He not there. Get his ring."
 
2013-04-18 08:12:47 PM
Ddi they change the article or something? Because all I'm reading on that link is that the pope has cancelled 'new pope' bonuses to vatican workers because the vatican posted a deficit and they can't afford it.
 
2013-04-18 08:13:22 PM

GAT_00: And so why exactly could the bonuses not be paid and that money be donated anyway?


Read the f*cking article.
 
2013-04-18 08:14:33 PM

mitchcumstein1: GAT_00: And so why exactly could the bonuses not be paid and that money be donated anyway?

Read the f*cking article.


You done got trolled son.

I'll educate every threat this guy posts in, even if takes me years and years...
 
2013-04-18 08:15:35 PM

cptjeff: Matthew 26:6-13


So you've successfully demonstrated how self-contradictory the bible is*. Was there some other point you were trying to get to?

*already obvious to anyone who's actually read the bible
 
2013-04-18 08:15:47 PM

GAT_00: And so why exactly could the bonuses not be paid and that money be donated anyway?


In some threads you make a lucid, reasonable point.

This is not one of those threads.
 
2013-04-18 08:16:41 PM

Comic Book Guy: iheartscotch: Aarontology: How about you sell off some of the property the Church has instead of f*cking over the workers?

The problem is; almost all of the Church's property is tied up in buildings and art work. There are in the neighborhood of 300 churches, just in Rome. But, most of those churches have stood since at least the 14th century. They all have become, for lack of a better term, sacred cows. The art community would shiat a brick if the Church sold so much as one masterpiece.

/ Those workers are VERY well compensated; pensions, 401k's, and it's not like they get paid minimum wage.

Who gives a shiat how many bricks the "art community" shiats?  They are privately held pieces of art, which I'm sure will garner quite the market and dollar figures if they are put up for sale, art community be damned.  If you want to be "equitable" about it you can sell it to a museum, and take those proceeds and hand that out to the poor, I'm sure those millions would go a lot further than whatever was donated from redirecting bonuses.


The church's art was created to inspire awe and contemplation of God, not to generate wealth. It would be going against the purpose of the artists and those who commissioned the art or donated it to the church to sell it into someone's private collection, someone who might not even be a Christian and who might not display it. If someone has the money to buy that art, they should instead donate that money to charity. If the would-be buyer isn't someone who would do that, well that's the problem with selling it and reducing it to a unit of commerce.
 
2013-04-18 08:17:11 PM

Capo Del Bandito: You done got trolled son.

I'll educate every threat this guy posts in, even if takes me years and years...


I thought that too for a while, but 'm pretty sure he's a True Believer.
 
2013-04-18 08:19:31 PM

GoldSpider: I thought that too for a while, but 'm pretty sure he's a True Believer.


In what exactly?

/I'm curious if the strawman you're about to build will pass code
 
2013-04-18 08:19:57 PM

GoldSpider: I thought that too for a while, but 'm pretty sure he's a True Believer.


In a world of information and cynicism, I doubt that true believers exist unless they're truly bugfark crazy like the Westboro folks.

And I don't think those types know how to work a keyboard.
 
2013-04-18 08:20:48 PM
I'm a lapsed Catholic but I've always wondered about the logic of "sell the Vatican, feed the poor." Who has the money to buy the Vatican? And if they do, then why aren't they feeding the poor instead of buying art?
 
2013-04-18 08:23:59 PM

Farking Canuck: In what exactly?


In reflexively hating everything remotely connected to conservative ideology.
 
2013-04-18 08:25:55 PM

GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: mitchcumstein1: GAT_00: mitchcumstein1: GAT_00: Really?  You decided to screw over the janitor instead of selling off a millennia of loot that has accumulated in the Vatican?

That's just an asshole move.

That's not at all what he did, and you damn well know it.

Yes he did.  The Vatican's loot is estimated in the billions.  This is a million dollars and this is the donation he makes?

So he shouldn't have made any donation? Who'd he screw over? And who's going to buy the billions of dollars worth of "loot" from the Vatican? You act like he could just put it on Craigslist.

How about he donates some of his own money instead of other people's?

What do you consider to be "his own money," GAT?

His own salary?  The Vatican's funds?  How exactly would you feel if your boss declared that you not only get a bonus, but you'll never see it because he's donating it for you!


The Pope gets no salary.  He is spending the Vatican's funds.

I would feel conflicted if my life's purpose and job were to help the poor and my boss said he was helping the poor instead of helping me with a bit of money I really didn't need.  "To stop suffering, stop greediness," as the Buddha said.
 
2013-04-18 08:26:35 PM

GoldSpider: Farking Canuck: In what exactly?

In reflexively hating everything remotely connected to conservative ideology.


I'm cynical, i need proof those types of humans exist.
 
2013-04-18 08:30:10 PM

Capo Del Bandito: BarkingUnicorn: What do you consider to be "his own money," GAT?

Don't feed the well known troll.


GAT does not troll me.

"If your happiness depends on what somebody else does, I guess you do have a problem." Richard Bach.

Yes, I do have that problem occasionally.  But not with GAT.
 
2013-04-18 08:38:58 PM

GoldSpider: Farking Canuck: In what exactly?

In reflexively hating everything remotely connected to conservative ideology.


I'll allow it.

Lucky there are no conservatives that do that the other way.
 
2013-04-18 08:39:10 PM

foxy_canuck: Wow...  GAT is really turning up the anti-Catholic rhetoric today.  Did you even read the farking article?  He didn't give away other people's bonuses, he cut the bonuses due to economic strain in Europe, and donated a sizable chunk from the papal charity account.  More than is typically donated in one go, which is why its noticeable or significant.

Second, what the hell 'loot' do you think they have.  Of course it's worth billions... have you been in the Sistine Chapel?  The artwork and artifacts in the chapel and surrounding museum are EASILY worth billions.  Of course, you CAN'T sell that because its more or less ALL priceless artifacts.  Do you think they just have a big storehouse of gold coins they melt down to make new chalices and crosiers all the time?  They USE the farking old, historic stuff that was made in the political heyday of the church.  And real estate?  do you think there are vast tracts of land sitting empty and unused?  If he sells that off to 'help the poor' he'd also be firing the Vatican staff because that's where they live and work!  And the churches?  The diocese (not the vatican) owns those (a diocese has separate finances and no financial connection to the Vatican).  The building on the land is almost always owned by the parish itself and paid by parishioners.  Even if the Pope wanted to, he doesn't have ANY authority to sell those lands OR buildings.  And the stuff in them (the gold and artwork) is almost always gold plating or gold leaf, not solid gold, and is almost always either an artifact, or donated directly by a wealthy parishioner (kind of like when Joseph of Arimathea donated a rather expensive tomb (hewn out of solid rock and never used) and burial supplies, or when one of the servants anointed Jesus' feet with crazy expensive oil (regardless of whether you believe in the stories, those are Gospel stories that are part of the background of the Church).

Also Vatican accounts typically DON'T come from individuals donating to t ...


This article explains where the Vatican's money comes from and where it goes.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1202831.htm

Its revenues included 49 million euros ($60.6 million) from the Vatican bank -- which donates to the pope profits from its investments -- as well as contributions from dioceses and religious orders, and returns from the Holy See's financial investments.

Contributions from dioceses (from parishioner collections) amounted to just $32 million in 2011, up from $27 million in 2010 and $31.5 million in 2009.

The Peter's Pence collection, used by the pope for charity and emergency assistance, brought in $69.7 million, up from $67.7 million in 2010, but down from $82.5 million in 2009.

The Peter's Pence collection is an annual fundraiser from parishioners, much like the March of Dimes telethon.

Looks like the majority of the Vatican's money comes from parishioners.
 
2013-04-18 08:44:07 PM

foxy_canuck: Wow...  GAT is really turning up the anti-Catholic rhetoric today.  Did you even read the farking article?  He didn't give away other people's bonuses, he cut the bonuses due to economic strain in Europe, and donated a sizable chunk from the papal charity account.  More than is typically donated in one go, which is why its noticeable or significant.

Second, what the hell 'loot' do you think they have.  Of course it's worth billions... have you been in the Sistine Chapel?  The artwork and artifacts in the chapel and surrounding museum are EASILY worth billions.  Of course, you CAN'T sell that because its more or less ALL priceless artifacts.  Do you think they just have a big storehouse of gold coins they melt down to make new chalices and crosiers all the time?  They USE the farking old, historic stuff that was made in the political heyday of the church.  And real estate?  do you think there are vast tracts of land sitting empty and unused?  If he sells that off to 'help the poor' he'd also be firing the Vatican staff because that's where they live and work!  And the churches?  The diocese (not the vatican) owns those (a diocese has separate finances and no financial connection to the Vatican).  The building on the land is almost always owned by the parish itself and paid by parishioners.  Even if the Pope wanted to, he doesn't have ANY authority to sell those lands OR buildings.  And the stuff in them (the gold and artwork) is almost always gold plating or gold leaf, not solid gold, and is almost always either an artifact, or donated directly by a wealthy parishioner (kind of like when Joseph of Arimathea donated a rather expensive tomb (hewn out of solid rock and never used) and burial supplies, or when one of the servants anointed Jesus' feet with crazy expensive oil (regardless of whether you believe in the stories, those are Gospel stories that are part of the background of the Church).

Also Vatican accounts typically DON'T come from individuals donating to t ...


I think they are referring to the wealth confiscated during the inquisition. Perhaps the Jew gold the Nazi's stole during WW2.
 
2013-04-18 08:46:07 PM
He broke a tradition, not a guarantee.  And it's a tradition that the employees there have likely experienced a whopping 3-5 times in their lifetimes.  As long as it's charities where the money helps the needy (i.e. not the United Way) I like this move.
 
2013-04-18 08:48:29 PM
Invisible Pedestrian
You missed the point of that story.  It's not that everyone should sell everything and give to the poor.  It's that the rich young man was arrogant enough to claim he followed all the laws all the time, and missed the point that he wasn't actually following God, or willing to sacrifice his life of comfort to do so.

Farking Canuck
Who the fark are you talking about?  What 'they'?  There are over a billion Catholics, forming hundreds of thousands of Parishes, under the guidance of thousands of dioceses, who report to hundreds of Cardinals, theologically overseen by the Holy See.  There are many millions of Catholics around the world who work very hard and sacrifice very much to practice what they preach.  The VAST majority of priests are good people who have had no part in the molestation scandals and condemn the actions of those involved.  Some of the bishops and cardinals involved in coverups  haveface the rule of local law, and others are under canonical trial to be defrocked, same goes for many of the priests.  You would be hard pressed to find a Catholic diocese in the western world now that doesn't take child protection VERY seriously.  The diocese is the local unit that makes those sorts of policies for their priests, and the Vatican has directed ALL of the bishops to put policies in place.  Many of our diocese in Canada have been at the leading edge in terms of protecting the vulnerable, having strict policies and oversight in place for over a decade, well before many other organizations and before it was culturally required.  Your own diocese (diocese of Toronto) has a  very comprehensive screening program.  Is it perfect?  No.  There have been a few priests in Ontario charged.  Two were convicted by the civil authorities, one was investigated by the police and charges dropped, and is under investigation again many years later, and another has been stripped of duties and is undergoing investigation.  All of those occurred before child protection was recognized as a necessity.  Does that mean 'Catholics don't practice what they preach'?  Also no... it means power draws good and bad, and that evil people are in the Church too.  Some of them rise to power.  We expect it.  It doesn't make the Church as a whole evil (unless I get to say you are a megalomaniac concentrating power and wealth and raping the environment just like Harper because you are Canadian... if you accept being painted with that brush them I guess at least you're consistent.).
 
2013-04-18 08:55:56 PM

foxy_canuck: Invisible Pedestrian
You missed the point of that story.  It's not that everyone should sell everything and give to the poor.  It's that the rich young man was arrogant enough to claim he followed all the laws all the time, and missed the point that he wasn't actually following God, or willing to sacrifice his life of comfort to do so.


The story has multiple points including, "Put your money  where your mouth is."  Jesus called upon some of the Apostles to abandon their livelihoods and become "fishers of men."
 
2013-04-18 08:57:23 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Jesus called upon some of the Apostles to abandon their livelihoods and become "fishers of men."


Looked at from a skewed perspective, that could have... interesting... meanings.
 
2013-04-18 08:59:18 PM

ladyfortuna: BarkingUnicorn: Jesus called upon some of the Apostles to abandon their livelihoods and become "fishers of men."

Looked at from a skewed perspective, that could have... interesting... meanings.


"When correctly viewed, everything is lewd." Tom Lehrer.
 
2013-04-18 09:01:33 PM

Feral_and_Preposterous: xxmedium: [i.imgur.com image 400x309]

Goddamnitsomuch.

((FIST))


What can I say? I'm a fan of low hanging fruit.

/they make such delicious jams and jellies
//you'll get the next one
 
2013-04-18 09:04:59 PM

foxy_canuck: Farking Canuck
Who the fark are you talking about? What 'they'? There are over a billion Cath

olics, [blah blah blah ...]

I am talking about an organization that still does not cooperate with the police in tracking down all the pedophiles that they have intentionally hidden within their ranks.

I am talking about the millions of people who still financially support this pedophile protection society. Implicitly giving approval to the systematic protection of those that victimize children.

When the catholic church opens all their records to the police of every jurisdiction, cooperate fully with the police (like every legitimate organization must), cleans house of every corrupt member, acknowledges and pays restitution to every victim (not just the ones they couldn't sweep under the rug) then you can start to consider them something other than a criminal organization.

Until this day (which will never come) they are an organization that got away with victimizing the most vulnerable members of our society.

The test of the morality of a society is what it does for its children.
~Dietrich Bonhoeffer

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " ~ Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."
~ Mahatma Ghandi

"Any society, any nation, is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members -- the last, the least, the littlest."
~Cardinal Roger Mahony, In a 1998 letter, Creating a Culture of Life


The catholic church fails these tests miserably.
 
2013-04-18 09:05:31 PM

BarkingUnicorn: foxy_canuck: Invisible Pedestrian
You missed the point of that story.  It's not that everyone should sell everything and give to the poor.  It's that the rich young man was arrogant enough to claim he followed all the laws all the time, and missed the point that he wasn't actually following God, or willing to sacrifice his life of comfort to do so.

The story has multiple points including, "Put your money  where your mouth is."  Jesus called upon some of the Apostles to abandon their livelihoods and become "fishers of men."


So he's trolling?
 
2013-04-18 09:06:30 PM
The money was just resting in my account
 
2013-04-18 09:08:11 PM

Captain Dan: Pope Francis has been riding a streak of good deeds that make me hope for the best.  He's pissing off very powerful interests within the Church.

If he dies of a heart attack this year, I want a full autopsy by an independent medical examiner.


The next Dan Brown novel plot right there

//Along with Robert Langdon banging the Pope's hot niece
 
2013-04-18 09:08:39 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-18 09:09:55 PM

xria: ISO15693: xria: ladyfortuna: dugitman: This guy seems determined to work himself into having a "heart attack".

He's actually making me start to semi-kinda-maybe-sorta respect the church, or at least part of it. We'll see where he goes I guess.

Really? He writes an order to give away other peoples money to charity and that gets him respect?

He gave away money that catholics themselves gave away to THEM as charity, and put it to work in an actual charity to help the poor, instead of lining the pockets of church employees. It was already donated money, given freely to use by the church. Man, I hope you were just trolling :)

/Not catholic, likes this pope though
// "lining the pockets" - what a weird phrase

How can you be so sure that someone that sorts mail or cleans the floors at the Vatican is so flush with cash that a bonus like this would just "line their pockets"? And he hasn't given any new money away to charity at all, he has just canceled the traditional bonus to save the vatican money. The money he has given to charity is from his own charity budget - which he would have given away to charity anyway at some point this year, so charities are gaining nothing whatsoever from this move.

I have no problem with him cutting the bonuses, that is up to him and the vatican accounts and whether they feel they can pay it out. What I have issue with is trying to claim:

1) that the pope giving away money that would normally have been given to someone else is the pope being charitable - if I hacked your bank account and sent $2k of it to a charity (ignoring the legal issues) would you could me as being charitable when I am spending your money?


Well, the LDS Church avoids this sort of problem, because the tithing/donation slips have categories you can have donations directed to, otherwise it's just "to be used at the discretion of the church" - I assume that Catholics have the same sort of thing, and therefore it would be the pope's responsibility to decide where the money goes, and he would have just been doing his job, so the "normally have been given to someone else " thing wouldn't mean much. And I am 100% certain that he didn't direct payroll from service providers/workers.
 
2013-04-18 09:17:52 PM
The clergy aren't the employees here, are they?  I figured the article was talking about the Vatican employees, who are actually employed by the Vatican (e.g. city workers. security, postal services, janitors, kitchen staffs, IT support, etc.)
 
2013-04-18 09:22:02 PM

mitchcumstein1: GAT_00: And so why exactly could the bonuses not be paid and that money be donated anyway?

Read the f*cking article.


Which would return again to my point of selling off some of the millenia of loot.
 
2013-04-18 09:22:32 PM
So wait, why would they receive the bonus for when the Pope dies? The Pope didn't die. He resigned.

And why would you get a bonus when any pope dies? Like in general? That just seems really morbid.
 
2013-04-18 09:34:04 PM

GAT_00: Which would return again to my point of selling off some of the millenia of loot.


Which didn't many any sense the first time you stated it.
 
2013-04-18 09:34:08 PM

BravadoGT: The clergy aren't the employees here, are they?  I figured the article was talking about the Vatican employees, who are actually employed by the Vatican (e.g. city workers. security, postal services, janitors, kitchen staffs, IT support, etc.)


TFA says it includes religious and lay employees of "the Vatican," which properly refers to the Vatican City State.  But the term is often misapplied to the Holy See, the governing organization of the Church.  It's like confusing Washington, DC, with the U. S. government organizations based there.
 
2013-04-18 09:46:38 PM

ladyfortuna: dugitman: This guy seems determined to work himself into having a "heart attack".

He's actually making me start to semi-kinda-maybe-sorta respect the church, or at least part of it. We'll see where he goes I guess.


This.

He reverses diplomatic immunity for the pedophiles, and they're back to neutral in my book.

Which is a big step up from Lawful Evil.
 
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