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(Huffington Post)   Dayton Air Show wanted to "re-enact" Hiroshima, some people had a problem with that   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 149
    More: Dumbass, Dayton Air Show, Blast!, Hiroshima, air shows, film premiere  
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5296 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2013 at 12:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-18 10:49:02 AM  
tuesdaysinsunnypore.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-18 10:54:18 AM  
If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?
 
2013-04-18 10:55:24 AM  
Yet another example of an overreacting nanny state. I'm sure they would only use a tactical nuke for demonstration purposes.
 
2013-04-18 11:00:54 AM  
During our brush fire season?!  Are they nuts?!
 
2013-04-18 11:00:57 AM  
Damn the PC brigade.

I suppose they're going to protest re-enactments of shower time at Auschwitz too.
 
2013-04-18 11:02:28 AM  
www.kenmist.com
The B-29 that was to "drop" the bomb in the demo.  How can anything named "Fifi" be harmful?
 
2013-04-18 11:13:30 AM  
If its 12pm in New York, and 9am in Los Angeles, what time is it in Dayton?

1957

/Old joke from my days working at NCR, which was headquartered in Dayton
//Bocks Car, the B-29 that destroyed Nagasaki, is exhibited at the USAF Museum in Dayton.
 
2013-04-18 11:14:02 AM  
Dammit!  I thought it said Daytona.

/post fail
 
2013-04-18 11:21:59 AM  
I heartily endorse nuking Dayton. All of Ohio, really.
 
2013-04-18 11:22:30 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: If its 12pm in New York, and 9am in Los Angeles, what time is it in Dayton?

1957

/Old joke from my days working at NCR, which was headquartered in Dayton
//Bocks Car, the B-29 that destroyed Nagasaki, is exhibited at the USAF Museum in Dayton.


Lol. I am stealing that joke. It could easily apply to large swathes of the country, or my MS & AL relatives.
 
2013-04-18 12:25:50 PM  
Re-enact it over Pyongyang, and no one will complain.


/ no one that matters, that is
 
2013-04-18 12:26:14 PM  
Naga, please!
 
2013-04-18 12:26:32 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: If its 12pm in New York, and 9am in Los Angeles, what time is it in Dayton?

1957

/Old joke from my days working at NCR, which was headquartered in Dayton
//Bocks Car, the B-29 that destroyed Nagasaki, is exhibited at the USAF Museum in Dayton.


================

Come on, Dayton isn't all bad.......Larry Flynt started Hustler in Dayton.  I think most of the girls doing gonzo porn in LA are from Dayton.

/Ohio needs its own tag
 
2013-04-18 12:28:26 PM  
Good.  I'm not sure what the educational value of seeing planes drop fake bombs is.  Hell, even if it was to commemorate dropping cupcakes over the Panama Canal, I'm still not sure what the educational value would be.
 
2013-04-18 12:28:58 PM  
Look Mommy! A little old plane in the sky.
 
2013-04-18 12:30:20 PM  
What da plobrem?

2.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com
 
2013-04-18 12:31:43 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Damn the PC brigade.

I suppose they're going to protest re-enactments of shower time at Auschwitz too.


Because the US is just as bad as Nazi Germany.
 
2013-04-18 12:31:47 PM  

scottydoesntknow: If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?


Why the BUFF?
 
2013-04-18 12:31:52 PM  
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 12:32:08 PM  
I had to listen to a preachy public television biography of Japanese-American politician Patsy Mink while I was in a waiting room a few weeks ago. Luckily I had with me a memoir of the strategic bombing campaign against Japan as an antidote to all the whining about horrible white men.

I vote to nuke Dayton.
 
2013-04-18 12:32:48 PM  
I saw a "Tora Tora Tora" performance at a local show.  It was amazing.
Still remember the old-timer in a wheelchair near me.
They did a recitation over the PA, the old guy was gripping his armrests in anger and crying.
Damned near made me cry.

I'm not okay with the Hiroshima thing though.
Unless it's done over Pyongyang as said earlier.
 
2013-04-18 12:33:36 PM  
I'm not normally a sensitive ninny, but I think we need to be done with things blowing up for a while. Not forever, but let's at least get to the end of the month with no newsworthy asplosions.
 
2013-04-18 12:34:03 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Damn the PC brigade.

I suppose they're going to protest re-enactments of shower time at Auschwitz too.


Well, if you ask the Japanese, they were heroes who never did anything wrong during WWII, and were victims of the evil Allied Powers.

No, this is not sarcasm. This is actually a thing in Japan, and it's actually a thing today. Japanese Textbooks in school paint the Rape of Nanking as a False Flag or Chinese Propaganda. Atrocities like the Bataan Death March and the Burma Railroad aren't even mentioned. Unit 731 is denied.

The Japanese shame is that they lost WWII, not that they committed inhuman atrocities.

bopis: Because the US is just as bad as Nazi Germany.


Depending on who you ask (idiots), we're only one step away from opening the concentration camps.
 
2013-04-18 12:35:38 PM  
Aside from the nuke itself it would be a very boring exercise. A single plane and a few observers at a very high altitude. You wouldn't see anything from the ground.
 
2013-04-18 12:35:54 PM  

hardinparamedic: Depending on who you ask (idiots), we're only one step away from opening the concentration camps.


We've done it before.  See "Japanese Internment Camps."
 
2013-04-18 12:36:03 PM  

id10ts: I saw a "Tora Tora Tora" performance at a local show.  It was amazing.
Still remember the old-timer in a wheelchair near me.
They did a recitation over the PA, the old guy was gripping his armrests in anger and crying.
Damned near made me cry.

I'm not okay with the Hiroshima thing though.
Unless it's done over Pyongyang as said earlier.


I've been going to the Dayton Air Show every year for darn near 25 years.  They always do the "Tora Tora Tora" performance, and it is the highlight of the show.

/too soon?
//csb
 
2013-04-18 12:36:31 PM  

jshine: Aside from the nuke itself it would be a very boring exercise. A single plane and a few observers at a very high altitude. You wouldn't see anything from the ground.


Not for long, anyway.
 
2013-04-18 12:37:12 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: We've done it before.  See "Japanese Internment Camps."


You're not that stupid. Japanese internment was shameful and horrific, but they were not slave labor and extermination camps. There was no systematic and mass genocide of the Nisei and their relatives in the United States.

There is no comparison there.
 
2013-04-18 12:38:27 PM  

namegoeshere: I'm not normally a sensitive ninny, but I think we need to be done with things blowing up for a while. Not forever, but let's at least get to the end of the month with no newsworthy asplosions.


Why do you hate America?
 
2013-04-18 12:38:41 PM  
Boom Shakalaka!!
 
2013-04-18 12:40:04 PM  
images.defensetech.org

RIP FIFI
 
2013-04-18 12:41:15 PM  

scottydoesntknow: If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?


Heh... niiiiice.
 
2013-04-18 12:41:47 PM  
My brother took his son to a local air show here, just in time to see a plane auger into the ground - they then left quickly.
 
2013-04-18 12:42:04 PM  

scottydoesntknow: If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?


Nope.  Just the Enola Gay.  Other 2 camera planes got separated/lost... that's why the only footage we have is a quick clip that they shot out of the EG shaky-cam style.

One of my former bosses had a brother who flew on the Nagasaki bombing.  Said when it came time they were told to put on their goggles and cover their eyes and look away.  Right after detonation they all took off their goggles.  He looked down and could see his bones glowing through his boot.

I always thought he was pulling my leg on that, but I ran into an identical account from one of the camera men who worked on the Nevada tests.
 
2013-04-18 12:42:09 PM  

bopis: I_Am_Weasel: Damn the PC brigade.

I suppose they're going to protest re-enactments of shower time at Auschwitz too.

Because the US is just as bad as Nazi Germany.


The re-enactment of the killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians has no place any more so then re-enacting what happened to Jewish civilians in Germany.
 
2013-04-18 12:42:18 PM  
To those of you advocating the nuking of Dayton, fark off. As much as I'd like to see large swaths of Ohio wiped off the map, the USAF Museum is too valuable to risk in any sort of operation.

/last time I was there I spent three whole days in the museum - before the addition of Hangar 3
 
2013-04-18 12:42:36 PM  

Diogenes: Dammit!  I thought it said Daytona.

/post fail


I would hope they'd use a fully-functional warhead at maximum yield if they meant Daytona.

/Daytonite
//Wipe us out please.
 
2013-04-18 12:43:05 PM  
i.imgur.com
You can get some good cosplay ideas from this book.
 
2013-04-18 12:43:14 PM  
Good of them to keep in The Great Wall of Fire simulated napalm strike, though.

Napalm, napalm, sticks like glue,
burns old women and children, too.

Children in the schoolyard,
tryin' to learn,
drop my napalm,
watch 'em burn.

Women in the hospital
givin' birth,
hope my napalm
gets there first.

See those kids
over by the lake?
Drop my napalm,
watch 'em bake!

'Cause napalm sticks to kids!
'Cause napalm sticks to kids!

/Not proud of that.
//Blame military school.
 
2013-04-18 12:43:16 PM  

ZAZ: I had to listen to a preachy public television biography of Japanese-American politician Patsy Mink while I was in a waiting room a few weeks ago. Luckily I had with me a memoir of the strategic bombing campaign against Japan as an antidote to all the whining about horrible white men.

I vote to nuke Texas.


revrendjim: I heartily endorse nuking Dallas. All of Texas, really.


FTFBY
 
2013-04-18 12:44:19 PM  

bopis: I_Am_Weasel: Damn the PC brigade.

I suppose they're going to protest re-enactments of shower time at Auschwitz too.

Because the US is just as bad as Nazi Germany.


Hush, you; you'll give away our plans to retake the Sudetenland!
 
2013-04-18 12:45:24 PM  
Where their names ching chong?
 
2013-04-18 12:46:04 PM  
Ok, firstly, why does it start with the dateline "CINCINNATI -" when the Dayton International Airport is almost 75 miles NORTH of Cinci?

Not sure I'll be able to make it up there this year for the air show... WPAFB is close by so there is always a nice turn out of military aircraft...
 
2013-04-18 12:46:06 PM  

Evil Mackerel: ZAZ: I had to listen to a preachy public television biography of Japanese-American politician Patsy Mink while I was in a waiting room a few weeks ago. Luckily I had with me a memoir of the strategic bombing campaign against Japan as an antidote to all the whining about horrible white men.

I vote to nuke Texas.

revrendjim: I heartily endorse nuking Dallas. All of Texas, really.

FTFBY


Most of our nukes are already in Texas (northeast of amarillo). Google 'Pantex'.
 
2013-04-18 12:46:10 PM  

Tsar_Bomba1: scottydoesntknow: If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?

Nope.  Just the Enola Gay.  Other 2 camera planes got separated/lost... that's why the only footage we have is a quick clip that they shot out of the EG shaky-cam style.

One of my former bosses had a brother who flew on the Nagasaki bombing.  Said when it came time they were told to put on their goggles and cover their eyes and look away.  Right after detonation they all took off their goggles.  He looked down and could see his bones glowing through his boot.

I always thought he was pulling my leg on that, but I ran into an identical account from one of the camera men who worked on the Nevada tests.


Did he die of cancer?
 
2013-04-18 12:47:44 PM  

scottydoesntknow: If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?


Nope.

There's only one flying B-29 left (Fifi). If you've ever seen the Nova special there was an outside chance at salvaging and restoring Kee Bird, but the yokels that undertook the project really screwed the pooch. All that's left is a burned-out hulk at the bottom of a Greenland lake.
 
2013-04-18 12:48:37 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: bopis: I_Am_Weasel: Damn the PC brigade.

I suppose they're going to protest re-enactments of shower time at Auschwitz too.

Because the US is just as bad as Nazi Germany.

The re-enactment of the killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians has no place any more so then re-enacting what happened to Jewish civilians in Germany.


What's the cutoff for civilian deaths? What do you think of civil war reenactors?

/Honestly curious.
 
2013-04-18 12:51:12 PM  

namegoeshere: Tsar_Bomba1: scottydoesntknow: If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?

Nope.  Just the Enola Gay.  Other 2 camera planes got separated/lost... that's why the only footage we have is a quick clip that they shot out of the EG shaky-cam style.

One of my former bosses had a brother who flew on the Nagasaki bombing.  Said when it came time they were told to put on their goggles and cover their eyes and look away.  Right after detonation they all took off their goggles.  He looked down and could see his bones glowing through his boot.

I always thought he was pulling my leg on that, but I ran into an identical account from one of the camera men who worked on the Nevada tests.

Did he die of cancer?


========================

The old dude who lives across the street did occupation duty in Japan after the war.   He's got a picture of himself standing in the middle of Nagasaki in 1946, less than a year after the bomb was drop.   I asked him if he was worried about the radiation, he replied, "They never told us about any radiation."
 
2013-04-18 12:51:40 PM  
How Gay is that?
 
2013-04-18 12:52:50 PM  

UNC_Samurai: To those of you advocating the nuking of Dayton, fark off. As much as I'd like to see large swaths of Ohio wiped off the map, the USAF Museum is too valuable to risk in any sort of operation.

/last time I was there I spent three whole days in the museum - before the addition of Hangar 3


They used to have the harley davidson out where you could touch it, even sit on it.
/back in the good old days.
 
2013-04-18 12:53:34 PM  
We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.
 
2013-04-18 12:55:36 PM  

dv-ous:  What do you think of civil war reenactors?


Mostly, they are too fat and have all their teeth - two things not commonplace among Civil War regiments.

/27th NC
 
2013-04-18 12:56:04 PM  
FTFA: A University of Dayton associate professor who was born in a U.S. wartime detention camp for Japanese-Americans said besides the "re-enactment" being offensive, the show's contention that the bomb that killed so many Japanese ended up saving more lives is disputable - some historians say Japan would have surrendered without the atomic bomb attacks.

But would have been "total surrender"?  And compared to the firebombing of Tokyo, Nagasaki and Hiroshima had relatively few casualties.
 
2013-04-18 12:56:19 PM  

Ivo Shandor: [i.imgur.com image 340x502]
You can get some good cosplay ideas from this book.


Great book.  Also have his other one.  Dark sun?
 
2013-04-18 12:56:44 PM  

dv-ous: I_Am_Weasel: bopis: I_Am_Weasel: Damn the PC brigade.

I suppose they're going to protest re-enactments of shower time at Auschwitz too.

Because the US is just as bad as Nazi Germany.

The re-enactment of the killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians has no place any more so then re-enacting what happened to Jewish civilians in Germany.

What's the cutoff for civilian deaths? What do you think of civil war reenactors?

/Honestly curious.


Its not civilian deaths, its just a knee-jerk reaction due to the fact that it was a nuclear explosion. If one flew a few hundred b29's overheard - if that was even possible anymore (to recreate, say, the firebombing of Tokyo), there would be less gnashing of teeth, even though there were more civilian deaths.

Nukes were used for 50 years to keep the US and soviets afraid of each other - too afraid to attack. That fear is still with us and shows up like this.
 
2013-04-18 12:59:37 PM  

UNC_Samurai: scottydoesntknow: If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?

Nope.

There's only one flying B-29 left (Fifi). If you've ever seen the Nova special there was an outside chance at salvaging and restoring Kee Bird, but the yokels that undertook the project really screwed the pooch. All that's left is a burned-out hulk at the bottom of a Greenland lake.


Whatever happened to the restoration of "Doc"?
 
2013-04-18 01:02:25 PM  

LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.


IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.
 
2013-04-18 01:02:41 PM  

OldManDownDRoad: dv-ous:  What do you think of civil war reenactors?

Mostly, they are too fat and have all their teeth - two things not commonplace among Civil War regiments.

/27th NC


The ones around here (mostly the ones I've met at Bentonville and Fort Branch) are all right, but there are a few that enjoy glorifying the war as some sort of adventure, at the expense of the important history lessons (namely the 700,000+ casualties, the severe impact of the war on communities where over half of the men between ages 12 and 50 were dead, etc.). You also run into some that are members of the SCV; those are the ones that scare me, as they're neo-Confederates that think honoring their heritage is the first step towards liberating their state from the Union.
 
2013-04-18 01:04:32 PM  

fat boy: UNC_Samurai: scottydoesntknow: If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?

Nope.

There's only one flying B-29 left (Fifi). If you've ever seen the Nova special there was an outside chance at salvaging and restoring Kee Bird, but the yokels that undertook the project really screwed the pooch. All that's left is a burned-out hulk at the bottom of a Greenland lake.

Whatever happened to the restoration of "Doc"?


Last I heard, they were on hiatus because of the lack of money. Wikipedia says they've started work again, but I haven't heard anything else about it.
 
2013-04-18 01:04:33 PM  
"Air show officials said the re-enactment was meant to highlight a historic event that helped end the war and save lives that would have been lost if the war had been prolonged."

Oh, I see.  Killing hundreds of thousands of civilians was helpful.  Well that makes it okay then.
 
2013-04-18 01:04:40 PM  

fat boy: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.


They were given many opportunities, even before Hiroshima - when loss was already inevitable.
 
2013-04-18 01:05:06 PM  
Love going to airshows, especially to see the vintage stuff but this is pretty stupid. Pyro displays at airshows don't serve any purpose other than entertaining the mouthbreather crowd, "Guh-hyuck hyuck, fire made it good...", wish they'd stop doing them. To the airshow organizers, spend the money on bringing in more awesome aircraft!
 
2013-04-18 01:05:39 PM  
CSB: I went to an air show in Ida Grove, Iowa in 1991; they re-enacted the taking of Iwo Jima and the raising of the flag on Mt. Suribachi. Lots of Zeroes and Betties and Corsairs flying overhead, small arms fire, squibs going off. At the end of the show they detonated something that made a big bang and a credible-looking mushroom cloud, and the MC gave a short speech about how nuclear bombs ended the war but at a grave human cost. I'd say it was a pretty classy way to deal with a multifaceted issue.
 
2013-04-18 01:06:13 PM  
Also on hold are the planned Salute to the Bombing of Dresden, and Pearl Harbor 2.0...
 
2013-04-18 01:06:42 PM  

darth_badger: [images.defensetech.org image 329x344]

RIP FIFI


'dafuq did I just read?
 
2013-04-18 01:08:14 PM  
Stomped all over Enola Gay Pride Day! Bastards!
 
2013-04-18 01:11:16 PM  

jshine: They were given many opportunities, even before Hiroshima - when loss was already inevitable.


Unfortunately, that was the Asian Face-culture at work.
 
2013-04-18 01:11:47 PM  

fat boy: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.


Yes, we gave them many chances to surrender, but Nagasaki would've also been hit pretty much no matter what. Hiroshima was to show the unbelievable superweapon we created that could literally destroy an entire city with one drop. Nagasaki was to show that it wasn't just a one-time weapon and that we did have more and were not willing to accept anything but unconditional surrender.
 
2013-04-18 01:12:19 PM  
The war would have been over by October at the latest. Between the blockade of Japan by the US Navy and the Bombings, they really didn't have much time. Besides, various factions wanted to surrender and not surrender at various times.

The bombs were meant to show the world America's new power.
 
2013-04-18 01:13:38 PM  

HortusMatris: "Air show officials said the re-enactment was meant to highlight a historic event that helped end the war and save lives that would have been lost if the war had been prolonged."

Oh, I see.  Killing hundreds of thousands of civilians was helpful.  Well that makes it okay then.


Large numbers of deaths were inevitable, whether by nuke or regular bombs or an invasion. Just look at the battles fought up to that point as examples and extrapolate what would have been required to pacify the home islands. Hell, Japanese casualties on iwo jima were something like 99% because they preferred suicide to surrender. On Okinawa (iirc), the soldiers marched their civilians off cliffs first.

Extrapolate that behavior to the whole country; its chilling.
 
2013-04-18 01:14:48 PM  
A University of Dayton associate professor who was born in a U.S. wartime detention camp for Japanese-Americans said besides the "re-enactment" being offensive, the show's contention that the bomb that killed so many Japanese ended up saving more lives is disputable - some historians say Japan would have surrendered without the atomic bomb attacks.

Japanese historians, no doubt. After all, in their own eyes, the Japanese were an advanced, peace-loving nation who brought, technology, peace, and civilization to the poor backwards countries they occupied. Korean comfort women were all volunteer prostitutes, the rape on Nanking is a lie, they had the upmost respect for and took very good care of Allied POWs. The attacks on Honk Kong, Singapore, and Pearl Harbor were justified responses to Western aggression. They just can't understand why the ignorant, ungrateful Chinese and Koreans loathe them to this day.

As for Japan surrendering without the A-bomb being dropped, I'm not an historian, but I do have an opinion: considering the very large death toll in taking Okinawa where civilians committed suicide en masse and soldiers fought until they died, rather than surrender. Considering also that the Japanese refused to surrender even after Hiroshima received the first Atomic bomb, but that it, in fact, two A-bombs before they did, I very much doubt any revisionist historian's claims that lives were not saved by the A-bombs because Japan would have surrendered even without them.

I would very much like to know who these historians are and what they base their revisionist point of view on.

//we can never know what historical events would have happened had the past unfolded differently.
 
2013-04-18 01:18:10 PM  

HortusMatris: "Air show officials said the re-enactment was meant to highlight a historic event that helped end the war and save lives that would have been lost if the war had been prolonged."

Oh, I see.  Killing hundreds of thousands of civilians was helpful.  Well that makes it okay then.


It was more like tens of thousands (unless you add both attacks). But the government experts estimated that an invasion of Japan would cost 200,000 to 500,000 more American lives and 3 to 5 million more Japanese lives, including civilians. So in the long run, and in a really sad way, yes, it was helpful. For both sides.
 
2013-04-18 01:19:19 PM  

namegoeshere: Unfortunately, that was the Asian Face-culture at work.


Bukakke?
 
2013-04-18 01:22:23 PM  

capt.hollister: A University of Dayton associate professor who was born in a U.S. wartime detention camp for Japanese-Americans said besides the "re-enactment" being offensive, the show's contention that the bomb that killed so many Japanese ended up saving more lives is disputable - some historians say Japan would have surrendered without the atomic bomb attacks.

Japanese historians, no doubt. After all, in their own eyes, the Japanese were an advanced, peace-loving nation who brought, technology, peace, and civilization to the poor backwards countries they occupied. Korean comfort women were all volunteer prostitutes, the rape on Nanking is a lie, they had the upmost respect for and took very good care of Allied POWs. The attacks on Honk Kong, Singapore, and Pearl Harbor were justified responses to Western aggression. They just can't understand why the ignorant, ungrateful Chinese and Koreans loathe them to this day.

As for Japan surrendering without the A-bomb being dropped, I'm not an historian, but I do have an opinion: considering the very large death toll in taking Okinawa where civilians committed suicide en masse and soldiers fought until they died, rather than surrender. Considering also that the Japanese refused to surrender even after Hiroshima received the first Atomic bomb, but that it, in fact, two A-bombs before they did, I very much doubt any revisionist historian's claims that lives were not saved by the A-bombs because Japan would have surrendered even without them.

I would very much like to know who these historians are and what they base their revisionist point of view on.

//we can never know what historical events would have happened had the past unfolded differently.


I spend some time in the Philippines, had some long conversations with those who were around during the Japanese occupation, they still have nothing positive to say about the Japanese. farking barbarians
 
2013-04-18 01:23:49 PM  

JonnyBGoode: HortusMatris: "Air show officials said the re-enactment was meant to highlight a historic event that helped end the war and save lives that would have been lost if the war had been prolonged."

Oh, I see.  Killing hundreds of thousands of civilians was helpful.  Well that makes it okay then.

It was more like tens of thousands (unless you add both attacks). But the government experts estimated that an invasion of Japan would cost 200,000 to 500,000 more American lives and 3 to 5 million more Japanese lives, including civilians. So in the long run, and in a really sad way, yes, it was helpful. For both sides.


Also more people died from bombing of Tokyo than died from explosion of the Atomic Bomb at Hiroshima. (Of course radiation sickness eventually killed many more)  One night of bombing raids killed 100,000 in Tokyo yet that did not trouble the powers in charge in Japan.
 
2013-04-18 01:26:03 PM  
media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com

Boston shame.
 
2013-04-18 01:27:58 PM  

darth_badger: [media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com image 550x821]

Boston shame.


Wrong thread ... whoops.
 
2013-04-18 01:29:51 PM  

darth_badger: darth_badger: [media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com image 550x821]

Boston shame.

Wrong thread ... whoops.


I guess you could say he nuked her carpet
 
2013-04-18 01:30:33 PM  

darth_badger: darth_badger: [media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com image 550x821]

Boston shame.

Wrong thread ... whoops.


Meh, that sign is a good metaphor for most fark threads.
 
2013-04-18 01:31:48 PM  

trotsky: The war would have been over by October at the latest. Between the blockade of Japan by the US Navy and the Bombings, they really didn't have much time. Besides, various factions wanted to surrender and not surrender at various times.

The bombs were meant to show the world America's new power.


That's a very Western point of view. It is what we would expect a Western country with Western values on the worth of individual lives to do. In what could be glimpsed of the Japanese psyche before and during WWII, there is no reason to believe that the government and people of Japan would have surrendered before hundreds of thousands, if not millions, had either committed suicide or starved to death.  In that respect, it is probably true that the A-bombs and hastened the end of the war and saved many more lives than they took.

Of course, all of this is speculation. We have no accurate way of knowing what would have happened until a real Pr. Farnsworth invents an actual "what if" machine.
 
2013-04-18 01:32:24 PM  
Will they have someone speaking the last words of the Mayor of Hiroshima?
"What the fark was that?!``
 
2013-04-18 01:32:38 PM  

Tsar_Bomba1: He looked down and could see his bones glowing through his boot.


WTF??????????????????????????????????????????
 
2013-04-18 01:37:11 PM  

jshine: fat boy: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.

They were given many opportunities, even before Hiroshima - when loss was already inevitable.


I also believe notes were dropped over their city days before the bomb dropped warning them to leave.
 
2013-04-18 01:38:59 PM  

scottydoesntknow: darth_badger: darth_badger: [media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com image 550x821]

Boston shame.

Wrong thread ... whoops.

I guess you could say he nuked her carpet


He ate the bomb.
 
2013-04-18 01:40:06 PM  

namegoeshere: Tsar_Bomba1: scottydoesntknow: If anything that sounds really, really boring.

Wouldn't it just be a lone B-52 and two B-29s flying overhead?

Nope.  Just the Enola Gay.  Other 2 camera planes got separated/lost... that's why the only footage we have is a quick clip that they shot out of the EG shaky-cam style.

One of my former bosses had a brother who flew on the Nagasaki bombing.  Said when it came time they were told to put on their goggles and cover their eyes and look away.  Right after detonation they all took off their goggles.  He looked down and could see his bones glowing through his boot.

I always thought he was pulling my leg on that, but I ran into an identical account from one of the camera men who worked on the Nevada tests.

Did he die of cancer?


No.  Some kids drove up along side him and fired a shotgun into his face.  He lived for quite a few years afterwards, but I believe complications from that caught up with him.

From what little research I've done as to whether or not we should have dropped the bombs...

The topography of Japan made it that there was only one area where we could do a ground invasion.  We knew it and the Japanese knew it. One way in and one way out.  Predictions were over a million US casualties in just the first year of the land invasion.  The Emperor had already instructed the populace to fight to the last man, woman, and child.  And they were training for it. If memory served the original first target was Tokyo... but due to an American ambassador who had spent some time there he got them to change it due to the cultural significance of the city.

If you're interested in more try Googling "Operation Downfall".
 
2013-04-18 01:40:11 PM  

JonnyBGoode: HortusMatris: "Air show officials said the re-enactment was meant to highlight a historic event that helped end the war and save lives that would have been lost if the war had been prolonged."

Oh, I see.  Killing hundreds of thousands of civilians was helpful.  Well that makes it okay then.

It was more like tens of thousands (unless you add both attacks). But the government experts estimated that an invasion of Japan would cost 200,000 to 500,000 more American lives and 3 to 5 million more Japanese lives, including civilians. So in the long run, and in a really sad way, yes, it was helpful. For both sides.


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
 
2013-04-18 01:43:16 PM  

HortusMatris: JonnyBGoode: HortusMatris: "Air show officials said the re-enactment was meant to highlight a historic event that helped end the war and save lives that would have been lost if the war had been prolonged."

Oh, I see.  Killing hundreds of thousands of civilians was helpful.  Well that makes it okay then.

It was more like tens of thousands (unless you add both attacks). But the government experts estimated that an invasion of Japan would cost 200,000 to 500,000 more American lives and 3 to 5 million more Japanese lives, including civilians. So in the long run, and in a really sad way, yes, it was helpful. For both sides.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.


Indeed, which is probably why we didn't enter WWII voluntarily. Google 'Pearl Harbor'.
 
2013-04-18 01:47:52 PM  

HortusMatris: JonnyBGoode: HortusMatris: "Air show officials said the re-enactment was meant to highlight a historic event that helped end the war and save lives that would have been lost if the war had been prolonged."

Oh, I see.  Killing hundreds of thousands of civilians was helpful.  Well that makes it okay then.

It was more like tens of thousands (unless you add both attacks). But the government experts estimated that an invasion of Japan would cost 200,000 to 500,000 more American lives and 3 to 5 million more Japanese lives, including civilians. So in the long run, and in a really sad way, yes, it was helpful. For both sides.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.


"No sensible decision can be made any longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but the world as it will be"

I can quote Isaac Asimov too!
 
2013-04-18 01:48:18 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Doc


They just back into a hanger and have restarted the restoration http://www.b-29doc.com/about.php


Kermit Weeks also has one project with minor wing corrosion and several more "complete" airframes that have been in crates for decades.
 
2013-04-18 01:48:29 PM  
"We are a city of peace," she said.

I've been to Dayton. Don't lie.
 
2013-04-18 01:50:28 PM  

LeroyBourne: jshine: fat boy: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.

They were given many opportunities, even before Hiroshima - when loss was already inevitable.

I also believe notes were dropped over their city days before the bomb dropped warning them to leave.


I got outbid on one of these several years ago on eBay...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasa ki #Leaflets
 
2013-04-18 01:52:00 PM  
farm8.staticflickr.com


/Why couldn't it have been the Hindenburg? There's a shirt for that.
 
2013-04-18 01:59:29 PM  

scottydoesntknow: HortusMatris: JonnyBGoode: HortusMatris: "Air show officials said the re-enactment was meant to highlight a historic event that helped end the war and save lives that would have been lost if the war had been prolonged."

Oh, I see.  Killing hundreds of thousands of civilians was helpful.  Well that makes it okay then.

It was more like tens of thousands (unless you add both attacks). But the government experts estimated that an invasion of Japan would cost 200,000 to 500,000 more American lives and 3 to 5 million more Japanese lives, including civilians. So in the long run, and in a really sad way, yes, it was helpful. For both sides.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

"No sensible decision can be made any longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but the world as it will be"

I can quote Isaac Asimov too!


"It is change, continuing change, inevitable change, that is the dominant factor in society today. No sensible decision can be made any longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but the world as it will be.... This, in turn, means that our statesmen, our businessmen, our everyman must take on a science fictional way of thinking. "

Good for you, but I don't think Asimov was excusing the use of violence with that statement.
 
2013-04-18 02:07:00 PM  
I always found it somewhat ironic that there is a huge peace movement here in Dayton.

I mean, Wright Patterson is next door. That place is no joke. One of the more important Air Force Bases in the country.
 
2013-04-18 02:07:13 PM  

Thudfark: /Why couldn't it have been the Hindenburg? There's a shirt for that.


Damn, that chick on the left is pug-f'ugly.
 
2013-04-18 02:11:12 PM  
I love John Hersey's book. I Just happen to be reading it again.
 
2013-04-18 02:12:41 PM  

scottydoesntknow: HortusMatris: JonnyBGoode: HortusMatris: "Air show officials said the re-enactment was meant to highlight a historic event that helped end the war and save lives that would have been lost if the war had been prolonged."

Oh, I see.  Killing hundreds of thousands of civilians was helpful.  Well that makes it okay then.

It was more like tens of thousands (unless you add both attacks). But the government experts estimated that an invasion of Japan would cost 200,000 to 500,000 more American lives and 3 to 5 million more Japanese lives, including civilians. So in the long run, and in a really sad way, yes, it was helpful. For both sides.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

"No sensible decision can be made any longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but the world as it will be"

I can quote Isaac Asimov too!


And let's not presume to know what psychohistory (were it a real science) would have predicted to be the ripple effects of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
 
2013-04-18 02:18:21 PM  

Dynascape: I always found it somewhat ironic that there is a huge peace movement here in Dayton.

I mean, Wright Patterson is next door. That place is no joke. One of the more important Air Force Bases in the country.


===========

Wright Patterson is the biggest airbase the US maintains in the lower 48.  Without Wright-Patterson, Dayton would dry up and blow away.
 
2013-04-18 02:18:25 PM  
Yes Sir, drop that F*****, twice.


Movie line and all.
 
2013-04-18 02:20:17 PM  
Choosing to use atomic weapons against Japan was the best course of action.  Yes, dropping Atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed a lot of civilians but they were both valuable militarily and destroying them was militarily justifiable.  Even after Nagasaki, Japanese military leaders didn't want to surrender and tried to stage a coup against the emperor.
 
2013-04-18 02:22:15 PM  
My grandfather was on a 60 day furlough back home from Eurpoe, with orders to the Pacific theater to ready for the invasion, and his brother, a Marine war dog handler, was still dealing with snipers on Okinawa when the atomic bombs went off and ended the war.  They both wound up serving occupation duty, my grandfather in Japan and his brother in China.  To the end of their lives, they both truly believed that if it hadn't been for those bombs, they would have had to invade mainland Japan.

Also, I think one of Truman's advisers pointed out that if, after spending 2 billion dollars and years of research, we didn't drop our superbomb, and even a few thousand more airmen and sailors died before the surrender, due to the bombing campaign and Kamikaze attacks on our ships, if the American public and Congress found out about it, he would be impeached, while the public called for his head with torches and pitchforks.
 
2013-04-18 02:23:31 PM  
You can catch Fifi flying around Dallas pretty often.  Hell of a sight to see passing over 635 on final.

Addison is great for aviation buffs.  Not exactly your average everyday GA traffic.

www.netairspace.com
 
2013-04-18 02:32:45 PM  

stevarooni: FTFA: A University of Dayton associate professor who was born in a U.S. wartime detention camp for Japanese-Americans said besides the "re-enactment" being offensive, the show's contention that the bomb that killed so many Japanese ended up saving more lives is disputable - some historians say Japan would have surrendered without the atomic bomb attacks.

But would have been "total surrender"?  And compared to the firebombing of Tokyo, Nagasaki and Hiroshima had relatively few casualties.


This theory seems to be gaining steam over the past few years. It's sloppy and boils down to historic revisionism, no better than those who try to change the narrative of the Civil War.
 
2013-04-18 02:33:13 PM  
Didn't the Confederate Commemorative Air Force used to do a mushroom-cloud routine before political correctness sapped their vital bodily fluids?
 
2013-04-18 02:41:01 PM  

Tsar_Bomba1: LeroyBourne: jshine: fat boy: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.

They were given many opportunities, even before Hiroshima - when loss was already inevitable.

I also believe notes were dropped over their city days before the bomb dropped warning them to leave.

I got outbid on one of these several years ago on eBay...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasa ki #Leaflets


Oh wow, cool.  How much does something like that go for?
 
2013-04-18 02:41:47 PM  
I think they may have a problem getting enough Japanese to co-operate.
 
2013-04-18 02:42:48 PM  

Fissile: Dynascape: I always found it somewhat ironic that there is a huge peace movement here in Dayton.

I mean, Wright Patterson is next door. That place is no joke. One of the more important Air Force Bases in the country.

===========

Wright Patterson is the biggest airbase the US maintains in the lower 48.  Without Wright-Patterson, Dayton would dry up and blow away.


Thankfully, I dont think that will ever happen.

The sheer amount of stuff they have there would take decades of de-contamination. I work over what used to be McCook Field and they still dig up random stuff from where the airfield used to be.
 
2013-04-18 02:47:39 PM  
What's most surprising is how this thread's military-fellators have yet to somehow use the word "godspeed".
 
2013-04-18 02:47:59 PM  

LeroyBourne: Tsar_Bomba1: LeroyBourne: jshine: fat boy: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.

They were given many opportunities, even before Hiroshima - when loss was already inevitable.

I also believe notes were dropped over their city days before the bomb dropped warning them to leave.

I got outbid on one of these several years ago on eBay...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasa ki #Leaflets

Oh wow, cool.  How much does something like that go for?


It got ridiculously high.  Pretty sure it was over $250.  That was a long time ago...
 
2013-04-18 02:49:40 PM  

LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.


I was living in Tokyo when 9/11 happened and you can bet your bottom dollar there was gloating. They won't forget Hiroshima any time soon.
 
2013-04-18 02:50:59 PM  

LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.


I had a similar experience many years ago, when I was a college freshman. Two of my fellow students in an English course were Japanese, and when the subject of the bomb came up, they were VERY passionate and VERY accusatory.

I was much less PC then than I am today. After listening to them for a few minutes, I mentioned Pearl. I don't remember exactly what I said, but the phrase "expected a nickel's worth of change, and got a quarter" was in there.
 
2013-04-18 02:54:55 PM  

Gonz: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

I had a similar experience many years ago, when I was a college freshman. Two of my fellow students in an English course were Japanese, and when the subject of the bomb came up, they were VERY passionate and VERY accusatory.

I was much less PC then than I am today. After listening to them for a few minutes, I mentioned Pearl. I don't remember exactly what I said, but the phrase "expected a nickel's worth of change, and got a quarter" was in there.


I'd be curious to know how korean and chinese exchange students might respond to japanese complaints.  I expect it would be along the lines of "too bad they didn't kill more."
 
2013-04-18 02:57:49 PM  

REO-Weedwagon: What's most surprising is how this thread's military-fellators have yet to somehow use the word "godspeed".


IIRC, that term was used to wish John Glenn 'good luck' on America's first manned orbital launch. I'm not sure how it would apply in this context.
 
2013-04-18 02:58:05 PM  
Hey, make it entertaining.  Why not re-enact this?
downloads.thedaily.com
/fun fact: Kubrick had the opportunity to re-enact this ending for the ending of 2001: A Space Odyssey, but decided not to
 
2013-04-18 03:01:32 PM  

Gergesa: Gonz: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

I had a similar experience many years ago, when I was a college freshman. Two of my fellow students in an English course were Japanese, and when the subject of the bomb came up, they were VERY passionate and VERY accusatory.

I was much less PC then than I am today. After listening to them for a few minutes, I mentioned Pearl. I don't remember exactly what I said, but the phrase "expected a nickel's worth of change, and got a quarter" was in there.

I'd be curious to know how korean and chinese exchange students might respond to japanese complaints.  I expect it would be along the lines of "too bad they didn't kill more."


My wife is Chinese - from the same city as Unit 731 - but has no anti-Japanese sentiment. In fact we've got Japanese friends. The Chinese gov't beats the nationalism drum, and that stirs up resentment within China, but it seems like less of a problem for Chinese people raised outside that environment.
 
2013-04-18 03:10:07 PM  

scottydoesntknow: fat boy: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.

Yes, we gave them many chances to surrender, but Nagasaki would've also been hit pretty much no matter what. Hiroshima was to show the unbelievable superweapon we created that could literally destroy an entire city with one drop. Nagasaki was to show that it wasn't just a one-time weapon and that we did have more and were not willing to accept anything but unconditional surrender.


Often, when someone drops a super weapon on you, it's tempting to accuse them of being desperate and only having the one weapon of that magnitude.  Japan provided evidence that when you start a fight by kicking the biggest kid in the yard directly in the balls in front of his girlfriend, you can't end the fight pinned on the ground after a haymaker by saying, "I bet you can't hit me again, just let me up and I'll get you."
 
2013-04-18 03:19:38 PM  

Gonz: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

I had a similar experience many years ago, when I was a college freshman. Two of my fellow students in an English course were Japanese, and when the subject of the bomb came up, they were VERY passionate and VERY accusatory.

I was much less PC then than I am today. After listening to them for a few minutes, I mentioned Pearl. I don't remember exactly what I said, but the phrase "expected a nickel's worth of change, and got a quarter" was in there.


I bet that was heated conversation.  A sneak attack vs a planned bombing when the people had a chance to get the hell out of there.  Hmmmm.
My uncle told us kids one thing, we can ask about the war, but never ask about pearl harbor.  I'm guessing he saw a lot of his buddies burn, not to mention the clean up afterwards.
 
2013-04-18 03:36:05 PM  

HortusMatris: Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.


Violence is almost never the answer.

Sometimes, rarely, it's the only appropriate answer.
 
2013-04-18 03:42:11 PM  
t1.gstatic.com
Didn't think it was that terrible an idea...
 
2013-04-18 03:56:39 PM  
Dang it.  Guess I'll have to watch the Tora Tora Tora display again.

/ What's with all the Dayton hate?
 
2013-04-18 04:05:55 PM  
fat boy:
I spend some time in the Philippines, had some long conversations with those who were around during the Japanese occupation, they still have nothing positive to say about the Japanese. farking barbarians

And I have relatives who lived through the occupation in the Philippines and a grandfather who fought against the Japanese (also in the PI).  And they all say the Japanese rule was dreadful.  Although they all forced to speak a little bit of Japanese... so, I guess there's that.

I've never heard anyone say anything nice about being under Japanese rule (unless they were collaborators... and if they were, they're not saying much about that period).  I have no idea why any folks (Filipinos or any other Asians) would say otherwise.
 
2013-04-18 04:16:57 PM  
This thread reminds me of a book I read in the late 70s. In this hack sci-fi novel, the nuclear test at Trinity worked fine, but some arcane rule of physics was discovered that would prevent the bomb from exploding if ti was dropped from a plane.  So the whole plot dealt with how to simulate a nuclear explosion at Hiroshima.

My google-fu is so far failing me -- anyone have any idea what the title of this book is?
 
2013-04-18 04:40:14 PM  

parkke0108: Dang it.  Guess I'll have to watch the Tora Tora Tora display again.

/ What's with all the Dayton hate?


I don't know if it's still there... but back in the 1980s someone owned one of the Japanese Zero replicas from "Tora Tora Tora!".  It was parked at the Jones Airport near Jenks, OK.  Pretty weird to be outside and see a Zero flying by complete with a fake torpedo underneath.
 
2013-04-18 04:44:14 PM  

LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.


You could have also mentioned Unit 731, the mistreatment and execution of Allied POWs, Korean "comfort" girls, the rape of Nanjing, the mass killing of upwards of 10 million Asian civilians, the use of chemical weapons, cannibalism of both POWs and civilians and the use of forced labor on a scale equal to the Nazis. But I'm sure she missed that day in history class.
 
2013-04-18 04:48:32 PM  

Diogenes: Dammit!  I thought it said Daytona.

/post fail


What's the difference?
 
2013-04-18 04:52:33 PM  
I was on the Indianapolis. We had this little problem with the ship being torpedoed and sunk, and some sharks. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.
 
2013-04-18 04:55:13 PM  

Diogenes: Dammit!  I thought it said Daytona.

/post fail


heh.  no!!!  i say post win!!!  that'd be awesome if they did the re-create over the Daytona 500.  mid-race.
 
2013-04-18 04:56:43 PM  

MBooda: I was on the Indianapolis. We had this little problem with the ship being torpedoed and sunk, and some sharks. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.


i was working in twin falls, idaho in the late 80's...doing a cat scan on this old guy...he started talking...i shut up and listened.  he started to tear up, then so did i...he re-counted his time in the water.

/hats off to all you guys.
 
2013-04-18 04:57:17 PM  
Here's an idea for all of the butthurt protestors: maybe Japan shouldn't have started a war they couldn't finish. Imperial Japan sealed it's own fate with the fatal miscalculation of Pearl Harbor.

/that goes for the rest of the world, too
 
2013-04-18 04:59:00 PM  
Good lord is there anything that won't set you moon-bats into bed wetting mode?
 
2013-04-18 05:02:18 PM  
New airshow attraction announced:

www.upl.co
 
2013-04-18 05:26:18 PM  

scottydoesntknow: fat boy: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.

Yes, we gave them many chances to surrender, but Nagasaki would've also been hit pretty much no matter what. Hiroshima was to show the unbelievable superweapon we created that could literally destroy an entire city with one drop. Nagasaki was to show that it wasn't just a one-time weapon and that we did have more and were not willing to accept anything but unconditional surrender.


Ex wife is Japanese.  Her point of of view (and I guess what they are taught in their version of history class) was that Japan was only days away from surrendering when we dropped the 1st bomb on them and we knew it. And then we didn't accept their surrender until after the second bomb "because we wanted to test the weapon"

It was a sore subject for her because of all the innocent civilians we killed. I brought up the fact that Japan killed an occasional innocent Korean and Chinese civilian and she got all pissy. Apparenty they don't talk about Nanking there.

Also went and saw Pearl Harbor with her. After it was done, I asked her what she thought. "It was like a comedy" she says. WTF, I ask her.
She says because it wasn't realistic. She had a problem with the Japanese generals planning their attack in a garden (they wouldn't have a secret meeting outside!) and that a shot of Tokyo had a couple of women in kimonos. (Those are party dresses! They wouldn't  wear those in a war!) I tried to explain people still had parties, war or not, but she wasn't having it. Out of everything in the movie, that is what she picked to have a problem with.

She also liked to biatch about how "America tries to be the world police". I said "Well of course. Someone has to do it. Might as well be us. You rather it be Germany or China?
 
2013-04-18 05:47:16 PM  

MythDragon: Ex wife is Japanese.  Her point of of view (and I guess what they are taught in their version of history class) was that Japan was only days away from surrendering when we dropped the 1st bomb on them and we knew it. And then we didn't accept their surrender until after the second bomb "because we wanted to test the weapon"

It was a sore subject for her because of all the innocent civilians we killed. I brought up the fact that Japan killed an occasional innocent Korean and Chinese civilian and she got all pissy. Apparenty they don't talk about Nanking there.

Also went and saw Pearl Harbor with her. After it was done, I asked her what she thought. "It was like a comedy" she says. WTF, I ask her.
She says because it wasn't realistic. She had a problem with the Japanese generals planning their attack in a garden (they wouldn't have a secret meeting outside!) and that a shot of Tokyo had a couple of women in kimonos. (Those are party dresses! They wouldn't  wear those in a war!) I tried to explain people still had parties, war or not, but she wasn't having it. Out of everything in the movie, that is what she picked to have a problem with.

She also liked to biatch about how "America tries to be the world police". I said "Well of course. Someone has to do it. Might as well be us. You rather it be Germany or China?


You said Ex-Wife, right? How did you live with such naivety and stupidity.
 
2013-04-18 06:09:39 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

upload.wikimedia.org

After reading these books (the first is particularly good) I'm neither proud nor ashamed we dropped the bombs, but I'm glad we did and it ended the war.
 
2013-04-18 06:16:48 PM  

MythDragon: Also went and saw Pearl Harbor

(the movie)

My condolences.
 
2013-04-18 06:38:33 PM  

Tsar_Bomba1: If memory served the original first target was Tokyo... but due to an American ambassador who had spent some time there he got them to change it due to the cultural significance of the city.


Kyoto, not Tokyo. We'd already destroyed Tokyo with firebombing anyway.
 
2013-04-18 06:42:30 PM  

Feral_and_Preposterous: Good of them to keep in The Great Wall of Fire simulated napalm strike, though.

Napalm, napalm, sticks like glue,
burns old women and children, too.

Children in the schoolyard,
tryin' to learn,
drop my napalm,
watch 'em burn.

Women in the hospital
givin' birth,
hope my napalm
gets there first.

See those kids
over by the lake?
Drop my napalm,
watch 'em bake!

'Cause napalm sticks to kids!
'Cause napalm sticks to kids!

/Not proud of that.
//Blame military school.



We shoot the sick, the young, the lame, We do our best to maim, Because the kills all count the same, Napalm sticks to kids.
Flying low across the trees, Pilots doing what they please, Dropping frags on refugees,
Napalm sticks to kids.
Goods in the open, making hay, But I can hear the gunships say, "There'll be no Chieu Hoi today, "
Napalm sticks to kids.
See those farmers over there, Watch me get them with a pair, Blood and guts just everywhere,
Napalm sticks to kids.
I've only seen it happen twice, But both times it was mighty nice, Shooting peasants planting rice, Napalm sticks to kids.
Napalm, son, is lots of fun, Dropped in a bomb or shot from a gun, It gets the gooks when on the run, Napalm sticks to kids.
Drop some napalm on a farm, It won't do them any harm, Just burn off their legs and arms,
Napalm sticks to kids.
CIA with guns for hire, Montagnards around a fire, Napalm makes the fire go higher,
Napalm sticks to kids.
I've been told it's not so neat, To catch gooks burning in the street, But burning flesh, it smells to sweet,
Napalm sticks to kids.
Children sucking on a mother's tit, Wounded gooks down in a pit, Dow Chemical doesn't give a shiat, Napalm sticks to kids.
Bombardiers don't care a bit, Just as long as the pieces fit, When you stuff the bodies in a pit,
Napalm sticks to kids.
Eighteen kids in a No Fire Zone, Rooks under arms and going home, Last in line goes home alone,
Napalm sticks to kids.
 Chuck in a sampan, sitting in the stern, They don't think their boats will burn, Those damn gooks will never learn,
Napalm sticks to kids.
Cobras flying in the sun, Killing gooks is lots of fun, Get one pregnant and it's two for one,
Napalm sticks to kids.
Shoot civilians where they sit, Take some pictures as you split, All your life you'll remember it,
Napalm sticks to kids.
NVA are all hard core, Flechettes never are a bore, Throw those PSYOPS out the door,
Napalm sticks to kids.
Gather kids as you fly over town, By throwing candy on the ground, Then grease 'em when they gather 'round,
Napalm sticks to kids.
 
2013-04-18 06:47:59 PM  

MythDragon: scottydoesntknow: fat boy: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

IIRC, they were given the chance to surrender after the first.

Yes, we gave them many chances to surrender, but Nagasaki would've also been hit pretty much no matter what. Hiroshima was to show the unbelievable superweapon we created that could literally destroy an entire city with one drop. Nagasaki was to show that it wasn't just a one-time weapon and that we did have more and were not willing to accept anything but unconditional surrender.

Ex wife is Japanese.  Her point of of view (and I guess what they are taught in their version of history class) was that Japan was only days away from surrendering when we dropped the 1st bomb on them and we knew it. And then we didn't accept their surrender until after the second bomb "because we wanted to test the weapon"

It was a sore subject for her because of all the innocent civilians we killed. I brought up the fact that Japan killed an occasional innocent Korean and Chinese civilian and she got all pissy. Apparenty they don't talk about Nanking there.

Also went and saw Pearl Harbor with her. After it was done, I asked her what she thought. "It was like a comedy" she says. WTF, I ask her.
She says because it wasn't realistic. She had a problem with the Japanese generals planning their attack in a garden (they wouldn't have a secret meeting outside!) and that a shot of Tokyo had a couple of women in kimonos. (Those are party dresses! They wouldn't  wear those in a war!) I tried ...


Well she was right about Pearl Harbor. I also thought it was a comedy, because it damn sure wasn't an action movie.

It's funny how history is told in different countries. One of my college friends was born in Oklahoma, but moved to China when he was like 6 (Beijing for a majority of it). He said the history classes made Japan look like pure evil. You could tell there was animosity in the instructor's voice as he taught about it.
 
2013-04-18 07:01:54 PM  

LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.


Should have just sent her a link to the wikipedia page. The things that the Japanese did during the war rivaled anything done by the Nazi's they just get talked about less.
 
2013-04-18 07:21:00 PM  

IC Stars: This thread reminds me of a book I read in the late 70s. In this hack sci-fi novel, the nuclear test at Trinity worked fine, but some arcane rule of physics was discovered that would prevent the bomb from exploding if ti was dropped from a plane.  So the whole plot dealt with how to simulate a nuclear explosion at Hiroshima.

My google-fu is so far failing me -- anyone have any idea what the title of this book is?


The Jesus Factor by Edwin Corley.  Loved it.
 
2013-04-18 08:25:18 PM  
Well, if they want to re-enact Hiroshima then we get to re-enact the battle of Pearl Harbor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcSMaNlcDPs

Fair's fair.
 
2013-04-18 09:15:44 PM  

AtlanticCoast63: IC Stars: This thread reminds me of a book I read in the late 70s. In this hack sci-fi novel, the nuclear test at Trinity worked fine, but some arcane rule of physics was discovered that would prevent the bomb from exploding if ti was dropped from a plane.  So the whole plot dealt with how to simulate a nuclear explosion at Hiroshima.

My google-fu is so far failing me -- anyone have any idea what the title of this book is?

The Jesus Factor by Edwin Corley.  Loved it.


Thanks -- the power of Fark is remarkable.
 
2013-04-18 10:55:43 PM  
My dad worked with a veteran whose ship was sunk in the Pacific. Japs picked him up, and stored him, and hundreds of others like cargo and headed back to Japan to put them working for Mitsubishi I believe. He told my dad that every evening the japs would pull several prisoners up to the deck to be shot, beheaded etc..infront of other prisoners while the ship officers sat and had tea. My dad didn't even know this guy was in the war until they had a survivor parade of that ship's sailors. It was necessary to bomb that generation of savage nips. Torturing bastards. And I bet 30 comfort women that if horus porus in this thread was facing going to Japan for a ground invasion, than he would have thanked his lucky stars when hearing of the bombings. Better them than us dipsh't
 
2013-04-18 11:35:21 PM  

Tsar_Bomba1: parkke0108: Dang it.  Guess I'll have to watch the Tora Tora Tora display again.

/ What's with all the Dayton hate?

I don't know if it's still there... but back in the 1980s someone owned one of the Japanese Zero replicas from "Tora Tora Tora!".  It was parked at the Jones Airport near Jenks, OK.  Pretty weird to be outside and see a Zero flying by complete with a fake torpedo underneath.


If it had a "fake torpedo", that would have been a Nakajima B5N ("Kate") torpedo plane replica (whatever plane Hollyweird dressed up to look like a Kate).
 
2013-04-18 11:37:01 PM  

solitary: LeroyBourne: We had a Japanese foreign exchange student during my hs years. One day, in our ethics class the WW2 subject came up and she was visibly very angry over it. She kept saying "YOU" guys didn't have to drop 2 bombs, and she kept say "YOU guys". Everyone in the class was very supportive that people in her family were effected by it, but no one in this class had anything to do with dropping those bombs. Hell, my uncle was at pearl harbor when the shiat went down. I guess I should have thrown that in her face.

I was living in Tokyo when 9/11 happened and you can bet your bottom dollar there was gloating. They won't forget Hiroshima any time soon.


Good.
 
2013-04-19 12:30:47 AM  

ObeliskToucher: Tsar_Bomba1: parkke0108: Dang it.  Guess I'll have to watch the Tora Tora Tora display again.

/ What's with all the Dayton hate?

I don't know if it's still there... but back in the 1980s someone owned one of the Japanese Zero replicas from "Tora Tora Tora!".  It was parked at the Jones Airport near Jenks, OK.  Pretty weird to be outside and see a Zero flying by complete with a fake torpedo underneath.

If it had a "fake torpedo", that would have been a Nakajima B5N ("Kate") torpedo plane replica (whatever plane Hollyweird dressed up to look like a Kate).


North American T-6s, and they were a lot more than just "dressed up" . The resemblance between the movie's replicas and the real thing is striking. They did a very good job of reproducing a plane of which no survivors are known to exist.
 
2013-04-19 05:33:55 AM  
Who the Fark cares? Go eat some sushi anf go cry in the corner.
 
2013-04-19 08:09:17 AM  
Kinda CSB:  In the late 90s I was assigned to Shaw AFB in SC, and was getting gas at the BX when I heard something that didn't sound at all right - looked up to see the CAF 'Tora, Tora, Tora" flight making a pass down the runway.  Turned out they were on their way to an airshow and the CINC 9th Air Force (hq's at Shaw) knew people who made the arrangements.  Imagine just for a second, watching six WWII Japanese planes fly past a ramp loaded with F-16s.....lined up just the way they were at Hickam Field at Pearl Harbor...

/and for a hell of a story about the fun you can have with airshows and live ammo:

ecx.images-amazon.com

//you'll thank me for it
 
2013-04-19 10:17:21 AM  

capt.hollister: ObeliskToucher: Tsar_Bomba1: parkke0108: Dang it.  Guess I'll have to watch the Tora Tora Tora display again.

/ What's with all the Dayton hate?

I don't know if it's still there... but back in the 1980s someone owned one of the Japanese Zero replicas from "Tora Tora Tora!".  It was parked at the Jones Airport near Jenks, OK.  Pretty weird to be outside and see a Zero flying by complete with a fake torpedo underneath.

If it had a "fake torpedo", that would have been a Nakajima B5N ("Kate") torpedo plane replica (whatever plane Hollyweird dressed up to look like a Kate).

North American T-6s, and they were a lot more than just "dressed up" . The resemblance between the movie's replicas and the real thing is striking. They did a very good job of reproducing a plane of which no survivors are known to exist.


A regular T-6 (in this case, an SNJ)
www.warbirdregistry.org

A B5N Kate - no complete model survived the war intact
www.wwiivehicles.com

A T-6 converted to look like a Kate
www.warbirdregistry.org

A Vultee BT-13 Valiant
avionswwii.free.fr

Several BT-13s were converted to Kates for Tora! Tora! Tora!
This particular CAF model is a BT-13 with several T-6 parts engineered to replicate a B5N
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
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