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(NBC News)   With up to 15 people dead and dozens injured, Texas explosion aftermath described as "like a war zone". America hasn't seen scenes like this since...well, since Monday actually, but it's been an unusual week   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 165
    More: Followup, Texas, human leg  
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5266 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2013 at 11:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-18 11:07:28 AM  
Has someone snapped up "TexasExplosionConspiracy.com" yet? ;)
 
2013-04-18 11:25:33 AM  
Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 11:28:06 AM  

vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.


In a lot of towns the refinery or whatever IS the center of town.  It's why there is a town there.
 
2013-04-18 11:29:10 AM  
War...war never changes...except when it's fertilizer.
 
2013-04-18 11:44:09 AM  
The fertilizer plant that exploded Wednesday night in West, Texas, reported to the Environmental Protection Agency and local public safety officials that it presented no risk of fire or explosion, documents show.

West Fertilizer Co. reported having as much as 54,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia on hand in an emergency planning report required of facilities that use toxic or hazardous chemicals.

But the report, reviewed Wednesday night by The Dallas Morning News, stated "no" under fire or explosive risks. The worst possible scenario, the report said, would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that would kill or injure no one.

The second worst possibility projected was a leak from a broken hose used to transfer the product, again causing no injuries.


Somebody made a boo boo....or out and out lied.
I'm sure the plant operators will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Buhahahaha. Yeah right.
 
2013-04-18 11:56:23 AM  

vpb: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

In a lot of towns the refinery or whatever IS the center of town.  It's why there is a town there.


Not from what I've seen. Typically the industry that supports the town is not dead center in the town. Usually because industry is dirty and, no pun intended, you don't shiat where you eat.
 
2013-04-18 12:00:50 PM  
Actually I imagine the sheer force of a fertilizer plant explosion is orders of magnitudes worse than a pressure-cooker bomb.
 
2013-04-18 12:03:33 PM  
See this, norks? Hell can't hold our sockhops.
 
2013-04-18 12:04:47 PM  

vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.


I would guess some years ago the plant was farther way (so to speak) then the development encroached it. The land was probably cheaper around the plant so to save a few bucks, people took a gamble on building near the plant
 
2013-04-18 12:04:53 PM  
Quit calling every bit of debris-strewn ground a "war zone," you nuts.
 
2013-04-18 12:04:55 PM  
Things blow up bigger in Texas!
 
2013-04-18 12:06:40 PM  
Pepcon laughs at your puny little explosion...




www.damninteresting.net

/boom clicky the photo goes the linky
 
2013-04-18 12:06:43 PM  
This was a bad week to finish up the first season of Homeland. "Oh what's on the news? Crowds of civilians being blown up. Let's watch some Netflix. Oh, it's more civilians being blown up... Can we just watch Girls instead?"
 
2013-04-18 12:06:49 PM  
Little known fact - almost 20% of the 9/11/2001 victims were hillbillies trying to take video of the buildings on fire.
 
2013-04-18 12:06:55 PM  

vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.


It's Texas. They're stupid there.
 
2013-04-18 12:07:29 PM  
Seriously, you guys are having a rough week down there. My heart felt wishes to all those affected...

On another note, you guys should be angry at the media who once again deliver countless false statements then correct themselves everytime something bad happens. They get a huge ratings boost then a few hours later, "oops, our bad. We were wrong." Who needs soap operas when you have CNN?
 
2013-04-18 12:08:11 PM  
FTA: In a safety report on file with the Environmental Protection Agency, the West Fertilizer Co. said that there was no risk of fire or explosion from the ammonia stored near a residential neighborhood and a school, the Dallas Morning News reported. The main hazard was an accidental release of the gas, the report said.

You would think the EPA would know whether that report was total bullshiat just based on the chemicals involved. It's like saying there is no risk of fire from a natural gas pipeline.
 
2013-04-18 12:08:24 PM  

ChipNASA: /boom clicky the photo goes the linky


Kid Rock?
 
2013-04-18 12:09:15 PM  

Stoj: Little known fact - almost 20% of the 9/11/2001 victims were hillbillies trying to take video of the buildings on fire.


Say what you will about New Yorkers as a people, but they had the good sense to run.
 
2013-04-18 12:09:59 PM  

Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.


Says the person from Florida living on the coast.
 
2013-04-18 12:10:10 PM  
So this was 27 tons of fertilizer. The texas city 1947 ship explosion was 2,300 tons of fertilizer.
 
2013-04-18 12:11:21 PM  
Meh, this week is now the new norm.
 
2013-04-18 12:12:06 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Stoj: Little known fact - almost 20% of the 9/11/2001 victims were hillbillies trying to take video of the buildings on fire.

Say what you will about New Yorkers as a people, but they had the good sense to run.


==================

I'm an eyewitness to 9-11.  Watched the entire thing.........from the Jersey side of the river.
 
2013-04-18 12:12:37 PM  
1947 Texas City Disaster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Txcitydisasterparkinglot.jpg
 
2013-04-18 12:12:51 PM  

bdub77: vpb: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

In a lot of towns the refinery or whatever IS the center of town.  It's why there is a town there.

Not from what I've seen. Typically the industry that supports the town is not dead center in the town. Usually because industry is dirty and, no pun intended, you don't shiat where you eat.


It is a town of 2,700 though..... very small towns like that, I don't believe (unfortunately) the city planning was all that great, especially if this town and plant goes back 60-70 years or more.... people just didn't "plan" things that way back then.
 
2013-04-18 12:12:53 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

I would guess some years ago the plant was farther way (so to speak) then the development encroached it. The land was probably cheaper around the plant so to save a few bucks, people took a gamble on building near the plant



Pretty much.  A lot of people live relatively close to the refineries by the gulf.  Not 100 yards close, but across a highway more or less, and those facilities are hundreds of times the size.  I'm sure its cheap, but I wouldn't want to live there...
 
2013-04-18 12:13:08 PM  
Looked like a war zone.

Sounded like a freight train.

Felt like an earthquake.

Smelled like burnt popcorn.

And tasted like chicken.
 
2013-04-18 12:13:18 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: FTA: In a safety report on file with the Environmental Protection Agency, the West Fertilizer Co. said that there was no risk of fire or explosion from the ammonia stored near a residential neighborhood and a school, the Dallas Morning News reported. The main hazard was an accidental release of the gas, the report said.

You would think the EPA would know whether that report was total bullshiat just based on the chemicals involved. It's like saying there is no risk of fire from a natural gas pipeline.


It's the Federal Government. They're known for being incompetent. Remember after 9/11 when the head of the EPA said there was no danger breathing the air down at Ground Zero. Years later, a lot of the people who breathed that air are dead.
 
2013-04-18 12:14:21 PM  
banter.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com

FALSE FLAG
 
2013-04-18 12:14:30 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: This was a bad week to finish up the first season of Homeland. "Oh what's on the news? Crowds of civilians being blown up. Let's watch some Netflix. Oh, it's more civilians being blown up... Can we just watch Girls instead?"


Even there you're not safe as you'll have to watch them blow a crowd of civilians.
 
2013-04-18 12:14:59 PM  
And the nuts just keep rolling! Someone called in a bomb threat to an Elementary School in Phoenix. Police have since given the all clear but is wrong with some people? http://www.azfamily.com/news/Bomb-threat-at-Longview-Elementary-spark s -evacuation-203603791.html
 
2013-04-18 12:15:23 PM  
To give you an idea of just how big this explosion was: it registered onthe Richter scale.  granted it was only a 2.2, but the USGS' monitoring devices actually recorded it as an earthquake.

also, strangely enough, the blast occurred almost 66 years to the day after worst industrial accident in US history-also a fertilizer explosion, that occured in Texas city in 1947.  In that case it was a freighter, not a factory, but the same fertilizer went boom, which isn;t too suprising since the chemical make-up for "fertilizer" and "explosives" is damn nearly identical
 
2013-04-18 12:15:34 PM  

vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.



Yea, but the ammonium nitrate smell drowns out the Texas smell.
 
2013-04-18 12:15:54 PM  

vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.


It's not really a plant, it's a fertilizer distributor/co-op.  Every county from Winnipeg to Del Rio has one of them.  Newer ones (rebuilt since the railroad-centric days) will tend to be on the outskirts of whatever small town, but most of them are right in the middle.

Also, putting my guessing bet in, it won't turn out to be the big giant tank that was the issue.  Anhydrous is flammable in the right circumstance, but not known for it.  A shed or 40-foot-trailer load of granulated ammonium nitrate fertilizer?  Also something you'd find at a co-op in every mid-American small town and perfectly capable of that size of boom in a major enough fire.
 
2013-04-18 12:15:58 PM  
1947 was much more impressive.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-18 12:16:11 PM  

vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.


==============

Because making rules about not building schools next to ammunition factories is like socialism, it's not free-dumb.  So to sum up, MURICA!

BTW, you wanna bet this was a non-union factory, where the illegal Mexicans were being paid minimum wage and no benefits?
 
2013-04-18 12:16:43 PM  

dletter: bdub77: vpb: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

In a lot of towns the refinery or whatever IS the center of town.  It's why there is a town there.

Not from what I've seen. Typically the industry that supports the town is not dead center in the town. Usually because industry is dirty and, no pun intended, you don't shiat where you eat.

It is a town of 2,700 though..... very small towns like that, I don't believe (unfortunately) the city planning was all that great, especially if this town and plant goes back 60-70 years or more.... people just didn't "plan" things that way back then.


I'm not gonna say there aren't tons of exceptions like this one. But most of what I've seen in rural America, the plant is typically several miles away from the residential and town areas.

I would think a fertilizer plant in particular would be further away, not only from smell but because of the potential for something dangerous like this to occur.
 
2013-04-18 12:17:10 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: FTA: In a safety report on file with the Environmental Protection Agency, the West Fertilizer Co. said that there was no risk of fire or explosion from the ammonia stored near a residential neighborhood and a school, the Dallas Morning News reported. The main hazard was an accidental release of the gas, the report said.

You would think the EPA would know whether that report was total bullshiat just based on the chemicals involved. It's like saying there is no risk of fire from a natural gas pipeline.


My good buddies the Ben Franklin twins here say there ain't.  They say go buy your wife somethin' nice.
 
2013-04-18 12:17:30 PM  
Biting the troll-bait (or what should be bait)
The EPA does not file those safety reports, thank the gold old "we'll let you report on your own compliance and just assume you aren't making crap up" approach of people that hate the EPA for that "mistake"
 
2013-04-18 12:18:43 PM  
What caused the explosions, chemically?

I get the nitrates (oxygenator) in the fertilizer, but what was the accelerant (ie. fuel)?

/curious chemist
 
2013-04-18 12:19:19 PM  

rocinante721: I get the nitrates (oxygenator) in the fertilizer, but what was the accelerant (ie. fuel)?


Bootstraps.
 
2013-04-18 12:21:44 PM  

Arkanaut: Actually I imagine the sheer force of a fertilizer plant explosion is orders of magnitudes worse than a pressure-cooker bomb.


Yeah, dude...  The Geological Survey measured a 2.2 magnitude quake from the shockwave.  That's pretty goddam powerful!
 
2013-04-18 12:21:54 PM  

Walker: The fertilizer plant that exploded Wednesday night in West, Texas, reported to the Environmental Protection Agency and local public safety officials that it presented no risk of fire or explosion, documents show.

West Fertilizer Co. reported having as much as 54,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia on hand in an emergency planning report required of facilities that use toxic or hazardous chemicals.

But the report, reviewed Wednesday night by The Dallas Morning News, stated "no" under fire or explosive risks. The worst possible scenario, the report said, would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that would kill or injure no one.

The second worst possibility projected was a leak from a broken hose used to transfer the product, again causing no injuries.

Somebody made a boo boo....or out and out lied.
I'm sure the plant operators will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Buhahahaha. Yeah right.


Or.... it was sabotage. Anyone know if the plant owner(s) are Dem or Rep? Anyone know where Glen Beck is? What about George Bush?

Also, anyone know of any LINKS between this and the Boston Right Wing Outrage?

Hey, I'm just asking questions.....
 
2013-04-18 12:22:29 PM  

theenglish: Biting the troll-bait (or what should be bait)
The EPA does not file those safety reports, thank the gold old "we'll let you report on your own compliance and just assume you aren't making crap up" approach of people that hate the EPA for that "mistake"


It's simple. Defund the EPA, then when something bad happens say 'so you guys let the factories report on their own and only conduct random audits, why do we even need you guys, therefore let's completely defund the EPA.'

This is standard GOP practice. Why oh why did Benghazi happen? I'm sure it had nothing to do with Congress defunding the State Department.
 
2013-04-18 12:22:52 PM  
In other news, North Korea learns that you really don't need nukes to turn the United States into a war zone.
 
2013-04-18 12:22:55 PM  

vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.


It's  more common than than you think. When I lived in NORCO, La, the town was pretty much built around the Shell Refinery. Lots of fun when the Cat Cracker blew up. Luckily, most of the houses were built in the '20s, so damage was minor, except for two fatalities at the plant itself.
 
2013-04-18 12:23:56 PM  
Texas: A self correcting problem.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-18 12:25:58 PM  

vpb: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

In a lot of towns the refinery or whatever IS the center of town.  It's why there is a town there.


Yeah, nowadays, it might be built out of town, but back in the day, they didn't worry about such things, they just built wherever they found land, or the city grew around it. Kind of scary to think about. It's the same reason that I have an issue with airports being in the middle of the city, I'm waiting for the day a 737 lands in my back yard...
 
2013-04-18 12:26:25 PM  

theenglish: Biting the troll-bait (or what should be bait)
The EPA does not file those safety reports, thank the gold old "we'll let you report on your own compliance and just assume you aren't making crap up" approach of people that hate the EPA for that "mistake"


Yeah, unfortunately this is the case with a lot of government agencies (Federal, State, etc). They lack the manpower and funding and just let industries "police themselves".

Government: "You guys wouldn't lie to us right?"
Industry: "Who us? Noooooooooooooooooooo"
 
2013-04-18 12:27:31 PM  

beb004: And the nuts just keep rolling! Someone called in a bomb threat to an Elementary School in Phoenix. Police have since given the all clear but is wrong with some people? http://www.azfamily.com/news/Bomb-threat-at-Longview-Elementary-spark s -evacuation-203603791.html


Probably a kid who hadn't studied for today's test.
 
2013-04-18 12:28:42 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: This was a bad week to finish up the first season of Homeland. "Oh what's on the news? Crowds of civilians being blown up. Let's watch some Netflix. Oh, it's more civilians being blown up... Can we just watch Girls instead?"


Lena Dunham blown up there too.

/I'd still hit it
//like 4000 tons of fertilizer
 
2013-04-18 12:29:16 PM  

rocinante721: What caused the explosions, chemically?

I get the nitrates (oxygenator) in the fertilizer, but what was the accelerant (ie. fuel)?

/curious chemist


Isn't ammonium nitrate, even without another component present, a pretty explosive material?  A fire or even a smaller detonation could have easily set it off and produced...ridiculous results.  AN has an explosive velocity almost equal to TNT.
 
2013-04-18 12:32:20 PM  
I think it's time for some actual regulations, but, with previous evidence, any company that might not benefit from these regulations will probably lobby against it.

I can understand here in Mexico, do I like it? No, and I'm one of the few architects/civil engineers that try to uphold the law when it comes to construction and/or design, even if most of my buildings are residential, but how do you guys let these things happen in the US? It's supposed to be a more progressive country, more advanced (supposedly) when it comes to building regulations.
 
2013-04-18 12:32:58 PM  

bdub77: vpb: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

In a lot of towns the refinery or whatever IS the center of town.  It's why there is a town there.

Not from what I've seen. Typically the industry that supports the town is not dead center in the town. Usually because industry is dirty and, no pun intended, you don't shiat where you eat.


Every mill town in bc has the mill in the middle of town near the trains and highways. Or just on the outskirts of town. The coal mines are all out of town and gas and petroleum is usually in the middle of nowhere near the oil fields
 
2013-04-18 12:34:34 PM  
Just saw the video from the guy in the truck.  Holy crap.
 
2013-04-18 12:34:48 PM  

rocinante721: What caused the explosions, chemically?

I get the nitrates (oxygenator) in the fertilizer, but what was the accelerant (ie. fuel)?

/curious chemist


My WAG is: primarily the soot from the existing structure fires.  Uncontrolled fires really don't use much of their fuel efficiently.  Sooty smoke is quite combustible (re-burners... that's how you get over half of your heat in a modern wood stove).  Since the volunteers were already dousing it with water, that would make even a sootier fire.
 
2013-04-18 12:35:20 PM  

Thebloodpotato: Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

i live in texas...this place is pretty damn stupid.


Stupid as in "hold my beer" stupid? Or stupid "I know I can dance (while drunk)" stupid?.
 
2013-04-18 12:35:45 PM  
So the video dude.  He stopped to video it and told his daughter that the building would likely soon collapse and that they would see an explosion.  He just didn't expect it to be so larger.  Farking moron put his life and kid's in danger for a fireworks display.

Skip to 00:24 for this genius's comments.
 
2013-04-18 12:36:52 PM  

rocinante721: What caused the explosions, chemically?

I get the nitrates (oxygenator) in the fertilizer, but what was the accelerant (ie. fuel)?

/curious chemist


It seems it decomposes into oxygen when heated.  If the container storing it caught fire, pressure can rise until an explosion occurs.  It can also be induced to detonate by a nearby explosion, I imagine this causes a chain reaction in a large stockpile.  Nearby fire -> spreads to container -> decomposition to oxygen -> tightly packed burning material has small explosion -> sets off chain reaction that creates a detonation of all nearby material

/not a chemist
 
2013-04-18 12:39:30 PM  

wingnut396: So the video dude.  He stopped to video it and told his daughter that the building would likely soon collapse and that they would see an explosion.  He just didn't expect it to be so larger.  Farking moron put his life and kid's in danger for a fireworks display.

Skip to 00:24 for this genius's comments.


Pretty much. If you're alone, fine, go do your thang. Friend/relatives hopping along? Fark that noise, it ain't safe.
 
2013-04-18 12:42:58 PM  

Stoj: Little known fact - almost 20% of the 9/11/2001 victims were hillbillies trying to take video of the buildings on fire.


Read that in the voice of a certain "King of the Hill" character
 
2013-04-18 12:43:48 PM  
Are you saying people shouldn't build schools and apartment buildings
near  fireworks rocket fuel propane bottling fertilizer plants?
Take it up with the zoning board!
 
2013-04-18 12:45:21 PM  
Yeah, I didn't realize America was this 'splodey. Hopefully it's not a hot new trend.
 
2013-04-18 12:47:37 PM  

NutWrench: Quit calling every bit of debris-strewn ground a "war zone," you nuts.


Yeah, this. Ruined, obliterated, leveled, destroyed. Any one of those words would do, without co-opting the now-cliche "war zone" reference.
 
2013-04-18 12:47:51 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: FTA: In a safety report on file with the Environmental Protection Agency, the West Fertilizer Co. said that there was no risk of fire or explosion from the ammonia stored near a residential neighborhood and a school, the Dallas Morning News reported. The main hazard was an accidental release of the gas, the report said.

You would think the EPA would know whether that report was total bullshiat just based on the chemicals involved. It's like saying there is no risk of fire from a natural gas pipeline.


Well, that would be... wait, what? When we built our house next to the gas pipeline, Enbridge assured us that it was perfectly safe. In fact, when they up the transmission pressure to 3000PSI that makes it safer, since gas only leaks when it's moving more slowly, and gas isn't flammable at such high pressures.

/once heard something similar from an energy marketing exec
//couldn't tell if he was just evil, or stupid, or both
 
2013-04-18 12:48:29 PM  

ChipNASA: Pepcon laughs at your puny little explosion...

[www.damninteresting.net image 310x177]

/boom clicky the photo goes the linky


Texas City 1947 tells Pepcon, that's not an explosion, this is an explosion.

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.comnfpa.typepad.com
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-18 12:48:58 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: This was a bad week to finish up the first season of Homeland. "Oh what's on the news? Crowds of civilians being blown up. Let's watch some Netflix. Oh, it's more civilians being blown up... Can we just watch Girls instead?"


You just know that Kim Jong Un is sitting there in Best Korea having a temper tantrum and going "WAAAHHHHH! Pay attention to me!"
 
2013-04-18 12:49:30 PM  
The company should have had a coordination plan with local emergency services. No one should have been fighting that fire, they should have concentrated emergency service efforts on evacuation of nearby facilities.

For those interested, situations like this are regulated by 29 CFR Part 1910,  Process Safety Management of Highly Hazardous Chemicals; Explosives and Blasting Agents.

While OSHA does periodic audits and inspections of companies (by industry code), realize that they are seriously understaffed for the job and can only inspect a small percentage of plants per year.
 
2013-04-18 12:51:00 PM  

bdub77: dletter: bdub77: vpb: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

In a lot of towns the refinery or whatever IS the center of town.  It's why there is a town there.

Not from what I've seen. Typically the industry that supports the town is not dead center in the town. Usually because industry is dirty and, no pun intended, you don't shiat where you eat.

It is a town of 2,700 though..... very small towns like that, I don't believe (unfortunately) the city planning was all that great, especially if this town and plant goes back 60-70 years or more.... people just didn't "plan" things that way back then.

I'm not gonna say there aren't tons of exceptions like this one. But most of what I've seen in rural America, the plant is typically several miles away from the residential and town areas.

I would think a fertilizer plant in particular would be further away, not only from smell but because of the potential for something dangerous like this to occur.


I would think that one of the main reasons that you would want some distance would be the danger of an anhydrous ammonia leak, that could kill a lot of people in a short time.
 
2013-04-18 12:52:21 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: NutWrench: Quit calling every bit of debris-strewn ground a "war zone," you nuts.

Yeah, this. Ruined, obliterated, leveled, destroyed. Any one of those words would do, without co-opting the now-cliche "war zone" reference.


The town was decimated!
 
2013-04-18 12:52:28 PM  

Walker: The fertilizer plant that exploded Wednesday night in West, Texas, reported to the Environmental Protection Agency and local public safety officials that it presented no risk of fire or explosion, documents show.

West Fertilizer Co. reported having as much as 54,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia on hand in an emergency planning report required of facilities that use toxic or hazardous chemicals.

But the report, reviewed Wednesday night by The Dallas Morning News, stated "no" under fire or explosive risks. The worst possible scenario, the report said, would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that would kill or injure no one.

The second worst possibility projected was a leak from a broken hose used to transfer the product, again causing no injuries.

Somebody made a boo boo....or out and out lied.
I'm sure the plant operators will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Buhahahaha. Yeah right.


They probably will. Its the manager who gets to walk.
 
2013-04-18 12:54:10 PM  

spelletrader: The company should have had a coordination plan with local emergency services. No one should have been fighting that fire, they should have concentrated emergency service efforts on evacuation of nearby facilities.

For those interested, situations like this are regulated by 29 CFR Part 1910,  Process Safety Management of Highly Hazardous Chemicals; Explosives and Blasting Agents.

While OSHA does periodic audits and inspections of companies (by industry code), realize that they are seriously understaffed for the job and can only inspect a small percentage of plants per year.


I believe they did begin evacuating. While firefighters (who I have to guess are probably dead now, if they were close to the plant) were trying to put out the fire.
 
2013-04-18 12:55:39 PM  

priapic_abandon: Texas City 1947 tells Pepcon, that's not an explosion, this is an explosion.


upload.wikimedia.org

Halifax says, "eh"?
 
2013-04-18 12:56:04 PM  

Arkanaut: Actually I imagine the sheer force of a fertilizer plant explosion is orders of magnitudes worse than a pressure-cooker bomb.


Yeah, I'm going with the plant explosion probably makes the bomb thing look like a black cat.  Of course, I don't blame submitter for playing it up.  Greenlights are fun.
 
2013-04-18 12:56:08 PM  

priapic_abandon: ChipNASA: Pepcon laughs at your puny little explosion...

[www.damninteresting.net image 310x177]

/boom clicky the photo goes the linky

Texas City 1947 tells Pepcon, that's not an explosion, this is an explosion.

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 285x177][nfpa.typepad.com image 500x248]
[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x475]


Bhopal says Americans are fascinated by splody things.  Real industrial disaster can be a silent creeping cloud...
 
2013-04-18 12:56:22 PM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n85R3OXK3bs

Non-Texans just don't get us. We celebrate Independence Day any chance we get.
Here, hold my beer.
 
2013-04-18 12:57:00 PM  

wingnut396: So the video dude.  He stopped to video it and told his daughter that the building would likely soon collapse and that they would see an explosion.  He just didn't expect it to be so larger.  Farking moron put his life and kid's in danger for a fireworks display.

Skip to 00:24 for this genius's comments.


In fairness, the time between the explosion and the sound was between 1-2 seconds which I'm sure would be around a half a mile to a mile away. He probably thought he was a safe distance back.
 
2013-04-18 12:57:07 PM  

spelletrader: The company should have had a coordination plan with local emergency services. No one should have been fighting that fire, they should have concentrated emergency service efforts on evacuation of nearby facilities.

For those interested, situations like this are regulated by 29 CFR Part 1910,  Process Safety Management of Highly Hazardous Chemicals; Explosives and Blasting Agents.

While OSHA does periodic audits and inspections of companies (by industry code), realize that they are seriously understaffed for the job and can only inspect a small percentage of plants per year.


Given what is known thus far, that may be closer to the truth than any deliberate action.

/sf. Appalachian coal mines
 
2013-04-18 12:57:38 PM  

Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.


Really?  Your profile says Florida and you're playing that card?
 
2013-04-18 12:59:40 PM  

ole prophet: wingnut396: So the video dude.  He stopped to video it and told his daughter that the building would likely soon collapse and that they would see an explosion.  He just didn't expect it to be so larger.  Farking moron put his life and kid's in danger for a fireworks display.

Skip to 00:24 for this genius's comments.

In fairness, the time between the explosion and the sound was between 1-2 seconds which I'm sure would be around a half a mile to a mile away. He probably thought he was a safe distance back.


No, this was debated pretty well last night in the thread of the video.  From what it looks like, he was in the middle school parking lot, which is literally, just across some train tracks from the plant.
 
2013-04-18 01:01:30 PM  

priapic_abandon: ChipNASA: Pepcon laughs at your puny little explosion...

[www.damninteresting.net image 310x177]

/boom clicky the photo goes the linky

Texas City 1947 tells Pepcon, that's not an explosion, this is an explosion.

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 285x177][nfpa.typepad.com image 500x248]
[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x475]


Halifax's Explosion of December 1917 would like a word with you.
 
2013-04-18 01:02:21 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: I believe they did begin evacuating. While firefighters (who I have to guess are probably dead now, if they were close to the plant) were trying to put out the fire.


If the company had done the right thing those fire fighters would have been assisting in the evacuation instead of fighting the fire.

Fire fighters know to never fight a fire when explosive material is involved. They were not adequately informed of the danger and the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties.
 
2013-04-18 01:02:35 PM  

ole prophet: wingnut396: So the video dude.  He stopped to video it and told his daughter that the building would likely soon collapse and that they would see an explosion.  He just didn't expect it to be so larger.  Farking moron put his life and kid's in danger for a fireworks display.

Skip to 00:24 for this genius's comments.

In fairness, the time between the explosion and the sound was between 1-2 seconds which I'm sure would be around a half a mile to a mile away. He probably thought he was a safe distance back.


For your enjoyment
 
2013-04-18 01:04:27 PM  

CygnusDarius: I think it's time for some actual regulations, but, with previous evidence, any company that might not benefit from these regulations will probably lobby against it.

I can understand here in Mexico, do I like it? No, and I'm one of the few architects/civil engineers that try to uphold the law when it comes to construction and/or design, even if most of my buildings are residential, but how do you guys let these things happen in the US? It's supposed to be a more progressive country, more advanced (supposedly) when it comes to building regulations.


Hate to say it, but it probably wasn't advanced, progressive, white American people that built the plant.
 
2013-04-18 01:05:06 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: FTA: In a safety report on file with the Environmental Protection Agency, the West Fertilizer Co. said that there was no risk of fire or explosion from the ammonia stored near a residential neighborhood and a school, the Dallas Morning News reported. The main hazard was an accidental release of the gas, the report said.

You would think the EPA would know whether that report was total bullshiat just based on the chemicals involved. It's like saying there is no risk of fire from a natural gas pipeline.


The ammonia's relatively safe. The report filed with the EPA didn't take into account the first responder's mistakes. The fire crew that arrived hosed down an ammonia fire with water. Every trained firefighter knows that won't work. It will, in fact, make it worse. "Emergency responders should not mix water used for firefighting directly with anhydrous ammonia as this will result in warming of the product, causing the liquid to turn into a vapor cloud." What started as a bad situation, soon turned deadly due to simple human error. Someone on a small fire department, possibly a volunteer, misread the situation and escalated a fire into an explosion. Quite probably paying for their mistake with their life.
 
2013-04-18 01:06:52 PM  
I guess that when shiat happens in Texas, it happens with a bang!
 
2013-04-18 01:08:53 PM  

dletter: bdub77: vpb: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

In a lot of towns the refinery or whatever IS the center of town.  It's why there is a town there.

Not from what I've seen. Typically the industry that supports the town is not dead center in the town. Usually because industry is dirty and, no pun intended, you don't shiat where you eat.

It is a town of 2,700 though..... very small towns like that, I don't believe (unfortunately) the city planning was all that great, especially if this town and plant goes back 60-70 years or more.... people just didn't "plan" things that way back then.


This. People forget that the concept of "planning" a city before it's even built is a brand new thing. For example, compare cities that existed before the automobile versus those after the automobile. In the old cities, the streets are laid out to favor pedestrians and possibly horse-drawn carts -- not automobiles that convey people for long distances from home to market.

As for "why did they build housing so close to the plant?" In Texas, a city has to be chartered in order to create and implement zoning. To get chartered, a city needs to have more than 5,000 people. The population of West is about half that, so businesses can do build whatever they want wherever they want it. This explosion is another bad example of how Texas is "business friendly" to the detriment of its own people.
 
2013-04-18 01:10:21 PM  

CygnusDarius: Thebloodpotato: Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

i live in texas...this place is pretty damn stupid.

Stupid as in "hold my beer" stupid? Or stupid "I know I can dance (while drunk)" stupid?.


stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...i put boot in there because texans love boots and i am willing to give back a little
 
2013-04-18 01:10:39 PM  
img96.imageshack.us

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.
 
2013-04-18 01:11:02 PM  

spelletrader: Smelly Pirate Hooker: I believe they did begin evacuating. While firefighters (who I have to guess are probably dead now, if they were close to the plant) were trying to put out the fire.

If the company had done the right thing those fire fighters would have been assisting in the evacuation instead of fighting the fire.

Fire fighters know to never fight a fire when explosive material is involved. They were not adequately informed of the danger and the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties.


OK, thanks, caped crusader. I think it's a little early to be assigning fault, but whatever, you're on the internet, so I guess it's to be expected.

My understanding is, some of the firefighters were volunteers (not full-time FD). So that probably had something to do with it.

Small government for the win.
 
2013-04-18 01:14:10 PM  

sethen320: Walker: The fertilizer plant that exploded Wednesday night in West, Texas, reported to the Environmental Protection Agency and local public safety officials that it presented no risk of fire or explosion, documents show.

West Fertilizer Co. reported having as much as 54,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia on hand in an emergency planning report required of facilities that use toxic or hazardous chemicals.

But the report, reviewed Wednesday night by The Dallas Morning News, stated "no" under fire or explosive risks. The worst possible scenario, the report said, would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that would kill or injure no one.

The second worst possibility projected was a leak from a broken hose used to transfer the product, again causing no injuries.

Somebody made a boo boo....or out and out lied.
I'm sure the plant operators will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Buhahahaha. Yeah right.

They probably will. Its the manager who gets to walk.


Look, ever since it was revealed that BP's "emergency response plan" filed with the US government on how to handle an oil spill for one of their drilling rigs in the gulf of Mexico, included consulting with the world's foremost expert on Penguin ecology (who had been dead a few years when the plan was filed) nothing shocks me anymore
 
2013-04-18 01:19:32 PM  
http://www.dallasnews.com/photos/20130418-massive-fertilizer-plant-ex p losion-injures-dozens-in-west-near-waco.ece?ssimg=975128#ssTop974973

Fairly new pictures. Sorry, Dallas Morning News website is shiatty and page reloads with every picture. But there are thumbnails underneath so you can kinda preview before clicking.
 
2013-04-18 01:19:43 PM  

Thebloodpotato: CygnusDarius: Thebloodpotato: Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

i live in texas...this place is pretty damn stupid.

Stupid as in "hold my beer" stupid? Or stupid "I know I can dance (while drunk)" stupid?.

stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...i put boot in there because texans love boots and i am willing to give back a little


Your description sounds a lot like New York.
 
2013-04-18 01:21:56 PM  

Civil_War2_Time: [img96.imageshack.us image 750x500]

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.


Halifax:
aprox. 2000 killed and 9000 injured
estimated force 2.9 KT

Texas City:
aprox. 450 killed and 5000 injured
estimated force 2.7 to 3.2 KT

Please explain "large margin"?
 
2013-04-18 01:23:59 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: OK, thanks, caped crusader. I think it's a little early to be assigning fault, but whatever, you're on the internet, so I guess it's to be expected.

My understanding is, some of the firefighters were volunteers (not full-time FD). So that probably had something to do with it.

Small government for the win.


You're right. That should read "If they were not adequately informed of the danger the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties."
 
2013-04-18 01:26:42 PM  

Magorn: sethen320: Walker: The fertilizer plant that exploded Wednesday night in West, Texas, reported to the Environmental Protection Agency and local public safety officials that it presented no risk of fire or explosion, documents show.

West Fertilizer Co. reported having as much as 54,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia on hand in an emergency planning report required of facilities that use toxic or hazardous chemicals.

But the report, reviewed Wednesday night by The Dallas Morning News, stated "no" under fire or explosive risks. The worst possible scenario, the report said, would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that would kill or injure no one.

The second worst possibility projected was a leak from a broken hose used to transfer the product, again causing no injuries.

Somebody made a boo boo....or out and out lied.
I'm sure the plant operators will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Buhahahaha. Yeah right.

They probably will. Its the manager who gets to walk.

Look, ever since it was revealed that BP's "emergency response plan" filed with the US government on how to handle an oil spill for one of their drilling rigs in the gulf of Mexico, included consulting with the world's foremost expert on Penguin ecology (who had been dead a few years when the plan was filed) nothing shocks me anymore


BP has all kinds of problems.  Nothing they do surprises me.
 
2013-04-18 01:28:38 PM  

mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: [img96.imageshack.us image 750x500]

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.

Halifax:
aprox. 2000 killed and 9000 injured
estimated force 2.9 KT

Texas City:
aprox. 450 killed and 5000 injured
estimated force 2.7 to 3.2 KT

Please explain "large margin"?


Well kilotons are pretty much the big boy league unless you are playing with nukes.

If I had stupid amounts of money Id pay stupidly to get to blow up a test site with a Tsar bomba.
 
2013-04-18 01:31:57 PM  

sethen320: Thebloodpotato: CygnusDarius: Thebloodpotato: Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

i live in texas...this place is pretty damn stupid.

Stupid as in "hold my beer" stupid? Or stupid "I know I can dance (while drunk)" stupid?.

stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...i put boot in there because texans love boots and i am willing to give back a little

Your description sounds a lot like New York.


that place is pretty awful until you go deep below the subways...but i wasn't aware they liked boots in new york.
 
2013-04-18 01:32:34 PM  

Oldiron_79: If I had stupid amounts of money Id pay stupidly to get to blow up a test site with a Tsar bomba.


I'm pretty sure some Russian millionaires do this.
 
2013-04-18 01:39:08 PM  

mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: [img96.imageshack.us image 750x500]

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.

Halifax:
aprox. 2000 killed and 9000 injured
estimated force 2.9 KT

Texas City:
aprox. 450 killed and 5000 injured
estimated force 2.7 to 3.2 KT

Please explain "large margin"?


I'm just throwing shiat out there...like a five ton anchor 1/2 mile, and a two ton anchor 1.62 miles. Maybe me growing up 15 miles from the blast sight makes me wonder about the Halifax data.
 
2013-04-18 01:40:43 PM  

Thebloodpotato: sethen320: Thebloodpotato: CygnusDarius: Thebloodpotato: Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

i live in texas...this place is pretty damn stupid.

Stupid as in "hold my beer" stupid? Or stupid "I know I can dance (while drunk)" stupid?.

stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...i put boot in there because texans love boots and i am willing to give back a little

Your description sounds a lot like New York.

that place is pretty awful until you go deep below the subways...but i wasn't aware they liked boots in new york.


True true...I forgot about the boots.  To be fair though we don't all like boots.  I like living here but I hate boots, country music, trailer homes, and "muddin".  I guess I'm a fluke.  I'm also not out in the middle of nowhere though.
 
2013-04-18 01:42:16 PM  

vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.


Dude, it's organic. How can it be dangerous to live near a green business?
 
2013-04-18 01:46:38 PM  

Civil_War2_Time: mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: [img96.imageshack.us image 750x500]

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.

Halifax:
aprox. 2000 killed and 9000 injured
estimated force 2.9 KT

Texas City:
aprox. 450 killed and 5000 injured
estimated force 2.7 to 3.2 KT

Please explain "large margin"?

I'm just throwing shiat out there...like a five ton anchor 1/2 mile, and a two ton anchor 1.62 miles. Maybe me growing up 15 miles from the blast sight makes me wonder about the Halifax data.


I know. Because everything in Texas is bigger, better and more important. We get it.
 
2013-04-18 01:47:47 PM  

sethen320: Thebloodpotato: sethen320: Thebloodpotato: CygnusDarius: Thebloodpotato: Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

i live in texas...this place is pretty damn stupid.

Stupid as in "hold my beer" stupid? Or stupid "I know I can dance (while drunk)" stupid?.

stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...i put boot in there because texans love boots and i am willing to give back a little

Your description sounds a lot like New York.

that place is pretty awful until you go deep below the subways...but i wasn't aware they liked boots in new york.

True true...I forgot about the boots.  To be fair though we don't all like boots.  I like living here but I hate boots, country music, trailer homes, and "muddin".  I guess I'm a fluke.  I'm also not out in the middle of nowhere though.


im in the same "boot" as you are...i do know alot of people like me but they move to austin.
 
2013-04-18 01:48:16 PM  

Civil_War2_Time: mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: [img96.imageshack.us image 750x500]

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.

Halifax:
aprox. 2000 killed and 9000 injured
estimated force 2.9 KT

Texas City:
aprox. 450 killed and 5000 injured
estimated force 2.7 to 3.2 KT

Please explain "large margin"?

I'm just throwing shiat out there...like a five ton anchor 1/2 mile, and a two ton anchor 1.62 miles. Maybe me growing up 15 miles from the blast sight makes me wonder about the Halifax data.


According to the wiki, part of the Mont Blanc's anchor was found 2 miles from the site, and one of her guns landed 3.5 miles away.  It was a pretty big boom, too.
 
2013-04-18 01:51:20 PM  

CygnusDarius: Oldiron_79: If I had stupid amounts of money Id pay stupidly to get to blow up a test site with a Tsar bomba.

I'm pretty sure some Russian millionaires do this.


While stroking thier mini giraffes
 
2013-04-18 01:51:48 PM  
I blame poor zoning laws and weak eminent domain process for pushing the town to expand towards the cheaper land near the plant as opposed to leaving a buffer zone.
 
2013-04-18 01:55:26 PM  

Thebloodpotato: stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...


You just described Farkers to a T.
 
2013-04-18 01:55:51 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I blame poor zoning laws and weak eminent domain process for pushing the town to expand towards the cheaper land near the plant as opposed to leaving a buffer zone.


I lived in a village of 175 people, that was within a "town" that was probably itself not much more than 500-600 people (this is in Wisconsin, basically you have cities and villages within 6x6 mile "towns" in a county).    Even thinking about "zoning laws" and "eminent domain" in a town that size is semi-laughable... things just kind of "happen".   To compare a town of a few thousand to even an incorporated city of only 10,000 is a big difference in what kind of management and planning go on.
 
2013-04-18 02:00:50 PM  

mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: [img96.imageshack.us image 750x500]

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.

Halifax:
aprox. 2000 killed and 9000 injured
estimated force 2.9 KT

Texas City:
aprox. 450 killed and 5000 injured
estimated force 2.7 to 3.2 KT

Please explain "large margin"?

I'm just throwing shiat out there...like a five ton anchor 1/2 mile, and a two ton anchor 1.62 miles. Maybe me growing up 15 miles from the blast sight makes me wonder about the Halifax data.

I know. Because everything in Texas is bigger, better and more important. We get it.


You sound jealous
 
2013-04-18 02:11:45 PM  

spelletrader: You're right. That should read "If they were not adequately informed of the danger the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties."


But whose responsibility is it to inform/be informed?  If you are operating or building a facility that handles hazardous materials, your permit or your occupancy certificate has to reflect that.  I'm pretty sure a couple reasons for that is your facility has to be built with certain safeguards and the authorities having jurisdiction have to be aware that you exist.  Then the FD would be notified by the building department folks so they know what a fire at such-and-such address might involve.

I know this is rural Texas, but that type of reporting has to be pretty near universal.
 
2013-04-18 02:12:25 PM  

mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: [img96.imageshack.us image 750x500]

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.

Halifax:
aprox. 2000 killed and 9000 injured
estimated force 2.9 KT

Texas City:
aprox. 450 killed and 5000 injured
estimated force 2.7 to 3.2 KT

Please explain "large margin"?

I'm just throwing shiat out there...like a five ton anchor 1/2 mile, and a two ton anchor 1.62 miles. Maybe me growing up 15 miles from the blast sight makes me wonder about the Halifax data.

I know. Because everything in Texas is bigger, better and more important. We get it.


Just like our BBQ.
 
2013-04-18 02:18:13 PM  

mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: [img96.imageshack.us image 750x500]

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.

Halifax:
aprox. 2000 killed and 9000 injured
estimated force 2.9 KT

Texas City:
aprox. 450 killed and 5000 injured
estimated force 2.7 to 3.2 KT

Please explain "large margin"?


In Kilotons of TNT, Texas City was about 1.4KT.  Yeah, Halifax was definitely far worse.
 
2013-04-18 02:21:49 PM  

CygnusDarius: Oldiron_79: If I had stupid amounts of money Id pay stupidly to get to blow up a test site with a Tsar bomba.

I'm pretty sure some Russian millionaires do this.


assuming you can't get your hands on a nuke, if you want the biggest non nuclear boom available you go straight to the FAE (fuel-air explosive ) bombs.  One dropped during gulf war one to clear a minefield had such a powerful bomb that it was later dtermined that nearby Iraqi troops that weren;t killed by the blast wave proper asphyixiated because the explosion temporarily created a vacuum  in its radius
 
2013-04-18 02:22:43 PM  

Civil_War2_Time: mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: mjohnson71: Civil_War2_Time: [img96.imageshack.us image 750x500]

Texas City > Halifax by a large margin.

Halifax:
aprox. 2000 killed and 9000 injured
estimated force 2.9 KT

Texas City:
aprox. 450 killed and 5000 injured
estimated force 2.7 to 3.2 KT

Please explain "large margin"?

I'm just throwing shiat out there...like a five ton anchor 1/2 mile, and a two ton anchor 1.62 miles. Maybe me growing up 15 miles from the blast sight makes me wonder about the Halifax data.

I know. Because everything in Texas is bigger, better and more important. We get it.

Just like our BBQ.


And your brain tumors.
 
2013-04-18 02:24:34 PM  

Carousel Beast: Thebloodpotato: stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...

You just described Farkers to a T.


i do not deal with absolutes but i am sure you are mostly right.
 
2013-04-18 02:26:30 PM  

lunchinlewis: spelletrader: You're right. That should read "If they were not adequately informed of the danger the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties."

But whose responsibility is it to inform/be informed?  If you are operating or building a facility that handles hazardous materials, your permit or your occupancy certificate has to reflect that.  I'm pretty sure a couple reasons for that is your facility has to be built with certain safeguards and the authorities having jurisdiction have to be aware that you exist.  Then the FD would be notified by the building department folks so they know what a fire at such-and-such address might involve.

I know this is rural Texas, but that type of reporting has to be pretty near universal.


By federal law It is the responsibility of the company to have an emergency response plan which includes:

"1910.120(p)(8)(ii)(A)
Pre-emergency planning and coordination with outside parties."  q
 
2013-04-18 02:30:29 PM  

lunchinlewis: I know this is rural Texas, but that type of reporting has to be pretty near universal.


The plants that I have worked on have coordinated with local emergency services on an annual basis. The local departments also have highly detailed maps of each plant with lists of all materials stored or in process, so they know exactly what to expect if they are responding to a particular facility.

This information has to be provided by the company that operates the plant, no one else would have access to that information in the detail required.
 
2013-04-18 02:31:26 PM  

spelletrader: The company should have had a coordination plan with local emergency services. No one should have been fighting that fire, they should have concentrated emergency service efforts on evacuation of nearby facilities.

For those interested, situations like this are regulated by 29 CFR Part 1910,  Process Safety Management of Highly Hazardous Chemicals; Explosives and Blasting Agents.

While OSHA does periodic audits and inspections of companies (by industry code), realize that they are seriously understaffed for the job and can only inspect a small percentage of plants per year.


This town is about the size of my dad's Texas hometown, which has an all-volunteer fire department.  It's the kind of town where, when a grass fire is threatening a farm house, a fire truck stops at a couple places along main street to ask some relatives of the property owner to come help out.

I don't expect they had a lot of specialized training, even though they clearly should have.
 
2013-04-18 02:33:27 PM  

Magorn: CygnusDarius: Oldiron_79: If I had stupid amounts of money Id pay stupidly to get to blow up a test site with a Tsar bomba.

I'm pretty sure some Russian millionaires do this.

assuming you can't get your hands on a nuke, if you want the biggest non nuclear boom available you go straight to the FAE (fuel-air explosive ) bombs.  One dropped during gulf war one to clear a minefield had such a powerful bomb that it was later dtermined that nearby Iraqi troops that weren;t killed by the blast wave proper asphyixiated because the explosion temporarily created a vacuum  in its radius


What would be the consequences of dropping it in the middle of the DMZ in Korea?.
 
2013-04-18 02:34:46 PM  

Magorn: assuming you can't get your hands on a nuke, if you want the biggest non nuclear boom available you go straight to the FAE (fuel-air explosive ) bombs.  One dropped during gulf war one to clear a minefield had such a powerful bomb that it was later dtermined that nearby Iraqi troops that weren;t killed by the blast wave proper asphyixiated because the explosion temporarily created a vacuum  in its radius


(continuation of the question I said above)

Considering that the North Koreans don't/can't access a nuke of that power, or a functioning nuke in any way.
 
2013-04-18 02:43:29 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: This town is about the size of my dad's Texas hometown, which has an all-volunteer fire department.  It's the kind of town where, when a grass fire is threatening a farm house, a fire truck stops at a couple places along main street to ask some relatives of the property owner to come help out.

I don't expect they had a lot of specialized training, even though they clearly should have.


Make no mistake, the fire fighters are not to be blamed in any way whatsoever. I've coordinated with a few small town all volunteer fire departments in southern New Mexico, near the border with Texas, great bunch of seriously brave men and women. I am sure that their training was adequate, I highly suspect that the company was not diligent in communicating the danger properly to the department, or to the surrounding populace.
 
2013-04-18 02:46:09 PM  
Why doers this keep coming to mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ephTpUsYPxY
 
2013-04-18 02:48:57 PM  

Thebloodpotato: sethen320: Thebloodpotato: sethen320: Thebloodpotato: CygnusDarius: Thebloodpotato: Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

i live in texas...this place is pretty damn stupid.

Stupid as in "hold my beer" stupid? Or stupid "I know I can dance (while drunk)" stupid?.

stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...i put boot in there because texans love boots and i am willing to give back a little

Your description sounds a lot like New York.

that place is pretty awful until you go deep below the subways...but i wasn't aware they liked boots in new york.

True true...I forgot about the boots.  To be fair though we don't all like boots.  I like living here but I hate boots, country music, trailer homes, and "muddin".  I guess I'm a fluke.  I'm also not out in the middle of nowhere though.

im in the same "boot" as you are...i do know alot of people like me but they move to austin.


Boots?  I grew up in Galveston.  Our main footwear was flip-flops or sneakers.  The boot wearers are definitely outnumbered there and in Austin where I now reside.  Most of Texas' big cities have their "cowboy" crowd but they are the minority.  Now rural Texas is another story.  I'm not even sure what "muddin'" is...
 
2013-04-18 02:53:58 PM  
The national media seems to be challenged with understanding the difference between West, Texas and west Texas.  It's like "who's on first?".  West, Texas is a city in central Texas about 1/2 way between Austin and Dallas and west Texas is a region of the state where nobody wants to live.
 
2013-04-18 02:55:52 PM  

Magorn: CygnusDarius: Oldiron_79: If I had stupid amounts of money Id pay stupidly to get to blow up a test site with a Tsar bomba.

I'm pretty sure some Russian millionaires do this.

assuming you can't get your hands on a nuke, if you want the biggest non nuclear boom available you go straight to the FAE (fuel-air explosive ) bombs.  One dropped during gulf war one to clear a minefield had such a powerful bomb that it was later dtermined that nearby Iraqi troops that weren;t killed by the blast wave proper asphyixiated because the explosion temporarily created a vacuum  in its radius


Their lungs would've been wrecked by it.  They're one way to clear caves.  The explosion violently sucks the air from far within, causing severe lung damage and then death.  This use is controversial, the effect is not unlike some chemical weapons.
 
2013-04-18 02:57:11 PM  

revman64: The national media seems to be challenged with understanding the difference between West, Texas and west Texas.  It's like "who's on first?".  West, Texas is a city in central Texas about 1/2 way between Austin and Dallas and west Texas is a region of the state where nobody wants to live.


Locals sometimes refer to it as "West Comma Texas" when speaking with people from outside the region.
 
2013-04-18 02:58:35 PM  

lunchinlewis: spelletrader: You're right. That should read "If they were not adequately informed of the danger the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties."

But whose responsibility is it to inform/be informed?  If you are operating or building a facility that handles hazardous materials, your permit or your occupancy certificate has to reflect that.  I'm pretty sure a couple reasons for that is your facility has to be built with certain safeguards and the authorities having jurisdiction have to be aware that you exist.  Then the FD would be notified by the building department folks so they know what a fire at such-and-such address might involve.

I know this is rural Texas, but that type of reporting has to be pretty near universal.


The universal part is the big AMMONIA sign (along with the hazmat indicator) on the buildings and the side of the tank. West has a Fire Chief and an all volunteer fire department. In a town that measures 1 mile by 2 miles in area, everyone knew what was there.
 
2013-04-18 03:00:29 PM  
revman64: ...  I'm not even sure what "muddin'" is...

Driving one's "lifted" (raised beyond rollover protection range) pickup through fields after a non-trivial rain/thunderstorm, often accompanied by beer/"hold my beer". I hear it is enjoyable.

/ Grew up 50 miles south of West, ran off to East Coast college shortly after HS diploma hit my hand
// Was not the sort of girl brought along for "muddin'"
 
2013-04-18 03:01:40 PM  

vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.


I work in a fertilizer manufacturing plant situated right next to a residential area and an elementary school. When I'm up on the roof of our building I could probably bean a kid out at recess with a football if I wanted to. I'm waiting for the NIMBYs to show up on our front lawn and start raising hell.
 
2013-04-18 03:02:08 PM  

spelletrader: Skirl Hutsenreiter: This town is about the size of my dad's Texas hometown, which has an all-volunteer fire department.  It's the kind of town where, when a grass fire is threatening a farm house, a fire truck stops at a couple places along main street to ask some relatives of the property owner to come help out.

I don't expect they had a lot of specialized training, even though they clearly should have.

Make no mistake, the fire fighters are not to be blamed in any way whatsoever. I've coordinated with a few small town all volunteer fire departments in southern New Mexico, near the border with Texas, great bunch of seriously brave men and women. I am sure that their training was adequate, I highly suspect that the company was not diligent in communicating the danger properly to the department, or to the surrounding populace.


Agreed.  Being the only industry in town, a conscientious operator would pay for chemical fire training and refreshers for the department on a regular schedule.  Even just from a selfish perspective, you'd think they could get lower insurance rates.  Instead they clearly tried to pretend there was no risk.
 
2013-04-18 03:02:15 PM  

revman64: Thebloodpotato: sethen320: Thebloodpotato: sethen320: Thebloodpotato: CygnusDarius: Thebloodpotato: Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

i live in texas...this place is pretty damn stupid.

Stupid as in "hold my beer" stupid? Or stupid "I know I can dance (while drunk)" stupid?.

stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...i put boot in there because texans love boots and i am willing to give back a little

Your description sounds a lot like New York.

that place is pretty awful until you go deep below the subways...but i wasn't aware they liked boots in new york.

True true...I forgot about the boots.  To be fair though we don't all like boots.  I like living here but I hate boots, country music, trailer homes, and "muddin".  I guess I'm a fluke.  I'm also not out in the middle of nowhere though.

im in the same "boot" as you are...i do know alot of people like me but they move to austin.

Boots?  I grew up in Galveston.  Our main footwear was flip-flops or sneakers.  The boot wearers are definitely outnumbered there and in Austin where I now reside.  Most of Texas' big cities have their "cowboy" crowd but they are the minority.  Now rural Texas is another story.  I'm not even sure what "muddin'" is...


lol i hate mudding its the dumbest shiat...basically revving engines to get mud everywhere...i grew up in maryland directly on the chesapeake bay so the loss of beautiful scenery probably makes me a little prejudiced against this place... anyways im moving soon so it's all irrelevant. hopefully the united states will allow mexico to annex this boring ass state but i doubt it.
 
2013-04-18 03:07:18 PM  
cum cum cum
 
2013-04-18 03:10:17 PM  

SuperDarly: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

I work in a fertilizer manufacturing plant situated right next to a residential area and an elementary school. When I'm up on the roof of our building I could probably bean a kid out at recess with a football if I wanted to. I'm waiting for the NIMBYs to show up on our front lawn and start raising hell.


Forgot to add the pic to this post, my plant is marked with the "A"

i47.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-18 03:13:00 PM  

bdub77: you don't shiat where you eat.


This is Texas we are talking about here.
 
2013-04-18 03:13:18 PM  

Texmandie: revman64: ...  I'm not even sure what "muddin'" is...

Driving one's "lifted" (raised beyond rollover protection range) pickup through fields after a non-trivial rain/thunderstorm, often accompanied by beer/"hold my beer". I hear it is enjoyable.

/ Grew up 50 miles south of West, ran off to East Coast college shortly after HS diploma hit my hand
// Was not the sort of girl brought along for "muddin'"


I see.  Another Texas stereotype breaker here!  I've owned at least 8 vehicles and not one has been a pick-up.  I do enjoy the people here, mostly friendly, the cost of living and the lack of snow.  Muddin' sounds like it might be fun unless you get stuck...
 
2013-04-18 03:13:40 PM  
At least it didn't happen close to a nuclear power plant.

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-04-18 03:13:48 PM  
Did the little girl in the car get her hearing back?
 
2013-04-18 03:15:45 PM  

Therion: Smelly Pirate Hooker: NutWrench: Quit calling every bit of debris-strewn ground a "war zone," you nuts.

Yeah, this. Ruined, obliterated, leveled, destroyed. Any one of those words would do, without co-opting the now-cliche "war zone" reference.

The town was decimated!


There was a mass exodus!!!
 
2013-04-18 03:16:11 PM  
It's sad that my first thought when watching the coverage of the explosion was to wonder how many of the injured vote Republican. I wondered how many are uninsured and will be ruined by and biatching about medical bills when they consistently vote against healthcare for others. I wonder if the burn unit takes bootstraps as payment. They will get a big shock when follow up care and physical therapy aren't provided free of charge by the Emergency Room.
 
2013-04-18 03:19:29 PM  

Mija: It's sad that my first thought when watching the coverage of the explosion was to wonder how many of the injured vote Republican. I wondered how many are uninsured and will be ruined by and biatching about medical bills when they consistently vote against healthcare for others. I wonder if the burn unit takes bootstraps as payment. They will get a big shock when follow up care and physical therapy aren't provided free of charge by the Emergency Room.


It is sad that's what you thought first and not "I hope they're okay".
 
2013-04-18 03:36:25 PM  

Mija: It's sad that my first thought when watching the coverage of the explosion was to wonder how many of the injured vote Republican. I wondered how many are uninsured and will be ruined by and biatching about medical bills when they consistently vote against healthcare for others. I wonder if the burn unit takes bootstraps as payment. They will get a big shock when follow up care and physical therapy aren't provided free of charge by the Emergency Room.


The majority of the residents of West are of Czech descent, all are Texans. The Czech's migrated here to escape the turmoil and troubles in the Old World and many arrived with only the clothes on their backs. They now own all of those big flat fields you see in the pictures around West. They're smart, hardworking, and quick to help in need. Most, if not all, will have insurance. The few that don't will be cared for by family and neighbors until they get back on their own two feet. They won't sit around and moan because the government hasn't moved in to save them (like some other areas in this country that we've been hearing about for months), they'l be out assessing the damage and planning the rebuild as soon as the embers cool. The dead will be mourned, the injured will be healed, and the town will be rebuilt.
 
2013-04-18 03:36:47 PM  

SuperDarly: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

I work in a fertilizer manufacturing plant situated right next to a residential area and an elementary school. When I'm up on the roof of our building I could probably bean a kid out at recess with a football if I wanted to. I'm waiting for the NIMBYs to show up on our front lawn and start raising hell.


Well duh, your beaning elementary school kids with footballs!
 
2013-04-18 03:37:22 PM  
*you're
 
2013-04-18 03:42:15 PM  
Hope the friendly folks at the Little Czech Stop and Bakery are okay. Great place to stop for a snack on the way though central Texas.
 
2013-04-18 03:43:14 PM  
A new video angle of the explosion in the school parking lot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJgZsVyvzVI
 
2013-04-18 03:49:52 PM  

Guairdean: The majority of the residents of West are of Czech descent, all are Texans. The Czech's migrated here to escape the turmoil and troubles in the Old World and many arrived with only the clothes on their backs. They now own all of those big flat fields you see in the pictures around West. They're smart, hardworking, and quick to help in need. Most, if not all, will have insurance. The few that don't will be cared for by family and neighbors until they get back on their own two feet.


s15.postimg.org

There's no data for West, Texas (too small), but for McLennan County as a whole, where West is?  20% don't have insurance at all, 23% of those under 65 (those over have socialized medicine).

But, those are just worthless poor people, not Real Texans.
 
2013-04-18 03:56:31 PM  
Here's a picture someone forwarded to KWTX of the part of the plant on fire before the explosion.

i.imgur.com

KWTX said that building was a dry storage building full of ammonium nitrate.  Good God Almighty...
 
2013-04-18 03:56:40 PM  

Lawnchair: Guairdean: The majority of the residents of West are of Czech descent, all are Texans. The Czech's migrated here to escape the turmoil and troubles in the Old World and many arrived with only the clothes on their backs. They now own all of those big flat fields you see in the pictures around West. They're smart, hardworking, and quick to help in need. Most, if not all, will have insurance. The few that don't will be cared for by family and neighbors until they get back on their own two feet.

[s15.postimg.org image 652x657]

There's no data for West, Texas (too small), but for McLennan County as a whole, where West is?  20% don't have insurance at all, 23% of those under 65 (those over have socialized medicine).

But, those are just worthless poor people, not Real Texans.


Those margins of error for non-insured are huge as a %.  Makes one doubt the validity of the study.  Hell, the margin of error for over 65 without insurance is actually larger than the estimated number.
 
2013-04-18 04:06:19 PM  

Lawnchair: Guairdean: The majority of the residents of West are of Czech descent, all are Texans. The Czech's migrated here to escape the turmoil and troubles in the Old World and many arrived with only the clothes on their backs. They now own all of those big flat fields you see in the pictures around West. They're smart, hardworking, and quick to help in need. Most, if not all, will have insurance. The few that don't will be cared for by family and neighbors until they get back on their own two feet.

[s15.postimg.org image 652x657]

There's no data for West, Texas (too small), but for McLennan County as a whole, where West is?  20% don't have insurance at all, 23% of those under 65 (those over have socialized medicine).

But, those are just worthless poor people, not Real Texans.


They're real Texans. Texans who'll recover, both physically and emotionally, pay their bills and move on. I understand that you can't comprehend someone living their life without government control and aid, but I assure you it happens and will continue to happen.
 
2013-04-18 04:07:22 PM  

Guairdean: Mija: It's sad that my first thought when watching the coverage of the explosion was to wonder how many of the injured vote Republican. I wondered how many are uninsured and will be ruined by and biatching about medical bills when they consistently vote against healthcare for others. I wonder if the burn unit takes bootstraps as payment. They will get a big shock when follow up care and physical therapy aren't provided free of charge by the Emergency Room.

The majority of the residents of West are of Czech descent, all are Texans. The Czech's migrated here to escape the turmoil and troubles in the Old World and many arrived with only the clothes on their backs. They now own all of those big flat fields you see in the pictures around West. They're smart, hardworking, and quick to help in need. Most, if not all, will have insurance. The few that don't will be cared for by family and neighbors until they get back on their own two feet. They won't sit around and moan because the government hasn't moved in to save them (like some other areas in this country that we've been hearing about for months), they'l be out assessing the damage and planning the rebuild as soon as the embers cool. The dead will be mourned, the injured will be healed, and the town will be rebuilt.


Given that My sister did a residency in the FREE- Government Run Health Clinic in Flatonia, let me also add that they are a backwards superstitous lot, the majorityof whom haven't even bothered to learn English in the 150 + years they've been here
 
2013-04-18 04:13:43 PM  
I think we need to start sacrificings some virgins to appease whichever god is pissed.
 
2013-04-18 04:14:25 PM  

Lawnchair: Guairdean: The majority of the residents of West are of Czech descent, all are Texans. The Czech's migrated here to escape the turmoil and troubles in the Old World and many arrived with only the clothes on their backs. They now own all of those big flat fields you see in the pictures around West. They're smart, hardworking, and quick to help in need. Most, if not all, will have insurance. The few that don't will be cared for by family and neighbors until they get back on their own two feet.

[s15.postimg.org image 652x657]

There's no data for West, Texas (too small), but for McLennan County as a whole, where West is?  20% don't have insurance at all, 23% of those under 65 (those over have socialized medicine).

But, those are just worthless poor people, not Real Texans.


================

The people answering those meddling Census questionnaires are not real Texans.  Real Texans shoot Census workers.  See here  http://jonathanturley.org/2010/05/17/texas-lawyer-fires-gun-at-census - worker-five-times/
 
2013-04-18 04:24:50 PM  

Magorn: Guairdean: Mija: It's sad that my first thought when watching the coverage of the explosion was to wonder how many of the injured vote Republican. I wondered how many are uninsured and will be ruined by and biatching about medical bills when they consistently vote against healthcare for others. I wonder if the burn unit takes bootstraps as payment. They will get a big shock when follow up care and physical therapy aren't provided free of charge by the Emergency Room.

The majority of the residents of West are of Czech descent, all are Texans. The Czech's migrated here to escape the turmoil and troubles in the Old World and many arrived with only the clothes on their backs. They now own all of those big flat fields you see in the pictures around West. They're smart, hardworking, and quick to help in need. Most, if not all, will have insurance. The few that don't will be cared for by family and neighbors until they get back on their own two feet. They won't sit around and moan because the government hasn't moved in to save them (like some other areas in this country that we've been hearing about for months), they'l be out assessing the damage and planning the rebuild as soon as the embers cool. The dead will be mourned, the injured will be healed, and the town will be rebuilt.

Given that My sister did a residency in the FREE- Government Run Health Clinic in Flatonia, let me also add that they are a backwards superstitous lot, the majorityof whom haven't even bothered to learn English in the 150 + years they've been here


Let me add my thanks that your family does not live in Texas. Hopefully someone will translate my responses into English so that you can understand them.
 
2013-04-18 04:30:27 PM  

Magorn: Guairdean: Mija: It's sad that my first thought when watching the coverage of the explosion was to wonder how many of the injured vote Republican. I wondered how many are uninsured and will be ruined by and biatching about medical bills when they consistently vote against healthcare for others. I wonder if the burn unit takes bootstraps as payment. They will get a big shock when follow up care and physical therapy aren't provided free of charge by the Emergency Room.

The majority of the residents of West are of Czech descent, all are Texans. The Czech's migrated here to escape the turmoil and troubles in the Old World and many arrived with only the clothes on their backs. They now own all of those big flat fields you see in the pictures around West. They're smart, hardworking, and quick to help in need. Most, if not all, will have insurance. The few that don't will be cared for by family and neighbors until they get back on their own two feet. They won't sit around and moan because the government hasn't moved in to save them (like some other areas in this country that we've been hearing about for months), they'l be out assessing the damage and planning the rebuild as soon as the embers cool. The dead will be mourned, the injured will be healed, and the town will be rebuilt.

Given that My sister did a residency in the FREE- Government Run Health Clinic in Flatonia, let me also add that they are a backwards superstitous lot, the majorityof whom haven't even bothered to learn English in the 150 + years they've been here


If they've lived 150+ years, perhaps its time I moved to Flatonia for the free government health care clinic.
 
2013-04-18 04:43:22 PM  

spelletrader: If the company had done the right thing those fire fighters would have been assisting in the evacuation instead of fighting the fire.

Fire fighters know to never fight a fire when explosive material is involved. They were not adequately informed of the danger and the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties.


Nice troll.

The town mayor, who is one of the firefighters that responded, said they were evacuating people when it blew.
 
2013-04-18 04:47:33 PM  

Mija: It's sad that my first thought when watching the coverage of the explosion was to wonder how many of the injured vote Republican. I wondered how many are uninsured and will be ruined by and biatching about medical bills when they consistently vote against healthcare for others. I wonder if the burn unit takes bootstraps as payment. They will get a big shock when follow up care and physical therapy aren't provided free of charge by the Emergency Room.


If they are like most of those in Texas that do not have healthcare insurance, they simply do not understand the point. The Hispanic culture particularly is wary of this concept. You have people that won't use a bank and keep cash under their mattresses. Yes, in rural areas they cannot afford it, but the majority of people - at least where I am from in Texas, don't believe or see a need for it. We are talking about people whose primary form of medicine is "toughing it out." Granted this is a sweeping generalization, but it is far from a bunch of bootstrappy people-who have fallen on hard times-and simply cannot afford health insurance.
 
2013-04-18 06:08:52 PM  

JustGetItRight: spelletrader: If the company had done the right thing those fire fighters would have been assisting in the evacuation instead of fighting the fire.

Fire fighters know to never fight a fire when explosive material is involved. They were not adequately informed of the danger and the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties.

Nice troll.

The town mayor, who is one of the firefighters that responded, said they were evacuating people when it blew.


How was anything that I posted even remotely trolling?

Of course they were evacuating, they were also fighting that fire with no apparent knowledge of the possibility or severity of potential explosion. That is certainly not their own fault, the company that owns and operates the plant should have clearly communicated the possible danger long before this incident occurred.
 
2013-04-18 06:59:24 PM  

spelletrader: JustGetItRight: spelletrader: If the company had done the right thing those fire fighters would have been assisting in the evacuation instead of fighting the fire.

Fire fighters know to never fight a fire when explosive material is involved. They were not adequately informed of the danger and the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties.

Nice troll.

The town mayor, who is one of the firefighters that responded, said they were evacuating people when it blew.

How was anything that I posted even remotely trolling?

Of course they were evacuating, they were also fighting that fire with no apparent knowledge of the possibility or severity of potential explosion. That is certainly not their own fault, the company that owns and operates the plant should have clearly communicated the possible danger long before this incident occurred.


Apparently there were no sprinklers, even though they are required in Texas.  This is going to create a fiasco well beyond the boundaries of West.  TCEQ is widely known for its lethargy and corruption, but now they've possibly killed a bunch of first responders.
 
2013-04-18 07:04:42 PM  
Texas City was a huge explosion but Halifax was larger and had a worse outcome for the nearby residents. Why you would argue this is beyond me, lern2data.
 
2013-04-18 07:17:46 PM  
For any of the Brother Farkers, it looks like the SR body in Waco is asking for help. The GL has responded, but there's still some Brothers in trouble.

I'm sending some cash their way- all I can do.
 
2013-04-18 09:11:24 PM  

TheDirtyNacho: spelletrader: JustGetItRight: spelletrader: If the company had done the right thing those fire fighters would have been assisting in the evacuation instead of fighting the fire.

Fire fighters know to never fight a fire when explosive material is involved. They were not adequately informed of the danger and the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties.

Nice troll.

The town mayor, who is one of the firefighters that responded, said they were evacuating people when it blew.

How was anything that I posted even remotely trolling?

Of course they were evacuating, they were also fighting that fire with no apparent knowledge of the possibility or severity of potential explosion. That is certainly not their own fault, the company that owns and operates the plant should have clearly communicated the possible danger long before this incident occurred.

Apparently there were no sprinklers, even though they are required in Texas.  This is going to create a fiasco well beyond the boundaries of West.  TCEQ is widely known for its lethargy and corruption, but now they've possibly killed a bunch of first responders.


The Governor, Lege, and AG of Texas have been fighting tooth, claw, and nail since January 20th, 2009 to declare the EPA null and void in Texas and give all industrial regulation authority over to the TCEQ. And the TCEQ is a corrupt rubber-stamp agency staffed by Oil & Gas company cronies, surprise, surprise, surprise. But the rural voters of Texas will blindly ignore the facts of this tragedy and continue voting for the GOP because socialism. If you elect people who believe that the government can only do bad, then your government will only do bad.
 
2013-04-18 09:15:05 PM  
Things blowing up seems to be a recurring theme.....Lived a few miles from where this happened when I was a kid.
i599.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-18 11:15:41 PM  

Texian: TheDirtyNacho: spelletrader: JustGetItRight: spelletrader: If the company had done the right thing those fire fighters would have been assisting in the evacuation instead of fighting the fire.

Fire fighters know to never fight a fire when explosive material is involved. They were not adequately informed of the danger and the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties.

Nice troll.

The town mayor, who is one of the firefighters that responded, said they were evacuating people when it blew.
How was anything that I posted even remotely trolling?

Of course they were evacuating, they were also fighting that fire with no apparent knowledge of the possibility or severity of potential explosion. That is certainly not their own fault, the company that owns and operates the plant should have clearly communicated the possible danger long before this incident occurred.

Apparently there were no sprinklers, even though they are required in Texas.  This is going to create a fiasco well beyond the boundaries of West.  TCEQ is widely known for its lethargy and corruption, but now they've possibly killed a bunch of first responders.

The Governor, Lege, and AG of Texas have been fighting tooth, claw, and nail since January 20th, 2009 to declare the EPA null and void in Texas and give all industrial regulation authority over to the TCEQ. And the TCEQ is a corrupt rubber-stamp agency staffed by Oil & Gas company cronies, surprise, surprise, surprise. But the rural voters of Texas will blindly ignore the facts of this tragedy and continue voting for the GOP because socialism. If you elect people who believe that the government can only do bad, then your government will only do bad.


I'm probably being too optimistic, but this could be what sinks Perry and his cronies once and for all.  It's one thing to ignore air quality standards, which is terrible but a hard thing to keep in people's minds, but its another to have honest blood on their hands.  The only thing TCEQ ever fined this plant for was "too much smell".  There is no excuse for it to not have a sprinkler system and for them to look the other way.  I hope the feds open a damning investigation, and I believe they may in fact do so.  TCEQ has contributed, if not outright culpable for, this tragedy.
 
2013-04-18 11:57:57 PM  

revman64: Hope the friendly folks at the Little Czech Stop and Bakery are okay. Great place to stop for a snack on the way though central Texas.


According to Mother Jones, Czech Stop survived the blast and in fact remained open throughout the ordeal.

Other updates:

Death toll now at 35, including 10 first responders.

The fertilizer plant has not had a complaint since 2006, which means that it has not been inspected since 2006.

In February, a fire at the plant caused a temporary evacuation of West Intermediary School.
 
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