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(Fark)   Texas Department of Public Safety and Texas Rangers are asking anyone who is self-dispatching to help at the West, TX explosion DO NOT DO SO. They have too many responders without any chain of control at this time   (fark.com) divider line 47
    More: PSA, Texas Department of Public Safety, Texas Rangers  
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4306 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2013 at 1:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-04-18 01:41:27 AM  
4 votes:

RavenOnyx: My husband's family lives in West. We have not been able to contact anyone. I'm so worried :(


Hoping for the best for them.. Here's some info I scraped off WFAA's website:


WEST, Texas - Below, you will find the latest news and information as it is rolling into our newsroom.


Evacuees were told to go to the community center in Abbott, Texas, about five miles north of WestHillcrest

Hospital patient information hotline 254-202-1100 (KWTX News 10)

FAA has placed a temporary flight restriction over airspace around the TX explosion. Only emergency aircraft allowed to operate.

(ABC News)Most critical patients to Hillcrest Baptist in Waco, followed by Providence Hospital.

The town of west has a population of about 2,800.

 (ABC News)First Baptist Church of Lott has room for anyone needing a place to stay. Call 254-829-2321.

 (KWTX News 10)Eight to ten blocks evacuated in West, Texas.

(Sheriff)West Fertilizer Company was fined $2,300 in 2006 becuse it "failed to implement the risk management plan."

(News Channel 25)Home Depot in Bellmead is open all night for assistance.

 (News Channel 25)RT @jayhicks: Trooper Wilson: Plant is still smoldering. Won't go back in. 50-75 homes have been destroyed.West Mayor says 4 to 5 firemen are unaccounted for. (RT by KWTX News 10)

Blair's Cove Apts in Waco offering housing to any resident affected by #Westexplosion 2425 S. 21 Street (254) 447-0810

The West Police Department has called for a mass evacuation.

First Baptist Church of Lott is taking in refugees at 228 Wildcat Cr. Lott, TX. (254) 829-2321

Turner's in downtown Waco is taking refugees with pets. They are located at 721 Austin Ave. Contact shane Turner at (254) 644-7904.

Church of the Open door will be opened for survivors. They are located off of exit 339 in Bellmead.
2013-04-18 02:10:58 AM  
3 votes:

Frederick: Theres such a thing as too much help?  Wouldnt it make more sense to arrive and stand by out of the way?  Or is the thought process that people dont know what "out of the way" is?


Chemical plants are very farking dangerous places to be during normal operation anyway.  One that has just exploded where the situation inside is likely still changing is even more so.  The last thing they need is a bunch of people standing around with their hands in their pants that don't have a clue what to do or where to go...one of the main reasons for evacuations is just to get people away from dangerous shiat so they don't wait until the last second and then clog the roads.  500 ambulances and fire trucks blocks the road just as much as 500 cars and trucks.

These things have very well planned out emergency procedures, including amount of responders.  These plans take into account potential risk to the responders, traffic flow, material, staffing, evacuation routes, etc.

This is in part because of an accident in the 1970s.  A chemical plant farked up and absolutely everyone that could hold a damn shovel showed up.  Well, it blew up again, and now instead of a few injured workers, they had to treat over a hundred people for chemical burns, lung damage, etc.  The REAL responders set up a perimeter at a safe distance.  These people rushed to the front gates.  Of course when it was over they started demanding other people pay for their misfortune...
2013-04-18 04:44:59 AM  
2 votes:

Friction8r: Some insolent farkers, in their "presumed position of authority," even though they are not at the scene, get off on telling other farkers to stay away. It feeds their air of self-importance on an anonymous message board.


Actually, it was Texas Department of Public Safety and Texas Law Enforcement that said that. But I'm sure you, random internet person who posts on an "anonymous" message board with an air of self-importance, know better than experts in their field.
2013-04-18 02:08:48 AM  
2 votes:
As an emergency dispatcher, I tend to be quiet and just lurk. Subby is right. If you don't know what you're doing and you are not in the command chain, then stay the fark out of the way.

We have had some in depth reminders this week about various shiat
2013-04-18 01:57:20 AM  
2 votes:
Sad events, sad days for the US.

I can, in a way, relate to that sense of fear and confusion a few might be getting. Mexico has been steadily having these problems, from shootings that could very well be classified as terror acts, then a sort of natural disasters and accidents. It depresses you, and it makes you want to leave the country to somewhere else more calm. But, it's these days that test the mettle of the human spirit, it's these days that weed out the meek and the strong, the days that turn otherwise ordinary citizens into heroic figures.

The darker the night, the closer it is to dawn.
2013-04-18 01:45:18 AM  
2 votes:

RavenOnyx: My husband's family lives in West. We have not been able to contact anyone. I'm so worried :(


I hope all is well. Try using SMS rather than a phone call - it may be delayed, but it's much more likely to get through.
From one of the DFW stations:


Officials say family members looking for loved ones can call 254-202-1100.


Read more:  http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/22007886/injuries-building-damage-in-fe r tilizer-plant-explosion#ixzz2Qn5p3Neq
2013-04-18 01:42:17 AM  
2 votes:

thisisyourbrainonFark: RavenOnyx: My husband's family lives in West. We have not been able to contact anyone. I'm so worried :(

Oh god. Hope the best for your family. :(


http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/Explosion-Injuries-Reported-At-We st -Fertilizer-Plant-203505331.html

To check on injured residents admitted to Hillcrest Baptist Medical Center call (254) 202-1100

For family inquiries about patients at Scott & White call (888) 394-4947

Family inquiries about patients at Providence Health Center (254) 761-7200
2013-04-18 01:18:22 AM  
2 votes:
But what if I'm part of an emergency looting crew?
2013-04-18 01:16:21 AM  
2 votes:
If you could please post this as a PSA for anyone, not just Firefighters, Law Enforcement, or EMS.

If you are in the area, do NOT go yourself to help unless you are part of a response agency or called to do so.
2013-04-18 09:21:13 AM  
1 votes:

DoctorCal: Man. I only came in this thread hoping to see you post. Glad you're ok


I'm about 3 hours NW of West. They have solid mutual aid from Waco and surrounding communities and since it's been declared a crime scene, they are now getting state and federal assistance. As much as we would like to get down there and assist, we'd be more in the way than anything.

Thanks though. Through all of the bullshiat that goes on here, Fark is for the most part a tight community and this is what has kept me around for 10 years.
2013-04-18 06:30:14 AM  
1 votes:
I've decided there needs to be a separate word, "helpy", for people who insist on giving much help, that ends up being the opposite of actually helpful.
2013-04-18 06:29:16 AM  
1 votes:

Friction8r: Some insolent farkers, in their "presumed position of authority," even though they are not at the scene, get off on telling other farkers to stay away. It feeds their air of self-importance on an anonymous message board.


I'm pretty sure "insolent Farker" is redundant :)
2013-04-18 04:43:12 AM  
1 votes:

Mutt Farkinov: Your insult wasn't vague--it was pointed at a small community of people and meant to mock those often considered the butt of jokes on the interwebz and Fark.


Yeah. I've lived and grown in up Alabama and various Florida cities. I'm not a child; I don't get upset if I read some negative stereotype about my community; usually they make me laugh.

So boo hoo. Grow up. People really are suffering tonight and I promise you my cutting-edge comments about small-town Texas didn't contribute to any of them. Sheesh.
2013-04-18 04:26:59 AM  
1 votes:

Myria: However, not everyone knows of the risks of being even that far from a fertilizer fire. For most other fires, that would have been a safe distance.


I blame our education system here. Maybe if we had better physics teachers. But then again, 6 + 6 + 6 = 666 and the only letters I need to know are U, S, and A because Jebus.

/concatenation is fun
2013-04-18 04:22:44 AM  
1 votes:

eventhelosers: iGNORE THIS PSA

I ignore control freaks.  They never want to take responsibility for their actions, if the dog gammed leaders in charge are so smart where is their contingency plan, blah blah...


This looks like bad advice.
2013-04-18 04:20:54 AM  
1 votes:
New vid of explosion from another brave/dumb soul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJgZsVyvzVI
2013-04-18 04:17:51 AM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: eventhelosers: /If the world would listen I could make it a better place one fark post at a time

Or, if you're actually serious and not trying to be funny, you're going to get people killed by doing what you say. Of course, it's always a good idea to wade into a HAZMAT zone with no protection or communication because you "want to help", right?

Never mind that there are hundreds of TRAINED people there right now, and a second tank is possibly going to explode.

eventhelosers: I ignore control freaks.  They never want to take responsibility for their actions, if the dog gammed leaders in charge are so smart where is their contingency plan, and why wasn't this avoided in the first place.

Wow. I have no words for this.

You ignore people who know more about the situation than you, and pretend to think that it's the fault of the people there trying to keep more people from being killed that the explosion occurred in the first place?

eventhelosers: On the other hand, if there are just way to many f*cking people there helping already, find a way to help further out of the way.

Either you're stupid, or you lack the ability to read with comprehension. That's what people have said. Contact your local red cross chapter. Consider donating blood in the next few days - they don't need it now, and if they do they'll announce on the news, but they WILL need blood donated to replenish their depleted stocks.

eventhelosers: I'm sure hospitals around are accepting blood, food and shelter areas need to be set up.

See aforementioned post. Unless you're with the red cross, or contacted by them to volunteer at a shelter, don't arbitrarily show up. They will not put you to work there unless you've been vetted and oriented by them before the event.

eventhelosers: Anyway I got a horse show to run gotta go.

If you're trying to be funny, you suck at it. If you're actually being serious, bravo. You've out-stupided people who have trolled FARK for years.


If he's trolling, he's a retard. If he's serious, it's because of idiots like this that they want people to stay the f*ck away from the disaster scene please. They don't need more fools like this who want to tell EMS personnel with a combined experience of 900 centuries what to do.
2013-04-18 04:14:16 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: Theres such a thing as too much help?  Wouldnt it make more sense to arrive and stand by out of the way?  Or is the thought process that people dont know what "out of the way" is?


This. And people will argue with the sheriff, fire commander, cops, and other authority figures on scene because they think THEY know how to run an emergency scene because they saw this one episode of CSI and it was totally not like what the cops are trying to do.
2013-04-18 04:05:39 AM  
1 votes:

eventhelosers: /If the world would listen I could make it a better place one fark post at a time


Or, if you're actually serious and not trying to be funny, you're going to get people killed by doing what you say. Of course, it's always a good idea to wade into a HAZMAT zone with no protection or communication because you "want to help", right?

Never mind that there are hundreds of TRAINED people there right now, and a second tank is possibly going to explode.

eventhelosers: I ignore control freaks.  They never want to take responsibility for their actions, if the dog gammed leaders in charge are so smart where is their contingency plan, and why wasn't this avoided in the first place.


Wow. I have no words for this.

You ignore people who know more about the situation than you, and pretend to think that it's the fault of the people there trying to keep more people from being killed that the explosion occurred in the first place?

eventhelosers: On the other hand, if there are just way to many f*cking people there helping already, find a way to help further out of the way.


Either you're stupid, or you lack the ability to read with comprehension. That's what people have said. Contact your local red cross chapter. Consider donating blood in the next few days - they don't need it now, and if they do they'll announce on the news, but they WILL need blood donated to replenish their depleted stocks.

eventhelosers: I'm sure hospitals around are accepting blood, food and shelter areas need to be set up.


See aforementioned post. Unless you're with the red cross, or contacted by them to volunteer at a shelter, don't arbitrarily show up. They will not put you to work there unless you've been vetted and oriented by them before the event.

eventhelosers: Anyway I got a horse show to run gotta go.


If you're trying to be funny, you suck at it. If you're actually being serious, bravo. You've out-stupided people who have trolled FARK for years.
2013-04-18 04:00:22 AM  
1 votes:

nyrkah1: Watching a live video stream from Texas, I've heart two different reporters ask two different people "what's in your heart?". Is that some kind of Texas thing? Or Jesus thing? Or both? Or am I having auditory hallucinations?


Reporter (not any of the reporters you're talking about) here: it's just asking how they're feeling at this time, we do this because my boss tells me people care more about the emotional aspect rather than the factual information provided by authorities...I'm told I feel this way too.  Find your local sheriff/police department Facebook and/or Twitter if you want real evacuation or safety information.  News people are too busy finding "real people" with emotional reactions and can't be bothered to pass on facts.
2013-04-18 03:48:04 AM  
1 votes:
(deleted: Personal attacks/namecalling; I understand, but dont compound it please)

Fair enough, admin, please allow me to rephrase.  Confabulat, a guy I've known and worked with for 13 years lost his brother tonight in that explosion.  He was a firefighter just there doing his job.  I'm sure it was standard Fark trolling that you were doing.  I hope that you are blessed with a long life and that you are surrounded all the way into old age by family and kids and grandchildren.  I'd be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that people in West, TX haven't drawn your ire in any specific way and that yours was just a moment of derp while trying to be edgy and cool.  I've no doubt that all those who read your posts now will recognize you for the thoughtful philanthropist you are.

All the best,

Mutt
2013-04-18 03:16:05 AM  
1 votes:

Paris1127: What were they storing in this place, rocket fuel?


Anhydrous ammonia and nitrates for oxidizing. Probably some hydrogen sulfides on site. All that stuff goes into fertilizer.

A little bit of chemistry knowledge means that that place is a literally a bomb. Growing up in a farm area means you learn really damn fast what's dangerous in agriculture.
2013-04-18 03:12:49 AM  
1 votes:
Frederick: Theres such a thing as too much help?  Wouldnt it make more sense to arrive and stand by out of the way?  Or is the thought process that people dont know what "out of the way" is?

Yes, too much help. And people that can't follow instructions. Or people who just start doing something because it seems like a good idea*. Or get pissy because they don't like the task they were given, even though it's something necessary. Or leave in the middle because they don't like the task. Or people who donate stuff that we don't need and can't use. Donate cash please. We have specific needs and buy in bulk; we can get more than you can for the same amount of money. Or at least check the web site where we list items we actually need. And if we list a brand name, we have a reason. Get the brand and type we specified.

*for example: "helpful" volunteers see a bunch of stuff piled up outside the building. They see a partially empty room inside and just decide to move all the stuff into the room, filling it up. Well, guess what? That's a conference room, people are working in there, we need that space. So now move it all back outside.  Thanks so much for helping.

I know that doesn't sound like much, but when it's one thing after another, day after day, it gets tiresome.
2013-04-18 03:05:57 AM  
1 votes:

nyrkah1: Watching a live video stream from Texas, I've heart two different reporters ask two different people "what's in your heart?". Is that some kind of Texas thing? Or Jesus thing? Or both? Or am I having auditory hallucinations?


The stars at night - are big and bright
Deep in the heart of texas.
The prairie sky - is wide and high
Deep in the heart of texas.
The sage in bloom - is like perfume
Deep in the heart of texas.
Reminds me of - the one I love
Deep in the heart of texas.
The cowboys cry - ki-yip-pie-yi
Deep in the heart of texas.
The rabbits rush - around the brush
Deep in the heart of texas.
The coyotes wail - along the trail
Deep in the heart of texas.
The doggies bawl - and bawl and bawl
Deep in the heart of texas.
2013-04-18 03:03:07 AM  
1 votes:
So some lazy pioneer just stopped there and said, fark it we'll build a factory and eh, call it West, close enough.

Yeah I'm sure it's a wonderful place. I'm guessing they probably chased off any of them fancy federal factory inspectors 30 years ago.
2013-04-18 03:00:33 AM  
1 votes:

Paris1127: What were they storing in this place, rocket fuel?


The components for fertilizer, just as explosive.
2013-04-18 02:58:58 AM  
1 votes:
I responded to the 35W bridge collapse as a paramedic, and can tell you that the amount of people who self-dispatched was staggering.  Fire trucks and squads showing up from departments from God knows where all trying to help when we were trying to CLEAR the roads and radio traffic to get ambulances out.  All these folks succeeded in doing was keeping rescuers from doing their job.  It was a clusterf*ck.

STAY THE HELL AWAY unless you are summoned.

Don't get me wrong, people have good intentions, but if you aren't requested, you hinder the process.  There is a method to the madness of incident command structure at a mass casualty incident.
2013-04-18 02:48:18 AM  
1 votes:

Larmer: As a volunteer firefighter in the middle of nowhere, this is my recurring nightmare; a fire that rapidly gets beyond our capabilities in a bad way.

Last summer, we got a call that lightning struck the Esso Oil tank farm in town, and that there was smoke showing.  No page went out right away, but a few of us went down to the hall to see what was up.  I remember wondering about just what the hell we were going to do if it really did get hit; there's only 20 of us, the closest mutual aid is 1200km to the south, and we`ve only got two pumpers and a few water/shiat trucks at our disposal.  We talked a bit about the "rule of thumb", as in put your thumb up in your field of vision, and if you can still see the fire, you're too farking close...

Terrible, terrible news... I'm not a praying man myself, but our whole department is hoping for the best of a bad situation down there.  Sounds as though this will be one of those lessons learned issues of Firehouse in the coming months though...



Pre-fire plan and set unmanned master streams if you can.  Evacuate area ASAP.  If your department hasn't planned for this, please keep pushing and don't give in to the "won't ever happen to us" mentality.  Thoe only thing more tragic than losing firefighters is not learning from the situation that caused it.  Be safe, brother.
2013-04-18 02:42:51 AM  
1 votes:

Myria: Skyd1v: most shaky earthquake zones in the country

I don't think you're referring to California, but I live in California, earthquake central as far as the U.S. is concerned.  I'm not really afraid of earthquakes, because our infrastructure is better designed for them, out of necessity and sad experience.  Whereas that 5.0 earthquake that shook the East Coast caused people there to be scared, a 5.0 to us generally a short fun ride.  Real damage doesn't occur until the 6.0's.

Modern large California earthquakes cause plenty of damage and deaths, but nothing on the scale of something like a powerful hurricane.


Earthquakes on the East Coast are more problematic because the bedrock is rigid and carry the waves about three times farther out than they do in California.

Also, I think he was referring to Alaska, which makes California look like a bastion of geological stability.
2013-04-18 02:36:44 AM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: redsquid: And somehow, even though you guys get plenty of gross stuff on you also, paramedics in uniform don't gross me out like folks in scrubs. I know it's all psychlogical, but that's the way it is.

You've never lived until you've had your vomit baptism.

I can also tell you from doing mouth to mouth what partially digested Spagetti-Os and Vodak tastes like.

Headed on a call. You guys hold down the fort. *salute*



Farkied you as being a fellow, "in the business".  Can't say who I'm with organizationally on public media, but I'm a FF/medic close by.  My department sent hazmat regional response for mutual aid.  After the first explosion, there were reports of ammonia leaking.  Worked in the business for a while with a guy whose brother was reported to be on scene when the explosion (looks like a BLEVE to me) occurred.  Another brother that lives 12 miles away felt the explosion and had his house doors blown shut.

For the douche talking earlier about comparing wearing his lab coat to EMS:  fark you.  If you had anything to do with emergency management, you'd know not to armchair quarterback.  You, sir or ma'am, may go to hell and take your farking phlebotomist or piss-dunking qualification with you.  biatch.

Hardinparamedic, the posts you've been making in this thread are spot on.  Thank you.
2013-04-18 02:30:05 AM  
1 votes:
As a volunteer firefighter in the middle of nowhere, this is my recurring nightmare; a fire that rapidly gets beyond our capabilities in a bad way.

Last summer, we got a call that lightning struck the Esso Oil tank farm in town, and that there was smoke showing.  No page went out right away, but a few of us went down to the hall to see what was up.  I remember wondering about just what the hell we were going to do if it really did get hit; there's only 20 of us, the closest mutual aid is 1200km to the south, and we`ve only got two pumpers and a few water/shiat trucks at our disposal.  We talked a bit about the "rule of thumb", as in put your thumb up in your field of vision, and if you can still see the fire, you're too farking close...

Terrible, terrible news... I'm not a praying man myself, but our whole department is hoping for the best of a bad situation down there.  Sounds as though this will be one of those lessons learned issues of Firehouse in the coming months though...
2013-04-18 02:28:48 AM  
1 votes:

Uakronkid: HotWingAgenda: I'm starting to get a little nervous about being in one of the few parts of the country that has not had a major catastrophic event in the last 6 months.  It's like being the last cow in line at the slaughterhouse and seeing all the other cows go down in front of you.

I live in Ohio. Nothing happens here. No major weather events, no earthquakes, no industrial disasters, not interesting enough for terrorists. We're boring enough that fate might just forget about us and skip us by.


The people of Xenia, Ohio may want to have a word with you.
2013-04-18 02:19:25 AM  
1 votes:
To make matters even worse, a cold front is barreling down on North Texas as I type this, and temps will be plummeting into the low 40s in West, with rain, wind, and generally shiatty weather for the next few days.
2013-04-18 02:13:51 AM  
1 votes:
You know, Kim Jong Un could be getting pissed at being thrown off the news by two terrorist attacks and an industrial accident.  That's one way in which this week could get worse...
2013-04-18 02:05:09 AM  
1 votes:

Uakronkid: HotWingAgenda: I'm starting to get a little nervous about being in one of the few parts of the country that has not had a major catastrophic event in the last 6 months.  It's like being the last cow in line at the slaughterhouse and seeing all the other cows go down in front of you.

I live in Ohio. Nothing happens here. No major weather events, no earthquakes, no industrial disasters, not interesting enough for terrorists. We're boring enough that fate might just forget about us and skip us by.


You have Cleveland. You've suffered enough.
2013-04-18 02:02:35 AM  
1 votes:

TiredWings: Dammit, it's a sad event , but it is nice to see that they already have offers of too much help. Nice to see the surrounding areas making space for survivors. If you have never been to Texas, they really do think they are a separate country and take up for each other like no place I've ever been before. God Speed !


Texans are some hospitable folks, but I think it's a trait we all share. When things get bad we tend to step up and do what needs to be done. We are a country that's good at bad times, it's only when we're comfortable and things are back to normal that we start to get after each other again.
2013-04-18 01:57:00 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: Theres such a thing as too much help?  Wouldnt it make more sense to arrive and stand by out of the way?  Or is the thought process that people dont know what "out of the way" is?


yes, way too much help. humans are actually pretty slow at most stuff. especially big stuff. you should have seen the cluster fark in manhattan following 9/11. People driving in from out of state like NYC has never handled a demolition project before anyone had figured out who was in charge or what the plan was.  we have dispatchers for  a reason, if you ar enot on shift, watch the damn news from home or a bar Captain Americas !
2013-04-18 01:57:00 AM  
1 votes:
I'm starting to get a little nervous about being in one of the few parts of the country that has not had a major catastrophic event in the last 6 months.  It's like being the last cow in line at the slaughterhouse and seeing all the other cows go down in front of you.
2013-04-18 01:48:23 AM  
1 votes:

markie_farkie: RavenOnyx: My husband's family lives in West. We have not been able to contact anyone. I'm so worried :(

Hoping for the best for them.. Here's some info I scraped off WFAA's website:...

Church of the Open door will be opened for survivors. They are located off of exit 339 in Bellmead.


A Fark ready headline for the day after thread.
2013-04-18 01:42:48 AM  
1 votes:
Quick, everyone go help.
2013-04-18 01:39:00 AM  
1 votes:

RavenOnyx: My husband's family lives in West. We have not been able to contact anyone. I'm so worried :(


Thoughts to them. Hopefully they're ok. Keep trying.
2013-04-18 01:36:54 AM  
1 votes:

RavenOnyx: My husband's family lives in West. We have not been able to contact anyone. I'm so worried :(


I'd check the proximity of their house to the explosion on google maps. Here's hoping that they're well out of the way.
2013-04-18 01:35:47 AM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: There's not really such a thing as "out of the way" in a large-scale industrial accident like this.  The time required to tell you to fark off can be enough time wasted to get people killed.


Especially since they're talking about the possibility of more explosions at the site that big.

Not the time to be running around with good intentions and shiat idea what's going on around you.
2013-04-18 01:31:55 AM  
1 votes:
Then I shall stay at home and self dispatch, if you know what I mean.
2013-04-18 01:22:17 AM  
1 votes:

2xhelix: But what if I'm part of an emergency looting crew?


In all seriousness, this is apparantly becoming a huge problem on the scene right now. They have too many random people, Emergency Responders from other districts who were not dispatched to the scene, and too many "volunteer well doers" to establish scene command and accountability.

Seriously, If you're not dispatched, do not go. You will only endanger yourself and others at this point.

If you want to help and are in the area, contact your local hospitals or red cross and see what they need.
2013-04-18 01:22:10 AM  
1 votes:
Now I know why the Rangers are two games back. No initiative.
2013-04-18 01:21:50 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: Theres such a thing as too much help?


Without an organizational structure, yes.  And it's middle of the night now obviously.  You'd just be in the way.
 
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