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(SanDiegoUnionTribune)   Here's how to take the law into your own hands: Neighbors frustrated with stubborn city engineers put up their own stop signs   (utsandiego.com) divider line 74
    More: Cool, stop signs, Point Loma  
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12791 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2013 at 4:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-18 12:32:19 AM
www.fanpop.com
 
2013-04-18 02:46:43 AM
Messing with signs was a major felony last I heard.
 
2013-04-18 02:57:35 AM
No, subby, this is how to take the law into your own hands:

www.csb-cde.ca.gov
 
2013-04-18 03:00:44 AM
So, I can just ignore all signs in that neighborhood, since I don't know which ones are real and which aren't?  I'll get right on that.
 
2013-04-18 05:10:39 AM
Some asshat put deer crossing signs all along the highways of Wisconsin.  I have yet to see a crossing guard near them.  WTF?
 
2013-04-18 05:14:22 AM
I can completely understand why this happens.

I live in a small "city", on the same block as an elementary school. My home is on a corner, which our local government has decreed must forever be a two-way stop (with signs) as opposed to a four-way stop (like every other intersection within a three-block radius is).

About once a year or so, some yoyo on a cell-phone ends up assuming that there's a stop sign where there isn't. A collision results (one of which, two years ago, resulted in an out-of-control car taking out my backyard fence at a moment I happened to actually BE in my backyard).

Calls to City Hall have gone ignored. The last time we had an accident, about four months ago, I asked the attending police officer what could be done to have the stop-sign situation changed. He said that people had complained over the years, but the town's attitude was "there wouldn't be a problem if people paid attention."

Which is true, I suppose. But the fact is that people don't.

I'm thinking that once we get an injured or dead kid, the situation might be changed. And that WILL happen at some point. Either that, or I'll end up with a car in my living room. I guess we'll see which happens first.
 
2013-04-18 05:21:56 AM
Can we find out who put the sign up and beat them to death with it ?

/ some asshat put up his own stop signs down the road from me resulted in multiple accidents when people slammed on the breaks
 
2013-04-18 05:23:32 AM
i hate stop signs
 
2013-04-18 05:31:57 AM

serial_crusher: So, I can just ignore all signs in that neighborhood, since I don't know which ones are real and which aren't?  I'll get right on that.


Just come to my neighborhood, hell make that nearly any residential neighborhood in Sedalia, Mo.

I've created a map of all the stop signs in the few blocks that surround me. Our town has very few stop signs in the middle of neighborhoods and will place 1 or 2 way stops where the residential roads have slightly higher traffic. That larger circle in the top left is the only 4 way stop that is close to me. People regularly do 40-50mph down my road, they also don't look or slow down when coming up to an intersection within the neighborhoods. If you stop and they see you stop then they think you are giving them the right of way to speed the fark through without yielding.

/I know that last part because I've had a couple close calls when I first moved to town.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-18 05:42:05 AM
I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

img705.imageshack.us
 
2013-04-18 05:49:50 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


As best as I can dig up, a lack of a sticker does not make it an unofficial sign. The sticker being there, does mean it is put up by the town or state, but the absence of one means nothing, since a sticker can just fall off.
 
2013-04-18 05:56:36 AM
Well, since you get to put up your own signs as you see fit, I guess they won't mind if I slap up a few of my own.

Of course, the speed limit is too low, so a few 70mph signs should do the trick to improve traffic flow. Hey, people got to get to where they are going... right? Maybe a few "douchebag" crossing signs too... I'm still working on the design for that one.
 
2013-04-18 06:00:52 AM
Yeah...I can't see the local law enforcement having a problem with that at all......

CSB:
"Vandals" used to get silly with a stop sign near my house. First it was painted green, and the word GO was written in white lettering. Then around Halloween, it turned into a pumpkin. Christmas time it was painted with a decorative wreath. This went on for about a year, each time the city put up a brand new sign a few days later. It stopped shortly after a fake camera was put up on a power pole nearby.
 
2013-04-18 06:02:05 AM
So... if a driver stops at a real sign and, believing that there is a real sign to stop cross traffic, begins to pull away and gets t-boned by someone that blows through a fake sign... the first driver is responsible... right?

Congratulations "sign putting up people," yer gonna get us all killed.
 
2013-04-18 06:47:43 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


I always thought those stickers were "anti-thft" stickers.  So that those particular signs don't end up in someone's man-cave.

/Not that I know anything about that sort of business or anything...
 
2013-04-18 06:55:51 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


It is true.  And it happened in my neighborhood a few years ago.  I don't know who put up the signs.  But they had them at every single cross street for a 1/4 mile stretch on one road, that happens to be loaded with kids.  They were there for a few months.  Then they suddenly disappeared.

Around here though, it's more common for people to erect speed bumps to slow the traffic.
 
2013-04-18 06:58:37 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


True where I live. A traffic sign needs the special sticker to be enforcable.. Do-it-youself signs have long been popular here, especially to control on-street parking.
 
2013-04-18 06:59:53 AM
It starts with Stop signs... then they progress to speed bumps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_qq56LVDXk
 
2013-04-18 07:06:05 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


I can tell you that I've never paid attention to traffic signs in private parking lots (malls, ect.). I've run through stop signs at the mall with a cop sitting in his car on numerous occasions, and nothing happened.

It's my understanding that there isn't much they can do on private property.
 
2013-04-18 07:10:02 AM
thechive.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-18 07:13:08 AM
After I saw the "fake stop signs" image, I started looking for the sticker.  And I did start to notice that the signs in residential neighborhoods didn't have the sticker, and ones on larger roads did.  Still not going to risk the ticket.  Where are the Police Officers, traffic Lawyers, etc?  You guys crop up in so many other threads.  Anyone know for sure the law on this?  Knowing the HOA from the neighborhood I left in NoVA, it wouldn't surprise me to learn they could just vote in some fake signs.

/though speed bumps were more popular.
 
2013-04-18 07:17:44 AM

wambu: Do-it-youself signs have long been popular here, especially to control on-street parking.


Where do you live where it's legal to put up signs on public roads?
 
2013-04-18 07:18:21 AM
i.imgur.com

Approves
 
2013-04-18 07:19:05 AM
People just solving problems in a logical way instead of running around in bureaucratic circles?  Well i never!

/10 years, mandatory minimum for the lot of you!
 
2013-04-18 07:19:55 AM

profplump: Where do you live where it's legal to put up signs on public roads?


In America, things are only illegal if you get caught and successfully prosecuted.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 07:21:05 AM
Both were blessed by a city process that allowed the local community planning group and Councilman Kevin Faulconer to overrule the determination of civil engineers.

That would be illegal in my state, but it's still standard practice and the state is afraid to enforce the law.

In my immediate area the rule is fairly simple: every four way stop is unenforceable. When I travel I guess whether the stop sign is real or fake. Seeing an all way stop at every intersection is a good sign that they are all fake.
 
2013-04-18 07:21:23 AM
That's... pretty much perfectly legal on non-public roads, so far as I know.  A lot of subdivisions aren't under city or county responsibility to begin with, things like stop signs, speed bumps, etc are placed by the equivalent of HOAs and there's no legal requirement beyond basic common sense (stop signs have to be at intersections, etc).

You can get ticketed for not stopping at an intersection that's unsigned, by the way, just in case anyone's taking the "if this sticker isn't there you can contest tickets" thing literally.  Common sense is actually legally binding when you're operating a two-ton steel projectile that goes 30 to 60 mph.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 07:29:21 AM
The city grades the intersections on a point scale, with 20 points being the minimum for an all-way stop sign. Both intersections scored 11 points, short of the requirement.

San Diego's stop sign point scale is heavily biased in favor of stop signs. A city engineer in my area would use it to justify all way stops when the intersection didn't come close to meeting national standards.
 
2013-04-18 07:30:39 AM

profplump: wambu: Do-it-youself signs have long been popular here, especially to control on-street parking.

Where do you live where it's legal to put up signs on public roads?


Didn't say it was legal, just popular.
 
2013-04-18 07:33:48 AM
Well that's why they have traffic engineers that get paid money to see which signs are appropriate. If they say no stop sign then that means the traffic flow and the design of the street doesn't warrant a stop sign.

Signs on private property aren't binding either. That includes business and residential.
 
2013-04-18 07:34:13 AM

Jim_Callahan: That's... pretty much perfectly legal on non-public roads, so far as I know.  A lot of subdivisions aren't under city or county responsibility to begin with, things like stop signs, speed bumps, etc are placed by the equivalent of HOAs and there's no legal requirement beyond basic common sense (stop signs have to be at intersections, etc).

You can get ticketed for not stopping at an intersection that's unsigned, by the way, just in case anyone's taking the "if this sticker isn't there you can contest tickets" thing literally.  Common sense is actually legally binding when you're operating a two-ton steel projectile that goes 30 to 60 mph.


Your car can only do 60?  Time to upgrade, brother.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 07:40:23 AM
Signs on private property aren't binding either.

Depends on the state and circumstances. In my state the vast majority of private signs are decorative but property owners can get a permit to make speed limit signs enforceable. In a few states authorities can post signs against the will of the property owner on property open to the public. In Florida a private development can contract with the sheriff's department to enforce signs, but those signs must meet state standards. I enjoyed a story about a private development in one of the midwest states that didn't think through the consequences of posting a low speed limit; it was legally enforceable and residents who disobeyed their low-for-the-children speed limit got tickets.
 
2013-04-18 07:46:07 AM

durbnpoisn: It is true. And it happened in my neighborhood a few years ago. I don't know who put up the signs. But they had them at every single cross street for a 1/4 mile stretch on one road, that happens to be loaded with kids. They were there for a few months. Then they suddenly disappeared.

Around here though, it's more common for people to erect speed bumps to slow the traffic.


This is very common.  When I was studying transportation engineering, we had a number of city give a talk about this phenomenon.

They had this kind of push frequently.  Their solution was to work with the local police to do some data analysis.  When it was next brought up at city council, it turned out that a shockingly high percentage of the speeding tickets issued in the neighborhood had been given to people who lived there (including a number of the folks who were pushing for speed bumps/stopsigns).

Placing stop signs and speed bumps is often counter-productive.  You end up with people (who live in the neighborhood) performing short drag races from sign to sign.  Average speed is lower, but people in a hurry maintain higher top speeds with aggressive braking and acceleration.

Better ways to reduce speeds are: curve the roads slightly so that people are constantly turning, and reduce lane and shoulder width.  Unfortunately both of these solutions have their own drawbacks (especially lane reduction), but they are still orders of magnitude better than amateurs demanding stop-signs and speedbumps.
 
2013-04-18 07:49:00 AM

GardenWeasel: [i.imgur.com image 328x349]

Approves


ecx.images-amazon.com

Likewise.
 
2013-04-18 07:49:24 AM
As a traffic engineer I can tell you.all to sit back and wait on the follow up story. Because someone is going to have a wreck there and then being the sue happy country we are. They are going to sue the people that put it up and the city that let it stay there. The city I work for gets people that want to sue because a sign was an inch too low, signs not being visible even though they are right out in the open, and one woman even tried to claim our parking meter was making her let to work and caused her firing.
 
2013-04-18 07:53:02 AM
See that there, you don't need government tax dollars for road signs. Maybe these private citizens can put up all the signs from now on.
 
2013-04-18 07:54:09 AM

WhiskeyBoy: After I saw the "fake stop signs" image, I started looking for the sticker.  And I did start to notice that the signs in residential neighborhoods didn't have the sticker, and ones on larger roads did.  Still not going to risk the ticket.  Where are the Police Officers, traffic Lawyers, etc?  You guys crop up in so many other threads.  Anyone know for sure the law on this?  Knowing the HOA from the neighborhood I left in NoVA, it wouldn't surprise me to learn they could just vote in some fake signs.

/though speed bumps were more popular.


NoVA SCotiA?
 
2013-04-18 07:58:35 AM
Before you rush to congratulate these enterprising individuals, you might want to take a drive through that neighborhood. It's not hard for me to imagine this was the work of busybody soccer moms who want their snot-nosed children to be able to play in the street with impunity. We've all been the victim of hypersensitive traffic regulation. There are at least ten stoplights within a mile of my house that should just be flashing yellow/red lights, certainly at least after 9PM (or at very least between midnight and 6AM).
 
2013-04-18 08:01:50 AM
I don't know why Americans are obsessed with signs and stop signs.

My wife's home town in Argentina is a city of about 600,000.  A large percentage of the intersections have no lights or stop signs... works pretty well with a good deal of traffic.
 
2013-04-18 08:03:51 AM
Looks like a three way intersection to me.  No way did it actually need a stop sign, except maybe that people don't ever yield at a yield sign.  Stop signs in general are used so that blame in case of an accident can be easily assigned and it's just poor planning to use them to control speed.

There is no need to come to a complete stop unless traffic is coming.  That rule is some bullshiat.  We need a different sign for 'Jersey Rolling'.  Maybe a big comma on a regular red octagonal sign.

Speed humps, not bumps.  And not that many.

I'm lewismarktwo and I want your vote.
 
2013-04-18 08:04:39 AM
Awesome idea.  I think I want to put these up every 100 feet all through the I-5 corridor!  Since we no longer need to listen to those pesky traffic engineers, I'll just go ahead and do it.
 
2013-04-18 08:05:22 AM

The WindowLicker: Better ways to reduce speeds are: curve the roads slightly so that people are constantly turning, and reduce lane and shoulder width. Unfortunately both of these solutions have their own drawbacks (especially lane reduction), but they are still orders of magnitude better than amateurs demanding stop-signs and speedbumps.


You sir make too much sense and should no longer post on FARK.

/I would prefer to read your newsletter
 
2013-04-18 08:05:44 AM
Also, all new intersections will be roundabouts.
 
2013-04-18 08:08:54 AM

lewismarktwo: Also, all new intersections will be roundabouts.


Oh, God no! We've got those in our area, and the percentage of people who don't understand how they work is breathtaking.
 
2013-04-18 08:10:07 AM

markfara: lewismarktwo: Also, all new intersections will be roundabouts.

Oh, God no! We've got those in our area, and the percentage of people who don't understand how they work is breathtaking.


fark em.
 
2013-04-18 08:10:16 AM

Yes this is dog: As best as I can dig up, a lack of a sticker does not make it an unofficial sign. The sticker being there, does mean it is put up by the town or state, but the absence of one means nothing, since a sticker can just fall off.


Also, traffic court is going to adjudicate based on what a reasonable person would have done when encountering what by all appearances from the front seems to be an authorized traffic sign.

If it looks like a stop sign, you gotta stop at it.
 
2013-04-18 08:11:15 AM

lewismarktwo: Also, all new intersections will be roundabouts.


Heavens to Ermintrude!
 
2013-04-18 08:21:38 AM

SuperDuper28: Well that's why they have traffic engineers that get paid money to see which signs are appropriate.


Well, HAD traffic engineers get paid money, when the roads were first planned.

How often do they go back and re-evaluate signage needs based on evolving traffic patterns? Once in ten years maybe?
 
2013-04-18 08:27:17 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
Alright, so look at this now. I put two extra stop signs, now there's four stop signs, so no cars can go.

Frank, you just created a 4-way intersection. If anything, you made this intersection safer!
 
2013-04-18 08:33:15 AM

Tenatra: Just come to my neighborhood, hell make that nearly any residential neighborhood in Sedalia, Mo.


I've been there.  I see no reason to go back.
 
2013-04-18 08:39:33 AM
Google clearly supports traffic laws that are less restrictive.


i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-18 08:50:50 AM
All I can think of is the "Why the fork not" story from a year or so ago....
 
2013-04-18 08:53:42 AM
 
2013-04-18 08:56:39 AM

MugzyBrown: I don't know why Americans are obsessed with signs and stop signs.

My wife's home town in Argentina is a city of about 600,000.  A large percentage of the intersections have no lights or stop signs... works pretty well with a good deal of traffic.


Once you've driven in any country other than the USA, you suddenly realize how grossly inefficient intersections are in the US.  Both with lights and stop signs.

Traffic doesn't flow in the US, it sits and waits at lights for no one.  Or it stops 30 cars on the main drag to let 1 guy from the cross street in.  People in other countries drive responsive to the other cars around them.  People in the US drive oblivious to the other cars around them, but responsive to the traffic signals.

Take for instance left hand turns at signals in Germany.  Dedicated left-hand turn signals are almost non-existent.  Why? Cause they're grossly inefficient.  Instead, when there are small gaps in oncoming traffic, people make the left-hand turn (and don't dilly dally when doing it).  However, there is no screeching of tires or horn blowing from the oncoming traffic.  The oncoming traffic merely slows down giving the guy enough time to make the left hand turn. Why? Cause it's expected.  But if you tried that in the US there's a 90% chance you'd get T-boned cause the oncoming traffic doesn't expect you to squeeze in a turn, or just isn't paying attention to you altogether.
 
2013-04-18 09:38:25 AM
Stupidly "helpful" people strike again.
 
2013-04-18 09:48:05 AM
I live on the corner of a sorta weird intersection, the yield sign on the right turn west needs to be changed to a stop sign, they also need to put in a begin two way sign across the street, i see people driving down the wrong side of that street every single day.
 
2013-04-18 10:27:28 AM

serial_crusher: So, I can just ignore all signs in that neighborhood, since I don't know which ones are real and which aren't?  I'll get right on that.


This is actually closer to the truth than you think.

People (usually "for the children!" Types) think that stop signs are magical devices that cause drivers to obey speed limits and drive safely. The problem is that when stop signs are installed in places where they aren't warranted, people tend to ignore them, and the reduced impact of the signs carries over to other signs, even ones that are warranted.

People try to use stop signs to make drivers slow down, but unless the stop sign meets strict engineering criteria, it actually results in even worse driver behavior (rolling through stops, speeding between stop signs out f frustration, ignoring well-placed stop signs, etc...)

TL;DR - stop signs have a very specific purpose, and when used for other purposes tend to actually make a bad situation worse.
 
2013-04-18 10:34:39 AM

SuperDuper28: Well that's why they have traffic engineers that get paid money to see which signs are appropriate. If they say no stop sign then that means the traffic flow and the design of the street doesn't warrant a stop sign.

Signs on private property aren't binding either. That includes business and residential.


Think of the children! Somebody's kid is going to get killed unless a magical red sign is out up! You monster
 
2013-04-18 10:42:44 AM

durbnpoisn: WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]

It is true.  And it happened in my neighborhood a few years ago.  I don't know who put up the signs.  But they had them at every single cross street for a 1/4 mile stretch on one road, that happens to be loaded with kids.  They were there for a few months.  Then they suddenly disappeared.

Around here though, it's more common for people to erect speed bumps to slow the traffic.


I prefer spikes.
 
2013-04-18 12:06:49 PM

italie: Yeah...I can't see the local law enforcement having a problem with that at all......

CSB:
"Vandals" used to get silly with a stop sign near my house. First it was painted green, and the word GO was written in white lettering. Then around Halloween, it turned into a pumpkin. Christmas time it was painted with a decorative wreath. This went on for about a year, each time the city put up a brand new sign a few days later. It stopped shortly after a fake camera was put up on a power pole nearby.


My friends and I swiped a sign that read "Slow Children at Play."

/punctuation, it matters
//buddy still has it 13 years later
 
2013-04-18 12:08:37 PM
faos.imageg.net

Some helicopter mom in my neighborhood keeps putting one of these goddamn things in the MIDDLE OF THE FARKING STREET...it's not a road I normally travel, but if it were I don't know if I could resist the temptation to plow right over the stupid thing...
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 12:25:54 PM
Loaf's Tray

There are at least two of those within a mile of me, almost always hiding in front of a parked car where it is invisible except for maybe a trace of yellow corner. I hope for a chance to run one over. No luck yet.
 
2013-04-18 12:49:01 PM
Forget putting up signs.... I'll put up a toll both and make some cash.
 
2013-04-18 01:40:37 PM
I know in Maryland signs on private property are binding. If you run a stop sign on mall property and cause an accident youre in trouble. This happend when I was a kid and a guy hurt a bunch of people because he was too busy to stop and said the stop sign was not legal yada yada. The law spanked him good when they brought up the statute that it was.

In my neighborhood we had a state rep, on his street there were speed bumps, none on any other street though.
 
2013-04-18 01:51:39 PM

Loaf's Tray: [faos.imageg.net image 500x500]

Some helicopter mom in my neighborhood keeps putting one of these goddamn things in the MIDDLE OF THE FARKING STREET...it's not a road I normally travel, but if it were I don't know if I could resist the temptation to plow right over the stupid thing...


One of my friends used to live at the end of a long cul de sac and his neighbors were that type.  I'd come barreling in doing a whole 25 mph and they would yell at me to slow down while making the accompanying hand gestures.  This is a very wide strait residential street with no obstructions on the side of the road or anywhere a kid might stumble from.

One time they're having a party or something and they have like 30 farking people gingerly walking down the middle of the road.  I slow down a bit and cover the brake and this one asshat tries to prove a point by jumping in front of my car.  They thing was I didn't even have to stop or slow down and just drove around him at speed.  The look on his face was priceless.

Well, the HOA somehow got in a tizzy about people 'speeding', so my friend asked me to go slow to appease his neighbortards.  Next time I drove down that road I slowed to a crawl.  Guess what happened?  The copter moms gave me dirty looks for driving too slow and complained about that, thinking I must want to kiddiddle their children.  Why aren't these people ever inside?

Meanwhile the posted limit is 25mph, what I had been doing before.  Some people.
 
2013-04-18 02:11:34 PM

wingnut396: Tenatra: Just come to my neighborhood, hell make that nearly any residential neighborhood in Sedalia, Mo.

I've been there.  I see no reason to go back.


Missouri State Fair is the only reason people come here. I like how some of the historic downtown has been preserved (as well as some of the larger homes from the early 1900s) but that's all we got going for us. I'm going to flee sometime within the year but not sure exactly where I want to move to yet.
 
TKM
2013-04-18 02:14:34 PM
It is a profoundly wealthy neighborhood, lots of soccer mom entitlement nonsense.
 
2013-04-18 02:30:40 PM
Im going to say this once. Having been a small town elected official. Stop signs like traffic lights are designed to regulate the flow of traffic and access to roads NOT  to get asshats to slow down.  Look the people in TFA did the right thing by going to the local government but  jebus you cannot have every interesection in a town be a four way stop that is just stupid. If there are a lot of accidents or  schools or  parks then sure because you need to provide for pededstrians and you can make exceptions if the traffic doesn't warrant this.  If you really feel the need to slow down traffic consider traffic circles or speed bumps but stop making things worse by putting up stupid stop signs where they are not needed.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 02:47:35 PM
Thrakkorzog

Some people set up voluntary tolls on public roads to raise money for charity. I have seen that done on Main Street in Lee, Massachusetts and on NY route 22A in the Catskills. They don't use a proper toll booth with a gate.


groppet

The law of my state, and probably of most states, says you can still be considered at fault for running an unenforceable stop sign and crashing into somebody who expected to have right of way. At fault means financially liable, possibly guilty of reckless driving, but not guilty of running a stop sign.
 
2013-04-18 03:14:48 PM

zamboni: Well, since you get to put up your own signs as you see fit, I guess they won't mind if I slap up a few of my own.

Of course, the speed limit is too low, so a few 70mph signs should do the trick to improve traffic flow. Hey, people got to get to where they are going... right? Maybe a few "douchebag" crossing signs too... I'm still working on the design for that one.


In a douchebag crossing, the car has the right of way and the pedestrian should learn to move.
 
2013-04-18 03:33:10 PM

ZAZ: Some people set up voluntary tolls on public roads


They do that around here too, but the difference is we call it panhandling and it's illegal.
 
2013-04-18 03:52:20 PM

zamboni: Of course, the speed limit is too low, so a few 70mph signs should do the trick to improve traffic flow.


Someone has painted one of our 30mph signs to 3000mph. Sadly, no one attempted to do ~Mach 4.
 
2013-04-18 08:20:38 PM

Tenatra: zamboni: Of course, the speed limit is too low, so a few 70mph signs should do the trick to improve traffic flow.

Someone has painted one of our 30mph signs to 3000mph. Sadly, no one attempted to do ~Mach 4.


Negative, Maverick... the pattern is full!

Goddammit!!!
 
2013-04-19 02:46:57 PM

groppet: I know in Maryland signs on private property are binding. If you run a stop sign on mall property and cause an accident youre in trouble. This happend when I was a kid and a guy hurt a bunch of people because he was too busy to stop and said the stop sign was not legal yada yada. The law spanked him good when they brought up the statute that it was.

In my neighborhood we had a state rep, on his street there were speed bumps, none on any other street though.


If you fail to yield, you break the law in any of the 50 states, whether you're legally required to stop or not. An illegal sign doesn't give you a green light to plow through anyone coming the other way.

nickerj1: Take for instance left hand turns at signals in Germany. Dedicated left-hand turn signals are almost non-existent. Why? Cause they're grossly inefficient. Instead, when there are small gaps in oncoming traffic, people make the left-hand turn (and don't dilly dally when doing it). However, there is no screeching of tires or horn blowing from the oncoming traffic. The oncoming traffic merely slows down giving the guy enough time to make the left hand turn. Why? Cause it's expected. But if you tried that in the US there's a 90% chance you'd get T-boned cause the oncoming traffic doesn't expect you to squeeze in a turn, or just isn't paying attention to you altogether.


You couldn't remove the protected left from many US city traffic intersections, the grid system and heavy traffic across 3+ lanes makes it much too dangerous, especially with more than one turn lane. However, you could get rid of the odd notion that protected lefts have to exist in a vacuum, rather than allowing unprotected lefts while the main road is green, and only switching to protected left if there are still cars over the sensor when the through traffic turns red. And of course, changing the timings based on the time of day, which so many old hidebound traffic engineers resolutely refuse to put any time or effort on.

Traffic engineering is a weird discipline. Fads come and go multiple times over the years. I grew up in a city that did a good job of allowing traffic through, but Bay Area transplants started causing accidents so they've been removing that. Moved to one with purely protected lefts for one lane of traffic. Just got back from Las Vegas, where they shrug and allow unprotected lefts against 5 lanes of Las Vegas Blvd on some intersections, although they have their own weird traffic patterns as soon as you leave the strip.
 
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