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(SanDiegoUnionTribune)   Here's how to take the law into your own hands: Neighbors frustrated with stubborn city engineers put up their own stop signs   (utsandiego.com) divider line 74
    More: Cool, stop signs, Point Loma  
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12784 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2013 at 4:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-18 12:32:19 AM
www.fanpop.com
 
2013-04-18 02:46:43 AM
Messing with signs was a major felony last I heard.
 
2013-04-18 02:57:35 AM
No, subby, this is how to take the law into your own hands:

www.csb-cde.ca.gov
 
2013-04-18 03:00:44 AM
So, I can just ignore all signs in that neighborhood, since I don't know which ones are real and which aren't?  I'll get right on that.
 
2013-04-18 05:10:39 AM
Some asshat put deer crossing signs all along the highways of Wisconsin.  I have yet to see a crossing guard near them.  WTF?
 
2013-04-18 05:14:22 AM
I can completely understand why this happens.

I live in a small "city", on the same block as an elementary school. My home is on a corner, which our local government has decreed must forever be a two-way stop (with signs) as opposed to a four-way stop (like every other intersection within a three-block radius is).

About once a year or so, some yoyo on a cell-phone ends up assuming that there's a stop sign where there isn't. A collision results (one of which, two years ago, resulted in an out-of-control car taking out my backyard fence at a moment I happened to actually BE in my backyard).

Calls to City Hall have gone ignored. The last time we had an accident, about four months ago, I asked the attending police officer what could be done to have the stop-sign situation changed. He said that people had complained over the years, but the town's attitude was "there wouldn't be a problem if people paid attention."

Which is true, I suppose. But the fact is that people don't.

I'm thinking that once we get an injured or dead kid, the situation might be changed. And that WILL happen at some point. Either that, or I'll end up with a car in my living room. I guess we'll see which happens first.
 
2013-04-18 05:21:56 AM
Can we find out who put the sign up and beat them to death with it ?

/ some asshat put up his own stop signs down the road from me resulted in multiple accidents when people slammed on the breaks
 
2013-04-18 05:23:32 AM
i hate stop signs
 
2013-04-18 05:31:57 AM

serial_crusher: So, I can just ignore all signs in that neighborhood, since I don't know which ones are real and which aren't?  I'll get right on that.


Just come to my neighborhood, hell make that nearly any residential neighborhood in Sedalia, Mo.

I've created a map of all the stop signs in the few blocks that surround me. Our town has very few stop signs in the middle of neighborhoods and will place 1 or 2 way stops where the residential roads have slightly higher traffic. That larger circle in the top left is the only 4 way stop that is close to me. People regularly do 40-50mph down my road, they also don't look or slow down when coming up to an intersection within the neighborhoods. If you stop and they see you stop then they think you are giving them the right of way to speed the fark through without yielding.

/I know that last part because I've had a couple close calls when I first moved to town.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-18 05:42:05 AM
I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

img705.imageshack.us
 
2013-04-18 05:49:50 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


As best as I can dig up, a lack of a sticker does not make it an unofficial sign. The sticker being there, does mean it is put up by the town or state, but the absence of one means nothing, since a sticker can just fall off.
 
2013-04-18 05:56:36 AM
Well, since you get to put up your own signs as you see fit, I guess they won't mind if I slap up a few of my own.

Of course, the speed limit is too low, so a few 70mph signs should do the trick to improve traffic flow. Hey, people got to get to where they are going... right? Maybe a few "douchebag" crossing signs too... I'm still working on the design for that one.
 
2013-04-18 06:00:52 AM
Yeah...I can't see the local law enforcement having a problem with that at all......

CSB:
"Vandals" used to get silly with a stop sign near my house. First it was painted green, and the word GO was written in white lettering. Then around Halloween, it turned into a pumpkin. Christmas time it was painted with a decorative wreath. This went on for about a year, each time the city put up a brand new sign a few days later. It stopped shortly after a fake camera was put up on a power pole nearby.
 
2013-04-18 06:02:05 AM
So... if a driver stops at a real sign and, believing that there is a real sign to stop cross traffic, begins to pull away and gets t-boned by someone that blows through a fake sign... the first driver is responsible... right?

Congratulations "sign putting up people," yer gonna get us all killed.
 
2013-04-18 06:47:43 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


I always thought those stickers were "anti-thft" stickers.  So that those particular signs don't end up in someone's man-cave.

/Not that I know anything about that sort of business or anything...
 
2013-04-18 06:55:51 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


It is true.  And it happened in my neighborhood a few years ago.  I don't know who put up the signs.  But they had them at every single cross street for a 1/4 mile stretch on one road, that happens to be loaded with kids.  They were there for a few months.  Then they suddenly disappeared.

Around here though, it's more common for people to erect speed bumps to slow the traffic.
 
2013-04-18 06:58:37 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


True where I live. A traffic sign needs the special sticker to be enforcable.. Do-it-youself signs have long been popular here, especially to control on-street parking.
 
2013-04-18 06:59:53 AM
It starts with Stop signs... then they progress to speed bumps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_qq56LVDXk
 
2013-04-18 07:06:05 AM

WhiskeyBoy: I've seen this image in a few places around the internet.  Not sure if true.

[img705.imageshack.us image 750x408]


I can tell you that I've never paid attention to traffic signs in private parking lots (malls, ect.). I've run through stop signs at the mall with a cop sitting in his car on numerous occasions, and nothing happened.

It's my understanding that there isn't much they can do on private property.
 
2013-04-18 07:10:02 AM
thechive.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-18 07:13:08 AM
After I saw the "fake stop signs" image, I started looking for the sticker.  And I did start to notice that the signs in residential neighborhoods didn't have the sticker, and ones on larger roads did.  Still not going to risk the ticket.  Where are the Police Officers, traffic Lawyers, etc?  You guys crop up in so many other threads.  Anyone know for sure the law on this?  Knowing the HOA from the neighborhood I left in NoVA, it wouldn't surprise me to learn they could just vote in some fake signs.

/though speed bumps were more popular.
 
2013-04-18 07:17:44 AM

wambu: Do-it-youself signs have long been popular here, especially to control on-street parking.


Where do you live where it's legal to put up signs on public roads?
 
2013-04-18 07:18:21 AM
i.imgur.com

Approves
 
2013-04-18 07:19:05 AM
People just solving problems in a logical way instead of running around in bureaucratic circles?  Well i never!

/10 years, mandatory minimum for the lot of you!
 
2013-04-18 07:19:55 AM

profplump: Where do you live where it's legal to put up signs on public roads?


In America, things are only illegal if you get caught and successfully prosecuted.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 07:21:05 AM
Both were blessed by a city process that allowed the local community planning group and Councilman Kevin Faulconer to overrule the determination of civil engineers.

That would be illegal in my state, but it's still standard practice and the state is afraid to enforce the law.

In my immediate area the rule is fairly simple: every four way stop is unenforceable. When I travel I guess whether the stop sign is real or fake. Seeing an all way stop at every intersection is a good sign that they are all fake.
 
2013-04-18 07:21:23 AM
That's... pretty much perfectly legal on non-public roads, so far as I know.  A lot of subdivisions aren't under city or county responsibility to begin with, things like stop signs, speed bumps, etc are placed by the equivalent of HOAs and there's no legal requirement beyond basic common sense (stop signs have to be at intersections, etc).

You can get ticketed for not stopping at an intersection that's unsigned, by the way, just in case anyone's taking the "if this sticker isn't there you can contest tickets" thing literally.  Common sense is actually legally binding when you're operating a two-ton steel projectile that goes 30 to 60 mph.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 07:29:21 AM
The city grades the intersections on a point scale, with 20 points being the minimum for an all-way stop sign. Both intersections scored 11 points, short of the requirement.

San Diego's stop sign point scale is heavily biased in favor of stop signs. A city engineer in my area would use it to justify all way stops when the intersection didn't come close to meeting national standards.
 
2013-04-18 07:30:39 AM

profplump: wambu: Do-it-youself signs have long been popular here, especially to control on-street parking.

Where do you live where it's legal to put up signs on public roads?


Didn't say it was legal, just popular.
 
2013-04-18 07:33:48 AM
Well that's why they have traffic engineers that get paid money to see which signs are appropriate. If they say no stop sign then that means the traffic flow and the design of the street doesn't warrant a stop sign.

Signs on private property aren't binding either. That includes business and residential.
 
2013-04-18 07:34:13 AM

Jim_Callahan: That's... pretty much perfectly legal on non-public roads, so far as I know.  A lot of subdivisions aren't under city or county responsibility to begin with, things like stop signs, speed bumps, etc are placed by the equivalent of HOAs and there's no legal requirement beyond basic common sense (stop signs have to be at intersections, etc).

You can get ticketed for not stopping at an intersection that's unsigned, by the way, just in case anyone's taking the "if this sticker isn't there you can contest tickets" thing literally.  Common sense is actually legally binding when you're operating a two-ton steel projectile that goes 30 to 60 mph.


Your car can only do 60?  Time to upgrade, brother.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-18 07:40:23 AM
Signs on private property aren't binding either.

Depends on the state and circumstances. In my state the vast majority of private signs are decorative but property owners can get a permit to make speed limit signs enforceable. In a few states authorities can post signs against the will of the property owner on property open to the public. In Florida a private development can contract with the sheriff's department to enforce signs, but those signs must meet state standards. I enjoyed a story about a private development in one of the midwest states that didn't think through the consequences of posting a low speed limit; it was legally enforceable and residents who disobeyed their low-for-the-children speed limit got tickets.
 
2013-04-18 07:46:07 AM

durbnpoisn: It is true. And it happened in my neighborhood a few years ago. I don't know who put up the signs. But they had them at every single cross street for a 1/4 mile stretch on one road, that happens to be loaded with kids. They were there for a few months. Then they suddenly disappeared.

Around here though, it's more common for people to erect speed bumps to slow the traffic.


This is very common.  When I was studying transportation engineering, we had a number of city give a talk about this phenomenon.

They had this kind of push frequently.  Their solution was to work with the local police to do some data analysis.  When it was next brought up at city council, it turned out that a shockingly high percentage of the speeding tickets issued in the neighborhood had been given to people who lived there (including a number of the folks who were pushing for speed bumps/stopsigns).

Placing stop signs and speed bumps is often counter-productive.  You end up with people (who live in the neighborhood) performing short drag races from sign to sign.  Average speed is lower, but people in a hurry maintain higher top speeds with aggressive braking and acceleration.

Better ways to reduce speeds are: curve the roads slightly so that people are constantly turning, and reduce lane and shoulder width.  Unfortunately both of these solutions have their own drawbacks (especially lane reduction), but they are still orders of magnitude better than amateurs demanding stop-signs and speedbumps.
 
2013-04-18 07:49:00 AM

GardenWeasel: [i.imgur.com image 328x349]

Approves


ecx.images-amazon.com

Likewise.
 
2013-04-18 07:49:24 AM
As a traffic engineer I can tell you.all to sit back and wait on the follow up story. Because someone is going to have a wreck there and then being the sue happy country we are. They are going to sue the people that put it up and the city that let it stay there. The city I work for gets people that want to sue because a sign was an inch too low, signs not being visible even though they are right out in the open, and one woman even tried to claim our parking meter was making her let to work and caused her firing.
 
2013-04-18 07:53:02 AM
See that there, you don't need government tax dollars for road signs. Maybe these private citizens can put up all the signs from now on.
 
2013-04-18 07:54:09 AM

WhiskeyBoy: After I saw the "fake stop signs" image, I started looking for the sticker.  And I did start to notice that the signs in residential neighborhoods didn't have the sticker, and ones on larger roads did.  Still not going to risk the ticket.  Where are the Police Officers, traffic Lawyers, etc?  You guys crop up in so many other threads.  Anyone know for sure the law on this?  Knowing the HOA from the neighborhood I left in NoVA, it wouldn't surprise me to learn they could just vote in some fake signs.

/though speed bumps were more popular.


NoVA SCotiA?
 
2013-04-18 07:58:35 AM
Before you rush to congratulate these enterprising individuals, you might want to take a drive through that neighborhood. It's not hard for me to imagine this was the work of busybody soccer moms who want their snot-nosed children to be able to play in the street with impunity. We've all been the victim of hypersensitive traffic regulation. There are at least ten stoplights within a mile of my house that should just be flashing yellow/red lights, certainly at least after 9PM (or at very least between midnight and 6AM).
 
2013-04-18 08:01:50 AM
I don't know why Americans are obsessed with signs and stop signs.

My wife's home town in Argentina is a city of about 600,000.  A large percentage of the intersections have no lights or stop signs... works pretty well with a good deal of traffic.
 
2013-04-18 08:03:51 AM
Looks like a three way intersection to me.  No way did it actually need a stop sign, except maybe that people don't ever yield at a yield sign.  Stop signs in general are used so that blame in case of an accident can be easily assigned and it's just poor planning to use them to control speed.

There is no need to come to a complete stop unless traffic is coming.  That rule is some bullshiat.  We need a different sign for 'Jersey Rolling'.  Maybe a big comma on a regular red octagonal sign.

Speed humps, not bumps.  And not that many.

I'm lewismarktwo and I want your vote.
 
2013-04-18 08:04:39 AM
Awesome idea.  I think I want to put these up every 100 feet all through the I-5 corridor!  Since we no longer need to listen to those pesky traffic engineers, I'll just go ahead and do it.
 
2013-04-18 08:05:22 AM

The WindowLicker: Better ways to reduce speeds are: curve the roads slightly so that people are constantly turning, and reduce lane and shoulder width. Unfortunately both of these solutions have their own drawbacks (especially lane reduction), but they are still orders of magnitude better than amateurs demanding stop-signs and speedbumps.


You sir make too much sense and should no longer post on FARK.

/I would prefer to read your newsletter
 
2013-04-18 08:05:44 AM
Also, all new intersections will be roundabouts.
 
2013-04-18 08:08:54 AM

lewismarktwo: Also, all new intersections will be roundabouts.


Oh, God no! We've got those in our area, and the percentage of people who don't understand how they work is breathtaking.
 
2013-04-18 08:10:07 AM

markfara: lewismarktwo: Also, all new intersections will be roundabouts.

Oh, God no! We've got those in our area, and the percentage of people who don't understand how they work is breathtaking.


fark em.
 
2013-04-18 08:10:16 AM

Yes this is dog: As best as I can dig up, a lack of a sticker does not make it an unofficial sign. The sticker being there, does mean it is put up by the town or state, but the absence of one means nothing, since a sticker can just fall off.


Also, traffic court is going to adjudicate based on what a reasonable person would have done when encountering what by all appearances from the front seems to be an authorized traffic sign.

If it looks like a stop sign, you gotta stop at it.
 
2013-04-18 08:11:15 AM

lewismarktwo: Also, all new intersections will be roundabouts.


Heavens to Ermintrude!
 
2013-04-18 08:21:38 AM

SuperDuper28: Well that's why they have traffic engineers that get paid money to see which signs are appropriate.


Well, HAD traffic engineers get paid money, when the roads were first planned.

How often do they go back and re-evaluate signage needs based on evolving traffic patterns? Once in ten years maybe?
 
2013-04-18 08:27:17 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
Alright, so look at this now. I put two extra stop signs, now there's four stop signs, so no cars can go.

Frank, you just created a 4-way intersection. If anything, you made this intersection safer!
 
2013-04-18 08:33:15 AM

Tenatra: Just come to my neighborhood, hell make that nearly any residential neighborhood in Sedalia, Mo.


I've been there.  I see no reason to go back.
 
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