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(BBC)   Good: Scientists develop new battery that is a fraction of the size of current batteries and can be charged 1000 times quicker, potentially revolutionizing electric cars and mobile computing devices. Bad: They may be explosive   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 48
    More: Interesting, anodes, cathodes, electrolytes, lithium ions, manganese, polystyrene, cross-sections, lattices  
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2746 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Apr 2013 at 5:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



48 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-04-17 04:34:07 PM
Have not RTA yet, but all of the current battery technologies are explosive. It's a matter of how likely it will happen.
 
2013-04-17 04:39:57 PM
That's why I'm sticking with good old fashioned gasoline for my car.
 
2013-04-17 05:23:05 PM

Relatively Obscure: That's why I'm sticking with good old fashioned gasoline for my car.


Hell ya! Under pressure no less, for better Vroom!
 
2013-04-17 05:25:23 PM
OF COURSE THEY MIGHT BE EXPLOSIVE.

It's a high amount of energy stored in a small volume.
 
2013-04-17 05:26:06 PM

whither_apophis: Relatively Obscure: That's why I'm sticking with good old fashioned gasoline for my car.

Hell ya! Under pressure no less, for better Vroom!


Does it come with electrolytes?
 
2013-04-17 05:26:51 PM
Seems like a plus to me.
 
2013-04-17 05:29:28 PM
"You could replace your car battery with one of our batteries and it would be 10 times smaller, or 10 times more powerful. With that in mind you could jumpstart a car with the battery in your cell phone."

I always wanted to keep a car battery next to my balls.
 
2013-04-17 05:31:09 PM
Excellent, my number of greenlits now matches the combination to my luggage.
 
2013-04-17 05:31:26 PM
Well men, we are doomed.  Vibrators that run longer and harder spells the death of us all.
 
2013-04-17 05:35:01 PM

you have pee hands: "You could replace your car battery with one of our batteries and it would be 10 times smaller, or 10 times more powerful. With that in mind you could jumpstart a car with the battery in your cell phone."

I always wanted to keep a car battery next to my balls.


That can be arranged
 
2013-04-17 05:35:02 PM
So are the lithium-ion batteries we use now.
 
2013-04-17 05:35:21 PM
And they'll only be sold in packs of three.
 
2013-04-17 05:35:34 PM
Wait wait wait, hold the fark on.  You're tell me that if you have something that can store a lot of energy, there's a chance that that energy could be released in a rapid enough fashion that it might be dangerous?

Well fark me.  Who woulda thunk?
 
2013-04-17 05:40:56 PM
Maybe they can be made to explode slowly.
 
2013-04-17 05:42:25 PM
Even if they can make the battery stable and non-shorting under ordinary use, what about when it gets dented or pierced? Or some guy on a plane decides to hammer it with his shoe in the bathroom? I think there's going to be an upper limit on how much energy batteries are allowed to have, otherwise we're producing potential hand grenades and calling them power sources.
 
2013-04-17 05:43:45 PM
Speaker-to-animals approves of this development.
 
2013-04-17 05:45:33 PM

jjorsett: Even if they can make the battery stable and non-shorting under ordinary use, what about when it gets dented or pierced? Or some guy on a plane decides to hammer it with his shoe in the bathroom? I think there's going to be an upper limit on how much energy batteries are allowed to have, otherwise we're producing potential hand grenades and calling them power sources.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-04-17 05:52:53 PM

katghoti: Well men, we are doomed.  Vibrators that run longer and harder spells the death of us all.


Nah, somebody still has to do the surprise buttsecs.
 
2013-04-17 05:53:13 PM
i will wait for the "little man" rechargeable ones myself.
now they have a kick!!
 
2013-04-17 05:54:44 PM
They'll figure it out--something about necessities mothering inventions.
 
2013-04-17 06:01:21 PM
www.win-vector.com


Run for your... uh... walk for your lives!


/hot, like a super slow explosion
 
2013-04-17 06:22:54 PM
www.awn.com

What? I couldn't here you over the sound of my fuel cell having issues.
 
2013-04-17 06:24:19 PM

SN1987a goes boom: whither_apophis: Relatively Obscure: That's why I'm sticking with good old fashioned gasoline for my car.

Hell ya! Under pressure no less, for better Vroom!

Does it come with electrolytes?


Electro lytes? I got purple LED on my rims.
 
jvl
2013-04-17 06:35:29 PM
For everyone who didn't read good:

No this doesn't make your laptop battery smaller.

Yes this means you can recharge your battery really quickly.

Yes this means you can discharge your battery really really quickly when hilarity ensues.
 
2013-04-17 07:14:01 PM
If they can make this work with a solid electrolyte, they'll have something major. Otherwise, BOOM!
 
2013-04-17 07:18:45 PM
So we're on the same path, basically?
What's the new hazard here?
 
2013-04-17 07:27:26 PM

jjorsett: Even if they can make the battery stable and non-shorting under ordinary use, what about when it gets dented or pierced? Or some guy on a plane decides to hammer it with his shoe in the bathroom? I think there's going to be an upper limit on how much energy batteries are allowed to have, otherwise we're producing potential hand grenades and calling them power sources.


The dangers of batteries exploding have little to do with the electrical energy stored and very much to do with the fact that they use explosive compounds. The actual electrical energy doesn't have much to do with it (LiON batteries, for instance, can catch fire even when not charged).

In actuality, the only danger to storing electrical energy is that someone (or thing) gets electrocuted and/or the spark causes something flammable to catch fire. Otherwise, it's really quite innocuous except for the idiot who pounds on the battery (and one could say he deserved it).
 
2013-04-17 08:05:45 PM
Is no one claiming this is 3D printed yet? Come on guys. I thought you had standards.
 
2013-04-17 09:18:34 PM
Finally, I can have a working phaser. Set phasers to stun for the left lane slowpoke. Bzzzzzzzzzzttttttttttttt.
 
2013-04-17 09:33:07 PM

whither_apophis: Electro lytes? I got purple LED on my rims.


Nothing like subjecting the sidewalk pedestrians to a random epilepsy check.
 
2013-04-17 09:46:38 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Is no one claiming this is 3D printed yet? Come on guys. I thought you had standards.

I know you were all over this thread
http://www.fark.com/comments/7700226/NASA-is-returning-to-glory-days -b y-resurrecting-F-1-Saturn-V-Moon-Rocket-engine
so why didn't you troll about the 3D printing (ahem, "additive manufacturing") in that story?
 
2013-04-17 09:55:55 PM

you have pee hands: "I always wanted to keep a car battery next to my balls.


A potentially explosive car battery at that. And yes, by explode they mean rapidly deflagrate. Which doesn't make it any better vis-a-vis the testicle situation.

Energy density of dynamite =   5 MJ/kg
Energy density of lithium-ion battery = 0.36-0.95 MJ/kg

Yeah, having ten times the current energy density is going to be 'exciting'.
 
2013-04-17 10:01:25 PM

imgod2u: jjorsett: Even if they can make the battery stable and non-shorting under ordinary use, what about when it gets dented or pierced? Or some guy on a plane decides to hammer it with his shoe in the bathroom? I think there's going to be an upper limit on how much energy batteries are allowed to have, otherwise we're producing potential hand grenades and calling them power sources.

The dangers of batteries exploding have little to do with the electrical energy stored and very much to do with the fact that they use explosive compounds. The actual electrical energy doesn't have much to do with it (LiON batteries, for instance, can catch fire even when not charged).

In actuality, the only danger to storing electrical energy is that someone (or thing) gets electrocuted and/or the spark causes something flammable to catch fire. Otherwise, it's really quite innocuous except for the idiot who pounds on the battery (and one could say he deserved it).


Not quite. Generate enough short circuit current and the copper conductors can heat up fast enough to explode.
 
2013-04-17 10:07:22 PM

rdyb: Quantum Apostrophe: Is no one claiming this is 3D printed yet? Come on guys. I thought you had standards.
I know you were all over this thread
http://www.fark.com/comments/7700226/NASA-is-returning-to-glory-days -b y-resurrecting-F-1-Saturn-V-Moon-Rocket-engine
so why didn't you troll about the 3D printing (ahem, "additive manufacturing") in that story?


I have my ups and downs.

Danack: you have pee hands: "I always wanted to keep a car battery next to my balls.

A potentially explosive car battery at that. And yes, by explode they mean rapidly deflagrate. Which doesn't make it any better vis-a-vis the testicle situation.

Energy density of dynamite =   5 MJ/kg
Energy density of lithium-ion battery = 0.36-0.95 MJ/kg

Yeah, having ten times the current energy density is going to be 'exciting'.


I would assume it also depends how quickly you can release that energy.
 
2013-04-17 10:41:33 PM
Put some thorium in it.

That'll keep it from exploding.
 
2013-04-17 11:02:57 PM
Thank god gas is not explosive, except for my gas, which is sometimes explosive.
 
2013-04-17 11:45:18 PM
...and will later be determined to be not profitable enough to bring to market, for the same reasons that we don't have 100 year light bulbs, or engines that run on water.
 
2013-04-17 11:51:44 PM

stiletto2: ...and will later be determined to be not profitable enough to bring to market, for the same reasons that we don't have 100 year light bulbs, or engines that run on water.


I hope you're trolling.
 
2013-04-18 12:19:10 AM

2chris2: stiletto2: ...and will later be determined to be not profitable enough to bring to market, for the same reasons that we don't have 100 year light bulbs, or engines that run on water.

I hope you're trolling.




Do you want people walking around with high power lasers?
 
2013-04-18 06:17:27 AM

Felgraf: OF COURSE THEY MIGHT BE EXPLOSIVE.

It's a high amount of energy stored in a small volume.


This, duh.
 
2013-04-18 11:14:32 AM

Felgraf: OF COURSE THEY MIGHT BE EXPLOSIVE.

It's a high amount of energy stored in a small volume.


Exactly.  Once the energy density reaches the point that a failure of one part can damage the adjoining parts enough to cause failure you have a low grade explosive.  The chemistry is irrelevant to this.

Danack: you have pee hands: "I always wanted to keep a car battery next to my balls.

A potentially explosive car battery at that. And yes, by explode they mean rapidly deflagrate. Which doesn't make it any better vis-a-vis the testicle situation.

Energy density of dynamite =   5 MJ/kg
Energy density of lithium-ion battery = 0.36-0.95 MJ/kg

Yeah, having ten times the current energy density is going to be 'exciting'.


Thanks for the numbers.
 
2013-04-18 11:23:13 AM

Loren: Felgraf: OF COURSE THEY MIGHT BE EXPLOSIVE.

It's a high amount of energy stored in a small volume.

Exactly.  Once the energy density reaches the point that a failure of one part can damage the adjoining parts enough to cause failure you have a low grade explosive.  The chemistry is irrelevant to this.

Danack: you have pee hands: "I always wanted to keep a car battery next to my balls.

A potentially explosive car battery at that. And yes, by explode they mean rapidly deflagrate. Which doesn't make it any better vis-a-vis the testicle situation.

Energy density of dynamite =   5 MJ/kg
Energy density of lithium-ion battery = 0.36-0.95 MJ/kg

Yeah, having ten times the current energy density is going to be 'exciting'.

Thanks for the numbers.



Make sure you get a vacuum.
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-18 11:24:15 AM
Bad: They may be explosive

Picky, picky, picky.
 
2013-04-18 11:48:16 AM
I researcher at Washington State University already developed similar technology using carbon nano-tubes as the filaments between electrodes. Go Cougs.
 
2013-04-18 11:49:00 AM
a*
 
2013-04-18 06:07:41 PM

Danack: you have pee hands: "I always wanted to keep a car battery next to my balls.

A potentially explosive car battery at that. And yes, by explode they mean rapidly deflagrate. Which doesn't make it any better vis-a-vis the testicle situation.

Energy density of dynamite =   5 MJ/kg
Energy density of lithium-ion battery = 0.36-0.95 MJ/kg

Yeah, having ten times the current energy density is going to be 'exciting'.


the batteries we use in the product we make can charge/discharge at 25x their normal capacity without problem. that is, fyi, a current of about 12 amps at 4v.

if you short the terminals you can get currents somewhere in the 50-60A range depending on the battery(based on internal resistance which is in milliohms). with a rise time in microseconds.

yeah increasing the discharge rate(because you increased the charge rate) 400x seems like a brilliant idea.
 
2013-04-18 06:15:09 PM
actually now that i think about it, creating batteries that could safely deliver kiloamps of power with microsecond rise times...

small-scale railguns could actually be viable.

i approve of the technology and would really like a sample for research purposes.
 
2013-04-18 10:17:14 PM
OMG!  Batteries that can explode!?!  We can't have that!  Outlaw all batteries with the potential to explode!

/do it for the children
//so they'll go play outside again.
 
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