If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Atlantic)   In a masterpiece of goalpost-moving, columnist opines that the Gosnell case is the anti-abortion movement's fault because they didn't badger his clinic enough   (theatlantic.com) divider line 50
    More: Interesting, Kermit Gosnell, Dr. Kermit Gosnell, RH Reality Check, NARAL Pro-Choice America, Amanda Marcotte, Nexis, gag orders, intelligence  
•       •       •

1534 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Apr 2013 at 9:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-04-17 09:48:14 AM
6 votes:
The anti-abortionists drove the procedure out of hospitals and into back alleyways.  This is the result of all their hard work.
2013-04-17 09:58:39 AM
4 votes:

vernonFL: Supposedly abortion clinics don't have to meet standards that other medical offices do - for example I heard that Dentists are regulated more than abortion clinics as far as cleanliness standards and such. I don't know if that last statement is even true. But that is what my anti-abortion friends have told me.


Your anti-choice friends lied to you. Pennsylvania has very strict laws.
2013-04-17 09:29:19 AM
4 votes:
The article does make an interesting point: how can there be people camped out there with the stated intent of shutting the place down not have noticed anything?

The most likely answer, to me, is that these protestors had no real interaction with the women going there other than screaming "MURDERER WHORE!" at them.  And the women who had been victimized by this true monster didn't feel like they could get any real help from them.
2013-04-17 10:12:15 AM
3 votes:

part of the problem: Why is it so hard for liberals to just say this is a horrible and monstrous event that should never have been allowed to occur nevermind what you think of abortion?


Which has been pointed out many times in this thread and others on the subject.

part of the problem: The simple answer is that liberals are incapable of thinking ideologically impire thoughts. Or any other kind of thoughts for that matter.


Oh you're just a troll.  Nevermind.
2013-04-17 12:37:48 PM
2 votes:
All of my pro-life friends are surprised that I think this guy is a monster because I'm pro-choice. That will tell you how one dimensional their grasp of this issue is. You either murder babies or you don't.
2013-04-17 11:44:54 AM
2 votes:

odinsposse: Pro-life folk don't ferret out safety violations in clinics. There is no conspiracy to "hide" clinics by Pro-choice folks. That's nonsense.


Actually, Pro-Life people DO use the safety and inspection angle to close clinics. That is how most of the clinics in Kansas were closed.

And the Pro-Choice side isn't 'hiding' bad clinics. They just aren't looking for them and exposing them for what they are.
2013-04-17 11:18:30 AM
2 votes:

skullkrusher: Wessoman: skullkrusher: Wessoman: Government is designed for the safety and welfare of the people. HERE is where I want more government oversight. To make sure the doctor you go to doesn't kill you. To make sure the car I drive won't fall apart. To make sure the food you eat won't poison you. To make sure the company I work for isn't polluting our natural resources. Its not to tell me how to think, or who I can and can't vote for, or what should be illegal because of some magical sky god and his followers.

all sounds reasonable to me. However, you do enjoy assumptions, dontcha?

As do you, mister Slippery Slope hyperbole.

What slippery slope?


DERP. Whenever I mention government oversight, you launched straight into hyperbole about needing overseers for overseers. Please, at least attempt to post properly and DO keep up.

And with that, I am out. Girlfriends coming over so I need to get ready. And that's why I am pro-choice. Because I like getting naked with ladies, but I don't like making babies with them. Keep Abortion safe and legal, and I'm out.
2013-04-17 10:36:54 AM
2 votes:

Lord_Baull: Take a good look pro-lifers. This is what happens when you remove the oversight and safety from the procedure.

Abortion won't magically disappear if it's outlawed anymore than marijuana has.


Agreed. Unlike what the mouthbreather brigade might say, Liberals, Moderates, and genuine Conservatives (Such as myself) all want Abortion to be legal and SAFE. Making abortion illegal would mean an exponential increase in this very situation.

This is and remains a healthcare issue. It is a genuine barometer of just how bad Healthcare in this country really is. The fact that it's an abortion clinic is why you are hearing about it, but I am sure if you peruse your local paper the last three years, you can find a story of an unsanitary healthcare provider shut down. Heck, not so long ago when I was in Nashville, there was this story about this place improperly disposing of dead bodies. To me, that's far worse, and I wonder just how many places slip through the cracks...
2013-04-17 10:16:08 AM
2 votes:
The people who have politicized this make me sick. Besides, it's their side's fault this happened.
2013-04-17 10:12:51 AM
2 votes:

Serious Black: And as far as [Edel Finnegan] is concerned, every abortion clinic is a house of horrors, full stop, meaning that Gosnell's was no different: "What's happening at this abortion facility, it's happening at every abortion facility."

Getting an abortion at eight weeks, when the fetus is just on the verge of detectability with an ultrasound, is exactly the same as giving birth to a live baby and snipping its spinal cord. Got it.


According to extreme "pro-life" advocates, an unintentional spontaneous expulsion of an unknowingly recently fertilized egg triggered by use of aspirin taken to relieve the discomfort of a minor headache is logically equivalent to giving birth to a live baby and snipping its spinal cord. Extreme "pro-life" advocates lack any reason or rationality.
2013-04-17 10:01:47 AM
2 votes:

Fluorescent Testicle: Well, one could certainly argue that the anti-abortion movement helped him out by over-regulating all the other clinics in the area into closure, forcing women to attend his horrific death shop instead. Of course, that doesn't make him any less guilty or disgusting, before any trolls jump on me for "Defending" his oxygen-thieving ass.


I think this, also.  When you badger all the conscientious doctors who would have performed abortions in a safe, sterile, professional manner but for being called murderers, getting death threats and having threats of their places of business bombed, you run the risk of being left with less caring, less careful, less professional doctors doing abortions instead.  Make abortions completely illegal, and this guys clinic is going to look like Sloan-Kettering.
2013-04-17 10:00:58 AM
2 votes:
This is totally the fault of people who disagree with my politics and I desperately need to make that point clear so that I can feel validated.
2013-04-17 09:50:50 AM
2 votes:

YixilTesiphon: vernonFL: Another detail I find disturbing is that some of the workers at the clinic complained to the state board about it - and nothing was done.

That's the real story here - the stunning incompetence of the Pennsylvania government seems to be demonstrated several times a year.

If this is going on in Philadelphia, what the hell is happening in the rest of the state?


I for one am shocked at this unprecedented example of Pennsylvania public employees deliberately turning a blind eye toward systematic violent crimes against children.
2013-04-17 09:50:37 AM
2 votes:

Serious Black: And as far as [Edel Finnegan] is concerned, every abortion clinic is a house of horrors, full stop, meaning that Gosnell's was no different: "What's happening at this abortion facility, it's happening at every abortion facility."

Getting an abortion at eight weeks, when the fetus is just on the verge of detectability with an ultrasound, is exactly the same as giving birth to a live baby and snipping its spinal cord. Got it.


If you're pro-life yeah, that's exactly it. Taking the morning after pill is no different than grabbing a toddler and bashing its head against the wall.

And because that's insane the moderates have generally won out on the abortion issue.
2013-04-17 09:34:55 AM
2 votes:
Another detail I find disturbing is that some of the workers at the clinic complained to the state board about it - and nothing was done.
2013-04-17 05:53:18 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: I'm sorry, were you expecting a respectful response to your "blood god" post, you pants pissing farkwit?


skullkrusher: who said that were? Yeah, I get annoyed when either A) dishonest shiatbags mischaracterize what I say or B) mouthbreathing farkwits presume to talk to me.

Column A or Column B? Perhaps they're not mutually exclusive either?


lennavan: Wanna hear something awkward? I bet skullkrusher agrees with everything you wrote. He's not compromising with her right to choose. He's saying he's not going to help her pay for it if it's optional. There is a huge difference there.


Actually yes. There is not much difference between Skullkrusher and I's innate philosophies. Since Skullkrusher throws a Honey Boo Boo like tantrum when people presume to speak for him, I will wager and guess that he sees Abortion as a personal responsibility issue. You see, I would guess that if a woman were to become pregnant, and then choose not to have the child, then he, as a taxpayer, should not in anyway subsidize the abortion because it was her personal responsibility that she got knocked up in the first place, and why should Skullkrusher, or anybody else for that matter, pay for the abortion. That is a reasoned and fair analysis.

Where I differ is that seeing women of color, or the state of education in some regions of the Republic, I find that very often there is not the access of contraception for women who choose to exercize their sexuality. Furthermore, there is a definite societal drag and fiscal cost for having unwanted children born into society. To me, the costs of an unwanted child would more than mitigate the subsidization of the occasional non-medical Abortion. I mean, since we are paying for F-22's and tax breaks for the wealthy, I think it's a wiser usage of societal resources.

So basically, the moral and philosophical arguments against abortion still come from misuse of religion and superstition. While I am not Atheist, I do not factor philosophy into the Abortion argument.

So yes, I understand the differences, Lennavan, and I disagree with Skullkrusher on that key point. But he's easily wound up, and I am enjoying see him turn red for a bit. And yes, I am a Troll jerk.
2013-04-17 05:53:17 PM
1 votes:
I do blame the anti-abortion movement. Gosnell had unlicensed staff. Why go to an unlicensed doctor? Because he was cheap. Poor women are not allowed to use any public funding for abortions, so they have to save up the money on their own. That means they get abortions later, and they try to get cheaper abortions. In other words, they go to back-alley butchers, just as they did before abortion was legal. Anti-abortion activists have driven more reputable doctors out of business, and they try to shut down or cut off funding for Planned Parenthood (whether the clinics provide abortions or not).

If the anti-abortion crowd has its way, there will be more Gosnells out there, not fewer. Add that to the fact that so many of these so-called anti-abortion people are also anti-birth control and anti-sex education, and they are virtually building a whole army of Gosnells. Gosnell is a monster, no doubt about that. But the anti-abortion movement is the Doctor Frankenstein that built him.
2013-04-17 05:12:57 PM
1 votes:
skullkrusher:
no, I just have philosophical and spiritual issues with abortion. I'm not very religious but I do have theistic leanings and I have moral issues with abortion when not meant to save a person's life. Thank you for showing your true, douchebag colors though, Mr Genuine Conservative.
You're not a terribly bright guy. You might want to tone it down.

So your philosophical and spiritual issues with Abortion have an increased fiscal cost for society. I am sorry, but funding women's healthcare, and the occasional abortion, makes financial sense for society. Your philosophical beliefs don't. Especially since you don't exactly have a Uterus and really shouldn't have a say in the matter.

And nice Ad Hominem there, as well as a projection too.
2013-04-17 05:11:45 PM
1 votes:

Wessoman: Why, because your blood God might turn your wife into salt?


Wait, so he's pro-choice, wants to pay for free contraceptives for women, is happy to chip in for medically necessary abortions but draws the line at paying for optional ones so naturally that makes him a bible thumper?

Holy fark dude, it must be a trip living in BinaryWorld.
2013-04-17 03:10:52 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: If you want to elect to have an abortion which isn't medically necessary, I am not going to stop you but I don't want to be a part of it.

That's fine.

Just understand that you WILL be a part of it one way or another. You're on the hook for paying for that kid's education, sure, but "unwanted" kids are more often than not going to need school lunch help, and their families will more likely be taking advantage of programs like TANF, and SNAP (and, while the kid's gestating, WIC). And even with all that, what are the odds the kid is well-nourished? Assuming the kid's getting his vitamins, what are the odds they live in a stable family environment (especially considering we know mom already didn't want the kid)?

Not to mention the third-, fourth- and fifth- (...nth-)order problems - a kid growing up in the conditions above is more likely to not finish HS (and even if so, less than likely to attend or even graduate college), more likely to be involved in crime (and if it's drug- or sex-crime, hooray more expensive incarceration with all the health problems), and in general less likely to net-contribute to society.

Not to say it can't be done, or that "unwanted" kids will necessarily end up homeless junkies sucking dick for lines of Velveeta, but wouldn't you rather pay for an infinitesimally small part of a $100 abortion than all of that?

No.


I would probably pay for the small price for the abortion than the larger price for an incarcerated loser kid that wasn't conceived intentionally. But that's me the Conservative, always thinking about dollars and sense.

(Back.)
2013-04-17 03:01:33 PM
1 votes:

lennavan: Dr Dreidel: but wouldn't you rather pay for an infinitesimally small part of a $100 abortion than all of that?

No.


OK then. At least you've made an informed choice.

Hopefully, it also means you'd allow others that same choice, but (and I'm not assuming you're all about this) you can no longer pretend opposition is based on anything but your own morality. Which, again, is perfectly OK. I myself am "anti-"abortion in the sense that I don't think should get that far (contraception and Plan B should handle 90%ish of what would become abortions) - my own moral reasons.

However, if someone doesn't want to be a parent, I also think there's a certain morality in allowing them that choice (or at least, the morality of not bringing in an "unwanted" kid to more than likely suffer for the sins of the parents). Morality is a balancing act anyway.

// that last 10% is some laughably small number of "accidental pregnancies" where both parties used contraception as directed and Plan B failed to work as directed
// and the 90/10 split is not math-based, so it might be some other breakdown
2013-04-17 02:55:35 PM
1 votes:

shortymac: the average woman getting an abortion isn't a young white middle-class co-ed anymore, it's a poor minority woman who typically already has a kid.


Non-Hispanic white women account for 36% of abortions, non-Hispanic black women for 30%, Hispanic women for 25% and women of other races for 9%.[6]

About 61% of abortions are obtained by women who have one or more children. [6]

Link
2013-04-17 02:25:24 PM
1 votes:

relcec: Fluorescent Testicle: vernonFL: Supposedly abortion clinics don't have to meet standards that other medical offices do - for example I heard that Dentists are regulated more than abortion clinics as far as cleanliness standards and such. I don't know if that last statement is even true. But that is what my anti-abortion friends have told me.

Your anti-choice friends lied to you. Pennsylvania has very strict laws.

THIS is amazing.
that you assholes have the balls to still complain about overzealous regulation in this specific geographic region AFTER we find out this dude has been crushing hundreds if not thousands of babies spinal cords and then stacking babies like cord-wood to putrefy while generally maintaining the hygiene at the facility more common in a high school locker room than a medical facility and that the operator had all the discernment for proper technical qualifications in his staff of a fly by night carnival operator which directly led to the death of a young poor women?
after all this shiat you helped create you have the balls to keep complaining, for the one time in your life, of over-regulation of something?


Wait if all that was legal why is he on trial?
2013-04-17 02:20:55 PM
1 votes:

relcec: skullkrusher: madgonad: skullkrusher: are you joking? This motherfarker (allegedly) killed babies. He (allegedly) killed a women. He ran a "medical" practice under the most abhorrent conditions. What else does he have to do to be called a "monster"?

Actually, he performed a D&X.... poorly. Because he was a lousy doctor. A D&X is a procedure done in some third trimester abortions (which he shouldn't even be doing). It involves damaging the brain/severing the spinal column during extraction (while still in the mother). The reason for this is while a 24-28 week fetus will die very shortly after being removed, it doesn't happen immediately and the procedure was designed to guarantee that fetus would not be alive outside of the mother at all. This farkstick apparently did an intact extraction and didn't terminate the fetus until the end. It is a vague area of law, but technically abortions are allowed when fetal life signs are terminated in utero while terminating them outside of the mother can be considered infanticide.

arbitrariness of the law notwithstanding, that is what he's accused of. He performed illegal 3rd trimester abortions. He had stacks of aborted fetuses in farking cat food containers. I think you have the bar for monstrosity set a bit high

a monster? he's practically a hero!
see skull, you just way over analyze this. you need to see things as pure black and white right and wrong like pro choicers do around here.
they have a very simple test, in the grand scheme of things do I agree with what he was doing? well you like having late term abortions available right?
then the's charges are overblown, and the people who would like to string him up are really to blame for not being diligent enough.
if the answer is yes and the man is being attacked you must downplay his alleged crimes and attempt to defend what he did in any way possible while also attacking the people that disagree with you.


dude, there's no one praising this guy. One example of someone who has an incredibly high tolerance for monstrosity but no one cheering this guy
2013-04-17 02:17:45 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: YoungLochinvar: Yeah... read that list more closely. It's the same list I had; based on the website (for the clinic) the first three listings are the exact same place (despite different listed addresses), two others are simply larger organizations with no actual clinics near Philly.

The Philly clinics are all different. The S Jersey Woman's Center has 2 addresses but I don't know if that means 2 locations where services are provided. There's another unique clinic in there too within 10 miles. So at least 5, maybe 6 places to go

YoungLochinvar: Funding, as a potential barrier, is absolutely relevant. My understanding was a number of Gosnell's client were there because they couldn't afford legitimate places, which is a problem that public funding solves...

Look at the fees for the S Jersey Women's Clinic. Far less than what Doctor Demento charged

YoungLochinvar: I mean, if you wanna make abortions more difficult to obtain that's your prerogative - I'm just not sure why you think it'll be any more effective than, say, the war on drugs. Market demands are usually met, legally or otherwise, and this is the type of stuff that happens on the black market for abortion...

abortion should be safe and legal (to a point with restrictions). I am opposed to them from a personal perspective but if you want to get one, by all means. Just don't expect me to pay for it unless it is necessary to save your life or the result of rape.


relcec: skullkrusher: madgonad: skullkrusher: are you joking? This motherfarker (allegedly) killed babies. He (allegedly) killed a women. He ran a "medical" practice under the most abhorrent conditions. What else does he have to do to be called a "monster"?

Actually, he performed a D&X.... poorly. Because he was a lousy doctor. A D&X is a procedure done in some third trimester abortions (which he shouldn't even be doing). It involves damaging the brain/severing the spinal column during extraction (while still in the mother). The reason for this is while a 24-28 week fetus will die very shortly after being removed, it doesn't happen immediately and the procedure was designed to guarantee that fetus would not be alive outside of the mother at all. This farkstick apparently did an intact extraction and didn't terminate the fetus until the end. It is a vague area of law, but technically abortions are allowed when fetal life signs are terminated in utero while terminating them outside of the mother can be considered infanticide.

arbitrariness of the law notwithstanding, that is what he's accused of. He performed illegal 3rd trimester abortions. He had stacks of aborted fetuses in farking cat food containers. I think you have the bar for monstrosity set a bit high

a monster? he's practically a hero!
see skull, you just way over analyze this. you need to see things as pure black and white right and wrong like pro choicers do around here.
they have a very simple test, in the grand scheme of things do I agree with what he was doing? well you like having late term abortions available right?
then the's charges are overblown, and the people who would like to string him up are really to blame for not being diligent enough.
if the answer is yes and the man is being attacked you must downplay his alleged crimes and attempt to defend what he did in any way possible while also attacking the people that disagree with you.


Everyone wants him strung up, you goddamned moron.
2013-04-17 01:05:31 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: are you joking? This motherfarker (allegedly) killed babies. He (allegedly) killed a women. He ran a "medical" practice under the most abhorrent conditions. What else does he have to do to be called a "monster"?


Actually, he performed a D&X.... poorly. Because he was a lousy doctor. A D&X is a procedure done in some third trimester abortions (which he shouldn't even be doing). It involves damaging the brain/severing the spinal column during extraction (while still in the mother). The reason for this is while a 24-28 week fetus will die very shortly after being removed, it doesn't happen immediately and the procedure was designed to guarantee that fetus would not be alive outside of the mother at all. This farkstick apparently did an intact extraction and didn't terminate the fetus until the end. It is a vague area of law, but technically abortions are allowed when fetal life signs are terminated in utero while terminating them outside of the mother can be considered infanticide.
2013-04-17 12:49:03 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: you made a blanket statement about suburban housewives. I don't think this dick operated under the radar because of bias against black kids as these anti-abortion activists like to stand in front of clinics with signs and rosaries rather than actually taking steps to close clinics like Kermit the Butcher's.


No, suburban housewives are willing to stand in front of clinics in reasonably safe neighborhoods. They will leave their cloistered suburbs for mixed neighborhoods or clinics near a university where there are still plenty of white folks walking around. But this clinic was in a very poor neighborhood and all the people around it were minorities. That is WAY outside of their comfort zone.

This asshole operated under the radar because operated in an area and on a population that our society just ignores. It takes a travesty like this to drag it out into the sunlight.

Oh, and I don't think the doctor is really a monster. He runs a bad business, doesn't pay for maintenance, and doesn't follow the damn rules. He is the medical equivalent of a factory owner that allows terrible conditions that result in contamination, injury, and death. Hardly anything new, but still morally offensive.
2013-04-17 12:16:46 PM
1 votes:
Gosnell is like the Free Staters/Open Carry/Ahurrr-15 mental midgets that insist on waving their gundicks in everyone's face after some reject carries out another senseless massacre.

He is going to get your rights taken away by shocking and scaring the populace. Step on these people yourself or suffer the consequences.
2013-04-17 12:11:00 PM
1 votes:

vernonFL: Another detail I find disturbing is that some of the workers at the clinic complained to the state board about it - and nothing was done.


The clinic hadn't been inspected in something like six years.

This is another case of Conservatives breaking government (in this case, allowing medical clinics to self-police) and then declaring that government doesn't work.

/His clinic was three blocks from my parents house
2013-04-17 12:03:58 PM
1 votes:
Should have been on the last post, but effing thing kicked back my image...
i467.photobucket.com
2013-04-17 11:46:49 AM
1 votes:

madgonad: skullkrusher: madgonad: This is just another fine example of what happens when society becomes polarized over an issue. Both sides only see what they want to see and disregard the rest. This scumbag succeeded in hiding fairly well from the Right (possibly because it was a black doctor, serving a black population, in a black neighborhood - suburban housewives aren't quite so butthurt when the babies being aborted aren't white) - and the Left didn't go looking for bad clinics for fear of finding something which would erode support for their cause.

or, more likely, because the anti-abortionists are more content with praying outside of clinics than actually taking practical steps to close them.

We both know that it is a far more complicated issue than that.

Some pro-life people are just focused on babies. They just love babies so much that they can't see how anyone could not want one.
Others are derived from the overall Conservative orthodoxy of pussy control. Women have too many freedoms which have allowed them to do anything they want, gasp, even live their lives outside of the control of a man. Society must shame and punish this behavior at all times.
A fair number are just doing their duty with their church.

On the flip side are too many people that assign no value whatsoever to the genetically unique blastocyst, zygote, or fetus that is living inside the 'mother'. An accidental pregnancy becomes 'a little problem' to solve.

Both sides are wrong - but Roe v Wade is still ahead of us here. The rules in Roe give the woman complete autonomy in deciding in the first trimester, require a doctors concurrence in the second, and requires TWO doctors to agree on medical necessity in the third. Those are really good rules. Not sure why the nation can't just agree that this was a good compromise and move on, but we can't.


There's your problem. The Republican Party is primarily controlled today by staunch conservatives who view compromise as tantamount to backstabbing God and having gay sex with Satan.
2013-04-17 11:41:38 AM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: madgonad: This is just another fine example of what happens when society becomes polarized over an issue. Both sides only see what they want to see and disregard the rest. This scumbag succeeded in hiding fairly well from the Right (possibly because it was a black doctor, serving a black population, in a black neighborhood - suburban housewives aren't quite so butthurt when the babies being aborted aren't white) - and the Left didn't go looking for bad clinics for fear of finding something which would erode support for their cause.

or, more likely, because the anti-abortionists are more content with praying outside of clinics than actually taking practical steps to close them.


We both know that it is a far more complicated issue than that.

Some pro-life people are just focused on babies. They just love babies so much that they can't see how anyone could not want one.
Others are derived from the overall Conservative orthodoxy of pussy control. Women have too many freedoms which have allowed them to do anything they want, gasp, even live their lives outside of the control of a man. Society must shame and punish this behavior at all times.
A fair number are just doing their duty with their church.

On the flip side are too many people that assign no value whatsoever to the genetically unique blastocyst, zygote, or fetus that is living inside the 'mother'. An accidental pregnancy becomes 'a little problem' to solve.

Both sides are wrong - but Roe v Wade is still ahead of us here. The rules in Roe give the woman complete autonomy in deciding in the first trimester, require a doctors concurrence in the second, and requires TWO doctors to agree on medical necessity in the third. Those are really good rules. Not sure why the nation can't just agree that this was a good compromise and move on, but we can't.
2013-04-17 11:35:32 AM
1 votes:

madgonad: This is just another fine example of what happens when society becomes polarized over an issue. Both sides only see what they want to see and disregard the rest. This scumbag succeeded in hiding fairly well from the Right (possibly because it was a black doctor, serving a black population, in a black neighborhood - suburban housewives aren't quite so butthurt when the babies being aborted aren't white) - and the Left didn't go looking for bad clinics for fear of finding something which would erode support for their cause.


Pro-life folk don't ferret out safety violations in clinics. There is no conspiracy to "hide" clinics by Pro-choice folks. That's nonsense.

This really doesn't have anything to do with the abortion issue. That's just why it's getting attention. This is entirely the failure of local medical oversight. There were several complaints and they went unanswered. That's it. There are lots of people trying to spin it into a point about abortion but they're generally failing because it's so clearly a medical oversight issue.
2013-04-17 11:32:19 AM
1 votes:

madgonad: This is just another fine example of what happens when society becomes polarized over an issue. Both sides only see what they want to see and disregard the rest. This scumbag succeeded in hiding fairly well from the Right (possibly because it was a black doctor, serving a black population, in a black neighborhood - suburban housewives aren't quite so butthurt when the babies being aborted aren't white) - and the Left didn't go looking for bad clinics for fear of finding something which would erode support for their cause.


or, more likely, because the anti-abortionists are more content with praying outside of clinics than actually taking practical steps to close them.
2013-04-17 11:32:02 AM
1 votes:

part of the problem: Marcus Aurelius: The anti-abortionists drove the procedure out of hospitals and into back alleyways.  This is the result of all their hard work.

Not accurate.
The clinic model was once believed to be a win for women's rights as it kept abortion out of the control of the hospital industry. Didnt work out so well but facts are facts.

Why is it so hard for liberals to just say this is a horrible and monstrous event that should never have been allowed to occur nevermind what you think of abortion?

The simple answer is that liberals are incapable of thinking ideologically impire thoughts. Or any other kind of thoughts for that matter. Just admit this is sick, politics be dammed.


EVERY liberal ALREADY thinks this, you dumb fark.
2013-04-17 11:27:21 AM
1 votes:
This is just another fine example of what happens when society becomes polarized over an issue. Both sides only see what they want to see and disregard the rest. This scumbag succeeded in hiding fairly well from the Right (possibly because it was a black doctor, serving a black population, in a black neighborhood - suburban housewives aren't quite so butthurt when the babies being aborted aren't white) - and the Left didn't go looking for bad clinics for fear of finding something which would erode support for their cause.
2013-04-17 11:19:01 AM
1 votes:
*clicks on thread

Expects numerous "have to pass it before know what's in it" jokes. Prepares rage.

Reads thread. Everything went better than expected.
2013-04-17 11:06:53 AM
1 votes:

Bloody William: Wessoman: Government is designed for the safety and welfare of the people. HERE is where I want more government oversight. To make sure the doctor you go to doesn't kill you. To make sure the car I drive won't fall apart. To make sure the food you eat won't poison you. To make sure the company I work for isn't polluting our natural resources.

The free market can do that better than any government!


Aaaand the Free Market has given us a serious global warming problem, and GMOs in our food. It actually does hold back technology at times. But it's dumb to say that the Free Market has the answers to all problems. It's like saying God is the answer to everything. It sounds good on paper, but it's laughably impractical in practice.
2013-04-17 11:00:39 AM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: Wessoman: Lord_Baull: skullkrusher:  I'd imagine somewhere there are problems but I don't no how epidemic it is.


If it occurs anywhere, it is a problem.
That's kinda like saying, "The meat I get at my grocery store is okay, so I'm not sure there are any stores selling rancid meat."

Don't make him try and think outside his bubble.

hehe what the fark are you talking about, Mr Genuine Conservative?


Government is designed for the safety and welfare of the people. HERE is where I want more government oversight. To make sure the doctor you go to doesn't kill you. To make sure the car I drive won't fall apart. To make sure the food you eat won't poison you. To make sure the company I work for isn't polluting our natural resources. Its not to tell me how to think, or who I can and can't vote for, or what should be illegal because of some magical sky god and his followers.

So if this clinic was bad, let's take steps to keep this from happening again. End of.
2013-04-17 10:53:49 AM
1 votes:

Lord_Baull: skullkrusher:  I'd imagine somewhere there are problems but I don't no how epidemic it is.


If it occurs anywhere, it is a problem.
That's kinda like saying, "The meat I get at my grocery store is okay, so I'm not sure there are any stores selling rancid meat."


I don't know that it occurs anywhere. I suppose it is likely as no oversight is perfect, I've never seen it and I've never heard anyone I know say they had a disgusting experience at the dentist or gyno outside of the necessary disgustingness of those 2 sorts of visits.

We could have a government overseer in every doctor's office in the country and have an overseer of the overseer to make sure the first isn't on the take and still not eliminate the possibility of it happening.
2013-04-17 10:39:51 AM
1 votes:
While it may be worth the local and national news organizations asking themselves why they didn't cover it, that is itself not news.  They absolutely shouldn't be putting this discussion about their own journalism standards out there as news to the public.  They SHOULD be covering why the state and federal regulatory bodies didn't take care of it.

"NEWS" is about news, not about news organizations.
2013-04-17 10:32:06 AM
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: The anti-abortionists drove the procedure out of hospitals and into back alleyways.  This is the result of all their hard work.


Exactly right. Bloody coat-hangers and dead women are what they apparently wanted, and I suppose it's what they're gonna get.
2013-04-17 10:22:35 AM
1 votes:
Take a good look pro-lifers. This is what happens when you remove the oversight and safety from the procedure.

Abortion won't magically disappear if it's outlawed anymore than marijuana has.
2013-04-17 10:19:01 AM
1 votes:

part of the problem: Why is it so hard for liberals to just say this is a horrible and monstrous event that should never have been allowed to occur nevermind what you think of abortion?

The simple answer is that liberals are incapable of thinking ideologically impire thoughts.



I'm a liberal, and like practically all of us dirty libs I will say that this was a horrible and monstrous event that should never have been allowed to occur.

Have you been around here long? Straw man arguments like that thing you pulled out of your ass about impure thoughts won't get you very far.
2013-04-17 10:12:54 AM
1 votes:

part of the problem: Marcus Aurelius: The anti-abortionists drove the procedure out of hospitals and into back alleyways.  This is the result of all their hard work.

Not accurate.
The clinic model was once believed to be a win for women's rights as it kept abortion out of the control of the hospital industry. Didnt work out so well but facts are facts.

Why is it so hard for liberals to just say this is a horrible and monstrous event that should never have been allowed to occur nevermind what you think of abortion?

The simple answer is that liberals are incapable of thinking ideologically impire thoughts. Or any other kind of thoughts for that matter. Just admit this is sick, politics be dammed.


When liberals start bombing evangelical's churches, harassing preachers' families, standing in front of churches preaching about the evils of their faith, and shooting preachers, then you might have room to talk. Until then, shut the fark up.
2013-04-17 10:10:46 AM
1 votes:

vernonFL: YixilTesiphon: That's the real story here - the stunning incompetence of the Pennsylvania government seems to be demonstrated several times a year.

Supposedly abortion clinics don't have to meet standards that other medical offices do - for example I heard that Dentists are regulated more than abortion clinics as far as cleanliness standards and such.

I don't know if that last statement is even true. But that is what my anti-abortion friends have told me.


Well, for one thing, I doubt there's all that many facilities that specialize in abortions. Most of these are general women's health clinics, that also perform abortions. Most of them aren't non-profit facilities, so they couldn't specialize in giving abortions even if they wanted to, unless every other place where a woman could get an abortion was somehow pushed into not doing those, leaving you the only game in town. It's a lot like with Planned Parenthood, where something like 3% of what they do involves abortions.
2013-04-17 10:03:42 AM
1 votes:

YixilTesiphon: what the hell is happening in the rest of the state?


www.landbin.com

// pic is actually of MN/WI
// there is nothing in PA once you get outside the 4 "cities" (Phila/Pgh/HBurg/Scranton)
2013-04-17 09:49:34 AM
1 votes:

YixilTesiphon: That's the real story here - the stunning incompetence of the Pennsylvania government seems to be demonstrated several times a year.


Supposedly abortion clinics don't have to meet standards that other medical offices do - for example I heard that Dentists are regulated more than abortion clinics as far as cleanliness standards and such.

I don't know if that last statement is even true. But that is what my anti-abortion friends have told me.
2013-04-17 09:49:21 AM
1 votes:
Is this related to the trial that the media is blacking out that I keep hearing about everywhere constantly?
2013-04-17 09:43:02 AM
1 votes:
And as far as [Edel Finnegan] is concerned, every abortion clinic is a house of horrors, full stop, meaning that Gosnell's was no different: "What's happening at this abortion facility, it's happening at every abortion facility."

Getting an abortion at eight weeks, when the fetus is just on the verge of detectability with an ultrasound, is exactly the same as giving birth to a live baby and snipping its spinal cord. Got it.
 
Displayed 50 of 50 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report