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(Space.com)   Headline: Dark Matter may have been seen. Quote from article: "We're not claiming anything"   (space.com) divider line 32
    More: Stupid, dark matter, WIMPs, Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, simulations, American Physical Society, Milky Way Galaxy, atomic nuclei  
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3067 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Apr 2013 at 8:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-17 08:30:54 AM
Scientists tend to be more cautious than journalists in what they claim.
 
2013-04-17 08:32:02 AM
I am generally pro-science and all but they have got into an ambiguous game of just bullshiatting the public because they can get away with it.
 
2013-04-17 08:33:42 AM
So what there really saying is, if this is true, we will have flying cars.
 
2013-04-17 08:37:29 AM
TFA: HINTS of Dark Matter Possibly Seen
Subby: Dark Matter may have been seen

I'd bet i've never seen subby, but i saw a hint that he/she probably doesn't know what a hint may be
 
2013-04-17 08:37:57 AM

berylman: I am generally pro-science and all but they have got into an ambiguous game of just bullshiatting the public because they can get away with it.


You're confusing "science" with "science journalism". Scientists don't bullshiat the public. To their own detriment, they largely fail to engage the public at  all.A scientist claimed that they found a signal that indicates they've found a WIMP, with a 3-sigma level of confidence. That's enough to be interesting to scientists, but isn't nearly enough to claim they've found something.

Science journalists, who know less about science than your average middle schooler, see that and go, "THEY FOUND DARK MATTER!"
 
2013-04-17 08:39:43 AM
"Hints of Dark matter Possibly Seen"

/subby fail
 
2013-04-17 08:40:16 AM
t3knomanser:You're confusing "science" with "science journalism"...Science journalists, who know less about science than your average middle schooler, see that and go, "THEY FOUND DARK MATTER!"

Ha. Right on.
 
2013-04-17 08:45:38 AM
Dr. Johnny Tightlips, PhD
 
2013-04-17 08:45:53 AM

berylman: I am generally pro-science and all but they have got into an ambiguous game of just bullshiatting the public because they can get away with it.


It is more that what ever they say tends to be taken 100% out of context and politicized therefore they are more cautious than they should have to be.

Look at the scientists after the earth quakes in Italy..
 
2013-04-17 08:48:35 AM
i found dark matter in my toilet this morning
so i flushed it
 
2013-04-17 08:49:03 AM
I'm all for research on this. When we figure out how to tap in to dark matter as an applicable energy source for our technology, we'll be jumping stars in no time.
 
2013-04-17 08:53:28 AM
It was dark. They couldn't really see much.
 
2013-04-17 08:54:34 AM
I heard it turned out to be chocolate milk mix....
 
2013-04-17 08:59:46 AM

berylman: I am generally pro-science and all but they have got into an ambiguous game of just bullshiatting the public because they can get away with it.


No, I think they've just been asked to explain something to a public that has no hope of ever understanding it. Sure, a more honest answer may have been, "Look stupid, you won't understand what I'm doing, but maybe someday you'll get a cool gewgaw. So keep giving me money." But it's not "bullshiatting" when they try to translate what they're doing into public-speak. It's just an attempt to treat the public with some respect, and if that seems to spiral into farce, well, it's bound to.
 
2013-04-17 08:59:48 AM

DubtodaIll: I'm all for research on this. When we figure out how to tap in to dark matter as an applicable energy source for our technology, we'll be jumping stars in no time.


Possibly, but dark matter and dark energy are completely unrelated.
 
2013-04-17 09:04:55 AM

ardubz: DubtodaIll: I'm all for research on this. When we figure out how to tap in to dark matter as an applicable energy source for our technology, we'll be jumping stars in no time.

Possibly, but dark matter and dark energy are completely unrelated.


Yeah but we're better at turning matter in to energy than just harnessing already active energy. And dark matter and energy are racially related.
 
2013-04-17 09:06:06 AM

berylman: I am generally pro-science and all but they have got into an ambiguous game of just bullshiatting the public because they can get away with it.


Just to add to the above distinction between scientists and journalists, science themed pod casts (thinking SGU specifically here) make the claim that there aren't really any science journalists left. In fact the  journalists covering science stories might have no background in it whatsoever.

A common approach is apparently to interview for about an hour with the journalist already knowing how they will frame the story, and just trying to steer the interviewee into giving them one out of context quote that will back it up.

/And also not bothering to check who paid for studies in case there might be a conflict of interest or bias.
//You basically have to research the article yourself to make sure it's accurate.
 
2013-04-17 09:07:44 AM
 These particles may have been created when dark matter particles collided and annihilated each other.

Apparently someone has decided that dark matter destroys itself when it hits other dark matter... even though we have no idea what dark matter is... and regardless of the fact that most of the universe is dark matter and it doesn't seem to be exploding. But then I did not spend my life collecting degrees so my observations are suspect.
 
2013-04-17 09:17:20 AM

Ostman: /And also not bothering to check who paid for studies in case there might be a conflict of interest or bias.


Real science doesn't dismiss results on the basis of ad hominem.
 
2013-04-17 09:22:55 AM
In this subterranean laboratory, researchers chill germanium and silicon to incredibly cold temperatures (near absolute zero, which is minus 459.67 degrees Fahrenheit, or minus 273.15 degrees Celsius). The chilled environment is ideal for directly detecting dark matter particles. If one passes through, hitting a frigid atom nucleus, it releases charge and heat that the scientists can detect with supersensitive instruments that go to eleven.

I predict they won't find the WIMPs until they can chill the room below absolute zero.

// Oh yeah? Why not, Mr. Science?
 
2013-04-17 09:24:36 AM
Was at this talk, getting a kick, ...
8 GeV is kind-of light - there's been some hints in this low-mass region from earlier experiments. The LHC has pretty much ruled out neutralino's w/ masses below ~80 GeV... So, this is intriguing, but let's see what all the other experiments say. Quite a few huge fiducial experiments are about to come online this year and in the next few... cheers
 
2013-04-17 09:28:21 AM
"We're not claiming anything"... but it was aliens.
 
2013-04-17 09:34:34 AM
Oblig.

blogs.discovermagazine.com
 
2013-04-17 09:47:26 AM

ardubz: Possibly, but dark matter and dark energy are completely unrelated.


Both the equivalent of epicycles though: concepts desperately bolted on to avoid the need to dismantle an inadequate theory. Time for a paradigm shift ...
 
2013-04-17 09:49:33 AM

hitlersbrain: These particles may have been created when dark matter particles collided and annihilated each other.

Apparently someone has decided that dark matter destroys itself when it hits other dark matter... even though we have no idea what dark matter is... and regardless of the fact that most of the universe is dark matter and it doesn't seem to be exploding. But then I did not spend my life collecting degrees so my observations are suspect.


No decisions have been made and the article skipped some background information - the theory that dark matter may be Weakly Interacting Massive Particles (WIMPs) which are their own anti-particles.  Anti-particles (e.g. electrons and positrons) annihilate each other when they collide.

Paraphrasing Wikipedia: Neutralinos, hypothetical particles predicted by supersymmetry are the leading WIMP candidates.

www.centauri-dreams.org
 
2013-04-17 11:33:05 AM

meanmutton: Ostman: /And also not bothering to check who paid for studies in case there might be a conflict of interest or bias.

Real science doesn't dismiss results on the basis of ad hominem.


Oh Yeah?!
 
2013-04-17 11:41:02 AM
One of my favorite dark matter theories was that it's mostly photons that were jammed into higher dimensions around the big bang because there was too high an energy density.

Sometimes it's hard to tell what physics are serious and which are pot derived.
 
2013-04-17 12:00:50 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-17 01:09:11 PM
Found this gem in the thread at bottom of article.  A must read...
http://kanevuniverse.com/first.htm
 
2013-04-17 01:23:02 PM

orbister: ardubz: Possibly, but dark matter and dark energy are completely unrelated.

Both the equivalent of epicycles though: concepts desperately bolted on to avoid the need to dismantle an inadequate theory. Time for a paradigm shift ...


Provide evidence for a hypothesis that better explains the observed phenomena, and I'm sure it'll happen.

This is what I don't get about those who aren't satisfied with current scientific understanding out at the "edge" (dark matter, for example) - you may not like the developing theory they're giving you, but it's based on hundreds or thousands of people with PhDs grinding away at more observational and theoretical data in a day than most people will see in their entire lives.  It's based on countless hours of work, debate, discussion, observation, calibration, and deduction.  Their understanding and education on the subject is exceptional, but the general public doesn't grasp it because they're busy with their daily lives and don't think outside of Newtonian views of their world.

Yes, dark matter, dark energy... hell, even the Standard Model... isn't very satisfying intellectually.  But there's not much evidence to say they're wrong, and lots of evidence to say they're right.  When someone comes up with something better, we'll adjust.  But until then, we've got what we've got, and it (mostly) works.
 
2013-04-17 02:30:17 PM
Am I racist for asking if we are paying [ too much | not enough ]  attention to dark matter?
 
2013-04-17 05:47:39 PM
The significance of the discovery was 3 sigma. This is a technical term that I could spend a lot of time explaining. Instead, I'll just give you the short version.

3 sigma -Fluff articles in news, mostly background. 2-3 quotes from lead scientist. Fark headline.

4 sigma - Lead story in news, extensive, almost correct scientific background with speculation on what this means. Paragraph long quotes from lead scientist. Incoherent explanations on reddit.

4.5 sigma - Noncommittal letters written to scientific journals. Press conference yielding 30 second blurb in closing minutes of news broadcast. Fark headline actually funny.

5 sigma - Only level that really matters. Formal papers submitted. Speculation on Nobel Prize. Lead story on news broadcast. Papers starting to carry heartwarming stories of lead scientist grinding lenses or other nerdy pursuits as a child. Memebase adds new meme. None are funny.
 
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