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(Salon)   Bostonian and noted author Dennis Lehane shares his thoughts on yesterday's tragic bombing: "Any 'cause' which kills kids is a pestilence"   (salon.com) divider line 143
    More: Followup, Dennis Lehane, Boylston Street, John F. Kennedy Library  
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5135 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2013 at 11:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-16 01:30:55 PM
No cause? What about raising awareness of breast cancer? Everyone knows that anything is good and noble if it's to raise awareness of breast cancer.
 
2013-04-16 01:33:06 PM

tallguywithglasseson: What if all the kids killed by my cause are Hitler?


Then Germany wins WWII -- you monster.
 
2013-04-16 01:34:04 PM

FarkinHostile: wambu: Why is a child's life more valuable than any other? This act is an outrage no matter who was killed or injured. To make it "more special" because a child was a victim is duplicitous demagog-ish douchebaggery at its best. Lehane is simply being self-aggrandizing and sensationalistic.

Well, I find the death of a child or young person more tragic because they didn't have a chance to experience enough Life. Falling in love, getting drunk with good friends, seeing the world, becoming friends with your parents...even  the ugly parts, like having your heart broken, losing a friend, having a parent die, ect. I mean I've done all those things, so if I were killed it's not as bad in my eyes as a child who hasn't had a chance to...live.


So there's like a checklist and as you check off life experiences your life becomes worth less? I haven't been married or had kids yet. So is my life worth more than the guy's next door who has 4 kids and 2 grandkids? I get what you're trying to say (and I have really thought about it). I just can't get to that place.

I just don't think it is my place to say whether one life is worth more than another. I believe the life of someone who is willing to take other's lives to further their own (or for whatever nefarious reason) is worth less than someone's who is not willing to kill--but that's about as far as I am willing to go.
 
2013-04-16 01:43:35 PM

scottydoesntknow: Terrydatroll: scottydoesntknow: I'd venture to say that ANY cause which kills ANYONE is a pestilence.

Causes that killed men, women and children :

American Revolution (cause was freedom)
Civil War ( cause was to rid our country of slavery)
WW2 9 (Defeat Nazi Germany)
WW1 ( darn Germans again)
American Indians (lost cause to fight off European invaders)

Since these and countless other causes took innocent lives in their endeavors you are saying they were all pestilence? I think the author and we need to rethink this.

That was more to combat other causes that were infringing on causes that wouldn't affect anyone. American Revolution was to combat the cause of forcing religion/taxes on people. Civil War was to combat the idealogical cause that blacks were slaves and states were independent of a nation. WW1/2 are obvious.

War is a necessity at times, I won't dispute that. But the senseless killing for a cause is what I'm talking about. If it had only been adults that died yesterday, it would still be a pestilence.

And I know my initial post didn't say that and I apologize for that.


I forget who said it, but it applies.  "War is a terrible thing, but it isn't the worse thing."
 
2013-04-16 01:45:24 PM
I just want to know where the "Special" demarcation point.At what age do you get the "You're no longer special and your life is now worth less." birthday party?
 
2013-04-16 01:49:59 PM

computerguyUT: So when we drone-bomb the shiat out of a middle eastern residence and take out a "suspected terrorist" along with his three wives and all of his kids, (NOT refering to Obama Bin Laden)  it's okay cause you can wrap the whole incident in a nice pretty flag and rationalize it because, you know...  progress.

But when one of these people, who's countries we have invaded and occupied, who has no other recourse or way to vent their anger, sets off a bomb in the US, it's all what, what? and rage and blah, blah...

If a foreign country occupied the USA, we would mount a guerilla offensive that would shake the world.

Not saying the bombing in Bawstun was wrong, it absolutely was a horrific act, just saying that it should not be a huge surprise.

We need to get out of the rest of the planet's grill and worry about our own issues.  Maybe our image globally would improve a bit.  Let the UN and China be the big dogs, let them suffer the slings and arrows.  I'm tired of everyone hating America because we can't mind our own freaking business.


I get where you are going with this, however, if those coutnries really don't want us there all they have to do is tell us to leave.
 
2013-04-16 01:57:05 PM

Latinwolf: CygnusDarius:  wambu: Why is a child's life more valuable than any other?.
A child is yet to experience things, and adult already has, by definition.

Which don't matter to a Libertarian.  Note that they are the ones that like to say "why are we treating a child's life differently than an adult's life".


This has nothing to do with how society treats or values a child's life. We offer extra protection to children because they are vulnerable and immature, not because they are more valuable. If anything, they may be considered the least valuable members. They contribute nothing while young, require out-of-proportion rsources and are easily and quickly replaced. Contrast this with older people who take years of time and massive resources to replace with someone of comparable skills and education. But I digress . . .

It's a sad commentary on our character that we view children's lives as "precious" and old people's lives a "disposable" or "used up".

Any death is a human tragedy. Violent, senseless death even more so. But it should not serve as justification for stepping over some imaginary line drawn in the sands of  wharrgarbl-esque behavior allowing us to ratchet up our perceived indignation and outrage. We shoudl be sufficiently outraged enough at the callous, cowardly act itself and the monster(s) that perpetrated it.

All life is precious. All people contribute to society, no matter what their age.
 

To think differently is to diminish the value of all human life, which is what Lehane is doing. He should be ashamed, but in reading TFA, it appears he has no shame.
 
2013-04-16 02:15:29 PM

Feral_and_Preposterous: So there's like a checklist and as you check off life experiences your life becomes worth less?


I said I find it more tragic when a child dies, not that they are "worth" more. More emotionally "stimulating" if you will. When I read the obits and I see say a 20 year old die, I think it's sadder than a 85 year old just because of how much I have lived since I was 20 myself. If I were to die right now, I can say I've had a pretty good life, so its less tragic. A child? Not so much.

Just my opinion, and I can see the counter point.
 
2013-04-16 02:18:11 PM

abu ponster: Terrydatroll: scottydoesntknow: I'd venture to say that ANY cause which kills ANYONE is a pestilence.

Causes that killed men, women and children :

American Revolution (cause was freedom)
Civil War ( cause was to rid our country of slavery)
WW2 9 (Defeat Nazi Germany)
WW1 ( darn Germans again)
American Indians (lost cause to fight off European invaders)

Since these and countless other causes took innocent lives in their endeavors you are saying they were all pestilence? I think the author and we need to rethink this.

AMerican revoluDr. Manhattan: Terrydatroll: scottydoesntknow: I'd venture to say that ANY cause which kills ANYONE is a pestilence.

Causes that killed men, women and children :

American Revolution (cause was freedom)
Civil War ( cause was to rid our country of slavery)
WW2 9 (Defeat Nazi Germany)
WW1 ( darn Germans again)
American Indians (lost cause to fight off European invaders)

Since these and countless other causes took innocent lives in their endeavors you are saying they were all pestilence? I think the author and we need to rethink this.

That's exactly what we need at a time like this: pedantry. You sure showed those people who are condemning this attack.

No, let me try!  I can be more pedantic!

American Revolution (cause was freedom)

The cause was taxation; plantation owners such as Washington didn't want to waste money propping up the Crown.  Immediately after war, the winning team proceeded to levy their own high taxes and violently suppress objections.  I'm not sure nebulous things like 'freedom' ever count as causes, since everyone always considers themselves in favor of them.

Civil War ( cause was to rid our country of slavery)

Slavery was a hot topic, but to ignore the economic interests just because the railway lobby hitched their wagon to abolitionism is ridiculous.  " If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it" -- Lincoln


Slaves were a economic interest. Lincoln didn't save the Union without freeing the slaves.
 
2013-04-16 02:25:50 PM

Luse: I just want to know where the "Special" demarcation point.At what age do you get the "You're no longer special and your life is now worth less." birthday party?


Junior High School. Kids definitely become worth less once they go into Junior High. All parents (and Junior High teachers) know this.
 
2013-04-16 02:30:05 PM

missiv: abu ponster: Terrydatroll: scottydoesntknow: I'd venture to say that ANY cause which kills ANYONE is a pestilence.

Causes that killed men, women and children :

American Revolution (cause was freedom)
Civil War ( cause was to rid our country of slavery)
WW2 9 (Defeat Nazi Germany)
WW1 ( darn Germans again)
American Indians (lost cause to fight off European invaders)

Since these and countless other causes took innocent lives in their endeavors you are saying they were all pestilence? I think the author and we need to rethink this.

AMerican revoluDr. Manhattan: Terrydatroll: scottydoesntknow: I'd venture to say that ANY cause which kills ANYONE is a pestilence.

Causes that killed men, women and children :

American Revolution (cause was freedom)
Civil War ( cause was to rid our country of slavery)
WW2 9 (Defeat Nazi Germany)
WW1 ( darn Germans again)
American Indians (lost cause to fight off European invaders)

Since these and countless other causes took innocent lives in their endeavors you are saying they were all pestilence? I think the author and we need to rethink this.

That's exactly what we need at a time like this: pedantry. You sure showed those people who are condemning this attack.

No, let me try!  I can be more pedantic!

American Revolution (cause was freedom)

The cause was taxation; plantation owners such as Washington didn't want to waste money propping up the Crown.  Immediately after war, the winning team proceeded to levy their own high taxes and violently suppress objections.  I'm not sure nebulous things like 'freedom' ever count as causes, since everyone always considers themselves in favor of them.

Civil War ( cause was to rid our country of slavery)

Slavery was a hot topic, but to ignore the economic interests just because the railway lobby hitched their wagon to abolitionism is ridiculous.  " If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it" -- Lincoln

Slaves were a economic interest. Lincoln didn't save the Union without freeing the slaves.


Because it was more politically convenient to do so. Indeed, the proclamation freeing them even exempted northern states and any southern states that would immediately rejoin the union(none did)

Unionists were certainly worthy of support from abolitionists as a tool against the slave holders(and indeed, history bears out that support as having been a good bet.) But to ascribe an abolitionary motive to the government of the time is delusional.
 
2013-04-16 02:30:11 PM

CygnusDarius: Debeo Summa Credo: CygnusDarius: The thing I fear the most is that the bomber turns out that is a sociopath, who did it because "he was bored".

Why?

Because it involves a frightening level of disconnection with humanity, at least IMO, and I'm no psychologist. I mean, you really can't 'punish' that kind of people, because they seem to feel nothing, kind of like this guy.


Cant punish them? Sure you can.
give em the black knight treatment. Let em live like that.
they know why theyve been punished.
understanding why? Who cares
 
2013-04-16 02:31:54 PM
What if your cause is pro-choice??
 
2013-04-16 02:37:40 PM

neversubmit: Name one good thing about killing kids.


They wont turn into teenagers.

Stil waiting for a group to claim responsibility. Whats the point of doing this big public bombing and not taking credit, unless your just some crazy person.
 
2013-04-16 02:40:33 PM

groppet: neversubmit: Name one good thing about killing kids.

They wont turn into teenagers.

Stil waiting for a group to claim responsibility. Whats the point of doing this big public bombing and not taking credit, unless your just some crazy person.


Could just be straight up letting their actions sleek. Dunno who would specifically want to bring down marathons. Radical fat people?
 
2013-04-16 02:42:03 PM
The pursuit of freedom and democracy kills kids. At least the American version of it. Does that make freedom a pestilence?
 
2013-04-16 02:44:04 PM

amoral: The pursuit of freedom and democracy kills kids. At least the American version of it. Does that make freedom a pestilence?


At least the American version of it.
 
2013-04-16 02:52:14 PM

wambu: Why is a child's life more valuable than any other? This act is an outrage no matter who was killed or injured. To make it "more special" because a child was a victim is duplicitous demagog-ish douchebaggery at its best. Lehane is simply being self-aggrandizing and sensationalistic.


A child is more "innocent," to use a cliche but relatively true statement....they don't have the prejudices, political or religious views of adults...they are weaker and have very little say as they are still developing their minds. It is a base human instinct to protect children as they are our next generation and therefore our future...when they die we have failed them and ourselves.
 
2013-04-16 02:55:31 PM

Ned Stark: neversubmit: Name one good thing about killing kids.

Quiet on the redeye flight.


I guess there's that.

/lulz...c u in hell
 
2013-04-16 03:25:46 PM
Abortion is a pestilence? Here i though it was just another necessary evil.
 
2013-04-16 03:28:23 PM

Ned Stark: Dust: More importantly, the people who are watching this unfold and praying the culprits belong to a specific group (radical Islamists, Tea Party, etc) are the ones who need to be removed from any position of power, or at the very least disabused of their backwards worldview.

I dearly hope its domestic just so we don't farking invade a country over it.


Wow, just.... wow
 
2013-04-16 03:35:37 PM

Joe Blowme: Ned Stark: Dust: More importantly, the people who are watching this unfold and praying the culprits belong to a specific group (radical Islamists, Tea Party, etc) are the ones who need to be removed from any position of power, or at the very least disabused of their backwards worldview.

I dearly hope its domestic just so we don't farking invade a country over it.

Wow, just.... wow


Woweee jeapers by golly.
 
2013-04-16 03:35:54 PM
The man has strong feelings about young goats, and that's saying something...
 
2013-04-16 03:40:03 PM
Dennis may want to have a chat with his congressperson and / or the President of the United States.

If we apply our own definitions of militant (any male between 15 - 40) hit yesterday in the blast. How many would that be ?

Madeline Albright when asked about the 100,000 Iraqi children killed in the first gulf war to fighting and sanctions, replied that she and the admin thought it was worth it.

When we kill a family on their way to a wedding or whatever we just say whoops, didn't mean it.
 
2013-04-16 03:41:13 PM
Wonder if that includes abortion..
 
2013-04-16 03:42:15 PM
i.chzbgr.com
 
2013-04-16 03:45:27 PM

ficklefkrfark: wambu: Why is a child's life more valuable than any other? This act is an outrage no matter who was killed or injured. To make it "more special" because a child was a victim is duplicitous demagog-ish douchebaggery at its best. Lehane is simply being self-aggrandizing and sensationalistic.

A child is more "innocent," to use a cliche but relatively true statement....they don't have the prejudices, political or religious views of adults...they are weaker and have very little say as they are still developing their minds. It is a base human instinct to protect children as they are our next generation and therefore our future...when they die we have failed them and ourselves.


Basic instinct? Hardly. Look up Sparta. Read up on Vlad Tepes. Look up the reason even the enlightened US needed laws to say its bad for a kid to work in a factory.
Modern day mothers strap explosive vests on their sons.
Id say your very premise is at least debatable.

The rest are emotional points.
Simply put, you are placing a greater value on some lives therefore by default giving less value to adult lives.
Ive heard of people and governme ts doing the same, only with different criteria.
Most of the civilized world calls that kind of thought pattern "evil".
 
2013-04-16 03:46:00 PM
www.fpp.co.uk

What a dumbass.  How many cute, blonde, children got killed in Dresden, Munich, Berlin etc. stopping Hitler?  Was it worth it?  I'll leave that for history to answer.
 
2013-04-16 03:48:52 PM

gunsmack: Damn, thought it said Denis Leary. Was looking for some funny.


I don't know if Bill Hicks ever commented on terrorism...maybe Leary's looking through his stuff right now so he can issue a statement.
 
2013-04-16 03:52:56 PM

groppet: neversubmit: Name one good thing about killing kids.

They wont turn into teenagers.

Stil waiting for a group to claim responsibility. Whats the point of doing this big public bombing and not taking credit, unless your just some crazy person.


That is what I find oddly interesting about this.  No one has taken responsibility for it.  No group has said that it was done for their religious or political beliefs.  This is why I am really thinking it's someone, or a group of people, who just wants to see the world burn.  No message, no beliefs, no ransom, just blow shiat up because fark you, that's why.
 
2013-04-16 04:18:33 PM
thecripplegate.com
 
2013-04-16 04:29:34 PM
With terrorism, the cause doesn't matter. Not quite sure why people can't get that through their empty heads, especially after seeing Die Hard.

To ask the cause invites propaganda. To believe it results in anything from a lynchmob to global thermonuclear war, all depending on what agendas are being advanced

Ask instead what motivated the person to do the action, however, and the real culprit tends to reveal itself after asking "why" around 5 times.

/Protip: the final answer is never religion.
 
2013-04-16 04:31:46 PM
"These are my three wives: Famine, Pestilence, and Death"

You made your bed, now lay in it!
 
2013-04-16 04:53:48 PM

Luse: Basic instinct? Hardly. Look up Sparta. Read up on Vlad Tepes. Look up the reason even the enlightened US needed laws to say its bad for a kid to work in a factory.


Staying alive is a basic instinct and yet people commit suicide.

The rest are emotional points.
Simply put, you are placing a greater value on some lives therefore by default giving less value to adult lives.


I don't think he is. He's saying that he is more emotionally affected by some deaths than by others, and I think that would go for every single one of us. Or have you another reason for not sending flowers to my grandfather's funeral?
 
2013-04-16 04:55:41 PM

Great Janitor: That is what I find oddly interesting about this.  No one has taken responsibility for it.  No group has said that it was done for their religious or political beliefs.


It'll be a single nutter with a grudge about a parking ticket, or a planning dispute, or just a desire to blow a few people up.
 
2013-04-16 05:51:24 PM
Pharoah wept.
 
2013-04-16 05:59:42 PM
DNRTFA, but I agree that any cause that kills kids is a pestilence.  This is a very sad thing, disgusting.  However, I do not have tunnel-vision and am not able to see American causes that have killed hundreds if not thousands of kids.  Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc.  Remember, that while you are pointing your index finger at others, there are 3 pointing right back at you.
 
2013-04-16 06:00:59 PM

404 page not found: Pharoah wept.


Oops. Confused him with this douche:

www.biography.com
 
2013-04-16 06:09:14 PM

PapaChester: My money is on white extremists.


This, pretty much, and I'd say no more than 3 people since there were only 3 devices (unless I'm mistaken). The way the bombs went down doesn't smack of an international incident, and if it had been a terrorist organization they'd have likely claimed credit by now.
 
2013-04-16 07:12:57 PM

orbister: Luse: Basic instinct? Hardly. Look up Sparta. Read up on Vlad Tepes. Look up the reason even the enlightened US needed laws to say its bad for a kid to work in a factory.

Staying alive is a basic instinct and yet people commit suicide.


Suicide is an entirely different issue. Most suicides are committed by a disturbed mind who believes that it is either worthless, or worse, harmful to those around them. Large portion of the rest are people in terminal pain etc.
Not to mention being defecated on, self mutilation to include amputation, castration etc. Not my bag but go for it, just don't try to get me or others to join you.

The rest are emotional points.
Simply put, you are placing a greater value on some lives therefore by default giving less value to adult lives.

I don't think he is. He's saying that he is more emotionally affected by some deaths than by others, and I think that would go for every single one of us. Or have you another reason for not sending flowers to my grandfather's funeral?


But that is the intent. When you use a phrase like "basic instinct" you infer that this is something inherent to the species. I would argue that it's a learned behavior. None in Sparta wept when they threw the sickly infant off a cliff. It wasn't part of their culture, yet they were still human. Not an isolated incident, common practice, just as with my other examples.
I wouldn't have bothered with a statement such as, "It upsets me more when I hear that it was a child who died."
The issue becomes when you use, "It is more upsetting when a child dies."
They are not the same thing. The latter has an implication that this is an excepted norm.
As far as your grandfather, I'm sorry to hear of his passing but up until now I was unaware that he had ever lived. I'm sure if I had met him, I would have found him a charming fellow. In such a case, I would most definitely place flowers on his grave. At least plastic ones.
 
2013-04-16 07:24:24 PM
"Cause which kills kids" huh?  Hmm... let's see...

OH YEAH! That little war in the middle east the papers seem to have forgotten about, with all those suckers, er kids in uniforms dying for oil mon... er.... dying for our freedom. Freedom, patriotism. yeah!
 Silly me...

Look, this is a terrible thing which has happened, but lets not forget that there are other terrorists and murders in our midst, and they've rationalized their actions with laws and lobbying and patriotism. Wanna feel sick? Wanna feel angry? Maybe that's a better use of emotions in the aftermath of this.
 
2013-04-16 08:38:39 PM

supayoda: PapaChester: My money is on white extremists.

This, pretty much, and I'd say no more than 3 people since there were only 3 devices (unless I'm mistaken). The way the bombs went down doesn't smack of an international incident, and if it had been a terrorist organization they'd have likely claimed credit by now.


My money is on a single, very disturbed individual.
 
2013-04-16 09:18:22 PM

Dust: More importantly, the people who are watching this unfold and praying the culprits belong to a specific group (radical Islamists, Tea Party, etc) are the ones who need to be removed from any position of power, or at the very least disabused of their backwards worldview.


That would be the entire FarkLibtard faction over there in the politics tab.
 
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