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(My Fox NY)   English and math tests that NY students will take this week and next will be harder than before and scores will drop. Some parents are planning to boycott them (link fixed)   (myfoxny.com) divider line 69
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3893 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2013 at 7:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-16 07:58:42 AM
Damn Obama!
 
2013-04-16 08:03:26 AM
THE HORROR
 
2013-04-16 08:09:53 AM
NY education sucks the big one. It may suck less than some other places, but dollar for dollar it's pretty pathetic and frustrating. I do the best I can with my niece to actually educate her, promote her reading on her own, and show her that math and history aren't nearly as boring as they seem in school, but my limited time with her can only do so much to compensate for crap teachers and teaching curricula.
 
2013-04-16 08:10:15 AM
Random politicians to promise that they will wipe the noses and asses of the students, then follow it up with an Ice Cweam trip and a water park.
 
2013-04-16 08:23:49 AM
The most important thing to remember about this is WHOA, PAINTED ON JEANS video at the bottom of the page.
 
2013-04-16 08:23:50 AM
Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become successful when they're grown?
 
2013-04-16 08:26:43 AM
Is the purpose of testing to make the students feel good about themselves, regardless of academic achievement, or to assess valid academic achievement?
 
2013-04-16 08:28:34 AM
As long as the world isn't becoming more complicated, they are good to go.
 
2013-04-16 08:29:40 AM

Virtuoso80: NY education sucks the big one. It may suck less than some other places, but dollar for dollar it's pretty pathetic and frustrating. I do the best I can with my niece to actually educate her, promote her reading on her own, and show her that math and history aren't nearly as boring as they seem in school, but my limited time with her can only do so much to compensate for crap teachers and teaching curricula.


Sounds like the only place in the country you've ever lived is NY.  Come on down to texas, where the state board of education wants kids to be taught that Jesus Rode Dinosaurs, and abstinence only education didn't help to produce one of the highest teen birth rates in the country

What sucks is NY, instead of doing the tests like they have been over the years, is doing the same outsourcing of the same tests to the same company that is helping to make Texas education Number 47 in the country... Pearson.

NY used to produce their own tests in house, with teachers doing the grading during the last week of school.  Now they have to give the tests in April, and the kids will think the last 2 months are "play time"...

Just like in Texas.
 
2013-04-16 08:29:44 AM
Well, the good news is that the students are taking the exams, not the parents.
 
2013-04-16 08:31:02 AM
Epic reporting is the product of epic education.

"Listen, we know you're dumb - so this is how its going to happen. We're going to give you a test and you are going to do poorly. But here's the proviso, for months leading up to the test, we're going to say how hard it will be - this way, when you do fail, everyone will look at you and think 'Hmm, they did say it would be hard...'"
 
2013-04-16 08:35:30 AM
I know they start young these days, but really how many 3rd through 8th graders are parents in NY? Can't be more than a dozen or so boycotting the tests.
 
2013-04-16 08:36:38 AM
Why even teach history? Nobody ever learns from it. Examples:

* Did we not learn three times in United States history that a central bank plunges the economy into debt? Andrew Jackson anybody? No, now we have the Fed and the biggest debt ever.

* Did we not learn that taxing people too much leads to economic failure? Revolutionary War anybody? No, now we have a burdensome tax system, #6 highest in the world as far as businesses. 77 cents of every dollar I make goes to wasteful government spending.
 
2013-04-16 08:38:05 AM

bmihura: Why even teach history? Nobody ever learns from it. Examples:

* Did we not learn three times in United States history that a central bank plunges the economy into debt? Andrew Jackson anybody? No, now we have the Fed and the biggest debt ever.

* Did we not learn that taxing people too much leads to economic failure? Revolutionary War anybody? No, now we have a burdensome tax system, #6 highest in the world as far as businesses. 77 cents of every dollar I make goes to wasteful government spending.


You sound home schooled.
 
2013-04-16 08:38:56 AM

maddogdelta: Virtuoso80: NY education sucks the big one. It may suck less than some other places, but dollar for dollar it's pretty pathetic and frustrating. I do the best I can with my niece to actually educate her, promote her reading on her own, and show her that math and history aren't nearly as boring as they seem in school, but my limited time with her can only do so much to compensate for crap teachers and teaching curricula.

Sounds like the only place in the country you've ever lived is NY.  Come on down to texas, where the state board of education wants kids to be taught that Jesus Rode Dinosaurs, and abstinence only education didn't help to produce one of the highest teen birth rates in the country

What sucks is NY, instead of doing the tests like they have been over the years, is doing the same outsourcing of the same tests to the same company that is helping to make Texas education Number 47 in the country... Pearson.

NY used to produce their own tests in house, with teachers doing the grading during the last week of school.  Now they have to give the tests in April, and the kids will think the last 2 months are "play time"...

Just like in Texas.


This is incorrect.  Pearson has been hired to administer the tests for scoring purposes, but the questions and material in New York were created and implemented by the office of state assessment with the inclusion of classroom teachers and administrators and the Board of Co-operational Education Services.
 
2013-04-16 08:40:39 AM

bmihura: * Did we not learn that taxing people too much leads to economic failure? Revolutionary War anybody? No, now we have a burdensome tax system, #6 highest in the world as far as businesses. 77 cents of every dollar I make goes to wasteful government spending


Hahaha!!!!


no.
 
2013-04-16 08:42:28 AM

bmihura: * Did we not learn that taxing people too much leads to economic failure? Revolutionary War anybody? No, now we have a burdensome tax system, #6 highest in the world as far as businesses. 77 cents of every dollar I make goes to wasteful government spending.


Aww, and you're trying so hard, too.
 
2013-04-16 08:45:16 AM
My son is taking those tests starting today.

I don't really have a problem with it.  I know he'll do well in comparison to others in his grade, and since it's not part of his grades, whether he does really well or not from an absolute standpoint is irrelevant.

Plus, if it helps to identify teachers that need help, or if it helps to weed out the teachers with a long record of poor performance (after a long enough time period to build up a pattern), I say "Hey, great!".  I know some teachers personally, and while they are friends, it's always kind of struck me as odd that they feel entitled to job security that most of us don't have, especially considering the importance of their jobs.  We've all had at least one teacher that was "phoning it in", basically just going through the motions, relying on decades-old lesson plans.  What's wrong with weeding them out?
 
2013-04-16 08:47:12 AM

gregory311: This is incorrect.  Pearson has been hired to administer the tests for scoring purposes, but the questions and material in New York were created and implemented by the office of state assessment with the inclusion of classroom teachers and administrators and the Board of Co-operational Education Services.


Oh, great.  The Bo-tards are running the show.
 
2013-04-16 08:50:35 AM

maddogdelta: Virtuoso80: NY education sucks the big one. It may suck less than some other places, but dollar for dollar it's pretty pathetic and frustrating. I do the best I can with my niece to actually educate her, promote her reading on her own, and show her that math and history aren't nearly as boring as they seem in school, but my limited time with her can only do so much to compensate for crap teachers and teaching curricula.

Sounds like the only place in the country you've ever lived is NY.  Come on down to texas, where the state board of education wants kids to be taught that Jesus Rode Dinosaurs, and abstinence only education didn't help to produce one of the highest teen birth rates in the country

What sucks is NY, instead of doing the tests like they have been over the years, is doing the same outsourcing of the same tests to the same company that is helping to make Texas education Number 47 in the country... Pearson.

NY used to produce their own tests in house, with teachers doing the grading during the last week of school.  Now they have to give the tests in April, and the kids will think the last 2 months are "play time"...

Just like in Texas.


I currently live in NY and actually just had a conversation with my 8th grader this morning about the tests. He was nervous and I told him not to be. These tests are just an indication of how well the teachers are doing.

NY tends to be a bit higher on the education scale compared with some other states that shall remain nameless. A friend of mine moved to another state for a few years for college and her children were rocket scientists compared to the general student population.  Her son was in remedial math here and advanced math there.

Some of the issues with education in NY in my view are that the NY State Education Department leaves way too much up to the individual districts, and some of the new teacher requirements are unnecessary and time consuming. For instance, teachers must now submit lesson plans that are at least 5 pages for each of their classes each day. Even if the lesson plans are the same.

It also depends a lot on how big the district is. My school district is in a very small town with a teacher/student ratio of 1:9 with over 17k being spent per student, so our district leans more toward private school results.
 
2013-04-16 08:53:45 AM

bmihura: Why even teach history? Nobody ever learns from it. Examples:

* Did we not learn three times in United States history that a central bank plunges the economy into debt? Andrew Jackson anybody? No, now we have the Fed and the biggest debt ever.

* Did we not learn that taxing people too much leads to economic failure? Revolutionary War anybody? No, now we have a burdensome tax system, #6 highest in the world as far as businesses. 77 cents of every dollar I make goes to wasteful government spending.


We've solved those mysteries.  It's totally going to work this time.
 
2013-04-16 08:55:07 AM

dittybopper: gregory311: This is incorrect.  Pearson has been hired to administer the tests for scoring purposes, but the questions and material in New York were created and implemented by the office of state assessment with the inclusion of classroom teachers and administrators and the Board of Co-operational Education Services.

Oh, great.  The Bo-tards are running the show.


Nice...You must not know much about BOCES programs.
 
2013-04-16 08:55:47 AM

take_flight: dittybopper: gregory311: This is incorrect.  Pearson has been hired to administer the tests for scoring purposes, but the questions and material in New York were created and implemented by the office of state assessment with the inclusion of classroom teachers and administrators and the Board of Co-operational Education Services.

Oh, great.  The Bo-tards are running the show.

Nice...You must not know much about BOCES programs.


Agreed.
 
2013-04-16 08:57:45 AM

take_flight: maddogdelta: Virtuoso80: NY education sucks the big one. It may suck less than some other places, but dollar for dollar it's pretty pathetic and frustrating. I do the best I can with my niece to actually educate her, promote her reading on her own, and show her that math and history aren't nearly as boring as they seem in school, but my limited time with her can only do so much to compensate for crap teachers and teaching curricula.

Sounds like the only place in the country you've ever lived is NY.  Come on down to texas, where the state board of education wants kids to be taught that Jesus Rode Dinosaurs, and abstinence only education didn't help to produce one of the highest teen birth rates in the country

What sucks is NY, instead of doing the tests like they have been over the years, is doing the same outsourcing of the same tests to the same company that is helping to make Texas education Number 47 in the country... Pearson.

NY used to produce their own tests in house, with teachers doing the grading during the last week of school.  Now they have to give the tests in April, and the kids will think the last 2 months are "play time"...

Just like in Texas.

I currently live in NY and actually just had a conversation with my 8th grader this morning about the tests. He was nervous and I told him not to be. These tests are just an indication of how well the teachers are doing.

NY tends to be a bit higher on the education scale compared with some other states that shall remain nameless. A friend of mine moved to another state for a few years for college and her children were rocket scientists compared to the general student population.  Her son was in remedial math here and advanced math there.

Some of the issues with education in NY in my view are that the NY State Education Department leaves way too much up to the individual districts, and some of the new teacher requirements are unnecessary and time consuming. For instance, teachers must now submit lesson pla ...


I am not an educator, but thank you for stopping the nonsense that is running amok about all of this.  It's sad that a guy like me knows more about the testing than many of the 'teachers' in my area.
 
2013-04-16 09:11:01 AM

DubtodaIll: Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become successful when they're grown?


What's wrong with "happiness" as a measure of success?  After all, it's "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and not "life, liberty and the pursuit of material possessions".
 
2013-04-16 09:13:05 AM

Mr. Right: Is the purpose of testing to make the students feel good about themselves, regardless of academic achievement, or to assess valid academic achievement?


Neither.
 
2013-04-16 09:15:26 AM

gregory311: take_flight: maddogdelta: Virtuoso80: NY education sucks the big one. It may suck less than some other places, but dollar for dollar it's pretty pathetic and frustrating. I do the best I can with my niece to actually educate her, promote her reading on her own, and show her that math and history aren't nearly as boring as they seem in school, but my limited time with her can only do so much to compensate for crap teachers and teaching curricula.

Sounds like the only place in the country you've ever lived is NY.  Come on down to texas, where the state board of education wants kids to be taught that Jesus Rode Dinosaurs, and abstinence only education didn't help to produce one of the highest teen birth rates in the country

What sucks is NY, instead of doing the tests like they have been over the years, is doing the same outsourcing of the same tests to the same company that is helping to make Texas education Number 47 in the country... Pearson.

NY used to produce their own tests in house, with teachers doing the grading during the last week of school.  Now they have to give the tests in April, and the kids will think the last 2 months are "play time"...

Just like in Texas.

I currently live in NY and actually just had a conversation with my 8th grader this morning about the tests. He was nervous and I told him not to be. These tests are just an indication of how well the teachers are doing.

NY tends to be a bit higher on the education scale compared with some other states that shall remain nameless. A friend of mine moved to another state for a few years for college and her children were rocket scientists compared to the general student population.  Her son was in remedial math here and advanced math there...


I am not an educator, but thank you for stopping the nonsense that is running amok about all of this.  It's sad that a guy like me knows more about the testing than many of the 'teachers' in my area.

You are correct using the term nonsense. One of the main reasons NY cited when they changed the testing was that the previous testing was broken. Teachers often taught the kids to test rather than the actual material.
 
2013-04-16 09:17:17 AM

Virtuoso80: NY education sucks the big one. It may suck less than some other places, but dollar for dollar it's pretty pathetic and frustrating. I do the best I can with my niece to actually educate her, promote her reading on her own, and show her that math and history aren't nearly as boring as they seem in school, but my limited time with her can only do so much to compensate for crap teachers and teaching curricula.


Funny, that's what parents are supposed to do, help their crotchfruits learn.  The NY education system is better than most.  I graduated from a NY school and now live in SC.  Huge difference.
 
2013-04-16 09:20:13 AM
I think most people who came through the public education system share an experience of a handful of teachers that encouraged and inspired them and a greater number that seemed intimidating, or overly severe, and then some number of dumbasses.

The first group, everyone praises and is happy to cut them slack for their devotion. The second isn't as often recognized for instilling a "bar" or "life lesson" that life is unforgiving.  The last group everyone agrees abuses job security, and are dispicable.

But then come the arguments for metrics. How to distinguish these groups? And what teachers know of themselves, and why they have more often supported union representation, is that very good teachers will challenge themselves to work in the most challenging environments where progress is slow. Alternatively, very bad teachers will gravitate toward better funded environments and coast on the natural talents of supported learners to progress at a normative rate.

Measuring a teacher by the progress of students? Not a measure supported by research, but a popular knife among policy framers who stand to profit from big deals with publishers and the ever increasing number of "managers", "experts" and "coaches" in education that are just happy to be out of the "trenches".

Federal meddling with public education should end. Education policy is often given public discussion and understanding until a foreign policy issue rips its discoveries from the media. People forget Reagan wanted to smash the federal level. Now his party is hot to profit from it. Bush's own family was in the wings with tech/staffing solutions for the aftermath of NCLB. Government officials often reap the benefits of policy change-- their investments are not given sufficient sunshine.

Have lived long enough to see it happen repeatedly. Know it will go on after my demise. Pretty sickening.
 
2013-04-16 09:20:23 AM
God forbid someone actually tries to RAISE standards after decades of slowly slipping...
 
2013-04-16 09:23:35 AM

DubtodaIll: Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become successful when they're grown?


Birth?
 
2013-04-16 09:24:47 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-16 09:26:34 AM

orbister: DubtodaIll: Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become successful when they're grown?

What's wrong with "happiness" as a measure of success?  After all, it's "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and not "life, liberty and the pursuit of material possessions".


True, they do say ignorance is bliss
 
2013-04-16 09:27:49 AM

take_flight: Some of the issues with education in NY in my view are that the NY State Education Department leaves way too much up to the individual districts


You mean there's an aspect of existence in New York that hasn't been grabbed in Albany's viselike jaws?

Local school board members can be unpleasant little shiats, but I'll take them over state legislators any day. At least there's a chance of voting school board members out of office once in a while.

Virtuoso80: NY education sucks the big one. It may suck less than some other places, but dollar for dollar it's pretty pathetic and frustrating. I do the best I can with my niece to actually educate her, promote her reading on her own, and show her that math and history aren't nearly as boring as they seem in school, but my limited time with her can only do so much to compensate for crap teachers and teaching curricula.


Somewhat this.

NY is a real mixed bag. The amount paid in taxes doesn't have much of a relationship to the results, and a handful of lawsuit-happy parents and their advocates can run rings around the system if they go up against administrators who don't know the first thing about making sure the school's legal issues are squared away.

There are plenty of cases where parents wangle expensive private-school educations out of public school districts who figure that paying $40K/yr for Madame Snooty-face's Finishing School is cheaper than paying the costs of a settlement. Which sucks if you're a parent who actually does have a profoundly disabled child who needs bigtime services - you get lumped in with the lawyered-up asshats.
 
2013-04-16 09:31:33 AM

Ned Stark: Mr. Right: Is the purpose of testing to make the students feel good about themselves, regardless of academic achievement, or to assess valid academic achievement?

Neither.


Agreed. It's to make the State look like it's active in improving education. Mostly the testing is a waste of time. What makes a good teacher is not something that can be assessed by these tests. It's a difficult question, and there's no magic formula, so it requires assessment on a local level.

We are so behind in the field of education. It reminds me of the automotive and tech industries of communist countries. I sometimes wonder if the only path to innovation and improvement is to privatize the whole endeavor.
 
B A [TotalFark]
2013-04-16 09:33:08 AM
This is an action that is way past due. Now  we need to get other states to do the same.Yes Texas, I'm looking at you!
 
2013-04-16 09:39:31 AM

orbister: DubtodaIll: Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become successful when they're grown?

What's wrong with "happiness" as a measure of success?  After all, it's "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and not "life, liberty and the pursuit of material possessions".


It just says pursuit of happiness, it says nothing about actually obtaining it.
 
2013-04-16 09:50:08 AM

stonicus: orbister: DubtodaIll: Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become successful when they're grown?

What's wrong with "happiness" as a measure of success?  After all, it's "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and not "life, liberty and the pursuit of material possessions".

It just says pursuit of happiness, it says nothing about actually obtaining it.


Well how can you expect someone to actually be able to pursue happiness if they're never forced to handle adversity or strive for a goal that seems daunting?  It's a disservice to anyone to not expose them to harsher things in life.  In my life, my happiest points have always been after I've triumphed through competition and difficulty.  It's not the reward of money or goods that fuels my happiness but knowing that I succeeded through my own work, effort, skills, and talent.  Lowering the bar just makes people aim lower and teaches them to be satisfied with less.  It makes for an indolent populace which is not a good thing.
 
2013-04-16 09:52:11 AM
Gulper Eel:
Virtuoso80: NY education sucks the big one. It may suck less than some other places, but dollar for dollar it's pretty pathetic and frustrating. I do the best I can with my niece to actually educate her, promote her reading on her own, and show her that math and history aren't nearly as boring as they seem in school, but my limited time with her can only do so much to compensate for crap teachers and teaching curricula.

Somewhat this.

NY is a real mixed bag. The amount paid in taxes doesn't have much of a relationship to the results, and a handful of lawsuit-happy parents and their advocates can run rings around the system if they go up against administrators who don't know the first thing about making sure the school's legal issues are squared away.

There are plenty of cases where parents wangle expensive private-school educations out of public school districts who figure that paying $40K/yr for Madame Snooty-face's Finishing School is cheaper than paying the costs of a settlement. Which sucks if you're a parent who actually does have a profoundly disabled child who needs bigtime services - you get lumped in with the lawyered-up asshats.


What bothers me is how much time is simply wasted. I ask my private students what they learned in school over the past YEAR of five-days-a-week classes, and they can barely tell me anything. What was memorized last year is forgotten. Pointless dioramas are made. Time is spent as if it were a free gift from the taxpayer. Great works of literature are turned into exercises in banality by reading comprehension worksheets. History lessons are made as dull as possible, and often are not even factually correct. (Read Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-Told-Everything/dp/1595583262/ ) Math is taught in the most uninteresting way possible (Read A Mathematician's Lament by Paul Lockhart http://www.maa.org/devlin/lockhartslament.pdf).

I'm still young enough to remember my schooling quite well. I learned a few things, but mostly I remember I learned to be bored, and to bullshiat. I learned what kind of bullshiat was expected of me, and pointless as it seemed, and I gave my teachers what they wanted. I was good in math, but it took a great English teacher with a 170 IQ who liked to go off on tangents to actually teach me what calculus actually was, instead of being shown how to blindly follow steps (he was the best HS teacher I ever had, and of course the administration hated him). I was a really good writer, and love reading, but never discovered that until my 20's when I figured it out for myself. According to English classes, however, I sucked because I could barely endure filling out those reading worksheets and didn't give a shiat what the predicate nominative was. In fact, I think almost all of my love of knowledge in different subjects was discovered is spite of my schooling, instead of because of it.

And then there's people like me now, who could help to fix this system, but can't stand to enter into the socialized mess that it is. Make it competitive. Give our best and brightest a reason to get into it, instead of making teaching the refuge for the bottom half of the college class to find Government job security. As I said in another post, I wonder if we'll just have to privatize the whole thing, and take the good with the bad of that, in order to start getting any results.
 
2013-04-16 09:57:03 AM
 
2013-04-16 10:02:25 AM

DubtodaIll: Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become successful when they're grown?


I think the point of intersection was sometime in the the mid 90s.
 
2013-04-16 10:07:39 AM

DubtodaIll: stonicus: orbister: DubtodaIll: Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become successful when they're grown?

What's wrong with "happiness" as a measure of success?  After all, it's "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and not "life, liberty and the pursuit of material possessions".

It just says pursuit of happiness, it says nothing about actually obtaining it.

Well how can you expect someone to actually be able to pursue happiness if they're never forced to handle adversity or strive for a goal that seems daunting?  It's a disservice to anyone to not expose them to harsher things in life.  In my life, my happiest points have always been after I've triumphed through competition and difficulty.  It's not the reward of money or goods that fuels my happiness but knowing that I succeeded through my own work, effort, skills, and talent.  Lowering the bar just makes people aim lower and teaches them to be satisfied with less.  It makes for an indolent populace which is not a good thing.


It's their option to pursue happiness if they wish to, it's not an obligation.  If they want to be lazy, then that is their option.
Also, and this may seem foreign to you,  what makes you happy may or may not make other people happy.
 
2013-04-16 10:11:43 AM

DubtodaIll: Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become attractive and successful when they're grown?


FTFY
 
2013-04-16 10:15:12 AM

stonicus: DubtodaIll: stonicus: orbister: DubtodaIll: Anyone know at what point children's feelings became more important than their ability to become successful when they're grown?

What's wrong with "happiness" as a measure of success?  After all, it's "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and not "life, liberty and the pursuit of material possessions".

It just says pursuit of happiness, it says nothing about actually obtaining it.

Well how can you expect someone to actually be able to pursue happiness if they're never forced to handle adversity or strive for a goal that seems daunting?  It's a disservice to anyone to not expose them to harsher things in life.  In my life, my happiest points have always been after I've triumphed through competition and difficulty.  It's not the reward of money or goods that fuels my happiness but knowing that I succeeded through my own work, effort, skills, and talent.  Lowering the bar just makes people aim lower and teaches them to be satisfied with less.  It makes for an indolent populace which is not a good thing.

It's their option to pursue happiness if they wish to, it's not an obligation.  If they want to be lazy, then that is their option.
Also, and this may seem foreign to you,  what makes you happy may or may not make other people happy.


Sure you've got the option as an individual to do whatever you like.  If you're setting up an educational system, it is better for society to push students in the direction of reaching goals, performing work with aptitude, and knowing as much as is possible to teach in the 12 years a student is in standard education.  Encountering incompetence causes stress.  Stress is a killer.  WHY DO YOU WANT COMPETENT PEOPLE TO DIE??
 
2013-04-16 10:23:46 AM
www.musicwithease.com

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - composing by age five, Royal Court appointed composer by 17.

These kids? Cursed with stupid parents
 
2013-04-16 10:31:33 AM
Virtuoso80:

What bothers me is how much time is simply wasted. I ask my private students what they learned in school over the past YEAR of five-days-a-week classes, and they can barely tell me anything. What was memorized last year is forgotten. Pointless dioramas are made.

Yes, but most teachers right now are complaining about not having autonomy and the ability to waste time on pointless dioramas because they truly believe that is the way to teach.  As you pointed out, it's not.  

Salt maps, dioramas and that kind of crap are activities to keep kids busy while 'teachers' wander the classroom supervising or, probably preferably, sit at their desk and read.

And when someone on the outside wants to call them on their effectiveness and not just hand out raises because teachers think they are somehow entitled to automatic raises without actually showing how they improve education, oh, holy hell.  They mobilize faster than a MASH unit.
 
2013-04-16 10:31:50 AM

gregory311: This is incorrect. Pearson has been hired to administer the tests for scoring purposes, but the questions and material in New York were created and implemented by the office of state assessment with the inclusion of classroom teachers and administrators and the Board of Co-operational Education Services.


Well that is almost hopeful.  At least they didn't go full Texas.

The NY method has experienced teachers gathering during the summer to make test questions based on the standards, these are then turned into tests. Pearson has a bunch of illiterates make questions that they hope address the standards.

However, administration and grading is a problem if Pearson does it.  The Texas school year goes like this.  August-March: Teach a full year of ELA, Beginning of April Test on ELA
August -Beginning of April  Teach a full year of other subjects, Test all other Subjects
May: Playtime until graduation.

Pearson: We'll have those grades back to you by November...guaranteed...
 
2013-04-16 10:35:01 AM
Virtuoso80:I sometimes wonder if the only path to innovation and improvement is to privatize the whole endeavor.

Virtuoso80: As I said in another post, I wonder if we'll just have to privatize the whole thing, and take the good with the bad of that, in order to start getting any results.

Stop saying that!

Say whatever you like. But your whole "best and brightest" schtick is bogus and circular. The language intones, but falls short of directly advocating: Pay to play.

Teaching is one part social work and not wholly incentivized by salary. You are either to young to know how educational policy has evolved since the 50s, or disingenously pushing an agenda. Teachers are paid at about the same level as nurses, and as policy goes, that is pretty fair. But ask nurses (and doctors) if the privatization of their field has been an improvement. Nurses, especially, are over-worked and stressed to the hilt.

Are you aware Hospital Corporation of America went bankrupt after its first IPO? Without further regulation guaranteeing investment, there it would have stayed. And those guarantees? The labor of human beings was relegated to levels of competition that create more problems with stress and quality of delivery.

But fark the parallels. NCLB was, too many forget, a comprehensive solution to a population problem. The schools built after WWII and the GI's that staffed them with GI Bill education, was known to have a limited, generational, shelf-life.  Un-regulated immigration (to keep wages low) flooded the social institutions in highly populated areas and this was known.

So a comprehensive solution, drafted by MBA's mostly, said:

Tests to Document "failure" + Charters + Voucher System + For Profit.

Well, the vouchers didn't sell too well. There is no for-profit endeavor making a profit (still functioning from initial grants) and the studies on Charters (after a decade) are about half are improvements, but half are not. Big surprise.

The privatization of schools is already underway, so calling for more of it really means busting up the teachers' unions.

But, here's why I respond to you. Privatizing social work? Not a lot of examples of it working so well. And the problem with privatization, such as its extensive use in prisons? Privatization is supposed to save money, but the tax base never decreases. The idea is sold that it is more efficient. If it were, why don't taxes go down.

Anyone who lives long enough knows taxes don't go down. They ever increase. Privatization arguments now rely on vague, emotional appeals like your post because no hard facts can be offered.

I don't have a problem paying taxes, even as they increase, but your youthful, likely presented ambiguity, is insulting.

Shut the Fark Up Boy
 
2013-04-16 10:46:35 AM

Clemkadidlefark: [www.musicwithease.com image 372x497]

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - composing by age five, Royal Court appointed composer by 17.

These kids? Cursed with stupid parents


As a music teacher, this brings up an important point to me. I'm all too aware of he reality of the music world, especially the classical music world. If you want your kid to have a shot at being a brilliant virtuoso, you're likely going to have to chain them to their instrument for most of their childhood (metaphorically of course). That's just the way it is. If you really want to have a chance, you need to take it very seriously, very early. I've got natural talent, and I've busted my ass, but I'll never be a piano competition winner, because I don't have that background.

It's the same with Olympic gymnasts, ballet dancers, and other high-achieving fields. It's a sacrifice. It's up to parents whether they want to take that path, but don't delude yourself into thinking you can have your cake and eat it too. Your kid cannot be 'whatever they want' when they grow up, because by the time they grow up, the window for many things will have long since passed. Personally, I think childhood 'happiness' is a bit overrated. Kids are naturally kids no matter what they do, and this is the best and most resilient time for someone to have to do that kind of work.
 
2013-04-16 10:59:03 AM
Virtuoso80 but don't delude yourself into thinking you can have your cake and eat it too. Your kid cannot be 'whatever they want' when they grow up, because by the time they grow up, the window for many things will have long since passed. Personally, I think childhood 'happiness' is a bit overrated. Kids are naturally kids no matter what they do, and this is the best and most resilient time for someone to have to do that kind of work.

Cake? Windows?


Your ability to read the minds of others...it is astounding! The code is like some kind of conservative-value-bot let loose on the tubez.
 
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